Get back to us in a year.....you have no clue............

I wish they would get to getting something going for Alabama..sigh.

Maureen, your tea is getting cold !

Originally a Republican idea, exchanges won bipartisan support, only to be abandoned by many in the GOP once they were incorporated into Obama's health care law.

This is so typical of the present day Republicans. They are all for something but when Obama supports it they automatically are against it.

Don't you mean originally a Republican Idea almost two decades ago when the Internet wasn't as accessible as it is now and all you have to do to get insurance is go online?

Why should we now have to pay for "Exchanges" when people can already just go online to find insurance now?

If the Republicans had decided to all jump off a cliff, then later on common sense told them that was a bad idea, they should all just jump off the cliff anyways because it sounded like a good idea before they came to their senses?

Seems like republicans have been very eager to jump off the fiscal cliff, luckily they got convinced to postpone it.

Here you go. How many millions of dollars is it going to cost the U.S. tax payers to create and maintain the "Exchanges" when people could just go on the Internet and do a search for Health Insurance?

Blue Cross Blue shield website.

http://www.individualhealthquotes.com/zip/blue-cross-blue-shield.jsp?link_id=1000&src=G-IHQ&cmpn=National+Health+Insurance+High+Rev+States&adg=Blue+Cross&ad=18844105857&kw=blue%20cross&pos=1t2&mt=e&ds=S&pl=&nw=s&exp=&sl=&tg=&p1=&p2=&p3=446303995216857622&p4=&p5=&lp=1&gclid=COLnyc7IzbQCFSTZQgodCBIAxQ&lst=bw

Anthem

http://get.anthem.com/nv/index.aspx?Referrer=Google&wm_crID=11226612&wm_lpID=42639403&wm_ctID=85&wm_kwID=21911960&wm_mtID=3&wm_content=0&wm_g_crID=10747575014&wm_g_kw=health+insurance&wm_g_pcmt=&wm_g_cnt=0&gclid=CM6D1OjIzbQCFad_Qgod22QABA&wm_kw=health+insurance&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=health+insurance&utm_campaign=nv+wpi+sem+-+general&wm_sd=1

HealthInsurance dot org

http://www.healthinsurance.org/

LACare

http://lacare.org/

Humana

http://www.humana.com/

Assurant Health

http://www.assuranthealth.com/corp/ah/AHHome.htm

David, I hope you're not really that simple. Mitt Romney set up an exchange in Massachusetts about 9 or 10 years ago (not two decades, that's twenty years in case you didn't know) to help get affordable insurance for people who did not have the ability to just go online and buy it. By purchasing through an exchange, poor people have the option of getting group rates, much like your employer gets when they purchase your insurance for you. You do understand that not everyone today has a job, and without a job it is often difficult to own a computer. But anyway, the exchanges do much more than simply provide a place to purchase an individual (expensive) insurance policy. They also help find policies that people can afford. For some people they can even make sure that the policy being purchased provides adequate mental health coverage to meet their obvious need (not talking about anyone specific). Still the beauty of this law is that if you do not need or want the assistance of an exchange you do not need to take it. You can still go talk to a salesman on the internet and take whatever it is they want to sell you at whatever a price you are willing to pay. That is your god given right David. I wish you the best of luck with that! In the mean time please stop trying to interfere with others god given right to adequate health care!

dave, god given right, to go BUY insurance, not using my tax dollars!!!!!!

You do understand that not everyone today has a job, and without a job it is often difficult to own a computer.

B.S. you don't need a computer to get online. You can go to any Public Library or numerous other places to get online for free. Maybe they can even use there free Obama phone.

There's also no reason to believe that getting a Group rate insurance is going to be any cheaper because most of the people going into those "Exchanges" are probably going to be sickly etc.

The reason Employers can get good rates, wait for it, is because there employees are all probably in pretty reasonable shape after all they do work full time, have to comply with company rules meaning there probably not getting drunk and doing drugs all the time, you know Drug Testing, etc.

The people receiving the Insurance subsidies, Welfare, Food Stamps etc should have to go through mandatory monthly drug testing and if they fail they lose all benefits. They obviously don't need them if they can afford to do drugs.

When they say 8 of 10 people going into the "exchanges" will get Insurance subsides its not about getting them insurance its about making sure they get the government handout.

In fact its part of the Democrats Strategy, also known as the "Cloward-Piven strategy" or "Crisis strategy".

http://www.thenation.com/article/weight-poor-strategy-end-poverty#

The ultimate objective of this strategy--to wipe out poverty by establishing a guaranteed annual income--will be questioned by some. Because the ideal of individual social and economic mobility has deep roots, even activists seem reluctant to call for national programs to eliminate poverty by the outright redistribution of income.

…

Second, the right to income must be guaranteed, or the oppression of the welfare poor will not be eliminated. Because benefits are conditional under the present public welfare system, submission to arbitrary governmental power is regularly made the price of sustenance. People have been coerced into attending literacy classes or participating in medical or vocational rehabilitation regimes, on pain of having their benefits terminated. Men are forced into labor on virtually any terms lest they forfeit their welfare aid. One can prize literacy, health and work, while still vigorously opposing the right of government to compel compliance with these values.

…

Advocacy must be supplemented by organized demonstrations to create a climate of militancy that will overcome the invidious and immobilizing attitudes which many potential recipients hold toward being "on welfare." In such a (climate, many more poor people are likely to become their own advocates and will not need to rely on aid from organizers.

As the crisis develops, it will be important to use the mass media to inform the broader liberal community about the inefficiencies and injustices of welfare.

…

To generate an expressly political movement, cadres of aggressive organizers would have to come from the civil rights movement and the churches, from militant low-income organizations like those formed by the Industrial Areas Foundation (that is, by Saul Alinky), and from other groups on the Left. These activists should be quick to see the difference between programs to redress individual grievances and a large-scale social-action campaign for national policy reform.

…

And those seeking new ways to engage the Negro politically should remember that public resources have always been the fuel for low-income urban political organization. If organizers can deliver millions of dollars in cash benefits to the ghetto masses, it seems reasonable to expect that the masses will deliver their loyalties to their benefactors. At least, they have always done so in the past.

It really is just a case of simple. I think you even believe your own drivel.

I think that this is just a simple way to have all American citizens covered for Health Care needs. After everyone becomes accustomed and accepts this,as most European Countries do and have,we will see that a truly National Health Care is the cheapest and best way to go.

Move to Europe, then...

most European Countries do and have,we will see that a truly National Health Care is the cheapest and best way to go.

Do you think europeans' health care is cheaper maybe because they are much healthier than the average american? Or the fact that their tax rate is triple ours? Or that they are not as consumer driven as us? Where americans need the latest and most expensive treatment that may only be mildly better than the cheaper one?

Or that they have an easier time with death whereas americans spend >30% of every health care dollar during the last few weeks of life?

Im not necessarily saying national health care won't be cheaper than our current system. Im just reminding people that to arbitrarily link one factor with one outcome while ignoring tons of cofounders is not good science

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20264712/detroit-councilwoman-to-obama-we-supported-you-now-support-us

Detroit councilwoman to Obama: We voted for you, now bail us out

DETROIT (WJBK) -- The city of Detroit faces a major financial crisis and one member of city council thinks President Barack Obama should step in and help.

City Council member JoAnn Watson said Tuesday the citizens support of Obama in last month's election was enough reason for the president to bailout the struggling the city. (Click the video player to listen)

"Our people in an overwhelming way supported the re-election of this president and there ought to be a quid pro quo and you ought to exercise leadership on that," said Watson. "Of course, not just that, but why not?"

Nearly 75 percent of Wayne County voters pulled the lever for Obama in November.

"After the election of Jimmy Carter, the honorable Coleman Alexander Young, he went to Washington, D.C. He came home with some bacon," said Watson. "That's what you do."

David, as soon as you used the word "Obamaphone" you instantly lost any credibility with whatever you say here, do some homework before you attempt to make your backside jealous with all the crap that is coming out of your mouth!

Thanks for the catch Gov.

I never used that term before. I should have looked it up before using it. I looked it up as you suggested and your right about "Obamaphone", it was a Tea Party gag. I wont make that mistake again.

If you think it cost me any Credibility that's your choice to make.

I admit my mistake, I was willing to read what you had to say, and looked into it and have learned from my mistake.

Why couldn't you challenge me in a civil tone without suggesting I have Sh\t coming out of my mouth?

Then again "Ridicule is mans most potent weapon", and its so much easier to look for one tiny little mistake, so you can dismiss everything, and ridicule the author, when you know its 99% correct.

Do you think europeans' health care is cheaper maybe because they are much healthier than the average american? Or the fact that their tax rate is triple ours? Or that they are not as consumer driven as us? Where americans need the latest and most expensive treatment that may only be mildly better than the cheaper one?

Europeans are healthier on average, but not by that much. At this point in time, the percentage of obese Germans is higher than the percentage of obese Americans.

The tax-rate point is irrelevant. Call it taxes, call it fees, call it copay, call it what you will, but the fact is that European countries spend less both per capita and as a percentage of GDP on health with comparable –and, in some cases, better– results. That means that, even counting their tax money, they spend less on healthcare than we do.

You're right: it's very difficult to establish causation. But we are the only industrialized nation without universal and/or single-payer healthcare and we're the nation that spends the most money on healthcare. It's more of a stretch to assume that this is a mere coincidence than to assume it is not.

but not by that much. At this point in time, the percentage of obese Germans is higher than the percentage of obese Americans.

Europe on average is much less obese than the united states. Germany has the highest obesity rate of any european country--don't present it as the average. And its still less than half of the US

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

Furthermore, obesity is not the only risk factor of disease. Our lifestyle is much more sedentary, our diet is worse (even in nonobese individuals), and our rates of hypertension and diabetes are orders of magnitude higher. Additionally, our genetic makeup as a country is more prone to western disease than that of europe

The tax-rate point is irrelevant.

Its really not irrelevant; its actually at the heart of the matter

Call it taxes, call it fees, call it copay, call it what you will, but the fact is that European countries spend less both per capita

Well, youre mixing labels here, and thats important. When you call it "taxes" or "fees" you can divorce it from health care expenditures in your calculations. However, this is disingenuous. And even if you include taxes in your figures, the other reasons I stated above make it clear why americans spend more

nd, in some cases, better– results.

Id like to see some stats supporting that claim. And I dont mean the same tired old infant mortality or life expectancy numbers that everyone has shown 10 times already. Those numbers have much more to do with lifestyle choices than the health care system. If you drove your car 100 mph everywhere, wrecked it over and over again, never changed the oil, would you blame the mechanic when it broke down??

You're right: it's very difficult to establish causation. But we are the only industrialized nation without universal and/or single-payer healthcare and we're the nation that spends the most money on healthcare. It's more of a stretch to assume that this is a mere coincidence than to assume it is not.

No one is saying its coincidence...in fact, my whole post was dedicated to the opposite. I gave you numerous causes other than mere coincidence to explain it. I think its ridiculous to randomly attribute an effect (health care expenditures) with an alleged cause (health care payer) and just ignore every potential confounder. You didn't address anything about end of life care or our dependence on technology, or our litigation problems (though I didn't bring that up earlier). All of these factors alone could be responsible

This whole thing has disaster written all over it. I don't care how many RINOs support it.

One more thing, once government mandates healthcare it is not longer "insurance" but a tax funded social welfare program.

Why everybody continues to compare the US to say Germany or France is beyond reason. Those two countries are about the size of Texas put together. The US population is about 315 million there's no comparison to small countries. The US government has been so successful running the postoffice and medicare, lets see how they run healthcare? Everyone I know who lives in a country with government run healthcare hates it. The wait time to see a doctor is 2 or 3 months and if one requires surgery the wait is usually 1 year.

Not true, I know many people that like their health care in Canada and the UK. All those people you speak with just move to the states for a a little while and see how they are treated without have private insurance. That is usually what shocks them that we treat the disadvantaged so poorly.

By the way David, Piven and Cloward were members of the National Democratic Socialist Party, not the Democrats. You really should do more research and less babbling!

This past year, our company's insurance premiums increased at the same rate they had been increasing by during the past ten years - so from a premium standpoint, at least for our company, there's been no change.

However, children up to age 26 are now covered in family plans, there is no longer an exclusion for pre-existing conditions, and there in no longer a life-time benefit limitation - all significant coverage increases. Thus far, as far as I'm concerned, we're ahead. Let's see when exchanges and cost containment features go into effect in 2014. Hopefully, the premium increases will begin to be brought under control.

Believen- the post office would be fine if it didn't have to pre-pay retirement for employees that may not have even been born yet. Medicare could be improved, but is decent. As for the wait times in other countries, they prioritize by who actually needs something the most. Let's say I have a glitchy knee, and can only walk for about a half an hour before it starts working. Someone else has a bad knee and can barely cross a room. It's been determined that surgery would fix us both. Here, whoever has the cash (or insurance) gets taken care of, whoever doesn't, won't get it done at all (and if the one with the really bad knee doesn't have cash or insurance, we end up paying them disability). There, the person who can't function gets taken care of first, and I'd have to wait until they had an open spot later on. They get to go back to work, and I might have to cut down on long hikes. Sounds fair to me.

How interesting the misconceptions...Did you know that Brits had to conduct a petition process to approach Parliament to reduce the time it took for women to get appointments and care for lumps in their breasts? That is just one of many issues that they deal with in the UK.

So when we lived in England My husband and I used NHS, my darling dear one had developed thyroid cancer, a palpable node in his thyroid was the big red flag. The Physician never once in over a year touched his throat despite (in hind sight) some really compelling symptoms to simply check his thyroid.

On the move over I did something to my back. When I went to our NHS Physician his protocol was to treat me for depression, after all I was a woman and had just gone through a big life change. So the guidelines he had to use was to treat me for depression. When the anti-depressants didn't work the standard was to continue the useless meds and add a painkiller that would be comparable to vicodin in the US. Who needs diagnostic tests when you can just prescribe painkillers instead. At no point did the protocol indicate that I should have had any diagnostic tests. Two weeks after we moved back I made an appointment to see our new GP. Told him about what had been going on and the treatment. He made a call and got an appointment with a local pain DR. Roughly four hours after making the appointment with my GP we had the results of the MRI showing I had two disks out of place with one pushing on my sciatic nerve. He prescribed a series of traction over the course of eight weeks and some PT. In the third week of treatment I felt the disk come off the never. I can't even explain the instant relief.

We did keep our kids on our Private insurance, which costs a great deal of money just to use. The private hospitals were tremendous. A few weeks before the move my son was catapulted into a TV and fractured his arm, so we took him to he Pedi and they put a cast on him. When it was time to take the cast off we went to our new Private Practice Pedi in England so he could remove the cast. They did an x-ray to check and make sure the arm healed, which it had. The Physician was really impressed that my son had been placed in a cast for the fracture and how well it had healed without further injury. At one point my daughter fell in gymnastics and came home from school in a great deal of pain. I called the Pedi, he said there was no point in bringing her in to see him that we should go straight away to the hospital and have an x-ray. We got a bit lost and wandered into the local NHS hospital which was absolutely filthy and full of people who might have been better served by having hospital beds in the lobby instead of partially covered dinette set chairs that appeared to be soaked in a variety of bodily fluids. We were really pleased to find we were in the wrong place. We needed to be at the Runnymead Hospital located behind this one. When we walked in they were asking what took us so long, the Dr had called over an hour ago to announce our arrival. At that point they ushered my daughter back with my husband, offered our son's some hot chocolate and me a coffee, handed me a few docs to fill out. Before I had completed the paperwork the x-ray had been taken and read. Fortunately, she didn't break anything, we saw the Dr. and heading home in the same hour that we arrived. Private health care in England, per our experience, was tremendous and very costly as they add VAT to the bill. It is a shame that it is prohibitively expensive for the average British citizen to use and that so many in the UK are shut out of that system.

Exchanges are a waste of tax money! There are licensed insurance brokers that can help advise you, they get paid a small fee by the insurance, so it's NO COST to the consumer at all. The workers at the exchanges do not have to be licensed at all! meaning they will be answering your questions about what coverage you should get and what the different coverages mean and you will probably be told incorrect information. Heck, when you call your own health insurance they get the information wrong a lot, so you can only imagine what the exchange employees will tell you. Good luck with going to the exchanges, it will be a nightmare and funded by your tax dollars.

Germany has the highest obesity rate of any european country--don't present it as the average

I never presented it as an average. I used it as an example that European-style universal healthcare can be cheaper as a whole than our system EVEN if you account for obesity.

And no, it's false that their obesity rate is less than half ours. It's as high as, if not HIGHER than, ours. Nationmaster is barely a reliable source for what qualifies as a "nation," not for much else.

sueddeutsche.de/leben/uebergewicht-deutsche-sind-die-dicksten-europaeer-1.867211

(Wenn Sie Deutsch können.)

When you call it "taxes" or "fees" you can divorce it from health care expenditures in your calculations. However, this is disingenuous.

Actually, taxes are always included in computing how much a country spends on healthcare. All comparisons of that sort are made on a basis of percentage of GDP -- is government spending not a part of GDP? I've never come across a comparison of "private expenditure on healthcare by country" anywhere; as you suggest, it would be a very disingenuous and misleading way to frame the issue, given how different different systems are.

Id like to see some stats supporting that claim. And I dont mean the same tired old infant mortality or life expectancy numbers that everyone has shown 10 times already. Those numbers have much more to do with lifestyle choices than the health care system. If you drove your car 100 mph everywhere, wrecked it over and over again, never changed the oil, would you blame the mechanic when it broke down??

Well, how about no European country has 50 million uninsured people or something even proportional to that with respect to its population? Is that not a total failure -- to spend more and insure fewer? And please don't tell me you're one of those people who thinks the uninsured just want to be uninsured or are too lazy to get insurance.

I gave you numerous causes other than mere coincidence to explain it.

Reasons that are either wrong or too thin (see, "we're less healthy"), that are secondary to the primary issue (see, "litigation," which not coincidentally isn't a problem affecting single-payer systems), or that are significant, yet not foreign to other developed countries (technology — are you suggesting that doctors in Canada, Norway, or Switzerland do not make full use of technology as well?).

The mere fact that we're spending more and failing to insure a full sixth of all Americans means the system has to be overhauled. You might attempt to justify the huge bill, but you can't explain away the fact that so many of us are left uninsured. If the "Christian," "compassionate" right studied the life and message of their Redemptor more carefully, they would realize that he was busier healing the sick and wounded than preaching against homosexuality or violent video games. Even outside of religion, it's basic human principle to worry about your fellow Americans who are afraid of going to the doctor to have a lump checked because they're afraid they'll lose their home because of it.

I never presented it as an average. I used it as an example that European-style universal healthcare can be cheaper as a whole than our system EVEN if you account for obesity.

But you haven't accounted for obesity. Saying germany is obese so europe is equivalent to america is false. Its like me showing a picture of a supermodel and then claiming americans are skinny. Presenting an outlier as an example is misleading

Your site is in german. I don't read german. Unless you present an english site that backs up your claim, i'll go with the one I found

To be honest, I don't care what the actual obesity rates are for germany--its not as persuasive or relevant as the fact that europe, on average, is less obese than america

Furthermore, you have not addressed any of the other points I mentioned; specifically, about all the other risk factors. Those are at least as important as obesity.

Actually, taxes are always included in computing how much a country spends on healthcare. All comparisons of that sort are made on a basis of percentage of GDP

I don't think so. Ive seen some based on per capita.

Well, how about no European country has 50 million uninsured people or something even proportional to that with respect to its population? Is that not a total failure -- to spend more and insure fewer?

Even the most ardent obamacare supporter will tell you the 50 million is an exaggeration. If you take out illegals, and people who can afford insurance but choose not to pay for it, the number is half that

Even so, 25 million uninsured is bad, and I agree with measures to help insure these people. I have to concede your point--that is a huge failing of our system

But spending more is because our population is sicker--i really believe that

Reasons that are either wrong or too thin (see, "we're less healthy")

Disagreed. We are more obese than most other countries. Thats unrefuted

We also have more risk factors (more hypertensives, more diabetics, more genetic predispostion) than most other countries. Also unrefuted

that are secondary to the primary issue (see, "litigation," which not coincidentally isn't a problem affecting single-payer systems)

Its not secondary to why we spend more--its a direct cause. Coincidentally, its a much bigger problem in teh US than other nations--the dollars spent on settlements alone proves this--we dwarf other countries in this regard

(technology — are you suggesting that doctors in Canada, Norway, or Switzerland do not make full use of technology as well?)

Yes. We order more imaging tests, and implant more expensive devices than other countries. I can provide sources on request

You might attempt to justify the huge bill, but you can't explain away the fact that so many of us are left uninsured.

True

Even outside of religion, it's basic human principle to worry about your fellow Americans who are afraid of going to the doctor to have a lump checked because they're afraid they'll lose their home because of it.

Youre right again

we will see that a truly National Health Care is the cheapest and best way to go.

So my wife took a 20% premium increase this last October, and I'm slated to take an increase of more than than that this October, due to ACA.

Between not getting a raise for three years due to the economy, health insurance going up, payroll tax cut expiring, my wife and I are doing quite a bit worse now than we were before obama got in office.

But, in good news, corporation over sea tax havens have been approved again for GE/Citigroup/etc, the quality of life for 'poor' people is equal if not better, than my middle class life style, except I work 50 hours a week to support my family. Illegals will be given amnesty so that the left can cement their control over our country (as well as bankrupt it when 20 mil+ illegals hit the welfare lines). And obama is working on disarming us (kinda like happened in nazi germany and china).

I'm really happy our president is all about the middle class, I just wish he'd give me more lube cause my ass is bleeding.

You spelled "teat" wrong!;) And you sound like some of my neighbors and spell it the same way...lol. Of course, I live in a red state and many of them are on some form of assistance while they moan about that horrible government and do their best to vote against themselves and anyone else who might like to actually make a decent living. But that's the way it seems to work.

Well I would have typed Tit but that Might get censored:0)

Of course, I live in a red state and many of them are on some form of assistance while they moan about that horrible government and do their best to vote against themselves and anyone else who might like to actually make a decent living.

You know that how?

You walk around asking everyone in your State if they are receiving Welfare, Food Stamps, Section 8 Housing, free cell phones etc., ask if they are Republican or Democrats, ask them how they vote, and then ask them how they feel about our government?

You wouldn't mind posting your data from all those interviews, your polling, and survey data would you because I would really like to see it and your survey Methods.

There are real numbers that show red states are the ones receiving more federal dollars than they pay in federal tax. There are real numbers that show people with more education have a higher income, and that more education also correlates with a higher chance of voting Democratic. On the other hand you are always free to say that people on food stamps are all Democrats.

It is truly peculiar, but definitely most of the people I know who do not want to work and manage to get some kind of government assistance in order not to work, are staunch republicans, HATE Obama and Democrats, are strongly addicted to the republican radio propaganda machine and have a strong since of entitlement to the government assistance they are getting which is NOT even an entitlement!

Don't worry even with the government payment it is likely they won't even be able to buy the "bronze" option without paying quite a bit themselves Just wait until all these people who think they are getting something for free finally "READ" the bill. Even if the government gave them the bronze insurance it is close to worthless to the type of person who does not save anything to pay the huge copays and deductibles that policy will have.

Oh my god, I'm beginning to believe he is that simple!

Under the new law, about eight in 10 customers in the new marketplaces will be eligible for income-based federal aid to help pay their premiums.

Exactly David! So, what's the big change? The uninsured go to the emergency room now. 8 out of 10 uninsured will get free health care in 2014. Who's paying for it? Maybe that's why my insurance just went up on January 1.

Geez, David. You don't think I know lots of people who live in my area? You don't think I have worked on enough campaigns, causes, in charities, my own business, and that I can see how people talk, what they say, what they do, and how they treat others? I've been around a pretty long time and lived in several areas of the country. This region, the red region, is the place where I see this to a much larger degree than other places I have lived. It is amazing. So don't presume to insinuate that I wouldn't know how people in my area act and think. Believe me, they are for the most part pretty loud about how they feel about everything and everyone. There are, as there are everywhere, some wonderful people and some not-so-wonderful people. But here what I said in the post you quoted is really true for many, many of the people in my area.

And David, your snotty attitude isn't necessary. I don't take notes on my neighbors. I don't need to. I see them all around town discussing these things with each other, they talk to me about how wrong those moocher Democrats are, yet line up to get those benefits they say are so evil and to vote for people who don't care if they live or die as long as some ideological pseudo-principles are kept intact. Many times it's done with a lack of awareness of the irony or the gap between what they say about others, the government, and what they do themselves. So spare me your demands for statistics. I can hear and I can read. Look up statistics online yourself if you want to see how AL rates in so many things compared to other areas of the country.

David 2-3/ It is rather easy, and informative to just see the statistics of most things to enable one to form a reasonable opinion on a given subject. Ram made the claim that he lived in a red state,which means that it is run by and for Republicans.Most Red states receive more Federal aid than they pay into the system,which is because the majority are barely above or even below the poverty level.This means that the job skills therefor pay is at the minimum,which also means that they need and qualify for more tax dollars than they pay to our Federal Government. One should be able to come to a reasonable,therefore true estimate from that.I admit it could be put in better form but a rose by any other name---.

David Noah :

We have been paying for the uninsured going into the ER for decades. This will actually be cheaper than what is happening now. Now the person will go to a doctor get pills if needed and not wait until they are so unhealthy they need surgery.

Only time can answer that question Gossamer. We'll see in a few years.

You've reminded me of this little quote.

"You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered. "- Lyndon B. Johnson

That's a great idea and I have thought about it. I have been working for 45 years and now that I finally have a decent income it's gong to start going down, down, down. All becuase of government greed. I pay for my health insurance through my company and it is not cheap. it is however what is considered a 'cadillac plan' and so now we all have to give up some of our insurance all in the intrest of fairness.

I find it sooo interesting that I have looked all over the place on MSNBC's website about the stories now coming out on how the utlra rich-who just so happen to be buddies with Obama are not going to have to pay their fair share. People like George Soros, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates and other Billionaires are not going to be paying more in taxes. After all the bitching from the left about how Bush gave tax breaks favoring his wealthy friends that Obama supporters would be outraged. These billionaires have more money that the rest of the 'wealthy' you have so demonized combined.

We have the same old cronyism coming from the Democrats. Take that and the fact that the very people cramming this crappy healthcare plan down our throats also have been exempted from it. Those like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and the rest of Congress and the Senate plus the Union thugs. Nothing has changed Dems. Now what do you have to say that Obama is giving tax breaks to his rich friends and big campaign donors? It's the same damn thing-all the while making you think that people makeing 400k and up are not paying enough. Then look at old Al Gore preaching to all of us about paying our fair share as he tries to quickly sell his TV channel before he has to pay more in taxes. What a bunch of hyporcrites and liars. The people that voted for Obama are about the same. I am sure you will have some excuse making all this okay.

Then move out of CA and to AZ where you don't have to worry about those "freeloading Mexicans". Good riddance.

Just A C. L./ Henry suggests that you move to Az. but if you're business is in house cleaning then your competition would be quite strong as there are a lot of nice ladies there who make a living doing that and they do it well.

The ACA definitely has problems that need to be addressed and corrected as best as possible, but we desperately need some kind of plan like the ACA so the number of uninsured Americans decreases greatly. We have the most expensive healthcare in the world but not the best, and the unpaid bills of the ever-growing number of uninsured that are added to the costs for those who pay are continually inflating healthcare more and more to where eventually only the top 5% will be able to afford any healthcare.

Jeff-725167

Your lack of sense is truly amazing. Why are tea baggers so mis-informed? This administration spending has been the lowest of any administration in decades, that is a fact. No point giving you low information voters facts though.

For all you folks going on about the debt ceiling. You have this idea that raising the debt ceiling means raising the borrowing power of the government. News flash Fox viewers, raising the debt ceiling is a formality that provides congress the ability to pay the debt it has already racked up. Not passing the Debt ceiling is the same as you telling your credit card company that you will not pay your bill. You have already spent the money. That has the same effect for the country, it will damage the credit rating of the USA, which will effect every American, that includes you genius!

I know Tea Baggers are not clever enough to understand, please stop making America the laughing stock of the world. Stop hurting America.

Why would you want to hurt Americans? Oh never mind you are a Republi-con.

Not passing the Debt ceiling is the same as you telling your credit card company that you will not pay your bill. You have already spent the money.

Unbelievable! So, what you are saying is that if I am strapped for cash and I can't pay my credit card, I should have the credit card company raise my credit limit so I can take out a cash advance to pay my bill? How about QUIT spending money we don't have? How about NO raises (by way of executive order) for Congress, Judges, and Federal employees? Your lack of sense is truly amazing.

Laser Stop hurting America? Idiot can not

Just Me-4269470

Not passing the Debt ceiling is the same as you telling your credit card company that you will not pay your bill. You have already spent the money.

Unbelievable! So, what you are saying is that if I am strapped for cash and I can't pay my credit card, I should have the credit card company raise my credit limit so I can take out a cash advance to pay my bill?

Or you could just default and let your creditors take all your stuff. How's your Mandarin?

QUIT spending money we don't have?

Great tell Congress that. They are the part of Government that appropriates the spending and sets the revenue. The Executive Branch is required *by the Constitution* to abide by the spending limits set by Congress. The President doesn't get to say "I won't spend this", he can only say "I will spend it this way, unless Congress tells me differently".

Remember Congress passes the Laws, the Executive carries out the Laws. This includes spending/taxes.

jmorris

Remember Congress passes the Laws, the Executive carries out the Laws. This includes spending/taxes

And...Healthcare for all

I really do get it. The system is what annoys me. I picture the house and senate "play" fighting with each other for the cameras. Then behind the scenes, they're all partying and laughing hysterically at the little people who pay taxes and live within their means, AND supporting the livelihood of so many career politicians.

Nope, only if you want to get a 'group' rate instead of an 'individual' rate. You'll still be free to buy the outrageously expensive plans directly from the insurance companies.

So you think Obama-Car will be cheap? Just think of all the people that will get assistance to pay their premiums and who will pay for that? Nothing is free and Obama-Care is far from being free. Just last week I read that some insurance companies have increased their rates by double digits. The cost for Obama-Care will more than likely be equal to another mortgage payment for most.

I don't think many will be able to affordmuch of anything. If this is the case those new IRS Agents will be coming by to make the collections, plus interest. Giving the IRS the duty to collect these premiums is something that will dangerous. The IRS will collect the monies due the Federal Government the very same way they go after over-due taxes. The New American Police State?

jimboza

Hello flat earth society member.

You are taking crap all over the board with your rubbish, get informed. The sad thing is you will most likely teach your children this nonsense.

Actually,... there's very little mystery left,.. WHERE you take a crap...

In your diaper of course....

Then mom comes to the rescue,.. and changes you....

The constitution has not stopped Obama so far. Open your eyes and do some research.

John these fools only hears and understand what Fox tells them. The facts only confuses their reality.

What is Fox? Did your taxes go up? If they didn't you must be on welfare.

He isn't supposed to be able to do a lot of things but he has found creative ways to get around those things. Like when he could not get laws passed to get his green agenda through and all these laws that would bury businesses he forced it through via regulations.

The money Obama has wasted on bad investments in green companies...and the reason he chose those companies specifically was because his cronies had intrests in those companies and stood to make lots of money. He is no different that what you have accused Bush of. Cutting taxes for his wealthy friends. You should do some reading about how much more in taxes Obama's rich friends like Soros, Buffet, Gates and others are going to have to pay....nothing. They are not paying their fair share so Obama has given tax breaks to his rich friends. Where is the outrage over that? Then Al Gore trying to dump his tv channel before the new tax rates kicked in so he could save million in taxes. Democrats are a joke. What a bunch of hyporcrites and liars.

By the way- you will have to look somewhere other than MSNBC if you want to know what is really going on. They won't tell you on MSNBC how Obama is bending you over the table and doing the same things Bush did.

bt - Interesting your statement. I have a liberal friend who made the statement that he was for Government healthcare because he did not want to have to think about it. I was appalled since he is a smart guy and definitely not lazy in anything I interact with. Anyone who thinks this will be success needs to really evaluate all of our current social programs.

The Department of Health and Human Services has granted nearly 2,000 waivers to employers seeking relief from Obamacare’s onerous regulations. Nearly 20 percent of these waivers went to gourmet restaurants and other businesses in Nancy Pelosi’s San Francisco district. Nevada, home to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, got a blanket waiver, while Republican-controlled states like Indiana and Louisiana were denied. Even beyond the unseemly political favoritism, such arbitrary dispensations violate a host of constitutional and administrative law provisions ranging from equal protection to the “intelligible principle” required for congressional delegation of authority to cabinet agencies. Unlike 17th-century English monarchs, American presidents were not granted dispensing powers: As we’ve seen, the power to suspend a legal requirement can and will be used to arbitrarily favor the politically connected. Moreover, most of these waivers were never authorized by Congress in the first place!

My account of history will be more along the idea that Americans fell prey to the seduction of get something for nothing and put yourself under the control of those who run it.

My account of history will be more along the idea that Americans fell prey to the seduction of get something for nothing and put yourself under the control of those who run it.

Unquestionably that was Ronald "Lower Tax Rates Will Create More Revenue" Reagan and, to an even greater extent, George "We Don't Need to Fund These Two Wars or Medicare Part D" Bush. And it will take a while to get out from under it, especially when you consider the depth of the ditch into which Bush drove the country. But historically, Democratic administrations have reduced the Debt-to-GDP Ratio (as did Eisenhower, Nixon, and Ford); given time and opportunity, we'll get things back on track.

Keep on believing. I find it interesting all of the references to Republican overspending issues but no mention of the $6T O has done Which happens to be a whole lot more than recent R's combined. That said, I don't want any of them spending outside revenue income.

Wow, what a great place this will be when everyone is a democrat. LOL

Wow, what a great place this will be when everyone is a democrat.

We have a little work yet to do before that happens, but the Republicans are doing everything they can to accelerate the process.

What they don't get is that the politics of rage may work for a time as a tactic, but strategically it is a loser. Not only is it impossible to sustain, people get tired of hearing it.

Did your taxes go up? Did not the annointed one say that he would not raise taxes on the middle-class?

Billy, bobby, ray bob,.. presidents, don't raise or lower taxes,.. nor are they tasked with spending federal funds..

Please ask mom to clarify... It's important...

Good luck !!!!

I consider myself in alliance with the tea parties and have been publicly against any such thing as government run healthcare and will continue to be so.

Did your taxes go up? Did not the annointed one say that he would not raise taxes on the middle-class?

Like everyone else with a middle income, my taxes went down for three years because of the stimulus tax cut and because of the payroll tax holiday. But it was a holiday -- as in, it was never intended to be, or sold as, permanent.

BTW, what is it with the "annointed [sic] one" stuff, anyway? Does anyone know what it refers to?

Just watch O as he steps in front of a crowd and perhaps you will know.

Just watch O as he steps in front of a crowd and perhaps you will know

No help. I've seen the president speak. Have you?

I consider myself in alliance with the tea parties and have been publicly against any such thing as government run healthcare and will continue to be so.

Gosh, that's super.

Great come back!! I am in awe. Yeah, I've seen him speak. It is hard to not vomit.

Really.

Every other developed first world country has a national healthcare system in place...

A system that provides care at much lower costs, than ours does... Most often,.. with better results, and with higher rates of access...

What planet were you talking about???

And nearly every other country in the World that has a notional healthcare system has an economy worse that ours. Spain,Ireland,England,France,Italy,Greece and Portugal. Just to name a few.

EVERY??

Not hardly,... I'll give you Canada,Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Australia, Finland,Switzerland,

all with relatively healthy economies.. All with a national healthcare system...

Sorry billy bob..... You lose.... again....

The World Health Organization ranks United States' health care last among wealthy nations.

The relation of universal health care access to a country's economic condition is nil. For one thing, all of the countries on slobon list have had strong economies at one time or another. For another, their current difficulties are unrelated to health care. Ireland, for example, has a less regulated economy than ours. The economy collapsed because a commercial real estate bubble burst and the Irish taxpayers were left to bail out banks while the government was forced to institute an austerity policy.

WHO?? Another socialist organization reference used as an authoritative statement. Why does everyone come hear for quality healthcare?

And it will only be worse when government is the monopoly.

And it will only be worse when government is the monopoly.

Who has proposed that? What does it mean? Even in countries with socialized medicine, the government hardly monopolizes the health care sector.

Health care in Canada is delivered through a publicly funded health care system, which is mostly free at the point of use and has most services provided by private entities.^[2] It is guided by the provisions of the Canada Health Act of 1984.^[3] The government assures the quality of care through federal standards. The government does not participate in day-to-day care or collect any information about an individual's health, which remains confidential between a person and his or her physician. Canada's provincially based Medicare systems are cost-effective partly because of their administrative simplicity. In each province each doctor handles the insurance claim against the provincial insurer. There is no need for the person who accesses health care to be involved in billing and reclaim. Private insurance is only a minimal part of the overall health care system.

This came from Wiki since most liberals believe it is as true as Funk and Wagnalls. I can bet only the very wealthy are able to use private insurance. This year I began to feel the tide turn at my company. I believe I am less than 5 years from them no longer paying any portion of my insurance forcing me to use a large part of disposable income or succumbing to the government behemoth. The sad part is I consider the portion they pay as part of my compensation. As they push more and more of the cost off on me, it is in essence a pay cut. For all you idiots that think this is good, examine a few thoughts. How much do you like going to the DVM or the SS office? Ask yourself what government program has ever been run effectively and efficiently? Do you not see how screwed up HUD, The Dept of Ed, etc. are?? My Dad is a retired vet, he does everything he can to avoid medical care at the VA. And it is not because of the personnel it is because of the bureaucracy. Are we really this blind??

Funny. I take my dad to the VA all the time. He receives excellent treatment from caring professionals. Your pillorying of government makes me wonder - are you an anarchist? You think SS, HUD, education departments should just disappear?

Not an anarchist. Anarchy is just as bad for society as too much government. I am pillorying excessive government. Again, this was my VA statement " And it is not because of the personnel it is because of the bureaucracy." I am sure the people are professional. It has been my experience that rank and file generally are, it is the nonsensical bureaucracy that drives him insane.

Yes, get rid of all the stuff FEDERAL government is involved in. If a state feels its people need those services them they can provide them along with the funding. How much sense does it make to send all of our money to Washington, remove a large percentage to cover the administration, waste and graft and then divvy it back? Also, with a centralized government, you have people who are far removed from the source at issue and they end up not caring (or not understanding) which is why all of you liberals decided we needed it in the first place.

Well you can thank your fellow Middle Class Tax Payer for their contribution to your Health Insurance Premium.

The new Flexible Spending Account Tax limits the amount of money that workers can set aside tax-free for medical costs. ObamaCare sets the cap at $2,500 in order to collect another $13 billion from taxpayers. (Previously there was no cap; however some employers limited the amount worker could set aside.)

Those who find the accounts most valuable are those with the greatest health needs – parents of special needs children, people who have had organ transplants and who must take maintenance drugs, and others facing major medical expenses.

Beginning January 1, ObamaCare also tightens the screws on Itemized Medical Deductions. The law raises the threshold for allowed deductions from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%, further burdening those with the largest medical expenses by limiting how much of these costs they can deduct on their taxes. Hit to these taxpayers: $19 billion

They will be kicking about $32 Billion per year to help pay for YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE .

Sorry.

Here is the link.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemarieturner/2013/01/02/as-2013-begins-get-ready-for-an-obamacare-tax-onslaught/

That is yet to be determined. If is not "affordable" by your standards it is going to be interesting to see how you like paying a penalty tax if you reject insurance!

Logically speaking,.. why would somebody feel the responsible thing to do, would be to go without healthcare insurance ???

We all know, that at some point in life,... it is going to be a necessity...

Maybe teapublicans just aren't in to the whole "personal responsibility" thing.... LOL!!!

Penalty tax would be much cheaper..

Bpme - I wouldn't be expecting the state of Florida to be setting up any exchanges anytime soon. You are aware that Florida led the 26 state lawsuit against 0bama taxcare?? Right?? Florida is one of the states that returned its money to the govt that Health & Human Services wanted them to set up exchanges with. 1 1/2 years ago at healthcare.gov you could go online and see what your premium would be under 0-taxcare. They were higher than I was paying as a 1 person business already. If you can get a rate of $450 you should be jumping on it. You will never get that from 0-taxcare. The govt has never done anything as cheaply as private business. (Think $100 screwdrivers??)

Boog...

Unfortunately, I do know that Florida is going to fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo.

Remember, those were only quoted prices. I would be thrilled to pay only $500.00 per month for health insurance. In Florida, you have to apply to various companies, get medically underwritten, medical records, hospital records, prescription history, phone interviews.. etc

You either get accepted or rejected. If approved, the company then gives you the final rate which can be uprated 150% from the original quote.

Bpme - good luck my man. We have a high deductible plan in PA & CO and it has gone up 60% since 0-taxcare was passed in 2010. The insurance company has done nothing but collect premiums because we are lucky to have been healthy and I haven't gone over my high deductible yet. I have to carry insurance b/c it's irresponsible to my family not to and I am 55. You are getting the benefit of living in a great state with good weather & no state income tax. Think of that when you finally get your health care and are paying high premiums like the rest of us. Again - good luck.

BOOG, I see, your health care rates had not skyrocketed until that dirty commie bastard Obama passed his health care law??? Funny, cause my rates have been going through the roof for last 15 years but apparently that is his fault as well.

Boog, Thanks for the good wishes. I will reserve comment on what a great state Florida is... Yes, beaches bars, boating and babes..

Please remember, we have not even learned how to vote yet...

Oz - no that would be George Bush's fault if you listen to the 0-zero regime. You gotta get with the talking points. Blame everything on Bush and the ignorant masses will believe it. It worked in 2 POTUS elections - should work for high Health Care costs that you have had before 0-taxcare.

"O-zero?" Aren't you the funny guy! Health care premiums and costs have risen well over a hundred percent since 2000 - an easily verified fact. I didn't hear anyone here blame Bush, other than the snarky reference made by you. If there is blame to be assessed, perhaps it is because nothing was done during those years. Also, I have yet to hear anyone claim that health care will be free - maybe just a little more accessible and affordable. Perhaps you should read or listen to Wendel Potter to get a better feel about the current state of our health care system.

Concentrated heavily in red states...

Sadly,.. 150 years ago,.. Lincoln blew it...

So because you can't afford to buy something on the free market (I do use that term loosely in regards to insurance since it is not truly free market) you want me to pay for it?????

Phillipqb...

Perhaps you can point out exactly which statement, paragraph, sentence or punctuation mark that I stated that I wanted someone else to pay for my insurance.

I am speaking to the non availability of heath insurance if you have have a pre-existing condition.

Regardless of the price.

bpme - my remarks were not directed at you.

PHILLIP, Exactly how do you figure that??? Tax rates in the U.S. are lower now then at anytime in the last 60 years. Go and checkout the tax rates during the Eisenhower years. Much higher than what we pay now. And knock of the tortured rhetoric about the government confiscating your property. Taxes are part of the cost of living in a civilized, sopthisticated society. I hear there are still some islands in the South Pacific where you can live tax free.

And I'm amused at your little rants about "paying for the health care of others". Did you bitch like this when Dubya started two wars, promising the American people that Iraq would "only" cost the taxpayer 40 to 50 Billion??? How come you don't whine about the billions that we will be paying for for years to come? I would much rather "waste" my tax dollars on seeing that my fellow citizens receive decent health care than pissing it away on senseless wars that kill our young people, and for what I'd like to know. This is not the Middle Ages, we don't allow people to die in the streets for want of health care. And the fact is, that providing health care for people is far less expensive than the typical emergency room health care these people so often wind up getting. Please, prove to us that you are not as heartless an SOB as you sound.

Oz - Confiscation can come in other forms than taxes. Consider the government print twice as much money as what is in the system in order to spend more than they tax. This results in a devaluing of the dollars in your wallet by half. You now have to pay 2 dollars for what 1 dollar use to buy. You have just had a huge tax increase. In regards to lowest tax rates, all we heard about Bush's tax cuts were how they were for the wealthy. How can that be now that preserving them is preventing a tax increase on everyone?

PHILLIP, Then perhaps Republicans should have paid closer attention during the 8 years that Bush spent us into ruin. Funny, I never even heard of the Tea Party until about 15 minutes after Obama was sworn in. Besides, a brilliant leader once said, "deficits don't matter".

Somehow liberals have the idea we were satisfied with Bush. There was much Bush did that I did not like. There is just so much more that O has done and has said he will do that I do not like. Throwing up Bush is like trying to make two wrongs make a right.

And yet you voted for Romney.

The alternative was worse.

Kinda bitter about losing on Obama Care, huh fella??? Get used to it, it's the law of the land. And perhaps try and pretend that you are an empathetic human being who is actually happy in the knowledge that your fellow citzens are finally going to receive decent health. I know you'll only be pretending but try it sometime. With practice, you might even develop a heart.

Kinda bitter about losing on Obama Care, huh fella??? Get used to it, it's the law of the land. And perhaps try and pretend that you are an empathetic human being who is actually happy in the knowledge that your fellow citzens are finally going to receive decent health. I know you'll only be pretending but try it sometime. With practice, you might even develop a heart.

Best hope:

-You don't develop a dread disease

-That if you DO (heaven forbid) develop a dread disease, you start saving a ton of cash now in order to book a flight to find a specialist to take care of you. They ain't gonna be in the US in 5 years I can tell you that

Good luck Ozzie. And no, I did not "lose" as I am not a republican, nor a democrat. *winks*

All of this is so stupid. There are countless countries in this world that are socialist. There are very few that are true democratic republics, which the USA was at one time. For all of you who want socialism, move there, but leave this small bastion of sanity alone. What I am seeing is, if you continue to get your way, there will not be a country for me. How many places to practice socialism do you need????

Yea, spoken like a true Reich Wing Reactionary. You'll be working to pay off Dubya's wars so you can rest easy with that knowledge. Pleasant dreams.

It really is sad the way that people like you think. Instead of saying that you think that every American in this country deserves decent health care and that it would be criminal negligence to let them go without, you denigrate them and act as if your freedoms are being trampled on. There are lot's of things my tax dollars go to that I don't like but I don't get to pick and choose where they go to. You might want to ask yourself why virtually every other advanced nation on this planet provides health care for ALL their citizens and why we, the richest nation that has ever existed is still operationing with a mindset that comes from the Dark Ages???

Exactly Ozzie. Well stated.

I hate this "deserve" word. If everyone could get in line for what they truly deserve, it would be a short line. I am not acting like my freedoms are being trampled, I am clearly stating and declaring that they are not only being trampled but are on the way out. Please, instead of basing your ideas of what government should be allowed to do to the populace on an issue that has emotional basis, base them on what the Constitution says they can do. It is very, very clear that the most limited government viable was the best for all. In a short 100 years, with an extremely small government, America raised up not only its beginning inhabitants standard of living, but those that came here and had the will and tenacity to better themselves. It has only been in the last 50 that everyone has decided they are a victim.

Maybe the government isn't supposed to be spending your tax dollars on those things you don't like. Maybe you should read the Constitution and find out. Maybe once you do, you will be active in trying to reverse the course.

The reason we don't provide healthcare (or didn't) is because it is not the role of government. You seem to think well, think about how well government programs are run. Do you really believe this will be better than what we have? Do you really believe it will not put power over the people to a few? Think about how SS is used. At election time, you get endless commercials about how one side wants to take away you SS benefits. So people vote out of fear rather than conscious thought. Is that good for America? Does suppressing the dialog by shutting down the viewpoints of the other side through fear lead us to the best solutions? As part of my job we have to do a lot of problem solving. One method is to brainstorm. One of the rules is that you do not make comment on the ideas while generating them. Doing so shuts down the creative process.

If fixing these issues (many more than healthcare) were the top priority for libs, they would be allowing dissenting opinion since not one of us is as smart as all of us.