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Subscribe to RSSBritons were horrified by a report released on Tuesday that documented "truly dreadful" care at an English hospital, from patients left moaning in their own waste to family members forced to bring in food.
British Prime Minister David Cameron said he would press for a culture change in his country's treasured National Health Service to give patients a bigger say in their care-- and he’ll get American help to do it.
The report says patients were ignored as they pleaded for clean sheets and even water, and it says certainly thousands died from the neglect. Britons, who take huge pride in their health service, were shocked by the findings of the report.
"Many will find it difficult to believe that all this could occur in an NHS hospital," Cameron said Tuesday.
While it was just one hospital – in the central English town of Staffordshire – Cameron said he couldn’t believe the problems were restricted to a single facility.
“What happened at The Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust between 2005 and 2009 was not just wrong, it was truly dreadful. Hundreds of people suffered from the most appalling neglect and mistreatment,” Cameron said.
“Calls for help to use the bathroom were ignored and patients were left lying in soiled sheeting and sitting on commodes for hours, often feeling ashamed and afraid,” reads the report, written by lawyer Robert Francis.
“Patients were left unwashed, at times for up to a month. Food and drinks were left out of the reach of patients and many were forced to rely on family members for help with feeding,” added Francis, who was appointed to investigate the hospital in 2009 after it showed a higher-than-usual rate of deaths.
Francis said it would not be possible to say just how many patients died from the neglect and poor conditions. Many British newspapers ran lurid accounts of conditions at the hospital, but Francis said he couldn't document some of them, such as reports about thirsty patients drinking from flower vases.
“The inquiry found that a chronic shortage of staff, particularly nursing staff, was largely responsible for the substandard care,” he added. “Staff who spoke out felt ignored and there is strong evidence that many were deterred from doing so through fear and bullying.”
Cameron said he would get help from an American – Dr. Donald Berwick, who was appointed President Barack Obama’s administrator of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, but who finally stepped down after Republicans in Congress refused to confirm his appointment. Many Republicans were infuriated by Berwick’s praise of Britain’s NHS.
Berwick, an expert in healthcare quality, is now at the left-leaning Center for American Progress. He has recommended changes in quality after a series of reports have shown that anywhere between 100,000 and 200,000 Americans die every year from mistakes and neglect in the U.S. healthcare system.
Britain’s National Health Service is such a source of pride that it featured prominently in opening ceremonies for last year’s Olympics. U.S. supporters of healthcare reforms have pointed to its lower costs and to reports that show Britons are healthier than Americans. Critics of Obama’s approach have expressed doubts that Britain’s system works better than the U.S. system.
“I love our NHS, I think it is a fantastic institution, a great organization, it says a great deal about our country and who we are,” Cameron said Tuesday.
The report blamed cost-cutting for many of the problems at the Staffordshire hospital. Britain’s hospitals are run by trusts, which are a type of public corporation, with outside boards.
“Problems at the Trust were exacerbated at the end of 2006/07 when it was required to make a 10 million pound ($16 million) saving,” the report reads. “The Board decided this saving could only be achieved through cutting staffing levels, which were already insufficient.”
Cameron said boards need to be held more responsible for the hospitals they oversee, and patients need a chance to speak up when something goes wrong. But he also blamed Britain’s Department of Health, nursing organizations and doctors for failing to act.
He said there were three problems in the NHS as a whole. “First, a focus on finance and figures at the expense of patient care,” he said. “Second, there was an attitude that patient care was always someone else’s problem….Third, defensiveness and complacency.”
Health experts have identified similar problems at U.S. hospitals. The 2010 Affordable Care Act will gradually change the way hospitals are paid by Medicare and other government health insurance plans, to take patient satisfaction into account. Hospitals will also be penalized if patients get sick again too quickly after they are discharged or if they acquire infections while in the hospital.
John Newland in London contributed to this story
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Is this the direction you want the USA to go in? We suffer terrible medical treatment at the hands of our "No Hope Service" (NHS). Don't let your President con' you into this sort of socialism.
Right, just twist all the related concepts together into one big mishmash, that way the right-wing blowhards on the radio can spew some more made-up lies. Please.
No one, not even the most left-wing Democrats, are advocating state-run hospitals. Guaranteed health insurance for everyone is the goal. That is a far different endpoint than the British system.
We have too much health insurance. I guarantee prices will rise through the roof once everyone is insured!
Dan, while you are correct if you say that just about EVERYONE distorts health care in the US. My concern is that the President presented the "Affordable Health Care Act", but did very little to make health care affordable. He did in fact start us down a road to a single payer system, and I believe to a state run health care system.
If you look at insurance companies asking patients to go to a substantially less expensive hospital for certain elective surgery's is an example of the way we should be going. The cost of Lazik surgery has dropped dramatically because there is competition for the business as it is not paid for by insurance. The more we just give something to people, with no buy in from them, the more they will use it which will just drive the cost up.
I would suggest that insurance policies have high deductibles. Couple this with HSA's which could be funded in a number of ways. Money in these accounts, unlike flex spending, would be the persons. They could accumulate these funds, tax free, over the years to be used for retirement or for any future health care needs. Can you imagine do I really want to take my kid to the ER, because of a cough, and spend that money that I could keep in that HSA or can I wait until the walk-in is open?
What is being presented by the President is not a cost saver, it is just the first few steps of a government controlled health care system.
The problem with "Guaranteed insurance for everyone" is who will harbor those costs? The United States currently administer several broken systems for health care. The Social Security Administration cannot even manage dignified care across the board for the senior citizens who have paid in over the course of a lifetime. Our States are charged with medicaid, some stated do a better job then other so our Federal Authority decides to interfere and impose across the board requirement when states need to be given the flexibility to work with their individual populations of need. The VA can't even provide reasonable dignified care across their system for those who have served our country. What makes you think that our Government getting involved further into the US medical care quagmire is going to offer any sort of reasonable health service to those in need?
The is your health care on government. UK isnt exactly a backwards, 3rd world toilet country. But govt control is govt control.
You do realize that an insurance company only makes money by not paying for healthcare. If it comes down giving you the appropriate care and meeting Wall Street's expectations along with ensuring obscene bonuses for management do you really expect that they are going to do the right thing? Do you really trust someone who gets a bonus for steering you to a hospital that cant handle your problem but is cheaper?
You are just advocating a form of rationing. Of course instead of going to the public good savings generated by this form of rationing goes to insurance company profit & bonuses.
Rev...so here is the thing...Insurance Companies are also tasked with making relationships that control the cost of care for their clients. I can go to hospital A for an elective procedure and it will cost me $10,000 or I can go to hospital B, where my surgeon has privileges, and it will cost me $1,500. Any way you slice it, as the client I am paying less by taking their recommendation on the Hospital. Now if I find that my Surgeon does not have privileges or that there are health risks associated with that hospital then the Insurance company will offer another option or attempt to negotiate a lesser fee at the first hospital. It isn't about rationing it is about paying a reasonable fee for services rendered and having major medical issues covered without it costing a life time of savings.
Try getting Medicare to work with a covered person on choice of provider. If medicare doesn't cover it you are just out of luck.
Over the years I've heard nothing but horror stories about the British National Health Care system. It seems the severe shortcomings have finally been outed.
Yes, more people in the US need access to better care, but socialism is not the way to go. The money runs out and all parts of it fail. Look at every socialist country in Europe as evidence.
Read closely: "Health experts have identified similar problems at U.S. hospitals. "
And we spend more than 3x on healthcare per person than UK does.
So this is what WE have to look forward to!!!
We already have it except in our case it's done by private corporations rather than public employees. Your criticism is a red herring. The trick is to design it properly and have a proper amount of oversight (what apparently failed in this instance). I worry that anything that has 'profit' in it is eventually going to be subject to sneaky little things to increase the almighty dollar put into pockets.
correction: we have two many health insurance CEOs and too many people without insurance (illegal aliens, for example) who get heatlh care and leave the bill for you and me...
This story has to be Reichwing propaganda.
Everyone knows this could never happen in a hospital system ran by the government.
That will be us in 20 years. Except we'll be worse because our Fed Gov't doesn't know how to run a cash-for-clunkers program... let alone an entire heathcare system.
A year ago I had to have emergency surgery and a long hospitalization for infection after my doctor discovered an abdominal abscess, ready to burst, that was the size of a tennis ball. My "insurance" company, Blue Cross, paid $1200 toward the bill. This left me with $18,500 to pay out of my own pocket. By the time Blue Cross got done with their deductibles, items not covered, etc, I wondered why I even had the insurance. I did get one thing right, though. Blue Cross is no longer my insurance provider and never will be again. I would have been better off putting my premiums into a savings account than handing it over to those greedy crooks.
Yes Marty, and that is called the free market. You are able to choose your provider... and go with an insurer and program that is best suited for you. If insurance companies do this regularly, more people like you leave them, and then they go out of business. It's called accountability. The Fed Gov't, on the other hand, is untouchable. I'm not saying that the free market system is perfect, but it's the best system out there. I'll take accountable private industsry over protected public servants any day.
Yes Max, read VERY closely: "Health experts have identified similar problems at U.S. hospitals"
Just who are these so-called health experts? One of Obama's advisors? A staffer at NBC who is tasked with promoting the network's leftist agenda? If the article doesn't identify who the "experts" are that identified such problems, along with other experts who disagree so that we have the fully story, at least that aspect of the article has no credibility.
@Realist17...My thoughts precisely. Many average Americans who have experienced our healthcare system first hand must be thinking...really? You're going to get help from our American Experts? The same experts that have been cutting staffing, cutting wages and benefits for years? Brilliant!
I received this kind of treatment from a hospital in CT, as well as nurses forgetting to give me medications. When I complained to the doctor seeing me, he just laughed.
Yes Realist, you're one sided statement of one sidedness really makes sense! Good for you on being a Republican though! With all those letters in your parties name, I can see why you joined the TEA party!
Now, on a true REALIST note, Realist is partially right. Who are these advisors who say there are "similar conditions found in the US"? It must be Obama's people or NBC's staff! Have you ever been to a veteran's hospital? Have you ever worked with a senior citizen on trying to get coverage for a necessary operation that they can't afford and isn't covered under their mediocre med supp plan because they couldn't afford a Plan F, yet made too much money for the truly "free" medicare everyone seems to think costs so much to fund? NO! I can tell you haven't or you wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement shying towards the idea that our private healthcare system is SOOO much better than that in England. If NBC is such a leftist station, why would they even run a story on their own front page stating that a government funded healthcare system is a bad idea? It's not! My tax dollars are already paying for illegal immigrants to come into to public hospitals, not give their name, not have a SS#, get better healthcare than I do with my $1,100 a month health insurance, and leave WITHOUT PAYING! Where do you think those charges are made up? Do you really think the tax money alone truly pays those bills? NO! $68 billion is what is spent in healthcare alone each year on illegal immigrants! That could be a health insurance subsidy to EVERY US citizen of $215 each year! WOW! Yet, everyone thinks it's Obama that is running up healthcare expenses, greedy doctors, or worthless private healthcare companies. COME ON! You're a sheeple like the rest of them!
Obamacare: According to the Congressional Research Service: "Unauthorized (illegal) immigrants are expressly exempted from the mandate to have health insurance and, as a result, cannot be penalized for noncompliance." they can still be treated at the ER. So illegal immigrants get health care without paying for it, but citizens face the choice of either buying expensive health insurance or paying a tax. The cost of illegal immigrants‘ health care in the emergency department of hospitals will be shifted to Americans with insurance. Great........so nothing has changed then with Obamacare except for us hardworking americans who already have taxes taken out are now forced to get insurance so we can help pay for the illegals.
what the heck is the deal: I cannot know from your post if you are utting the veterans hospitals down or what you are saying about them. I have been giong to the VAMC in Spokane, WA and now in La Jolla,CA and have othing but praise and admiration for all who work there. Yes at times the wait may be a little longer than anticipated, but it is because the doctor had to invest more of his time with the paitent he is currently seeing. So as far as I am concerned, the VAMC isdoing one hell of a job for us vets.
Do we really believe this doesn't happen in the US already too?
And the reason ACA didn't have cost controls is because the republicans didn't want them and he was trying to get their votes.
Befuddled: Please explain to me exactly how socialism is failing in the netherlands and sweden? The answer is it's not failing at all. In fact people there are well taken care of by their government. OUR govt and OUR elite are the ones causing this it has nothing to do with a system of govt.
baltics: i think the differences lie in which hospital you go to maybe... I worked at the VA of Fresno County and all the patients i talked to hated it. It was understaffed and took wayy to long to get in for appointments. Doctors rarely had time to go through patient files because of this causing them to prescribe prescriptions together that shouldn't be mixed and led to my grandfathers early death from a toxic liver. They prescribed so many conflicting medications and my grandfather blindly trusted them which is his fault as well. Where was the accountability there? with the doctors and pharmacists but no one paid or lost their job and they do this everyday. Maybe you have had better experiences but for many, the VA just blows.
I applaud their effort and their openness in this scandal and I truly hope that they can first and foremost correct the errors of their system. Why in the world would any patient be denied water? That is such a basic need and unless they are grossly understaffed should be a basic job function.
I do believe that perhaps Prime Minister Cameron's quote was ill placed given that people were denied the very basic elements of life in this hospital not even getting to the whole hospital care aspect.
I truly hope this is not the direction the US is going. While living in England I often wondered why the NHS did not contract with private hospitals for their over flow. There seem to be many gaps in the NHS system and yet the private Physicians we had were tremendous and the care in the Private Hospital we used while living in England was exceptional.
That's because you had the money (or private insurance) to pay for it. As with all socialist institutions, the poor are still porr and suffer the most because of it. The wealthy still get more. Socialist medicine is a bad idea.
I was in an NIH hospital (I was a student in the UK so I got free care!) in the late 80s for a week and it was excellent. Clean and well staffed.
I was a nurse tech (glorified nurse's aid...I'd done part of nursing school at that pt) for two yrs and a major us teaching hospital. It was a period of change and nurse to patient ratios were much too low both according to the nursing staff and demonstratably.
Patients wouldnt' get their call bells answered as fast when I'd look on the board and see each nurse had four or five patients instead of three. Many of these people could not get out of bed by themselves. Some couldn't feed self.
I had assigned work that was important and timely--I had to take half the floor's vital signs in time for a nurse shift change. That is to be sure eveyone is ok, literally.
SOmetimes though I spent a lot of time answering call bells because pressing needs were in order. Patient X had to go the bathroom and had been waiting and if you didn't help him he might try to go by himself and fall (many pts were elders). Patient Y had diarrhea repeatedly and each time you had to change the sheets-you couldn't leave him in it.
I had the nurse manager chew me out for ONE TIME telling a nurse that had just come on that I would not be able to get her 3 pts vital signs withint the alloted time because I had too many patients with more "trivial' needs--on the john, lying in poop...needing to be fed not having had lunch by 3pm and they were a diabetic. See, patients overall health was the nurse's responsibilty. I was being realistic.
She wouldn't work with me. Just decided I was lazy (as she sat there gabbing about her weekend catching up with nurses she hadn't seen in a while) not listening to the fact that we were short staffed and people had been waiting TOO LONG for their call lights to be answered....
Nurse manager (being a nurse not an aid) was brisly and judgemental from the start of our conversation that I was "inefficient'. I was. The other aids just didn't answer call lights and didn't mind as much if people waited.
When I read this article I thought of the overworked nurses and aids. It says that trays were put out of reach of patients so they couldn't get to their food, patients weren't fed beds weren't changed etc etc.
NO ONE goes into nursing to make people suffer. ALmost everyone goes in to help and care for people
THIS WAS A STAFFING PROBLEM. as we have the same problem in the US. Nurse's liscenses can be revokd if the "abandon" a patient (state nursing boards and state gov that issues liscence). So nurses are obliged sometimes to work over 12 hr shifts if someone doesn't show/is out sick. Hospitals try to save money by undrestaffing floors.
WHen I was first in nursing school at the Best boston teaching hospitals the nurse to pt ration on our floor was 1:3 or so. One time my mother was in a suburban hospital. we rang for the nurse so she could go to the bathroom (she'd had surgery, had an IV with pole, and the nurse said not to go without her). She did not come for 30 min. My mom could not wait or she'd pee her bed. If I had not been there my mother likely would have fallen (or lied in a dirty bed). Also, the nurses aid had taken vital signs 4 hrs before and my mothers oxygen sat was too low but no one had done anything. It is somewhat of an urgency..supposed to be on oxygen if you have sat of 92 with heart disease.
When the nurse appeared she chewed me out for walking my mother to the bathroom. I responded with "we rang 35 minutes ago, she would have pee'd her bed if I didn't or gone alone. How many patients do you hae?"
They had NINE PATIENTS.. THREE TIMES the ration I was used to in the city. THis is in the US.
Hospitals cut nursing staff to save money and because nurses are liscenced here in the US they have no power. They have to manage more patients. They tell the hospital management it isnt' safe...and even sometimes strike if they are fortunate enough to be unionized...hospital says it is and they should be able to do it.
It reminds me of a sweatshop in early 1900s. You had to do a certain # of pieces of clothing or you did not get paid part of your $$. They boss wanted to save money so he'd just up that amount even if it was impossible unsafe or whatever.
Laurali, It is very well part of a staffing problem. It is also a problem of money management, it is also a problem with people not being compensated to the standard that they would like. Human nature is just that human nature. People in service industries get very angry if they feel they do not make enough money. Also nursing can be a burnout career particularly in a situation where they are not able or encouraged to improve their lot in life.
When we lived in England the big health initiative was a petition drive. The petition was to shorten the mandated time between the diagnosis of breast cancer and surgery to remove the cancer. Women were suffering more extensive damage from cancerous tumors and even dying because the NHS wait time between diagnosis and surgery was too long. So the answer was to create a petition, get signature on the petition, from all across the UK, and once they had enough signatures they could go to Parliament with their request.... I found that to be just awful.
somebefuddledperson
It took both money and private insurance. We paid Her Majesty's Revenue 40% off the top from our Salary. We paid VAT tax for the cost of our Insurance Premium. We paid VAT when we used our private insurance.
The NHS also makes some rather insane requirements like Physicians being on time. We were right up the hill from the NHS physician that we were assigned, so it took less than five minutes to get to his surgery. When we arrived we would take a number and at the exact time of the appointment we were called into the Physician's office. He had no time to do a proper exam so there go the basic, take your temp and blood pressure, weight etc...they just trusted what you told them. They would ask about symptoms and trust what you told them then give you a script for the first protocol based on NHS guidelines for that symptom. Then they would get you out of there fast enough to see the next patient. If symptoms persist then you go back for the second protocol and so on until they finally hit the right treatment to resolve your problem. My husband went back about 10 times for his throat issues and at no point did the Physician palpitate his thyroid to feel the nodules or even look into his throat. When we got back to the US the nodules were palpitated and he went to see and ENT. The ENT wished to take them out stating that he would probably only have to remove one lobe...as it turned out there were several cancerous tumors and they removed his entire thyroid. Five years later he is cancer free but can't seem to get the med regulated.
Socialized medicine (even with insurance coverage for all) = a litany of protocols that have very little to do with a physician's skill. Alows for Physician's to be paid less.
Socialized medicine = a boom for drug companies because this is where the protocol's start
Socialized medicine = rationing of diagnostic testing
Socialized medicine = fewer skilled Doctors and more Nurse Practitioners who often times are not as well trained as a Drs. Nurse.
Socialized medicine = the same poor quality of care for all on this system regardless of socioeconomic standing.
I can go on...
Right on, Laurali! You got it. I am a U.S. nurse, too. You bet, it is about money. Takes staff to keep staff.
I mediflighted a patient to England and saw for myself the ordinary English hospital. Patients walked around in their own pajamas and robes. The windows actually opened. There were courtyard gardens. The nurses did not have access to most high tech equipment that we do, they did not have the science of nursing so much, but they sure had the ART of nursing down. This Staffordshire hospital must be one hellhole of an example. Any real nurse would quit in a day after working at such a place.
This is what the new health care system here is going to be based on. Why would we want something like this in the USA?
No I would not like that system here. I wasn't a fan of their system over there, which is why we used our access to Private insurance for our Children and only My darling dear one and I used NHS with poor results.
From an earlier poster, a fact:
just twist all the related concepts together into one big mishmash, that way the right-wing blowhards on the radio can spew some more made-up lies. Please.
No one, not even the most left-wing Democrats, are advocating state-run hospitals. Guaranteed health insurance for everyone is the goal. That is a far different endpoint than the British system.
So earthgirl how much do you pay for your health insurance and how much of an increase are you capable of assuming as your fair share? Are you willing to have less access to care (longer wait times for specialists, longer for your primary care, hospitals/clinics in already under-served areas closing, local and state tax increases to supliment an over burdened county hospital systems) for more money?
"He said there were three problems in the NHS as a whole. “First, a focus on finance and figures at the expense of patient care,” he said. “Second, there was an attitude that patient care was always someone else’s problem….Third, defensiveness and complacency.”
Hooray for nationalized health care!
Where did you get that idea? The "new" healthcare system here is going to remain the same as the old healthcare system. You get what care you can pay for, either through insurance if you can get it, or personally.
Our family used the healthcare systems in the UK and Ireland and were very happy with them. But that is not the system we have here. I'm sure the US has hospitals here that are as bad. Every time these stories come out we need to examine our hospitals to make sure they are doing the right thing by patients.
socialized medicine at its finest
its a nice quip and an easy conclussion but the truth is more nuanced than that. Other UK hospitals didn' have the problems this one did, they said. And this happens in the US too perhaps not to this degree. As a former nursing tech/student/aid I have seen it first hand.
it's from short staffing. I've seen people wait in US for call bell to be answered for 30 min and no one comes. I've seen pts pee the bed because of waiting. I see pts who can't eat NOT because SOmeone cruely put their tray out of reach--its' that the staff who left it don't know the patient can't reaach and the nurse doesn't have time to check to see that it was put too far away.
It is a fact that one of the main ways hospitals try to save money in the US is to slash nursing staff. That pumps up the nurse to pt ratio. Nurses have a professional ethical obligation, as well as a liscence, to try to care for all. They'd complain but not have any leveredge or not be believed. I am telling you in a major well funded teaching hospital in Boston we were running around like wait staff during dinner hour at the most popular restaurant in the city. Constantly in motion, flat out, trying to answer call lights to get pts what they needed. I have seen patients not responded to and thus unsafe (elders will get up to go to bathroom alone and fall, very often, becuase no one answers call light).
I worked in four different hospitals and had my parents in two others. Hospitals have slashed nursing staff in the US.
It is not as bad as the case of this particular NIH hospital but our capitalistic healthcare system often results in slashing nursing staff to save money and thus the same kind of problems.
Of course this happens in the US too.
Somehow I knew the comments would focus on, "This is what we will become...". This is one hospital (that we know of) and there have been quite a few issues within health care systems, hospitals, and doctor offices here in the US. There will always be greed in any system- whether for money, status, etc.- regardless of whether it is a nationalized system or free-market. The issue is that people need to be vigilant in making sure that services and care are performed appropriately and well. Vigilance on the part of family, friends, and employees feeling free to speak the truth. My guess is that the people who suffered did not have family members watching; there have been many cases like that in nursing homes in the US; It can happen anywhere. IMHO this wasn't a case of nationalization. It was a case of greed and a lack of care and compassion.
That continued for 3+ years without being noticed.
Whitney, you can "guess" all you want as to the reason why so as to rationalize it to yourself ... however, no matter what you guess, it won't undermine the horror created by a socialist system. By the way, did you not read the article? The patients had to rely on family members to feed them - so of course there were family members "watching."
Bottom line is that this is the result of a healthcare system that is constrained by federal budgets as opposed to the free market. Of course it's going to happen here - but worse because our fed gov't doesn't know how to run anything efficiently. Europe is much better at being a socialist than the US.
You wanted Obama? You got him...
....and Whitney, hate to tell ya, courage. Courage is missing in many industries, healthcare included. Have the courage to stand up? Lose job! EOS.
Our free market system would never allow this to happen. Right? How many of you have had serious medical conditions that required an extended hospital stay?
I have what is considered a very good policy with a very good insurance company. I was treated for super hypertension several years ago. A carefully maintained diet and several medications keep this killer at bay.
A few years later, I was stricken with colon cancer. Chemotherapy, radiation and surgery were my best options for survival. The surgery took place in one of the best rated hospitals in a major city 50 miles from home. I explained my previous condition and ask to bring my blood pressure medication with me. Absolutely not! Hospital policy dictates that all medication must be dispensed from hospital staff only. Fine. I understand that.
The surgery went great. The first week of recuperation was hell. I was alert enough to know I was not getting my blood pressure medication. I was stalled for three days as the numbers rose to critical levels that were turning my internal organs into jelly. This 58 yr. old man was forced to call his Daddy(who lived in the outskirts of the city).
My 77 yr. old dad gave them hell. He first noticed the tacky floor and the 3 used syringes carelessly tossed to the floor. He demanded to speak to the head nurse. He got the explanation that had been refused to me. Blood pressure medication could only be dispensed in the cardiology ward while being carefully monitored. They were waiting for an empty bed on that floor. He insisted he would not be leaving my side til I was moved to that floor.
Two hours later, an empty bed was miraculously discovered. As I was being wheeled into my new room, my Dad and I both knew why beds were so rare so here. This was a suite. My insurance company would never pay full price. This( and likely more of the same empty beds) had been on hold for high-rollers as I lay for three days with very critical health risks while in a hospital!
This is the very best example of your wonderful free market health care system at work. One question. Would I have been one of those statistical patients that died of "complications" if no one had been available to speak up for me? Bet your sweet a$$.
Visit some nursing home/extended care facilities here in the US. Take a look at state funding of inspection agencies.
I truly believe that what happened at this particular facility was isolated. I think it has more to do with the mentality and morale of the workers at the facility not the NHS system, itself. When a select few on the staff will dictate the way things are handled, some of the staff will not go against them. Some hospital staff members do tend to run the show according to a select few. They will bully other staff members and people are afraid of a job lost. I have seen this myself in a particular facility I had worked for in Cincinnati. You can report incidences, but if the management and the few that are running the show go hand in hand there is little you can do. I am surprised at the families and the medical staff that come in and out of the facility. Their the ones that should have spoken for the victims.
I worked for a Cincinnati hospital that allowed several nurse in surgery to bully new nurses. We went through about 300 new nurses in a 2 year span. They would stay a couple of days to several weeks and would be gone after the "staff nurses" got through with them. From outright bullying to interfering with having the nurse do her job. This occurred while surgeries were being performed. A surgeon would asked for a particular suture and it would be kept in a certain place in the stock area. The "staff nurses" would hide the suture from the new nurse and then would yell and make fun of the nurse that could not find the suture. It went sometimes beyond that with personal property destroyed like tires on the car being slashed. The incidences could be reported over and over, but management ignored the reports. So, 300 new nurses came and went in a 2 year span. So, if they have staff at this facility in England, I can easily understand that the mentality of staff should be focused upon. I would not be surprised to find a corrupt few doing this to staff and patients here. When you get a few that have the same mentality and use group mentality to interfere with people doing their job and no support at the top. This is how things like this happen.
I worked and was harassed and threatened and I went to supervisors and Human Resources even. Nothing was done. So, I moved on and I am glad I did. It takes very sick individuals to create and facilitate an environment like this to work in and I cannot imagine being a patient that needs care to be treated like this. There are nurses that do great work and never get the recognition they deserve. There are however, those nurses that do not need to be in the profession. It always amazed me too that these "staff nurses" always made Nurse of the Year also.
Sounds like you were a surgical tech.
You mean OR nurses? My god. Its surgery! They supervisor nurses have to sift the diamonds from the chaff.
Seems like the same standard of care here at John Stroger hospital in Chicago. The hospital is overworked, under paid and understaffed. Of course Stroger is funded by tax payer dollars and caters to the poor and uninsured.
"...Hospitals will also be penalized if patients get sick again too quackly after they are discharged.."
I hate it when things happen to quackly...
Oh good - so when I need a bed, the hospital will be full because they are continuing to house people who could have been sent home days ago, but won't be because the hospital is afraid that the patient might relapse. Not to mention the high costs associated with needlessly housing patients who could just as easily be resting at home... Talk about gov't waste! Will Obama EVER learn the law of unintended consequences of good intentions?
Nope. Sorry. All diagnoses have a time limit on being able to stay in the hospital. So if you're not well enough, we kick you to the curb anyway or do not get paid/reimbursed. And yes. that is the way it is right now~
Or they could just send you home the next morning after 4 hours of orthopedic surgery and hope for the best.
Do you really think it's cheaper to re-admit them and put them in the ICU because they were sent home with a leaking internal suture? Happened to a friend after surgery. She almost didn't survive it.
They send us home so quick our heads are spinning. The last time I spent the night in a hospital was my Csection (he is almost 16). And I have cancer, so sending patients home with drainage, open wounds etc is not my idea of 'good'. There are often complications which require readmittance and cost more to fix than the original problem.
British lords are in a race to the bottom. America in the near future.
Once the middle class elderly "Former Taxpayers" are rationed out because a 20 year old Welfare "Subsidized" Obama voter needs a procedure..
ObamaCare screws the paying middle class, while giving another handout to Obama Voters
So? Take a tranquillizer plus a laxative and get over it. Presient Obama and the ACA won the popular vote, again.
Got a hot news flash for you, thomas; your so-called "Obama voters" mostly work and pay at least some taxes. I'm middle class, and a fair number of us voted for Obama because we sure as hell know the GOP isn't going to take care of us.
I am SO SICK of people on the right calling Obama voters moochers and such. We pay plenty of taxes and get no 'gubmint handouts'. Those would be the low information teaparty voters, not us.
These stories aren't new. Our main stream press doesn't report on iinformation that's counter to their philosophies. After Obama-care really ramps up Americans will wish we had a system as bad as the U.K.
Well, at least they can sue the hospit....o, wait. Government owned. No legal recourse whatsoever. Well, that sucks.
but, but, they have a committee for that.
just like with vaccines, the pharmaceutical companies are not liable. now the hospitals won't be liable. boy are we @!$%#ed!
All this happens while the 'royal family' lives in total luxury with all their bills paid, no rent to pay on hundreds of palaces, no need to go buy their own food -- or prepare it -- and everyone in Britain is supposed to love them. I think not. It's past time to remove the monarchy and install a real government that has to win a fair election. Britain puts on a nice show, but the recent news about BBC personalities molesting children and the 'royal kids' getting to fly helicopters (for rescue missions) and 'kill Taliban' is all a big front for the queen and her entourage of hangers-on.
Its headed that way. A few years back they cleared out "most" of the hereditary peers, a bunch of minor royal kling-ons got dumped off the payroll and I figure as soon as liz II dies, popularity will drop like a rock and australia will separate.
You really think the Royal Family has any say in government policy? Get a clue.
Four years ago, I had a fractured vertebrae. Five x-rays were billed at $700. Insurance apid $63 and I paid $7. That left a difference of $630. Guess what? Since I had insurance, that $630 disappeared. WHY? If I had walked in without insurance, I would have been expected to pay the full $700 billing.
Why should there be difference in billings if someone does or doesn't have insurance? There shouldn't be. That's where the "Affordable Healthcare Act" is an inside joke for Democrats. It isn't affordable by any current standard. The Dems should have forced doctors, hospitals, and other care givers to charge the same rates for people with or without insurance. Only then can true healthcare reform take place.
Insurance companies negotiate rates with the provider. You probably went to a hospital that had a contract with the insurance company. The $700 rate is to offset the people that flake on the hospital. You can often negotiate with the hospital for cash and probably would have paid about $200-$300 for X-rays alone plus doctor reading. If you had gone to an Urgent Care instead, you probably would have paid about $200 including visit with the doctor. Sometimes imaging centers double bill the insurance company. I had negotiated a cash rate for an MRI and received a second bill from a different company for the same MRI. This was the MRI company trying to rip of the insurance company.
They would call that price fixing, though you are right that the same procedure by the same provider should always cost exactly the same, whether with insurance or without.
Jeff is also right, that the people without insurance are expected to pay for all the people who flaked on their bills.
Both of those facts are why ObamaRomneycare was such a stupid concept. No price control on procedures, no universal access to healthcare, and private citizens being forced to buy a corporate product.
It is really the antithesis of universal healthcare when you stop to think about it. That was really what bothered me about the article is they kept comparing NHS to Obamaromneycare, and the two share not one thing in common.
"Treasured" National Health Service? I've known quite a few British citizens. That is NOT the adjective they used to describe it. And they certainly would not have agreed with some dog-and-pony show put on for the Olympics that glorified their NHS.
Stop trying to kiss up to socialized medicine, Ms. Fox. I doubt a single hospital in this country will ever pay a penny of penalty for a patient becoming sick or infected after receiving care. When was the last time a hospital ever admitted to you it was wrong? I don't know of any case where any hospital has ever apologized to anyone I know for sloppy, poor or outright incorrect care or treatment.
Several of the Brits I knew bought private health insurance on top of their NHS-taxed-wages so they would have access to private doctors and hospitals and quick treatment. They did not care to wait years for, say, having a tonsilectomy. They knew this sort of neglect was going on decades ago and they had no desire to become the next victims of it should they ever require hospitilization.
I lived in England for two years and had one experience with Nationalized Health Care while I was there. It was the best experience of dealing with doctors in my 54 years of life.
I had a lung infection and was in total misery. I was soldiering through it like any American would, hoping it would go away. One of my English cohorts said " Ed, just go to the doctor's surgery ( doctor's office) and they'll take care of it. You know, it doesn't cost anything." So I went with no appointment and no experience dealing with socialized medicine.
I walked into the office and was told all the doctors were out to lunch ( "getting tea") and I asked if I could wait. The receptionist said I could , so I laid down on the couch in the waiting area. Not two minutes later, a doctor walked out and said she heard the receptionist say there were no doctors there, but she hadn't known this doctor was in her office.
I went into the doctors office and took off my shirt. She thumped my chest a couple of times, said I had a lung infection and gave me three prescriptions. NO COST FOR THE VISIT, with NO APPOINMENT.
I went to the apothecary ( drug store) around the corner and got my three prescriptions that would have cost $ 200-400 for 20 pounds ( about $ 36.00)
I LOVE socialized health care. No one can tell me that it's not the best thing since sliced bread.I would trade our version of health care in a New York minute if I could get British health care.
As a side note, when I explained to my English friends how health care worked in the US, their comment generally went like this;"That's fooking crazy ,mate; sounds like the rats are in charge of the cheese"
Well said.
I have several British friends and the general consensus is the system is fine, even great for simple, routine medical visits. Not so much for serious (read:expensive) illnesses and procedures. Long wait times for procedures and/or frequent denial. Those with money often go elsewhere.
Thanks for telling us about your experience with "Free Loading". You don't get "free" health care as the British citizens pay dearly for minimal care. What you got for free costs them more than 10% of their income. There ain't no free lunch baby.
For-profit health care corporations are notorious for cutting staff and covering up problems. Most of them receive tax payer money through Medicaid. Neglect is not uncommon in the United States!
True, but it's better than countries that have so called "universal" health care.
No, Viewer_Ready, it is not better. Katzli Dieter is correct. US medical care is far from the best in the world and is BY FAR the most expensive! This UK hospital has a problem and it sounds like that problem stems from the management. The best health care by all accepted medical parameters like life expectancy, in-hospital infection rate, access to health care, infant mortality indicate that you can get better health care in almost any country with universal health care than you can here. One thing about this article that concerns me is the nursing culture in the UK. First we have a nurse commit suicide after being diciplined over a hoax and now nurses who don't report conditions like this to a higher authority because they are intimidated? I worked as an RN in Labor and Delivery for 14 years in the US and the nurses I know are pretty proactive and independent and protective of their patients. I'm curious how nurses are trained and socialized in England. Maybe that's the problem.
Just wait until Obamacare kicks into full blast. Our system will make that English hospital look like a club med by comparison.
Coming soon to an obamacare facility near you
Agreed, stay tuned!!
Politicians will throw Mama under the bus and blame it on the bus so you know where that ranks you and me in Obuba care.
Yep - yet another bus crime... perhaps we should have congressional hearings to ban busses.
Regarding the articles statement that "Britons take great pride in their health service", I can only tell you what happened to my brother when he was injured in a large donut bakery when setting up new cooking equipment and was badly burned by hot grease. His British friends told him he'd be smart to get back to the USA as soon as possible for his medical care, which he did. They said they would do the same if they had the means.
I don't believe you, Ron.
Almost every single Brit I met , who knew anything about our health care system, thought theirs was head and sholders above ours .
Like I said Ed, I can only repeat what happened to my brother. I won't call you a liar based on your own experience. That's a liberal trait.
Ron, it's amazing you know Ron's political views when you know absolutely nothing else about him.
You must be psychic.
I find your comments interesting, Ed. My boyfriend, who now lives in US, lived the first 35 years of his life in England and disagrees with your assessment. When visiting England with a friend who was a US citizen, his friend had to pay full price for doctor's services and be reimbursed by their insurance company upon return to the US. How were you able to get "free" medical services? Did you have a National Insurance Number?
My boyfriend also believes Lanikai_Ron's statement of what happened to his friend has merit. He thinks you can get faster and better ongoing treatment for the types of injuries that Lanikai_Ron's friend experienced in the US as opposed to in England.
Other examples my boyfriend gave: His mother, after paying for years into the system, was very unhappy when her pain medications were cut back due to their costs. This left her dealing with a lot of pain that she should not have had to deal with (she died last year). His sister had a brain tumor and had to fight to get treatment because she was initially denied due to the costs. A friends grandmother was denied a hip replacement because she was too old.
Finally, he does think the US system is very overpriced due to all the regulations, malpractice insurance, etc.
I find the wide discrepancy between experiences and perceptions regarding UK healthcare baffling.
This can't be true. Socialized single payer health care is the best thing since sliced bread. Right? They have to be lying.
ObamaCare - the British version.
ComradeChaos.........You're exactly right. The situation in the UK is exactly what Obama wants for the U.S.
Kudos to all the dumbasses out there who put this monkey in the White House. (My apologies to all monkeys)
Amen to beangrinder,finally some one has the courage to tell it like it really is
HUH!? Have you looked at The Patient Protection and Afordable Health Care Act? This reform requires universal PRIVATE insurance and does not affect Medicare or Medicade. "Obamacare" simply makes sure that virtually everone has access to PRIVATE insurance.....gheez!
HUH!? Have you looked at The Patient Protection and Afordable Health Care Act? This reform requires universal PRIVATE insurance and does not affect Medicare or Medicade. "Obamacare" simply makes sure that virtually everone has access to PRIVATE insurance.....gheez!
HUH!? Have you looked at The Patient Protection and Afordable Health Care Act? This reform requires universal PRIVATE insurance and does not affect Medicare or Medicade. "Obamacare" simply makes sure that virtually everone has access to PRIVATE insurance.....gheez!
Don't waste your time, Catfish, these idiots "know" that Obamacare is socialist medicine.
Before the ACA was passed, many times the UK system was used as an example of how good it will be and how far behind the USA is from other countries. Had this made the media at the time quite a few pro health care people would've had to shut up quick and go away. There is abuse everywhere, but it seems in the USA it is limited more to people without family to speak up for them and report bad situations. There are many ways to get conditions improved. It says the UK problem hospital involved those with family as well, meaning no one had anywhere to turn. not even the media would get involved. it took an unusually high death rate and years before a lawyer could get anywhere. I would bet arrogance with the belief their system was so good left many to not get involved.