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Liza Long, who penned an essay pouring out her anguish over her son's mental illness after Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people in Newtown Conn., including 20 young children.
Liza Long’s son first went into the juvenile justice system at 11. He’s mentally ill, but the woman who wrote the viral Internet essay “I am Adam Lanza’s mother” told Congress the police are often the only authorities who can help deal with violent, mentally ill children.
Pat Milam repeatedly begged doctors in New Orleans to keep his psychotic and suicidal son hospitalized. Soon after they refused and released him in 2011, the young man killed himself while trying to set off a giant propane bomb in his bedroom, he told a Congressional hearing on mental health care held after the shootings of 20 young children and six adults last December in Newtown, Conn.
“We tell our daughters and our sons, ‘Oh, you are sick but we are not going to help you until you become dangerous.' Then when they become dangerous we blame and punish them,” Fairfax, Va. writer Pete Earley told the hearing on mental illness. “In that scenario, tell me who is crazy.”
Tuesday’s hearing of the House Energy and Commerce oversight subcommittee was carefully staged to show the anguish felt by parents of mentally ill children and young adults who struggle with police and health care providers to get treatment.
All three parents complained that doctors’ interpretations of HIPAA -- the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act -- prevented them from helping their children. Doctors, they said, feared sharing vital information for fear of violating privacy rules. And, they complained, too often they had no one to call but police when their children became violent.
“Parents like me are struggling physically, emotionally, and financially,” Long, a Boise, Idaho, mother of four told the hearing via video link. “The stigma for parents and children is real. The magnitude of this problem will only be recognized after tragedies like Newtown.”
She said her son “Michael” -- she uses a pseudonym to protect him -- has never been properly diagnosed with any one illness. When she told him she was testifying, he told her, "Tell them I’m not a bad kid. Tell them I want to be well,’” she said.
“Parents like me are living in fear. Will my child be bullied? Will my child be the bully? Will I be blamed for my child’s explosive behavior?” Long said. Schools need more money to pay for counselors and behavioral interventionists, Long said.
Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, a psychiatrist who founded the Treatment Advocacy Center, says mentally ill patients are far less likely to become violent if they get treated.
The approach is called assisted outpatient treatment, and he says he used it successfully while working in a psychiatric hospital in Washington, D.C.
“I would go to the court and say, ‘Your Honor, this individual has been to the hospital 19 times. He has no awareness of his illness,’” Torrey testified.
The law allowed Torrey to order such a patient to receive a once-monthly injection of medication to help him stay well -- something that is key with some mental illnesses that cause patients to fear medication, mistrust doctors and to be unable to understand that they are ill. Studies have shown this type of forced treatment can decrease homelessness, arrests and can help prevent the patients from becoming victims of crimes.
Torrey says 44 states have assisted outpatient treatment laws, which allow for forced treatment under certain circumstances, but they are not used consistently.
“The crisis we find ourselves in is not just a question of funding. Rather the current situation demands more intelligent targeting of available funds towards the most promising treatments,” subcommittee chairman Tim Murphy, a Pennsylvania Republican, told the hearing.
Earley says his son, who was 22 when he became ill, finally got treatment. He praised Virginia for tackling mental health after a mentally ill Virginia Tech student killed 32 people and wounded 17 in 2007. But he found it difficult. "Parents can’t do anything because of civil rights laws," he said.
“There was a time when I wished my son had not been born,” Earley, who wrote the book “Crazy”, told the hearing. “But today my son is doing great. He has a job, lives on his own, pays taxes. If he was sitting here today before you today you would not know that he has a mental illness,” Earley added.
“This is not a problem of us not knowing what to do. This is a problem of us not doing it. No father should ever be told, ‘Bring your son back after he tries to kill someone or tries to kill you.’"
Milam said he tried hard to get his son Matthew treated in a New Orleans hospital after he filled his bedroom with bomb-making materials, but his doctors and health insurance company insisted he was well enough to go home. Matthew had repeatedly threatened suicide and had tried at least twice, drinking bleach and slashing his own throat with a knife.
“I can’t tell you the words I used,” Milam said. “I was enraged they would let him out.” Matthew died at the age of 24, trying to set off the bomb in his bedroom, and investigators later said they found enough explosives in there to have leveled the house.
“We have 15 million children and teenagers who have a psychiatric disease or serious learning disorder in the U.S. today. Less than half get any help,” Torrey said.
Dr. Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, said there’s no coherent U.S. system for managing mental health needs. “We are often forced to respond in an acute way to what is a chronic problem,” he said.
People with diabetes get medications, medical care and counseling to help keep themselves well. Mental health patients need the same consistent approach, he said.
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Mr, Insel says a system is lacking. What are his plans to correct that?
The first step in fixing this problem is to do away with the ACLU. They consistently come to the defense of mentally ill people supporting their right to refuse treatment. These liberal do-gooders lose sight of the fact that without the medication these people may represent a danger to themselves and to others. They take the stand that until they have done something to hurt themselves or others the government has no right to force medication on them. The problem with this attitude is that it means that it is very likely that people are going to die and it is going to become a criminal matter before these people get help. Many of the mentally ill are not aware of their illness, particularly when they are not on their medication. Their needs to be a reliable legal framework to force those who are mentally ill to take their medication if they want to remain a free as a member of society. The alternative is what we have now where they wind up homeless, in prison, or dead before anyone does anything about it.
Well JD there is another problem. What happens when someone thinks you need help for a mental health problem and forces you to take medication?
For once, I'm actually agreeing with JS. Sometimes I can actually, literally feel the very "black flames" of anger trying to take hold of my mind and body. The sensation is like someone placed a warm sleeve around your wishbone, and then squeezed that sleeve, making your body feel as if you were suffocating. It's quite painful to deal with - maybe not in the sense of losing a limb, being sliced open, someone ripping your teeth out, or getting blasted by an IED - however, I'd be lying if I said it didn't get unbearable sometimes.
It makes me want to destroy people sometimes - brutally, bloodily, and almost in a way that seems.... savage. Yet I am able to realize this (I'm probably one of the few that can do this whilst it's going on), and thus am able to suppress this desire.
However, even I have limits. My mind can only resist so long before I have to start using physical endurance to tough it out (and I really wish I didn't have to go that far).
I'm tired of seeing people hurt. I'm tired of hearing the screams and wails of pain, whether they be my own or someone else's. I want to get help, but the medical consortium around me feels that I'm doing well enough to not need it (I've also had to switch doctors because one incorrectly misjudged me on a mental illness). And even then, the quality of help I get is rather poor to begin with (since I'm on Medicare), I have few options to get help from (due to my provider and the fact that I'm incapable of driving anywhere), and I can't even afford the next tier up (going from zero-tier public insurance to low-tier private insurance).
It's destroying all the possibilities in my life - I can't get a job without worry about: A)lashing out at my boss because I was too weak to control my own anger, B)am too intimidated and frightened to seek employment due to the stigmas surrounding the mentally ill, and C)have difficulty in social settings because of how my anger flares up in periods of rejection.
I do try, y'know - but people always say "You're just making @!$%# up", or "I went through the same thing you did". I mean, what the hell do they know?! They ain't me!
Much of the current ways of treating people with a mental illness were born out of the sins of the past. Far too often, people were locked up against their will and given a "mental illness" designation to either get them out of the way or to punish someone for something they did. So the government went completely in the opposite direction and came up with the current system (you have to exhibit the destructive behavior before anything can be done). Congress needs to strike a balance between the two extremes.
The problem is, the mentally ill who cannot think properly MUST be forced to take their medications otherwise they quit taking them. Mental illness is not something that is cured with a round or two of meds, this is something that is a lifelong fight. We, as family of the mentally ill, must be allowed to take care of our children, husbands, wives. We must be allowed to forcefully ensure they take their medications that can save their lives, our lives and all too often the lives of strangers in a crowded school, or theater. Until we recognize, that without help, there are some who cannot properly take care of themselves and need help. Until we recognize that an assisted living facility may be the best option for some, our society as a whole is doomed to continue repeating our mistakes. No amount of gun control will ever stop the unmedicated psychotic from doing damage to those in their path of insanity.
Widget....
I don't think forcing people (mentally ill or not) to take meds is the approprate response here as many of the mentally ill do not recognize they have a problem, and most (families too) have no idea how to correct it as they live it 24/7. As the psychiatrist in the article mentioned, he likes to have them take the meds to they can REALIZE they have a problem. His program sounds successful in that it works to reduce the number of violent outcomes. I'm sure those living with and around those with mental illness is like a living hell. There's NOwhere to run! It's interesting how many choose suicide....
Crimson, thank you for your testimony - others should read this. Please give this man the help he needs. No rational person wakes up saying, "gee, I think I'm going to go shoot a bunch of people." No matter how mad I get at others, that thought just won't happen. It's not enough to offer funding for mental illness, there needs to be some enforcement mechanism. My brother is physically handicapped and his health is declining. I've been in touch with a social worker who is trying to get some home health services for him, but acknowledges that in the next few years he's going to have to go to a nursing home, either that or he'll just die in his apartment. This CAN be court-ordered; why then can't we court-order treatment for someone who's mentally ill??? And HIPPA needs to be amended to share information on the mentally ill. Twenty children would still be alive if Adam Lanza had been institutionalized; and NONE of the current gun control proposals would have stopped him, or James Holmes either.
The problem is, many never realize they have a problem. They are paranoid that the meds are killing them, and that Psychiatrists are implanting things into them. Unless you have lived it, you cannot understand the level of paranoia. When they take the meds, they feel well. Then they quit taking the meds, and don't feel well.
1 in 4 americans suffer from some kind of mental illeness and that includes paranoid gun nuts...
It is insane to let the mentally ill without care.
Shame on you, americans ! what you people need is UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE !
You spend 400 000 dollars buying ONE BOMB because this is what a bomb cost !!! This is a true waste of money !!
I have always liked the idea of 'group homes' - 4 or 5 residents who monitor, support and watch out for each other. Have a trained 'house manager' to organize daily activities and 'remind' residents to take their meds-let the residents make up and enforce the 'house' rules (peer pressure helps). The residents have a roof over their heads, food (which they shop for and cook) and a reminder to take meds on a regular basis- the money they receive from disability helps pay for rent, food etc........
fool2008: Ignorance is bliss, eh? Universal health care has nothing to do with it. Do your really think that the rest of the world that has it is that much more stable? The fact is that a lot of mental illness is a different breed of cat. As widget points out, it is a vicious cycle of treatment and then the patient deciding that they are fine so they stop taking their medicine. There are a lot of factors in play. You see, it's not like a physical illness or injury. With those, it's fairly easy, you diagnose and treat it. Over simplified, but it works. But, with mental illness, there's more too it. Even if you obtain a successful diagnosis, you generally need the patient's cooperation to treat it. If they don't take their medicine then they don't get well. And, a lot don't take their medicine. Actually, a lot of the physical illnesses also have patients who don't take their medicine. That's why we have so many people with diabetes. When caught early on, it can frequently be treated and even reversed. The thing is, that patient has to make the necessary changes and follow the plan. Some do, but a lot don't. And it has nothing to do with universal health coverage! And we don' lock people up for failing to take their meds.
Mental illness has the same problems, except that a higher percentage (my guess) don't take their meds, at least on a long term basis. That's why they are in and out of treatment. The question is, at what point do you essentially lock them up. Perhaps, in the rest of the world the answer is simple: whenever you want. But, we have something called freedom in the US and a thing called the Constitution. Fortunately, with what's left of the Constitution, most people can't just be locked up because someone else said they should be. Yes, we do have laws for civil commitments and emergency commitments, but they don't offer a "fix" or a "cure." Many spend their entire lives going in and out of the system. Sure, it'd be "easier" from the standpoint of and "orderly" society, to just lock them up. But, then again, Hitler, Stalin, Chavez, Castro, Mao and others have very orderly societies.
@Widget & Witch - There are exceptions in the case of those who do not take their meds. They are exceptionally rare, yes, but they exist - and I happen to be one of them. With the right amount of dedication, these specific individuals can brave it out through sheer force of will.
For me, it's kinda necessary, as the meds chop my stamina in half should I take them. It's a choice that I wish I didn't have to make: Do I take my meds and spend half of my life in constant slumber, or do I keep my energy whilst having to face the very real danger of my anger's wrath harming someone or myself?
If you have the will to resist the "black flames" that threaten to eat your very soul alive, then you become an inspiration to those who may be struggling just as it is. Of course, not every one is born that way - and it just so happens that along the way, I picked up a heightened sense of guilt for the consequences of my actions, be they good or bad.
In closing, I want to end with this: "Shadow void of malice, light bereft of purity. Not all that seems ferocious is a threat, neither is the gentle smile of innocence truly the gift of the gods."
Never, EVER judge a book by its cover. If they feel sorry for their actions, then there is hope - harness that remorse and help them fight that anger inside them.
(This whole thing sounds like a friggin' 21st century anime plot. Sheesh, how cliche. And I pride myself on being the opposite)
If we had a proper national health care system, the mentally ill could receive the care they need, and we all would be safer. But no, or we have to spend our resources on the military. And heaven forbid the wealthy should pay their fair share to help care for their fellow citizens health care!
The mentally ill received treatment and there were mental health hospitals until former president Ronald Reagan enacted the Patients right Act.That act means that mentally ill people can refuse treatment.The mental healthcare system wasn't broken until the 1980's when this enactment took place.It was done to save money.It in actuality has cost the taxpayers money with the revolving door of the mentally ill going from the streets to group homes and back on the streets.Social Security and Medicare is issued to the mentally ill because of them not being able to work.Ones that take their meds from the beginning have a success rate but it's a very small amount of the mentally ill who do this.Most go on and off the meds to the point that they can not function in the real world.I have a schizophrenic sister and know of what I speak.We're lucky that she is in a nursing home although the doctors have to be called by us from time to time to change or adjust her medicine as none of the meds work forever.
To be fair, even the military has experienced dramatic cuts over the past twenty years.
I was in from '92-'95 and 2000-2004, and I saw 2/3rds of my former commands shut down because of BRAC (Base Realignment and Closure) just within that five-year gap in my service time. That means that anyone in the surrounding communities to the military commands/bases that were closed also suffered monetary losses due to jobs disappearing, a decreased demand in off-base housing, fewer customers at restaurants and stores, etc.
There is now a tremendous push for those in-service to make advancement within a certain number of years, or you get an administrative discharge. What used to be the standard for E-6 personnel is now demanded at the E-4 level, and sometimes even when that's met, that isn't enough. My rating the second time around, Photographer's Mate (which no longer exists--it has been merged with Journalist and Lithographer to create a new category: Media Specialist), demanded that all people wishing to advance score at least 90% or above in order to have a shot at it. Being prior service, I actually only had about four chances to make advancement or I'd have gone out on an admin discharge.
There is a lot of pressure for people to make body fat or weight standards (which is absurd when you stop to consider that some people of Samoan heritage can never meet the weight of a slim Asian, or those who are extremely muscular are "obese" because their muscular bodies are too wide--genetics and overall health are pushed aside in favor of an arbitrary BMI setting). If you fail the standards three times, be it weight, push-ups, sit-ups and/or the run, you get a medical discharge.
The military is now retiring people at fifteen years instead of twenty, which means they're pushing more people into the job market, and they're putting them out there at more advanced ages than before. And we all know the odds of getting a job once you've gone over the age of 40. Those without sufficient savings have no choice but to work again. (Even if you have saved up a lot, your funds can be drained due to illness, accident, injury, death of a parent or child, etc.--it's not all drug use and laziness that sucks money out of people's bank accounts, folks!)
So true! The first way the military cuts troops is with the "weight control" program! During the height of the dual wars, you could see a lot of those troops on TV (including some senior officers) who I know darn well could NOT have passed. But apparently they were good enough troops to go to war and do their jobs! But I can guarantee they will be the FIRST on the chopping block with the draw down.
The Republicans and wealthy would rather see the mentally ill out on the street with a firearm.
The issue of mental illness in minors is very complex and perhaps this is not the case upon which we should base our policies:
She is exactly right.
Thank heavens people are finally listening because I've been saying this for years now! Yes when these tragedies happen we can talk about gun control and crappy parenting all the live long day, and those are definitely factors and discussions worth having, but that's not going to tackle this big of a far reaching problem, which is lack of mental health treatment in this country. We need to bring back mental hospitals, not the draconian one's of the Victorian novel era, but one's that can handle potentially violent and extremely mentally ill people that just cannot be cured. If we rely on prisons, suicide, and mass casualties to solve this problem for us, as we have currently been doing, we're just going to see more and more stories like Newtown. I also realize there is a fine line between committing only mildly mentally ill patients or people that have been falsely diagnosed, but that's also something that can be helped with better funded and more outpatient programs as well. I'd rather see more money going into that then failed and ineffective legislation and acting shocked when another person who everyone knew was absolutely nuts for years goes on a killing spree.
Agreed. The gun is only the tool, and frankly it could be anything. To stop the problem, these people need help, and we must get to the cause of the problem, and not simply having them look for another tool.
I live in the SF Bay Area and in certain communities, the mentally ill are allowed to run the streets at will. It's easier to get indicted for murder than get help for the mentally ill or make them accept treatment. It's really scary.
You're telling me Missy! I work in downtown SF and let me tell you, until you've worked or lived here you ain't seen nothing yet. I think we should send everyone on this panel to the financial district and have them walk up to the TL and see what they have to say then
You said it! Berkeley, too. There are tons of vacant store fronts, the rents are too expensive, and the streets are in desperate need of repair and clean-up. The city doesn't have the tax base it needs and everybody who can, shops, gets their hair done etc. every place except Berkeley. There's virtually nowhere to shop for clothes etc.! When the city council has been confronted with the problem of the mentally ill/street people, they've gotten very angry and accused people of being "elitist". People's Park is a garbage dump, literally. Many of the "homeless" in Berkeley are mentally ill and in desperate need of places where they can be housed and properly treated. Unfortunately, Berkeley doesn't seem to "get it".
Missy,Allowed to run the streets?Where would you have them go?They are mentally ill and there aren't too many hospitals left in California to treat them.Most people fight having group homes in their neighborhood.Heaven forbid that people who live in the SF Bay area have mentally ill family members.Ronald Reagan's Patience Rights Act says that the mentally ill cannot be forced into treatment.That act was done to save money and you are seeing those results.The mentally ill are everywhere in the U.S. and usually end up in big cities because that is where the homeless shelters,free clinics and food kitchens are.Your attitude of not in my city is a big problem.What have you done to advocate for the mentally ill so that they are in a safe environment with proper mental healthcare treatment,shelter,food and clothing?
JACL: Well, you can't expect people to care if our fellow Americans are receiving adequate shelter, food and clothing, now, can you? That'd be SOCIALISM... having society take care of its citizens' material needs like that...
I and my friends have been followed into stores etc. and have had people walk up to our table if we're out eating, begging for money. When the owners have tried to intervene, the mentally ill have gotten very angry and vocal. Some store owners have had to close their businesses because people stayed away, feeling that they were being harassed by the mentally ill people on the street. Some of the street people blocked a lot of doorways so customers couldn't walk in the stores. I've also witnessed mentally ill street people being disruptive in church, too. Yes, I know many of these people are sick and I am appalled that the "Patients Rights Act" closed the hospitals and forced these people on the streets. I've advocated for the mentally ill and will continue to do so. But what about the rights and concerns and safety of everybody else? I invite you to come to San Francisco and Berkeley and take a walk down the streets. It's beyond scary, especially if you've been followed and had a mentally ill street person scream at you, all the way. It's not an issue of "not in my city". As I stated in my previous post, at the City Council meetings in Berkeley, anybody who has brought the issue up of the mentally ill and homeless, is called an elitist and that some people are really only concerned about not "offending the middle class". Berkeley spends about $10 million dollars a year on outreach services! There is a coalition in Berkeley that has worked very hard to provide overnight rooms/shelters for people. Sadly, you can't make the mentally ill take advantage of the shelters and services that are available. You can't make people take their medication or go to the doctor. I believe in treatment and I'll vote for whatever measure is on put on the ballot that will provide treatment and care. I'm a home owner and if we need to have a parcel tax, so be it. But again, let's make sure that our compassion extends to everybody, not just the mentally ill.
Missy,I am in no way saying that it isn't a problem.Been to San Francisco a few time and love it. I've never had anyone approach me for anything in San Francisco..The mentally ill do not frighten me as I have a sister who suffers from schizophrenia and a nephew who is bi-polar.I worked with people at SBC who were bi-polar that would go off their meds,go out on disability,get back on their meds and get back to work.One of my commercial accounts works with the drug,alcohol addicted and the mentally ill.They are in a downtown area.I'm still not afraid of the mentally ill or the homeless.Guess I don't scare easy and am not bothered that everybody is not a one size fits all.San Francisco has their own health insurance and many services for the mentally ill so I'm surprised that this is a large problem there.Those outreach services cost more than what it cost before the Patients Rights Act.We have the solutions but our government has ignored it too long.I'm also a homeowner and am not about to pay another tax dollar.Our government has the money but they prefer to send it to other countries.Anyway,call your mayor and council people and see if they can get some help for these people.Wishing them to go away to another city is not a permanent solution.
Stand up - joke off...
I think you''re confusing socialism with moralism and consciousness. Mental illness IS a medical illness. We don't call putting a stent in someone's coronary artery after they've suffered a heart attack socialism....do we? Mental and physical illness are ONE IN THE SAME. Ignorant people think those with mental illness are just weak and unable to 'pull themselves out of it'. It goes way beyond that! Chemical imbalances, malformation, and other genetic malfunctions are the root of many mental illnesses. Medications combined with other therapies and counseling are needed to treat these problems. Too bad for the ignoramuses out there, mental illness isn't as easy to treat as high blood pressure with just taking a pill. However, mental illness doesn't just affect the individual...it affects their family, friends, and because of violent symptoms, it becomes societies problem. Newton, Virginia Tech, and Columbine are just a few off the top examples of how/why our entire nation gets a F for treating mental illness.
JACL, usually I agree with your views, but as someone who lives in the same city as Missy, she's right. The problem of the mentally ill is astronomical here in SF and Berkeley. We have a lot of city services for them, more than the average city, but a lot of them refuse treatment, and again, blame Reagan for that but too late now. It's not a matter of just being safe, although a few people have been attacked by the homeless this year, but also the basic concept of your rights end where mine begin. Yes, they have a right to be crazy on the street, but I believe I also have a right to walk down that street without getting harassed. The next time you're in San Francisco if you want to see a real slice of life, I would advise you to take a cab through the Tenderloin or hang out at the embarcadero. Although don't go out at night or look like a tourist. In addition to watching people openly defecating on the street in the middle of the afternoon, if they are in a good mood, lots of people that are smoking crack in the doorways beginning at 5pm will offer to share with you. This place has turned into a mess. Also, it's EXACTLY as Missy said. Good lucky trying to go to a Berkeley or Oakland city council and talk any sense into people. They literally start to riot and call you far worse than an elitist, if they even let anyone speak.
.
Simply we do not have resources and know how with what society we have created to have what we want
Will America EVER join the rest of the developed world and provide universal healthcare to its citizens?
Healthcare is not the issue being able to deal with being frail human being is... we first have to remove the stigma of mental illness....
Even with universal healthcare unless you are going to force the mentally ill to be treated it won't help. At some point we have to say if they do not stay on a treatment they are somewhere secure if they are iolent.
You seem to forget the mentally ill have constitutionally rights that YOU can not be abridge without cause... or do you propose that we abolish the constitution and become a communist country???? Just saying....
The cause wold be the same as any other violent offender. Mental illness when it is treated allows most people to live a normal life without hurting or killing anyone. If they choose not to be treated then the rest of society needs to be protected from them. Thier constitutional rights do not come before the rights of society to be safe.
Then we must be prepared to pay for that treatment. And nobody wants to. As a former mental health professional, I've seen this first-hand. The reason I left the field was because in state-operated mental health facilities, treatment consisted solely of medicating the patients into a constant stupor.
The joke where I worked was that every patient required a treatment plan. And the plan was the same for each: thorazine, stelazine, and artane to combat the side effects of the thorazine and stelazine, QID.
Exactly. My daughter is struggling in school and with social skills. I know that she has a learning disorder beyond just ADD. I can get no help in treating her. The schools refuse to work with me or her. They will not refer her to the school psychologist, although they are fine with holding her back a grade. When I took her to a psychologist for testing the answer was basically, "Yup. Something's not right there, but I have no clue." There is no help for parents who don't have cookie cutter children.
The good news is that we have finally discovered the gene that makes people evil. We can start weeding that out of the population right now if we work together.
You mean like the eugenic movement of the 1930s... and Hitler??? I do not think so....
Nope, I mean a real live actual gene that can be tested for.
R738279.
Exactly. Yes.
And what give you the right to force someone to be tested to force them to have an abortion like CHINA??? Are you willing to abolish the constitution??? What if the test is a false positive due to an unknown side reaction... testing is not perfect and never will be.... are you willing to be wrong??? Just saying....
Testing today is nearly perfect, and especially if we are looking for the presence of one particular gene. Yes we should start testing for it and abort the fetuses that test positive. Society as a whole would benefit.
you are clown:
"...the gene that makes people evil"?
Whoa! I would suggest to you that the issue is not as simple as you indicate.
As for 'weeding' out these "evil" people, how do you propose to do that? Shall we remand them to mental institutions?...perhaps even before they have committed any evil? Shall we force them to take medications which will counteract their "evil" gene? Shall we execute people who don't have the proper genes?
As R-738279 indicates, perhaps you should look up and read about the eugenics movements of the late 19th and early-mid 20th centuries. I suspect that you would be shocked at the level of "evil" brought about by those who advocated exactly the type of solution that you have proposed.
I know all about the eugenics movement. That was pure racial ignorance and had no basis whatsoever in science. The gene has been identified, even this news station reported it. It would be unethical to kill or incarcerate anybody who may be a carrier and is already living, but testing for the condition before the fetus is born would allow us to abort these fetuses before they become alive. This gene could be weeded out completely within one generation.
Calling it an "evil" gene is not my original idea, but if we're going to get this done we're gong to have to demonise it a little. nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/27/17121643-mental-illnesses-share-common-dna-roots-study-finds?last=1362418126&threadId=3675479&sp=0&pc=25#last_1
Mental illness is a problem that has been since the beginning of time. The problem is if someone wants to kill they will find a way. Be it a rock, a rope, a knife, drugs, a gun, poison, fire, or bare hands it matter not... you my stay a rock or rope can kill only one... but poison, fire, knifes, or guns can kill many.
I have no idea what the solution is other than protecting ourselves, because the police cannot.... too few too fare away... too busy.... We have to be prepared to defend ourselves. But taking away our knifes, ropes, chemical that make our life possible or guns will not stop it. Only we can!
Yup
The gun manufacturers Kool-Aid. Please let all the nuts have guns, don't restrict the guns at all, then the sane people will decide they need to buy guns to protect them from the guns already out there. They make money coming and going. Smart business, good for profits, bad for the country.
I did not say that. I said that control articles that can be used to kill are both useful and necessary to everyday life. You can not control inanimate object to control crime. I was working in Scotchland a few years back... all the guns are locked up at the police station... if someone breaks into you house you are required to run away at all cost. There was a full page ad in the Aberdeen newspaper to ban knifes because that is what criminals are using to commit crimes.... you can not stop a criminal unless they are locked up or dead because they will find a way to take what they want, when they want.... just saying....
if your kid has a mental health issue, then look in the mirror,, you probably should have had an abortion,, otherwise you cost the rest of us,,,,
You blame pregnant women for not being psychic and able to tell if their babies will turn out to have mental problems?
why not,, they think they know every phuckin thing else,,,,
So, what planet can I ship you to since Earth is for humanity ? I'd be happy to book your flight to go along with all the nazi's.
Humanity ??,, on this planet ??,, I wish you could ship me off this rock of 7 billion A-holes,, no thanks to procreating freaks like right to lifers,,,,
Hey angry Sammy Rock. Sorry you were booted from American Idol and I wish I had Talent, but those are the breaks. Maybe you can get some anger management and possibly some drugs to edge out your personality. If not...well you know.
yeah you're right,, why couldn't I be like Honey Boo Boo, or some other intellectually popular low budget television personality,, I mean, shucks,, it ain't fair for all those groovy Hollywood types, and political figures that dictate my life to have all the fun in the world,, maybe if I write one of them a fan letter they might be my friend, and that would sure cheer me up,, yeah,, that's the ticket,, maybe even then, I could be just like them, and then the whole world would be full of sunshine and lollipops,, who knows,, maybe I could be just like you,,,,
"Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, a psychiatrist who founded the Treatment Advocacy Center, says mentally ill patients are far less likely to become violent if they get treated."
No s--t Dick Tracy. I get such a superiority complex , not from being so smart, but from listening to these "experts" spouting out common sense !
I believe that, the problem is that when a person with mental illness turns 18 no one can force him or her to take their meds short of them being a danger to themselves or other and then only a court can so order.... What I have seem of our medical and legal system both are ill equipped to deal with this reality....
And these are the issues, just some of them, why most people with mental health challenges live in poverty. In order to get stable, reliable and decent care you have to be, and your parent or other care giver has to give up their financial futures just to ensure you get your medication if needed, housing, etc. Taking care of a mentally ill child is a full time on call job all by itself.
One of the reasons there has to be a mental health courts is because forced treatment can be just as much used to abuse people as help them. You can't convict people simply because they might do something, irregardless of mental health. What would be more correct to say is that the health care industry is ignoring mental health needs of it's patients early on. Mental health issues impact the entire family, not just the person who's ill.
HIPPA law is one of the worst things to ever happen to health care period. As someone who was in a real position for an unrelated reason to need legal records protection the HIPPA law would have done no good whatsoever since real criminals neither care nor do they go by a HIPPA law policy. It certainly did nothing for the doctor who traveled from one office to another when they stole all of his patients files out of his car.
The schools should not have any involvement with mental health care beyond special education services. They are not mental health facilities. If your child has needs that are so severe you keep them at home and work out a homeschool program until they are ready to go to school. Yes, they do need more counselors, but school counselors are usually not Ph.D.'s in psychology.
The best thing is to educate parents on treatment, treatment plans and advocacy, resources available, and who to call for what. I can remember going to a mental health seminar related to my kids needs. Out of the over 100 people there I was the only parent participating as a parent and not a healthcare professional. They also need more specialized mobile mental health crisis units.
Part of the problem is also housing discrimination. What should be illegal is telling someone they can't live in one neighborhood or another simply because the neighbors don't want to look at it.
It's a whole lot more complicated that just forcing care on people. It's making personal sacrifices for your children. I'm not suggesting that the vast majority of parents don't care for their children's needs, but the number of parents who should have been at home caring for their children and weren't that I've run across was very eye opening, especially with teenagers.
Luci,Great post comments.I know of a California state funded program that receives donations and is a non profit.They have a mobile unit that goes out to the rural areas in the central Valley of California.They have a psych nurse on board,social workers at their office and a psychiatrist that can prescribe medication.They are a Mennonite based organization called Kingsview.Every community should be so lucky to have them be of service.You are right on target about the HIPPA laws doing more harm than good. My sister is mentally ill and it takes an entire family.It's been exhausting but she is not out on the streets.She was diagnosed in her late 20's and is approaching the age of 51.She'd be homeless and babbling in the streets if not for the advocating done by our mother and financial help from the entire family.
In the real world where most of us live, we can not homeschool our children because we need to go to work in order to house and feed them. I'm very happy that you had the wherewithal to attend conferences and such to help your child. I'm glad your child was able to get the help necessary from you. Not all parents are capable of doing that.
We need to pump up mental health services in every state
Congress knows whats wrong, they are just too lazy to fix it. They won't do anything that might step on someones toes, except gun owners.
Every day, the police release people like this with mental problems because they can't legally hold them.
The Aurora theater shooter was diagnosed as dangerous, by his therapist. She even called the police. But, she backed down on having him put in protective custody, partly because of the HIPAA law.
I checked the Bble. Jesus does not have answer.
You seem to forget the mentally ill have constitutionally rights that YOU can not be abridge without cause... or do you propose that we abolish the constitution and become a communist country???? Just saying....
R-738279, please stop copying and pasting your grammatically incorrect statement. "You cannot be abridge"? Really? Do you mean, "that you cannot abridge" or do you mean, "that cannot be abridged"? Since when do people have "constitutionally rights"? We all have Constitutional rights. You may be "just saying" but you are just saying it so poorly that your point is not coherent.
Yep, you are right, when I write fast my grammar does suffer, but YOU are not addressed the issue. People have constitutional rights that you and your liberal buddies can not take away because they are mentally ill. You are not recognizing that other governments have systemically abused political opponents by saying they are mentally ill and sending them to a "hospital". Please study the history of the NAZI and the COMMUNISTS. They have murdered millions. Only our Constitution, our Bill of Rights and our rule of law protect you, me and people who are ill from "do-gooders" who think they are smarter and know better than the rest of us.
The issue that remains is once a person is 18 only a court can force a mentally ill person to seek treatment by committing then to treatment. The problem is once their symptoms subside, they are released. They feel better... now they do not take their meds, the illness returns, and the cycle starts over again....
This is what you are not addressing madam by committing on my grammar and not addressing the complex issues of being human and having rights that you can not abridge. We the people of the United State of American have CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT even if I do not write with the style of Jefferson and you can take them away....
OBY:
abridge
transitive verb \ə-ˈbrij\
abridgedabridg·ing
Definition of ABRIDGE
a: archaic: deprive
b: to reduce in scope : diminish <attempts to abridge the right of free speech>
Just saying....
R-738279
So what's your solution to the problem? As an ex-mental health professional I'm interested.
Just saying...
I wish I had one... We have a moral delimina: is it better to deney a segment's their constatutional righs hoping to prevent deaths or do we uphold that segment's constatutional rights and take the risk that some people may die. Then as you must be aware who will bare the cost and what will be the anual cost. What will be the return on the investment?
I worked my way through college working in a hospital psychiatric unit. We had people from all walks of life, with all kinds of issues. That was in the 70's and parents, police, family...could check a patient in for evaluation, if necessary. I personally saw it help hundreds of people that could have hurt themselves or someone else...even some of my friends. Now, insurance companies screen for days before refusing admission or treatment, hospitals don't have these vital units, and with HIPPA, parents cannot help their mentally ill children over 13 because they are not privvy to the information from the doctors or therapists. It is wrong and needs to be changed...or we can simply keep having massacres.
JB,I agree with your comments.My mother is my sister conservator yet she is not privy to her medical records.My sister is in a nursing home(there was no place else to take her)and has been for the last 20 years.All my mother can do is call the doctor and tell him that she is hearing voices or acting strangely so that they will change or up her meds.The doctors are supposed to be checking on her weekly,they are billing Medicare but most don't give a whit.The HIPPA and Patients Rights Act have created a nightmare for the mentally ill and their families.
JB and JACL, thanks for your comments. The law you are referring to is HIPAA, though...
Tell this to all the gun banning fanatics. Then tell the Fanatic can't wait for his shot at The White House Dictator Andrew Cuomo who singlehandedly made every legal gun owner in New York State a criminal. Any person with an ounce of common sense knows a mentally disturbed person will use any means available to create mayhem.
No medical issue or cure will ever get resolved until we zip up the politicians pockets from pharmaceutical stocks. Politicians should be barred from owning stocks in pharmaceuticals and oil. Pharmaceuticals are making tons of dough, hand over fist, with mental illness and cancer meds. No cure will ever be found, nor will the government care, as long as they profit. If an issue doesn't affect a politician personally nothing will ever be done about said issue.
There is mental illness that says we can have perfect society. That illness in Our psych country as a whole.
For once no society can have resources to treat as many people as we can classify as mentally ill. Because they are in millions. Treatment of mental illness is not exact science like lots of medical problems.
The problems are compounded because we do not have good family structure. Every one wants their kids our of house fast. The relationship with uncles, aunts , brother, grand parents, brothers sisters goes with that. If there is a divorce then that compounds problems. The mother will not have terminally ill son with AIDS stay with her in his last months. I have seen this.
Most parents will say it is not their responsibility. I say if you make a baby, it is your responsibility. Do not look at society. Society cannot do it. I have come to believe every one should not have children. If structure and capacity not there for child to be raised to normal citizen, people should not have children and pregnancy need to be terminated.
In a family wiht 3-4 genrations living togather, you have a flexibility. But world has changed. One or both parents working taking care of even one children is a problem. We have a created society and we do not have sturcture that is workable with that society. We are dreaming old time value in a different kind of times.
We can do marriage without license but not the children without license. And if we want to have children anuway, take the problems comes with that. The probability distribution is not going to change because you wish it so.
The problem with this issue has always been the rights of patients, versus the rights of society and everyone's safety. Including the patients safety. I think what's needed is an appeal process for anyone who wishes to resist "treatment". Which is the heart of the issue regarding treating mentally ill people, many of whom don't believe they are ill. Parents should have more than the judicial system as a way to control their ill children.
Social spending is simply a reality, and is actually the cheapest option in the end anyway. The negative costs that result from doing nothing, are far more expensive. Ounce of prevention..
Stay armed and stay thirsty my friends.
Your thirst for justice will not be safe with the US government.
Or you local police.
Amen
Universal Background Checks will cure it all, Until the next one. Then it's registration, Until the Next One. Then it's Confiscation, Until the Next One. Then we go through the throws of following in Great Britain's Footsteps, Next is Air Guns, Until the Next One. Then Knives, Until the Next One. You Can't Legislate Away Crazy, It Needs to Be Diagnosed and Treated. The Real Danger in getting there is the Loss of Freedoms on the Way. Is this a Government You Can Trust? Sleep Well as they plot and scheme 24/7
Hey:
Use it or lose it. People are not using their guns at all. With 600 million guns only few are killed. If all are killed then we will not have any probllem and guns will be happy.
Universal Background Checks on all liberals.... just saying
Liberals put insane people and criminals back on the street. You elect a liberal, a friend probably will die.
Oh the poor little thing he only stabbed three people, give him two asprin and he will be alright in the morning to go home.
Hey, it was that noted liberal Ronald Reagan who put the mentally ill on the street because it saved money.
How has that worked out?
I work in the medical field, and I will tell you that it is easier to find Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth fairy all together than it is to find a mental hospital bed for a patient who needs one. If you do find one, the patient is let go after 3 or 4 days. It was a nice idea to get people out of the old "insane asylums" where people were locked away and forgotten. But the truth is, some people are simply not capable of living on their own and taking care of themselves. Some mentally ill people cannot even recognize that they are ill. There needs to be a place where they can be taken care of, medicated as needed (even if they don't want to be) and kept safe.
Michele,Great comments.Some hospitals in L.A. and recently in Nevada have been dumping patients on the street literally.It is disgraceful and unacceptable to treat the mentally ill this way.Finding a bed is next to impossible as is a place to house the mentally ill.
This has been happening all over the country. The reason is because when medicaid was cut mental health is where it was cut. Here in Kentucky it was cut by a whopping 47%. There are alota patients that are coverd by medicaid but cannot get treatment because treatment is no longer availeble. And, have you ever tried to get an appointment with a psychiatrist? Its easier to get an appointment with the eye doctor. It will take weeks to get in unless you are suicidal. Private insurance will cover maybe 6 visits a year. so forget any kind of therapy. Since this is not considered life threatning it does not get the attention it deserves. We had a senator shot and the knee jerk response it to ban guns. That will do nothing because the mentally ill people that are capable of these acts go untreated because of budget cuts. I would really like to know what happens to the money that comes from all these budget cuts. where does it go? Every year that goes by I keep hearing about more and more budget cuts here and there and everywhere. Yet the debt is still high. Its been high will always be high. Washington will always overspend. That will never change. I just wish that the money that is overspent will not affect medicaid and medicare or cost someone thier job. Why cant we cut some of these ridiculous grants made to universities and some of the money going to forgien countries. Egypt did not need any of our money and the common man there will never see it.
it isn't only because of Medicaid. My daughter has really good private insurance and finding her a bed when she needs it is next to impossible. the last time we had to hospitalize her we had to drive 3 hours to the hospital that had a bed.
Defining what mental illness is, when it needs to be treated, and who can help are all questions that need better understanding. I'm thankful that I have three relatively happy productive children who are now all adults, but it wasn't always that way. We experienced mental health professionals that refused to help when we needed it and mental health professionals that offered the wrong kind of help, also when they were needed. Counselors and therapists who didn't listen when they needed to, but made sure the bill was never late. Parents are always the first and most critical link in identifying problems with their children, but getting help when it's needed it critical as well.