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Subscribe to RSSDr. William Begg, a physician who worked in the emergency room the day of the Newtown shooting, gets emotional as he speaks in front of a Senate panel on gun violence, stating "People say that the overall number of assault weapon deaths is small. Please don't tell that to the people of Tucson or Aurora or Columbine or Virginia Tech, and don't tell that to the people in Newtown. This is a tipping point and this is a public health issue."
Dr. William Begg wiped away tears as he pleaded with Congress on Wednesday to help rescind laws that limit medical research into gun deaths and that restrict doctors from asking patients about guns in their homes.
Begg’s testimony highlighted a growing battle between some doctors and some gun advocates over whether federal health dollars should be spent on research into gun violence, and on whether doctors should counsel their patients about gun safety.
Medical groups have been complaining for years about restrictions on the research. And now 101 doctors from Newtown, Conn., have started their own group to try to influence both legislation and, perhaps, the U.S. culture itself.
“We are being intimidated not to discuss gun violence as a public health issue,” Begg, emergency medical services director at Danbury Hospital, 10 miles from Newtown, said in testimony to a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on gun violence.
Begg was working in his hospital’s emergency department on Dec. 14 when Adam Lanza shot and killed 20 small children at Sandy Hook Elementary School using his mother’s assault rifle and other weapons. He has begun speaking out, with other doctors, against what they see as efforts to keep them from doing their utmost to prevent gun violence.
“Allow me as a medical doctor, when I see a patient and I talk to them about the risks of excess alcohol, or tobacco use, or safe sex, morbid obesity, seat belts, texting and driving, can I talk to them about the risk of gun violence, please?” Begg asked.
Begg asked Congress to ban assault weapons, high capacity ammunition magazines and semi-automatic rifles. “People say the overall number of assault weapons deaths is small. Please don’t say that to the people of Tucson or Columbine or Aurora or Virginia Tech and don’t tell that to the people of Newtown,” he said to applause from the audience in the hearing room.
Alex Wong/Getty Images
Dr. William Begg (R), and Neil Heslin (L), the father of 6-year-old Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting victim Jesse Lewis, testify during a hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee on "The Assault Weapons Ban of 2013."
“This is a tipping point. And this is a public health issue.”
Begg referred to legislation in Florida – rescinded after a judge ruled against it — that would have pulled the medical licenses of doctors who tried to discuss gun safety with patients and then fined $10,000. The American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and other medical groups all oppose such legislation – and they had been calling even before the Connecticut shootings for more research on gun violence.
In 1996, after a particularly critical report on gun deaths in the United States, Ark. Rep. Jay Dickey sponsored an amendment that removed $2.6 million from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s budget, which was the precise amount the agency had spent on firearms studies. It hasn’t published a gun study since.
President Barack Obama earlier this year issued a memorandum directly ordering the CDC and other federal agencies to do gun research. But groups like the Union of Concerned Scientists say more needs to be done to ensure that medical professionals can have a hand in compiling statistics on gun deaths, can talk to patients about the dangers of firearms, and can speak out about their findings publicly.
Pediatrician Dr. Greg Dworkin agrees. He and about 100 other doctors from the Newtown area, Begg among them, have started a group called United Physicians for Newtown.
“We, the physicians, felt that we needed to do something and we needed to do it in a way that was consistent with our own profession,” Dworkin said in a telephone interview.
“We got together as physicians to see if there was something we could agree on, knowing the whole issue of how to prevent violence like this is not so simple.”
As in any community, the doctors in Newtown – who had begun calling one another and moving into place to help within minutes of learning about the shootings – have a range of political views.
“Newtown is a rural area,” Dworkin said. It’s full of hunters and sports shooting enthusiasts. Some people even have backyard gun ranges. The doctors were sensitive to fears that peoples’ guns might be taken away from them.
But there was plenty they did agree on.
“We felt that as a first principle, we want to speak up as physicians (and say) that research on violence, gun violence, violence against children should be done,” he said.
“We agreed mental health should be part of this. We agreed there is a culture of violence,” he added.
“We agreed we had to take a stand about gun safety.”
Universal background checks, assault weapons bans and bans on high capacity-ammunition magazines all won wide support from the doctors, he said.
And they wanted to keep party politics out of it. “But it is reasonable for physicians and professional health workers to be allowed to discuss this,” Dworkin said.
“We are talking about a registry of injuries,” he added. After the Sept. 11 attacks, public health officials started a registry of illnesses among people exposed to toxic dust as the World Trade Centers collapsed. There needs to be something similar for firearms injuries, the group agreed. “It’s a public health issue,” Dworkin says.
Dworkin, himself a blogger for the Daily Kos, says members of the group want to speak publicly – at hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee, for instance.
Begg reeled off the statistics.”If you actually own a gun in your home because you think it is going to make you safer, let me give you some facts,” he told the committee hearing.
“Women are five times more likely be killed by a spouse if there’s a gun in the house. That’s a real study. If you have a gun in the house you are five times as likely to die of suicide, 20 times as likely to die of unintentional gun death.”
Research like this can only inform the argument, Begg, Dworkin and the other doctors of Newtown argue.
Doctor who received Newtown victims, William Begg, describes the "horrific injuries to little bodies" caused by semi-automatic weapons during Senate Judiciary Committee
Related:
Tearful testimony in Senate hearing on guns
Leave a Comment:
Idiot Liberals are a public health hazard.
Are all the doctors asking for this liberals? No, they aren't.
So what was your point?
The point is that Boozer has nothing of value to say.
Boozer is right !!
Actually UDontKnow.
Boozer didn't say anything about doctors. He said Idiot Liberals are public health hazards. How could you not agree with that?
Idiot Conservatives are the same, but then you do need to be able to read and comprehend to follow this.
Back to the Dr.'s in the story, their just idiots, not sure of their political leanings.
Assault weapons are much better at killing than hand guns. Therefore, people who want assault weapons are not satisfied with just self-defense; they are not satisfied unless the target is DEAD.
Guns are now a 'public health hazard' according to these lib doctors. Boy, we're really trying to turn up the heat on the propaganda wagon now!
Give us a break! Eating fatty foods, stressful lifestyles, and a lot of other things are true health hazards. Guns, are NOT the problem! The hands that wield the guns ARE! The brains that control the hands that control the guns- even more specific... there lies the rub, doctors!
Dr. Begg,
It is unethical for your to bring your own political agenda into your professional practice and certainly inappropriate to bring your practice, along with your personal agenda, into the confines of my home. Your job is to heal and not to proactively involve yourslef with non medical issues without consent.
sorry about the double post
Great, lets study the part about the person holding the weapon and why they think its OK to shoot another human. Normal people don't do that.
I am a moderate Democrat, or I would say I was a moderate Democrat. After hearing the BS from the White House,Joe Biden and Diane Feinstein I am withholding all funding and support for the party. These people do not know what they are talking about when it comes to gun control and it goes beyond that. I will be voting GOP in absence of a viable Independent.
The majority of shootings are with hand guns, not rifles. The majority of triggermen are minorities living in urban, heavily Democratic areas with poor schools and no jobs.
Is this idiot also going to ask people if they own an atv, dirt bike, scooter, or snowmobile? After all, high numbers of children are killed or maimed while riding these things.
wow, even the concerned doctors dont mention the drugs they prescribe to anyone for any reason that very well could be a catalyst for these violent outburst.nope not going to discuss that at all.why? whats up doc? afraid of opening a pandoras box? this is the hieght of hypocracy.
I don't know any "idiot liberals."
All of the idiots I have ever run into are Republicans.
That's how the Republican party is able to win the elections it does win. Rural, uneducated, conservative, Christian males make up the majority of the GOP.
Once a person receives an education or has a higher degree of intelligence, they no longer are Republicans. At a minimum, they become independents, if they are truly smart, they become Democrats.
I started reading this and not too far into it, I saw the first lie.
The shooter did NOT use an "assault rifle" in Newtown, he used 4 pistols.......The assault rifle he took from his dead mother was in the car.
http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/30208-nbc-admits-no-assault-rifle-used-in-newtown-shooting/
More misleading media to drive the agenda......pitiful.
don97524
Assault weapons are much better at killing than hand guns.
-----------------------------------------
they are for capable marksmen.... for regular everyday criminals.... they are no more dangerous than handguns... there might be a slight gain to number of shots fired per minute... but not much.... theres just about 4 extra seconds every thirty shots.... and criminals don't carry rifles because they are so large..
if assault weapons are banned... another columbine will happen and the anti gun crowd will have wasted all our time and tax dollars.... again
and blown their chance to make real change
I apologize in advance for yelling.
WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE WORTHLESS GOVERNMENT STUDIES!!!! These Dr.'s want nothing more than research grants to fund their lifestyles.
do we really want doctors question people about what goes on in your home ! It will be documented and law enforcement and insurance companies will have access to ALL information..
California state senate is trying to pass a law that all gun owners must carry $1 million in insurance coverage and this will continue to other states and then federally !
Dirp, there are idiots on both sides, not just one side. Oh yes, and IF they are truly smart, they would stay the h away from all the BS rhetoric spewing parties.
So, everyone (including the NRA) is clamoring for more research on mental health, but research into gun violence has to be suppressed?
What's the matter, are they afraid they'll discover that a gun fixation is a certifiable disease?
Doctors have their opinion, I have my opinion and so does everyone else. Bottom line is if someone is going to physically attack me or my family members I have a constitutional right to defend my family. This is a right of any creature on the planet. For those who think differently, fine don't defend yourself. It's a nasty world out there. Maybe you've been lucky so far, maybe you don't think there are bad people in the world and that your living in Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. Go right ahead and don't defend yourself or loved ones that's your option.
There are millions of semi-automatic rifles in the U.S.. All are capable firing a round if a person pulls the trigger.
There are millions of people that own semi-automatic rifles and a small fraction of a percentage of them are capable of killing someone with them.
All the guns can kill but they don't, All the people can kill and some do, why then is the problem with the gun? Ban crazy a$$holes that kill people!
If we took away cars, 16,000 people wouldn't die in alcohol related crashes EVERY year. Any takers?
"California state senate is trying to pass a law that all gun owners must carry $1 million in insurance coverage and this will continue to other states and then federally !"
Did the California state senate get their budget balanced yet? After all of this time, I don't believe they did. Maybe they should worry about getting their over spending under control, and not worry about soaking those who are law abiding gun owners out of more money just to make the insurance companies richer.
I think all of the "idiots" have made it over to the republican party, ask Bobby Jindal, he seems to know!!
Anyone with a little common sense and total property values in 7 figures should have a multi-million dollar umbrella policy, I know I do.
"What's the matter, are they afraid they'll discover that a gun fixation is a certifiable disease?"
Gun fixation is a certifiable disease? Really? I gather you are a certifiable doctor who is trained in this field and can make this claim? With a user name like Crazy Steve, I very much doubt it. By the way, when did it become the norm to say that people with mental health issues, who try and kill others, only use guns to do so? I gather it did since it is now a government agenda.
Oooooh K......
NOW it is about a "mental issue" instead of GUN CONTROL.
That "shoots" the Progressive agenda out the window.
Gun research would be useful to answer the question, are you safer with a gun?
Gun people say they are safer, but they don't know. The feel safer, but they don't know. Everyday there is an news story about someone who thought he was safer with a gun, but was not.
Currently, there is a federal law (supported by the NRA) that prohibits funding research into guns. Knowledge is not the NRA's friend!!
1) Most legal gun owners are law abiding citizens and pose no threat.
2) Most legal gun owners have the firearms secured in a safe manner and educate all involved with the handling ofthe firearms.
3) A very very small number of these owners may not be on the up and up (That is the same for every aspects of life).
4) The criminals will get the guns no matter what laws are passed, that is why they are criminals.
5) The media tends to go on a 24/7 coverage on the events, and not identify the underlying causes of the issues like the mental health of the individuals involved.
6) With the first person games with real life likeness also tend to become a bigger problem and is not being addressed like one would expect.
7) The Hollywood pictures are still releasing the action packed shoot them up flicks both on the big screen and on NBC,CBS and ABC. Those same actors come out of the woodwork against guns.
Think about it!!
moshuluu, I gather I am suppose to be impressed by that? No, I'm not. Life isn't a seven figure bank account or how much property one owns, it never has been, and never will be. And not all people who own guns has the intent of killing others with them.
I have to point out that all the people who are claiming the doctors are idiots are gun zealots. Obviously conducting research into gun deaths and violence is threatening to these irate marksmen. Perhaps because it will show conclusively who the real idiots are.
No one is talking about taking your guns away. You can still play with them. What they would like to see is factual up to date information on a primary cause of death in this country. Is that really so idiotic?
#4 false. If guns become more difficult to get, it will be more difficult for criminals to get them. When guns are super easy to obtain legally, they are trivial to obtain illegally.
#5 What more do we need to know, other than a crazy person got a gun? There is a story today about a grand mother who killed her grand kids with a hand gun. Everyone knew the granny was cuckoo. How can you get a gun away from a cuckoo person, and keep her from buying another one?
I have been shouting this all along.
LET US STUDY THE "GUN VIOLENCE" PROBLEM.
Let's study which guns are causing the problems, i.e. which guns are used most commonly in crimes. Let's study which which group of people are most likely to cause those crimes.
Then let's solve those problems.
Leave it to a Liberal to screw it up. WE DO NOT NEED THE DATA THAT COMES FROM THIS; "Medical groups have been complaining for years about restrictions on the research."
The data we need comes from police reports, autopsies and the courts (convictions).
And if a doctor asks me if I have a gun in the house, I will tell him it isn't any of his business. The Government doesn't need to know if there are any guns in my house either.
Only in America-2604171
You should really learn the definition and use of sarcasm, or is that above your skill set? Although your reaction makes me wonder (in my layman's opinion) if it may not be true...
The powerful NRA lobby has impacted data studies done by the likes of John Hopkins and many other researchers.
Why does the NRA fear data gathering?
I am pro 2nd Amendment, but nothing would please me more for the next firearm casulty in America to be Wayne Lapierre.
To find out why democrats like chris matthews lovers and maddow lovers dont like fox news see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNj0T4uK3lE&feature=player_detailpage
Don't you love the statistics? "If you have a gun in the house you are five times as likely to die of suicide." Translation, if you try with a gun you succeed, if not, other methods are less certain. Well, duh, guns are excellence killing machines. If I want to commit suicide, I'd use a gun. If you want sympathy, take an overdose two minutes before the spouse comes home. Meaningless statistic.
"You are 20 times as likely to die of unintentional gun death.” Duh, again. Kind of hard to die of an unintentional gunshot if there is no gun in the house. Stray bullets don't whiz by that often. Another meaningless statistic.
"Women are five times more likely be killed by a spouse if there’s a gun in the house." Another biased statistic as he doesn't say how many were actually shot. So a guy stabs his wife while there is a gun in the house. How is this statistic meaningful?
Why don't they give real statistics such as it much more likely for your non-gang banger child to die in a swimming accident than to be shot? (1158 deaths in 2002) Or that you are more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than to be shot? (10000 deaths a year versus less than 3000 non-gang banger deaths) Or that you are more likely to be stabbed to death than be shot with an assault rifle? (1000's versus less than 300 hundred) Give the real statistics that the vast majority of shooting deaths are gang bangers killing gang bangers (91% in Baltimore in 2007). The average citizen has little to fear from guns, unless you live in a gang infested neighborhood. That's the real facts, not this scare tactics you see from the news media.
How many of you read about gun violence every day? How many reports of drunk driving deaths have you read? None? Even though drunk driving deaths are the same or more each year than shooting deaths? I wonder why?
I want to see the statistics of how many people were not a victim of violent crime because they had a gun or better tool then their attacker did. Also how many were a victim of violent crime because they did not take the proper precautions and arm themselves with some kind of tool to defend themselves with. To make them "equal" to others.
According to the FBI in 2009 there were only 2.2 MILLION burglaries (not robberies which not involve a structure) of those 61% were forcible entries, another 6.5% were attempted forced entries, and the remainder were unlawful entries without force. Residential properties accounted for 72.6 percent of those totals.
Let us do a little math to see how many that is. That is 1,597,200 residential break ins each year, of those 1,078,110 were forced entries or attempted ones. How are you going to defend yourself and your family versus someone who is armed with at least a tool capable of breaking into your home with? According to more math, since there are 314 million people in the U.S. approx then you have a 1 in 291 chance of being a victim of burglary each and every year.
Also there were 1.3 million violent crimes committed in 2009 of those aggravated assaults accounted for 61.2%, robbery comprised 31%, forcible rape accounted for 6.7%, and murder accounted for 1.2% of those crimes. There were an estimated 429.4 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009, or a 1 in 232.9 chance of being a victim of violet crimes each and every year you live.
1.3 mil in violent crimes plus the 1.08 mil in forced burglaries each year equals a 1 in 132 chance of meeting someone that wants do you harm or to take something from you with force. What is the average life expectancy again? Maybe the idea of having a tool to defend yourself with is not such a "bad" idea since according to the math at least half of the population of the U.S. will be victims of either burglary or violent crime sometime in their life. Only morons living in la la land, fantasy land, or utopia would think otherwise.
I stopped reading this garbage right after this IDIOT, "Wiped away tears" and wants doctors to be able to ask about guns in the home...."YO, DOC, IT'S NONE OF YOUR EFFING BUSINESS" If my doctor ever asks me this question, I will politely inform him, if you keep asking me questions that have ZERO to do with why I am here(such as asking me if I went to college, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, DOC)I will find a new doctor. This is just another attempt at Complete Gov't control. They are doing everything they can to take away ever last freedom that Americans once enjoyed. Give America another 10 years and you wont be able to get a job unless "your gubbernment doctor okays you first". Screw you people who want to take away other peoples rights(read: Guns) because you think we shouldn't be allowed to own them. It's like porn, you don't like it, don't watch it, it's really that simple. Oh, guess what, I'm a Liberal Leaning Indie.... put that in your peace pipe and toke up.....
The stats are not meaningless. For example, no one dies from a can opener. A can opener in the house is not a risk factor for homicide or suicide. It is perfectly safe for you to have a can opener in your house. It poses no risk or danger. You can leave it lying around the house, even if you have kids.
But guns, on the other hand, are not so safe.
Make sense now?
Let's stop medicating children and making up phony names for bad behavior like BPD, ADD, and AHDA etc.
Good point Millerman15, in the majority of these cases where youngsters were armed and dangerous I would think that their parents were just as guilty for not having their firearms properly secured. In many states that itself is illegal. But we do live in a world where irresponsibility is the norm and seemingly acceptable and responsibility is all to easy ignore.
The only problem I have with all of this is the more than obvious continued relegating of Mental Health (Illness) to being secondary to "Physical" Health or Illness and setting up for everything to have to first and only specifically have to go through Medical "Physical" Doctors before the possibility of a "Psychologist". It's a tipping point alright. Time for Mental Illness to get tipped out of "Physician" take-over, manipulation and control.
The retired Psychologist who lived across the street from the School did more to alleviate and ameliorate, with lasting result than any Physician could have even had a clue of doing!
Hey Davey, you have any proof of that? I didn't think so. How do you feel about your steak knives in the kitchen, I suppose those would "Never, ever" be used for a crime or suicide. Put locks on everything, hide away in a deep dark cave, cuz it's a scary world out there...... Your post didn't make any sense at all. Guns are as safe as that great big carving knife in your kitchen drawer and are only as dangerous as the person that picks it up and that is a FACT!
Make sense NOW?
Mental health study on gun violence, fine. Mental health is not a medical doctors area of expertise. Medical doctor asking me if I have a gun in the house, none of your business. What makes medical doctor's think they are gun safety experts. Gun safety is not in their field of study.
If someone breaks into my home with the intention of doing me or my family harm yes I want him DEAD, because that was probably his plan for me. Also dead people can't sue.
PS. A shotgun would probably be a better weapon to KILL the intruder with than an "assault" rifle.
And if a doctor ever asks me if there is a gun in my home I'm going to ask him "why, am I bleeding? Do I look like I've been shot? I'm here for XYZ today not a trauma wound. Can you get to work on the problem or not?
Hi Bryan,
Proof that can openers are harmless? Do you have proof that can openers are not harmless? Is it safe for us to say that can openers are harmless?
I'll say it now, can openers are harmless. You are welcome to dispute that. Would be more interesting if you had some proof.
Well then, it did not make any sense to you? What exactly did you have trouble with? I thought it was easy to understand, and not at all controversial.
Well, now hold on a minute. Guns are more dangerous than knives. I'm saying that. Not in some sort of a theoretical, philosophical, existential sense. In the US, people use guns to kill and injure more than they use knives. And WAAAAAY more than they use can openers to kill or injure.
Do you really want to know how dangerous guns are vs knives? Well, you need to be 21 years old to buy a hand gun. There is no age restriction to buy a knife.
The reason we allow just about anyone to buy a knife and require you to be an adult to buy a hand gun is because, guns are more dangerous than knives.
Make sense now?
ban the doctors &physicians DRUGS !after all either the doctors themselves abuse there own meds or just overdose the general population on there script poisons to make a profit ,good example is oxycoton"plauge thats taking over the communities,as well as all the mental health drugs that have worse side effects then the disease its suppose to cure
Maybe MSNBC left some of the information out by accident, because Begg's 'study' makes no sense:
“Women are five times more likely be killed by a spouse if there’s a gun in the house. That’s a real study. If you have a gun in the house you are five times as likely to die of suicide, 20 times as likely to die of unintentional gun death.”
I know hundreds of married women. Thousands, even. And, many of their homes have guns. I do not know of one woman, man or child who has been shot. So, what does Begg mean that 'women are five times more likely to be killed by a spouse if there is a gun in the house." And, Begg says, "Five times more likely to die of suicide, 20 times as likely to die of unintentional gun death."
In comparison to what? His statistics make no sense. There are 200,000 people just in my county and a gun death is news. Did MSNBC leave something out or is Begg just adding drama? What am I missing?
These doctors should focus on medicine and finding ways to stop all the deaths that occur each year due to medical mistakes. They should stay out of the gun issue. Guns are not a health problem, they are a crime problem. Doctors doing research on gun violence is a reach unless maybe you are talking about psychiatrists, which these doctors are not. And even then, it is not really about the guns but the psychological conditions that cause a person to resort to violence of any kind, not just guns. Gun violence is the latest fad for researchers and everyone is trying to jump on the bandwagon. Doctors have no business asking patients about guns in their homes unless they are treating the person for psychological problems and are worried about the person becoming a danger. Then the doctor should report their concerns to law enforcement and let them take action to remove the guns if warranted. This is really nothing more than a bunch of doctors looking to get a piece of the pie of research dollars and they will do whatever they need to in order to get it, even going outside of their field of expertise.
Kellerman's study really stirred up water. I thought it was absolutely fascinating. Doctors are in a great position to collect data that can help us answer a big question: Do guns make you safer?
For example, the emergency room is a great place to collect some data. If someone rolls into the ER with a gunshot wound, find out, was it self-inflicted? was it accidental? is it a bad guy who was shot by a responsible gun owner? Folks, we need this information. We have to stop living a fantasy.
If you can't trust a doctor, who can you trust? (I know, I know, you can trust your gun.)
Davey we taking a electric or manual can opener, will it doesn't matter cause it is a tool just like a firearm till someone uses it for evil purposes. and yes you could kill some one with a can opener, steak knife magazine, rock etc etc etc. Firearms just make it more efficient and easier it is the intent of the person not the tool
Too bad they're not interested in studying the relationship between psychotropic medication and violence.
http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/
Keeping feeding the people toxic meds. Its gone so well.
I'm quite sure big pharmaceutical interests are happy to see their lackeys in DC avoid the obvious and distract the masses.
What a POS !!!!! this @!$%#ing doctor..if my doctor ask about guns in my house he will get a none of your @!$%#ing business what is in my house plus i will stop going to his clinic!
these are the kind of people who ARE the enemy; they need to be treated like the enemy and the traitors they are; advancing communist control agendas using not less than tragedy where small kids died!! people like this doctor deserves his tongue to be stab with a rusty screw driver so he can get tetanus and stop talking @!$%# he doesn't even reach to comprehend
mushuluu, sure girl and Barry Hussein Obama is the tooth fairy. Quit drinking the koolaid girl, it's beginning to harm you!
There are a lot of people here afraid of getting asked questions about guns and gun violence. That seems weird, when did asking questions become an attack on your 2nd amendment rights?
Paranoia is one of the factors that should throw up a red flag on the gun registry, don't you think?
A can opener is a tool for opening cans. People open cans with a can opener. No one kills anonther person with a can opener.
Guns are a tool for killing. The right tool for the job!
Yes, that is what I am saying. Guns make it easy to kill. That is why they are dangerous.
"You should really learn the definition and use of sarcasm, or is that above your skill set? Although your reaction makes me wonder (in my layman's opinion) if it may not be true..."
It may be sarcasm on your part, but it reads as the a-typical anti-gun statement. And by the way, you do know where you can shove your layman's opinion, right? Also, sarcasm coming from someone I know, is easy to see, but not from a person that I don't know.
Let us study the mistakes and negligence of doctors in the US- at a minimum there are 125,000+ needless deaths due to their mistakes every year. Factor in hospital mistakes and infections contracted by patients while confined and there are nearly 1/4 million deaths.
Right...so your conclusion is deaths would go down if there were no doctors? You must be a genius, thanks for such an insightful post.
You have to admit his imaginary statistics are pretty entertaining, though. 250,000 deaths each year at the hands of doctors? Hilarious!
When doctors and nurses go on strike, death rates do go down.
Maybe you need to be a little more 'awake' before commenting on things you don't know.
Death by doctors and the medical community is the USA alone is over 150,000 per year. Look it up.
If you want to thank anyone,thank the insurance industry. These bastards use every excuse in the world why they should not pay a bill. Either after there was a referal, or co-pay was met. My wife & I have fought with them many times after our daughter was born 2 months premature.Good luck getting a mental exam for somone that has mental health issues.
You're welcome not to seek treatment, DOU. If you expect anyone to be perfect, perhaps you should start with yourself.
Medical malpractice is heavily studied in the US. But gun violence itself is studied very little, mostly due to prohibitions by the government. Although I am not in favor of gun controls (own some myself), it is stupid to say the issue shouldn't be studied.
By the way - if you don't trust doctors, don't go to them. Ever. Simple enough solution. I'll take my risks with the doctors, personally.
@udunnobro
I think what dou44 means is, if doctors want to research something they might start with something closer to home.
Nothing in the United States (but the Florida law) has prevented anyone from studying gun violence statistics. What has been stopped has been certain government agencies from creating expenses related to such a study. Certainly both the Brady Hand Gun Control folks and the NRA have both done numerous studies, as well as any group with an agenda. So this "tearful plea" by the doctor is simply political theatre.
Please to remember, Doctor's aren't gods, they are as often as wrong as the little peons like you and me, their word is educated and informed on health, but it isn't gospel. Before you all got your panties in a twist over the previous poster (daring to challenge the opinion of your doctors,) he was trying to make the point that doctors also make a lot of mistakes, and more of those doctor's mistakes are the direct cause of death of more people annually than all of the guns in private hands. Does it mean that we should give up doctor's all together? Oh come on... But it does mean that A. we have every right to question doctors and their motives, and B. Doctors have plenty of causes of death IN their hands, solving that problem (that is killing people now) would be a much more fruitful use of their time than trying to take guns out of legal, law-abiding owner's hands.
Do doctors go on strike? Really?
Another ratcheting up of the anti gun propaganda this time employing some physicans to imply gun violence is at epidemic proportions across the nation.
Let's examine some hard facts:.
In 2011, the total number of gun-related deaths was 8,583.
Taken by itself, out of context, that number seems overwhelming. But taken in the context of overall deaths in America from--including natural causes--that number represents only .34 percent of all deaths for that year.
In other words, the percentage of deaths that were gun-related in 2011 does not even equal half of one percent of the 2,513,171 overall deaths for that year.
And if you really want to see how exaggerated the current anti-"assault rifle" rhetoric is, just look at 2011 numbers for the percentage of rifle-related deaths. That figure is .012 percent of the overall deaths in America in 2011.
Meanwhile, the percentage of overall deaths that were the result of falling off things like rocks and ladders was 1 percent, or nearly three times the percentage of deaths that were gun-related: 26,631 versus 8,583.
Gun-related deaths represented only .34 percent of all deaths in America 2011. If the left wants us to feel safer, maybe they need to start banning ladders instead of guns.
Just more lies by Obama and his bunch to achieve his long held desire to disarm the American people and keep his promise to the UN bozos to force compliance with their Agenda 21 which entails the complete disarming of all civilian populations.
To be fair, there are indeed some areas in this country where gun violence is very high. You can usually identify them by looking for the areas with highly restrictive firearms laws.
Chicago comes to mind. Imagine that.
What the media has FAILED miserably at making clear is that THE AR-15 WAS LEFT IN HIS CAR. Not much to talk about and lie about when the firearm at the center of the gun debate was NEVER USED IN THE MASSACRE.
Don't let cuomo hear this, he'll ban doctors.....
I have to point out that all the people who are claiming the doctors are idiots are gun zealots. Obviously conducting research into gun deaths and violence is threatening to these irate marksmen. Perhaps because it will show conclusively who the real idiots are.
No one is talking about taking your guns away. You can still play with them. What they would like to see is factual up to date information on a primary cause of death in this country. Is that really so idiotic?
Typical RW debate tactic...change the course of the topic. No facts, just more slurs. The NRA has spent billions of dollars, thanks to the Kochs and their ALEC, I'm sure...to insert into bills legislations AGAINST ANY TYPE OF STUDIES OF GUN DEATHS, ANY KIND OF GUN LAW ENFORCEMENT, TYING THE HANDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT TO ACTUAL DO ANYTHING TO REDUCE GUN SALES OR REGISTRATION, OR STUDY THE CAUSE AND EFFECT OF GUNS IN THE HOME.
And it will be that way...UNTIL SOME GOP CONGRESSMAN OR GOVERNOR HAS A CHILD, WIFE, OR GRANDCHILD KILLED LIKE THOSE IN CONNECTICUT WERE. Then boy, will you see things changed!!!!
Yes, there are some issues in the medical field that need to be studied.
And what we need to study in the "gun" field is who is using the guns to do what. Let's find out what percentage of guns are acquired how, legally, illegally. Let's find out if the CCW is responsible for as much reduction in crime as some would advertise. All of which is public record, once a crime is committed with a gun.
What we don't need is to study the data that is prohibited, as pointed to by Brisaber. There is nothing there but who bought what and when, (the gun registration data base). It only pertains to legal guns and gun owners anyway.
This Doctor saw many small bodies dead from gunshot wounds and it gnaws at him as it would any normal person. His emotion is understandable. However, if you want to study gun violence by psychiatric patients then the starting point is in the health-care area where these medicated psychos got there start. The other area second on list would be criminals and in my opinion you do not need a study to figure out why people commit crimes. They want to! Then the media where violence and the sensationalism and condoning of all types of deviant behavior is glorified. Last, people in general because you never know who will kill next. A new department should be instituted and called the thought and conduct control unit of acceptable and politically correct behaviour.
Prevalance of Sexually Transmitted
Diseases: 65 million people living with an incurable STD (CDC)
Wet Willy,
Your figure is the number of known gun homicides. You left out gun suicides and gun accidental deaths. When you start throwing out terms like "gun-related deaths" one would expect you to be honest enough to include all gun related deaths. The number of gun suicides is more than the number of gun homicides and if I remember correctly the number of long guns used in suicides is almost 40% of the total gun suicides.
By the way, there is no evidence that firearm violence correlates to restrictive gun laws. When you examine the states that have lax gun laws they are comparable in gun murders per 100,000 to states with strict gun laws. Without an actual up to date study, which the Drs point out has not been done, you are just making up facts and pretending they are real.
Obama-care and business impact
"It’s going to affect business and it’s going to make it less competitive. "But probably every operator will have to deal with this. It will be an extra cost on the average hour that you have to pay for. And people will raise their prices and pass it on to the consumer."
It seems more than one person still believe the Bushmaster rifle was left in the trunk of the car. That was an initial report by the media that was incorrect. It was a shotgun left in the car. The Bushmaster rifle is the weapon used on the children. The autopsy reports list the number of wounds and the calibre which is the Bushmaster.
Please correct your "facts" to reality and stop repeating something that was incorrectly reported and later corrected.
I want to see the statistics of how many people were not a victim of violent crime because they had a gun or better tool then their attacker did and how many were a victim because they did not take the proper precautions and arm themselves with some kind of tool to defend themselves with.
According to the FBI in 2009 there were only 2.2 MILLION burglaries (not robberies which do not involve a structure) of those 61% were forcible entries, another 6.5% were attempted forced entries, and the remainder were unlawful entries without force. Residential properties accounted for 72.6 percent of those totals.
Let us do a little math to see how many that is. That is 1,597,200 residential break ins each year, of those 1,078,110 were forced entries or attempted ones. How are you going to defend yourself and your family versus someone who is armed with at least a tool capable of breaking into your home with? According to more math, since there are 314 million people in the U.S. approx then you have a 1 in 291 chance of being a victim of burglary each and every year.
Also there were 1.3 million violent crimes committed in 2009 of those aggravated assaults accounted for 61.2%, robbery comprised 31%, forcible rape accounted for 6.7%, and murder accounted for 1.2% of those crimes. There were an estimated 429.4 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009, or a 1 in 232.9 chance of being a victim of violet crimes each and every year you live.
1.3 mil in violent crimes plus the 1.08 mil in forced burglaries each year equals a 1 in 132 chance of meeting someone that wants do you harm or to take something from you with force. What is the average life expectancy again? Maybe the idea of having a tool to defend yourself with is not such a "bad" idea since according to the math at least half of the population of the U.S. will be victims of either burglary or violent crime sometime in their life. Only morons living in la la land, fantasy land, or utopia would think otherwise.
Finally some common sense in this conversation, but no doubt, second amendment haters do not care about the truth, they care about politics, they don't care about crimes in the street of Chicago , they care about the guns owned by law abiding citizens. Gun owner bashes are stupids, they make a hero an ex-cop killer because he accuse the LA Police( liberals hate police, specially the ones that control,the violence of left wing protesters) but they want to take away guns from woman because they can kill an innocent in a case of possible assault( comments from Rep. Salazar (D) Colorado) . that is the stupidity of liberals.
Remember that when you have a heart attack and go to the hospital. Idiot, the reason death rates are higher when a doctor is involved is because many people do not bother to go to the doctor until their medical problems are more serious. I guess they are hoping it will go away. If you wait until it's a serious illness, and then go to the doctor, you have a greater chance of dying because - guess what? - doctors are only human. They aren't miracle workers. Unfortunately, the insurance companies add to this too because they deny medical procedures and tests that doctors need to diagnose medical problems. A local man had 3 different cardiac tests denied by his insurance company - they said it cost too much - and the 4th was done. It was done in the ER when he nearly died from a heart attack that would have been caught had they authorized any of those other tests. When the insurance commissioner checked into the claims by area cardiac physicians that this insurance company denied over 50% of the procedures they requested, they discovered that the insurance company was giving bonuses to workers based on the number of denials of service - and the one who had done the majority of the cardiac test denials had a high school diploma. The dude didn't even understand what the test was - all he saw was how much it cost and denied it. He didn't even look at the reason for the request or the background of the patient. This is why your doctor often cannot practice good medicine. Try building a house when all you can have to cut the wood is a carving knife.
debnran: Managed health-care added a fifty percent cost increase to everything. Look back through the years to find out politicians made big money investing in these business's using insider trader techniques passing laws and regulations. It also happened with the enviromental laws back in the seventies if you want to investigate.
The actual number of iatrogenic death in the US is over 700,000 per year. It is the number one cause of death in the US. Our health care system has significant problems.
The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5)We had intended to publish the entire text of “Death By Medicine” in this month’s issue. The article uncovered so many problems with conventional medicine however, that it became too long to fit within these pages. We have instead put it on our website (www.lef.org).
UDunnoBro - What you're implying is a good point - that despite the number of deaths caused by doctors and hospitals, they both also provide benefits.
Why is this not a concern when it come to firearms? Maybe because you're unaware of the statistics? For example, the Clinton Justice Department estimated that there are 1.5 million defensive uses of firearms every year. Some estimates make it as high as 2.5 million. But using the Clinton DOJ figure, if only 1% of those uses saved one life each, that's 15,000 lives saved. If 5% of those defensive firearms uses saved people from serious injury (and the concomitant costs of treating, rehab, lost wages, etc.), that saves 75,000 people from experiencing negative, life-changing events (and a whole pile of money). Why isn't this discussed? Do you think Dr. Begg would be interested to know this? Why doesn't he? Or does he, but he's promoting a political agenda, not a health care agenda? Take your pick.
Doctors, as well as many others, will do anything, even stand on their heads till their ears turn red, for a federal handout.
Doctors are not necessarily experts in the field of armaments and should stick to their specialty, medicine. It will be my choice, and my choice alone whether or not to discuss anything with my doctor, not the doctor's nor the government's.
Let them study it, as far as my Dr. knows I have no guns, if he flat out asks me, I have no guns.
If doctors want to make a difference they can start by refusing to prescribe toxic chemicals pushed by big pharma.
As a nationailist that has served our nation in combat I have finally broke down and joined the NRA. You progressives convinced me that the only way to support the Bill of Rights is to guard the sancity of the 2nd Ammendment. So today I not only joined AARP, but also the NRA. Today is a glorius day. God bless the Republic and preserve us one and all from the progressives and other members of the 47%.
This is nonsense. There is no way the incidence of gun violence today is more than it was during the time of mob rule in the hey day of Capone and Pretty Boy Floyd, Bonnie and Clyde, Baby Face Nelson, and the sub machine gun toting gangsters of their day.
Give us another Elliot Ness who is willing to go after the damn gangsters shooting the guns, tell the media loving politicians and liberal "confiscate all guns" fools to concentrate on the real problem instead of their hysterical prejudices, and maybe some progress can be made.
It is a sad commentary on America that the NRA (a profit making, political organization) is so powerful, that it refuses to allow the Congress, and The President of The United States (two of the three Constitutional branches of our national government) to gather meaningfull information about gun-violence, that kills tens of thousands of Americans each year. They are much like the tobacco lobby, not wanting Americans to know about what was killing them. It's how they make their Billions$$$!
You will read here (and a lot of other places) about anecdotes, where people kill criminals in defending their homes. Such incidents likely occur. Nobody has any idea whether it's 17 times a year, or 1700 times a year (no statistics, you see). But, we do know that about 10,000 murders, and more than 15,000 of accidental deaths happen from guns, every year. It is a fact: The person most likely to be killed by your gun, is in your family (maybe even YOU). That's if your gun isn't stolen, and you stay sane, and don't decide to turn to a life of crime, and kill somebody. It is sheer self-delusion (fuelled mostly by your fear) that makes you think that having a gun makes you safer! And, if the NRA would let us collect statistics, that would likely be proven to you.
But, if I'm wrong, and having a gun would actually make you safer (instead of being just your emotion-driven response that lets you FEEL BETTER), wouldn't you like to know, for sure? But, the NRA has a good idea what the answer is, and they don't want you to find out. (You might decide a gun really makes you LESS SAFE, then how would they keep selling you guns and ammo? If it just makes you less safe?) And, we all know what the NRA is all about, right? (Keeping you scared witless, and buying guns and ammo!)
This is the discussion we should be having. Right now the whole debate is focussed on completely opposite tracks driven entirely by emotion. We need to get real data regarding where violence is most likely to occur, who is committing the violence and what works were it is reduced.
Absolutely correct. How can anyone make an informed decision without knowing the facts to begin with? It was a travesty when the CDC was defunded - I guess Rep. Jay Dickey was using the "no news is good news" approach when he managed to get the money pulled. Here we are 17 years later, when we could be reviewing tons of valid data, having to start from scratch.
Representative Dickey, as an analogy, threw the battery away 17 years ago when the smoke detector beeped. How many have burned because some dislike the sound of alarms?
N.R.A. Stymies Firearms Research, Scientists Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?_r=0
How The NRA Killed Federal Funding For Gun Violence Research
The CDC isn't allowed to pursue many kinds of gun research due to the lobbying strength of the National Rifle Association.
As a result of the National Rifle Association's lobbying efforts, governmental research into gun mortality has shrunk by 96 percent since the mid-1990s, according to Reuters.
Prior to 1996, the Center for Disease Control funded research into the causes of firearm-related deaths. After a series of articles finding that increased prevalence of guns lead to increased incidents of gun violence, Republicans sought to remove all federal funding for research into gun deaths.
In 1996, Republican Rep. Jay Dickey removed $2.6 million from the CDC budget — the precise amount the CDC spent on gun research in 1995 — at a time when the center was conducting more studies into gun-related deaths as a "public health phenomenon," according to The New York Times. The NRA and some pro-gun Congressmen perceived this as more of an attack.
Here's an excerpt of a 1997 article in Reason about the fight to kill gun science:
Since 1985 the CDC has funded scores of firearm studies, all reaching conclusions that favor stricter gun control. But CDC officials insist they are not pursuing an anti-gun agenda. In a 1996 interview with the Times-Picayune, CDC spokeswoman Mary Fenley adamantly denied that the agency is "trying to eliminate guns."
At the behest of the NRA, Congressional Republicans successfully removed all federal funding to the Center for Disease Control that would have gone into researching the effect of guns and the root causes of gun violence.
http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1
...and this news article, as well:
Scientists urge end to limits on gun safety research
(Reuters) - Research restrictions pushed by the National Rifle Association have stopped the United States from finding solutions to firearms violence, more than a hundred scientists from virtually every major U.S. university told Vice President Joe Biden's task force on gun violence in a letter on Thursday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/10/us-usa-guns-scientists-idUSBRE90915F20130110
Just drs. & university profs. wanting our tax monies to line their pockets.
Just another liberal fuggin way of trying to register your guns. They are trying to pull this bullchit on veterans, and than telling them they won't get services in a VA if they have a weapon at home because they may be "mentally disturbed." Wake the fk up, Obama and the liberals want you to be under their direct control.
Their statistics are a joke! 20 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun if one is in the house... well no sh*t Sherlock.. that's like saying your 50times more likely to be in an auto accident if you own/drive a car. Stats can be so manipulated! You want a study on where the most shootings take place, and who is pulling the trigger .. be prepared for the cold UN-politically correct results... My guess is that it is NOT in the country by farmers.
These doctors are idiots wanting to waste taxpayer money.Why not spend money trying to come up with a better way to treat mental illness.Let's spend tax money researching and developing better medicines for mental health conditions.Studying gun violence is not going to stop the thugs who are mostly tyhe ones behind all of the gun violence.And while our government's at it,how about enforcing the Rcio act and start incarcerating all gang members.they are terrorists plain and simple.
do we really want doctors question people about what goes on in your home ! It will be documented and law enforcement and insurance companies will have access to ALL information..
California state senate is trying to pass a law that all gun owners must carry $1 million in insurance coverage and this will continue to other states and then federally !
We do know that DHS released prisoners into the general population of Phoenix. Maybe the DOJ could do background checks on them like they did with Fast and Furious.
The Chicago PD has such statistics for gun deaths and violence for each year.
Look it up.
You'll see that, in their case, young black men in gangs with previous convictions out on public streets at night during certain months are quite prone to either shoot or be shot. And killed.
Nationwide, we need this data.
But not to punish law abiding citizens in other demographics who aren't causing the problems.
What good would any of that do? None of them are willing to look into the true culprit to all this and they keep beating around the bush, while a jungle grows up around them!
This is a social problem plain and simple and it is a problem exacerbated and perpetuated by a media conglomerate that shovels excessive violence, blood and gore down the throats of this society like it is ice cream with zero abatement 24 hours a day 365 days a year and they have succeeded in glorifying murder and mayhem to the point of completey desensitizing the public... while making billions and billions of dollars destroying this nations collective soul and all under the 1rst amendment... that they now use to blind fold the public by screaming about the dangers of the second!
It's all come to a point of complete futility! This country is living in such a state of denial it is incapable of seeing clear to the truth even if it walked up and hit them between the eyes with a sledge hammer!
We have allowed marketing and media run rough shod over the soul of this country and they have stomped it flat in the mud!
But oh no they refuse! to address that! It's sickning! Combine all this with an impotent legal system and what have we got? political and societal anarchy headed straight for civil insurrection that will be the most inhumane spectacle this wold has ever seen!
That is not going to happen, how many people actually Studied Philosophy (Logic). And:
http://money.msn.com/investing/11-things-wrong-with-congress
First, this Doctor William Begg as well as most of the Anti Gun people need to learn about Firearms (Ordnance) before even discussing them, he is just showing his ignorance about Firearms or that he is pushing an Agenda and must stick to what he knows the Medical Profession (not Psychology either).
Second, after Vice President Bidenwas appointed by President Obama to find solutions, Vice President Biden gathered together all the Experts and all the Resources of the US with these Results of his Studies:
Biden Blames Violence on 'Coarsening of Our Culture' January 17, 2013
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/biden-blames-violence-coarsening-our-culture
Biden concedes new laws won't end gun massacres February 1st, 2013
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/01/biden-concedes-new-laws-wont-end-gun-massacres/
Third, what are the chances (mathematical statistics) that most of the Mass Murderers (involving Firearms) were Democrats or raised by Democrats. a. Adam Lanza, Mother a Registered Democrat, Newtown. b. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, Parents Registered Democrats, Columbine. c. . Seung-Hui Cho, Registered Democrat, Virginia Tech, hated his Conservative Christian parents, hatred of the wealthy, self proclaimed "savior of the oppressed, the downtrodden, the poor, and the rejected". d. James Holmes, Registered Democrat, Aurora (Theater), "Anti Hero" as the Joker.
Fourth, just how well the previous "Assault Weapons Ban" did NOT work the last time. Still the Gangs got Illegal Firearms and Ammunition thru Illegal means anyway (not theft from Legal Firearm Owners). I explained before about the Mexican License to Manufacturer M-16s, M-4s, M-9 (pistols), etc. to equip the Mexican Military, as the Mexican Drug Cartels do not like unreliable M-16s, M-4s, M-9s, etc. and prefer Russian Federation AKs or Chinese copies of AKs that are shipped to South America (Hamas Foreign Fighters, Hezbollah) and smuggled thru Guatemala to the Mexican Drug Cartels. The M-16s, M-4s, M-9s, etc. are purchased or taken from the Mexican Military then smuggled into the US by the Illegal Aliens to pay for their being Human Trafficked into the US, these weapons then go to the Illegal Alien Gangs that act as the Drug Distributors within the US for the Mexican Drug Cartels; these Illegal Alien Gangs are also the Enforcers within the US for the Mexican Drug Cartels.
These M-16s, M-4s, are NOT the Civilian AR, AR = Armalite Company (AR DOES NOT STAND FOR ASSAULT RIFLE), nor Bushmaster copies of AR-15s; these M-16s, M-4s Manufactured at Mexico are the actual Military M-16s, M-4s; in most cases the Illegal Alien Gangs do not want the M-16s, M-4s and do want the M-9 pistols.
I previously stated before about the Illegal Alien Gangs moving to the Northern US to avoid the fierce (deadly) competition of rival Illegal Alien Gangs at the Southern US:
Mexican drug cartels fight turf battles in Chicago
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57499523/mexican-drug-cartels-fight-turf-battles-in-chicago/
Mexican drug lord is Chicago's 'Public Enemy No. 1'
Joaquin 'El Chapo' Guzman, leader of Sinaloa cartel, is 'the new Al Capone' of Chicago, says DEA's top official in the area
http://www.policeone.com/drug-interdiction-narcotics/articles/6120027-Mexican-drug-lord-is-Chicagos-Public-Enemy-No-1/
And yet with all the Gang Related Violence at Chicago, Registered Democrat Cleopatra Cowley-Pendleton allows her child, age 15, Hadiya Pendleton to go hang out on the streets as a lack of parential supervision, believed by Gang Members to be a Rival Gang Member. So now you hear the rest of the Facts (whole picture about the Mexican Drug Cartel Gangs at Chicago). I keep saying that there must be a US Law stating that Parents must have a Certification Course and Parenting License before anyone becomes Parents; and another US Law making Parents 100% Responsible and Accountable for their Children, until age 21.
The above situation with the Mexican Drug Cartels at the US is also starting up at New York City. There will be a "Turf War" between the Mexican Drug Cartels, the Russian Mob and the Eastern European Gangs (Mobs).
Fifth, President Obama's Previous Attempt to Eliminate the 2nd Amendment thru the United Nations with this Political Appointee US Ambassador Susan Rice. That even some Democrats stated was Unconstitutional:
Democrats Oppose Obama-U.N. Gun Control Treaty
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty
Sixth, What most should not Fear is the criminals; but, the Democrats, Democrat Supporters, etc. as:
"President Obama, this is your Army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of b!tches out and give America back to an America where we belong," US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior during President Obama's Reelection Campaign.
President Obama addressed the crowd shortly after US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior. US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior not arrested for "Terroristic Threatening of US Citizens", "Conspiracy To Commit the Murder of US Citizens", "Homegrown Domestic Terrorism Against US Citizens", etc..
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/05/jimmy_hoffa_at_obama_event_on_gop_lets_take_these_son_of_bitches_out.html
"Chancellor Hitler, we are your Army. We are ready to march. All Loyal German's Must take back Germany from the Jews". Chancellor Hitler's Brown Shirts, Sturmabteilung, Armed Paramilitary; and his Political Labor Union, National Socialist German Workers' Party, Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei aka NAZI.
Chancellor Hitler Ordering the elimination of other Political Parties (and did by Armed Force of his armed private Army, 1933), US Democrats demanding the elimination of the Republican Party (aka Republic of America Party, US Founded as a Republic NOT a Democracy, Founding Fathers arguments "Democracy is Mob Rule" and they were right when they witnessed the French Reign of Terror).
And nope, the Unionized US Law Enforcement will not protect you nor will the US Military (Summary Executions of US Military for disobeying the Order of Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens).
This Definition sound familiar (See Democratic Party US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior speech above):
DICTIONARY (Bing): Definition fascism, dictatorial movement: any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism
The argument about Dictators is not valid, as President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts: Expanded Presidential Powers. Monitoring and Censorship of All US Communications. Without Warrant Cooperation of All US Communications Providers. US Military Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens. Preemptive Detentions of US Citizens. Inclusion of the previously defeated as Unconstitutional US Senate S.1959 and US House of Representatives H.R. 1955 aka the George Orwell 1984 Thought Crimes Laws in that the written or witnessed verbal thoughts are the Felony Crime. US Military Tribunals renamed US Military Commissions (no due process of Law, Legal Defense no access to Classified Witnesses (accusers), no access to Classified Evidence, everything is Classified by the Government (Prosecution)). (No) Material Support to Terrorist Organizations (that includes "Expert Advise" as Legal Consul, no Due Process of Law, 2010 US Supreme Court Ruling, currently being fought by the ACLU), US Government determines "Terrorist Organizations". Correlations to the Revised US Insurrection Act and US NORTHCOM Contingency Plans.
Definition from President Obama's Patriot Acts (plural US Laws, not Bush Patriot Act singular US Law): "Anyone stating a radical change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist". In response the then speaker for all Democrats, Speaker of the US House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, "Anyone returning from the Wars is a potential Homegrown Domestic Terrorist" (Guilty Until Proven Innocent, No Due Process of Law).
Then, there is President Obama's 2012 NDAA, Indefinite Detentions of US Citizens.
Seventh, what needs to happen is all the Anti Gun Advocates need to have their "guns" (penises) removed along with their "high capacity magazines" (testicles) so that they cannot procreate anymore imbeciles, Doctor William Begg can go study the guns shown on the link below:
This Is My Rifle This Is My Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U
Eight, the National Rifle Association, NRA, actually trains most US Law Enforcement in Firearms Safety, and Marksmanship. Some money is from the State, City, or Local; but, the majority is from NRA Membership, same with Educating School Children with the Eddie Eagle Program (stay away from Firearms (shown what Firearms look like) and Report the Firearm(s) to an Adult).
Gun Safety with Eddie Eagle & Jason Priestley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSpIAXIrLG4
NRA's Law Enforcement Division (Train US Law Enforcement Nationwide, and Trains the Trainers for Police Academies)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MOiEQaRoBQ
So sure all of you Anti NRA, you pay for that training of YOUR US Law Enforcement that the NRA does for Free (that is where most of the Donations from the Firearms Manufacturers goes to). The NRA also conducts Nationwide Firearms Safety Courses for the many States requiring a Firearms Safety Course prior to purchase of a Firearm or being granted a Conceal Weapons Permit. So how about all of you Anti NRA go research how much per each Police Officer in your State, City, Local it would cost to train if you had to pay a US Security Contractor, instead of the Free NRA Training. But of course you don't know because most you were never US Law Enforcement or if you were you did not know that your Law Enforcement (Police) Academy (Sheriff's Department) Trainers were trained by the NRA.
Do I have to continue, Anita-2036926.
You want Solutions (Logical).
@Brent ... I don't know if the multiplier is "50" for being in an auto accident, but owning/driving a car is a valid health issue, just as is owning a gun. Both are factors in one's long-term health. We would certainly expect a doctor of ask a patient if he or she is a licensed driver, especially if the patient was aging. At a certain point, the doctor is likely to recommend that the patient stop driving for the safety of the patient (and those around him/her). Why shouldn't a physician be allowed to ask the same questions about gun ownership?
We require training of drivers and photo licenses that must be renewed on a regular basis. The cars themselves must be licensed. So, if you're trying to equate cars and guns, we need a lot more regulation of guns.
We need to find the Mentally Incompetents, and Do They have ACCESS to Guns!!!! The Mother had the Guns in the Newtown SHOOTING!!!
As usual, the NRA crowd shows up violently opposed to any studies of injuries caused by firearms for any reason, including the thought such research might improve public health (as in reduce firearm deaths.)
Apparently they have the "facts", even though they are not epidemiologists and could be considered, just possibly, biased in their approach to the issue.
jwight01,
blah, blah, blah, No Facts, blah, blah, blah.
What is the Requirement for all Health Care Providers and Medical Facilities to immediately report any or all "gunshot wounds" to the local Law Enforcement.
This is the big beef that I have. Controlling the flow of information is not a solution to any problem.
This is not a subject that doctors should be involved in, this is not a disease, it is not something that epidemiology is suited to studying. All it will tell you is that weapons can kill people.
It is a subject best left to criminologists. People in the medical field are not the people best suited to discuss issues of public safety, does a doctor know what is the best type of seat belt for example?
Certainly criminologists should refer to doctors say when issues of mental health come up, but the CDC is not suited to this task. Murder or self-defense is an intentional act, it's not a virus that spreads. It's not even like smoking, nicotine is addictive. After a traffic accident, you wouldn't call a doctor as an expert witness unless the driver was ill, sometimes these mass shooters are mentally ill but when it comes to general criminality they generally aren't.
There was a very interesting study published recently where the researchers looked at homicides and were able to predict where homicides would occur by using a disease model. I wouldn't call it a stretch by any means.
Doctors are concerned on matters of public health. And hundreds of thousands of firearm injuries and deaths annually is a concern of public health. Part of public health is injury prevention.
In gangs if somebody is murdered there is almost certainly going to be a retaliation against the rivals. A murder isn't necessarily a one-off event, even if it is intentional.
The gun nuts (you know who you are) think that if we have to register our guns then the government will end up taking them away. That's why there are no cars on the road these days - since states began requiring the registration of vehicles over a hundred years ago.
The only question for today is which is the louder sound in Congress, the whisper of money passed to legislators by the gun lobby - or the now silent echo of first graders in Newtown reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
Bill,
The right to drive a car isn't one of the foundational principles of the constitution and very few people use their car in self defense when their home is broken into.... Bad analogy. Look at the money passed to Congress by the doctors and pharmaceutical companies to keep the argument focused on guns, not the drugs the shooters were taking!
The second amendment "foamers" need to give it a rest.
to Got Aspirin
we would love to put it to rest, but the goal of the Liberals is to get ALL guns out of our society so they are the ones keeping this going.
Progressives ALWAYS try to get their foot in the door then enact more and more laws -
NEVER trust a Democrat with our 2nd Amendment rights !
NEVER !!!
What a moron. Keep drinking the gun manufacturing lobby koolaid, sucker.
to Pedestrian - a San Fran Liberal - probably a faggot too !! Go stick it somewhere warm and brown.
Another Obama recruit does this piece of SH*T make you sick or what?
You are here and commenting voluntarily. If it makes you sick LEAVE. There's a little X at the top of the window that will make it all go away.
Hey Foamers...go f*ck yourselves.
If these doctors want to learn about guns, let them join the military and get in the fight overseas. They can learn all they want to know about guns. And if the anti gun people don't like guns, just don't get one. If obamo don't like guns, he can go back to where he was born. Us true Americans like guns and used them to protect everyones freedom, foreign and domestic. If you don't like the USA like it is, get the heck out......
If you never fought for freedom, you give it a rest. You probably wouldn't know which end to point toward enemy.
Amen Brother
"Old Ironsides"
Explain how Feinstein came up with 187 guns in her first draft of "assault weapons" aspirin, you fk'n moron. You name 187 assault weapons. I'll give you two days, google all you want. Than shut the fk up about how they don't want ALL our guns.
She picked those guns by looking at pictures, not by any factual information on those guns!
Damn ped, if SF means San Fransisco you really need to learn about Sen. Feinstein, you do know who she is, right? She once said if she had the votes in the Senate she would ban em all, maybe you should stick to local issues, sucker indeed.
OK. Here are some of the problems I've got with the 2nd Amendment Foamers:
1) Apparently they can't carry on a conversation without resorting to name calling - POS, moron, faggot, etc.
2) They are selfish in that they believe their enumerated right is somehow inviolable. Mankind thought it up and mankind can change it.
3) Foamers have watched so much Fox News and listened to so much Rush Limbaugh that they seem incapable of thinking or writing or otherwise engaging in any kind of conversation that isn't demeaning to those who have opinions that are different from theirs. It seems their minds have withered like a dried prune. Much like their selfish, cold hearts.
4) Trying to talk to a Foamer is like talking to a crazy person. The conversation goes like this:
Rational Human: "We have a gun problem in this country."
FOAMER: THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!
Rational Human: "We have the highest death rate due to firearms of any other 1st world country."
FOAMER: DOCTORS KILL MORE PEOPLE THAN GUNS, BAN DOCTORS!
Rational Human: "Surely there must be some reasonable steps we can take to reduce the numbers?"
FOAMER: CARS KILL MORE PEOPLE THAN GUNS, BAN CARS!
Rational Human: "How about closing the gun show loopholes?"
FOAMER: THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!
.....and so on.......
5) Foamers actually think that their guns are needed for a coming insurrection against the government. Their circular logic is: "We need guns to protect us from the government that is coming to take away our guns." Uhm.....ok....
So until the Foamers get a grip on reality and recognize that there is a problem in this country that is - YES - the result of a flaw in our constitution, there really isn't much more that can be said.
They can all go screw themselves.
@got aspirin ,go overdose on a bottle of aspirin &watch your blood foam,
Nah...I'm good...
I came on here thinking I might find some intelligent discussion. I was wrong.
King George tried the same and thought the same and look what happened; it will happens again...our rights are not ENUMERATED they are inaleanable non negociable; you and stupids like you want to change it there will be blood for that stunt, probably yours mainly; you do not like America GET THE @!$%# OUT its been fine until the last 40 years and worst when a tyranny is upon us; there is not reason to be have with traitors and terrorists like yourself nd not rational human conversation as you, wanting to TAKE from me do not qualify as human in my book; come and take if you can but know i will take something from you too; can you guess what that is eh liberal retarded foamer??
I know why Got Aspirin? needs aspirin. ROTFLMAO.
Got Aspirin? was turned into a Obama Zombie.
Creation of an Obama Zombie. At the Nationwide President Obama Presidential Election Offices open since 2008 till 2012 Reelection funded by Billions USDs of Corporate Campaign Contributions (why Presidential Candidate Hillary Clinton filed against Candidate Obama Violating US Law, McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act) and now renamed the President Obama "Political Action Committees" to push President Obama's Agendas (Agendas not announced during the Reelection); at the President Obama Election (Political Action Committee) Offices you advertise "Free _____fill in the blank_____".
After you get people inside, you have them escorted by the Black Panthers into a private room. They get a "Free Proctological Examination", as bent over a table with an eye level photo of President Obama. During the exam, their feces are rammed into their cranium forcing their brains out thru their nose (you must make sure they are looking at President Obama's photo even if it means grabbing the hair on the back of their head). As they are muttering Ooohhh bbbaaahhhh mmaaaa, you hand them two "Free aspirins".
http://ctpatriot1970.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/obama-zombies-alt.jpg
Anyone that does not comply, is turned over to:
"President Obama, this is your Army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of b!tches out and give America back to an America where we belong," US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior during President Obama's Reelection Campaign. US Democrats demanding the elimination of the Republican Party.
President Obama addressed the crowd shortly after US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior. US Labor Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior not arrested for "Terroristic Threatening of US Citizens", "Conspiracy To Commit the Murder of US Citizens", "Homegrown Domestic Terrorism Against US Citizens", etc..
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/05/jimmy_hoffa_at_obama_event_on_gop_lets_take_these_son_of_bitches_out.html
"Chancellor Hitler, we are your Army. We are ready to march. All Loyal German's Must take back Germany from the Jews". Chancellor Hitler's Brown Shirts, Sturmabteilung, Armed Paramilitary; and his Political Labor Union, National Socialist German Workers' Party, Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei aka NAZI.
Chancellor Hitler Ordering the elimination of other Political Parties (and did by Armed Force of his armed private Army, 1933), US Democrats demanding the elimination of the Republican Party.
Come on Got Aspirin? let us hear you say Ooohhh bbbaaahhhh mmaaaa, so that you can get your "Free aspirin".
Got Aspirin:
Your analysis of 2nd Amendment right advocates is a little exaggerated and somewhat inaccurate.
Focusing on the "gun problem" to deter violence is narrow minded thinking. We have a violence problem in this country. Removing all of the guns is not the answer because you're still left with violent behavior. A rational human would say "Let's figure out why we have this violence problem and work to resolve it."
Due to our population size, we probably have the highest death rate due to car accidents, too. Again, if our murder rate is high, banning an instrument of death will not change the desire to murder; it would only change the method.
Again, pointless as those prone to violence will always find another way to accomplish their goal. We must find the reason for the violence if we are to change the need for violence.
The 2nd Amendment does say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Frankly, I believe all of the restrictions the government has placed on owning firearms has gone completely against the words and intent of the 2nd Amendment. The only way an amendment should be changed or altered is with another amendment, and to date, that has not happened.
There is a kernel of truth to that statement. Countries who ban their citizens from being armed are more likely to be dictatorships (example, countries of the Arab Spring). What government does not bite at the bit to control the masses? Restrictions are like a contagious disease; they always begin as innocuous and usually wind up as consuming; thus the fight to stop any restrictions.
It's sad that the NRA has convinced some people so thoroughly that us liberals want to take all the guns. I'm a very hard left liberal and I like going to the range to shoot with friends. Its enjoyable. I grew up with guns in the house. They were always kept in a safe unless we went to the range. Me and most of the folks who run in my circle just want there to be some basic guidelines - Universal background checks, proof you have a safe place to store your gun, a federally mandated minimal level of training for CCPs. It's really not asking much.
Then follow the laws and Constitution of this country and do it the proper way with an Amendment. As the 2nd Amendment is written, "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed". It leaves no exception.
oh please...men wrote it and men can change it....seriously....the constitution is NOT absolute and I have plenty of guns!!!
Where in my post did I suggest the Constitution is absolute. In fact, it can be changed with and only by another Amendment, which was my suggestion to those interested.
If people cannot understand and comprehend a simply phrased paragraph, written in the English language, it's no wonder this country struggles with confusion and discourse.
You're probably more proficient at gun cleaning than reading comprehension, so it's probably best for your sake, and the country's, to leave the care of the Constitution to someone else.
Debi-1314897:
If you are going to quote the Amendment, quote the entire thing.
Because of the casual way punctuation was used in the late 18th and early 19th century, the Amendment may very well have clearly intended it to mean that every able-bodied man was required to own a firearm in order to come to the common defense of his community (the bit about "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State"). In the later Eighteen-hundreds (post civil war) period) the Supreme Court decided that it meant individuals cannot be restricted from owning firearms. The decision was largely based on some states trying to enact laws restricting access to firearms by African Americans (usually freed slaves) by the resurgent white political leaders in the South.
I could have quoted the entire Amendment, but the discussion was regarding adding more restrictions when the Amendment clearly states "shall not be infringed".
It appears many people are confused or don't understand the words "shall not be infringed", so why waste the type.
@Debi -
Thank you for your reasoned and lucid response. Although my post may have been slightly exaggerated, I stand by the sentiment expressed. I’ll try to clarify a bit.
Reading your post, the first three points you make are variations on the “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people” argument. No rational human could deny that guns, of themselves, are inanimate objects incapable of killing anyone. However, guns make that work so incredibly easy that even a child can do it.
Few people have the stomach for knifing someone to death. Very few people would beat someone to death with a hammer or take a chainsaw to their neighbor’s dog. But with a gun, the act is so much simpler, so much easier to do…it’s just a click away. That ease and simplicity, I believe, increase the tendency to act. If something is very much harder to do, if there is the possibility of being injured, people think about it long and hard before taking action.
You are right. We do have a violence problem in our society and that is also something that needs to be addressed. My personal opinion is that, of course the representation of violence on television, movies and video games has played a large part in this. While I agree that it is very difficult to establish a direct causation for a particular act of violence, to say that what we see and hear on a regular basis has no effect on impressionable minds is to deny the efficacy of the entire advertising industry. Madison Avenue knows very well that what people see and hear repeatedly will change their behavior. We need to work on that, too, in the most serious and diligent way.
There are mental health issues as well that are contributing to the problem. The English professor at VPI in Virginia (the woman who tried to help the young man who went on a rampage there) said it succinctly, “In the end, a person’s access to mental health care needs to be greater than their access to firearms”.
You see, I think it is actually the proliferation of firearms in our society, the ridiculously easy access that poses a clear and present danger to our very society – more firearms is not the answer.
And finally, I understand the arguments for the second amendment. I understand the desire for governments to control the masses. However, the proliferation of firearms in this country is a much more immediate threat. Somebody in my neighborhood “going off” is more of a threat to me than “jack booted” thugs.
Thank you for the response, Aspirin, but even in your somewhat lengthy post, you acknowledge violence is the root of the gun problem, but as many in this country, are attempting to avoid the "real problem" by covering it with a band aid. The band aid (gun control) seems more vital to you than the cure (mental health).
As a country, we should be focusing and spending more time and money getting to and resolving the root of the problem so we don't need a band aid. And btw, any band aid is only a temporary fix.
Sorry Debi...it is not a bandaid. It is part of the solution..a big part.
Cheers.
Aspirin- Sounds like it could be the ol' "Ultimate Solution"??? Guns are used by criminals to commit criminal acts. Why don't we study the question of why criminals won't follow the laws already in place? Most "gun nuts" reasonably fear more government intrusion into their personal affairs. Federal and State bureaucracies are already bloated and running amuck, so lets create a new layer of bureaucracy to deteremine which guns lawabiding citizens can be trusted with and "inspect" their homes to make sure they are properly stored? No thanks and "Inalienable".... look it up!
Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Lol
Well here's another group of vultures that want to suck harder at the government tit...crying and whining as they attempt to start an unregulated flow of monies from the federal treasury into their pockets...and in 30 or 40 years they'll report back to congress that sun spots cause people to murder people...
Applying for federal research grants is a tremendously inefficient way to get rich. That's not the motivation.
Got aspirin the problem with your arguement is int the braoder picture. James Madison pushed the first 10 ammendments through the continental congress as the only way that the citizens of the new Republic could be protected from an overbearing and increasing fuedalistic federal government. James Madison argued that the USC was intended to develop an new form of government not seen before where the right of the government to govern came from the people not the other way around. These rights do not come from the government but from a higher source. If this POTUS and Congress or any other POTUS tries to alter the Bill of Rights then they will be opening pandora's box and a whirlwind will sweep across this land unlike one that has not occurred since 1776.
Oh don't be such a drama queen. The kind of gun control that we need can be done without changing the constitution, or banning guns, or taking guns away. The National Firearms Act of 34 and 68 is the model. All nice and legal.
DAVEY-That depends on your perspective. I din't trust most of our "Representatives" any farther than I could kick them (Meaning out of office)
The shooters at Columbine, Tucson and Virginia Tech did not use assault-style rifles. They used pistols. Doctors are not weapons experts nor violence experts. Rifles of all types are involved in 3.5% of the murders. Talk about majoring in the minors.
Some doctors are really not doctors. Some doctors were simply handed a diploma and told, "Go git 'em Tiger!" Just like a lot of old men lawyers from Harvard Law School that messed up our constitutional laws over the course of approximately 50 years - for the record. And you may quote me on this for all eternity until every single one of them is retired or dead (by natural causes of course - I wouldn't want to be misinterpreted here as endorsing that nasty old male lawyers that know nothing about the law should be shot)
I'm glad we're clear on that - and the FBI's got my back.
Yes- semi-auto pistols with huge clips. We should ban them too.
They don't have to be gun experts and they don't want to be. What they're asking for in particular is the right for pediatricians to ask parents about guns in their home. Those parents don't have to respond. However, if they do, this heads up from the pediatrician about making sure all guns and ammo are locked away could be the thing that makes them double check what they've done to make sure their toddler or tween doesn't have access to the weapons in the home without supervision. If that prompts even one young parent to buy a gun safe or check again that all guns are unloaded or whatever, that's at least one more kid a little bit safer. Any child's life is worth doing this. It will take time to see how effective such conversations are on a broad scale, but it's not as if a pediatrician talking to parents for a few minutes about precautions will cause any harm to citizens or the Second Amendment.
"Yes- semi-auto pistols with huge clips. We should ban them too."
Shows your ignorance of firearms. No pistol that I ever heard of uses clips. Magazines? Yes.
Isn't a magazine a permanent top loading clip-like device normaly found in bolt-action rifles?
A clip is a device that holds rounds of ammunition together for faster reloading into a revolver or the fixed magazine of a weapon. A magazine can be fixed (attached) to the weapon or detachable and holds the ammunition to feed into the weapon after reloading.
Don't confuse the anti-gun nuts Mike1328690.... They may have a break down and start to cry and wet themselves.
And YES, if you don't like guns and want to take them away from us law abiding citizens, YOU ARE A F****G NUT!!!!
Aspirin, I want you picked by the Obama/Feinstein Anti-Constitution brigade of chosen few who comes and collects them. Can't wait.
@ BW - Please see my post, 4.13 - I forgot #6 - Foamers are belligerent d*ckheads who, of all people, should probably NOT be allowed to own ANY guns.
got aspirin you are itching for a fight and waving a red flag in front of a bull. Your comments are inflammatory and on the verge of intending to insult every law abiding citzen that has a gun. If you ever served our nation in combat then that is one thing otherwise keep it to yourself. You have the right to your view but also have the right to be silent, suggest you use it.
John Q - I'm talking about 2nd amendment "foamers" as in foaming at the mouth - the people who live a second amendment lifestyle stockpiling guns and ammo and getting themselves all worked up over the "gummint", people who vote for politicians who talk about "second amendment solutions" to our political problems, people who think their right to own an arsenal exceeds the rights of individuals in the society to live without worrying that their neighbor might "go off" and use his legally acquired arsenal.
I've been listening to their tripe for FAR too long.
And for the record, JQP, I AM a law abiding gun owner.
Ban handguns.
Got aspirin it is because people like you and those today in government that WE citizens own guns, a right guarantee by a FLAWLESS constitution and the bill of rights which you or your government buddies will never be allowed to change!!
You seem an smart person the way you post here but your attacks on my liberties will be answered with the worst foam you have ever seen yet; you have no clue about what provocations you set comming here and attacking our god given rights eh like we do not have enough with our monkey in chief and his adnministration..the whole thing is simple; you thread on me, on us, you get that back to you to the power of 10!! now go drink your coolaide so you can keep producing garbage!
I called you stupid before but that was a mistake; to be stupid you have to have brains first!
Ha, ha, ha, sure you are. You keep your gun in a locked box also along with your high capacity magazines also; after you had your gun (penis) and high capacity magazines (testicles) surgically removed so that you cannot procreate anymore imbeciles.
This Is My Rifle This Is My Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U
You too takenaka. No Rosey Palm and her Five Sisters (Hand) to masturbate your gun (penis) or play with your high capacity magazines (testicles) that were surgically removed.
David...what are you...12?
ban takenaka and his 1st ammendment rights as he wants to take our 2nd ammendment rights ! if the 2nd falls ,all the others will follow
Guns kill 13,000 people per year.
Doctors kill over 150,000 people per year.
Let's discuss 'healthcare control'!!
Where did you obtain this statistic? Sounds too true!
Sounds like another desperate gun manufacturing lobby (NRA) lie. What's wrong - is the "Connecticut Effect" not dissipating fast enough for you knuckle-draggers?
From large soft drinks to large ammo clips the nanny state knows whats good for you.
Justis4U, He is probably very close with that figure. I watched a show and they were talking about how many die from infections people got at the hospital and the number would blow you away. plus operations gone wrong. Hell they can't even amputate the right limb. I think they have enough on there plate.
Nice attempt at deflection. What is your point, should we get rid of all the doctors? Is that what you want to do?Doctors also help with giving birth to millions of people each year and probably save the lives of hundreds of millions each year.
When a doctor does what he's supposed to, a life is saved or made better. When a gun does what its supposed to do a person dies.
to simplify for the simple minded: Doctor = life Gun = death.
These doctors are just after the government grant money for the studies, nothing more.
False numbers like that are why we should be doing research.
gun homicide victims in 2011 from the FBI - about 8,500
suicide victims of guns in 2010 from CDC - 19,392.
accidental victims of firearms in 2010 CDC - 606.
Homicide victims by firearms for 2010 from CDC - 11,078
Your 13,000 number is made up. I can only assume your other number is made up as well.
@ j add and Pedestrian
His other number is actually quite low. Nosocomial infections alone kill nearly 100,000 people a year (88,000 in 1995). Iatrogenic deaths are estimated to be anywhere from 200,000 to 700,000 people a year in the US. Look it up.
Lets ban doctors or at least witch doctors.
Dirp; when a firearm do what it suppose to do people die and also many others live because of it or are saved; if you do not believe me ask our military fighting overseas for all of us or perhaps police officers?
or maybe the many woman who shot her attacker in a home invasion? or many and many story out there that you liberals scum purposedly omit or seems to forget?
Go drink your kool aid together with Got Aspirin maybe you can fall in love with him and even marry him go have a life and let the thinking for people with brains you do not have
EDIT: Guns MURDER 13,000 people a year
Accidents, old age, cancer...NOT murder
But keep on your false analogies and fallacious reasoning if it helps you sleep at night.
This "13,000" statistic comes from the gun lobby. Since they managed to push through legislation to deny the right of doctors to ask patients about guns in their home (one can argue that this is an "infringement of the doctor's "First Amendment" right), the gun lobby gets to make up all kinds of statistics to fit their real agenda of more sales by the gun manufacturers.
Bill, What if your doctor asks you: "Mr. Crane, Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" You are guilty as soon as the question is asked, regardless of your response. THAT is what they are looking to do, when the good doctors get that box to check on their exam report. Why don't we look at how many patients die at the hands of their doctors, due to misdiagnosis or prescriptions of lawful medications that kill the patient. That might be a better area for inquiry for the medical profession if they truly want to protect the public. You don't hear a big clamor for that now DO YOU??
JKSB
Response: I have never assaulted my wife.
Life is not a series of "yes or no" questions, I hope you were joking with your comment JKSB. And again, MURDER by gun is different than dying of a heart attack, misuse of prescriptions or failure to save a life on a doctor's part. Illogical statements do not further the gun violence discussion.
You are free to lie to your doctor, the only people it hurts is you and your family.
Emotion BS used on the vulnerable. About 93 people die on our roads everyday, but nobody is using the children and the dead to get congressional action. If you libs are serious about saving the children, tell Obama to mandate horsepower and speed restrictions on car engines. That will never happen because Obama is a puppet of the auto industry.
There's a big difference. Deaths caused by car accidents can be studied and researched with federal funding in the US. This has resulted in significant improvements in vehicle design and safety features. Public-funded research into gun violence is prohibited in the US.
Alot of good the research has done. Cars still can go over 100 MPH. 34,000 deaths a year. We need speed control, and I'm not talking about speed traps. You are only allowed 5 bullets in NYC. How about you being allowed only 50 horsepower and a governor on the engine?
I am not advocating restricting car horsepower, only pointing out the absurdity of the anti-gun lobby. Here you have a simple way to save thousands of children a year by slowing cars down, and nobody pays any attention to it, or as in the case of Brisaber, is actually defending super fast cars when the stats clearly points toward the correlation between speed and dead children.
Another useless attempt at deflection.
A gun is a weapon designed to KILL. People who own and use them a KILLERS.
A car is a tool designed for transportation. Properly maintained and used, they do not kill.
Again, simple explanation for simple minded: Cars = transportation. Guns = death.
Guns = Defense = Save Lives........Property maintained and used, do not kill.
300 horsepower, 100 MPH fast cars not needed for transportation = 93 Deaths Per Day
JobSeeker, you are showing your ignorance. The research has done a lot of good. Highway death rates have for the most part come down significantly.
Repeat. 3000-pound hung of metal going 70 MPH or more kills 34,000 per year. No research needed to realize limiting cars to 40 MPH on the highways with engine governors will save thousands per year. Even you can understand that, JL. Why are you advocating the senseless slaughter of children?
Dirp, you dont want to own a weapon, dont, nobody is telling you too. Likewise, Dont dare tell me what i CAN OR CAN'T HAVE, OK. You are certainly no founding father, and neither are the rest of these politicians "THAT THINK THEY ARE".
At current trends it is projected that by 2020, gun deaths could outnumber deaths from automobiles.
The NHTSA reported that 3092 people died in automobile accidents caused by using cellphones. That is far more than died from "assault rifles" or just rifles in general. Something that will stop cellphones from working in a moving vehicle will save far more lives.
So now I defend superfast cars, simply because I say that gun violence should be studied? Sorry - I looked it over again and still can't see it. You're the one trying to divert the issue from studying gun violence to a rant about car deaths. All I said was that cars can be and are studied. But there are laws saying they can't study gun violence. How does that work out to be a defense of superfast cars?
And what current trend might that be? Last I checked guns deaths have been declining for the last few years. Btw JL auto related deaths increased last year according to a recent government report. Speed was the number one contributing factor in most accidents.
The fact is that a car is a tool that can be used for what ever the reason the person behind the wheel wants to use it for. A gun, hammer, knife, etc. are also tools and can also be used for what ever the reason the person behind the tool wants to use it for! So the end result and the common denominator is that it is not the tool, it is the fool behind the tool! So in the end, there should be no "assult" on gun owners what so ever!
I would also like to make another point... Myself standing behind my gun, I am incomplete control. Someone behind the wheel of a car is never in complete control because they have to consistently look out for the other guy that may make them swerve and hit someone else.
Therefore cars are more dangerous under any circumstance then guns are!
There is no "deflection" when comparing cars to guns and the people who make the comparison are not ignorant. Yes, cars are a transportation tool,and they are still perfectly useful for that at lower speeds. Yes, they have been studied and made safer over the years, but as the anti-gun crowd is fond of saying, we could do more. A governor on the engine and lower speeds would save many more lives. We won't do that of course because America simply doesn't want to be stuck driving 55. So, we sacrifice some lives willingly for the way we want something. I'm not saying I don't like fast cars, but let's be honest, we don't need them we want them. I can't say tolerating a few gun deaths because we want guns available is any worse than tolerating extra traffic deaths because we want our speed. It's been interesting the past few months finding out how many people who scream how saving lives is so important when it comes to guns don't find it as important when it means messing with something THEY want to be able to have.
My biggest objection to gun research is objectivity. Is the researcher really being objective and doing proper research or is it being fit to the answer they wanted in the first place?
dirp - when the black lab next door starts talking to me I'll let you know, mmmkay?
dirp is a closed minded moron. You can not argue with a closed minded moron because nothing goes in but sh*it just keeps pouring out!
Dirp and Got aspirin are the same idiot...couldnt realize it until I read more of his posts..
To end his discussion about vehicles, since most of you are not paying attention, that thing (2009 Supplemental Appropriations Act), that created the President Obama's "Cash for Clunkers Program" also states: Limitations on HP (Horse Power)(therefore limitations on maximum speed), Mandatory MPG (Miles Per Gallon) for manufacturers, etc., vehicles not meeting or exceeding the requirements destroyed, no private ownership of those vehicles ("car collections"), only museums with permanently disabled engines, effective by 2023 (10 years from now). Car collector Jay Leno (late night talk show host) almost flipped out.
As a WTF, why are children under the age of 21 (definition of a minor, with no responsibility or accountability as an adult) driving tons of metal.
Teen-Driver Car Accident Fatalities Increase Nationally.
I wonder if we accepted the argument about cars and did something (like studied it and increased safety) if the gun people would be like "Good, they fixed cars, lets get some gun control on the books now!!"
My guess...probably not. So how is that even an argument or support for anti gun control people?
yea doctors!. Now lets be good gun nuts and change the subject..
Doctors are some of the biggest crooks in the USA, just one notch under defense attorney's! They work for the all mighty dollar and nothing else! I trust doctors less then I trust the Government and I do not trust the Government one bit!
You grandpa are a closed minded, selfish, bias, liberal moron!
Do not fall for the drama.
Physicians earn a hefty salary sufficient to withstand conducting research on their own time and with their own money any hour of the day that they feel like it.
Justis4U, This doctor is clearly one of Obamas boy's another prop like people from Newtown, The military He has time to fly all over the country drumming up his scare tactics but has no time for the fiscal cliff or anything else he should be tending to. Absolutely the WORST president EVER.
The doctors have a point. A very sloppy message, but a point. We have good info on every way to die, except by a bullet.
Obama cant be the worst president as he would need to be a "president" first and he is not; what he is for sure is a fraud, a street agitator communist indoctrinated who is being put there by the big banks to advance the control agenda and to TRY to bring America to its knees. Obama is many things and he is nothing, he cant give an speech away from a teleprompter; he does not even own his name as he was born under different name and not in US. he is many things but what he is not and will never be is a US president. I do not get why our military would protect him; everyone by now knows who he really is
Where did you get that idea from.
Prisoner (former Private) Manning attempted to expose all the Illegal things President Obama's US Department of State was doing Worldwide.
General McKiernan attempted to warn all of you with his interview with Katie Couric of CBS News.
General McChrystal attempted to warn all of you with his High Level Staff of President Obama's US Civilian Political Appointees saying, "This Administration Does Not Know What It Is Doing". The President Obama US Civilian Political Appointees witnessed all the unnecessary deaths of US Citizens of the US Military due to President Obama as Commander In Chief Orders.
Secretary of Defense Gates tendered his Letter of Resignation in protest to President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered Reduction In Forces of 90,000 US Military and the Unemployment of 108,000 DOD US Civilians. Translation: for remaining US Military Personnel more deployments with longer tours (more suicides, domestic violence, divorces, etc.).
General Petraeus tried to warn you about President Obama's corrupt Political Appointees Holbrooke and Eikenberry spending Billions USDs with nothing being built nor done, President Obama's Secret Wars (not Iraq nor here) and about Operation Neptune Spear (not the President Obama Reelection Propaganda); but, he accepted President Obama's Deal to become President Obama's Director of the CIA so that President Obama could get General Petraeus' Letter of Resignation as Commander here at Afghanistan.
General Ham, tendered his Letter of Resignation as demanded by President Obama after General Ham was outspoken about sending his US Military Forces of US AFRICOM less than 2 hours away by slow propellor driven C-130 or US Military Helicopters to rescue the US Citizens at the US Consulate at Benghazi Libya during the over 7 hour attack. Or at the very least send precision ground support AC-130s or Armed MQs (Drones) that were still there from Operation Odyssey Dawn and Operation Unified Protector.
Secretary of Defense Penetta tendered his Letter of Resignation after President Obama as Commander In Chief stated a 11% US Defense Budget Cut, with Secretary of Defense Penetta stating, 2012, "A 10% Defense Budget Cut will result in a Million US Civilians becoming Unemployed". And President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered the change to the US Military Mission from capable of conducting Two Wars and Contingency Missions (including United Nation's Missions) Simultaneously to One War or a Contingency Mission; translation a 50% Reduction in US Military Capabilities (meaning a 50% Reduction of US Military Personnel). 2013 in an interview Secretary of Defense Penetta indicated that afterwards he "will work on his (Walnut) Farm with a different kind of Nut".
Have you ever looked at the US Military Officer's Oath of Office. Our Oath of Public Office (US Military term "Officer") is to the US Citizens via the US Constitution; notice who is missing from that US Military Officer Oath of Office (the Enlisted and Non Commissioned Officer Oath has the President):
"I, ____— (SSN), having been appointed an Officer in the (Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, Navy) of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of ____— do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the Office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."
For US Military Officers there is also the US Congressional Commissioning Certificate that has the written Duties of the Office of a US Military Officer, as the Confirmed by US Congress, a Representative of the US Citizens of the US Military (Representative of the Enlisted, Non Commissioned Officers, and Subordinate Officers. Mine says Warrant Officers also. That was before Warrant Officers became Commissioned Officers).
This is why President Obama could not get General McChrystal for Insubordination per UCMJ; as General McChrystal repeatedly attempted to tell the US Public after the US Politicians refused to listen about the matters that will and later did result in the unnecessary Deaths of US Citizens of the US Military and US Ally Canadian Military Forces. So in order to get General McChrystal's Letter of Resignation President Obama had to make a Deal for General McChrystal to Retire as a Four Star General instead of a Three Star Lieutenant General. What General McChrystal should have done was demand a Public US Congressional Hearing that would have made Public everything about "This Administration Does Not Know What It Is Doing" that would have destroyed President Obama's Political Career; but, General McChrystal being a Loyal Registered Democrat accepted President Obama's Deal.
One of them also tried to warn all of you about the loss of the US Military Logistics Support Bases at Pakistan due to President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies resulting in the United Nation's Mission at Landlocked Afghanistan becoming unsupported, and the UN, US, NATO, etc. Military Forces must abandon US Ally Afghanistan by 2014.
Give it a rest eh? When? When they make every firearm illegal? Does writing more laws make you safer? Anita is correct. Using emotions to pass laws is just another over reaching liberal BS Tactic.. Less than 5% of the violent crimes are committed with firearms. Cripes Dr's kill more people than we will ever know. Ooops can't talk about that. What ever happened to those guns sold during ATF's Fast & Furious operation? How can Obama be serious..when that happened during his tenure.. Enforce the laws on the book.. No Plea Bargaining either.
Agree !
A simple way around the doctors is to lie whenever they ask about guns in your home -
just say no - they don't really care as long as they get paid for the office visit -
Good OL' Dog, The point is just how low is this sneaky bastard going to go?
How many of the elite in this country hires armed guards for personal defense for themselves and their familieis. But then they turn around and say that we gun holders are the nutso ones. The profit from making movies and video games that glorify violence, promte drug use in their movies and songs but then poin the finger at the law abiding citzen that is just trying to protect their familes from their patrons. So who are perps, again?
The elite is being afraid for a long time and with the latest events rightfully so they should be trembling as no gun or security will ever protect them from people's justice. We are a nation of warriors and these usurpers of our liberties will not prevail!!
Feinstein assault rifle ban, The Original, enacted 1994. Columbine 1999.
How about her concealed carry license?
That being the CCP she got when there was a complete ban? Yeah, that was special, she hates guns, but went ahead and made an exception for herself, a true upstanding defender of our constitution right there.
...and her many weapons..that witch may she burn in hell
As medical professionals who witness first hand the effects of gun violence upon the victims who are wheeled into hospital emergency rooms every day, one would think even the slobbering members right wing lunatic fringe would listen to their advice. Sadly, the legions of "gun enthusiasts" who are resisting rational gun control legislation and who refuse to engage in a constructive conversation on the subject are going to invent preposterous lies that satisfy their insane fantasies, but not the pressing needs of our country. They are becoming increasingly irrelevant and ultimately will be cut out of the process, as well they should. Gun control legislation is coming and they will just need to deal with it. When the time comes, normal Americans will just have to deal with their whining, but we will feel safer.
Any thoughts on the American troops coming home in body bags and wheel chairs for Obama's war in Afghanistan...seems like Obama is a gun nut...
My thoughts are that the war in Afghanistan is irrelevant to the discussion and your desperate attempt to misdirect the conversation should make it clear to any thinking person you cannot defend your position. Fail.
So the American lives lost in Afghanistan are irrelevant because their dead bodies don't fit into your political agenda...how pathetic an excuse for a human you are...
What advise? Wheel someone into the emergency room with a 9mm bullet wound does it make a difference if it came out of a Tek-9, Calico, Glock or Berretta? The job of doctors is to fix the damage NOT opine on its cause or likely public impact.
And the public health 'issue' is the same excuse used against cigarettes and Bloomberg's soda ban. Sorry I'm not going to allow anybody to limit my rights based on bogus numbers and political spin.
How about you worry about the small fact the the US is currently running an 800% debt to income ratio. Anything above ~35% for an individual means that you get slammed for borrowing (if you even can). Even without counting outstanding debt the budget is running 200% debt to income. How long can you live spending twice as much as you take in? Are you ready for $1000/gallon gas?
Afghanistan isn't Obama's war. It is America's war. Or have YOU forgotten the 2,996 innocent lives lost on Sept 11th because of those lunatics in Afghanistan?
Sailcat is right, religious lunatics killing our armed soldiers in a combat zone have nothing to do with the discussion about Americans killing each other in America.
@ sailcat: those of us who keep weapons do not refer to them as 'guns', it makes you sound like a mental defective (I was afraid the word 'retard' would offend your delicate sensitivities). Military professionals see the devestating effects of (your words) 'gun violence' day in, day out. Don't need a doctor to tell me there is violence & mental illness in the world. BTW, you can rant about 'gun enthusiasts' til Jesus comes back, but tomorrow, I have to clear my irrigation ditches. Does that make me a 'shovel enthusiast'? Beside the fact that your argument is based on exaggeration, if you did not take the oath then, your argument is irrelevent AND invalid. As the 2nd Amendment goes, so goes the Constitution. And when that day falls - well, I won't care, because it will fall over my dead body.
But it is not rational, it is not based upon fact. The are calling these weapons Assault, that is a mis-representation and yes GSWs are horrific and IEDs tear a human to pieces, but we don't need studies-talk to the Military every solder who is killed in combat is studied at Dover Airbase, all there equipment and clothing they were wearing goes with them. They study they effects of the IEDs on the body, did the body armor fail etc... The issues is the doctors are out of their lane, in the film comparing a .223 hollow point to a .22 pl inking round is apples and oranges. So that only tells people in they do not have a clue. Maybe they should put the money toward curing some of the horrific diseases. THe films shown in the Senate were military automatic weapons, not AR-15 semi-autos. When they start dealing in trues gun owners will come to the table!!!!!!!!!
When you give up your liberity for security you will have no more of either one.
Sailcat you and people like you and your monkey in chief Obama are the only real failures!
@Sailcat2064101 go play with your "pink flamigo" and barbiedolls !!!
Sailcat-That's right "feel safer". but reality is another thing. If you want to "feel safer" go see your doctor and get a pill, that's what they are good at!
Excuse me, Mr. Filthy Rich Living Like a King Profiting from Sickness Doctor, but keep you damned nose out of my Constitutional Right.
Agree !!
@ OT DEMO---- VERY GOOD. They need to be put in their places too.
DITTO !!
There it is. Hey dbcooper - all the way brother. 1/325, 69 - 72.
I agree with these doctors and it should be discussed.
Nova(PBS) had an excellent documentary the other night about mental illness and violence, the experts said that detecting violent behavior and mental illness early will cut down on rampages like we saw in CT and CO. Doctors need to know if a child is unstable so they can be treated, once they get to prison it's too late.
To add: banning assault rifles will do nothing to prevent crime and murder, less than 2% of violent crime is committed with assault rifles.
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/publications/Firearms_Report_09.pdf
Good luck in getting the insurance companies to work with the patients & doctors to get that referal.
Yep, that is why so many children are on unnecessary drugs. Is it ADD or a kid that is active and has an imagination? Today, we are being sold drugs to make our eyelashes thicker (may cause blindness), Yesterday women were sold cures for their menopause (likely to cause breast cancer, happened to my mom) The last couple of times I went to the Dr. I was told I needed an MRI. I am done with that. My problems were things they have dealt with for generations. They didn't need micro waves shooting through their bodies to be diagnosed. They didn't have to swallow some toxic sludge to make their organs glow.
there are NOT assault rifles; that is a term made up by the communists who pretend to control us; there are semi-automatic weapons!! do not give into the hive using the enemy's terms educate all you can to see if we can defeat our enemies in the political arena not in a battlefield!!
there are NOT Assault weapons owned by US civilians, only semi-automatic weapons. period!!
PJ,
I'd rather have someone on meds than kill innocent people, the only other option is to lock them up in a mental hospital. Mentally ill people not on meds/counseling is a disaster waiting to happen, on the other hand I don't want violent criminals on the street either.
Shawn-Don't you follow the news? It is the freakin' meds that they are on that cause them to commit mass murder!!
There are no laws that "limit medical research", what there are are laws that prevent the government from funding such research. If doctors want to engage in such research out of their own pockets they're welcome to do so. I don't see any of them stepping up to the plate.
They're just looking for government grants, which, with the government in the financial mess it's in, they should not get.
Give me a break, J Clarke. Do you do work for your own job not only unpaid but of your own expense? Of course you don't. (I'm assuming you have a job. Risky on my part.)
If you don't see the value of medical research, please don't see a doctor. PLEASE. Our system is overburdened enough without blowhard know-it-alls like you bogging it down further, going repeatedly and asking for your doctor to approve your disability check. And clearly you think that what medical research has achieved so far has little to offer you, so it would be little sacrifice on your part, right? So if you become ill or developing some serious problem or injury, just stay home. Your beloved guns could keep you company.
Exactly, thats all they want from it.
There are lots of laws. Can't do research on children and babies, can't make people sign away their rights, can't test a drug on humans without animal testing, must have a testing protocol, etc etc etc.
The CDC is forbidden from funding gun violence research. This happened in 1996 at the behest of the NRA and passed by a GOP Congress. They don't even use the word "firearm" in their reports anymore.
There is more money going to deaths by syphilis (a rare way to die) every year than there has been to gun violence research over the past decade. Being shot is a really common way to die, especially if you're young.
He is just looking for a government grant to help supplement his adovacy with our tax dollars. Just another parasite.
maybe he could just look at chicago or washington dc where they have almost total gun control over law abiding citizens, but not the elite.
I'm not familiar with any people getting rich off of research grants. I am familiar with politicians getting rich off of the gun lobby and NRA though...maybe you're confused about the motivation?
A former boss of my wife was the principle investigator for researching a type of kidney cancer. His salary came from a research grant he wrote. He has an MD (doctor) in pathology (specialist doctor) and a PhD in molecular biology. He paid himself around $40k a year. He could have easily given up the life of a researcher and made $250k+ as a pathologist.
Politicians get richer off the AMA and big pharmaceutucal companies, than the lowly NRA!
And Big Oil and Big Farm...but what does that have to do with a discussion on gun violence? None of your ideas were talked about in the article, JKSB
What are doctors going to accomplish. A study on gun violence is a good idea: where, when, under what circumstances, locations, causes, weapon used (if you are interested look up how many people are killed with hammers). BUT, do you really think a whaco is going to admit to having a gun to a doctor; only honest law abiding citizens may consider an answer to the questions. Do doctors ask regarding beating up a spouse : "do you ever think about beating your spouse." The nut cases are not going to say "yes." Lots of stupid ideas every day. Before any law is passed on anything we need to ask; what is it intended to accomplish, are there potential unexpected consequences; who is going to enforce it?
A big one you omitted from the list, whether the person was intoxicated. We care about that when it comes to cars and beating women, but not when it comes to firing a gun.
To me, it is a first and fourth amendment issue. A doctor and patient have a right to privacy and a doctor has a right to speak their mind and ask questions. Nobody is going to make people tell the truth, just like you can lie about not eating a big mac twice a day.
Icono-BINGO! No one ever looks past the end of their nose at unintended consequences!
Great another multi-million dollar useless survey/research, why not do a study on useless government surveys/research
I personally liked the waste of money with the shrimp on a treadmill
Lets spend millions to research why Obama ate his dog
and ignored... too bad vik, I enjoyed your rants.
to Iconoclast - exactly right !
So far the unintended consequences of Liberals on their soap boxes include -
more applications for firearms permits than ever, more sales of AR-15 type rifles and all other guns and ammo too, more people owning more guns than ever, higher profit for gun and ammo manufacturers, a growing list of gun and ammo manufacturers who won't sell to law enforcement in any state that infringes on 2nd Amendment rights -
I am sure more unintended consequences will follow -
Yes, Liberals are doing a great job !!! LMAO !!!
"Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the constitution by claiming it's not an individual right or that it's too much of a safety hazard don’t see the danger of the big picture. They're courting disaster by encouraging others to use this same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they don't like."
- Alan Dershowitz
Doctors with something valuable to say, and legitimate statistics -- yet all the gun nutz can do is foam at the mouth and sputter all their 2nd Amendment crap. This is NOT a 2nd amendment issue -- it is simply trying to reverse the insane gun culture that the NRA and the gun nutz have created. When someone you love is affected by gun violence, just remember that it's the gun nutz and the NRA that want it that way.
You're the one sputtering.
Hey, sputter this. If you can pull the trigger on a 9mm pistol one time per second, you can only pull the trigger on an AR-15 one time per second. Of course that is your next target, ban pistols.
Now you're talkin' Job, handguns too! They are designed for killing people at close range. Basic hunting rifles and shotguns only.
Leroy....Thank you for confirming the left's ultimate goal. No more BS about how the libs are not trying to take your guns away.
Valid......You need to say something valid. You make no sense.......
Leroy, you are wrong. Handguns are not designed for killing people... they can be used that way though. They are designed for PROTECTION at close range; wether animal or human. There are forrests where campers are encouraged to carry a gun to defend against bear attacks. You think it's easier to carry a rifle, a shotgun, or handgun? How about lighter, faster use... because the bear may not say "Hey get your rifle ready... here I come!!"
This is a 2nd ammendment Right. Can you say Congress shall enact no laws that infringe upon these laws. BTW I prefer my 54 caliber Henry over anything y'all got.
the second ammendment is not crap but you sir sure are
Brent how does a pistol protect you from a bear (or anything else)? "Hey Bear, I have a gun...go away!"
I think it is more like "Sh!t, a bear...bang, bang, bang" Maybe you scare him off, maybe you hit and injure, maybe you kill. Guns were invented to KILL efficiently, faster than a bow or knife, lighter and it takes less skill for the average owner.
Please don't fool yourself with the lies. Guns are meant to destroy, that was rule #1 in hunters safety along with treat every gun as if it is loaded and be sure of your target and beyond... why those rules?
Because guns kill. Those rules help you from negligently (not accidentally) killing someone.
Dr. Begg,
It is unethical for your to bring your own political agenda into your professional practice and certainly inappropriate to bring your practice, along with your personal agenda, into the confines of my residnece. Your job is to heal and not to proactively involve yourslef with non medical issues without consent.
Actually, he's perfectly at liberty to do all these things. Last I checked, this was still a free country, despite Repugnicans and Tea Traitors doing their best to push their provincial vision onto everyone.
You gotta be kidding! These are the guys that repair gunshot wounds, so how is that not a medical issue? While it's a strange idea for a doctor to ask about gun ownership, it is about an epidemic, a serious medical situation, and heartbreak that doctors deal with. It is NOT a political issue, if someone gets shot, it's a medical problem. It happens too often. Just today a Connecticut woman shot her two grandchildren then herself. Her daughter said she had mental health issues AND a gun. Now who might have reasonably intervened here? Maybe a doctor?
The number of injuries (and deaths) annually from chainsaw accidents is 28,000 (http://www.elvex.com/facts08.htm). This figure is very close to the total number of injuries (and deaths) from firearms annually.Thus, shouldn't chainsaw injuries should also be classified as an "epidemic?". I own a chain saw. Shouldn't my physician be equally concerned about that risk?
Al Kyda your name handler says it all
You might want to double check those numbers. 28,000 is the number of injuries from chainsaw accidents. Death while operating a chainsaw is extremely rare. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15027558) Meanwhile the 32,000 number for firearms is not injuries + deaths. It is deaths alone. The number of injuries from firearms is closer to 73,000 for a total of injuries+deaths of 100,000 annually. (http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html)
Prag, but then tap wouldn't have a defensible argu.... oh wait, I see what you did there. Nice play.
Why study gun violence alone? Why not study violence as a whole? Because they can then say its a public health issue and call for weapons bans and confiscations. Problem is the people funding this want a specific outcome and will ensure they get it by creating roadblocks for the researchers.
Another Lefty puppet, I bet he was offered a job in the adminastration for his lying testimony.
I will put this in english....We need to study gun violance in order to have even better lie,charts,graphes and time to leak or made up findings to the press and then inform everyone that we have proof for a gun ban!
Just like all that proof they had on global warming and we would all be dead in 10 years,etc!
If you make me an outlaw then be ready for a fight on a nation building scale!
You're not an outlaw. You're an idiot. Have a nice violence-filled day.
Patriots for peace why do you have to insult why can you not just voice your disagreement with others that you do not agree with. Many of us Veterans fought so that our way of life could be preserved. You have the right to voice your view however you do not have the right to insult some one that you do not agree with. Have anice day in a nation that we fought to protect and preserve.