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Subscribe to RSSWhile much remains unknown about the Sandy Hook school shooting, we're learning more about one of the victims – gunman Adam Lanza's mother, who owned all of the weapons recovered at the scene. NBC's Mike Isikoff reports, and four of her friends join TODAY's Savannah Guthrie to talk about her life and her relationship with her son.
By many accounts, Adam Lanza didn’t fit in. Family friends and neighbors describe a young man who went far beyond shy in avoiding people, who had few or no friends, and who dressed unlike most of peers, buttoning up his shirt to the top and carrying a briefcase to high school instead of a backpack.
Several people, including Ellen Adriani, a friend of his mother, Nancy Lanza, have now said he had Asperger’s, a type of autism, although there’s been no official medical confirmation of this.
“Nancy was always concerned about Adam because of his Asperger’s and the typical behavior that goes along with that,” Adriani told NBC News.
If Adam Lanza did have Asperger’s syndrome or another form of autism, he committed the unfathomable murders of 20 children, six school staff and his own mother despite the condition, not because of it, experts agree.
The kind of carefully planned, violent attack like the killings in Newtown, Conn., on Friday would be out of character for someone with Asperger’s, said autism expert Travis Thompson, Ph.D., of the Special Education Program at the University of Minnesota.
“I have known a lot of people with Asperger’s and I have never known one who is violent. They are very anxious,” Thompson said. “They have a lot of problems with anxiety and they have problems with relationships with other people too but that doesn’t translate into violence. When they are little kids, they have tantrums because they don’t know what to do and they feel adults don’t understand them. When they become older they develop mechanisms and since they are usually very verbal they can ask questions.”
Parents of kids with Asperger’s worry about the discrimination that could come from all the speculation.
“I think a lot of parents who are dealing with this already are awash with anxiety and uncertainty, and when someone sits in front of the camera and says people like my son are dangerous because of an association with a condition, it’s scary,” says Ron Fournier, editorial director at National Journal, who has written several recent high-profile commentaries about his son with Asperger’s.
Julie Steck, a child and pediatric psychologist in private practice in Indianapolis, said people with a developmental disorder like autism are more likely to have a range of other physical and mental disorders.
That’s in part because of the genetics, in part because of the stress of coping with the disorder itself, she said.
Family friend Adriani said Adam Lanza also had an unusual condition where he didn’t feel physical pain. “If he were to cut himself or even if he fell down or if he injured himself he wouldn’t necessarily know how severe it was because usually the pain is, oh something’s wrong. So if he cut himself he wouldn’t even necessarily know it,” she said.
Richard Novia, who was Lanza’s tech club adviser at Newtown High School, backed that detail in an interview with the Associated Press. "If that boy would've burned himself, he would not have known it or felt it physically," Novia said.
It's not clear to experts if that is tied to Asperger's. "Individuals with Asperger’s often have poorly modulated responses to pain—they may over-react to something which seems minor to others but totally block out or not respond to something we would see as painful," says Steck. "However, I am not familiar with there being a correlation with not feeling or being able to respond to pain at all."
Russell Hanoman, another friend of Nancy Lanza, described Adam as being obviously uncomfortable around other people.
“I remember when I first met him, he deliberately stood maybe six feet away from me and took three exaggerated steps toward me, stuck out his hand, shook it, put it back, and three exaggerated steps back,” Hanoman told NBC News.
Thompson also said it is unlikely a person with Asperger’s would have plotted something like Friday’s shootings over a long period of time without telling someone about it.
“I am not saying a person with Asperger’s would not do something like this,” he said. “It is possible a person with Asperger’s could have done something like this but so might someone who was depressed or someone with schizophrenia.” Or someone with no diagnosed mental illness at all.
Descriptions of Lanza’s painfully awkward ways have fueled speculation that he might have been lashing out after a childhood of having been bullied.
But there’s no evidence that Lanza was bullied, and Thompson doesn’t see the connection between any possible bullying and the murders. “Why would he go in and kill a bunch of little children?” Thompson asked.
One thing psychologists do agree on – mental health is still not adequately diagnosed or treated in the United States, and especially not among young people.“We need to destigmatize it so that people seek treatment for their children and for themselves. I think obviously that funding is a huge issue,” said Steck, the Indianapolis child and pediatric psychologist. “It is very under recognized and under financed and many of the programs out there are not delivered in a very effective manner.”
Connecticut Gov. Dan Malloy agrees.
“Mental illness has long been relegated to a different discussion, as has physical health,” Malloy said at a Hartford, Conn., news conference Monday about the shootings. “It is not a distinction that I think serves our country. We need to begin in earnest the process of removing that distinction.”
NBC News’ Michael Isikoff contributed to this report.
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But for the abnormal neurological issues, and related behaviours, this never would have happened. His obsessions, raging, abnormal emotional and physical reactions to the world around him, are part of this and denial doesn't help.
Stop being so certain that people can't distinguish between a set and a sub-set. Whatever his "official" diagnosis turns out to have been, malfucntions, perhaps of differing etiology, in the same genetic networks account for overlapping and related conditions. His rage flowed from his abnormal interactions with his world.
I think what this all boils down to is lack of empathy a key factor in what might have caused this scenario.
I am not an expert on AS but in the research I have done that a key traight in diagnosing AS is lack of empathy. Which is also a key trait to a serial killer.
I'm sure it would not be hard to argue that it must have been some kind of factor. Not being able to empathize with the product of his actions.
Mental health is a "red herring" in this debate. Concentrating on that will mean NOTHING will get done!
BAN high-capacity magazines and assault weapons NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
A person on the Autism spectrum has feelings, but is simply not able to express them well. That may translate to a non-autistic person as having lack of empathy. On the other hand, a true lack of empathy would be characteristic of a psychopath. I would think that problem was related to the shootings, not autism.
It's not a lack of empathy-it is not knowing how to socially appropriately express feelings and emotions.
You have a point, haggis. While I do see that mental health has an obvious place in this discussion and keeping guns out of the hands of people who aren't stable enough to be safe with them, and that we need to make help available for those with issue and their families, I can't see any reason anyone in civilian life (not law enforcement or military) needs something that is an "assault" rifle. Seriously, it isn't for hunting (well, unless you count hunting down crowds of people) and there are many other guns to use in competition and shows. The secondary gun market needs better regulation, too.
It is a multifaceted approach that is needed. Better education about signs of mental illness, help for families so they can reasonably remove guns from violent or unstable family whether they have a diagnosis or not, reasonable gun laws/training that aren't designed to sell the most guns possible no matter who is buying, accountability for those who own guns...if you leave your gun out and your child gets it and shoots someone it is your fault, not just an accident...and no assault rifles for the public. There are things that could have been done long ago, but politics, money, and fear and stopped us. How many more have to die before we make some changes?
This is all good discussion. I by no means tried to say that Aperger's = killer but like many factors involved with this tragedy it the culmination or maybe the synergy of a handful of things that made this possible.
Guns laws by themselves will not stop people from killing eachother, will it help? Sure it will. Having better ways of flagging possible people from going off the deep end also won't cure this by itself but it will help. This is a deep complex problem with american society and there is no silver bullet to fix this.
@haggis- even if assault weapons were already banned there wouldn't necessarily be a reduction in gun-related crimes. Besides, there's so many assault weapons out there someone would either have one hidden beneath their bed or would get one on the black market that would emerge.
In this country it's estimated that 20% of the population struggles with mental illness; 40% of them don't get the services they need for a variety of reasons. If we treat the subject like a red herring, as you say, and divert our attention upon the existence of assault weapons we'll miss the larger picture. I don't entirely disagree with you, but am just saying we need to examine this problem from many social and psychological angles before we can make appropriate changes.
@haggis,
Could someone please define what an assault weapon is before we go banning them? I would really like know. If it's how the AWB defined it...that's a joke... Do you mean you want to ban military looking guns? Or do you want to ban fully automatic guns? Semi-automatic guns? Couldn't all guns really be considered assault guns?
My son has Aspergers and he is very shy and gentle. He finds it hard to look at people when he communicates and feels awkward and unsure socially. He tests off the charts intellectually so we have to provide extra interesting curriculum for him.
Briefly, we tried private and public schools, but because he was socially awkward, he couldn't make friends very easily or defend himself when kids would misunderstand him.
We homeschool seeing that he is able to learn better and most importantly not develop a low self esteem because children and even well meaning teachers have treated him as "different." When he occasionally gets to feeling badly about being "different" I just remind him of Steve Job's slogan, "Think Different!" It worked well for him.
For example, when my son attended public middle school for a while, he chose a very advanced book to read and report on in 8th grade, Dante's Inferno, a college level reading. The kid's snickered and didn't know how to handle his book report and most likely didn't even understand the work. My feeling was why subject my son to that kind of treatment that hurt his feelings and discouraged his need for advanced learning?
So instead of forcing a square peg in a round hole as the saying goes, we let him be who he is and feel good about himself and homeschooling allows us to do this. He is 15 and takes college level classes now.
To help him with social skills we take him to outside sports and clubs to interact with kids and other adults. Besides, when you step out of your house you socialize all the time...at the grocery store, movies, restaurants, etc.
We hope he will grow into his area of genius with our support and that he will feel good about himself. At this point, he feels good about his quirkiness and his ability to think "differently" and we truly feel there is a place for him in society, we just don't rush things.
So please do not judge individuals with Aspergers as "dangerous" because of this one poor child who obviously didn't get the help and guidance he needed to thrive.
My son has a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome. It bothers me that there is now this supposed "connection" between Asperger's Syndrome and this mass murder. There is some truth to the fact that people with Asperger's Syndrome lack emphathy, but not to the extent that they are sociopaths. My son doesn't dress like a typical 15 year old, nor act like a typical 15 year old, and in many ways it's a good thing. He also doesn't care what other teenagers think about him - could care less. But he would NEVER consider going into any school and shooting people. Furthermore, my husband has a couple of hunting rifles, but he keeps them locked up and away from the house in one of his many secret hiding places. I don't even know where he keeps them. And, he keeps the guns hidden and apart from the hidden ammunition. We don't think our children would ever try to hurt anyone, but why on earth would anyone have guns in their home that anyone could easily access? And why does anyone need an assault rifle?
This whole episode has left me physically ill whenever I'm forced to think about it. My heart breaks for those left behind.
bottom line- all of the ideas are correct in taking a step forward. banning high apacity magazines, addressing and identifying mental illness, educating parents on what to look for and seek treatment (versus trying it on their own), etc are all the right thing to do.
BUT, soon enough the NRA and it's lobby- followed by the minions who believe the government is about to storm each and every one's home will leak a story that there was a reason why this woman was carrying an arsenal- trust me, soon enough we'll start hearing stories that she was petrified of the ex husband (sources unknown) which will lead to a campaign on women protecting themselves....
It's called misdirection - let's make sure it does not happen.
It is interesting that the cost of mental health counseling is mentioned, because that is true for most people, but an exhaustive search for treatment would not have been out of reach for this family.
However, in this family's case, the article says that the mother was saying her son had Asberger's syndrome, but either because of privacy laws or because there really was no diagnosis, the article says, "there’s been no official medical confirmation of this." Various other mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia, might look like autism to somebody who was not trained. Even to trained professionals, often five different professionals will come up with five different diagnoses. Often, it is only after a long time of therapy and treatment of symptoms that some kind of realistic diagnosis is made, and a treatment plan is begun.
But what was this mother doing? She was taking this son to gun ranges. If she had a diagnosis of any kind, no matter what syndrome, and he was in treatment, there still should have been a flag that he wasn't getting along with people suddenly after 2009. What does this say about the state of the mother's mental health? We assume she had a "friendly" divorce from the boy's father, and that she was always happy, but what really was going on? The boy was not happy; was he the only one in the family that somehow did not acknowledge his pain? Since 2009, instead of going to gun ranges, the family probably should have been in family therapy.
Another problem is that after age 18, parents have little say. With the "right to privacy" and the "individual rights" of our great country, a parent can find their hands tied if there is a problem developing in a young adult. A young person can volunteer to have a short commitment for a week for evaluation and therapy, but what if it isn't that immediately serious and they don't want to volunteer? On top of that, there is a form of psychosis that can hit young men in their early 20s, when those young men had looked normal before that. If the parents can't do anything to help them, there must be some sort of incident before they are committed on a temporary basis for evaluation and the start of therapy. At the very least, a parent should ask for a mental health ombudsman's office (if one exists in one's state), and find out what can be done.
Agreed. Even if we don't get a significant amount of resistance to the discussion from the NRA and others in the "gun lobby", it's going to be a complicated process and will need to be thought through. Each issue you mention has it's own sub elements (ie., Mental Illness identification...what does that look like? What exactly constitutes an "assault rifle"? How high capacity is a too high for a magazine?) A lot to think about.
...and that's the concern.
He could have been misdiagnosed for one thing.Aspergers is not caused by a chemical imbalance of the brain like bi polar and schizophrenia.A person suffering from a bi polar condition has manic stages of highs and lows.Schizophrenics can be paranoid and or aggressive due to the voices that they perceive are in their head.I'd say that this young man was a schizophrenic with a genius IQ.Most schizophrenics are very smart and manipulative.It's a sad condition for the patient and their families.Most won't stay on their medicine which makes their condition worse each time they quit taking it.People should read up on these mental disorders and illnesses as the brain is what gives humans their emotions,conscious and reasoning skills.
I've treated many Asperger's kids. None have been violent. There was something else in addition to this going on. Let's wait for more evidence. The last thing these kids need is people running from them and calling them mass murderers, or parents yanking their kids out of a school because they have Asperger's kids there.
Haggisbingo.
I don't think he was an NRA member. I'd bet he didn't subscribe to American Rifleman. He was not a member of the local gun club. I will agree with intelligent people, (That omits you) it was not Aspergers syndrome which kicked off this episode of insane behavior. I think I'll wait for the full forensic diagnosis. All you other "experts" just jump in.
In his behaviors, Adam was extremely abjectly abnormal. If other people were able to recognize that his behavior was consistently strange, it makes one wonder why his parents did not seek to put him into a formal setting where he might have received possible treatment for his severe mental illness. This may have given doctors the opportunity to assess that Adam was a danger to society. Both of his parents had more than adequate financial resources to seek help for their consistently very odd and socially estranged son.
This killer in waiting seemed to have been a combination of a mentally ill person and an individual without a moral conscience and soul.
Asperger's people do not "lack empathy." They lack social sensibility. It's a different matter. Often they are overly sensitive to the world, not insensitive to it, so they tend to shut down. Everything is just so vivid. And that's why I think the experts are right. Something else was happening to Adam beyond any autism spectrum disorder.
>Jay.. I was getting ready to post that. Any qualified mental health professional knows that Asperger's children are not characterized by a lack of empathy. They struggle with comprehending feelings of others and responding in a socially appropriate manner but that is not a lack of empathy.
I challenge anyone to show me where in the DSM diagnostic criteria does it say lack of empathy??????? Some people talk out their rear ends and don't actually know what they are talking about.
I worked with a child diagnosed with Asperger's and a fellow student of his was sick with his head down so he brought the student water and poured it on him to help. He also would find dead animals (no he didn't kill them) and bring them in to be fixed, some were pretty mangled by predators but he didn't get that they couldn't be put back together. He didn't grasp the social cues but he still felt love and caring.
All of this aside, I have not specifically heard from a mental health professional that this young man was definitely diagnosed with Asperger's or any other disorder.
Oh for goodness sake, for crying out loud and everything else I can think of. If you think for one minute people with Asperger's syndrome don't have empathy then you had best get out and about and around them.
Also, there are so many levels of severity with Asperger's there's no one single way a person with it will act. I've never been diagnosed but I score VERY high on the test as does one of my daughters. Every time I know someone is suffering my heart bleeds for them. Around here we just call it an over-active empathy gland and work at keeping our emotions on a more appropriate level.
On the other hand, a sociopath doesn't empathize with others. They may pretend to but they don't really.
When I was reading the part about how someone with Asberger's probably couldn't carry out a plan like that I did have to wonder. Then when it got to the part about how they wouldn't keep it a secret I almost laughed out loud. That is so true! It would be difficult at best for a functional autistic person not to be jumping up and down and telling everyone what they were going to do.
The poor kid, I can't help but feel for him because I know in his twisted mind he had to be tormented beyond belief. If you saw someone with paranoid schizophrenia during a psychotic period you'd know what I mean. Whatever their fears and anxiety are, no matter how unfounded, are 100% real to them. It's agonizing seeing someone like that.
Why doesn't anyone address a REAL problem? It's the anti-depressants that are SUPPOSED to be banned (were very briefly before the FDA bowed to lobbyists and financial dippings in the pool) for people under the age of 25. WHY? Because it CAUSES HOMICIDAL and SUICIDAL yearnings! Read the lables and warnings.
Here's the thing.. guns have been around since the birth of the U.S. But mass shootings have not. When did mass killings begin to escalate? Why gee Wally, around the same time that anti-depressant use began to escalate!
and here in THIS article, the docs are saying we need to treat MORE people. GOOD ON YER DOCS! Get em ALL on drugs! Heck docs are already saying EVERYONE is depressed, why it hurts! Can't sleep? must be depression! Can't eat? Must be depression. does your body ache? Must be depression? Someone die recently? Oh lord no need to be SAD about it! Take an anti-depressant! Nevermind the lack of NUTRITION in American food causing bodies to ache, causing lack of sleep, lack of feeling energetic, and even causing sadness, becuase NOTHING nutritional is going to the brain. Fix it with a pill. And the chemical companies are all laughing hysterically that the focus is on guns.
EVERY mass shooting, and even lesser (Chiefs player was on anti-depressants, did you know that? the one who shot his girlfriend and then himself. Heck, a lot of these kinds of murders are left out of the equation) has had the person who committed the act ON ANTI-DEPRESSANTS! Go back and check, Columbine had a boy on anti-depressants, VA Tech shooter was on anti-depressants, the Omaha mall shooter was on anti-depressants, the Batman movie shooter in Colorado was on anti-depressants, Across the nation this has been the case. And NO ONE is catching this. Lord knows the doctors in this articile who recommend MORE treatment aren't catching this!
http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2012/07/mass-murders-and-the-ssris-connection-2417899.html
http://afrafrontpagenews.blogspot.com/2012/07/dr-ann-blake-tracy-antidepressants-two.html
You can also connect with International Coalition for Drug Awareness on Facebook
I think Adam Lanza's mother lied to her friends and neighbors in an effort to explain her son's behavior. No doctor has yet been found to confirm her Aspergers claim.
My nephew has Asperger's Syndrome and is overall a gentle young man. Anything on the autism spectrum would have been identified long ago and there would be documentation of it. Schizophrenia, on the other hand, frequently doesn't manifest symptoms until the late teens or early 20's. Paranoid Schizophrenia may partially explain what this person did. We may never know exactly what went wrong in this person's life ... but I know that his mother (who purchased all three guns he took into the school AFTER 2009) was "nuts" to go to shooting ranges to bond with her son.
The lack of empathy theory is just a theory. There are also studies showing that we have more empathy than "typical" people. My response to the killings is here. Hardly unempathetic. Links to studies re: autism and empathy are here:
Of course, the syndrome is no longer called Asperger's, but something else, for reasons not clear to me, but I will adopt the term used by the article, which is still the one most folks with the syndrome prefer. One way that people with Asperger's differ from people without the syndrome is that "Aspies" are capable of intense focus on a given subject. When they direct this focus to positive endeavors, they can be the genius creators who move humankind forward. Unfortunately, this young man's mother chose to push him to direct his focus to marksmanship, an incredibly poor choice on her part.
Jay and Mike:
At this point, only God knows what Adam had or by whom he was possesed. For sure, whatever serious issues and demons he was struggling with, his abnormalites made him impervious to the suffering that he knew he would cause by killing 20 young children and 6 adults.
>Walker.. I agree, whatever he was suffering with led him down a horrific path and we will likely never know the root causes. It's just sad that so many had to senselessly lose their lives and now people are grasping at any one thing to blame it on in an effort to restore their own sense of well being. Seldom do tragedies happen solely due to one issue.
Yeah go ahead and ban guns. Then they'll make homemade bombs and instead of some survivors after shootings, there will be NO survivors.
Mike,
No doubt, Adam's issues were complex. Many people are blaming Hollywood and our culture. However, there are young people that are exposed to the violence in our video games, movies, etc who never committ an act of violence. Of course, this is not an endorsement of the absurd and ever increasing violence in our culture. What is perplexing is that there were those who had the opportunity to observe Adam, such as his family and others, and who realized that he had persistent psychatric problems. However, the help that Adam needed was never obtained. Without reasonable understanding, Adam's "place in the community" was put first. Thus, now 20 young children and six adults are dead.
To rich samford: My son also has Aspergers and show's more empathy then a lot of "normal" kids I know. From the description of Lanza's friends and family, Adam Lanza had MANY more issue's then just Aspergers, if he even had Aspergers to begin with. Some of his traits do suggest ASD, but other behaviors don't. I think it's important for people who have NO experience or education with ASD to NOT try and connect the dots on this. You really don't know what you're talking about.
The Asperger's may have caused him to be ostracized and that rejection may have made him angry and introverted.
As a parent of a child with Asperger's, they are naturally introverted, it is not caused by rejection. They just have no imagination and no natural flow in communication. They FEEL out of place interacting and communicating with others, and FEEL more comfortable being alone. My son isn't all that much too awkward, other kids don't pick on him, in fact alot of kids say hello and goodbye to him. But he refuses to communicate the same response back or even acknowledge their presence. Not all will fit in as well as my son, and I have seen plenty who don't. Anger and depression are definitely major concerns though.
I take exception to no imagination as a person on the spectrum. I have quite a good imagination and needed extra help with social cues. That is ALL. My imagination was and is just fine. In some ways, I had to be extra imaginative to entertain myself through the loneliness. Please choose your words carefully.
Many, many people with aspergers have great imaginations. I know in my case, the comment by cappy is quite correct. I more or less fit in until around age 10; I was open, everyone thought I was wierd, but most people were okay with that. For some reason, that changed as we started going through puberty. I had to learn via bullying which behaviors were acceptable and which weren't. By high school, I figured out that the only way to avoid bullying is to completely shut out the social world around you.
Don't talk, don't move, avoid everyone as much as possible. If this shooting was in fact influenced by his aspergers, then we need to acknowledge this. It should be a positive reminder that we need to treat other people with kindness and respect, no matter how strange they may seem to us. This should in no way be a reason for society to discriminate against people with aspergers more than we already do.
Cappy-
AND - Monkeys may fly out of your nether regions
Lets all have a huge dose of speculation, based on very few facts....
Maybe it was his mother being a teacher, No (She wasn't)
Maybe it was all the kids being kindergartners, No (they're first graders)
Just as the media was in a rush to try to give us so-called facts, why keep proposing huge speculations when very few details are in?
Remember Cho at Virginia Tech? They still don't know why he did it.
The point is to me not that he had this particular disorder or that one, or whether he had a diagnosis or not. It is that it was known he had serious issues and his mother kept guns in the house. I think that is the point of this situation. Some depressed people withdraw and hide in bed and haven't even got the energy to get up. Some, however, tend to be irritable and angry as well as other typical depressive symptoms. Some feel like just giving up and some have resentment for various reasons. Many disorders/syndromes/diseases are this way, and my point is that if I have a family member who is in bed seriously depressed, irritably, depressed, swinging to mania, angry, hopeless, unstable, lacks empathy, lacks coping skills and feels desperate, or a combination I am sure not going to keep guns in my house. It is time for common sense!
Yes, everyone on these posts are EXPERTS in the field of autism and know EXACTLY what transpired that day or several days before that to lead this young man to commit this horrific act. As the Connecticut state police officer said at one of the press conferences, there is a great deal of misinformation about the incident and it would behoove us all to wait until THEY complete their investigation. Speculation does nothing more than create more anguish for the families of the victims. I even heard someone say that the mother of the shooter "deserved what happended to her" because she bought her son the guns he used to kill 20 children. Told this person I was appalled by her comment and reminded her that (1) the shooter's mother did not buy the guns for her son and (2) she was just as much a victim as those kids. Nothing released by law enforcement has indicated anything to the contrary. And that a 24 year old has lost HIS mother at the hands of his brother.
Cappy, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. I LOATHE people like you, who are stuck in the STUPID mindset, that just because somebody is an introvert, that they are prone to violence.
People like you are SHEEP, who believe that "only introverts and quiet people are psycho killers dur hur". @!$%# THAT. ANYBODY can be a killer, and you extroverts need to get down off your high horse, off your pedestals, and STOP labelling killers as introverted.
I swear, every single time something like this happens, people stereotype and make the same damn generalizations "they were quiet, they were a loner, they were introverted." Good lord, how judgemental can you "people" be?????
Need I remind you that many famous serial killers were extroverts? Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, for example?
So you all can just STFU about introverts being prone to violence and killers. When you spew out that BS, it is an INSULT to all of us sane introverts.
Mental disorders can co-exist with one another. In fact, it's pretty common. We may never know, but this kid may have had another mental condition that was not diagnosed along with the Aspergers.
Given his age, it might be that he developed schizophrenia that was undiagnosed and perhaps masked by his primar diagnosis of Aspergers. Just thinkin.
RVNDOC, it does seem more like the behavior of a paranoid schizophrenic. But we will never know. By the way, schizophrenics who are not of the paranoid type usually are disorganized and wouldn't be able to plan well enough to carry out an elaborate act like this.
Several people, including Ellen Adriani, a friend of his mother, Nancy Lanza, have now said he had Asperger’s, a type of autism, although there’s been no official medical confirmation of this.
Autism Spectrum disorders are exactly that, on a spectrum from low to high. Not all are the same.
Amen Isis-2
Does a psychological disorder name matter? Are we now saying that Schiz people are WAY more likely to commit murders? Wow, we should take them all and lock them up then huh? Let's just speculate away on all this. by the way.. who the HECK said that people with Aspergers have no feelings or emotions? (I won't even dignify the no imagination part.) Just because people ALL express emotions and feelings and EVEN imagination DIFFERENTLY doesn't mean there's a lack of it. NOR does the fact that people communicate differently make them ANY less communicative. HOLY COW anyone ever been somewhere where they don't speak the language? COMMUNICATE! For GOD'S SAKE.. I'm both deaf AND blind, but it doesn't prevent ALTERNATIVE forms of communication. And lord knows I was diagnosed with all KINDs of crap before it ever came to light that I couldn't see or hear like other people. Phhhhhhhtttt. This boy's mental differences do NOT MATTER. The ACT matters. What CAUSED it matters. Even ANDREA YATES who drowned her children tried to tell her doctor that the anti-depressant was giving her homicidal thoughts. But hey, let's just ignore that completely.
http://rense.com/general58/ssuic.htm
LAKid
Both thumbs up, LAKid!
I thought that recently Asperger's was removed from " the list " of mental disorders which the Psychiatric Association found to be a valid mental state diagnosis, and such symptoms were returned to the diagnosis of Autism. This has occurred over the past few months.
My understanding is not that it was removed as much as incorporated into a broader heading of disorders along the spectrum (i.e., made less of a separate diagnosis).
Aspergers has always been considered high functioning autism.Now the diagnosis will be autism only-though for my kid I will always think of him as a person with Aspergers as he does not identify with autistics.
I do not think the medical community is doing a service by merging Asperger's with autism.
People with Asperger's want to relate but have trouble doing so. Autism seems to involve a lack of need to relate unless it is needed for immediate purpose such as getting a reward or food or avoiding punishment.
I think the killer's mother might have rather believed her son had Asperger's rather than autism,people want to believe the best. I think there were much worse things going on with the home life of this kid than has come out so far. The mother probably wanted to protect her kid.
They merged Asperger's with other Spectrum Disorders to make sure that they get funding for treatment.
This is a patently ridiculous conclusion and obviously slanted by/for parents of kids w/ Asperger's to avoid offending anyone, which is the very least of our priorities considering what happened the other day. People w/ Asperger's have great difficulty empathising w/ others. It's a well known fact that they lack empathy. Thatwould seem to imply that their consciences are severely impaired as well...one leads to the other. This isn't necessarily the case across the board, of course, but the increasing frequency of the Asperger's diagnosis should cause great concern...especially if those diagnosed have access to guns. Their social skills are poor to nonexistent, which is likely to lead to anger, paranoia, resentment and hatred towards others...now add in the violent video games and movies component, (as Asperger's kids seem to have even more affinity for those than others do), and you have a recipe for disaster. We need mental health screening in all schools, specifically testing for lack of empathy/antisocial characteristics, and when we find it, we need to do something about it.
The kids I know with Asperger's are kind and caring, and have a sense of humor. So you are wrong. But, the ones I know also don't go to a shooting range with their mom!!!!!!!!!!
Excuse me but reading social cues is in no way related to a lack of empathy. If you had any you would stop spreading misinformation and hate.
We don't lack empathy, we're just confused about what kind of things trigger what feelings in other people. To make it worse, too many people don't talk about what upsets them, and just assume we know the unspoken rules; but to an aspie, 'unspoken rule' is an oxymoron.
How can they be kind and caring with a sense of humor when they possess no empathy and throw tantrums when they don't like or don't understand something simple? I'm with Lorelei, kids showing no empathy and lack of social skills should be pulled and evaluated. I don't have the answer, but something has to be done with these mentally ill people. They may be cute when they are little, but not so much when they are society's problem
It just isn't true that all people on the autism spectrum lack empathy. Since you have never been inside the mind of someone with Asperger's how could you possible know? When I was a child, my mom said that when she cried or was sad and I was a small child, I would go stand near her but do nothing. This was very instructive to my mom.....she knew (as I later confirmed) that I knew she was sad and felt awful. EMPATHY. I just had no idea what to DO to comfort her so I stood nearby. A lack of appropriate action does not imply a lack of empathy. It suggests a lack of knowledge as to how to CONVEY empathy.
Shep, it is not that they don't have empathy. They can read other peoples emotions through body language and facial expressions. They take people at their word. You look at someone who says they are fine and see they are not. Someone on the spectrum assumes they are fine. They can't read the non-verbal cues. Some, as Go seems to be, appear to be able to pick up on what those closest to them feel. Their reaction is different because they don't know what to say/say something to help that is not helpful. You or I would ask what is wrong. A person with Asperberger's may ask if you saw the cat do a flip. They are telling you something that made them happy/laugh hoping it will cheer you up. Many of the children I have worked with have empathy.
I have worked with a number of children on the spectrum. I don't see them being capable of doing this. So many have hard and fast rules that can not be broken. In the right settings or right homes they have been taught from the time they are little you do not hurt other people. They may hurt those around them in a tantrum but I don't see them planning and carrying out an event like this. The impulsivity that may lead to something like shooting his mother would have been over and the continuation of this would have been very difficult. Most of these kids will crash after an emotional event like that and not have the energy or ability to plan the continuation.
On the other hand, some kids are diagnosed with asperger's when they are younger and later get a more appropriate diagnosis. Many times parents will not accept/reveal the new diagnosis because it is a less socially acceptable one.
I hope they do come out with what really happened in this case and why. I have heard questions about the gunman being autistic and am concerned how the impression that autism makes someone dangerous will affect kids who already have a hard time fitting in. I would feel safer in a school full of autistic children than in a school full of neurotypical kids who come from families with guns.
I think you have autism and Asperger's transposed.
There are engineers and surgeons who have Asperger's.
Also the killer probably fits the label of "schizophrenia" better than either of the other two terms although he might have had one of the two syndromes and then had a schizophrenic breakdown.
David, I believe it would be difficult for someone in the midst of a "schizophrenic breakdown" to plan and execute such an act. Based upon what law enforcement has released to date about the sequence of events, it would be difficult for someone suffering from schizophrenic delusions at the time to methodically load and reload a semi automatic weapon and fire it. This young man knew what he was doing at the time. As a prior poster relayed, those who have studied Virginia Tech still don't know why Cho did what he did.
Lorelei - you are wrong. This is a common misconception about Asperger's. Sociopaths/Psychopaths have no empathy. Aspies have trouble EXPRESSING empathy, which is not to say they don't feel it. In fact, many Aspies are hyper-empathetic and suffer paralysis in the expression of such overwhelming emotion.
LAkid, what little you know about schizophrenia is sad. worse, is that you then make a declaration its not, because of the ability to reload a weapon. have you ever worked an adult acute psych facility? study mental illness? no? so you are full of crap.
Late adolescence and early adulthood are peak periods for the onset of schizophrenia,[2] critical years in a young adult's social and vocational development.[11] In 40% of men and 23% of women diagnosed with schizophrenia, the condition manifested itself before the age of 19.[12] To minimize the developmental disruption associated with schizophrenia, much work has recently been done to identify and treat the prodromal (pre-onset) phase of the illness, which has been detected up to 30 months before the onset of symptoms.[11] Those who go on to develop schizophrenia may experience transient or self-limiting psychotic symptoms[13] and the non-specific symptoms of social withdrawal, irritability, dysphoria,[14] and clumsiness[15] during the prodromal phase.
A prodrome for schizophrenia is the period of decreased functioning that is postulated to correlate with the onset of psychotic symptoms. The concept has been reconsidered as the pathways to emerging psychosis have been investigated since the mid-1990s.[1] One example of the international paradigms aimed at researching the prodrome is the North American Prodrome Longitudinal Study (NAPLS). This study is concerned with brain development, hormones, and neuropsychological functions that may play a role in risk for and prevention of mental illness in young adulthood. The term at risk mental state is sometimes preferred, as a prodromal period cannot be confirmed unless the emergence of the condition has occurred. (Also see early psychosis.)
florida's baker act, ie, involuntary commitment to a psych facility for ppl at high risk to harm self or others?
do you know how many asperger's pt are in the facilities? a number ranging close to zero. unless, they have comorbidities of other mental illnesses, including impulse control disorders.
once again, lakid = ignorance. do some research and stop posting crap.
Psychopathy and Sociopathy have nothing to do with Asperger's.
Psychopath's are wired differently. They are 1% of the population and exist on every continent, race, etc.
They can be identified as early as age 6.
Loreli, do you even know someone with Asperger's? I have someone who actually lives in my house who has it. My child is 9 and is not lacking empathy at all. In fact, he's the first person to comfort someone who feels badly. He has trouble understanding sometimes that things he says (he's very blunt, think Sheldon Cooper) hut people's feelings. But he's a typical Aspie who thinks the truth should be told no matter what. While his social skills aren't the greatest, he does his best and gets help via therapy, and actually has a little group of friends he hangs out with. He does throw tantrums from time to time, but that's due to frustration and not knowing how to express himself otherwise. And since we brought a service dog into the house, those tantrums have declined greatly. My child with Asperger's is just as kind and loving as my other children who don't have it. Please educate yourself before you write such ignorance.
So the Witch Hunt begins, Psychology is too objective to be consider a stable science, too many so called different professional point of view. Yes mental health need address & more residential living needs to put in place. However lets not throw them all into one boiling pot & this is what happens with schools system & with state employees.
I know it is no excuse, however as I hear people saying how good the parents were, & blah blah, & blah. I stood in schools & church and heard people priase my step-mother on what a wonderful job she was doing as mother & how well behave children were. Only if they knew what was going behide close door & thick curtains or about the beating, berating, & blood running from our ears, backs & legs, now add a touch of mental illness. Trust me the mental & emotional abuse can be worst then physical.
My bright Honor Roll ASD ADHD 13 year old son took the NRA safety course and now shoots .22 long rifle at our local gun & rifle club. We've been doing this for two years, and he's earned his (I think, sorry just not up on his current level) Sharpshooter badge 2nd class. We thought he would benefit from 1) learning that a real gun is not a Nerf gun and can be deadly; 2) responsibility; 3) focus and concentration; 4) sense of accomplishment; 5) belonging to a youth team; and, if we are so lucky, 6) he can compete in higher level competitions and possibly win a college scholarship for a college with a rifle team.
Am I afraid that he'll go and shoot up his middle school? Hell, no. He understands and values life. He has empathy for others - reading social cues is another issue for him, but he does well in school overall. He is not likely to strike back at bullies - except that one time a kid punched him several times on the bus, and then he finally did punch back. And our guns at home are locked up, ammo separate from the pistols.
A poster a few threads back was right that too many people are speculating about this tragedy. Let's let the facts surface and reveal what issues this man had and what may have caused him to kill so many innocents and himself.
Adam Lanza's mom was concerned about it, either. Just saying.
If you look at the state of mental health in our society today, I would not put much stock in what "experts" say.
Based on what?
Fund mental health. It's what I do for a living. We use evidenced based approaches. Things have changed a lot since the 70's.
Whatever, Eric.
Teach morality and a respect for God and the concept of sin, acceptable behaviors, et al.
All of these things have been snuffed out in the name of logic and modernism since the 1960s.
NO! I know several kids with Asperger's. Not violent! Shame on those that are pointing towards this. Why don't you find out how much time he spent alone? How much time did he spend playing violent video games and watching violent TV shows or movies by himself? Has anyone ever seen Black Ops? Kids get excited over killing someone violently- it's the goal of the game. And that's just one of the many. That's not OK! And go ahead, game entusiasts - start the argument. But tell me then, what's the difference between 30 years ago and today? VIOLENCE 24/7. We played ring around the rosy and on our swingset all day. What do kids do now?
In Star Wars when Aniken Skywalker turned to the dark side, didn't he go into a class room of small students and kill them all? I remember seeing that scene and it was horrifying....just a thought.
And that's a movie, Laura, so what is your point? You take your notion of reality from movies?
If your kid likes Anakin Skywalker beware he could be a mass murderer........ (sarcasm)
I believe the morsel of relation is that someone thought of the idea (fiction or not), and it was demonstrated to the world in a movie.
The concept of moral scandal seems to be totally disregarded by the money-driven society.
Have you ever played black ops? A game where the graphics, hit detection, and gameplay, are about as realistic as a Michael Bay film?
I find most of the people who blame video games have little to no experience with video games themselves.
Some children with AS may develop anxiety or depression in young adulthood.
Other conditions that often co-exist with Asperger syndrome are Attention
Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), tic disorders (such as Tourette
syndrome), depression, anxiety disorders, and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
(OCD).
Asperger syndrome, also sometimes called high-functioning autism (HFA), is
viewed as being on the mild end of the ASD spectrum with symptoms that differ in
degree from autistic disorder.
What is autism spectrum disorder (ASD)?
Autism is a group of developmental brain disorders, collectively called autism spectrum disorder (ASD). The term "spectrum" refers to the wide range of symptoms, skills, and levels of impairment, or disability, that children with ASD can have. Some children are mildly impaired by their symptoms, but others are severely disabled.
ASD is diagnosed according to guidelines listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition - Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR).1 The manual currently defines five disorders, sometimes called pervasive developmental disorders (PDDs), as ASD:
This information packet will focus on autism, Asperger syndrome, and PDD-NOS, with brief descriptions of Rett syndrome and CDD in the section, "Related disorders." Information can also be found on the Eunice Kennedy Shriver National Institute of Child Health and Human Development website and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Let us all learn from this horrific situation, that life has many facets. We all need to challange ourselves to learn more about mental health diseases and contribute to our society by helping others with these challenges. This is only one aspect of what is the real cause of this unbearable, unexceptable situation in Connecticut. Let us all pray for each other that we can be open to each others needs.
My daughter is 17 and she has Asperger's. She is NOT mentally ill and children with Asperger's are not mentally ill. They are naturally introverted and have a problem fitting into to their age group but they fit in fine with children younger as well as those older and adults. They are VERY structured and crave structure. If anything a child with Asperger's would have ran from the situation, they wouldn't have created it. You need to get your facts straight
Thank you careforall for citing the information and providing the articles. I know everyone was extremely affected by this tragedy and we all would love to pinpoint the cause and ultimately place blame somewhere. This is a coping mechanism that is completely innate in ALMOST all of us.
The point I would like to make is that there is never an absolute available to label ALL people in any given category, whether it is those who have various mental illness or those who battle with Autism Spectrum Disorders. We can speculate and guess and infer, but the true cause of this horrific event may never come to light. All we can do is make reasonable assumptions based on ALL facts surrounding this very ill young man; facts which NONE of us have at this point.
What I see here is almost all healthy discussion amongst concerned people. We all would like answers, but my thoughts are with the parents and families of those children and staff at Sandy Hook who are the ones that deserve to have answers that they realistically may never get. It makes my heart ache for them to have lost their loved ones so tragically, including the Lanza family.
When I say ALMOST all healthy discussion, the discussion I would consider unhealthy is that of ignorance and stereotyping. I am a mom of an amazing 9 year old boy with Asperger's/ADHD. I am also a behavior therapist for children with ASD. Some of the comments surrounding the diagnoses are not only ignorant and inaccurate, but sad. Do we not see that the inaccuracies surrounding this horrible tragedy and others nationwide, are what fuel the fires? Why do we need to constantly pit ourselves against each other? Just so we can say - I'm right! I have all of the answers!! Personally, I know I will never have all of the answers to anything in this lifetime, but I will continue to do my best to research and educate myself rather than pass judgement like a fool.
FYI- my son, as well as many of the children I work with, are literally just trying to make heads or tails of the consistent and complex information that floods their brains minute by minute. They are most often, extremely intelligent and have trouble processing so much detail, while under constant pressure from outside sources; peers, teachers, parents etc. Our society in general has created a "normal" range for every single facet of our environment. Kids with social and developmental delays that are characteristics of ASD, are not likely to EVER fit what our society perceives as "normal" or even "typical", as we like to say alternatively in this field. I find the older I get and more open I try to be open minded to anyone and anything, without passing judgement, I am paralyzed by the absurdity and behavior of the adults who CONSTANTLY pass judgement on our children and each other. Its disgusting. Maybe a good start would be to set an appropriate example for ALL our kids, even those who are perceived as "misfits" in this fantasy world that some think is so perfect!
I don't ever expect anyone to conform for my benefit, especially children. None of us should. But what I do expect, is that if I set an example and support that example with proper guidance and reward, I will find the result is resonable and appropriate, based on what I provided to help that individual learn. Teaching and learning are key. If we teach the right lessons and they are heard and learned by our children and peers, maybe we are at least moving in the right direction. On the other hand, if we teach nothing that can be used as tools in society and instead rely on our kids, especially those with any challenges, to figure things out for themselves, how can we possibly expect any specific outcome?
Ignoring or denying any issues with our children, leaves us as parents, negligent and irresponsible. However, to label and stigmatize those who have gone and gotten medical attention or counseling, leaves us with more and more people who are in fact being judged and who will be less likely to seek help for fear of that judgement by society. Maybe to support each other as human beings instead of pointing out each shortcoming, would be a better strategy if we want to decrease violence and anger, you think??
BTW - my son and the many children I have worked with that have Aspergers, are the most loving, caring, intelligent and - are you sitting down? - IMAGINATIVE people I have ever encountered. And those with Autism cannot be catagorized, as I have not met two individuals who are even remotely dealing with identical challenges! Autism is probably one of the least likely of disorders where we would find a general symptom presentation that is consistent with any other. Why not leave it to the professionals to state the facts rather than stating every ignorant opinion one may have as fact? Just a thought!
Something that is really bothering me about this tragedy is that Adam Lanza is being assessed as "mentally ill" or as having aspergers syndrome. I think he was neither.
Obviously there was something wrong with him. I think he did have a genetic disability, judging from his appearance and the reports that he had virtually no affect including pain sensation it might have been Fragile X syndrome. He wasn't mentally ill, he was mentally impaired. He wasn't "acting in," he wasn't acting at all. He was unable to function from an early age and should have been under professional supervision, either in an institution or assigned to a social worker. The mother was obviously in denial and uncooperative with authorities regarding her son's condition.
It does sound as if the mother self diagnosed the child. And may not have had it right. If he was not medically/psychologically evaluated we may never know what was actually wrong with him. He was at an age when schizophrenia typically starts, who knows? I do wonder why his obvious problems were not being professionally managed, its not like they couldn't afford it, as is the case for so many in this country.
Sadly I agree-the mother may have tried to do the right thing-but could not have failed her kid, and those killed on friday,any more had she willfully tried.
I don't get how "doing the right thing" for him included having all those guns at home where he could get to them and making sure he knew how to use them when he did get them. Sorry, but that isn't parenting and it was a seriously tragic lack of judgement and common sense. If you aren't going to get your child the help he needs and you know, as everyone else does around him, that he has serious issues, you don't keep guns around.
Doing the right thing would be if she had her son properly diagnosed and treated instead of "managing on her own." She had the money and the means to do it. There are so many people out there who struggle with mental issues, want help, but can't afford to get it or don't have proper access to it.
Asperger's is not a mental illness. It is a spectrum disorder of Autism. Children with Asperger's have high intelligence and are naturally introverted but do well with kids younger than them, as well as those older and adults. Its their age group that they have problems communicating with. My daughter has Asperger's and is extremely well adapted. They crave structure. This child was calous and angry. It was evident by the fact that he shot his own mother four times. He had to be "watched" at school, he was seeing a chilld pyschologist, were all reasons that his mother should have kept the guns locked and she should have been the only person who knew where the key was. His mother had just as much of a hand in these murders as he did because she failed to protect the community from her son.....
I think it's important to be remember that Asperger’s does not define the whole person. All individuals with Asperger’s don’t share the same personality constructs. People are defined by a disability any more than people are defined by race, ethnicity, of gender. Mr. Lanza could have suffered from a range of other mental health and personality issues.
To focus on the issue of Asperger’s is to miss the point.
Whatever his challenges, once he became fixated on a course of action, the presence of an automatic
weapon made it difficult to introduce a pause in his distorted thinking. Unfortunately, unlike conventional rifles or handguns, automatic weapons are created to be… automatic. In this regard, Mr. Lanza is not so different than any number of mass killers who go on shooting sprees. Once the shooting began, the discharging weapon became self-reinforcing.
STOP BLAMING HIS MOTHER! What about his father? Maybe neither one of them is "to blame." How about realizing that at age 20, he was legally an adult and responsible for his own actions? He shot his mother to death while she was in bed; can't you please feel sorry for her as one of his victims?
Has anyone OFFICIALLY come out and said that this young man has been diagnosed, received treatment, etc.?
No.
Wait until the Laza family (what remains of it) and the police have to say. Everything else is SPECULATION.
The LA Times ran a story today saying that genetic testing will be done on Adam Lanza and Fragile X is one of the conditions that will be investigated.
As for Nancy Lanza, RIP. News today describes her efforts to have her son moved into a supervised care situation. As a parent myself, I have a hard time understanding why she taught him to shoot and encouraged his gun use, also why she allowed him to live in a windowless den and play violent video games every waking hour for years. It sounds as though she was about 5 years too late in coming around to reality.
I think there's a fine line between eugenics and responsible sociobiology. This is a discussion that needs to take place but I doubt that it will because it will touch on nutrition, reproduction, pollution, material culture and consumerism, overpopulation, family law, religion - virtually every aspect of modern life.
Individuals with an autistic spectrum disorder can have a range of executive functioning or decision-making challenges. Compromised executive functioning can result in disinhibition which can lead to poor emotional/behavioral dysregulation. So while its fair to say it isn't a cause, any more then mental health disorders cause violence, aspberger's can be a factor.
Search YouTube for "3 shooters, Sandy Hook" (skip 1st five min) to see evidence of two men caught by police; the poor kid with autism was probably framed in this planned "drill" to be used for gun control.
Really, Richard - that is what you are going with - the "conspiracy theory" supported by a You tube video.
As an MD, even you have to admit that is grasping at straws.
When the survivors, child witnesses, first responders other than police and others start coming forward about the "3 shooters", then I might consider that as viable evidence that there was another shooter or shooters, but not based upon some "you tube" video. Also, I'm a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, own a rifle, and am not a proponent of "general gun control", although I don't see the need for mega-clips or military style assault weapons.
You are entitled to your opinion, but my goodness, before you go and call me "naive", come up with better evidence!
Richard, I cannot believe someone who uses the initials MD and MPH (you have a masters in public health, really) would perpetuate such horse hockey at a time like this. So the anti gun lobby would sanction the murder of 20 6 and 7 year olds to further their mission?! Really? I suppose you also believe the government blew up the Twin Towers....
Pretty low on your part.
Richard, your idea is disgusting, and frankly I figured someone would come up with that idea since some see others as as cold as they are. No one sacrificed those children for gun control unless it was the shooter, and I doubt that was his plan.
You know, for someone supposedly educated you would think you would know anyone police aren't positive about who they are and why they are there are often handcuffed to question and then released. If you had happened to be walking by the school or smoking in teh woods that day and they saw you they would have grabbed you, cuffed you since you might have just shot a group of kids, and questioned you. Are you the shooter? Okay then...seriously. That could have been anyone in the woods or near the school, and the child saying a man was on the ground means nothing. Seriously, add something helpful or stop saying silly things.
Other media sources have reported that the man brought out of the woods and handcuffed had been cutting wood nearby. He was initially detained and then released after it was determined he was unrelated to the shooting.
For now, we may just assume that this was a wacko who just happened to have aspergers.
That being said, he was undoubtedly bullied to hell and back through middle and high school, and I wouldn't be surpirsed if his resentment towards the world was a major factor in this.
I know, I have aspergers.
I have asperger's as well, and I can tell you that I do not even like it kill insects and rarely do. I never even took a magnifier to ants as a kid! I felt too bad for them. It is NOT TRUE that kids on the spectrum have no empathy. It is more that they do not know how to respond to the pain of others appropriately. I will say though that it is not just bullying that happens more commonly to kids on the autism spectrum. They are also far more likely to be beaten up and sexually abused. If Adam WAS tortured as a child and never got help, the resentment could have festered and created depression, rage or mental illness.
Thank you for your comment, Go-Obama, and thanks to crubs also. It's pretty clear that there was more going on with Adam than just Asperger's--if even that is true.
Until we hear from a reliable medical source that Adam Lanza had been formally diagnosed with Asperger's, I will believe that the boy had more serious issues and was being coddled by his mother -- who wanted to be a successful parent, at all costs.
I also wonder about the mental health of a mother who would teach an obviously-ill child to shoot weapons, and raise him inside a "survival at all costs" home.
Is it possible that a mentally-ill child's condition can be worsened by their environment? I believe so.
It can. When children live in good homes and learn positive coping strategies from their parents, they do much better than children who live in homes with other mentally ill people. These learned behaviors carry over to other areas ie school and community. Some children only have behaviors at home because they are taught in other settings what is expected and socially acceptable behavior. They have role models for those behaviors in those other settings. Once they go home at night, they fall back to the behavior patterns that work in the home.
STOP BLAMING HIS MOTHER! Where do you get all that stuff you're making up, parallelcooler? You know nothing about this dead woman whose son shot her to death while she was sleeping in bed.
And neither do you, JayEll. But what is known is that Mom was a gun enthusiast, some say 'survivalist', had multiple weapons and ammunition in the home, and at a minimum took her son to the shooting range with her. Still unknown if he actually fired the weapons. Her son had some type of mental and/or emotional issues. Just go ask the Dad. Those are the facts so far. Enough that any reasonable person could conclude that Mom contributed to the incident.
dman1115, your mom contributed to you, too. Do you hold her accountable for all your misdeeds?
It is a knee-jerk response in our society to go looking to blame mom. It's true I don't know anything about the dead woman, but I also don't put a lot of stock in what neighbors are saying. It may be all gossip! Yes, let's ask the dad.
It all falls on the parents. We don't know how that kid was raised..
I'm wondering why the father gave the mother so much money to get away from her..
And David, you are privy to the terms and conditions of their divorce? This is a terrible tragedy and I am getting pretty tired of all the "experts" postulating on why his parents divorced, his mother was a terrible mother, etc., etc. Unless you are a law enforcement officer investigating this case (and as such wouldn't be on these posts) or a close member of the Lanza family - and I don't mean the ex-sister in law who hadn't seen the boy since he was 3 (talk about wanting your 15 minutes of fame) - keep your bizzare speculations to yourself. You do nothing more than add to the anguish of the people of Newtown.
Thank you media for manufacturing baseless unease about this common and difficult mental condition. Those who struggle to overcome its daily trials owe you a boon.
As a mother to a 4 year old with Asbergers I can say in my experience Aspie kids do not typically display aggression. If anything they are more introverted than normal and far less likely to put themselves into an "aggressor" role. While I think it is possible he had Asbergers I think there was far more going on with this young man than that alone.
It seems that this man was a very calculating, controlling and spoiled rat. I he were alive I am sure that he would have recieved life in prison. What a horrible controlling person he was with his parents. He died loud!
Indeed. His dad is a very powerful man, and it was reported his mother was receiving alimony in the amount of $300,000 a month, ouch!
Having said that, it was also reported the only time his mother had any interaction with him was at the shooting range, go figure.
What was Rain Man's condition? Is it similar? He wasn't violent, but he got excited and he couldn't be left alone. How bad does a person have to be before they are put in an institution?
I often wonder at what point they would put idiot females in institutions....seems a double standard for them. Lots of moronic women running around out there and everyone's ok with it.
Thank you! I am tired of the media blaming this Mass Murderer behavior on a mental illness. This individual dressed up on Battle Dress Uniform, wore a load bearing vest full of magazines, several weapons, and dynamically made his way into the school. Excuse me, these are not the premeditated actions of a mentally ill individual, but those of a domestic terrorist.
1) Aspergers/Autism = developmental disability
2) Mental illness = sickness of the mind
While one may frequently have both, a person with a developmental disability does not always have mental illness any more than a person with a mental illness is found to be developmentally disabled. The two are not exclusive.
I have personally known people with completely formed brains that have mental illness - from schizophrenia to bipolar to depression to anxiety. I have also known people without fully formed brains who will NEVER have the capacity to be mentally ill - from "vegetable status" to low functioning institutionalized autistic. And I've personally known people with both -- co-morbid autism and depression and/or ADHD and/or ADD and/or bi-polar.
Developmental disability doesn't CAUSE one to be violent mentally ill, but it may CONTRIBUTE to the violent mental illness itself in certain cases.
IMHO, Adam Lanza can be summed up as a sick soul that happened to have been diagnosed as an Aspie.
I hope all of those classifications excite and comfort you.
I wouldn't say that they excite and comfort me. They are only a means to a correct diagnosis end.
Correct classification (diagnosis) is a must if the correct treatment is to match the condition. Or would our society prefer to have more Ritalin that is very effective treating the mental illness ADHD but has psychosis as one of its side effects prescribed to an Aspie instead? Or what about the neurotypical bi-polar patient that is classified (again diagnosed) as an Aspie and their family is told they only need talk therapy instead of lithium when lithium would be a much more appropriate treatment? Classification isn't necessary in all areas of life, but there are times when it is more than appropriate. This is one of them.
Okay...I think, for Americans, the classification of others is just for fun...a way for them to feel superior to others. Same as with the negroes in the past. Even when those people are "treated"...society is still upset. I guess the "treatment" is just so the "better sort" can harass the "inferior sort" without fear of retaliation. Americans like easy victims....just look at our warmongering.
I have a nephew with Aspergers. I can't say if all children that have been diagnosed with this condition follow the same patterns, but my nephew can fall on both ends of the spectrum on any given day. He is now 20 and still lives at home with his parents. He is unable to drive or hold down a job but can stay by himself for short periods of time. He also does not have a "normal" response to pain or painful circumstances or understand the negative consequences to certain actions. He has cut or burned himself before and not reacted in any way. My biggest concern for him is he does seem to feel extreme anger. I don't say rage, as he never seems out of control, but he can get extremely angry if his routine is interrupted or he has not been told of something in advance.
One situation comes to mind several years ago. His parents had put in a pool and they were all outside swimming when his younger brother said something that set him off. He very calmly took ahold of his little brother and held him under the water while telling him to stop talking to him and leave him alone. While bickering is a normal response with brothers, his father had to jump into the water and force him to let go of his youngest son. He did not seem to understand that he could have caused his brother to drown with his actions.
Therapy and medications help, but it is a constant struggle to adjust the dosage to allow him to function and have a somewhat normal life. I'm not saying that all kids with autism or aspergers have all of the same symptoms. I have seen firsthand what a child that has been medically diagnosed and is on medication can be capable of and I can only say if someone has aspergers and isn't diagnosed or receiving any kind of treatment, they could very well be capable of what we saw happen this past Friday.
What you have described is an impulsive response to avoid something(brother talking). Behaviorally, that is nothing close to what Adam Lanza did.
American stupidity amazes me! No law, classification, or governmental action will stop this type of violence. I wonder how many thousands of years it will take Americans to figure out that people don''t like being harassed 24/7. C'mon....because this kid was shy, dressed up, and wasn't Mr. Socialite, everyone had a right to harass him? This is the real issue, not all the nonsense about gun rights, etc....A person who has been pestered for years like this kid probably was will find a way for revenge other than guns.
I don't condone killing kids or innocent people, but when a society looks the other way and allows people to be treated this way for life, without any legal or social recourse, you never know how the pent up anger is going to be released. He was entitled to that anger too...but because there was no acceptable outlet for it, it was eventually expressed in horrific ways.
Told you this kid was a wackjob. Also want to know what Meds he was on! Or had he been taken off them, and after you've already screwed up his already screwed up brain chemestry then you wonder why they do crap like this.
Partly agree with you. he didn't have to be a whackjob at all. Anti-depressants are prescribed for EVERYthing in this country. THAT would have screwed up his brain chemistry. and the docs in this article want to treat MORE people! Yippee!
I have a loving, caring son with Aspergers that continues to bless us everyday with his good nature and kindness. We may be very lucky as he certainly would be judged as very high functioning and especially as he grew older.He was always very brave and reached out himself to find ways to meet people even though it was hard early on and through perseverence now has many friends and is happily adjusting to his first year in Collge.
I had a neighbor in California who had Asperger's. She was bright and worked as an elementary school teacher. When I met her she had been laid off from teaching. She told me, as a result of her Asperger's, she felt no empathy for other people. She was the most violent and abusive person I had ever met other than clients I had who were charged with murder. Her mother was a lawyer in northern California and would have little to do with her. The same with her brother. She was NUTS! and the reason I decided to move. The police were at her place all the time as a result of the fights she would get in with her boyfriend and other people. I would have never been surprised if I was told she had obtained a gun and killed someone...she was that out of control and violent.
I had a neighbor exactly like that, but I don't think she was classified as a "retard," "autistic," or "Aspie." She actually went to William & Mary. She would continually harass my wife and I. There was no keeping a low profile, no way to avoid her harassment. She was a blonde-eyed, blonde-haired Aryan American princess. She will probably be handed everything for the rest of her life.....doesn't matter that she's a retard...all about how she looks!
There was more to your neighbor's story than Asperger's.
Tired....yup, I think so too....we thought she was a schizophreniac with a mood disorder.
People can have Asperger's and also have mental illness. One does not preclude the other. Many forms of mental illness can make someone violent and aggressive--manic/depressive psychosis, paranoid schizophrenia, antisocial personality disorder...