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Subscribe to RSSUpdated at 5:50 p.m. ET, Nov. 9: There’s nothing like a deadline to focus the mind and states have a good one coming up next week – they have to decide if they're going to run their own health insurance marketplaces, called exchanges, or have the federal government do it for them.
But they got a little break late Friday -- if they do decide to run their own exchanges, they'll have until December 14 to submit their plans to the federal government.
It’s a big decision and a big responsibility. One of the main goals of the 2010 health reform law is to get more people covered by health insurance, so they can get medical care when they need it, and so they get care earlier, before easy-to-treat conditions like high blood pressure can cause expensive strokes or heart attacks.
The exchanges – think Travelocity for health insurance – will provide a mechanism for more people to buy insurance. They’re supposed to provide a side-by-side comparison on price, what’s covered and how much you might have to pay out of pocket for a doctor’s visit. They’ll also be a route for people to get a little extra cash from the federal government to buy insurance; the health care law provides for a generous federal subsidy for many, if not most, buyers.
The states had two good excuses this year to procrastinate on exchanges. First of all, there were three major challenges to the law that went all the way to the Supreme Court. Many governors and state legislators were gambling that the Supreme Court would declare the law unconstitutional. It didn’t. Now the Nov. 16 deadline looms.
“This deadline is smoking the states out,” says Dan Mendelson of consultants Avalere Health.
But Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius softened the deadline a bit late on Friday. "The deadline for a Declaration letter for a State-based exchange remains Friday, November 16, 2012," she wrote in a letter to governors. "However, today, in order to continue to provide you with appropriate technical support if you are pursuing a State-based exchange, HHS is extending the deadline for State-based Exchange Blueprint application submissions to Friday, December 14, 2012."
When it ruled in June, the Supreme Court said states could decide whether to offer Medicaid – the state-federal health insurance plan for the low-income – to more people. But the rest of the law stood, including the exchanges requirement. Still, there was another possible way out – the election.
Republicans promised that they’d repeal the entire health reform law if they won in this week’s election. Now that Mitt Romney has lost to President Barack Obama and the Democrats have kept their control of the Senate, any chance of killing the Affordable Care Act is now dead.
"Obamacare is the law of the land," House Speaker John Boehner said in an interview with ABC News on Thursday.
So far, only 13 states and Washington, D.C. have said they’ll build a health insurance exchange. Eight have said they absolutely will not, and 25 states have been sitting on the fence, says Kelly Barnes, U.S. health industries leader at PricewaterhouseCoopers.
"My administration will not partner with the federal government to create a state-federal partnership insurance exchange because we will not benefit from it and implementing it could cost Kansas taxpayers millions of dollars," Kansas Governor Sam Brownback said in a statement Thursday.
Some groups are also urging governors to defy HHS. “States can and do have the power to reject federal attempts to compel their action. Governors should use that power to tell the federal government 'no'," Nicole Kaeding of the group Americans for Prosperity said in a letter sent Friday. “By creating an exchange, states will serve as de-facto administrators of the federal government implementing its rules, regulations, and mandates.”
States that don't set up their exchanges will have to submit to what the federal government does for them.
Avalere predicts 20 states will be ready to run their own exchanges when the bulk of the health reform law takes effect on Jan. 1, 2014. “The consumer will have access to an exchange by 2014,” Mendelson said. “One way or another, this administration has to make sure that everyone who wants to purchase insurance can.”
To make sure that people don't wait until they are sick to buy health insurance, the 2010 health reform law provides for fines on a sliding scale for people who don't buy. And people who want to switch from their employer's insurance can.
States may have been hoping to escape the looming responsibility, but that doesn’t mean they have been doing nothing. “I think there are more contingency plans out there than probably people have declared,” Barnes said. “A state like California, that has been planning all along, will have a higher level of organization.”
Waiting on the rules
Some Republican governors have done a fair bit of planning, including Bob McDonnell of Virginia and New Jersey’s Chris Christie. But many want the Health and Human Services Department to give them the rules for the exchanges, and to spell out what a federally run exchange would look like.
That would help them choose. Many have also asked if they can do a hybrid, with the state running part and the federal government running part of the exchange.
The federal government hasn’t published those rules. They are currently awaiting approval at the Office of Management and Budget. "We intend to issue further guidance to assist you in the very near future," Sebelius wrote the governors."This administration is committed to providing significant flexibility for building a marketplace that best meets your state's needs," Sebelius added.
“It’s driving the insurance companies crazy to not have any clarity about what they need to be offering in the exchanges,” Mendelson said. “Having said that, when push comes to shove, the insurers want to be offering products in the exchanges. They will rise to the challenge.” After all, the exchanges could mean more than 20 million new customers for insurance companies.
Right now, about 48 million Americans are going without health insurance, according to the Census Bureau. That’s more than 15 percent of the population.
About 55 percent of Americans are covered through an employer; 31 percent have a public insurance plan such as Medicare or Medicaid, and 10 percent buy their own health insurance.
23 million likely will get insurance through exchanges
The Congressional Budget Office predicts that 23 million people who don’t have health insurance now will get it on one of the exchanges. More than 18 million of them will qualify for a federal subsidy averaging $6,000 a year per person. People earning up to four times the federal poverty level can get a subsidy: that’s an income of $92,000 a year for a family of four.
But it’s going to be confusing, especially for people who have never had to wrangle with an employer’s open enrollment process before. “If you have had employer-sponsored insurance, at least you are familiar with the terms,” said Barnes. “But there is also a big tranche of buyers who have never had access to insurance before. It’s a less sophisticated consumer.”
Many people will go for bare-bones coverage, Barnes predicts. “Price is going to be the first selector in this round,” she said. “When all else fails, you buy on price.”
Some people who now have employer-covered insurance are doing that anyway. There’s a clear trend for employers to offer less, and to require their employees to pay a bigger share of their health insurance coverage. “It is definitely true that employers are paying for less and less,” Mendelson says.
“They are increasing co-pays and making it expensive for patients to use medical services. But even with those trends, the benefits available in the exchange are likely to be less generous and less robust than what employers offer today.”
Nonetheless, Mendelson says the exchanges will set the standards going forward. “These are going to be solid commercial insurance products offered by leading health insurance companies,” he said. “They are widely seen as the future.”
It will pay, he said, for the companies to make it easy to understand what they’re offering for sale on the exchanges.
Related links:
Boehner: 'Obamacare is the law of the land'
A consumer's guide to health reform, post-election
Supreme Court ruling leaves poorest Americans at risk
More workers opt out of company health plans
A quarter of kids live in families struggling with medical bills
Leave a Comment:
What is a plan worth if it has a 5K deductable. I do NOT use 5K worth of insurance in a year.
This is a POS law, poorly written anyway.
Take the difference and invest in a Health Savings Account. The premium on a plan with a $5K deductible should only run you about 2K per year, depending on your age/health.
Well Baldenario, when you or one of your family members disocover an unexplained lump in a lymph node (I pray that never happens to you) and you watch it grow for 6 months because you have to wait that long for an appointment, will you still think this plan is "Fabulous"? In your remarks I sense a certain amount of animosity toward a lot of people in general that seems to stem from a feeling that all those bad people are finally getting what's coming to them and now you're getting even with them through this legislation. But if it hurts EVERYONE, it just doesn't seem like it was the right way to go about fixing the real problems without creating ones that are fare worse with a plan that will never be reversed ... you can't unring the bell. The racial animosity just sad.
Balden here is one you may understand when and if 1 of your family develop sickle cell then you will wish you had a better choice on who and when you can see a doctor.
18 million people are expected to get a 6,000 policy on an annual basis. Where is the 108 billion dollars every year to pay for this coming from? Does anyone believe that ONLY 18 million people are going to be suckling at the government teet on this or that it will only cost 6k per person? Does anyone think that employers will not be dropping millions more off of their balance sheet and onto the government program at the taxpayers expense? It will be cheaper for employers to pay the fine than to pay the premium. Our healthcare industry will be toast.
Does anyone know where the money for the subsidy is going to come from? If I calculated it right 23 million people getting a $6000 subsidy for health insurance is 138 billion dollars... where is that money supposed to come from?
Savings from all the healthy people.......you didn't hear the President and his minions?
Must of missed it.
Well, since the government does not have money unless it takes it from people, it is going to come from one taxpayer to give to another.
Yes bookem that sounds like a fair thing to do take from the poor and give to the rich that can NOT afford to pay for there insurance, because they are paying to high of taxes to support the POOR.
What is being taken from the poor and given to the rich by the government? Steve, what you say may sound true in your mind, but is not even close to true. The "poor" do not pay very much in federal taxes so they would not even be supporting themselves.
EVERYONE, EVERYONE, EVERYONE IS MISSING ONE IMPORTANT FACTOR.
NO matter what the state does, NO matter what Obamacare does or doesn't do --NO matter if you a Dem Or Rep---
WHO IS GOING TO HELP,FIX or CURE YOU? Your Doctor? Think again people!!!
Ok--- lets set this up. I'm talking about a regular ole Dr.here, not a specialist. When was the last time you actually saw your Dr.? How long did it take you to make an appointment? How long did you have to waite in that waiting room? How long did you wait in the exam room? AND the big one---how long did you actually get to see your Dr.---10 or 15 minutes?
Now--- if everyone has to buy insurance or the state gives it to you, etc,etc,etc, and everyone will now be able to "afford" a doctor, how long do you think the waiting is NOW going to be? OR will you hear these words, "I'm sorry, the doctor (group, association, etc) IS NOT LONGER SEEING NEW PATIENTS?"
What all of you really don't understand is that 1,000's of doctors WILL NOT ACCEPT Obamacare as payment. I'm not slamming Obamacare, but here's what is going to happen. Medicare pays about 40 cents on the billed doller, Medicade pays about 30 cents. Tons of doctors (their med groups, associations, etc) are getting out of medicade type insurance when the state changes it. (They op to NOT renew thier contracts do to low payment) As to Obamacare, word has it that they will pay between Medicare or Medicade, actually more towards the Medicade side (remembere the debates--- cost cutting med care, etc.) and with that 1,000's of doctors WILL NOT SIGN UP to accept Obamacare. Why? Because 75% of the time, the Dr's LOOSE MONEY on each and every Medicare case and barley break even on Medcare cases. So why would any Dr. sign up to see more people---knowing that he will either lose money or just break even. Would YOUwant to work more for nothing?
Now this is no slam on Obamacare--- it's just a matter of money and the number of Dr's, FNP's and PA's available. Most general doctors, FNP's and PA's see about 20-30 people a day and with everyone now being able to "afford" health insurance how many more can those care takers see---especially when the number of care taker decreases?
thats not how the plan works. it can be digitally run for extremely cheap.. Thats how you do it with federal employees. Its actually amazingly cheap. And the insurance company choices and all the plans within those companies are available to you. You know those awesome plans everyone complains about federal employees having and not them? Well guess what, now you get them too. And you get the buying power of your entire state or even nation depending on the particular plan you get. Not just the buying power of your company. Youll save a buttload, plus have amazing healthcare for once. For a single individual, its about 30 bucks every 2 weeks to 60 bucks every 2 weeks depending on what plan you want. Family youll pay about 300 a month for the top, or for the savings account types, 100-200 depending, and its deducted from your taxed part of your income, so youll barely see any of that come from the actual take home pay part of your paycheck. Its actually really fancy, and really cheap, and on top of that even tax deductable from there.
i.e. you basically get all the plans that are offered in the nation that your state allows plus what the state has. The federal employee plan basically. Its cheap insurance that covers you very well.
by the way, when I say every plan in the nation.. I mean every plan in the nation. Hundreds...
by the way also, those were the prices that federal employees pay.. Once everyone in america is in that market, it goes down way way way more.
An easy answer to this problem would be to allow the citizens of each state VOTE to participate. That means there will be no penalties for those that choose not to. You all can waste your time on figuring out the math but what you should be doing is talking to your state representatives to make this happen. If 50+ million people say NO, maybe something will get done about this socialist law. If you support it, fine, you pay for it. I shouldn't be subjected to something I had no input in.
WOW what a noble idea. That is exactly what the republicans wanted to happen. Let it be a state issue.
OBLAMER had a different vision for the American people, he wants to suck all the money out of us so he can make up what he lost through obamanomics.
I think it is time to reinstate the original Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Although I am a woman I now realize it was an appalling mistake to give women the right to vote. They are idiots! Does anyone not see the problem with having people who are getting free government money vote on increasing taxes on people who work so that there is more free money for people who don't??
Two of my children are going to quit working and go get their "free" government money - finally some of the money my husband and I worked for will actually be spent on our own family.
Its like the PUBLIC sector unions getting higher PAY packages & better benefits that will kill the working man with the taxes that we will have to shell out.
Let's start with facts and common sense. Fact. Uninsured people cost tons of money to all taxpayers. It is not moral or fiscally responsible to use health care services and not pay into the system. Solution. Make everyone get insurance so they pay for their health care, or don't provide any health care to anyone who does not have insurance. Die on the street, in your home whatever. Get sick and sorry no medications for you. Because you can't pay for it. If you can't afford a car, you can't have a car. If you can't afford a roof over your head, live in a tent. And if you are born into a loser family, too bad, you get to live in the tent too and not get any medical care. In fact, let's privatize education. Unless you can pay for it, forget it. Let's privatize everything--roads, hospitals, fire and emt services. When the call comes in, check the database, if you didn't pay or aren't current on your payments, forget it. Or maybe reasonable and smart people can figure out how this can work for everyone's benefit. It would seem that having more and better competition for health insurance options should be a good thing. It would seem that low income wage earners who are actually contributing to the economy, trying to make a go of their families, should have access and pay their fair share. It would seem small businesses need to have a business plan that can allows them to exist and takes fair care of its employees. If you are a business and yet you cannot afford to be in business, then go get a job with a company that can afford to be in business. Not covering your employees is a way of getting, oh should I say it, government entitlement--in other words, let the government take care of all my part time workers while I benefit from their work, pay them low wages and don't provide them with any basic necessities--like health care. It's like big corporations making big profits at the huge expense of their workers. It's not right. But most of all, it is ultimately fiscal suicide. If you cannot grow and sustain a successful middle class, your days are numbered.
Are you kidding me?
"It is not moral or fiscally responsible to use health care services and not pay into the system."
Most people that use and don't pay still will.
I don't know where to start with the rest of that drivel but let's try workers benefit from there employers by getting paid for their labor and that is all the employer should be responsible for, PERIOD!
Government interferrence in the market is the reason we have the system we have today. Government froze pay during WWII and because of this, employers began offering some health care benefits. Government changed the tax code and employers offered more.
If government would let the market work without manipulation, we would not have such high costs of health care which lead to high costs of insurance.
Bookem Danno, that assumes that most people in the world aren't greedy, or worried about the bottomline.
Book there is another big thinker, if the private sector had full control of the health care system with nothing to block them from raising prices, no one but billionaires could afford it.
Why does everyone think that they should be ENTITLED to having their employers pay for their health insurance...oh, I forgot the Obama Administration has turned us into a country of Entitlement. As a small business owner, I cannot afford to offer insurance for myself, let alone employees. Wonder if they're still going to blame Bush for our economic problems....The last 4 years totally did this country in....I can't imagine what havoc Obama will cause during the next 4...We have only ourselves to thank
MT, Evidently you and the rest of the miserasble, hateful folks on the Right simply cannot grasp the fact that EVERY AMERICAN, not just those who have the money, deserve decent health care. It is a basic right, just as we take for granted police and fire protection for the town we live in.
Does it trouble you at all that the U.S. ranks 26th in the world in terms of quality of health care? That our infant mortality rate approaches that of some third world countries and that the health care you and I current receive costs more than TWICE AS MUCH as that of any other industrialized nation?
I'm willing to bet, having never met you, that you had no problem when Dubya and Draft Dodging Dick Cheney were pissing away hundreds upon hundreds of Billions in their little fiasco in Iraq. I'm right, ain't I? Yea, I knew I was right. But the prospect of guaranteeing all Americans this basic service, required by all humans, you find to be poisonous and rant about it bringing about the downfall of our nation. Ask yourself why EVERY OTHER industrialized nation has some form of universal health care. Are Americans really that much smarter than everyone else in the world? I would tend to doubt it.
It should be the employers CHOICE. Citizens shouldn't be taxed if they CHOOSE not to participate. Doctors and hospitals should also have this choice as to accept this or not. I thought this was a free nation? I guess that also depends on who you ask....
OUT, Free nation? You mean I can do anything I want to do at any time??? Great news. I no longer have to pay taxes, I can drive throught the center of my town doing 90mph and I can ignore all those pesky zoning restrictions in my neighborhood and build an oil refinery in my back yard.
Sorry fella, living in a modern society brings with it certain expectations of responsibility. EVERY person sooner or later requires health care, that is not debatable and as such, it is only fitting that the government has some say in it. Do you or will you collect Social Security and use Medicare to pay your health bills later in life??? If so, then you are a Socialist. That's right, Medicare is a form of Social Security, like it or not. Ronald Reagan predicted the downfall of our nation in 1964 when LBJ created it but somehow our nation has managed to survive. And guess what? Even little blue haired, Republican Grannies have grown to LOVE THEIR SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. You doubt me? Go and try to take it away from them and see where it gets you. Hell, your boy Willard the Draft Dodger was claiming that he was the great protector of Medicare and accused Obama of having robbed 700 Billion from it.
Well Ozzie boy let me start like this. If every other country in this world were to go broke because they can NOT afford so you think America should follow suit.
I feel if I do NOT want healthcare I should be able to go with out it. If I do NOT want to purchase a car and drive in this country I should and do NOT have to purchase insurance. If I am not using the healthcare system why should I have to purchase healthcare insurance?
WOW ozzie spoken like a true LIBERAL.
You are wrong I know people that have not used healthcare in over 25 years.
I also know people that got killed in a car crash and they did not use healthcare either.
To state that you will evetually use healthcare is flawed.
steve, over 25 years, implying that at somepoint they did? Sure people go years without needing it... Happens all the time.. Eventually they will.
Thats the point.
Eddie, Steve is one of those big thinking right wonders. Hasn't got a clue as to what this system was costing us as tax payers over what other countries pay. Steve can you grasp the fact that we pay twice as much for our health care as every other country on earth?
Gawd let's blow this taco stand. They aren't serving anything good. Democrats and their constituents are going to be the demise of the Union. What a horrible thing to see.
Yes ANDREW, the end of the world is at hand. Boooo Hoooo. Better suck it up buddy and quit with the whining. All you Righties who were so arrogant just 3 days ago now are having your heads explode and are crying in your beer. You'll survive. I made it through 8 long miserable years of Dubya running our economy into the ground and bogging us down in two unending, unfunded wars which we'll be paying for for years to come. And in spite of that, the Republic has survived. You'll make it through another 4 years of Obama. And who knows, as the economy slowly improves, perhaps you'll eventually bring yourself to say something nice about our president, though I'm not betting on it. You Righties have way too much hate and ignorance to ever acknowledge that possibly you were mistaken in your original viewpoint.
OK I will say something nice about the president, His daughters look like decent people.
But his policies SUCK. So does his healthcare mandate.
try actually reading the the healthcare law, from the actual source. Not from fox news or some third party site. It might actually suprise you.
Eddie, there is a lot of good in the ACA for middle the people in this country. Not so much for those that have not been held accountable in the past. The so called free riders, but they will be held accountable for their hospital bill now.
"travelocity for health insurance"///
uh, yeah, it's called the internet and sites like ehealthinsurance. It's been around for years. Maybe you've heard of it. FFS
ehealth will ONLY insure the healthy with NO problems like a simple issue of COP (cryptgenic organizing pneumonia), even though I have been off ALL medication for over 2 years now. I have not smoked in over 6 maybe longer years. So I say they are worthless.
If you do NOT need to see a doctor then they will insure you. Once you need a doctor they will drop you.
They will continue to insure you as long as they do not have to PAY ANYTHING OUT.
All you beaching about ACA, have only yourself to blame. We could have had Single-Payer and gotten the greed of corporate interest out of Healthcare, but you supported the Republicans and look what it got you. More greed from corporate interests and a bad deal from a Centrist president that everyone kept saying was a Socialist. OMG socialism is SOOOOOO BAAADDDDD.
I'll just sit back and move back to my families country of Canada and laugh all the way to the bank. Losers.
Don't let the door hitch you in the A$$ loser!
Canada has a better health care system than the U.S. and it cost half as much. Ozzie, you are one sick puppy. Get help.
Self employed Americans are getting closer to not having to pay close to a second mortgage, on health insurance!
How do you figure that.
Give me fugures please not just words. I do alot better with MATH than trying to sort out others drivel.
Ozzie Boy, if you count the abortions our infant mortality rate is probably the worst in the world.
Ozzie, if you pass a law banning abortion, do you think it would actually stop?
i wonder if any of you realize isreal has had socializes health care since it's inception, and most 1st world countries do too!!!! let's use our tax money on our citizens and quit policing the world!!!!!!!!
Why does everyone try and compare every country in the world to us? i
thoughtthink that the United States is an Exceptional country lets not try and bring us down to everyone else level please. Free Markets less goverment is the only way to stay on top. That is if you want us to stay on top? Sometimes i wonder about our publics mentality.Till we get these IDIOTS in Washington to quit giving away our money to these other countries, we can NOT afford to.
I did NOT see in the in school that we had to be like other countries.
You are wrong jim, it isn't most countries, it is all industrialized countries except for one other. These countries recognize access to health care as a basic human right. Ozzieyo1, we are exceptional but in a bad way. The fact is we pay twice as much for our health care as every other country in the world. Twice as much. You know what we get for that. We rank 38th in the world as far as quality of care using a criteria like death rates, low birth rates, and several others. We suck. Our free market system is making us worse then a third world country. Hell Cuba as much as we hate them ranks ahead of us. Steve, you are a lost cause and really need to go back to school. What we are doing in this country is the same as cutting off our nose to spite our face. That facts.
The people that you are going to rely on to take care of you are already seeking new avenues such as private practice for self pays only. There will be fewer doctors in this country and the ones that are dumb enough to stick around will be quacks AND you will have to wait months to see him. It won't happen tomorrow, but today will be remembered as the "good old days" of health care. Like teachers, professors and Union Members, health care professionals demand a high wage for their work and they get it most of the time. That alone drives up the cost of health care services. Just like the aformentioned workers, good luck trying to talk those folks down from their current pay.
Boehner said it: "It's the law of the land" statement coupled with, "the election changes that" and he also said "We're ready to lead, not as Democrats or Republicans, but as Americans. Do not trust Boehner! He and the other TEA-Republicans do not accept the mandate the president received with his 332 to 103 Electoral vote and 61,209,598 to 58,194,587 popular vote. The mandate is there!The states have to decide now, if they're going to run their own health insurance marketplaces or have the federal government do it for them. Insurance companies will have to play the game set forth by the PPACA(Health Care Act) as well and the markets will lower premiums there as well.
Rudy Gonzales, probably be cheaper to use the system the Federal Government has in place. Its used for federal employees right now. States like Massachussetts that already have their own should probably keep their own. But the federal plans are actually amazing. You get your choice of basically all the plans in the nation that your state laws currently allow. Plus the federal law now. The federal law will basically prevent fake insurance companies that are basically scams to take your money and not give anything in return. Youll save alot of money, its tax deductible from paycheck to paycheck, rather than waiting for your tax returns. So youll see it come out of the tax dollars you pay out plus maybe a little from your take home pay depending on what plan you get. Hundreds of plans to choose from, and with the buying power of the nations people or your states people, rather than just some company. Alot more effective and cheaper.
Essentially what it does, is give individuals or companies the buying power of the entire nation or state.
Yup, Obama won. The GOP isn't going to "save you". NOW GET IT DONE.
John in Battle Creek, please wise up, you will still get stuck with the bill! The Congressional Budget Office has repeatedly stated that there are no cost controls in Obama care and that the cost will rise over time. Also, the IRS has stated that they have no way to collect the fines for people who can't or won't pay fines owed. Hope you enjoy finding someone who will treat you when you need treatment. Many doctors are already deciding to close up shop because they already get the shaft on Medicare and Medicade payments from Uncle Sam and they know that AFA will be no different.
I feel for the doctors. The government doesn't purchase the hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment needed to run a practice and malpractice insurance costs continue to rise. I think many doctors will give up their practices way before they have to file for personal bankruptcy due to write off's caused when patient's treatment cost exceeding what insurance and government programs pay. Remember, many of them are small business owners who work for themselves and employ their own staff.
While I am all for fixing the health care system and consider that most important task, I haven't been able to understand why people would by health insurance if the penalty is only 1% of your income (a good family health insurance costs above a 1000 a month for group plans)? Wouldn't they pay the penalty and if they get sick, go and buy the insurance then? Can somebody explain? I think that the penalties should be in the range of the insurance premiums for that idea to work.
You big thinkers on the right do realize that paying the fine will not shield you from health care cost. If you need service it will cost you full price, with what ever assets you have being confiscated to pay your bill. Only this time the federal government will take it out of any return from over payment of your taxes. Don't pay taxes, go to jail, and you will still need some money to pay the Doctor. The only difference I see is that now you free riders that used to stick me with the bill because I have insurance will be responsible for your own. Obama care is a good thing and it will lower health care cost.
Easy fix. Don't buy the insurance. Pay the fine and watch you withholdings so that you get no federal return to be confiscated by the IRS.
John, how will sending someone to jail for not paying their fine/tax/fees/healthcare costs (whatever the euphemism of the day for this travesty is) going to lower the costs of healthcare. If a person is in jail YOU have to foot their expenses, they lose their job and not pay taxes, they become welfare moochers that YOU pay for and then they qualify for subsidized healthcare premiums that YOU pay for! Yea, it is a win win for ya, huh?
No it won't lower the cost it will lower the service and doctor choice. On top of that a lot/most of the freeriders will still be just that becausethey will get waivers because they can't afford it.
first of all, you are all wrong, the law doesn't do any of that... Its ridiculous.
guys actually read the law, not what fox news or what some 3rd party says about the law.
Ive actually read it.
Don't pay your taxes and see where you end up. Simply put, its time for the free riding republicans to pay up.
Again, we know that know one has never read the whole law yet so stop the BS. I don't care if it doesn't say that in the law it will come to be when doctors say F this and opt out. Only the Rich will have what the level of care i get right now look at England.
so basically ozzie you are making up a whole bunch of baloney about something you don't even know. Thats what you are telling me. Why should I take into consideration anything you say?
Eddie, your right, those that think that paying the fine will excuse them from paying their doctor bill are sadly mistaken. There are civil penalties, including garnishment. What the hell, sometimes its like talking to rock.
i mean if you are going to complain about something... at least have the decency to know what it is so you can even talk about it without looking like a complete moron. Please... at least do that.
and yeah john you are right.
Eddie, look to England only the rich get the best health care the rest of the peons have to stand in line.
except its not remotely close to the same plan... its all private insurance companies still. Its nothing remotely close to england... if anything it resembles what massachussetts has but mainly looks like what federal employees and congressmen get.
Look man, you have to actually read the law and find out... theres actually very little socialism in it. Youd be really suprised... just read it.
I dont know why I even argue with you about this.. what you are saying has nothing to do with the law thats here in the states.
John, does that also mean that the glorious welfare mooches that voted almost exclusively for Obama and his agenda will have their welfare checks garnished for not paying their share of the doctors bill or do YOU get stuck with it? Does that apply to unemployment checks too? Or do the leeches on society get to continue to bleed their hosts until it is all gone?
Eddie, are you trying to angle for one of those unelect board positions?
not really no... I just work my job and have a family... thats it.
Rodney, try thinking. I know it will hurt. People on welfare have Medicaid, the ACA is for the working poor and up. Moochers, there are no bigger moocher then republicans. Those that have the ability to pay, should. By the way, I am retired now and one of those moochers. Oh wait a minute I paid into Social Security my whole working life. So bite me.
Does anyone think that a wealthy US Senator, US Representative or US President really gives a sh!t what we pee'ons pay for health care or insurance? Does anyone think that the ACA is nothing more than a governmental policy designed to control the masses through regulations and threat of fines or imprisonment?The ACA will be administered by unelected bureaucrats and the IRS? Do those agencies sound like healthcare professionals? Our healthcare system is doomed and we are going to be right behind it as we are shoved into our virtual graves!
I actually already am in the exchange... Its alot cheaper than what most people pay, plus I actually get REAL full coverage. Im living proof it works.
by the way, there arent bureaucrats that get in the way. All the law does is prevent insurance companies from getting in the way. I don't understand where you are getting your facts from. I didnt read that in the law.
Your full of it Eddie. What, you work for Obama with that crap. You blew by saying you didn't read it in the law.....we all know nobody has read the entire law yet.
ridiculous.... Im on the marketplace plan. You choose hundreds of different plans. You are basically shopping with the buying power of a ton of companies put together.
Eddie, the election is over and ObamaCare is the law of the land. You can stop campaigning now. Just wait a year or two and get back with us on the glories of ObamaCare. You may have read the law, but everyone with at least 1 cell between their ears knows that the specifics of "as the Secretary deems" are hammered out, YOU DON'T KNOW A THING!
Ive lived with those kind of plans, before he was even elected to the second term rodney... I know its hard to explain to you... but once the market places are up (originally a republican idea by the way) youll see what Im talking about.
Eddie, the plan does not take FULL effect until 2014 or later. It is by design to fool simple minded people into thinking they have found Utopia. Just wait.
no its stalled because the only way to get insurance company lobbyists to allow the congressmen they bought to vote yes, it had to be stalled, or have huge sums of money paid in tax deductions and subsidies paid to them.
Now that part of the bill, Id love to have taken out.
Thats actually most of the cost of the bill.
No mention of all the companies announcing layoffs due to Obamacare. How will those people afford health care? Or food? Or clothing? Or electricity? or anything? For the ones that voted for Obama I could care less. That's what they asked for.
it isnt due to obamacare, its due to them being idiots. Playing politics is what it is.
You are wrong. It is due to Obamacare. Living in denial will not change it.
You know Eddie, its like talking to a wall. Selling something that is good for them and the country and yet they resist because millionairs that don't need insurance tell them too. How F-ing must they be.
John, yeah.. they will just have to see what I get to have once it comes into a effect in about 2 years. They have no idea what theyve been missing out on.
Why can't liberals understand that big government does not help them and rich people are not bad. Oh, that's right they're liberals.
Eddie, that's right business are laying people off out of spite they don't care that they are letting resources go that could earn them money, Brilliant!
You know John, talking to the obots is liking talking to dogsh!t. It doesn't comprehend the facts either. It just lies there stinking up the place. This week thousand sof people will lose their jobs because of Obamacare. In the coming months tens of thousands more will. You keep repeating the stupidity, facts are facts. It doesn't matter what theory you simpletons create to explain it away, the businesses are saying Obamacare.
ozzieyo1, the part of the law that starts saving money doesnt come into effect until 2014...
It sucks I know... But what has happened with the law so far shouldnt have caused that much of an increase in plans... In fact according to statistics, its already slowed down in inflation of costs per year. So if for example, your company is choosing to not go with the plans that have been slowing down increasing costs... thats your companies fault.
My premiums are scheduled to remain roughly the same this year. So I have no idea why its so bad for you. Honestly. I have no clue
Simple Theory
You might hear about companies announcing lay-offs based on health reform and lots of people believe their reasons. Many conservative business owners are very pissed at Obama's reelection, that fact you must believe.
There is no laying off or part-time employment due to the reelection of Obama. Those business owners need to do what they think was appropriate for their individual cases. Blaming "Obamacare" was a great choice for them, especially when you have employees you care for.
Eddie, good business people plan years in advance they don't just look at next year.
no offense, maybe you should change the business you work for... Because Im not experiencing these problems like you apparently are. Not my fault your business sucks. Sorry. My premiums raising through the years are now getting to the point where its about even now... Who knows might even go back down. PLus what ever I dont use, the insurance company has pay me back if its a certain %
I have no idea where you get the idea that my situation is bad I don't want it to change and it will with this Act.
the only thing that happens is in 2014, your company can participate in a bigger buying pool.
simple theory, you have a clue how stupid you are. If companies lay off workers they are putting their business at risk, Why. Because business is fueled by demand. No demand, no need to build things. Obama care will lower the cost for these companies not raise it. Think, I know its hard for you. 30 million new customers for the insurance industry, a majority are healthy, but all still need insurance against the unthinkable. A life threatening illness or accident and you can run up hundreds of thousands in debt. I am sorry but you right wonders need to set down and read the bill and then do that thing I suggested, think. Don't take Rush's word for it. He is paid to work you up as are the rest of the hate media. The aca is a good thing, we will see it. Story time. When I was a young lad, just starting to work, I was told that Social Security would not be there for me. Guess what, I am an old fart now and I am drawing, yep thats right. Social Security and I am enjoying the benefits of Medicare since I am ill. It really is to bad about you people. If you hate government so much you should just go away.
lilirocks
Here's just a few, info provided by the Washington Times. Notice they are NOT "conservative companies"(whatever that means, i guess that's a liberal thing. Pretty stupid if you ask me)
Welch Allyn
Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law.
Dana Holding Corp.
As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing "$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses". After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide.
Stryker
One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions.
Boston Scientific
In October of 2009, Boston Scientific CEO Ray Elliott, warned that proposed taxes in the health care reform bill could "lead to significant job losses" for his company. Nearly two years later, Elliott announced that the company would be cutting anywhere between 1,200 and 1,400 jobs, while simultaneously shifting investments and workers overseas - to China.
Medtronic
In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013.
Others
A short list of other companies facing future layoffs at the hands of Obamacare:
Smith & Nephew - 770 layoffs
Abbott Labs - 700 layoffs
Covidien - 595 layoffs
Kinetic Concepts - 427 layoffs
St. Jude Medical - 300 layoffs
Hill Rom - 200 layoffs
Beyond the complete elimination of a significant number of American jobs is another looming problem created by the health care law - a shift from full-time to part-time workers
Read more: PICKET: Companies plan massive layoffs as Obamacare becomes reality - Washington Times #ixzz2Bm0jrsup
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
Keep worshipping the fantasy. These are real people. My hope is, given the location of these companies, most of them probably voted Obama. Oh well, be careful what you ask for.
There ya go John from Battle Creek who has nothing to back up your hero-worship. This is real. It is the genius burger flippers such as yourself who doesn't understand business. Or even how to pay attention to what the people who actually run businesses have to say....just like Obama and the Democrats.
I am a small business owner that tried to offer insurance to my employees. I offered it to my employees with the company paying 50% of the premium and employees would not sign up. Being a business with over 50 employees, I am now either forced to offer health insurance or pay the fine. I will do neither. As of 2013 I will be the owner and operator of two business that do the exact same thing. I will put 1/2 the employees in one business half in the other. One business will now subcontract to the second business. in essence I will hire myself to do the work. I will have to pay extra for the liability insurance coverage on the second business but it is way cheaper than the fine or health care.
Why should I have to pay for something that employees will not pay for themselves. If they would have paid 50% of their premiums they would have healthcare already. It is not my obligation as an employer or as an American to pay for your healthcare. I took it upon myself to learn enough emergency medical training that I can take care of all the minor injuries that most people go the the emergency room for. Ie stitches, simple broken bones dislocated joints etc.
We as a nation have raised a bunch of hypochondriacs, if they sneeze they go to the emergency room because they think they have cancer or some other disease. It is ridiculous.
John and Eddie, you didn't explain what will prevent people from being tempted to buy insurance only when they need it as coverage cannot be denied. Seems like the risk is only an urgent visit.
grga1..
http://www.uccifedvip.com/tucfep/employees/home.jsp?nicam=General&nichn=Google&ppckeyword=federal%20insurance&niseg=General
this is basically what its going to look like. Read it up... this is what federal employees actually get. minus postal employees since they are considered a private enterprise believe it or not.
sorry my bad, thats just one company
https://www.benefeds.com/Portal/loginUser.do?MenuName=Research
this is the list of all of them
and by the way, what you see there and the prices, will only decrease as more people added to the marketplace increases the buying power. Alot of them are actually great plans.
Its tax deductible from your paycheck, rather than waiting for taxes (which depending on how much you make and pay in medical expenses is also tax deductible there.)
Best insurance plans in the country hands down.
Read it to believe it.
also I believe what I linked was the dental and vision... need to find the health website too... hold up.
edit... found it
http://www.opm.gov/insure/federal_employ/index.asp?ProgramId=1
now that link is the health insurance ones themselves... Read it, and believe it. Now in 2014, imagine that with reduced costs because of extra human resource buying power by the millions more.
http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/planinfo/index.asp
heres where you select your plan by state... just pretend you are a non postal employee thats what youll see.
essentially what you see are anything form the low cost programs to the cadillac programs. You can choose any plan you want.
Why aren't we being offered the same health insurance plan that is given to government employees? That is what Obama originally promised and the care/plan is better than anything available to private individuals. Aren't we as good as the people we pay taxes to support?
wizza, thats in 2014 when thats implemented.
Eddie, what can i say but you are truly amazing! Rock on i'm out here.