The morning-after pill should be available OTC. Even regular low-dosage BCPs should be as easy to get as aspirin. We can buy Claritin and narcotic cough medicine off the shelf so why not?

Providing free birth control of all forms to any and all American women would solve 90% of our social problems. The majority of criminal and abusive behavior starts when the perpetrator begins life as an unwanted child.

It's not a perfect solution, but it would save us 100's of billions of dollars a year in the long run.

There was actually a study performed a few years ago that noted that there had been a remarkable drop in big city crimminal activity that corresponded with the increased availability of birth control measures.

well...there's already a song bout it...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcLazPauA1c

AG: Seperate issue, but what narcotic cough syrup do you think is OTC?????

Children raising children. It struck me IMMEDIATELY that the talk was about PEDIATRICIANS issuing the prescriptions.

Isn't a pediatrician where you take a CHILD for treatment? If a child is having sex, there is a definite need for more than birth control.

An adult having sex with a minor is a crime, but settles nothing in case of pregnancy.

Two minors having sex resulting in pregnancy....if legal custody and support requirements were placed on the parents of the children having sex, I sure bet there'd be a lot less issue here.

In the meantime, I think Ben Franklin said it, "an ounce of prevention saves a pound of cure."

RB and Sho would undoubtedly rather see their taxes going to support welfare babies, right? WRONG!

CoRavensFan - and young men need to learn to keep their dicks in their pants and their pants zipped. IT TAKES TWO FOLKS>

RB - So you are okay being forced to pay, through your tax dollars for welfare for unwed mothers who you don't know, am not related to, nor are you sleeping with? It's much cheaper to provide birth control than to pay for a pregnancy, birth & 18 years of support.

It's so nice to see that your birth control is a public matter now .

I agree Rich-it is in our best interests as a country to allow individuals to have children when they are ready emotionally, financially, etc. We would see far fewer abused/abandoned/impoverished children. In a sense it's a choice between paying up front for the birth control, or after the fact for years of welfare to support the children after they are born.

I wonder how Katleen would feel if it was her daughter or granddaughter seeking such pills after being raped.

I believe Ms. Sebelius has forgotten that her role is not about Power over people, but about helping people in this country; even young teens!

Yet why is the head of our Dept of Agriculture making such decisions when she should be working on turning back the tide of GMO foods, same ones that We The People Do not want!

Abstinence doesn't work. Human beings are among the most sexual creatures on the planet, next to bonobos. And children act on impulse, not "common sense."

Although I do love how in this day and age, it's all the GIRL'S fault for getting pregnant, and not the BOY'S fault for not being able to control his own penis.

The decay progress of society continues unabated.

There. I fixed it.

I agree that this recommendation is a good idea. Even date rape can happen to any young girl. To have the ability to take the "morning after pill" without the need to wait for a doctor appointment, missing school to go to a doctor's appointment, or the need to talk about it immediately after with a doctor, which can be very humiliating and intimidating for a teen, can be very helpful, in my opinion. PREVENTING a pregnancy with this type of birth control can definitely reduce the number of abortion procedures performed in the long run, and it is really no different than other types of birth control, in that it does not terminate an established pregnancy, but rather prevents a pregnancy from occurring.

I am not a fan of putting young girls on the daily birth control pill as a precaution IN CASE they at some point become sexually active, as I have known some parents to do, as I think that is sending the message that it is expected they will become sexually active, and in my opinion, gives parental approval for that. I believe that unmarried teens should not become sexually active...they are not emotionally mature enough to handle that type of relationship, nor are they usually emotionally/financially capable of handling the possible result of parenthood. However, this type of prescription can be viewed as an "emergency measure" should some type of rape occur, and if a teen willingly has sex and thus decides to use it, so be it. I do think the parents have the right to know the prescription is filled/used though, so they can monitor their daughter for any possible problems or side effects, as well as help the teen through the trauma if a date rape, etc., or address the needs of a teen who has become willingly sexually active.

@RB - Because helping the unfortunate get birth control is considerably cheaper than helping the unfortunate raise children they can't afford and/or support foster care systems?

Unless, of course, you're taking the standard republican stance that's essentially promoting homeless and starving children (no birth control, no abortions, no welfare, no gay adoption; thusly creating a system where tons of unwanted children people can't afford are born, but cutting the adopter pool really short).

RB - Cause you're an idiot! Do you want to pay for a child on welfare, or for birth control!?!?!?!

Here let me fix it: The decaying ethos, pathos, and logos for the progressives of society continues unabated.

Jan - why should tax payers be forced to pay for either one??

"Just in case"??? It's not like you trip and accidentally find yourself pregnant...this isn't a broken bone... It requires a very specific act to get pregnant...an act that, if avoided, guarantees you won't get pregnant...so what's the emergency? Are we trying to cater to loose women? This is why we have STDs... We're human beings...that means we're able to control ourselves unlike animals. If someone gets pregnant, it's because of the choices they made. If you're old enough to get pregnant, you're old enough to deal with the consequences. How some people would look to murder their own child disgusts me. The same people who flip out about people hunting bambie, an animal, have no problem stopping the heartbeat inside them of their unborn child...absolutely disgusting. Our nation has become a depraved and sickening culture...Rome pursued perversion in society as well right before their collapse...

Why do we have to support the children anyway? It does not have to be either or - that is a weak brained individual's thought process...if the entitlements are not there then the women would think twice about sleeping with a guy...sorry to break it to you ladies but you are the ones with the power and thus the responsibility - and if they do then there are plenty of families waiting to adopt.

What if we dont want to pay for women's birth control or welfare rats? We should punish the men who leave their families more, instead of society for the actions of 2 stupid people.

And angry feminists, please dont spout off like always. Both parties are responsible, but we only seem to have to pay the mother or for women's birth control, so that is where the problem lies.

@DietrichtheKaiser

Rape and date rape do happen, through no "choice" of the victim. Young teens also make bad decisions sometimes, and hopefully learn from them. Why let an innocent baby be conceived and become another victim of the date rape or "bad decision"? Are you considering a resulting pregnancy a fitting "punishment" for the girl?

Amen.

The article says nothing about who is to pay for it; just that it should be available! They are two different issues, people.

Abstinence doesn't work? Bull@!$%#

No, using it as a primary means of birth control DOESN'T WORK. Want proof? Look at the teenage birth rates in the South where they promote abstinence widely, and compare them to the North, where they widely educate and use BC.

Who has more kids at younger ages? Now, do you want to ask your question again, or have you identified your error? Kids aren't responsible, even from 'good' families, even from the South.

Feigning shock and disappointment when they get pregnant is so much less effective than providing them with birth control and admitting they are human and will make mistakes.

RB-376263

Post #1.4, you're not paying for this, its not a tax payer issue, its an availability issue, and Obama care is not a "tax" its allowed under the constitutional provisions of the taxing authority, The ignorance of people thinking that the Affordable Health Care act is raising taxes just astounds me, they are know nothings who shoot their mouths off without understanding one damn thing about economics, constitutional law, or he way our government is suppose to work.

So glad my children are grown. If some idiot doctor had given my daughter a prescription for this, there would have been h*ll to pay. It is not up to society to determine what is best for a child. It is up to the parent.

RB: You're paying for birth control for people you're not sleeping with for the same reason I'm paying for Viagra.

tom: Dextromethorphan is a semisynthetic narcotic found in many cough medicines.

Mr Accountability---Abstinence does work of course. If you don't have sexual intercourse, you are not going to get pregnant. What does NOT work is the teaching of abstinence. As proof let's consult a minor expert...say...Bristol Palin. How did her abstinence only sex ed. work out for her? Listen, you should intuitively know that telling a teenager not to have sex or think about sex is like telling a teenager not to get acne. Ain't gonna happen! Sex education in our schools should be comprehensive, with human sexuality, all forms of birth control including abstenence, pills, condoms etc. and male and female responsibilities in regards to the sex act covered. You can teach a student the fact that if you don't have sex you won't get pregnant but you cannot teach a student NOT to have sex.

Hey RB,

Why do I have to pay DMV registration to pay for roads that I don't even drive on?

Your argument is as stupid as mine.

You are not being 'forced' to pay taxes.

You could always (and I recommend that you do) move to another country. You would not need to pay federal and state taxes that partially go to keeping people healthy and safe.

Why let an innocent baby be conceived and become another victim of the date rape or "bad decision"? Are you considering a resulting pregnancy a fitting "punishment" for the girl?

Why kill an innocent baby because its parents are not responsible or are bad people? Is the resulting baby being punished for the crimes of its parents?

Are we trying to cater to loose women?

No. We're trying to protect young girls from poor decisions as a result of a. peer pressure b. shoddy parenting, which is not the child's fault c. ridiculous, unfounded, unsuccessful abstinence-only education that backwards, repressed, delusional lawmakers seem to think still works despite being proven time and again to only raise teen pregnancy rates

The same people who flip out about people hunting bambie, an animal, have no problem stopping the heartbeat inside them of their unborn child...absolutely disgusting.

Many abortions occur before the fetus has a heartbeat, and definitely before it's viable. What's disgusting to me is that your type claims to be pro-life, but in fact does not give a @!$%# what happens to the fetus after it's born unwanted to a poor, single mother. ANYWAY, this isn't about abortions--it's about getting Plan B and preventing pregnancy before it begins. Try reading the article.

Whatever happened to sex education? No, condoms and morning after pills negate the need for that. Whatever happened to parents teaching their children to be responsible human beings instead of sex addicts. No, the morning after pills and condoms negate the need for that. The problem in society is that they now teach "Have sex as much as you want, as long as its safe sex." There is no such thing as safe sex, unless that sex occurs in a monogamous committed relationship (* cough * marriage *cough*).

JESUS H. CHRIST, how many @!$%#ing times do we have to tell you that ABSTINENCE ONLY EDUCATION DOES. NOT. WORK. You're a fool if you think that schools teach safe sex these days--they teach exactly what you're saying (no sex 'til marriage) and guess what? It's been proven to be not just unsuccessful, but COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.

Our first priority should be preventing the cause of all these pregnancies (irresponsible rampant teenage sex), not treating the symptoms.

That's what the article is about--birth control and Plan B--preventing pregnancy. If you want to try and tell people to stop having sex, especially hormone-addled teens whose brains have not fully developed the capacity to make the best decisions about their future, that's nice and warm and fuzzy, but it just doesn't work, sorry Grandpa.

I am sick of paying for STUPID

Great, so am I. So let's pay for birth control so we don't have to pay for welfare, food stamps, medicaid, etc that the majority of unwanted children and single mothers will be on for the rest of their lives, eh?

Of course. Those non-judgmental(?) enablers would strive to eliminate all consequences of a libertine lifestyle, and the only component they're now lacking is a preventative/cure for all STD's. The decay of society continues unabated.

Libertine lifestyle? What a joke. We're talking about protecting teenage girls, not prostitutes. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD: telling people to not have sex is about as successful as prohibition was to get people to stop drinking. You can't regulate sexuality, GIVE UP.

Why do I have to pay DMV registration to pay for roads that I don't even drive on?

You don't! Having a driver's license, buying a car and paying DMV registration fees is a choice YOU made. The government is not forcing you to have a driver's license and it's not forcing you to buy a car.

@MrBurns - I understand where you're coming from, but this is not as much about the women, and more about the children. What is your plan to help children born into poverty if their mothers could not afford birth control and still had sex (either consensually or rape)?

@CoRavensFan...

Read the article again...this has nothing to do with "killing an innocent baby". The birth control being discussed PREVENTS A PREGNANCY from occurring, when two people have had sex and the girl is AT RISK of becoming pregnant. The birth control being discussed PREVENTS A PREGNANCY from occurring, when sex has occured and the girl is AT RISK of becoming pregnant.

Kendall in Long Beach - The article says nothing about who is to pay for it; just that it should be available! They are two different issues, people.

That's a stupid argument. If you're going to insist it be made available, you're going to have to consider, sooner or later, who is paying for it, and we all already KNOW who that will be...WE the tax payers.

Here are a few basic facts for all of you:

1. We pay taxes and they are spent. I do not like that my taxes are spent on war and yet they are. I get over it and if you don't like that your taxes are spent on women with children or women on welfare either because the men who impregnated them left or died or whatever, you should get over it.

2. People, almost all people enjoy having sex. Why? Because it's enjoyable. Think about it, it's quite pleasurable.

3. If males were the ones who became pregnant instead of females, none of this would ever be an issue. Birth control would be free, abortion would be legal (yes, even late term), no male would ever be criticized for making a decision (it would not be termed a choice), and there would be no cost involved.

4. Males are equally culpable in all parts of the pregnancy equation. This includes the welfare equation!

Let em have all the baby poison they want IMO. There are more than enough people suckling the government teat already.

BigJeff (post #1.39),

I wonder, do you not believe in roads?

Do you believe roads are immoral?

Thats right, it's not the same thing.

And like how folks like you, when someone doesn't agree with you, usually resorts to telling that someone to take a hike. Shows how tolerant your type really is. Tolerant that is, as long as the person you are tolerating agrees with you. Think about it.

The puritans are out in force today.

As long as people believe that life begins at conception this argument and the harm it causes will continue. Life on earth began billions of years ago, nothing has died between you and the ooze that started it long before our planet had a blue sky. This holier than thou attitude is as much responsible for a conception becoming pregnancy as the raging hormones in your teen-aged children or grand-children. Do them a favor and allow them to fix unanticipated sexual encounters.

I don't know if I can make some comments about this or not - as usual the whole thing bogs down into a red state/blue state abortion debate. As a pro-life Mother of 2 girls, I think I'd be offended if my doctor wrote a "just in case" scrip for my 16-year-old, even as I can understand why a doctor would want to. Also, as a pro-life Mother of 2 girls, I'd much rather see them on some form of BC than pregnant and then needing to figure out what to do next. Birth control is always preferable to abortion. Nowhere does the article say that a "just in case" scrip will replace sex ed, which is a whole different subject. Really wish people could just comment on the article instead of dragging in all this extra stuff! Who says taxpayer dollars are paying for a scrip that may or may not be filled, anyway? But my answer to that is the same, birth control is ALWAYS preferable to abortion or welfare/dropout status for mother & child.

But back to my original thought - I kind of have a problem with this for myself at least; does anyone else out there think this might be going a little too far???

Bellagio,

I can see that you have no idea what a fact is. You assume that abortion wouldnt be an issue if it was men doing it. You base that on what exactly? Your feminist hatred of men. Lol, feminists have become one of the biggest jokes in our country because of people like you. Congrats.

Being a good parent is very difficult.

Instead of teaching good morals to minor girls we are telling them before they spread their legs for guys who don't care for them to please pop the pill.

How about teaching the minor girls to respect themselves first and don't let guys use them.

We are talking minors here people. We are going so backwards in this country.

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Most girls did NOT have sex prior to high school graduation. The ones that did usually had 1 boyfriend throughout high school and some did get pregnant while in high school. I only knew 1 girl that gave her baby away, but later was reunited. I knew girls as young a 14 that had a child in high school. Several upon graduation were pregnant. All got married and most stayed married. I knew 1 gal that had an abortion in high school which everybody found out about. Gorgeous girl that became very mixed up as the years went on. She was from a successful family, but that abortion and subsequent break-up with her to be husband pushed her over the edge.

The black woman on The View, has admitted she did not use birth control and thus had several abortions before realizing the impact of those decisions had on her life. Blacks have a 4x rate compared to whites.

IMO, more access to birth control has thus allowed a lot more 1 night stands to happen. There is considerably more casual sex today than when I grew up. Is that better? I don't think so and if protection isn't used sexual diseases are passed around. So it isn't just birth control that is needed.

I would argue that multiple partners for a woman is not healthy. They might not realize that early on but it takes a toll IMO. I think boys are wired differently and having had sex with many girls doesn't leave any impression that I can see. So if we are concerned for women, our policies are hurting them. I do not see more self confidence, I am seeing a lot less.

Yeah sure, lets just empower all of them to be more promiscuous than they would normally. A women reasons things differently than men. Mostly women say Why not when men say WHY. 2 different operating systems. Our country's morals are going into the toilet, we are heading for the abyss and all liberals can say is WHY NOT.

krounded

The decay progress of society continues unabated.

There. I fixed it.

Black is white and white is black huh krounded?

We will pay for that folly, dearly. It will just take a little while. The reversal of moral codes from 30-40 years ago have already manifested themselves in the persistent and irreconcilable problems we see today.

There's more and worse to come.

Thanks 'progressives'

Can't help but laugh at all this ridiculous comments coming from people that should not even be allowed to procreate themselves. My taxes, my taxes. Give me a break. We are paying for wars that we are not even supposed to be in. We are paying for non citizens in our country while our own citizens are going homeless. We are paying for thousands of brand new tanks sitting in the California desert that the military has no need for, but keep getting more of them. How about welfare, and prison is a lot more expensive than the morning after pill. By the way, this garbage about the teens should keep their pants zipped, it worked so well with Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol Palin, now think about that... The people that do this b.s. complaining should move to some Islamic country were they can stone their daughters to death for embarrassing the family, because you all belong there and rocks are free...

Proud - My post isn't an argument. It is an observation that the method of payment for "Plan B" is not at issue here. Since the article is about the AVAILABILITY of that option to a certain population "just in case." It is NOT about if it's legal or not. Therefore, the payment issue remains the SAME whether it's available with a "just-in-case" prescription or only available with a prescription after a doctor visit after the fact.

As much as you may want to, you cannot control other people's sex lives. I am for anything that will lower the number of abortions, and that seems to be increased availability and decreased cost of birth control methods (not just the pill, but other methods as well), and increased education. You can have comprehensive sex education and still stress abstinence as the best option. Think about the couple who waits until marriage, but can't afford to have kids right away. This would benefit people like that as well. I would agree that since birth control is a medication like any other, there should be parental involvement for those under 18.

I can think of at least three different types of people (I'm sure there are other ways to look at it), and abstinence only education only benefits one group. We have a-those who will wait for marriage no matter what outside influences there are, b-those who decide to/want to wait but are able to be persuaded into it (they think they're in love, peer pressure, they meet a smooth talker, start to think there aren't any risks since none of their sexually-active friends have gotten pregnant/caught STD's and change their mind, etc), and c-those who will have sex no matter what type of sex education they receive. Only group a is helped by abstinence only education.

Wow. Such reasonable people. Let's call girls all kinds of names and just tell them to keep their legs together. That will really solve the problem of teen pregnancy. Let's see now...as some educated people here pointed out...nope, that doesn't work. Not unless you make sure NO ONE is raped, coerced in anyway, or peer pressured into any sexual act. We also would have to make sure that each girl AND boy grow up learning early how to use birth control, having parents who will be open to talking about sex in a factual and reasonable way without calling names and telling them to just "keep their legs together" and not be sl*ts. Oh, and then we would also have to make sure that ALL girls who did use birth control but it malfunctioned, those who weren't really sure about the basic facts of sex and reproduction (no, I know they won't be all taught) had access to emergency contraception, that NO girls were being molested or abused by anyone EVER, and that boys and their parents were ALL held financially responsible and it was enforced if any girl got pregnant.

So, since I don't see all of that happening, there is a need for availability. Yes, I would want to know if my daughters were in this situation because I would want to be supportive and help them through whatever was going on, but I do see that there is a case to be made for some girls needing protection from their families at this time as well. I do see that one dose of a bc pill that prevents conception is a great deal better in the long run than a child she can't carry safely, has no support for, can't feed or clothe, and one that keep her and the child in poverty. I am not saying this always happens, but it does often enough to be a trend that doesn't have to be. We aren't talking about having abortions here, but about preventing the need to consider one. Interesting how so many complain about paying for someone on welfare and her kids for years, but don't get that this would be the time to alter the girl's (and boy's) life course to help her reach her goals and reinforce that babies deserve a loving home with necessities that she can't provide until she is educated and old enough to take good care of the baby.

I live in the south and see girls with one or more kids hanging on them everywhere I go. I know a girl who got pregnant at 14, had a boy at 15 (very religious family and knew nothing about saying no, older men, or birth control), and moved away from our neighborhood. I saw her a few months ago and she is maybe 17 now. She had a baby in her arms and was dragging her first child with her, and this is common. She never finished high school, never learned her worth as a human and a young woman, never learned a trade, and will most likely be on welfare her whole life because she came from a family who refused to teach her, protect her, and were on welfare themselves with little way to make enough to get off of it. I know a girl whose father got her pregnant at 10. She lost the baby, but what if she hadn't? He most likely would have killed her, knowing him. Life isn't as simple as some people seem to think it is. I know of two teens who were date raped and one got pregnant. She now has nothing to her name except a child she wasn't ready for, didn't want to have or raise, got teased by the rapist who said it was consensual, and her family refused to let her do anything but raise that child. She dropped out of school and is pretty much homeless.

I've seen too many stories like this to insist that all girls just "keep their legs together" or think that if you tell people not to have sex they won't. Things happen...violence, innocence betrayed, confused, ignorance, malfunctions, and other situations. Standing back and being condescending and demeaning, or talking about things you never experienced as if you are the experts isn't helpful at all.

"Cause you're an idiot! Do you want to pay for a child on welfare, or for birth control!?!?!?!"

I would like to pay for neither though taxes! Simple, that is what Charity is for. Plus when there is no safe guard people actually take more responsibility for their actions.

On a side note my 14 year daughter needs parental consent to have her ear pierced but not for the morning after pill?

The Pill is cheaper than raising the child. So if your worried about your tax dollars, think before you speak.

@Bellagio...

Your opinion is very short sighted, I believe. Unplanned pregnancies do occur, and assisting with birth control is a way to help prevent infants being born into poverty...and in need of public assistance.

What I can agree with you on, is that I believe taxpayers should not be responsible for supporting additional children born to a woman who is already on welfare/ADC assistance and willingly CHOOSES to have more children that she cannot support. Birth control such as is being discussed can help to prevent this additional drain on families and taxdollars. I believe people can find themselves in hard times through no fault of their own...and yes, even through mistakes. Hopefully you can find compassion in your heart to realize that. Thus, if a woman/couple find themselves in a position in which they need to receive assistance in order to provide basic needs for their child(ren), then they should also be required to receive a birth control injection (usually given about every three months, I think), to prevent any more pregnancies and additional children until they are back on their feet and can support their family independently. Obviously, we cannot force birth control on anyone, but if a woman refuses to limit her family to the number of children she has when applying for aide (through birth control), then aide should not be an option. I also believe we should be finding ways to encourage more teens/women in poverty and in need of public assistance, to give their newborns up for adoption, while assisting them to finish educations and escape poverty before they take on parenthood. To me, that is common sense.

Oh my so much stupidity, so little rational thought. Some of you have apparently not noticed that allowing women and children to starve to death in the street is usually not considered the action of an enlightened society and is generally frowned upon. Perhaps just moving to another country is not quite good enough for you neanderthals (apologies to real neanderthals) perhaps you would prefer to live in another epoch, the dark ages should fit you idiots perfectly.

Bellagio - wow, you're whole rant is just ridiculous! This article isn't about welfare moms getting pregnant. This article is about allowing the Plan B to either be sold over the counter or by an advanced prescription. I think this is a great idea. Yes, teenagers should be taught personal responsibility, but sometimes they (and many adults I know) get caught up in the moment and make poor decisions. It really doesn't matter the age, race or socioeconomic status, sometimes unwanted pregancies happen. If this could prevent unwanted pregnancies, then its a great idea and better for the would be parent and an unwanted child.

trailergure - you know what is cheaper than abortion or the Pill?

Serialization at birth! How about only the truly enlightened are allowed to have children?

Mark - "Some of you have apparently not noticed that allowing women and children to starve to death in the street is usually not considered the action of an enlightened society and is generally frowned upon"

and free birth control or just in case birth control solves this issue?

And on what street do we have non mentally challenged women and children starving to death on?

All you RWNJs make my head spin. First you don't want any women to have an abortion. Then after forcing a unwanted birth, you don't want to pay for an un-insured mother to give birth. Your against Obamacare that forces people to take personal responsibility by having their own insurance. Now your against OTC birth control and morning after pill that would greatly reduce abortion. Lets look at the choices, Allow OTC birth control and morning after pill or pay for un-insured mothers health and birthing of an unwanted. The cost of uninsured is about $1,500 per year per person, 45.5 million un-insured people in this country. That adds up to over $68 Billion a year our tax dollars. So why don't you support a law that forces un-insured to get health insurence and take personal responsibilty?

Want more jobs here in America, tell your Republican Senator/Representative to quit blocking the Repeal of the tax breaks given to business sending jobs overseas.

If this is about taxes, which i don't think the original article was, it's simple really.

All you folks out there who are "choice" are free to start your own private organization, collect you own funds and pass out birth control until you are blue in the face. My tax dollars don't need to be subsidizing something i don't beleive in. You should. Out of your own private funds since you feel so strongly for reproductive rights.

Pony up people and follow your convictions. I do on any numerous things including gun rights. I'd love to hear some of you bitch if your tax dollars paid for any of that.

Abstinence does work... I was born and raised by parents who had sex for the first time after they were married. My husband is the first man I ever man sex with, and I intend for him to be the ONLY man I ever have sex with. As far as I know, none of my unmarried sublings have had sex and do not intend to do so until they are married.

It all comes down to PARENTING and RESPONSIBILITY of the individual. I am a responsible person who chose to live responsibly, and as for people who say there is no way to keep a teenager from having sex... well, either you didn't do your job as a parent, or you did the best you could but your child chose poorly and therefore should live with the consequences. I don't believe that if morning after bc pills are readily encouraged to young girls, it's going to be handled in the right way.

AG: It has potential for abuse but dextrome. is NOT, I repeat, is NOT a narcotic......but when abused, is dangerous.

I fully support it being controlled as a 'behind the counter must be 18 to purchase' as it is in CA and a few other states.

Tom - Plymouth-3672298

trailergure - you know what is cheaper than abortion or the Pill?

Serialization at birth! How about only the truly enlightened are allowed to have children?

Tom if ever there was a good reason for what you suggest it's YOU. Your mothers mistake is our burden.

The hostility of "progressives" toward our native posterity continues unabated, and the dearth of native born children, and the need for the "importation" of labor, and the supplanting of the nation's population by the foreign-born, and the increasingly rapid extinction of our culture as the "modern" female continues to be bombarded with the message that having children is to be avoided by everyone in any case. All this talk about "unwanted" children is a smoke screen. What is unwanted is any children of a Christian population by "progressives" who are working feverishly toward the genocide of Western culture, its values, and its people.

Likely because they are themselves sterile by choice, they, knowing what they decree best for everyone else, have decreed that those who don't approve of their perversion of human society and its behavior must be taught to share their unnatural aversion to a healthy and thriving posterity--that is, all future innately born and raised children.

Of course, it must be carefully kept hidden that hostility to our posterity is hostility to one of the founding principles of the U.S. Constitution, enshrined in its preamble. But then, the "re-distributors" have long been hostile to the notion of limited government as a blessing to bequeath on "ourselves and our posterity," just as they have long been fond of twisting whatever they find in that document to be conducive to their own contrary ends, and studiously ignoring whatever they find in there that is inconvenient to those ends.

And this whole Constitutional argument that I present ignores completely, and deliberately, in focusing on the sociological, the issue of what is morally right and ethically good for one's own self and kith and kin in any case, quite apart from any national issue, simply to make it unequivocally clear that it matters not from which direction one approaches our ongoing self-extermination, the difference between the right path and the wrong path--and identifying which actions stand on which side of that question--is quite clear.

Birth control of any kind is just another form of national suicide. No, I don't advocate "preventing" you from doing anything, so you can drop that judgmental irrelevancy where you found it. I'm simply trying to educate you to the truth.

Spare me the fictitious, irrational, and unnecessary hysteria about the hordes of unwanted native and indigenous people (people such as myself and, likely, yourselves) crowding our shores. Our clear problem is of exactly the opposite nature. But then, this juxtaposition of the phobic phony mantra with the actual reality is the work of an intellectually deliberate, diabolically planned, and craftily purposeful hostile agenda that has been carefully pushed on us and thoroughly taught to us by a determined adversary for over a century, having already succeeded beyond its point of no return, enthusiastically aided and abetted by millions of dupes such as likely each of yourselves, most of you whom are still completely and blissfully blind to the fact that the gaping barrel of the cannon you so enthusiastically help to aim is pointed squarely at your own heads.

All that is left to be added to that story at this point is the funereal lamentation.

You think this too pessimistic? Try and show me how this changes. If you think you can.

Else see reality, folks.

Joethelib, more tolerance from the people that preach tolerance.

And I was thinking the enlightened were the libs, and if you don't think sterilzing all non-libs at births isn't cheaper than the pill or morning after pill, you are crazy. I mean that is the libs reason for this right? its cheaper?

All actions have consequences.
- Why use a condom, the girl can just take a pill.
- Suprise a super STD which no antibiotic can kill.

It's been a long while since I met a grown-up 40 year old. Maybe we all need to relearn that when you plant corn, you get corn.

Leezr, I'm glad that your sheltered little world is so black and white and simple. Unfortunately, you are so out of touch with reality and the real world, it's laughable. The majority of teenage girls, particularly those raised in poverty, are lucky to have any kind of sex education at all, let alone the self-esteem to not be pressured into sex before they're ready. You have no clue what it's like out there, and unfortunately many of policy makers don't either, which explains why the cycle of poverty continues.

Abstinence-only sex education is still the norm these days. It was when I was in high school 8 years ago, and my friends who are teachers today aren't even allowed to tell their students what a condom is. It's sad, it's pathetic, it's counter productive, and all of you bitching about your tax dollars need to pull your heads out and realize that telling people to keep it in their pants is just making the situation worse.

Plus Joe, if we sterilize all non libs, we would do away with those Greedy bastards that abuse mother earth and destroy her by taking oil, natural gas and coal.

We then could stop global warming and big business greed.

What could possibly be cheaper than that?

Girls already have "just in case birth control" - it is called "keep your pants buttoned and your knees together".

It has been proven that this type of birth control is 100% effective and there is not ONE case in history where if this type of birth control was used that a girl got pregnant.

Seems like THIS should be the "just in case birth control" that we should be prescribing for our children.

What we really need is an injection that is mandatory to be given at birth that makes everyone sterile, with an antidote in the form of a pill that requires a prescription, is only given to people over 21 after passing a parental fitness test, and costs $1000 that is NOT covered by insurance or medicaid, or given to jailed prisoners.

To TomPlymouth:

Have charity pay for your next war, tax break for oil companies, bridge to nowhere, <fill in the blank>, eh? I like my tax dollars going to welfare, health and human services, and grants to dubious art and science projects. Much more than to United Armaments. Congress may see it my way some day, glad they don't see it yours.

To the Moralizers:

Don't you have an honor-killing scheduled for later today? Run along now.

Prededed -

So in the first paragraph you tell us the reason for the problem. "The majority of teenage girls, particularly those raised in poverty, are lucky to have any kind of sex education at all, let alone the self-esteem to not be pressured into sex before they're ready."

and they you go on to say that teaching sex education is also the problem. "tax dollars need to pull your heads out and realize that just telling people to keep it in their pants is just making the situation worse."

So which is it?

I would rather have my tax dollar used for teaching the kids how to prevent it and then let them be on their own to implement it and if some mistake happens (which I know I had/have a daughter prior to marriage) people take responsibility for their mistake, be it abortion, adoption or having the child.

But spending borrowed money after the issue has happened is going to solve the problem is it?

Jon: Excellent point. Liberals ALWAYS seem to want to help other people - but only with other people's money.

If you liberals want to support irresponsible behavior that is fine but I don't want to pay for it. If you want to hand out birth control have at it. Start a non-profit organization. Have telethons and sell t-shirts on eBay. Start "donation" drives and stand at intersections holding a giant looking condom that people can drop quarters and dollar bills in. Then with the money donated buy cases of condoms and hand them out.

But do it with your OWN money. And if there are SO many that "think like you do" and support irresponsible behavior you should have PLENTY of donations and don't need the money from the few of us "right-wing bible thumping gun-toting nutjobs". I would think you wouldn't WANT money from us "right-wingers" anyway.

So start your own organization, get donations coming in, sell t-shirts, and give out as many condoms as you want. Me? I would rather donate money to organizations that support responsible moral behavior and the NRA. You don't want YOUR money going to gun rights do you? Then fine, I don't WANT your money. But on the same token don't ask ME to pay for your irresponsible and immoral behavior.

Bellagio,

My apologies. I meant Margo, not you. You are clear headed, Margo is a raving feminist. Sorry about that.

Bellagio - yeah that's right. Stupid women. Maybe we could get a law passed that all men are allowed to beat women when they do something like have unprotected sex? You know one of those things that a man would never do. Please listen to yourself and think before you type.

Bottomline, I hate the constant handouts and entitlement mentality that we see nowadays as much as the next guy and I'm just as tired of the shrugging of personal responsibility. I also agree that we need major welfare reforms, but fact is we need to take our heads out of the sand, stop letting religious ideals influence policy making (clear violation of the Constitution all you patriots) and face reality. I gave Bellagio crap but trying to look thru his BS, and poorly written statement, I think what he is trying to say is that welfare needs to be reigned in and those receiving it need to understand their are serious strings attached, not just here's some $$ have fun (yes I know its not like that but there's a lot of room for improvement). Something like stating you only will receive funds for two kids and that is the limit might be a start for something like that. But the real issue here is prevention and trying to stop a problem. Same problem that we face in the rest of the HC arena, more people wait until there is a problem before acting thus costing more but do to the outrageous costs to start with.

Anyone on here pulling the BS excuse about paying for other people is a idiot, plain and simple. We already pay for it and many times over. I rather pay for BC then for a mother and her child(ren) for the next 18+ yrs. Scream all you want but the numbers are plain to see. I thank those that have pointed that fact out many times now. I ask that you keep doing that, it may feel like you are talking to a brick wall but as some point you push enough the wall will cave. I will also point out that they are close to effective male birth control pill so that should level the playing field some and give men another temp BC option besides a condom though I would support paying for those because again, much cheaper.

Same for the abstinence only thought process. If you believe that is effective then I have a bridge to sell you. And the argument is not that it doesn't work, obviously it would because you aren't having sex and kids need to understand this, but the that is the only way only choice policy is a total failure and is as effective as trying to collect water using a sieve. Just saying don't do it doesn't work people and ignores the reality of the situation.

Then to the more sex argument and decline of society morals ect. First off where does profiting off ones medical problems and disabilities lie? Hey I understand some compensation for services rendered is just but how much are we talking and how much above and beyond what the services cost to deliver? Think about that then get back to me on your moral argument. That doesn't even touch on some of the other moral issues. But back to the first point yes more people might be inclined to have sex but how much worse would it really be than now? You don't want your kids to have sex then be a parent. It shouldn't matter what government programs are out there, as long as you are being a parent then you should have a lot less to worry about, regardless if your child has easier access to BC.

And yes I do have certain reservations about abortions but again this is about prevention not abortion and it is time we start realizing that and the benefits that prevention like this can truly offer.

We need preventative programs like this coupled with effective sex and health education, and renforcement from parents/guardians which may need to include a program or way to get meaningful and factual information to parents/guardians since more than even chance they don't have needed answers or information to help them talk to their kids, but they can still at least provide guidance and lesson learned from their experiences..

It is time

Arsenic, you lie!

You don't like YOUR tax dollars going to welfare, health and human services, and grants to dubious art and science projects.

You like that OTHERS tax dollars are going to those things, because if it was just your tax dollars you would be pissed on how much the Government pissed away your money prior to getting to those institutions.

Hey try being honest with yourself and then it will become easier to be honest with others.

So, i guess that accidental poisoning I got from birth control would now in todays argument be a lawsuit against many groups, including the pharmacy and this AAP group promoting it....go right ahead, Ill sue the crap out of you when my daughter gets poisoned too and no one told me they gave her a perscription...I see money lots of money. I will own you AAP!

My insurance already covers this, and quite frankly I am glad. (I know the article isn't about who pays) My daughter is unable to take BC pills. She has a hormone imbalance that causes irregular cycles (its been a year since her last).

She has had the same boyfriend since she was 16, and I am not stupid. I know they started to get a lot more serious a few months ago.

Yes we have had the talk, yes I have told her I would like her to wait, yes we have discussed every form of BC available at this time. Teens sometimes forget that pregnancy is not the only consequence of being sexually active. I made her look up some of those other consequences online. Fortunately she has a great pediatrician who reinforced everything I talked to her about and she has a great relationship with her. But it still gives me peace of mind to know that if somethign does happen and she isn't prepared, there is something available that she can take.

LEEZr

Abstinence does work...

In case you haven't noticed your family is the exception to the rule. Do you really think every young man will not try or even force themselves on a young woman. I think it admirable for you and yours but all women should have the option left up to them. Its not your choice or mine to tell anyone how or what to do with their bodies.

Wish all you want for something else but REALITY is (1) many girls are having periods before age 10 now and at that age are not able to fully understand sex or protect themselves from aggressive boys, (2) teens are going to have sex whether we like it or not (hopefully education and parental influence at least postpones it), (3) you can wish all you want for the govt to not support teen parents, but reality is they will likely be on welfare for much of their lives, (4) this birth control is not an abortion and could reduce the number of abortions, (5) when most people did wait until marriage to have sex, they were also frequently getting married at age 15 to 18 (plus girls developed later, thus reducing time that temptation had to be resisted), (6) boys should have EQUAL responsibility in all of this to keep THEIR pants zipped (and I say this as a PATERNAL grandma raising grandkids and paying for everything myself), (7) no matter how well we raise our kids, they don't always listen and often think they are invincible, (8) as others have said, if men had to have babies, the right to birth control would have been settled long ago

If I had a daughter old enough to get pregnant (again that can happen at age 9 or 10 these days) I would hope she could understand sex enough to manage to avoid it and would not have aggressive boys after her EVER. BUT if for some reason, including rape, she needed Plan B, I would want her to be able to have it. Hopefully it would be me that she confides in immediately and we could get Plan B together. But if that didn't happen it would be wrong to force her to have a baby because she was scared or didn't trust me. Age 10 or 17, I would want it availble for her in a crisis. The who, what, where and why could be addressed afterward.

I am in total agreement with these Doctors. I'm also the father of 4 daughters, and grandfather of 6 Grand daughters. Thankfully, unwanted pregnancies never happened with my daughters. Don't yet know about my Grand daughters. Allowing them access to such a preventative medication though would give both myself and their Grandmother much peace of mind. Never understood why some wish to prohibit such, yet think it is quite appropriate for a Child or young woman to care for an unwanted Child.

I do not disagree in principle with those saying that teens should not be having sex and that those who are having sex should accept responsibility for buying their own contraception.

my question is, how is that working out for you?

How many teenagers get pregnant each year and either have abortions or go on welfare (either of which they will be condemned for by conservatives)

Until you have a plan-I mean actual proven steps to reverse teens from having sex-not a theory about parents teaching them things and society having a collective lobotomy. I mean a yet to be thought of concrete plan that will ensure that teens no longer have sex...we as a society have 2 choices...

Pay for contraception

Pay for welfare

I choose A. It is cheaper, reduces babies being born to kids who are not emotionally able to parent them, and is by far the more practical answer.

Why kill an innocent baby because its parents are not responsible or are bad people? Is the resulting baby being punished for the crimes of its parents?

how can you guarantee that the child's life wont be horrible?? Eliminating the "innocent" keeps them that way....I wouldn't do it, but some will and its ok...why, because its not me.

Granny - "BUT if for some reason, including rape, she needed Plan B, I would want her to be able to have it"

This isn't about if a girl can get it, about is about prescribing it to them them "Just in Case" you know like a breath mint you have in your purse or a Condom a boy or girl carries around.

I have a 14 year old girl and I don't want her to have a morning after pill in her purse. But my wife and I have had the discussion that is something happens forced or unforced she can talk to us and we would go with her to the doctor. Hey if you are a big enough girl to have sex you are a big enough girl to talk about.

Mac Forrester---Good for you Mac, but you chose how to raise your family, how about letting other parents raise theirs? Every time I see a story like this it reminds me of one thing, a liberal talking about how they want rights like stay out of my bedroom and then they turn around and try to make decisions about how others run their lives and home. Yup nothing like getting into other peoples bedroom for the sake of helping. Hahahaha, somehow that is OK.

UCHusky - "Pay for contraception, Pay for welfare, I choose A. It is cheaper, reduces babies being born to kids who are not emotionally able to parent them, and is by far the more practical answer.

I choose "C" - pay for education or in a perfect world have parents do the educating, and let people decide for themselves if they are mature enough to have kids and be able to support them, if not with the help of charities.

Why does everybody choose Government as a why to solve problems?

But on the same token don't ask ME to pay for your irresponsible and immoral behavior.

You are already paying for it-in the form of welfare, food stamps....

Doesn't it make sense to prevent unwanted pregnancies than to have them happen with the need to financially support the mother? (or let the child starve.)

In a perfect world, no teenagers would have sex and adults who have sex would be able to afford reliable contraception and always use it.

In a perfect world, no one would commit crimes, so we would not need police with guns. No country would invade another, so we would have no need for a military. We have these things because we do live in an imperfect world, and practicality wins over a vision of utopia.

I choose "C" - pay for education or in a perfect world have parents do the educating, and let people decide for themselves if they are mature enough to have kids and be able to support them, if not with the help of charities.

Isn't this what we have been doing? Do you consider it a success?

And to further Tom's point liberals like to "muddy the waters". Although I am against abortion it HAS been upheld by the Supreme Court so I don't have a say in that. I don't support abortion except in rare cases but how you decide to raise your children is fine with me. I don't agree but it is your choice. The key word there is "choice".

If you choose to allow your child to have birth control that is up to you - but YOU pay for it. I don't want to pay for it. If your child is not smart enough to understand the dangers and consequences of premarital sex and you feel you need additional protection for your child that is unable to take responsibility for themselves then you are welcome to do so - at your expense. But I don't want to pay for the actions of your child that is not smart enough to take care of themselves. So if you want birth control then have at it. Take your child to the doctor and get birth control. But that is YOUR choice.

The argument is not ACCESS to birth control. Your access to birth control is fine by my AND supported by me. The argument is WHO pays for it. If you feel it is important for your child then YOU pay for it. My children were taught the dangers of premarital sex, taking responsibility for their actions, and treating their bodies with dignity and respect. We did not need to buy birth control.

But if you are unable to trust your child then YOU pay for it - not me.

Part of liberalism seems to be bombarding everyone with the message that morals are obsolete and every young woman is going to be a slut. There are millions of young women who still make the conscious choice to wait until they are married for sex. Once upon a time, they were the "normal" ones.

since this medication stops ovulation there is no fertilized egg thusly no potential baby-----this is in no way an abortion. fact---there is no potential baby. whether this is used for rape or just to prevent unwanted pregnancies it is an option that should be available to all females. i would gladly pay thru taxes or donations to planned parenthood for women of all ages (including minors) to have this option available. a teenager who does want a baby should never be forced by parents to give birth. right to life supporters should welcome this pill since it is not '' killing a baby''-------but then that really isn't their agenda now is it? i think judgement and punishment is what motivates the religious extremists. if ony they would realize that they are punishing babies ---who among us would want to be born unwanted?

uchusky99, that is not what we have been doing. We bail out people that have kids that can't afford them, we supply them the solution without trying to solve the problem. Is this going to stop kids from having unprotected sex? Nope

Is this going to stop kids from getting pregnant? Possibly

Is this going to stop kids from getting STD's? absolutely NOT!

Is this telling the kids that having unprotected sex prior to having the ability to support them is a BAD thing? Nope

There are a couple of issues i have with this. first off, A parent should have INPUT as to whatever is being prescribed to our children, bar none. You can't say "sometimes things happen with teens" and excuse it all away with a pill. Either they are reposnsible enough or not. So the argument seems to be that teens are responsible enough to have access to birth control but not repsonsible enough to raise a child if they can't get access to BC. Huh?? Teens should have access to Birth control if they are under 18, only with a parents permission. NO Exceptions. My second issue with this whole women's movement is the stilted way that laws are being set up to only assist them. Women have completely removed the man from any decision making when it comes to birth/birth control. If it takes two to tangle, How did women turn it into only their problem by giving the woman the only say whether a child is aborted. How does a man's rights get shuttled?. A woman carries the child, granted. Why does that give her the right to terminate a pregnancy if she doesn't want to keep it, but the man does. Why does the woman get to decide to keep the child, if the man doesn't?. Women have bartered for Free birth control, where is the access for men to have free birth control?. Society keeps talking about equality this and that but despite slow gains in some corners, women have basically labeled themselves as something "special" and somehow have elevated their issues to be more important than any issues relating to men. Equality means equal. Equal say in how a life is determined. It does take two to tango, it should also take two to make a decision on something as important as a life.....

Damn it!!!! There goes my condom business. So if she says the condom broke she gets the pill? Next she will say she has anxiety and needs a dose zanex. hahahahahahahahahah

Oh, also the ordeal is causing her to gain weight and could use some "speed" to control the weight problem.

Also, the emotional stress has caused her not to be able to work so just start the checks.

Who needs doctors anyway.

Granny - again this argument isn't about if it should be available to all females. Of course I don't think my 6 year old should have it, but I will believe you didn't really mean all.

This is really about who pays.

I will say the same thing I said to the other person. You lie about having your tax dollars pay for this.

You want OTHERS tax dollars to pay for this, because if you actually cared about these people you would be pissed that the Government wastes most of that money prior to it getting to these institutions.

Steve C-526943

Post #1.35 Steve, what reality are you in? Obamacare law is loaded with various new taxes. In addition, Chief Supreme Court Justice John Roberts upheld the law on the basis that the law came under the Fed. govt's power to tax. Does the IRS's role in it ring a bell!

So, your either ignorant about the tax part of Obamacare or your just plain lying.

uchusky: You WOULD have to me started on Food Stamps and Welfare. I shouldn't have to pay for either birth control OR Food Stamps/Welfare (unless the programs changed as noted below).

We shouldn't HAVE Food Stamps. If you are hungry we certainly want to make sure you have something to eat. So if you are hungry you can come by a location where government assistance will hand you a loaf of bread, bag of rice, gallon of milk, and a couple pounds of chicken. We will make sure you have basic food to eat - but I am tired of people eating better than me and doing it with Food Stamps.

Nothing is more frustrating then when I go grocery shopping and I am looking at sales, deciding whether it is more cost efficient to eat chicken or hamburger, and deciding whether I should get potatoes or rice for my meal and then I am in line behind someone with Food Stamps with a cart filled one foot above the top of the cart with steaks, hams, and cakes from the bakery. Don't get me wrong - I want to help those TRULY who need assistance with food but when they eat BETTER than me as I struggle with two jobs to make ends meet it is frustrating.

And we shouldn't have Welfare. If someone TRULY needs financial assistance then I am happy to give that to them: but not for free - nothing is free in this world. If you need money and don't have a job then if I was in government I would tell them to come to the county office and in exchange for assisting the county we will give them a check. Then give them a broom and have them sweep the sidewalks. Or give them a paintbrush and have them paint the wall over the graffiti. Or give them a spray bottle and a cloth and have them clean the entry doors.

Anybody who has respect for themselves would not take a handout. If I TRULY needed help and the county said they would help me in exchange for me doing some general work for them I would be grateful and appreciative.

But we have lost our moral compass. Now people expect handouts. They expect not just some food assistance but now want Food Stamps to buy all their desired items. They expect a Welfare check and have no desire to "earn" it. And now people want "free" birth control and then want me to pay for it. Sorry, anybody with moral values takes responsibility for their position in life. If you want someone to give you food then offer some way to earn it. You are short financially then offer to help the county in exchange for their assistance. And if you believe your child is not smart enough to understand the consequences of premarital sex then YOU are welcome to buy them additional protection.

I'm sorry, but where in this article does it say that we as Americans will need to pay for the morning after pill through our taxes? The entire article is based on selling it over the counter, or allowing a girl of any age to obtain it without a prescription.

It's amazing that it seems all the men are the ones complaining about paying for this, which as many people pointed out, is a lot less expensive when the mother then needs govt help for the next 18 years... that's what you're taxes will be paying for. Bunch of idiots.

I applaud them selling this otc. Isn't it basically the same as condoms? They both prevent pregnancy, not kill a fetus. My 14 yr old daughter knows better than to have sex at her age - I in no way condone it, but that doesn't mean she won't find a way and do it anyway. I'd rather be safe putting her on birth control than be sorry later while I raise a child I'm too old to raise to make sure she still gets her education.

Someone said above, or rather intimated, that parents these days are not teaching their kids abstinence but rather to go and have sex. I've never met a parent who has told their kid it's okay for them to have sex! (This was a man of course).

You can only do so much as a parent, and you choose your battles and do what you think best for your kid. Mine, I don't want pregnant so I'll do what I have to do to help her.

Sex is enjoyable and not a crime. Girls should be able to explore having fun and not be punished with a baby. Make those pills available for them.

I'm all in favor of women having ready access to birth control but there is one issue that seems to have been overlooked, and that is the risk of tampering with the hormones of young teenage girls without any medical supervision.

The medical establishment has repeatedly denied any link between breast cancer and The Pill, but I'm not convinced. We need to keep working toward safer birth control medication for women, and researching a form of oral birth control for men. Women have borne the majority of the burden of birth control for far too long, with negative health consequences.

I hope that the American Academy of Pediatrics is more concerned with the long-term health of American females than with the enormous profits to be made by promoting another pharmeceutical product.

I like. They should have been available in Hawiee about 60 years ago.

For everyone who doesn't advocate for this, let me give you a scenario;

There's a 14 year old girl going to a n expensive private school. Her parents are devout Irish Catholics who are very uptight about sex, to the point where she''s never been allowed to have a sex ed class. her older is 18, got pregnant without fist being married, and was kicked out of the house and disowned.

One day she misses the bus coming home from school. She knows her parents are going to be furious if one of them has to leave work and come pick her up, so when a (male) classmate's older brother drives up and offers to give her a rid home so she doesn't have to call her parents, she agrees and gets in the car with them.

The ride home becomes a lesson in sex-ed...the hard way.

She's too ashamed to tell her parents she accepted a ride from a classmate and was gang-raped, so she takes a shower when she gets home, tries to hide what happened. A coupe of weeks later she starts throwing up. She tells her parents it's the stomach flu, but she suspects she's pregnant, and a pregnancy test.bought from the local drugstore with carefully-hoarded lunch money confirms it.

She can't tell her parents--she knows how they will react. She and her sister have been brought up with the mantra that 'if it happens to you, it's your fault'. Her sister has already been kicked out of the house for getting pregnant without first being married. She's terrified she's going to end up the same way. A friend at school finally asks her whats wrong, and she tells her friend..and her friend tells her mother, and one day they sign her out of school and take her to a clinic to be seen by a doctor. the doctor confirms her pregnancy, but also informs her that hr body isn't developed enough to carry a child safely and an abortion is recommended. The girl is terrified of the abortion, but even more afraid of what would happen if she told her parents she's pregnant so she agrees to the procedure, and the friend's mother paid for the abortion.

Wouldn't a morning-after pill have been easier? If you would not advocate for a morning after ill for her, how would you have handled this? What would you do?

(Yes, I knew the girl this actually happened to at my high school.)

jake2247

Sex is enjoyable and not a crime. Girls should be able to explore having fun and not be punished with a baby. Make those pills available for them.

Girls of what age, Jake? Sex is so much more than a way to have fun. It is the means by which human beings reproduce. It is the closest form of physical bonding that exists between two people.

My objection is that young teenage girls are experiencing too much pressure to have sexual relationships before they are emotionally ready for them. It used to be that a girl's decision to say 'no' was respected, but now a boy just calls the next girl on his list until he finds one who's willing to give in. Girls have lost their power in the war between the sexes. They've surrendered their power. Many regret sleeping with some random guy who treats them about as well as the condom he tossed aside afterwards.

Respect for the sexual choices of both parties is missing here, and let's not pretend that girls aren't getting used whenever possible, OK guys?

Probusiness said:

And we shouldn't have Welfare. If someone TRULY needs financial assistance then I am happy to give that to them: but not for free - nothing is free in this world. If you need money and don't have a job then if I was in government I would tell them to come to the county office and in exchange for assisting the county we will give them a check. Then give them a broom and have them sweep the sidewalks. Or give them a paintbrush and have them paint the wall over the graffiti. Or give them a spray bottle and a cloth and have them clean the entry doors.

In my municipality, if you are unemployed and need medical assistance or food stamps or unemployment any form of welfare, you have to enroll either in an adult education course (if you don't have a GED or diploma) If you do have a high school diploma or GED, you're REQUIRED to enroll in their welfare-to-work program.

According to the terms of the program:

1) You have to perform 20 hours of work in a government office building. Assignments can range from sorting mail to delivering mail throughout a building, those with typing or computer skills perform receptionist/secretary work, those without criminal backgrounds can be assigned to assist program administrators with other client intake and assignment placement, document processing and typing. When I was in the program I ended up on the switchboard/dispatch for our local Animal Control office.

2) You are required to perform 20 hours of work for a local non-profit/charity--soup kitchens, homeless shelters, etc..I chose to do mine at the animal shelter.

3) You are also required to turn in 10 job contacts a week, company, contact names, phone numbers. and the caseworkers do call the number to see if you applied/showed up for an interview/were offered a job. That back-checking was performed by other people on the welfare-to-work program.

4) You are also REQUIRED to take the first job which offers you employment unless your worker doesn't approve it. (Example: I applied for a job that was advertised as 'receptionist', only to find out it was a 'receptionist' for a 'gentleman's club' and although they didn't give me the receptionist job they did offer me a job in another part of the club--apparently a lot of guys have fantasies about Asians--which my caseworker said I could take if I really wanted it (it was a lot of money) but did say if I turned it down they wouldn't penalize me,since, he said, I had other 'marketable talents' that didn't require my taking off 90% of my clothes.)

I don't know why all municipalities don't have the same kind of program.

To all those folk preaching abstinence, it is worth pointing out that there are still places in the world in which pre- or extra- marital sex is a capital crime. Several areas in the middle East punish extramarital sex with stoning. Know what the teenagers in those areas do? They have sex anyway.

Not even the threat of death will keep these kids from pawing at each other. Sure, teaching abstinence works, uh huh.

As for not paying for another's medical issues because 'they have to take responsibility', it is relatively rare to find medical issues for which the person is not responsible - e.g., If I break my arm playing football, I am responsible for having joined the team. The only way anybody else pays for my injury is if I have no insurance (or the insurance doesn't cover the issue), and I end up in the ER.

If you provide insurance, you are not paying for contraception or other pregnancy-related issues, you are paying for medical coverage. Pregnancy-related issues are indeed medical issues, so they fall under that rubric. If you want to deny that coverage, you are setting up a situation in which the taxpayers WILL pay for her care, either in emergency care, or in tax credits for her child.

All of these girls - ALL of them - who decide to have sex before they are adults will regret their decision. I wish there were some way to get them to realize they are being used. I say we go back to the days of the chastity belt.

Should doctors prescribe Vicodin, etc "Just-in-case" also? I mean you never know when you might get injured...

My tax dollars don't need to be subsidizing something i don't beleive in.

Great! Can we institute this in regards to war and military spending also? I mean it may be a little bit difficult to organize though, since every tax paying citizen has different beliefs. Oh well, I guess that just means a bigger IRS and even more spending to run it! YEAH!!!

Seriously people, get over it. Sex is sex. We've been doing it for thousands of years, we'll keep doing to for thousands more. We can either be smart about it, or be judgmental, puritanical and shameful.

That's just the opinion of this "Whore of Babylon", though.

Should doctors prescribe Vicodin, etc "Just-in-case" also? I mean you never know when you might get injured...

Well good thing you have more than a couple days to seek treatment and you aren't a child being labled with the shameful stigma of "loose woman", when you get injured. Otherwise we may have to.

mozzie- I started having sex at 16 years old. I'm not going to go recommend that all teenage girls run out and try it, but I don't regret it. I experienced that rush of hormones combined with a bit of compatability that passes for love at that age, and I experienced some heartbreak. I was educated in protecting myself, and made it to adulthood just fine. I'll tell my kids that it's a good idea to wait, and to reserve sex for people you care about, but I'll give them information to protect them in whatever they decide to to.

No thanks. I think I prefer to be informed whenever my minor daughter has any kind of need for birth control at all, and just handing it to her whenver/however isn't going to help with that.

I prefer to teach my daughter to trust me enough to come to me with such matters. Concentrate more on teaching parents to teach the same to their children if you want, but don't throw me and my daughter into the irresponsibility crowd.

j70141:

But not all parents are so open-minded and wiling to listen to their children when their children come to them about stuff like this.

jake2247 You said "Sex is enjoyable and not a crime. Girls should be able to explore having fun and not be punished with a baby. Make those pills available for them."

OMG sir! So, babies are now a punishment to women and girls? And you call that 'progressive'?

This is the very reason why I'm NOT a liberal. They got to be detached from reality and all decency to come to a outrageous conclusion like that!

inmissouri - I started having sex at 16 years old. I'm not going to go recommend that all teenage girls run out and try it, but I don't regret it.

The fact remains that you were used. If that doesn't bother you, good for you. If your partner was over 18, he committed statutory rape.

mozzie: depends on what jurisdiction inmissouri was at the time too.

plan b is already otc for 17 years +. I'm sorry, but if you're having sex before junior year of HS then maybe priorities need to be straightened. In my junior year, there were 2 girls pregnant, 1 with an abortion. And more were sexually active, I'm sure (small class in an all girls school). After 5 years since grad, from 89 grads, about 11 had kids (some more than 1 kid) and only like 4 of those girls are married. It's quite sad and I'm just thankful for having a stable home and parents involved in my life.

Are we trying to cater to loose women?

Interesting how the whole discussion has been about women, and very little about the males. Are we back to the double-standard tha women who have sex are sluts, and guys who have sex are, well, guys?

He was the same age (maybe a couple months younger?). And unless one is forcing or coercing the other, I don't see how two teenagers fooling around means one is using the other. Maybe you could say both are using the other, but that's about it...

Nothing is more frustrating then when I go grocery shopping and I am looking at sales, deciding whether it is more cost efficient to eat chicken or hamburger, and deciding whether I should get potatoes or rice for my meal and then I am in line behind someone with Food Stamps with a cart filled one foot above the top of the cart with steaks, hams, and cakes from the bakery.

I've never seen someone on food stamps who was able to eat better than me. But, that's not to say that doesn't happen now and then. But, what you're not seeing, "probusiness", is that for every person like the one you've described, there are hundreds of families are are desperately trying to stretch their food stamps to make it through the month. In 2012, the maximum food stamp benefit for a family of four which had ZERO net income is $668. That works out to about $5.57 per person per day. I don't know where you shop, but I can't fill my grocery card with steaks, hams and cakes on that budget.

Are we trying to cater to loose women?

Barry - Interesting how the whole discussion has been about women, and very little about the males.

Not about women, about girls. Big difference. We can't call a girl "loose" because a girl, as opposed to a woman, does not have mature reasoning; their brains are not fully developed to be able to make adult decisions about--anything, really. Ultimately, what we have here are kids (male and female) playing grown-up, sometimes with serious consequences. They are going to do whatever they want, usually, and it is our job as adults to protect them as much as we can until they are grown.

Black is white and white is black huh krounded?

We will pay for that folly, dearly. It will just take a little while. The reversal of moral codes from 30-40 years ago have already manifested themselves in the persistent and irreconcilable problems we see today.

There's more and worse to come.

Riight.. The "good old days" when blacks were second class citizens and beating your wife and kids was acceptable. Gotcha. The good old days.

Amanda-2017567

For everyone who doesn't advocate for this, let me give you a scenario;

There's a 14 year old girl going to a n expensive private school. Her parents are devout Irish Catholics who are very uptight about sex, to the point where she''s never been allowed to have a sex ed class. her older is 18, got pregnant without fist being married, and was kicked out of the house and disowned.

One day she misses the bus coming home from school. She knows her parents are going to be furious if one of them has to leave work and come pick her up, so when a (male) classmate's older brother drives up and offers to give her a rid home so she doesn't have to call her parents, she agrees and gets in the car with them.

The ride home becomes a lesson in sex-ed...the hard way.

She's too ashamed to tell her parents she accepted a ride from a classmate and was gang-raped, so she takes a shower when she gets home, tries to hide what happened. A coupe of weeks later she starts throwing up. She tells her parents it's the stomach flu, but she suspects she's pregnant, and a pregnancy test.bought from the local drugstore with carefully-hoarded lunch money confirms it.

She can't tell her parents--she knows how they will react. She and her sister have been brought up with the mantra that 'if it happens to you, it's your fault'. Her sister has already been kicked out of the house for getting pregnant without first being married. She's terrified she's going to end up the same way. A friend at school finally asks her whats wrong, and she tells her friend..and her friend tells her mother, and one day they sign her out of school and take her to a clinic to be seen by a doctor. the doctor confirms her pregnancy, but also informs her that hr body isn't developed enough to carry a child safely and an abortion is recommended. The girl is terrified of the abortion, but even more afraid of what would happen if she told her parents she's pregnant so she agrees to the procedure, and the friend's mother paid for the abortion.

Wouldn't a morning-after pill have been easier? If you would not advocate for a morning after ill for her, how would you have handled this? What would you do?

(Yes, I knew the girl this actually happened to at my high school.)

If you knew this girl and did not call the police for being gang raped, I think your pretty sick in the head....and then spin this for your agenda? How sad....how VERY sad.

They are going to do whatever they want, usually, and it is our job as adults to protect them as much as we can until they are grown.

Denying sexually active females emergency birth control is hardly "protecting" them. Pregnancy is a much bigger health risk. And, I wasn't the one who called them women. I was quoting another poster who apparently thinks that females, unlike males, are not entitled to have sex.

Thanks 'progressives'

You're welcome Phil. It's better than being Regressive.

Shosyn:

By the time I was in school and heard whispers about this, she was a couple grades ahead of me, ready to graduate, and it's pretty hard to report a rape when the statute of limitations ran out, it happened three years previous, and there was no evidence, nor did the victim herself want to file a complaint since it would have exposed what happened and gotten her kicked out of her house and disowned by her parents. She chose to keep silent and get the abortion so that she could go on to college and eventually play first violin for a nationally-popular orchestra.

The older brother of the two went on to play football for a prominent college and the younger took over the family business--both were from a very rich, elitist family. And then about ten years ago the younger brother died of hepatitis C.

Karma. Sometimes the Great Equalizer is the only one who can deal justice that fits the crime.

And as for my agenda...no, I don't advocate for teen sex. I do think parents shold be aware of what's going on with their children. I do think that parents should know if the doctor has given their child a prescription for the morning-after pill. But if the parent is more worried about their values than in listening to their children, and the child doesn't feel that they can talk to their parent(s) about being raped without being afraid the parent will blame them for it or find themselves homeless, then yes, there has to be an out for children like those, and I do think it should be an over-the-counter drug. There are 'male enhancement herbal supplements' that are over-the-counter--why not pills for girls?

@Steve C-526943

Post #1.4, you're not paying for this, its not a tax payer issue, its an availability issue, and Obama care is not a "tax" its allowed under the constitutional provisions of the taxing authority, The ignorance of people thinking that the Affordable Health Care act is raising taxes just astounds me, they are know nothings who shoot their mouths off without understanding one damn thing about economics, constitutional law, or he way our government is suppose to work.

What happened is per the Supreme court; it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for the Federal government to MAKE you pay for healthcare or be fined. The only way this finally did pass is due to the Supreme Court rewording it as a "tax"Below is information from CNN: money.cnn.com/2012/06/28/pf/taxes/health_reform_new_taxes/index.htm

"The federal government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for a divided court. "The federal government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance."

This goes for ALL business who will be fined "taxed", as well as individuals who will pay a "tax" on their tax returns in 2015.

The federal government is set to spend more than $1 trillion over the next decade to do so to make this happen. Individuals who will help foot the tab -- directly or indirectly -- include very high-income households, those with very generous health benefits at work, those who opt to remain uninsured and those who love a good indoor tan.

Please tell me what you define "taxing authority" as? Because, as I see it; taxing authority is defined as to assess, levy, and collect taxes. It can be limited to very specific group of people (local school or fire district).

There have been studies stating, depending on the health of the sperm, as well as fallopian tubes, conception can occur within the first 30 minutes after. Conception can also occur up to 5 days (or longer with very healthy sperm) or within 24 hours after sex. If one takes the morning after pill, that is on them. However, the meaning of this article is about girls needing it. If you are in a commited monogamy relationship and the condom broke; that is what this pill is for (besides rape or incest, not in article). This pill is not for "girls" or "boys" not being protected. It is rewarding irresponsible behavior with an easy way out; for child and parent.

OMG sir! So, babies are now a punishment to women and girls? And you call that 'progressive'?

This is the very reason why I'm NOT a liberal. They got to be detached from reality and all decency to come to a outrageous conclusion like that!

Jake isn't a 'progressive'...he's a user. Plenty of conservative Republicans use girls and women too. Please don't equate political leanings with sexuality morality or lack thereof. Look around you: the conservatives would lose that argument, badly.

"Morning-after pills can prevent pregnancy -- they don’t cause abortions"

I think that's a convenient 'interpretation', not a scientific fact.

Since Obama was re-elected, I'm sure we'll have lots of new 'progressive interpretations' on a variety of issues, not just health care.

I think we will have a lot of legal challenges that will have to be settled by the Supreme Court - especially when the President uses "Executive Orders" to tell federal agencies to ignore enforcing federal laws that he doesn't like - like on immigration.

Did you even bother to read the article, Roy? Apparently not:

The most common form of emergency contraception is a high dose of a regular birth control pill such as Plan B and Plan B One-Step from Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd or Next Choice from Watson Pharmaceuticals Inc. They generally sell for $10 to $80 and are most effective in the first 24 hours.

All work by preventing ovulation, not by stopping the implantation of a fertilized egg. "These are not abortifacients," said Breuner.

But not all parents are so open-minded and wiling to listen to their children when their children come to them about stuff like this.

As I said, don't throw me and my daughter in the irresponsibility crowd.

It's not your job nor mine to parent everyone elses' children, and you shouldn't try to parent mine just because you think someone else's may need it.

Want to teach parents, go right ahead. Want to parent for them/me/us, prepare to get your nose slapped.

I think that's a convenient 'interpretation', not a scientific fact.

Isn't that a little like "I know you are but what am I" You are confusing the plan b pill with another morning after pill and the abortion pill. Please take a few moments to educate yourself. They do not even contain the same type of medication.

http://www.choiceandhealth.com/whatisthedifference.htm

Since Obama was re-elected, I'm sure we'll have lots of new 'progressive interpretations' on a variety of issues, not just health care.

We will most certainly continue to have backward thinking on any number of issues from the Flat Earthers. Some people will continue to insist that the Earth is 6 thousand years old, that climate change has nothing to do with burning fossil fuels, that a woman who is 'legitimately raped' can't get pregnant. etc.

Willful ignorance knows no time or place, and it never takes a holiday.

@ RB-376263 - Why should I pay for your viagra?

j70141:

my apologies I did NOT mean to imply I was being critical of you or your parenting skills...you're to be commended for even being able to think of your child and the word 'sex' in the same sentence without having a nervous breakdown!

But not all parents are like you, are as understanding and open-minded as you are.

If condoms to avoid pregnancy are available over the counter, then pills to avoid pregnancy should be available over the counter too.

ellie888 -

Actually, it's not. There have been several studies to determine whether hormone regulatory pills, shots, etc., cause a cessation of implantation. These studies found that the rate of failure to implant was not affected.

The whole trope over whether birth control affects implantation is horse@!$%#, run by the conservative christians in order to promote their forced-birth agenda:

Step 1: Claim "life" (without defining it) begins at conception.

Step 2: Claim you care for that life, even at the expense of actual living people, and people who don't want to make baby jebus cry need to stop everyone else from choosing what's right for themselves.

Step 3: Make up a bunch of phoney-baloney bull@!$%#, like the claim that abortions lead to breast cancer, or psychosis, or whatever the crap du jour is. Infuse politics into the scientific community. Have a political litmus test for every scientific discovery and advent, and if it doesn't meet your goals, denounce it and keep your loony followers from ever glomming on to the fact that you're full of @!$%#.

Step 4: Profit! No, not even kidding, have you seen the bankrolls for these idiots? Millions of dollars, pouring in day after day. But no, seriously, it MUST be "Big Pharma" ripping you off again, so please send me money NOW!

I am not aware of any studies that definitively say that Plan B specifically (NOT other contraceptive methods) does not affect implantation rate. If you know of one, please send me the link.

And I am not aware of any studies that definitively say that garlic doesn't keep vampires away.

I am so sick and tired of the Democrat party shoving this birth control issue down my throat and to thoe who feel the same way. As Independent woman who has nothing against birth control but why should the tax payers flip the bill for the rest of those who demand it like Sandra Flucke or what ever her name is. Hey to all you woman out there in America why don't you make the men help pay for it . It takes two!!!!!!!!!

I am pregnant now and frequent an online forum for other women who are expecting at around the same time I am. There is a "plan B Failure" thread, and there are quite a few women on it who used plan B and still ended up pregnant. So I suspect that they already had a fertilized egg when the pill was taken, sometime between fertilization and implantation. The timeline doesn't work out any other way, since fertilization doesn't always occur at the instant of male climax, and takes between 7 and 10 days for the fertlized egg to implant into the uterine lining. Plan B is to be taken up to 5 days after intercourse that was unplanned, forced or during which plan A methods of birth control failed.

As Independent woman who has nothing against birth control but why should the tax payers flip the bill for the rest of those who demand it like Sandra Flucke or what ever her name is.

I'll tell you why you should "flip" (I think you mean foot, but I'll humor you) the bill for birth control: It's cheaper than paying for welfare, food stamps, medicaid and other government funding that unwanted children and single parents rely on for the rest of their lives. IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE.

Ellie--sorry, but even if plan B DEFINITELY prevented implantation, the ONLY people that should have any effect on is those narrow definition (cough, cough, minded) folks who BELIEVE that 'life begins at conception.

That is RELIGION folks, and has no place in the laws of the land. I'm a Christian, and have my old family bible, complete with all the hand written birth/death announcements, and it was published in the middle of the 1800's, and it specifically states that God created Adam from dust, and BREATHED life into him.

Funny, but last time I checked, a Fetus or an embryo CANNOT BREATH. But hey--that is MY RELIGION.

I don't expect ANYONE else to have to obey or live by MY religious beliefs, so why should any OTHER believers be allowed to dictate THEIR religious beliefs on any body else EITHER? (and of course, the answer, is they shouldn't.)

If you don't believe in _______(insert choice here--abortion, morning after pill, condoms, eating meat, smoking marijuana, eating chocolate for breakfast, etc) then DON'T DO IT.

Just don't try to tell anyone ELSE that they can't do it either.

Janstince..."forced birth agenda"...Really?!?! Thats like calling people who oppose murder as having a "forced living agenda". The United States has become so immoral. It's sickening. People commit sin and expect others (tax payers) to bail them out. If you have sex and get pregnant its your responsibility to raise the child. Our society is so twisted now. "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" - Isaiah 5:20. Birth control, condoms, sex ed classes, money, the government, etc will not "fix" America. You can't legislate wickedness from hearts. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" - Jeremiah 17:9. Only the gospel can change hearts. I pray that God's Spirit would move through our nation and awaken the people to see their sin against God, and the beauty and sufficiency of Christ.

Agreed, and well stated.

Justin,

Newsflash. Not everyone believes in God, and I hope to see the day where the majority of intelligent people who don't aren't suffered to it being shoved down our throat and infiltrating our legal system. GET YOUR BIBLE OUT OF OUR @!$%#ING LAWS AND OUT OF MY BEDROOM.

No problem PreceededbyNone: You may continue with your sinful lifestyle all the way to hell. There, feel better?

As Independent woman who has nothing against birth control but why should the tax payers flip the bill for the rest of those who demand it like Sandra Flucke or what ever her name is.

I'll tell you why you should "flip" (I think you mean foot, but I'll humor you) the bill for birth control: It's cheaper than paying for welfare, food stamps, medicaid and other government funding that unwanted children and single parents rely on for the rest of their lives. IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE.

The other reason you should "flip" or "foot" the bill is because Mr Obama and the democrats realize that their minions voters can't be accountable and responsible for themselves; they want their minions voters to be reliant on the government; and for that to happen they need you to pay for it. IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE

Not everyone believes in God,

And many who believe in God are also not Christians.

@The Truth, @Justin TR

And your position is that anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do is condemned to eternal punishment?

Justin -

I'm one of those REALLY scary atheists, the one who takes your vague-sounding "prophecies" from some moldy old book and just LAUGHS IN YOUR FACE about it! Yeah, I'm one of those thumbs my nose (and other body parts, too) in your direction.

You can't come up with real reasons (read: taking place in actual reality) for why birth control is bad, so you just tie it into your religion, and bemoan the general state of things (really? covered in darkness when our murder rates have been dropping for decades now?) through the lens of "it was better back in the day when (we could burn witches; we could shame and shun and stone those evil temptress sluts; we could rape women from sunup to sundown and then make fun of them as they hobbled off to their families who would humiliate them even further; take your pick of the golden day oldies).

And yes, you do have a forced-birth agenda. Not only are you making it defacto impossible for working women to be able to have a safe abortion, but you're actively seeking to end the dejuro ruling of the SCOTUS that allows protections for women's medical rights of self-determination. Not only that, but you are also actively rolling back women's ability to get birth control on their own terms (pharmacy "conscience laws" anyone?). So yes, you want women to get pregnant every time they have sex, and you want to force them to give birth. Hence, forced-birth agenda.

Oh, and you can go Galt all you want. Somalia is "that-a-way."

no we don't feel better..because people like you are still keeping this from being easily accessible. We're still waiting for all of you to stay out of our business

Janstince: You aren't scary. You are just one of the many sinners bound for hell. I don't find that scary at all. In fact it will be a treat spending eternity with people that don't behave like animals. Have a nice eternity. We'll miss you.....NOT

The thing that kind of bothers me is that people talk about fertilized eggs as though 100% of them proceed to birth of a healthy baby. This is completely not the case. About 10-20% of pregnancies result in miscarriage (from a web-site called babycenter), and, depending on what source you look up, somewhere between 18-50% of fertilized eggs are rejected before implantation (in women not on birth control). So to be fair, even if methods of birth control work by rejecting fertilized eggs, they're not doing anything a woman's body doesn't do on it's own-so why is there only outrage against birth control, and no demands being made to study why the uterus rejects so many fertilized eggs naturally, and how that amount can be lowered?

Justin,

Your religion, not mine

ByNone

"I'll tell you why you should "flip" (I think you mean foot, but I'll humor you) the bill for birth control: It's cheaper than paying for welfare, food stamps, medicaid and other government funding that unwanted children and single parents rely on for the rest of their lives. IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE."

Because the Government is the answer to every problem? How about we try different solutions than just the Government bailing everybody out, you know that has worked well, it has only cost us 16 trillion and counting in debt, and no matter how much borrowed money we throw at the problem, the problem doesn't seem to go away, Weird and people like you want to continue to solve problems with the Government borrowing money.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

The Truth -

Oh NOES! Some random @!$%# on the internet is telling me I'm going to hell. Much, much worse than that @!$%#head Baptist pastor at my grandmother's funeral using the passing of a loved one to prey on the weak; proselytize to the unenlightened; save our souls. I'm sure.

Here's an idea; you bemoan the current state of the world, and you keep saying what a great place this "heaven" is. So why don't you go ahead and do us a favor and take an early train to get there, leaving those of us who actually do live in reality the chance to make it better without asshats like you coming in and @!$%#ting all over the carpet? Seriously, if your god is so great, why postpone the meeting? Why bother with all this temptation for sin when you could go now? Quick! Hurry! They're calling boarders now!

Dont feed justin, he is a rereg troll

Janstince: Sounds good. You just keep your skanky legs spread and I'll just go to heaven. Deal.

@ Preceded, Janstince, Mike, SeveredHead, et. al. :

And if someone were to recommend (insist) that you keep your murderous hostility out of my universe?

Would you see the self-righteous arrogance that so exactly defines you then?

Probably not.

And to think that's the very sin you most love to find and condemn so often in others! --the very thing that gives you that so obvious odor--that smug sense of superiority. Tsk. Tsk. What a shame. What a waste of life.

And if we don't see the same "superior" creature standing in your shoes that you're so sure of, but just another ignorant, intellectual weakling and judgmental bigot? Then?

See my post above for a purely sociological reason that your position is completely indefensible.

And stop it with this arrogant pretense that a theist is necessarily an inbred idiot with a marginal IQ.

(Hint: whether you read it or not, others will, and therefore you might want to know that you've just been put in your proper place by someone who isn't anywhere nearly as knuckle-dragging stupid as you insinuate he ought to be by your yardstick, or, for that matter, even as slow-witted as you are yourselves, which is certainly clear enough even if you can't be entirely faulted for being too dull to realize it.)

I suspect that 95% of the people against widespread availability of birth control would have a completely different opinion if it was THEIR little girl that got knocked up. I also suspect that most of you would have a cow if your innocent little baby boy got some "tramp" pregnant because he didn't even bother with a condom. It's so easy to have all these theories, but when you are living the nightmare you find out what's reality. God help them if one of your kids made poor choices because you'd probably throw them out in the street, babies and all.

Granny - Birth control is available at every drug store and convenience store, for a reality low price.

In world did you decide that it isn't available widespread?

Moralists:

If you have sex and get pregnant its your responsibility to raise the child.

Law of the Land

If you have sex and get pregnant its your responsibility to raise the child, give it up for adoption, or terminate the pregnancy.

Glad we are a Nation of Laws!

JohnThinks -

Firstly, your moniker is misleading. "John Birch" would be more fitting, considering the racist screed you promote in your post above. Seriously, importing labor and supplanting native-born children with others? Yeah, go ahead, racist asshat, make my day.

As for spreading my legs, well, I wouldn't consider that to be conducive to pregnancy in my case, but that's just because I have the wrong equipment. I'm sure you learned all about that in your "Sex is for HELL!" class, somewhere.

Also, I have nothing against Christians in general. I have plenty against those with an overweaning sense of accomplishment over what is basically mental masturbation. That word salad up there designed to hide your racism failed at everything you probably wanted, but still succeeded in pointing out your racism and sexism (so the "native" women are now just brood mothers, waiting to be implanted by "native" sons for the propagation of the American Genome Way).

Do you ever read what you write from the point of view of an outsider? Or is your point of view the only one that matters?

Also, kinda funny you proclaiming others to be so self-righteous. Why, I bet, that by some strange coincidence, your god just happens to hate all the people you hate, and love all the people you love, right? And has appointed you its specific spokesperson for the entire world?

The only person who has the right to judge human beings is God.

It's been my experience that it's more often then not the children of those like Tom and the other "holier than thous" posting, are the very ones that have the daughters that can't keep their legs together and the sons that are gonna "get it" one way or the other. The preachers daughter in high school was the biggest slut at the high school. And the parents who think they have taught their kids "responsibility and morals" are the ones who need to be put in a straight jacket when they find out little Johnny and little Suzie are the very "heathens" they have so sanctimoniously accused others of being. Damn that karma!

Whitz -

Please. Come down off that high horse before you fall and break your neck. Or, you know, don't. Whichever, don't really care.

Cliche is cliche, and broken at that.

Some women have real ethical and moral concerns about preventing implantation, and they deserve to be informed that it is a possibility.

There's no problem as long as you're making those ethical decisions for yourself, and not trying to use the state to impose your misguided ethics on everyone else.

I'm just saying that it is misleading of the article to flat-out claim that Plan B does not prevent implantation, because it very well might. We don't know. This lack of knowledge needs to be included in the discussion about emergency contraceptives, for the benefit of women who might have problems with the prevention of implantation.

ellie, if you had even half the sense you were intended to be born with, you'd know that Plan B is not intended to work by preventing implantation, but it may.

Key word: "MAY".

skrekk, is one moral and ethical beliefs "misguided" just because you don't believe in the same?

ELLIE: Why are you focused on the issue of how Plan B works? I'm not a woman, but I will venture to guess that a woman who is taking the Plan B pill would place HOW it works way down low on list of priorities.

Someone who's "ethical considerations" might prevent using the pill; has gone against their own ethics at the point of insertion of the male organ, not the point of using the pill.

@ RB- First off its not your tax dollars being used to provide free birth control. Reread the article and do some real research. Second of all, the medicine is over the counter and they have to pay for the medicine themselves or if their parents. Nowhere in the article or even in the FDA statement did it say the birth control would be free or is free. So please educate yourself and read the article. It is about making emergency contracetpives over the counter and available for all women. Nowhere in the article did it say anything about them being provided for free.

Why do we have so many idiotic people who refuse to read the article? It even tells you the prices the emergency contraceptives range from. Damn. I really wish people would read the article before making completely irrevelant and idiotic comments. It is just ridiculous.

And another thing the AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE ACT made ALL PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE PROVIDERS cover women contraceptives. That means that women who pay their monthly premiums for their own private health insurance pay for their own contraceptives. He made ALL HEALTH INSURANCE PROVIDERS COVER WOMEN CONTRACEPTIVES. THAT includes all PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE PROVIDERS. That means YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR ANOTHER WOMAN'S CONTRACEPTIVES. SHE IS PAYING FOR HER OWN. THEY DEBIT HER ACCOUNT EVERY MONTH. NOT YOURS. THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE. Its just plain stupidity for people to say otherwise. All people have to do is research, read, and listen to what the President and other politicians say. People act like doing these simple things is just too damn difficult. It just doesn't make sense. I mean this @!$%# is ridiculous. Its just out of control how people just refuse to use their brain and actually think for themselves and write intelligent comments based of factual information.

Ellie, it's pretty simple - do not use plan B if you do not want to. No one is forcing it down your throat.

Suspended--AMEN. Sadly, tho, that is not the point Ellie is trying to make. She assumes that any one who (in the course of a set time), had a condom break or was raped (which the article states were the two most comon reasons for NEEDING emergency contraception) will CARE about how the pill works.

And she is also no doubt assuming that HER opinion on the moral dilemma should affect the decision ANYONE ELSE makes.

I am flabergasted that the same folks who will use the argument that 'an 11 might get the pill and "might not understand the consequences" ' (from the article!) cannot understand that an 11 year old can understand THOSE consequences just as easily as they can the consequences of an unwanted BABY hung around their neck for the next 18 years.

And for many of those 11 year olds, the 'punisher' who insists that HAVING that baby is what she should 'HAVE' to do is their 'loving' parents.

There is nothing in this article that suggests that taxpayer money would be used for these prescriptions. If a teenager is going to her pediatrician and getting the prescription, her insurance or her parents would pay for it.

There is also nothing in this article that suggests that the pediatrician would give this prescription to the teenager without their parents' knowledge.

The comments about how somehow teen pregnancy is all the girl's fault because she didn't keep her legs closed would be laughable, if only it weren't so sad and pathetic. How about instead of putting all the blame on the girls, you start teaching your sons how to keep it in their pants. Women don't get pregnant by themselves. The responsibility rests equally on both the male and the female.

roc1960 - skrekk, is one moral and ethical beliefs "misguided" just because you don't believe in the same?

The point is that your twisted sense of morality should be used to control your life, not the lives of other people.

Other people's wombs and sex lives aren't your business.

sweetcancer - Best. Comment. Ever.

And thank you for putting into words the frustrations I have over people who can't comprehend basic information.

skrekk, "My twisted sense of Morality"??? Again I ask of you why is it when one has a different "view" then you it is twisted or misguided? Simply based on the fact that one's view may differ than yours? How can you even surmise such a thought when you don't even know what my views or beliefs are? But then you state they are "twisted". How is that skrekk?

roc1960 - Again I ask of you why is it when one has a different "view" then you it is twisted or misguided? Simply based on the fact that one's view may differ than yours?

I base that on other threads where it's clear that you think the government should enforce Jim Crow laws against gays. Your sense of morality (and civil rights) is definitely effed up.

But note that I was speaking upthread in more general terms - the government should no more be enforcing your twisted morality than my twisted morality. Your moral views about sex and birth control shouldn't be controlling other people's lives.

well skrekk Wrong again! Oh so wrong! But keep trying! Some day?

roc1960 - well skrekk Wrong again!

Really? Maybe you should read your own comment which I linked to above. It's quite apparent that you think Jim Crow laws are OK, and that straights should have a legal right which is denied to gays. You either believe in equal treatment under the law or you don't, and you clearly don't.

You're no better than the racist Southern Baptists of 50 years ago who thought that mixed-race couples should be denied the right to marry.

skrekk, you crack me up! If you only knew.

Roc, how do you feel about Jews? Should they also be denied the right to marry and have to use civil unions instead?

Which other Americans do you think should be denied their 14th Amendment right of equal protection?

Where did I say anyone should be denied rights?

Just as I thought.

@Wiscoe. Thank you. And you are welcome. I apologize for the late reply.

I guess you also like killing unborn children too. People should pay for their own contraceptives. I shouldnt have to.

Bobby: Once again, The article says nothing about who is to pay for it; just that it should be available! They are two different issues, people.

May I take from your post that you don't mind watching the welfare costs skyrocket for those of us who pay taxes?????

Or do you not pay taxes?

Hey Bobby, again, You do not have to pay for their contraceptives. Reread the article. It is about making emergency contraceptives available over the counter for women of all ages. Meaning, they will still have to pay out of pocket if they want the medicine. OVER THE COUNTER DOES NOT EQUAL FREE. I REALLY WISH YOU and all of your other ignorant buddies would get this fact through your dense ass skulls. I mean it is simple, READ THE DAMN ARTICLE. Your comments are idiotic and and are not based on facts at all. Just like Tylenol is over the counter, and you have to pay for the tylenol if you want it, the emergenct contraceptives work the same damn way. Damn. PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE. Im so tired of idiots like you. All you have to do is READ. I promise it's not that hard.

Religion actually encourages common sense, it is common sense that sex can lead to pregnancy, so it's only common sense to refrain from sex until you're ready to accept that responsibility. Science does not solve problems, it creates a bandaid to cover up the wound and prevent finding the real solution. So common sense IS the real solution.

I have 4 daughters and I told each one this same thing, girls have sex with whoever they WANT to, boys have sex with whoever will LET them. Gues what, only one of my daughters has a child, and that was after she got married. It's strange how a little common sense worked.

It's called maintainance--I TRULY hope you don't think your married daughter is the only one who has had sex.

The others either got themselves on the pill, forced the guy to use condoms (and were lucky enough to never have one break) or were just plain lucky.

Because when hormones are raging, common sense goes out the window.

Tom - You're assuming things that I haven't said, just like you're assuming things from the article that aren't there!! I have not given any indication in my postings about my views on taxes, welfare, healthcare, paying taxes . . .

As Sweet says, the fact is that the article does not mention paying for the pills--that is an ENTIRELY different issue. I don't mean that it is not an important one--just that this article is not about that. I'm sure there is another article that speaks about the payment/insurance issue, but this isn't it.

It's fascinating to me how many Catholics I know how live with their partners before marriage and have children before they marry. I haven't asked but I would guess they had sex before they got married. Now I'm not Catholic and don't have anything against Catholics, but I do wonder how in the instances I know of, they have no problem with pre-marital sex but they have a problem with abortion. If both are sins in God's eyes, how would you determine which is worse? A sin is a sin, right? So, it's called Maintenance, I would have to say with your four daughters, telling your girls that boys have sex with "whomever will let them" (sexist to say the least and idiotic to say the most) I would tell you that your daughters either used birth control, are young, never got pregnant or had abortions and just never told you. It's not that Religion encourages "common sense". The fact is that sex can easily lead to pregnancy and absolutely no birth control (or combination of birth controls) has been proven 100% effective. I have a girlfriend that twice got pregnant on Depo Provera, Twice! Do you assume that girls have no desire to have sex? Think again. Girls have just as much sex drive as guys, only at a different time in their growth. Neither of my children is sexually active with their girlfriend or boyfriend as of yet but they certainly masturbate. Oh, sorry, did you tell your daughters that would grow hair on their palms? Or did you say they would require glasses? You are out of touch with life and society. If a guy does not want to impregnant a girl - he needs to wear at condom at all times. THAT'S what I tell my son. If a person values themself, they don't have sex without having the guy wear a condom for disease protection. THAT's what I tell both of my children. Get with the times.

this is funny, ok MOmaid, no I don't think that my married daughter is the only one of them who has had sex, but by empowering them to be responsible for their own actions it also encouraged them to think twice before acting, thus enabling them to prepare ahead of time. They did not get themselves on the pill they came to their mother and I and we discussed it with them, the oldest daughter was 18 before she felt the need to get on birth control because she was in a relationship that was moving in that direction, she is now 27, single and still no kids. The next daughter is the one who is married, again same discussion about birth control except she was 17 at the time and in a serious relationship with the young man who she married at the age of 20. the two other girls are both in college and very commited to their education and future careers one of them went on the birth control when she was 19 and the other went on them at 18 because of medical problems, I know she is still a virgin because if you can't tell already, we have an honest parent child relationship. And Margo, Margo, Margo, strange how you are fixated on whether they Mastubate, but I can tell you that I am sure they do, nothing wrong with that, especially if it provides them the relief to step back and make a good decision about when, where, and with whom the decide to LET have sex with them. And no my comment to them was not sexist at all it was the truth, unless a girl is raped, the final say as to wheter or not a guy is going to have sex with them is their choice. My oldest daughter is as femenist as they come and she has thanked me for those words, because the reinforced that she was in control of her own life, her own destiny, and that no guy/man could change that, it would be her decision.

As for my son, I taught him the same thing I did my daughters, that the girl had final say and if she said no that was the end of it, go get a magazine. But if she did say yes he better be ready for his life to change if she got pregnant. He is 22, single and no kids. So regardless of what anybody says, the human brain and our ability to exhibit common sense is the strongest method when applied.

My sentiments exactly Margo. That is real. Thank you. Thank you. I really couldn't have said it better myself.

Here is how cost is relevent to this discussion:

The cost of raising a child is from $250,000 to $300,000 in the last article I read. That does not include higher education.

The cost of the Plan B medication....aprox $50. But, regardless of the child-mothers' views on birth control....someone is going to pay the bill one way or the other.

As a tax payer, I would rather shell out the cost of the pill for 6000 young women. The cost of raising one child. We all know that a child raising a child is a life sentance, with real low chance of being financially or otherwise successful. For both mother and child.

"We all know that a child raising a child is a life sentance"

So this is how our culture views having children, akin to a prison sentence. Children are a precious gift and a lack of children is part of the problem in Europe and many other advanced countries.

MARGO and ITS CALLED MAINTENANCE:

I hear you both saying the same thing in different words and for different reasons. Fascinating.

I was raised Catholic, but have since found spirituality which works much better for me.

I have 4 daughters and I told each one this same thing, girls have sex with whoever they WANT to, boys have sex with whoever will LET them

No joke, Maynard. Comments about guys keeping it zipped up add nothing to the discussion. I raised 2 boys, taught them to respect themselves and their girlfriends enough to not put it in anyone they wouldn't marry. I also taught them about birth control. Now that they are both grown and married, they have both told me that the first part was good advise, but the second part kept them safe.

If a guy does not want to impregnant a girl - he needs to wear at condom at all times. THAT'S what I tell my son. If a person values themself, they don't have sex without having the guy wear a condom for disease protection. THAT's what I tell both of my children.

I see 2 parents that are doing their jobs....creating and raising responsible children.

Cudos.

It's so cool some of you live in this bubble of perfection where no girls are raped, pressured into sex, lonely and wishing for love and thinking that sex is the same thing, none get molested, and all birth control works perfectly. You who think that "girls have sex with who (sic) they want to" are woefully sheltered or willfully ignorant. Some do, and some don't get choices or don't feel they have one. Some get a bit of a choice but aren't sure and make a mistake. Some use protection and either aren't perfect or it fails.

If so many adult women don't use birth control perfectly many of the time, how do you expect teens who may not read all the directions, be totally prepared, and may not be able or careful enough to use birth control perfectly to never make any mistakes?

It amazes me how self-righteous some of you are. I would never do that or my kids are perfect or all girls should keep their legs together, etc. , but what a narrow-minded view that is! If so many people are so perfect and don't make any mistakes, never get attacked, abused, or have horrible things happen, never have done anything they regret or didn't think about beforehand, and so many of you are perfect in your own perfect little worlds, then why are so many unwanted or surprise babies born? Why are so many kids abused? Why are so many little boys raped by clergy and coaches and why are children abandoned and end up pregnant or abducted or starved or homeless...we could go on and on. The world isn't perfect and those of you who believe that your children are totally protected are correct in that. So how about just for one moment you use some compassion and be realistic instead of sitting judging people you don't know? Work with abused kids, at a women's shelter, children's advocate for molested children, visit homeless shelters, and go look at the real world. Maybe you haven't lived in that, but it is all around if you look.

This isn't about any of you paying for this since it would be otc, so you can drop that argument. But you know, I think Viagra is wrong and don't want to pay for all you old men who can't get it up! Too bad for you!!! Stop going around with your pants unzipped and get your mind out of the gutter!!!!!

I really don't feel that way and my statement was rude and thoughtless. So are all your statements about girls and open legs and sluts and so forth. My point is that we all pay for things we don't agree with that others use. It's not my fault you smoke, but your insurance may pay for you stopping your habit. I don't smoke and I don't want to pay for your bad choices...hmm. Sound familiar? Your heart meds? I don't want to pay for your broken leg you got because you were stupid enough to climb that tree drunk, your liver transplant because you got some disease and I sure as heck don't want to pay for your rehab, either. And I don't ever drive down your street, so why should I pay taxes for anything but the streets I want to use? Freeloaders....

See how nasty, rude, and selfish that all sounded? It was. I am happy to pay my fair share of taxes and I pay a huge health care premium as well. If it helps your heart keep beating or your liver working that is part of why we pay premiums and okay with me. If you get an std because your wife cheats on you (or you cheat) I will help pay for that as well, and that is how communities work. If I have a problem with your lifestyle choices it isn't really my business if you aren't hurting people or breaking laws, so if you get an std you go to your doctor and get that shot and yes, I will be helping you pay for it. Why should I pay for your hospitalizations for COPD if you keep on smoking..or even if you don't? Because that's the way it works. And yes, if you or your partner need birth control I will be helping you pay for that, too, and I have no problem with that whether I would use it personally or not.

Somehow when it relates to women, sex, reproduction, or teens some get all bent out of shape, but it's all the same idea. This wasn't even about you paying for anything, so you can rest easy.

Matthew Coon: You know dam well what I meant. Don't be rediculous.

Margo,

Sorry about the pregnancies during depo provera. I'm not sure how effective it is considering I've heard more cases of women getting pregnant from this type of bc than any other, but that's just me. I agree with you concerning Catholics, however. I attended a Catholic all girls high school. Some girls were pregnant by junior year. A few have had kids since HS and I'm only 23, so you can just imagine. I will disagree with you about the sex education, though. In my health class, we had to make a portfolio on all the different types of contraceptives on the market, effective rates, failure rates, and risk/benefits. I guess it stuck to some and not to others. Of course, abstinence is 100% =]

ram,

It's so cool some of you live in this bubble of perfection where no girls are raped, pressured into sex, lonely and wishing for love and thinking that sex is the same thing, none get molested, and all birth control works perfectly.

I agree that young girls get raped, in which case the perpetrators should be murdered and their remains burned, but if you want to insult girls by saying that they have sex because they are pressured, lonely, or think sex=love, then I most certainly disagree with you. These girls just need a role model, more self esteem, and other hobbies. They need to be empowered, and not coddled with plan b. Besides, just because its available does not mean young girls will know how to use it. 1. it must be used within 72 hrs and 2. it can only be used at max 3 times per year due to the strong hormones. Its dangerous and not a solution to a much bigger problem.

Also, I read an article in the newspaper about abortion rates dropping 5% in the past decade or so. Experts attribute it to better use of bc. I'd say bc's are a win-win for both liberals and conservatives, but watch the conservatives resist any type of quality of life improvement by the hands of scientists.

@Ram: Thank you for saying everything I have been wanting to say. You said it perfectly. Those are my sentiments exactly. You phrased my feelings perfectly. I am so glad we have people like you.

Whether the culture glorifies it or not, there will be premarital sex.

You may reduce it with more education, and a shift in values, but it will still happen.

Especially among the poorest and least educated. Ie, the women more likely to be presurred into having sex by the guys, and least able to support the kids that result.

It is only common sense to give them the ability to stop the pregnancy quickly before it becomes a fetus.

Sex belongs only in marriage between one man and one woman.

Says who?

My body certainly tells me that I should try and have sex with as many women as I see fit.

Let's reintroduce shame as a way to get people to think twice before engaging in immoral acts

Missplaced shame hasn't worked for the last couple of thousand years. But hey keep hitting your head against that stonewall, eventually you will pass out and be oblivious to it all.

Hmm... wait.

Lonesome Rhoades-2738573 - We need to focus on abstinence as safe-sex teachings have clearly not worked.

The bible-babble states in the south do exactly what you suggest and as a consequence have the highest teen pregnancy rate.

Let's reintroduce shame as a way to get people to think twice before engaging in immoral acts.

Fortunately society has evolved beyond your archaic and harmful concept of morality, and can deal more honestly with issues of human sexuality.

Abstinence until marriage is easy when one can expect to be married no later than 16.

We are the first culture to delay adulthood into a persons 20's. In our culture we are
expecting sexual sacrifices that were once expected only of clergy, certain royalty,
members of virginity cults and other special cases. Abstinence until marriage in a culture
where marriage is routinely delayed until a persons late 20's is not reasonable, practical or
even healthy.

Lonesome-

Safer-sex education is not widely practiced, but abstinence-only education is. It doesn't work. Regardless, sex outside of marriage is not rare and has never been rare. How many people do you know that were five month babies? I know of many, even from when shaming was more common.

. We need to focus on abstinence as safe-sex teachings have clearly not worked

Do you EVER research anything???

The states with the highest teen pregnancy rates are the ones that teach "Gawd and Abstinence"

State With Highest Teen Pregnancy Rate Slowly Moving Away From Abstinence-Only

By Tara Culp-Ressler on Aug 3, 2012 at 10:40 am

As Mississippi struggles with the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the country, a majority of school districts are doubling down on a abstinence-only instruction, largely ignoring a 2011 state law that requires Mississippi schools to teach some form of sex education. But a growing number are abandoning the failed approach and opting for small steps toward a more honest conversation about sexual health.

True that, William of Rites. I read a study several months ago in which teens who received abstinence only education (and some who took those silly little abstinence vows) were compared to teens who received comprehensive sex ed.

Age of first sexual activity: same in both groups. Number of sexual partners: same in both groups. Frequency of sexual activity: same in both groups. Number of teen pregnancies: statistically signficantly higher rates in the abstinence group.

Conclusion: abstinence only education has no effect on teen sexual activity. It does, however, increase the number of teen pregnancies.

I'm living proof that abstinance only education doesn't work. Back in the 70's my mom got no information from school, and her mom gave her the 'good girls don't do that' line. No internet, nothing in magazines, and even libraries would have made that kind of information hard to find, if they had anything at all.

So at 18, she got her information from friends, and ended up pregnant with me her first time. Kids will have sex no matter what. We need to give them information about preventing disease and pregnancy. You can teach your kids whatever morals you'd like, but withholding information about their own bodies and reproductive processes is a potential death sentence.

inmissouri,

Sorry, but I was in High School in the 70's. Abstinance only was NOT what was taught. Condoms were available as well as birth control pills. Her friends, like yours, knew better and she probably did as well.

However, I do agree with you in principle. Shame, abstinance, do not work.

We need to give them information about preventing disease and pregnancy. You can teach your kids whatever morals you'd like, but withholding information about their own bodies and reproductive processes is a potential death sentence.

They start in the 5th grade. It IS in magazines, on television, internet, etc. I simply do not agree with the ignorance thing. Especially today!!

I think abstinence should be discussed with your child, (in the hope that self-control may enter into his or her thinking; contrary to current popular opinion, the concept of self control is not a bad thing.) Birth control should also be discussed and obtained. But I think the abstinence discussion helps them to understand that becoming sexually active has consequences beyond a possible pregnancy, because there are psychological and social consequences, e.g. girls getting a 'rep' and being pressured because everybody knows they 'put out', guilt, social diseases, emotions they are not prepared to deal with, etc. Both facets of the discussion are equally valid, but definitely make the birth control available. As the saying goes, "Trust in God, but tie up your camel.'

Sex belongs only in marriage between one man and one woman.

And only for purposes of procreation, right?

Let's reintroduce shame as a way to get people to think twice before engaging in immoral acts.

Something like the shame that people should feel when they misrepresent the issue and claim abstinence is an effective remedy for unwanted pregnancy on a large scale?

ya that works...

TXHorseman- depends on where you went to school, and if you were in 'boy sex ed' or 'girl sex ed'. Just like today, there's quite a bit of variation state to state, and even within a state. And girls tended to get more of the 'about your period' speech than anything related to male/female interaction (even when I was in school). Add in my mom's catholic family, and teachings that birth control was a grave sin even if you could get up the nerve to go get it....

As for starting in 5th grade- that's when I got my first 'talk' from my mom- complete with one of those 'how your body works' pamphlets. I learned, in very basic biological terms, how babies were made. The birth control and disease prevention talks were later, but I knew a little more about how my body worked, and I knew I could go to my mom with any questions..

LOATHESOME (nope, I didn't mis-spell it)

We need to focus on abstinence as safe-sex teachings have clearly not worked

Of course you are ASSUMING that the pregnancies are from the "safel-sex" group.

Let's reintroduce shame as a way to get people to think twice before engaging in immoral acts.

Would I be correct in ASSUMING you are Catholic of fundamentalist? I realize that the use of shame is important in your culture. The rest of us use love, education and moral guidance.

FOOL.

The "shaming" is what psychopaths confess to when they have been caught murdering women. That's what the Green River Murder claimed and a few others. I think we have shown time and again that shaming it wrong, leads to numerous problems with child rearing and is detrimental to human kind.

I have no doubt this guy is right-wing. The question of what is in his closet (or whom?) remains.

How about we stop using the term "unwanted" and try "unplanned;" please.

How about re-introducing consequences for girls and boys who think they can get away with sex?

Sure, they are going to have sex whether they have birth control or not, so the progressives say, and that has a lot of truth to it.

My contention is that this society doesn't force the kids to pay for the consequences themselves, and that should be a huge factor in getting kids to excercise self control. If a kid knows he/she will be forced to pay every penny of child care and there is no 'rescue' from a lenient 'handout' government that slaps your wrist and then pays you for your own mistake, they would likely not have sex. I find it amazing that noone calls these women out who have children just to get the additional government money, and then they teach their daughters to do the same to keep the money rolliing in. That is fraud, big time. And, yes, they DO exist, LOTS of them. I and my social contacts have all known women who have fraudulently done this.

When I was young, that was one of the biggest driving factor to control myself, I could not pay for children as I had nothing, no job, no skills etc.

For all the men commenting on this that women should practice abstinence, should keep their legs crossed, should do this and should do that - you're all real friendly with Rosie DePalma and her five fun sisters, aren't you? You'd better be - it's a two way street. As someone else posted, keep your dick in your pants and those pants zipped, fellows, and make sure you get to the mailbox first so you can steal the latest Victoria's Secret catalog to entertain yourselves since you wouldn't THINK of having sex with one of those dirty, immoral, lying, slutty women, right? Right?? And if your mother/wife (if you can find one)/sister/daughter(if you're lucky enough to have one) gets raped and ends up pregnant and unwed - why, that filthy little tramp is on her own, right? Because you'd never, never, ever let her use Plan B to possibly stop her from having to give birth to a baby she doesn't want, it was all her fault, after all, and she deserves to be punished. After all, she should have kept her legs crossed, she should have known that nice boy from down the street was nothing but a scumbag who pinned her down and used her, then threatened her and her family! It's all her fault - not his, he's just a saint!

Remember the term : Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Well, you didn't like it very much when women turned the tables with: Why buy the pig just to get a little (emphasis on little) sausage?

One thing I keep seeing repeated here is "why should I pay for HER birth control?" Don't - just pay for the brat you create because you can't keep it in your pants. Fair deal. Oh, and if she doesn't want to be saddled with it after birth, YOU take it home, give up your life and raise it.

Of course, the funniest thing of all is they want to make birth control OTC - that means NO ONE but the person using it will pay for it - just like buying aspirin, cough drops, heartburn or allergy medication. It won't go through insurance, so you WON'T be paying for it! When's the last time you bought your Hall's cough drops as a prescription? What? Never? Why, then, who paid for them? Oh, YOU did. Just like any woman who wants to buy BC, should it be made OTC, would pay for that herself, and the price of the pills would drop drastically, instead of skyrocketing through the roof at over $100.00 for a single 30 day supply. Yes - I did my research, I checked how much they can cost. It's frikking insane! But just let that woman suggest a man use a condom and watch how his face changes - most hate them and the mess, and talk about some whining!! "It doesn't feel good, honey." Really? Then go bareback in your own hand -like I said, make friends with Rosie DePalma, because if all women do as you suggest, you ain't getting any.

Oh - and if she gets a prescription and doesn't have insurance to cover it, the pharmacist won't release the meds to her until she pays for it out of pocket - not in my State.

Well, Phil, things are different now from when we were young and some even in our time were sexually active despite the consequences. One of my sisters told me that she never thought about getting pregnant; she was just having fun. We were brought up in a religious family and were taught abstinence and personal responsibility. I bought into it; she didn't. Her three children were raised, two by a grandmother and one by me and my husband. There were and are also babies neglected and abused because people expect teen parents to take the consequences. While I am all for people taking the consequences of their actions, this is an execption. These little consequences are living breathing human beings, and it is they who suffer the consequences of being born to teens who are too young to parent. Since short of chaining your teens to a an iron post in the house, there is no way to keep them from breeding, it is best to talk to them about abstinence, self-control, and the negative consequences of early sexual activity, but also about using birth control if they indulge in it. That, too, is taking responsibility.

Let's reintroduce shame as a way to get people to think twice before engaging in immoral acts.

Yes lets create a new group of sexually repressed rapists, and child molesters. Because we know that worked so well in the past.

most (if not all) moms on 16 and preg and teen mom are in the midwest.... honestly all these teen mom shows are sad and mind-numbing but it really illuminates the problems in our society. most of these girls are from single parent households, daughters of teen moms, and have other family problems. They are also most often (like 90% of the time) left alone and baby daddies take no responsibility (well, these baby daddies are also babies themselves), but teen pregnancy is a vicious cycle. Once it starts, its statistically unfavorable that one will break out of it, but it is possible. Plan B is not the answer, either.

Kim,

Thank you for that in depth study of MTV reality shows. Now there's a credible source of information. And the availability of Plan B CAN be the answer to many of these situations, seeing as it prevents pregnancy.

Some Guy:

So your body tells you to have sex with as many women as you see fit. What does your brain tell you? Does your body control your brain, or does your brain control your body? This is what gets my goat, the main thing that distiguishes us from others is Free will and the ability to make sound decisions and choices. It seems like more and more each day I read or hear comments just like yours that want to release yourself from all responsibility for your actions and choices.

It'sCalled,

Well, in adolescents, the frontal lobe which controls our impulses (our brain having control over our body) is not yet fully developed, however the sexual drive is. So those "responsible" decisions are considerably harder in regards to biological sex drives. Besides, they CAN make responsible decisions afterwards by taking this pill, if we make it available to them. THAT is also responsibility.

Sarah

having raised 5 kids I fully understand your point. And I think that I have demonstrated in previous comments that I am fairly open minded and understanding of the pressures and temptations in youth. Heck I wasn't nor am I now perfect and I am fully aware of how hard it is to be a parent but atleast I try, (my grandfather told me to always strive for perfection, and you will atleast achieve mediocracy, which is better than failure). Some on here have accused me of being self rightous, which couldn't be further from the truth, I believe everyone has in them the ability and the resources to be good parents and raise children capable of making sound decisions, that too is a matter of choice. Now lastly I will say that I am not totally against this product, I just don't agree with having a "standing" prescription, or making it over the counter, I feel it should be a case by case basis and not without parental consent for those under age. It might just help some parents to become more involved by opening up a discussion that some might have been avoiding. I feel if we spent as much energy and effort in encouraging and enabling good parenting as we do looking for a bandaid that it wouldn't be as big of an issue and I would like to see an even greater effort in this area (as my oldest daughter does as a teen pregnancy and infant mortality counselor) . I fully believe that the majority of parents want the best for their kids and don't want them to have to worry about these issues in the first place. I know, it's not a perfect world but atleast we could try alittle harder then we might just acieve mediocracy which is a far cry better than where we are at now IMO.

It'sCalled,

The problem I have with your position, is that it's putting an awful lot of "money" on might. Yes, parents MIGHT teach their children better. They MIGHT become more involved. The kids MIGHT make better choices.

That MIGHT all happen and they MIGHT still end up pregnant. Making it available, does not necessarily mean that usage of this pill will go through the roof. It MIGHT, but it also MIGHT not. It also MIGHT stop some unwanted pregnancies that would either end up as abortions or economic hardships on the mother.

Nor is it an either/or situation. You can lead us in the direction you want in terms of parenting skills and better decision making. We can ALSO make this pill available.

Sarah

with sincere respect, I realize that there alot of mights, on both sides as you pointed out, and I did not say that the pill should not be made available. I am just stating that I would like to see an equal effort put forth in enabling and empowering parents to do their job properly. Then it MIGHT just make this a non-issue. I think alot of the frustration from people who are more traditionalist is the fact that as a society we seem to find it too easy to throw our hands in the air and give up because it's easier to let someone else deal with the problem. Is that really too much to ask? Equal effort?

The attitude is not that young women should be having sex, but that in reality(not is some dream world), young men and women have sex. This is the truth. A young woman should not be sentenced to a worse life simply because she had sex.

I agree 100% with Lonesome Rhoades-2738573.

Maybe you should read all the replies to Lonesome before you jump on that bandwagon.

zieglo87

A young woman should not be sentenced to a worse life simply because she had sex.

The separation of action from consequence/responsibility is the slippery slope that has led to the state of our nation today.

This country has a severe lack or morality.

The separation of action from consequence/responsibility is the slippery slope that has led to the state of our nation today.

And who gets to define morality? You?

Severed Head (fitting),

If someone's actions cause harm on someone else just to make them feel better, would you not think this to be immoral? Why should someone else pay for these women to be having sex and then pay for the kid if they dont use protection. Im tired of paying for welfare rats who use their children as pay days.

And yes, the men are responsible too, but you dont see a majority of the money going to men like you do the welfare rats.

I'm 70 years old and when I was a kid a girls reputation was a big deal. Did that keep kids from having sex?? No way! Kids have been experimenting with their sexuality for eons. "Good" kids. All the talk of abstinence and pledges go out the window when the homones kick in and they decide they are in "love". Perhaps kids of this era don't bother with the love thing, they are better educated by the movies these days. Anything that can prevent an unwanted child being born to another child is a good thing. I heard the same arguements I'm reading here when the birth control pill came into use..the same! Those of you who think they can control this with teaching abstinence should look into your heart, you really know better. Human nature is remarkably constant from generation to generaton. Thank goodness for scientific progress, perhaps we can cut the teenage birth rate along with the abortion rate by making this medication easily available.

@ Mr. Burns: For the last time you all do not have to pay for a woman's over the counter birth control. The article clearly states that this about MAKING EMERGENCY CONTRACEPTIVES over the counter for WOMEN of ALL AGES. OVER THE COUNTER DOES NOT EQUAL FREE. Tylenol is NOT FREE. Nor is Advil. Nor Aleve. Nor is Zantac 75. Nor is Claritian. Nor is Zyrtec. All of these are available over the counter and if you want them you have to pay for them. It is the same situation here. PLEASE READ the article. I CANNOT STRESS this enough. READ. How hard is this to do? I mean DAMN. Put your brain and your eyes to use and READ. PLEASE just READ the article.

Elaine--and also Lonesome Rhoades--funny, but the 'shame' part, so """effective""" in the past, ONLY visited itself on the WOMAN (or girl!). NOT on the man. And unless Rhoades was / is really ugly or really repressed, I highly doubt that he NEVER ONCE had sex outside the bonds of holy matrimony.

And the old "one man/one woman" thing that keeps being thrust out there? EVER notice how many of the folks advocating that are on their 2nd or third spouse? Having taken a vow before God and congregation, so many seem to feel that they don't have to be 'held to that' but some poor teenager should be stuck with HER bad decision for life?

sweetcancer,

You havent read anything on Obamacare have you dear?

Im all for women getting whatever they want so long as they pay for it. If these two things were seperate, it would be a different matter, but Obamacare makes me pay for other people's birth control. So yeah.

@MrBurns if you are paying for insurance now, you are likely paying for someone else's birth control. Most insurance plans already cover birth control.

How about if we are all for men getting what they want as long as they pay for it? You willing to go that far?

""This country has a severe lack or morality.

The separation of action from consequence/responsibility is the

slippery slope that has led to the state of our nation today."

And who gets to define morality? You?""

Severed Head in a Jar, I have a simular question for you.

And who gets to define who pays for someone else's sex act, You?

MrBurns

Severed Head (fitting),

If someone's actions cause harm on someone else just to make them feel better, would you not think this to be immoral?

So, by your own words then males should be strung up since there could be "harm"aka, a pregnancy caused to someone else , without males such as yourself creating said pregnancies there would be no probelm right. I'm down with that Mr. burns, I agree with you, all men who are involved in an "oops' pregnancy should be made to pay deary and have loads of public shame heaped upon them. oops, what's that, you didn't think that one through? Well I'm not surprised, you are after all a MR., and we all know where your brain is!

eh, as a quote I saw

"It makes more sense to take the bullets out of a gun then to shoot a bulletproof vest."

aka, male birth control, please. I'm sick and tired of dead beat dads. Its all about girls keeping their legs closed but it TAKES SPERM TO FERTILIZE AN EGG!!!!1111 Fak! How are people soooooo stupid?????

"A young woman should not be sentenced to a worse life simply because she had sex."

"The separation of action from consequence/responsibility is the slippery slope that has led to the state of our nation today."

m1978,

while you may be correct, unfortunately when a young woman having unprotected sex becomes a mother, the child she bears should not be sentenced to a life of want and possible neglect and abuse. That baby, more than anyone else pays the consequences. I have to be honest. If kids are becoming sexually active, I have less concern for them than the poor babies that will be the ones who suffer. There is no way I know of to keep teenagers from having sex. It is better to provide them as much as possible with the means to prevent babies they are not prepared to love and raise.

birth control pills do not prevent stds. Why are we giving them a false sense of security? If you cannot control yourself, condoms are the best bet. I certainly don't want my kids to come home with HIV or herpes! Hormonally, most kids can hold out until age 16, but truthfully, birth control can mess with your libido, so maybe it isn't such a bad idea.

discourage-

There is no life before conception, which birth control and the morning-after pill prevent.

I hate to tell you, discouraged, but remaining clothed does not prevent pregnancy.

I agree with Elaine Connelly & Lonesome Rhodes. Furthermore, I think parents & schools should consider having their children/students read "Theology of the Body." We should be teaching our children to respect themselves and others instead of expecting or encouraging them to behave like animals. In addition, frequently there are many side effects (not always immediate) of taking any kind of pill, using a contraceptive device, or having an abortion. And then, there is also the possibilty that someone may use this type of pill to murder an unborn child. For ex: the girlfriend is pregnant and the boyfriend doesn't want her to have the baby, all he has to do is slip her that pill.

PRO LIFE: Go read the facts, the Plan B pill will NOT abort a 'pregnancy in progress' That's a totally different thing.....

and I wonder how a "boyfriend" would get access to an abortion medication.

You just make darn sure you educate the girls in your family according to your beliefs.....and prepare yourself for the possibility that she may come home pregnant.

discouraged--ever hear about RAPE?

And while he disgusts me, and I'm ashamed to be from a state that spawned the ignorant candidate for Senator who said there are different "kinds of rape'', there ARE. But a girl can get JUST as pregnant from a guy with a knife as she can from one who has rohypnol, as she can from one who just pressures her into 'proving her love'.

Prolife from Illinois--funny how folks like you like to trumpet the 'side effects' from abortions or the pill but CONVENIENTLY forget that there are ALSO many 'side effects' from BEING pregnant (and not JUST physical, but also the ostracism, shame etc.) from giving birth, (and you DO, of course, know that even in the 'wonderful' United States, women STILL die in childbirth?) and more specifically, from HAVING an unwanted child. (even giving that child up for adoption carries guilt.)

And sweetie--even having an abortion is NOT murder in this country. Ask the Supreme Court.

And it isn't in my church either. And our glorious constitution guarantees you the right to worship however you desire, but it SPECIFICALLY prohibits you from forcing me or anyone else to worship the same way you do.

And the emergency contraception does NOT 'end' a pregnancy that some schub finds out about months later and slips his girl a pil.

Him beating the CRAP out of her because he doesn't want to be stuck with paying child support might tho. Is that what you'd prefer?

Please, really? Unplanned pregnancy has been happening as long as people have been having sex. How about in the 40s and the 50s, the so called "moral" decades? Plenty of women had unplanned pregnancies and those babies ended up in orphanages and adoption agencies. This is not a new problem. And, I beg to differ, its not a life the day after or even a week after, its a cluster of cells. There is only one person who is able to make the decision, no one else and that is the women.

Seriously Pro Life from IL???????????? "And then, there is also the possibilty that someone may use this type of pill to murder an unborn child. For ex: the girlfriend is pregnant and the boyfriend doesn't want her to have the baby, all he has to do is slip her that pill." If the girl is already pregnant, the morning after pill will have not cause an abortion. My God, some people that comment on these sections are in need of a better education and reading skills. Try reading something other than the Bible and maybe you'd know something. Some of the backwoods, idiotic thinking on here astounds me. Kids will be kids, they will have sex if they want, no matter how much you drill into their heads that they shouldn't. As they say, @!$%# happens even to good girls and boys. If the pills are over the counter, then they will purchasing them just like we purchase cold meds, Tylenol or any other type of drug. They have to purchase the morning after pill, which I believe is kept behind the counter right now. Wouldn't it be more responsible to allow the kids to buy this rather than just teaching them it's wrong to have sex before marriage? I don't see this as a permission to have all the sex you want, I see this as responsible parenting. Give the kids time to grow up, get a life and a means of supporting a child before they have one.

just like they were so arrogantly wrong about recommending against circumcision

Who can resist 10% off??

@WilliamOfRites

Who can resist 10% off??

Thanks, you owe me a new keyboard! :D

I had a relative almost bleed out from the procedure. It's not all that funny.

relax k...just because you know someone who on the off chance had this simple procedure get screwed up doesn't mean the rest of the world can't laugh about it. Shut your mouth

Ronnie--sorry, but PREGNANCY also has 'side effects.' Do you KNOW what is the biggest cause of death among pregnant women?

Getting the life battered out of her by the POS who knocked her up.

but hey--lets not forget the other possible consequences of pregnancy. I personally spent nearly 7 months on bed rest with my second, and a friend had seizures from the same condition (toxemia).

A dear friend had post partum depression so bad with both her babies they had to have someone stay with them and watch her to keep her from killing herself. Another acquantance refused Chemo for Breast cancer because the doctors wanted to abort her FOURTH baby to do the Chemo/radiation, and three weeks after the baby was born, she DIED of the cancer.

And hey, there are bad effects from the little blue PILL (Viagra, et al) and I SURE don't see any guys advocating banning THAT!

Momaid- gotta agree with you on side effects- my side effects for both my pregnancies- major surgery. I had the joy of having my blood pressure creep up uncontrollably at the end of each, and got to have a failed induction with one, and csections with both (my OB didn't want to induce with the second since I'd previously had a csection).

but the simple fact is that we are talking about a minor and in this country parents do have a right and a need to know about the medical concerns of their dependents.

I hate to say this, but you aren't entirely accurate with that statement. If my kids do not want the dr. to share something with me, she can't under certain circumstances.

Hipa

when state law does not require
consent of a parent/personal representative before a minor can obtain a
particular form of treatment (e.g., HIV testing, mental health services), the
minor controls information associated with that treatment;

Amen!

But we do have the money to pay for immorality?

The thing is we aren't talking about just women. We are talking about 13 year old girls whose only sources of information are their friends and wikipedia. I'm grown, I understand that the right way is 1 Lortab every 4 to 6 hours, do you think we should put those over the counter for teenagers too? If only adults were the ones buying these medications I would be all for it, but if it was my kid I would want a way to make sure that she had to talk to me to get these kinds of medications.

But we do have the money to pay for immorality?

So, CWater, you've decided it's your right, duty, and responsibility to define morality for everyone?

CWater

But we do have the money to pay for immorality?

I WOULD GLADLY EXCHANGE THE TAX DOLLARS I ALREADY CONTRIBUTE TO WELFARE PROGRAMS FOR PEOPLE CONTINUING TO HAVE CHILDREN THEY CANNOT AFFORD WITH PAYING FOR BIRTH CONTROL UPFRONT. The latter is much, much cheaper!

BJ--the PROBLEM with your solution (of banning the sale of emergency contraceptives to those under, say, 18) is that many young girls are actually AFRAID of the 'person of responsibility' who YOU would demand she go to.

In 1971, I had a long deep talk with my father, and he said "you DO know that if you ever got pregnant, you could come to me and I would support you in whatever decision you might make, be it to have an abortion, keep the baby, or give it up for adoption.

And my reply? ONLY if he would NEVER tell my mother. I was both PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY afraid of her.

Now, I PERSONALLY was lucky enough to have (a) never been faced with that choice, and (b) had at least ONE supportive parent.

Sadly, for MANY vulnerable young girls, the situation is NOT the same.

So your 'system', to me, gets a huge "fail" from me, because it leaves vulnerable the most vulnerable--ie those who do NOT have the ability to go to someone for HELP, not judgement.

CWater - But we do have the money to pay for immorality?

Sounds like you're a member of the American Taliban who thinks that your silly sharia laws should be enforced by our secular government.

Maybe you should read the 1st Amendment sometime? Your concept of morality isn't the government's concern.

Also, the young woman and her insurance are the ones paying for her prescription, not some Christofascist like you.

MOmaid:

If you look at the tone of many of our "moral" contributors here, you get bet your bippy that their children will not go to them for help.

Something tells me if CW had a little taste of the "immorality" aka sex, he/she so rails against, he/she wouldn't be so anal retentive and sexually frustrated to the point of constant anger as an adult. He/she is like the kids you deprive of sweets that gorge behind your back and ends up an obese lonely adult.

This is all fine and well IF the woman/young woman wants to carry the child full term for adoption purposes. It should be the woman's decision to make. No woman should be forced to continue a pregnancy that she does not want just to make a baby available for someone else to adopt. What about the male responsibility part of this as well. The woman has to carry this child for nine months -- while the male runs off and continues with his fun.

MB-

As someone who lived through a pregnancy, then you obviously remember the changes to your body as well. Pregnancy is living with a parasite for nine months that affects many things in your daily life. A pregnant woman cannot work full-time at a minimum wage job for the entire pregnancy. If a person cannot afford a baby, why do you imagine that they can afford a pregnancy?

If I see one more person seeking to remove choice from women mention adoption, I will puke. There are one quarter million kids in this country looking for adoptive homes at this moment in time. Deal with those kids, or STFU about adoption as a solution.

Sorry MB, while they may be your little girls, their bodies are not yours to control.

And what do you suggest for women who already have children? Is adoption really an option for them? What kind of message does it send to your children that you gave up their little brother? "Mommy might get rid of you too if the whim strikes her". That and the adoption system isn't perfect. I was reading about the experiences of women who gave children up for adoption, and not a one mentioned any sort of support structure or counseling of which you speak. More than one said that they became pregnant again and chose abortion rather than a second adoption as they had received no support and were severely depressed/suicidal/guilt-stricken/etc even though they had not wanted the first child-that bond still forms during the nine months of pregnancy. The women compared abortion to the dead of a family member-at least you know what happened-and adoption to your child being kidnapped on the way home from school and never found-there's always that wondering of if they are suffering/are alive/well-treated. We need to fix these issues (not to mention the horror stories that we read about sometimes from foster home) and encourage more open adoptions so that adoption becomes a more attractive option.

I do agree that I have some concerns about children under 18 obtaining medicine without parental consent-it's a medicine like any other, and if parental consent is required for others, why would it not be for this?

Alright, it's so much better for a kid to find out that mommy killed their little brother or sister than it is for them to find out that mommy sent that little brother or sister to live in a home that could take care of them when mommy could not. LET US KILL THEM INSTEAD OF SENDING THEM AWAY!!!

Could also be the same parent who got the kid pregnant.

After my hysterectomy, my husband and I looked to adoption. Even through a public organization, it is an incredibly expensive and extensive process. Having kids is expensive for sure, but an average adoption requires the money upfront, not to mention the process of the home study, references, etc. A lot of non-profit adoption agencies are faith-based with exclusionary rules for those who don't practice or who are not of the same religion. Even with the adoption credit, it's still a lot of money to have upfront in place, prior to beginning the process, without any guarantee that the adoption will be successful.

In other words, the adoption system is in dire need of reform. At the private level, it is no better than paying to get a child. At the public level, you have to deal with mysterious family records, an unknown substance abuse history and all other sorts of problems.

So to anyone who offers adoption as an option, I say BS... until adoption processes are made more transparent, less expensive and less cumbersome, it should not be part of the equation.

Regardless, a woman should choose for herself whether to have a child and/or carry the child to term, regardless of or in spite of adoption.

In my state, once my daughter turned 16, I was no longer privy to the conversations she had with her pediatrician

Overbearing much? Cut the cord!

BJ-how would they find out about the abortion? Unless mommy tells them, they would never know she was even pregnant.

Also, LaDolce, very well said. I agree completely

happy42xxx

Why do we have to support the children anyway? It does not have to be either or - that is a weak brained individual's thought process...if the entitlements are not there then the women would think twice about sleeping with a guy...sorry to break it to you ladies but you are the ones with the power and thus the responsibility - and if they do then there are plenty of families waiting to adopt.

I'm so sick of people saying that there are plenty of available adoptive families. SORRY TO BREAK IT TO YOU.... THERE ARE OVER a HALF MILLION children legally freed for adoption in the US. And yet, so many American families are willing to fork over big bucks for foreign adoptions.

Before you challenge me, yes, we have adopted, twice. So Happy, what about you?? Have you adopted any of those unwanted children???

It's interesting to read some of the comments here from people who seem to believe that pregnancy is intended to be punishment for having sex.

Excellent observation.

So many disturbed people, so little time to treat them.

That is a really stupid comment. And what if MOM is the doctor, not DAD?

wryview--yup--especially given the fact that many recent studies show that in many families now, the woman is not only better educated than the man, but is also the primary bread winner!

this really wasn't a problem when I was in school

When did you go to school because I went in the 70s and this issue was around then. I remember my parents talking about homes for unwed mothers when they were kids so just how old are you?

this really wasn't a problem when I was in school - there were some 'nasty girls' but they seem to all have died off from sexual diseases

Really???

cause he wants me to hav his babE and he culd B such a gud dadE'

If you think you are disguising your blatant racism think again.

this really wasn't a problem when I was in school

My husband was born in 76. His mother was 15 and from a good family. Soon as she was pregnant she was shipped off to a home for unwed mothers where she had him. After his birth he was sent to his grandparents for raising until he was 10 then he was told about his "young shamed mother.." When she finally had the nerve to go get her baby.

This story and the many like it makes me think maybe people thought it wasn't around when really all of these girls were getting shipped off to have babies so the family or the parents wouldn't look bad..

PatseChi--sorry, but even my MOM, who went to high school in the 1930s, used to quote the old 'truism':

The bad girls have all the fun, and the nice girls have all the babies.

And she was NOT discussing married women.

Just because you have sex with someone doesn't mean you want or should have to reproduce with them.

A biology course may be in order as the purpose of sex is in fact reproduction. Given that fact, it seems that to have sex with someone is to make a choice to have a child with them. Yes, sex may be fun, but that does not alleviate one from the responsibility of the power of the act (the creation of life), or the consequences that follow it.

you don't get it....so let me explain: you are young, healthy and full of energy, you're out having a good time and hook up with someone who you're attracted to (for whatever reason)....you have hot sex with this person for one night or a couple of weeks and then it fizzles out...its over. In no way do you want to marry, live with or procreate with this person. Sex should not be a punishable act and a baby should not be that punishment.

m1978: you never just wanted to f**k someone..hot and heavy then send them home.....????

74% of all black babies, today, are born out of wedlock.55% of all latino babies are born out of wedlock.Guess who pays until all these kids reach 18.Food,shelter,toys,utilities,schooling(with more food)! We,the public do.If abstinence was an effective problem as it was a 100 years ago ,maybe,like then,there would not be such a vast caldrun on unborn babies and unhealthy families who have as fathers,their social worker or the federal government.Little girls who have a child while they are still children deprive the children as well of themselves of a productive life.I realize that is a generalization,but in most part,it is correct.They know there are no consequences to having a child out of wedlock,they can immediately get state and federal entitlements to take care of it.It doesn't even matter if the mother is here illegally.

@M1978

So you're saying that the only reason anyone should have sex is for procreation?

sheplover--and to make matters even worse, I saw a BIO on Mother Theresa on the history channel, some years ago, and she was in consideration for canonization for her work tending to poor AIDS victims in the worst slums of Calcutta India.

I was SO admiring of her devotion and unselfishness, RIGHT UP until she said that she taught her patients that it was A MORTAL sin to even ABSTAIN from having sex if your reason was to NOT give birth to another AIDS infected baby that you would DIE before it could even talk.

A mortal SIN????? to abstain from creating another poverty stricken child you cannot HOPE to care for or raise? A child that will in all likelihood live a short miserable life before dying from the disease it would be BORN with as a result of you having sex?

Wow. Let me find a more "Christian" religion.

M-1978--so...if the ONLY reason for having sex is procreation, then you did not have sex while pregnant (or while your wife was, cannot tell your sex by name)?

How about after menopause? Not trying to get pg, so no sex, right? and wow--look at how much we can save on VIAGRA for old fogies whose wives would no doubt be VERY relieved?

Like it or not, MOST people have sex because it FEELS good.

@MOmaid, @Severed

Your right, most people do have sex because it feels good, and there is nothing wrong with that, I’m a big fan. However, that doesn't change the fact that the PURPOSE of sex is procreation, and given that fact, one must be prepared to accept the consequences of being sexually active. The power to create life is a responsibility, and one that most seem to want to ignore when it's convenient for them.

We all know that even with contraceptives pregnancies happen, and if you are making the choice to be sexually active, you are making a choice to take responsibility for that consequence.

m1978

It's fair to say that the sex drive originates from the need the biological imperative to procreate. However, to that it is the "purpose" of sex is to claim to know the mind of God (assuming there is one who has some plan).

Here's another "purpose" for sex... To keep the couple together through a pleasurable interaction so that their offspring have a better chance of success through the benefits of nurturing by the couple.

Usually people do not make choices based on careful deliberation. Consider your child getting on a skateboard. That represents a substantial risk of injury, but you ignore it.

What the "moral" folks seem to fail to understand is that their opinions about the importance of the consequences of sex are just a disguise. There real problem is the notion that has been drummed into them that sex (and in fact all forms of pleasure) are inherently evil or have specific purposes which can be abused.

Gregorovich - Imagine that... Talking openly with your child worked! Not preaching to never ever "do it" but realizing it most likely will happen and to be prepared.

Kudos to you this was the most logical thing I read.

greg-

It's wonderful that you and your child were able to talk, but this is not the case for most moms and dads. Imagine if you had preached abstinence only to your child. The dialogue would have been gone. This is a major part of the problem.

Greg- good for you! That's the kind of communication I had with my mom, and she got me and my sisters on the pill as soon as we even started considering having sex. We didn't start having sex any earlier than others our age, and we all were married (for more than 9 months) before having kids. I have two little boys, and they'll be getting a lot of talks as they get older. I just hope they come out with more options for guys before they get to that age (although they'll definately be told to use a condom no matter what she says she's on).

Thanks for all of your kind words. I will say that I also gave her some practical advise about kissing boys. This sounds weird, but here it goes.

I told her that when she's sitting with a boy and they are kissing and he brings his hand up to try and reach second base, to lovingly take his hand in mid air and bring it back down to her other hand and continue holding his hand. This gives him the message that you like what you are doing, but this is it. I am female, despite my screen name, and I told her that it worked for me and that it could work for her!

I told her that once you get too far it is very difficult (not impossible) to pull back, but that this is a good point to keep things from going too far.

So glad we voted that idiot down. Sad that he got a double-digit percent of votes though...

LOL - that's the best of the day, Joe!

I am not sure what to think about the three of you............... but what is going through my mind is NOT good!

You don't catch the preggers from "butt poundin".

Jerry - sorry, but men can't get pregnant... and I think the term you're looking for is "pegging"...

Just as long as I can 'nail 'em' without worryin about rugrats is all I care!

You are a sick individual. I am no feminist, but most guys not all guys are like you disgusting and vulgar with having sex with any under age girls as if it is a trophy or some @!$%#. Then when or if she gets pregnant you abandon them, you want the fun without the consequences. YOU ACT LIKE CHILDREN GROW UP and TAKE SOME @!$%#IN RESPONSIBILITY. I am not against people taking pills that is their choice, but really guys and girls at such a young age 13-17 you shouldn't be having sex and those that are stop doing it. Think of the consequences if you don't get pregnant THINK OF STDS. I agree about rape that they should have pills available to them and other young girls. Birth control is not 100% to be able to stop a girl from getting pregnant. I hope you never have children JOE you aren't fit to. You too Jerry. tHAT IS MY opinion so yeah leave it at that.

Look Jenell...its simply a fact of life that once the age to consent is reached a 'roll in the hay' usually starts up...and believe you me I want as many 'rolls in the hay' that i can get my hands on...consensual of course...but, hey...as I stated...NO RUGRATS...that would get in the way of future 'rolls in the hay' and we can't have that!

That's exactly why females are infuriated reading some of the above comments of the guys calling the girls whores if they have sex meanwhile there's "boys" out there like Jerry and Joe who are the biggest Dbag whores out there! Seriously, you two are @$$holes.

that's exactly why females are infuriated reading some of the above comments

lol, jerry is most likely an impotent dreamer at best with more warts/herpes/stds than actual "rolls in the hay", well actually that is the not so funny part and why girls/women all need to raise their standards. i can;t imagine there are that many hard up loser chics willing to be with guys so unintelligent and ugly.

If dear old mom and dad are giving them that kind of attention, we have a whole other issue to discuss.

I notice you didn't say anything about the boys... there have also been several studies mentioned above that show "abstinence" teaching does not keep them from being "morally corrupt". Republicans are just as likely to be slutty as democrats. Only difference is we nut case liberals actually take care of each other. You are the same people that will preach and preach but when it happens to YOUR daughter you will quietly pay for an abortion without her consent to keep the family shame from becoming public. In the words of your own people, "I will pray for you"

Yeah I agree. SOCIETY has screwed up our future children. Maybe we should do what China did two child household max. Have the teenage father of the child fined and put in instead of Debtors prison, put them in Jackass prison.

Hahahahaha.....good luck with that.

Yeah I agree. SOCIETY has screwed up our future children.

I'm more worried about the current "adults" than any future children. Intelligence levels go up with each generation, but it's going to be several years before some of these morons die out.

Yeah, it worked so well for Bristol Palin.

RAPendergast - Being accountable for your actions? There is no concept of that on the liberal left.