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Karen Mahmud
Karen Mahmud, 43, of Long Island, N.Y., holds her long-haired Chihuahua, Lola, who barks in a squeaky whisper after surgeons cut the dog's vocal cords.
When Porter, a 123-pound black Newfoundland, attempts to bark, it comes out as a raspy cough. When Lola, a 6-pound long-haired Chihuahua, tries, she emits only a whispery squeak.
Both dogs have been “devocalized," or surgically muffled, using a controversial procedure regarded as either barbaric mutilation by lazy pet owners -- or as the last resort of animal lovers desperate to keep their furry companions.
Porter’s owner, Sue Perry, a 58-year-old Connecticut bookkeeper, and Lola’s owner, Karen Mahmud, a 43-year-old New York nutrition blogger, fall squarely into the first camp. They’re part of the Coalition to Protect and Rescue Pets, an activist group that helped get the practice known as “debarking” or "devoicing" outlawed in Massachusetts two years ago. Now they have set their sights on the American Veterinary Medical Association.
“I was just horrified by this,” said Perry, who adopted Porter from a rescue agency five years ago. “When he tried to bark, I was, like, ‘What the heck?’”
Though they’ve never met in person, the two women have joined to launch an online petition demanding that the AVMA, the nation’s leading group of veterinarians, condemn devocalization when the organization reviews its policy on the procedure later this year. So far, more than 125,000 people have signed onto their cause.
“It’s very, very upsetting,” said Mahmud, who also got Lola from a rescue group and says she watches the tiny dog suffer with constant coughing and acting like there's something stuck in her throat. “I would never think that it’s OK to put a dog under needless torture. If a dog barks, a dog barks.”
But that point of view is vigorously opposed by groups such as the National Animal Interest Alliance, an animal welfare organization in Portland, Ore., and by dog experts such as Charlotte McGowan, a Boston-area dog breeder and noted American Kennel Club honoree who has judged at the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show.
To advocates, the procedure is a rarely performed, simple operation that can allow an owner to quiet incessant barking that may lead to eviction, friction with neighbors or stress so intense it makes them want to get rid of the pet -- or worse.
“It’s giving a tool to someone who really loves their animal and is at the end of their rope,” said McGowan, who refers to the procedure as “bark softening” and says it doesn’t totally eliminate a dog’s ability to make noise.
McGowan, 68, said she has had dogs debarked herself during more than 40 years of breeding and believes the procedure is both safe and effective, with no lasting damage to the animals. Though there are behavioral interventions and techniques to stop problem barking, some dogs are resistant to training, McGowan said.
“You hate to take a dog out of a home where it’s loved just because it barks," she said.
On the surface, the new petition, posted by Change.org, is aimed at influencing the AVMA’s policy on debarking. The group currently opposes the practice in general, but says devocalization may be used when other efforts have failed as a “final alternative” to relinquishing or euthanizing an animal.
Perry and Mahmud believe the AVMA’s reach is so broad, representing more than 82,500 veterinarians in the U.S., that the group should take the lead in opposing devocalization in the U.S. In Europe, they note, debarking is illegal.
Sue Porter
Sue Perry, 58, of Hartford, Conn., relaxes with Porter, her 7 1/2-year-old Newfoundland dog. He was debarked by previous owners and has had to have surgery to remove scar tissue in his throat. Still, he has trouble with breathing and eating.
“Until the AVMA changes their position, they’re condoning it, saying it’s OK as a last resort,” Perry said.
But Sheilah Robertson, a veterinarian and assistant director of the AVMA’s Animal Welfare Division, notes that the AVMA may have influence, but it has no ability to set laws or enforce bans.
“We just make strong recommendations,” Robertson said.
Other animal groups in the U.S., such as the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, or ASPCA, do oppose the practice outright. That group “does not support the use of surgical procedures that attempt to circumvent the behavior issue while exposing pets to unnecessary discomfort and risk,” the agency said in a statement.
At issue is the procedure known as venticulocordectomy, which involves removal of an animal’s vocal cords either by going through the mouth or through an incision in the throat, according to the AVMA.
It’s used to quiet dogs -- and cats, some say -- who are too loud or incessantly noisy. Experts say dogs bark excessively for many reasons: poor training, boredom, social isolation, in response to external stimulation, to protect territory and because of anxiety or compulsive disorder.
Though debarking is regarded as a simple, fairly inexpensive procedure -- about $400 to $500 -- critics say it deprives animals of their natural ability to communicate and poses physical problems from scar tissue that can impair breathing, eating and other normal activities.
Many veterinarians refuse to perform the procedure and Robertson said it’s no longer taught in veterinary schools. That’s because although there are other surgical procedures performed in that area, devocalization is never a medically necessary procedure, said Joel Woolfson, a board-certified veterinary surgeon in private practice in Medway, Mass.
“My feeling is very strong that this procedure is done strictly for the convenience of people who don’t want to hear or are annoyed by their pet’s vocalizations,” said Woolfson. “It has nothing to do with the health of the animal.”
Rather, Woolfson added, the procedure is performed by pet owners seeking a "quick fix" who don't want to spend the time and energy to address the actual cause of the problem.
"It's the ones that are just too lazy to try other approaches," he said. "Or they are just insensitive to the fact that it's a procedure that can cause some suffering."
No one knows for certain how many devocalization surgeries are performed in the U.S. each year. It may be less than one-tenth of all dogs seen for office visits, according to background material for Ohio legislation aimed at banning debarking of vicious dogs.
Four states -- Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Ohio -- have laws banning debarking under certain circumstances.
In Massachusetts, the law passed in 2010 was championed by the Coalition to Protect and Rescue Pets, the volunteer group that includes Perry and Mahmud.
In McGowan’s view, such groups are often made up of activists who hold extreme views and rely on scare tactics to advance their goals.
“I found that the emotion and irrationality of the people opposing this was really hard to fathom,” she said. “I got people who called me up and said ‘We know where you live.’ It was quite frightening.”
McGowan notes that many of the same people are ardent supporters of spaying and neutering pets, both invasive surgical procedures that could be viewed as being performed because they benefit humans.
“Talk about what’s cruel here,” she said. “A convenient surgery is neutering your dog.”
Robertson, of the AVMA, said the group’s Animal Welfare Committee will consider many points of view, from scientific evidence to public opinion, when members review the debarking policy.
Until then, although the heated discussion will continue, people who actually want to find a surgeon to debark a dog might have trouble, Robertson said.
“It’s not commonly done,” she said. “They’d have to look around pretty widely to find one.”
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Our dogs' first owners had them devocalized, then gave them up. Some vets perform this needless surgery even knowing the pain and suffering it causes. LEARN MORE: http://cprpets.weebly.com/about-devocalization-of-dogs-and-cats.html
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If we are going to ban debarking dogs we should also ban declawing cats- to declaw a cat it is the amputation of the end of all their toes. (the equivalent of amputating the ends of human fingers and toes at the last joint).
Both are cruel and usually unnecessary surgeries.
I agree. All of the cat's I have had kept their claws. It's simple. Get a scratching post and train them to use it.
Expecting a dog not to bark is like expecting a fish not to swim. You can train dogs not to bark. This is just another example of irresponsible people not taking the time to make sure that their pets are well behaved.
My neighbors haven't trained their dog not to bark. And I can't really kidnap the thing, and train it myself. If I thought I could get away with sneaking it for a day, and having it's barker fixed, I'd be on it in a second.
And declawing a cat doesn't hurt it. I've known plenty of people with declawed cats. They are strictly indoor cats, and they live happy lives.
"When Porter, a 123-pound black Newfoundland, attempts to bark, it comes out as a raspy cough"
------------ Obviously racism played the biggest part in the reason why this dog was "de-barked". Thats unaccpetable and a hate crime.
Seriously though, I am no animal rights activist, but this is unnatural and cruel, in my opinion. If this is a good idea to someone, then it would be better for them not to get a dog. Very simple solution.
I cant see anything wrong with de barking a dog, they clip their ears and tails all the time, if the dog cant bark then it wont miss it, or if they do it would be entertaining. I have known many dogs that would have benefited from the operation because their owners are too stupid or not home all day to stop the dog from barking, these are the animals that soon as the owner goes out they start, as i see it it is way better than taking it out back and finishing it.
@Spencer, you are a cruel human being and I hope someone devocalizes you. It is a very cruel and inhumane thing to do to a dog. That is how a dog communicates by barking and if you cannot stand your neighbors dog barking then move, get ear plugs or dig a hole and bury yourself. Disgusting you are.
@ Sauve-3568661, your just like Spencer, a disgusting human being, if you do not like your neighbors dog barking then move. I hope someone takes your ability to talk away from you.
DoobyDoo-2977330
Typical BS libiot reply! The owner doesn't need to take any responsibility for themselves or their property (pet) right?
If you don't like MY reply, then may I suggest YOU move...to Iran!
Clipping ears and tails is just as wrong. Why do you think it's the breeder who defends this procedure? Because she knows that after debarking the next target would be those procedures. I just don't understand the mentality of people who want a particular animal as a pet, but then surgically alter some of the essential features of that animal.
I agree with myspellchecker, if this sounds like a good idea to you, then owning a dog is not a good idea for you.
And in regards to cat declawing, even if I accepted the procedure as painless (which I don't, but for sake of moving on to the point, I will allow it), there is still the fact that an indoor declawed cat is at an astronomically greater risk of developing arthritis and living a shorter life. Why? Take a look at the way a cat stretches when it wakes up. It digs its front claws into the ground and then does a sort of bow. A declawed cat is not capable of executing that, or at least executing it as necessary, and as a result they develop arthritis. This is well documented.
Surgically altering a being to suit your needs is not acceptable. It's not acceptable for dogs, cats, boys with circumcision, and girls with genital mutilation. All these things come out of some perverse mentality that it is ok to cut and carve a being other than yourself, and it never is.
Move?! Are you crazy? It's people like you that put animals above humans that makes me sick. Uproot a family because of an inconsiderate neighbor? Please. If the law won't fine them into submission than they better get rid of it, move, or prepare the pet for extreme consequences.
This dog is the only one in the neighborhood. It's not communicating with any other dog. It's just making noise.
There are a dozen houses that are close enough to hear this thing barking all day and night. Eventually someone is going to complain enough, and the city is going to take the dog, and it'll be put down. But hey, that's better than shutting it up.
While I don't think it's a good thing to do. I think it is a way for people to save their dog. If you have a dog who barks and people start to complain if you live in a apartment you will be evicted and finding a apartment that allows dogs is no easy trick. Some people say train the dog but a lot of dogs are stupid. I love dogs I've had 6 at different times but I've known hundreds and many are dumb. Like Pomeranians they are the dumbest dogs on earth and if you have one that barks you can't train it not to just be glad if it doesn't hump your shoe. Outlaw this surgery then many dogs will die because the people will not be able to keep them and once you've had to give up a dog because it barked to much you probably won't get another. Millions of dogs and cats are put down every year because there just isn't enough homes to go around. And if you could ask a dog about to be put down if they would choose de-barking and a loving home over death which do you think they'd choose.
My dog (min pin/beagle mix) is a perfectly well behaved and, mostly, quiet dog. However, as soon as I leave the house she begins to bark. Constantly!!! One neighbor said she just knew that eventually my dog would lose her voice and the noise would stop but it never did. She barked for 10 hours STRAIGHT!!!
After several complaints from neighbors I have been forced to lock her inside the house when I am gone. That means she has to "hold it" the whole day. She has lost the joy of laying in the sunny spot in the yard. running around chasing whatever (squirell!!!). I feel guilty leaving her locked up but have no other choice. Training, and even shock collars (that I dispise) have not worked. I would have her "debarked" in a second if I could find a vet to do it if only so I could give her back her freedom.
Tonyin Wyo, I did not even reply to you, but you move to IRAN, they do not care for any kind of life, so that is where you belong. DEBARKING a dog is very cruel. Debark yourself.
I couldn't imagine having my dog devocalized. He actually tries to talk to us, he howls with us, and he just generally makes an effort to communicate vocally with us. I'd hate not ever being able to hear his voice again. 'Cause, human or not, he does have a voice, and it really is all his own, and to rob him of it would be cruel beyond measure. To say nothing of the fact that I simply love his voice, because I love him, and it's part of him.
DoobyDoo-2977330 your comments show your lack of intelligence, keep it up, though you might want to keep quiet so everyone dont know it for a fact.
If she was barking for 10 hours straight, she wasn't doing any of those things anyway.
Dogs bark, get over it. I can see a problem with one that barks all day, but most dogs do minor barking (short term) as a service to it's owner. The problem is everyone has a tolerance level. While some people get upset over a few barks, others may listen for hours before it bothers them. If my neighbor demanded I do this to my dog, I would also appease them by buying a silencer for my gun. I side with the dogs on this one. More and more, people are getting way too brittle.
Suave if you had ever heard a dog getting their tails and ears clipped you would not condone it. It is so horrific and horrible. Honestly I would prefer this group to expend their efforts to stop tail and ear clippings. At least the debarking is down while the dog is under.
BH... "get over it"? If your neighbors aren't willing to "get over it" they may sue you for disturbing the peace and fleece your bank account. Or...some neighbors will "DISAPPEAR" your dog if you won't take control of it. Not nice, but boo hoo.
You threatening to shoot your neighbors if they complain, there, BH? I love dogs, and I hate barking. If I lived next door to you and your dog barked incessantly...I have a 3 step program. 1. Go over and ask you to please quiet your dog. 2. Offer to help you train your dog to be more quiet. 3. See you out in the yard with your gun looking at my property and introduce a new hole in your head.
You think you are the only armed person in the world? You have responsibilities. When I had a sizable number of dogs in the yard, I purposely lived far away from the nearest neighbors. I trained the dogs to be quiet on command. I had an "open door" policy to discuss my dogs with concerned neighbors. And I wasn't so arrogant as to imagine that I could be as noisy as I wanted to and think the neighbors would hang their heads and go away.
Debarking does NOT hurt the dogs. It isn't cruel. It doesn't change a thing in their minds. But if you go running around the neighborhood threatening people who complain about the noise with a gun...somebody is going to drop you in self defense. Your dogs probably won't miss you.
I am not a pet owner, but my neighbors on both sides own dogs, sometimes these dogs bark, it is what dogs do; is it annoying, sure at times it is, but I would not want the dogs to be de-barked, just seems wrong to me. Maybe as Kim said above, in some cases it could be a viable last resort, Kim one of my neighbors raises Beagles and as you know they have a very distinctive howl like bark and bark at every damn thing that moves; still I would not want them de-barked, I hope you find a solution other than de-barking, but would understand if you went that route.
I tell you what is even more annoying than a barking dog, inconsiderate neighbors who walk their dogs, let them crap in someone else's yard and don't clean it up, that is just Fing rude.
It's no wonder. It's all a sign of our lazy society. Parents don't want to train their children which is why we see kids killing for bike parts or like that 15 year old girl a few years ago, just killing to see what it is like to kill. So how can you expect people to train their dogs not to bark? Even gun owners don't want to go train for safety to become responsible gun owners, so you see them shooting kids at night in the dark thinking they were shooting at a skunk. Then, low and behold, no one is arrested which re-enforces such behavior. People want the dogs, kids and guns and whatever else, they just don't want the responsibility that goes along with having them.
When I was going to college, my neighbor had a Pomeranian. They put their dog out at night which was right under my bedroom window, and that dog would bark (with that sharp loud bark) ALL NIGHT LONG!!! I know they did it because they couldn't take the dark barking in their home when they shut it out of the bedroom. Instead of taking the time to train the dog, they let me suffer with the animal's barking. Even so, I would not have even thought about this surgery.
This should NOT be legal!!!!!!!!!!
Bravo!
Those of you who complain about cruelty to animals have never lived next to a German Shepherd which barks 10 hours a day while the owner is away. It was bored. After several neighbors complained we all took a collection and made a simple demand to the owner: get rid of the bark or get rid of the dog. We now have a happily quiet neighborhood and the dog still lives a happy outdoor life.
Ignoring your neighbors' concerns is rude.
@bh-455602 - you seem to have missed the point of the article and the discussion. I didn't see anybody propose debarking dogs who "do minor barking". This is about excessive barking. I don't have any problem with my neighbors' dogs' occasional barking. But I don't think asking your neighbors to "get over it" or move if your dog barks all day and night is a reasonable solution. I also suspect few will consider shooting your neighbor a reasonable solution, suppressor or no suppressor.
What should be outlawed is ear crops and tail docking-IT is inhumane and wrong.It is a mockery to Gods creation......
The root of this problem is twofold. 1) People think they have the RIGHT to own animals when they have no business owning them.
I grew up out in the country and we had at least two dogs at all times and a myriad of cats. ALL were strays that people dumped. They lived good lives, running loose and enjoying themselves. When I grew up and moved to an urban area and over the course of my life (35 yrs) I've always been shocked at the number of people who think that having a big dog (even a medium sized dog) in an apartment or a little house with a tiny yard that gets a walk once a day is responsible ownership. I think it's cruel and no kind of existence. People keeping 50lbs + dogs in kennels all day while they are at work disgusts me. Get a Chihuahua. My kids have been begging for a dog for the last 4 years but I refuse to get one...our yard is too small.
2) Dumbass owners. The people who live next to us have two boxer-pit bull type dogs that bark hysterically anytime ANYONE tries to enjoy their own backyards. They bark viciously and have obviously not been socialized. They bark incessantly until you give up and go inside or the owner comes out and takes them inside. It's ridiculous. Again, if they would have socialized them properly as puppies we wouldn't be having these problems.
I don't believe in debarking, de-clawing, boxing ears, docking tails, or clipping wings. My boxers, however, came with their tails already docked so there wasn't much I could do there. I kept their ears natural and my bird has all his flight feathers. But back to the point at hand ... if anyone wants any type of animal in their life, they better be prepared for all the responsibility that goes along with it. That means proper training. The best way to teach your dog not to bark is to teach them to bark. I did this with my dogs. I also taught them to bark in certain situations. Specifically, my dogs only bark when: (1) I ask them too, (2) the doorbell rings or someone knocks on the door, and (3) I give them a hand-sign (I taught them this for when we were out in public and I felt threatened). If this doesn't work for you, seek out a professional or speak to you vet about non-surgical ways to address the issue/concern. A good vet is willing to work with you to keep you animal happy and healthy.
Now to all those that are complaining about a neighbors dog ... do any of you actually complain to the neighbor? If so, then report them. If they aren't willing to listen to you or show concern for the fact their animal is barking all day then they shouldn't own the dog! If after speaking to your neighbor nothing changes, look at the laws for your area. I had this happen to me. As a dog lover and owner I felt bad telling my neighbor that their dog barked all day. But I work from home sometimes and couldn't afford the distraction. When nothing changed, I contacted my HOA. After that the barking stopped. However, my local animal control told me there would have been other options had that not worked either. So do some research folks.
And for those who complain they now have to keep their dog locked up for 10+ hours a day ... take some responsibility. First off, 10+ hours without a bathroom break is just down right cruel. If you can't go home mid-day to let your animal outside, ask a neighbor you trust for help, a family member, offer to pay a neighborhood kid to help, or hire a professional dog walker. The dog can then go outside for a walk for 30 minutes a day and you may see a big change in their behavior since they now can use up some of that energy.
I'm always amazed at how cruel humans can be towards animals. Owning a pet is a HUGE responsibility and something that should not be undertaken unless you are willing to make a commitment to the pet. Snipping ears and tails is cruel; devocalizing is cruel; declawing is cruel; leaving a dog alone for hours on end is cruel, and allowing a dog to bark endlessly outdoors, particulary when you are at home, is cruel to both the pet and to your neighbors.
My family has had cats and dogs for 20 years. We currently own a golden retriever named Megan, and before her we had another golden retriever named Molly. Molly was with us for a remarkable 14 years and had to be put down. Our dogs and cats are like children to us, and we have the real kind of children as well. Someone is almost always with Megan, with the rare exception when we simply cannot take her, but even then, she's never left alone for more than 2 - 3 hours. We've rarely ever left a dog at home when we vacation, preferring to find places where dogs are allowed so we can bring them along with us.
If you can't love your pets like they are children or feel the need to alter your pets bodies, then you don't need to have a pet - period.
I have worked in the vet field for over 20 years. Debarking is not a common daily surgical procedure. I have assisted in maybe 10 during my career. The reason for doing this is so the owners didn't have to turn their beloved pet over to a shelter. The shelters have enough problems without adding more pets to them. It is not for lack of wanting the pet, but city ordiences play a factor into animal ownership. I had an elderly couple who owned an aging Springer spainel, due to health reasons they had to move into an assisted living home-they were allowed to keep their pet ONLY if it was debarked. These people made the best choice to keep their pet with them. We all know how stressful a shelter can be for an old animal and the likelihood of the dog getting a new home. People need to stay out of the AVMA's business and regulate their own lives. We have children being abused, people killing people, crime all over the place, and debarking is not a crimminal offense when performed in a vet hospital. Wake up America! PS-all of my cats are declawed and if I could, I would have my neighbor's dogs debarked because that is all I hear. I shouldn't have to move from home either.
I will support devocalizing dogs when parents will get behind devocalizing and muzzling their brats and putting them on leashes. Children are ten times more annoying than any dog could possibly be, and they have the nerve to think they have the right to act like that. (And this goes right up to about age 18.)
I have neighbors with dogs that bark...usually it's when they've been left outside by themselves for extended amounts of time. Dogs are social animals and need/crave human interaction. A dog is going to do what a dog does...if you can't deal with it, don't own one.
Agree with the poster above about cats...I believe it's inhumane to declaw them. It's their only defense!
Some of you people b*tching about "docking tails.." that practice is outlawed in Europe... I had the unfortanuate opportunity to sit near a dog that in the US has it's tail docked... OMG I was so bruised because it's tail was so big, muscular, and strong. I can't imagine some of the destructive tails that would be wagging. We circumsize babies penises but you're worried about a dog getting it's tail docked... wow.
I have never owned dogs but I would never consider this procedure-I am a cat person and I would never consider declawing either. I've seen cats that have been declawed -it takes away their ability to protect themselves and that has a detrimental effect on their personality. However having said THAT allow me to say THIS......Barking dogs can be a real pain-especially if you live next door to an owner who has no consideration for others. I never blame the animal-it is always the owner's responsibility. Seems like it is the animals who suffer because people refuse to be responsible pet owners.
If you never leave your pet alone for more than 2-3 hours, that is your business, but it is ridiculous to think that all other pet owners should do the same. I think that this procedure is inhumane, but please don't equate our devotion to our pets as that which we have for our children. I love my dog, but it is nowhere near as important as any of my kids. It sounds as if you have an attachment to your pets that is a little too strong. My dog will continue to stay at home (indoors) while I go to work and jump all over me when I get home. And it is her job to bark with her normal voice whenever she hears something out of the ordinary outside.
Wow, just wow. Kim, your dog needs BEHAVIORAL TRAINING! It's obvious she is stressed when you are not home, and debarking her will not keep her from having anxiety. In fact, she may feel more secure in the home without you. Set up a camera and find out. If she isn't barking, incessantly, it means it was a better choice, from the start. I can't believe you are a dog owner and not have done one scrap of research as to why your dog barks all day, when outside. You fall into the "lazy owner" category. I feel sorry for your poor dog.
Second, declawing is mutilation. Yes, I know several cats that are fine, but I also know many acts that are not. They developed arthritis, very early on, and for some, it permanently maimed them, giving them limps. Declawing should be outlawed. I got both my cats as adults, one was 9 and the other was 7 when I got them. They had never had their nails clipped before, but I managed to get them to put up with it. There are also groomers that will clip your cats' nails. If you don't want to put up with it, again "LAZY OWNER" category.
Don't get pets if you don't want to put their well-being in front of your desire not to be inconvenienced.
Un
Get a clue people... While I love my dog and do spend the time to make sure it's not an irritation to my neighbors, not everybody does. If the alternative is the dog gets put down because of a inconsiderate owner, which would you prefer? And dogs are like people; not every one will respond the same to training, you will end up with some that just won't stop no matter what you do. And declawing cats? Another thing that's sometimes needed with some animals. Unless you've had the joy of having your beloved pet destroy your furniture/drapes/windowsills in spite of all the 'training' and think that's acceptable, I suggest you STHU. For what it's worth, I've had cats declawed, live in the country where they have far more than dogs to worry about, and it just made them a bit more cautious (which probably extended their lives). The 'hunter cat' still brought home 'kills'. And I'll ask cat lovers to wrap their head around this; Britain has seen a huge decline in native birds in the last century and it's been attributed to house cats. A possible ecological disaster; does your 'love' of cats not extend to nature?
This is no different than the myriad other things humans do to animals; spaying/neutering, breeding for certain charactistics, raising them for meat, etc. Taking this thinking to it's logical conclusion (such as extremist groups like PETA), we'll end up like India only instead of cows we'll have packs of wild dogs and feral cats roaming when owners can't/won't train their pets...
The single most effective antidote to excessive barking is to take your dog for a walk every goddamm day. Yes. Simple. I could explain but better that you just do it.
I hate people that keep their dogs outside all day letting them bark for hours on end. You are a lousy dog owner if you do this. Yes dogs bark but your neighbors aren't the ones that wanted a dog you are. The neighborhood should not have to suffer nonstop barking. If you have one of these types of dogs you are a poor neighbor, bad dog owner and just an @!$%# in general. I am pretty liberal on the political spectrum as well. I have no idea what that has to do with anything though.
Honestly, debarking is a better option than being put down. People actually training their dogs would be even better.
So when are we banning spaying an neutering too? I don't see much difference.
it's funny how all sorts of things can be done to animals, and done legally,
there are so called humans that should have far more than "devoicing" and "declawing" done to them but they get to claim their civil rights are being violated.
if you have an animal, it's your responsibility to make sure the animals don't intrude on others lives,
but then the clowns will claim it's the bread and there's nothing that can be done,
but there is, stop allowing idiots to get animals they know nothing about, but got those animals because it was a fashion statement.
society has had the idea for decades that they can do what ever they feel like then when the consequences come around and bite them in the @$$, they want to cry and complain about how nothing is their fault.
For those of you that think my dog barks all day because she is bored, you are wrong. She is barking because I had the nerve to leave the house!!! If I go out front to check the mail she starts barking. If I go next door for a moment, she barks the whole time. If I walk my daughter to her car she barks. Even though there are other people in the house (yes, trying to get her to stop). She is super attached to me and is making it known in no uncertain terms that I am not allowed to leave her. Ever. For any reason. I am disabled so spend 99% of my time at home and she has free run of the house and yard. However, sometimes I have Dr appts or need to go places that dogs are not allowed. Therefore I have no choice but to lock her inside. She is spoilied rotten and goes with me anywhere she is allowed. When we go on vacation we take her. So for those of you who think I am being cruel to my dog, please I welcome your suggestions. Keep in mind though that I have already tried professional dog trainers and (cruel) shock collars. Another example of her "attitude", I have a 2 year old grandson with a severe case of brittle bone disease. The last time he came over to visit I had to lock my dog outside (if she pushes him down he could break a bone). He was only at my house for about an hour. Now my dog is 5 years old and completely housebroken. The second my grandson left and I let her back in the house, she went to the spot he had been playing and PEED ON THE FLOOR. She is possesive of me, plain and simple.
You're dog can bark all it wants. Just keep it inside and don't ruin your neighbor's quality of life because you can't train the thing. Simple as that. If you live on a farm then no big deal really. If you have close neighbors then you are a blight on them most likely and they don't like you.
Bark Bark Bark, (it's 2AM) Bark BARK, Yip Yip Yip Yip Bark bark Bark BARK....................
Kim I have a solution for you. Have your dog debarked.
Debarking is illegal in Europe, however in Germany there are heavy fines if a dog barks more than 20 minutes in a 24 hr. period. One of my relatives lived there and was fined the equivalent $500 for a first offence. I say don't punish the dog, punish the owners. Neighbors shouldn't be subjected to non stop noise.
@spencer, your neighbor's dog is bored. I had the same problem with my neighbor's dog. My solution....I threw raw bones over the fence, bought it toys and offered to keep the dog company at times and take if for a walk.....problem solved!
Cats claws don't keep neighbors awake all night. If you can't keep your dog's barking under control, then you shouldn't have a dog. Dog owners that let their dog out at night and leave it out there to bark it's head off shouldn't be allowed to own a dog.
Some people buy dead animals and eat them!! thereby promoting the slaughter of animals, but I'm sure you don't do that.
what can i do with the neighbors that lower my "quality" of life as if i had a life at all?
there are a lot of people that raise all the hell in the world over a dog that just begins to bark at someone walking down the street, and that's what a good dog is for,
because when that person who claims to be just walking down the street decides to turn into your yard and steal something, the dog is usually a good deterrent.
i have some neighbors i would like to get a nice lobotomy for.
i do like to have a nice juicy steak, pork chop, chicken leg once in a while, but you won't see me at the grocery store waiting to have rover filleted though.
I own six pit bulls, they don't bark all the time, but they do bark at stuff in general.
Garbage truck, horses (why I don't know), passing dogs, people that are not from the neighbor hood, and cars that are not from the neighbor hood.
In general dogs will bark for reasons usually starting with poor owners, or crazy hounds.
I love hounds, but I won't move because your dog keeps me up all night. You never hear 2 dogs barking, why because they are happy together, so do yourself a favor and get 2.
Why is it that some folks generalize their own experience to claim that it's absolute fact.
There is nothing wrong with having your cats declawed. We have always had are cats declawed, the toe is not removed only the nail and non of our cat acted like the were in pain after surgery. Also the were declawed because of the small children in the house and the cat were strictly inside cats. Small children can be rough on cats and don't mean to be, what's a cat reaction to being played rough with stratching. Now, less not turn and say well maybe you shouldn't have cats around small children, I'll nip that in the butt right now. It's more beneficial to have animals around children because it helps there learning process, responisiblity, caring for others, etc.
Anyway on to the dog barking. I don't know what my opinion is about the debarking. I have a large Siberian Husky, who lovvvvveeeeeeeeesssssssssss to sing and howl and bark. Yes it can be accessive at times when you have a headache or something. He is hardheaded and too smart for his own good and I do work with him everyday on training, most things can be put undercontrol. But a Husky bark is next to impossible to mastered undercontrol, if a Husky going to bark, he's going to bark, you learn to love it or don't buy a Husky. To debarking my puppy... It's bring tears to my eyes just thinking about not being able to hear the amazing song of his Husky howl again.
@Kim Citrowske. I have the same problem with my Husky. He is attached to me, he deffinitely does not bark because he is bored. He barks whenever I'm not there. Some dogs are just like that, no matter how much you train them. A dog has a personiality just like any human does you know and can be hardhead and self willed just the same.
there are so called humans that should have far more than "devoicing" and "declawing" done to them but they get to claim their civil rights are being violated.
Can't say I disagree with that statement, but there are jails for humans. A pet 'jail' (so-called shelters) is usually a death sentence...
if you have an animal, it's your responsibility to make sure the animals don't intrude on others lives
Again, a true statement. But getting local law enforcement to referee pet disputes is rarely high on their list of things they want/need to do. I used to have a neighbor who was a 'animal rights' activist, vegetarian, etc. She acquired a Wolf/dog hybrid as a 'pet' and was quite proud of it. It was a beautiful animal, but had the habit of every time it got loose it would roam the neighborhood and 'dominate' every other dog it saw, sometimes to the extent of chewing the hell out of them. It killed one of the smaller dogs, I had to take mine in once to get sewed up when mine was attacked in my own yard. Yes, 'authority' was called; but because it was dog-on-dog violence, all that was resulted was fines and a promise 'it wouldn't happen again'. Needless to say, it did happen again (and again), the 'dog' finally caught a fatal case of lead poisoning...
if a dog is barking continously, then it's a sign of a problem. Could be a host of issues. You need to figure out what the problem is, talk to you vet or find a good trainer. Peronally, I would not leave me dog alone for 10 hours, I have a dog walker. same with if there's some thing different going on in the neigborhood. currently, there is construction going on in front of my house and the dog is at a trusted friend for the week. Yes, I know this can cost, but if you can't afford to take care of a pet properly (and dogs require human contact or another dog), then you should probably look at a different type of pet. Personaly, I took a lot of time looking for a breed of dog that I could leave for a few hours, and set up a vet and dog sitter before actually bringing the dog home.
but you took your frustrations with the owner out on the dog,
it was the owner who should have had the consequences, not the dog, the dog was only acting on instinct.
it's the people who should be held accountable for what they let the animals they get do,
but of course society is full of clowns who claim it's the bread and not their own incompetence.
You answered your own comment about barking dogs with your first sentence. Why don't you 'speak' to your neighbors - in a reasonable, friendly way of course - about their dog? You seem to have a voice on this thread: use it. I hardly doubt that anyone would kidnap you and take you away to be devoiced. Debarking a dog is inhumane! It breaks my heart.
Declawing cats is also cruel and inhumane. I have three cats that are fully clawed and magnificent. I trained them to use "soft paws" (not my phrase but my ex-husband's) when they come into contact with human flesh. They totally understand and comply; it is a joy to watch.
And sure! declawed cats are 'strictly indoor cats.' They have no way to defend themselves out of doors. Have you ever really looked at the paws of a declawed cat? They are short and stubby, because the first knuckle is removed during the procedure! Did you think Veterinarians just grab each claw with tweezers and pluck it out?
Should we call for defingering the trolls that annoy us and mess up serious discussion on these threads? Think about it.
I am for debarking and have had my collies debarked. Collies, like other herding breeds, have a tendency to bark. I live on 3 mostly wooded acres and my nearest neighbor is over a hill. But they complained about my dogs barking even though they had been out only a short period of time. I DO NOT leave my dogs outside when I'm not home. In fact, they're inside most of the time even when I'm home because I like having them around me.
Behavior training or other training will NOT work for most barkers. Debarking is less invasive than spaying or neutering. It can be done one of two ways. Either from the outside or from the inside. Doing it from the outside is more invasive and involves shaving the neck, cutting it open, clipping the vocal cords and stitching up the opening. There's a long recovery period. Doing it from the inside involves running a very small instrument down the throat and snipping the vocal cords. The dog can go home after it wakes up from the anethesia. The dog's throat is a little sore for a short period of time just like it would be for someone who had their tonsils removed or dental surgery.
When a dog is debarked, they can still bark, but it is a muted bark so the dog isn't frustrated by not being able to communicate.
Although not against the law in my state (and I hope it will never be against the law) vets will not do debarks. I had to drive several hundred miles to another state for the debarks and spend the night in a motel with my 3 dogs. This was expensive but worth it to keep the neighbor from complaining.
IT IS NOT CRUEL TO HAVE DOGS DEBARKED. IT IS MORE CRUEL TO GET RID OF A DOG BECAUSE OF BARKING ONLY TO HAVE THAT DOG RETURNED AGAIN AND AGAIN TO SHELTERS, ETC. BECAUSE EACH OWNER COULDN'T GET THE DOG TO STOP BARKING. HAVING TO CHANGE HOMES OVER AND OVER IS MORE UPSETTING TO A DOG THAN BEING DEBARKED.
The above description is directly contrary to someone that actually LOVES the animal. If you LOVED the dog why you would you get one just to keep it isolated, bored and not train him, doesn't sound like love to me. Some people get animals for their own status symbol with real no concern for the animals, these are the people that de-bark dogs...
I agree with Lola. Although I have not had a dog debarked, I have had cats declawed and I had a ferret who had to have her tail docked (due to cancer). Extreme people will yell and scream and use scare tactics that are designed to get themselves heard, while the many people with actual experience will remain quiet due to the bullying done by the extremists. In the United States, animals are considered property. They are owned by their people and while I think every animal has a right to a good life, that good life sometimes has to be altered so that it can co-exist with its owners, neighbors and others.
I have always thought devocalization of animals is totally cruel and inhumane. I had a neighbor devocalize his dog just because one of his neighbors was complaining about the barking. Personally, to expect a dog not to bark, it's like expecting a human being not to talk. That's the way they communicate! It should be against the law!
WALK and EXERCISE your doggies...it creates a better owner/dog emotional bond, it burns up their excess nervous energy, and it's good for both your health and your dogs.
Try taking them for at least one good, long, fast walk every day - 40 minutes, or if they are little dogs, about 1 to 1.5 miles (drive the walking route first and note your odometer reading). Or do two 25 minute walks each day. If your dog(s) are strong and aggressive pullers, use a Gentle Leader head halter collar or a Sporn anti-pull body harness. Each about 20 to 35 dollars, by breed size.
Dogs just get cabin fever if they rarely get out of the yard and house - they have instinctive primal needs to walk and explore and mark and sniff their immediate neighborhood. Remember, they are domesticated wolves in doggie bodies. Wolves constantly roam around to "inspect" their packs' territory perimeter.
Lastly, get anti-bark collars. The static shock types of the better brands, like PetSafe, have control program chipsets that humanely train the dog to not bark. Dogs can still play-growl, yip and whine, and they can perform a bark or two before the collar starts to correct them with static electricity pulses. I tried the collar out against my own throat, made a loud "bark" sound and was satisfied that these are not cruel; the shocks were not so much painful, as just unpleasant and surprizing - this distracts the dog from his barking. I have two little dogs, the collars keep them reasonable and quiet when I go to work, they play and romp happily all day wearing them. If they hear something that makes them want to bark, they will whine or yip quietly...occaisionally, one or two barks - then the zap from the collars shuts them up. They are not scared or repressed-acting with the collars on. Never place a collar on them in an angry way (huge mistake - collar fitting must be a neutral, calm activity). They make a very small breed collar unit, too. These tiny PetSafe collars are about 80 dollars, and worth it. The battery modules last for at least six months, and are water resistant for outdoor dogs (not rated for full immersion/swimming, though).
I can't believe how riled up some people can get. A barking dog is no reason to threaten to shoot either the dog or a person. Calm down, and have some perspective. A barking dog is usually the result of an irresponsible owner, either failing to train the dog properly or keep it inside. Or exercise it adequately. A tired dog is always a good dog. Luckily, debarking, and declawing, is slowly falling out of favor. This article makes more of an issue than there truly is. While I don't like either procedure and would never put any of my pets through it, I understand that in extreme cases, where the person must do it to keep their animal, it is the lesser of two evils.
My family also breeds dogs and has known Charlotte McGowan for many years. We were the 2nd house on our street in a rural NY town. Then when everyone else built around us all they complained about was hearing the dogs bark. Nevermind that they knew they were building right next to a kennel with 20 dogs in it. Then these tards started calling the cops and creating problems, so the dogs got debarked. I can assure you, if a dog is experiencing problems after debarking, sue your vet because they botched the job. All they need to do is scrape the cords while they are under anesthetic and thats it. Over the years, and a hundred dogs later I never had one case of an animal in pain as a result of trying to bark, never had an animal that had a problem tearing through a bowl of food, or develop some complication down the line as a result of debarking and that is over 40 years. It literally feels like a sore throat to them for a few days. We give them some pain meds then they are fine, and in most cases, their bark comes back to some extent within a few years. I have never had a dog resist the urge to bark because of being debarked. They are just as happy as they could possibly be. When I open the gate and they all run up and want to play, and they bark their softened bark and carry on like they do, tails going 100mph, am I supposed to take that as they are SUFFERING as a result of what was done to them? PLEASE... It just takes the high end out of their bark to make other people happy who would otherwise gladly sue you and put you out of your chosen profession. If the lib-tards behind this want to do something positive, then go shut down the puppy mills that generate thousands of genetically inferior, unhealthy mutts every month in wire cages that cut their feet. See that cute doggie in the window at the mall? Guess where it came from? The puppy mills in the midwest...thats where. Find something useful to spend your time on.
Steph it's not just the nail if it was just the nail they would grow back, how do I know? I clip my cats nails if they get too sharp. My sister ripped her nail bed out once, this is a woman who had four children with no painkiller and she was screaming and they had to reattach it or her nail would never grow back again. That's what they do to cats except they aren't ripped out quite so violently they are cut off. I trained my cat to use a scratching post. I also have young children, they have learned to not hurt the cats, that is how you teach them to care, YOU teach them not the cats. Who helped your learning process if you don't know the difference between "are" and "our" and "there" and "their" by the time you're an adult? I don't know about dog debarking but my dog stops barking if I say stop because I taught her to.
A dog's "right" to bark incessantly and keep me awake night after night, week after week is NOT more important than my right as a homeowner and taxpayer to get a good night's sleep.
I support debarking. I support shock collars. And I understand why some people poison annoying dogs.
Declawing cats is just cruel.
So, if my neighbor's kid is constantly screaming/ crying/ making a lot of noise, I can ask them to cut their vocal chords to "reduce friction between neighbors"?! What a cruel & barbaric custom, I hope it becomes outlawed everywhere! Declawing cats and shaping dog's ears surgically should also be outlawed.
The only dogs I've ever known who bark nonstop (besides protective, aggressive little untrained tiny dogs) are dogs who are left outside alone all day. If I leave my dog outside in our fenced yard all day, you can bet he'd be barking up a storm! All the nieghbors have dogs and they all bark at each other, so when they start barking too much we all bring our dogs inside, or let them all play together for a while and they are satisfied. Dogs get BORED, how would you feel if you were outside behind a fence, all day every day, by yourself? You would probably talk to yourself out of boredom, or yell to other neighbors who are also trapped in their yards. Our dog stays inside, in the laundry room with his kennel and a million toys while we are at work and you know what he does? SLEEP. We avoid things that cause him anxiety (like being actually locked in his kennel, hence the laundry room is his room while we are gone) and we make sure if he is boredom barking we do something about it. Only irresponsible people have dogs who bark so much they disturb the neighbors. Period. If you can't train your dog not to bark, keep the dog in your house and take it on walks. Problem solved. And if its nighttime, the first bark that comes out of your dogs mouth in your yard, you bring that dog back inside because your neighbors are trying to sleep! Thank God everyone in my neighborhood is smart.
Docking dog's ears is just weird. Tails can make sense- those tails can take out a toddler's eye! Plus, dogs look way cute with floppy ears.
I have never declawed a cat, but I have always had indoor/outdoor cats, and you cannot declaw an outdoor cat. My parents lived in a big city though so their cats stayed inside, they were declawed and perfectly happy and healthy and lived to old ages. I wouldn't do it personally, and its not impossible to train a cat not to scratch your furniture, but its kind of like the tail docking thing. Not totally necessary but very helpful in many cases.
LMAO with this article..its like saying..I CAN'T FART IN FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE!
Wow, let's reconnoiter folks. Killing unborn babies? Any objections? None. Okay then, devocalizing dogs? Objections? Well then it's No-Go on devocalizing dogs! Seriously, a dog can yip and bark to irritate everyone ... especially neighbors like me ... and it's NOT okay to shut the little critter up? Isn't there such a thing as "repulsive rights" because yipping little dogs or those bark-all-night ones ... if they don't learn otherwise then PLEASE waste another $2000-$3000 on your precious housepet and make some vet even happier with your phobias!
Contradict yourself much?
You can't train a dog not to bark, you can't teach a negative. What I do with my dog is give him lots of exercise so that he doesn't have the energy to bark all day. Also I give him daily strict routine and firm domestic boundaries so he feels more confident.
Most barkers are stressed animals that are dealing with a lot of nervous energy coupled with instability and boredom. Problem barkers are owned by ignorant or irresponsible owners. The owners are the ones that need the training.
You can't blame the dog!!
I volunteer at an animal shelter and I'd never heard of debarking. Never had one come in like that. never met a de-barked dog.
My first reactions to this was 'Hell no! No, no, NO!'
Then I started reading some of the posts on here, from those who advocate it and those who don't. From those who've had it done and those who have the same knee-jerk reaction I had.
The animal shelter i volunteer for is a high-mortality, high traffic inner-city shelter. We take in 12,000-15,000 animals a year in cooperation with Animal control, and one of the more common complaints we getis a barker--I worked a year on Animal Control's operator/dispatch switchboard and as a VDHB (Vicious Dog Hearing Board) case recorder and have volunteered for the last five years.
Barking was one of the most common nuisance calls (and was pretty far down the list to be answered; police emergencies always come first.) As a neighbor with dogs that do bark almost incessantly, I can empathize with the frustration, though not with the desire to kill the dog; I've had to restrain myself from going to talk to that neighbor because I am positive such a talk will bring no results--the neighbors have people coming and going at all hours of the night which makes me think thy're into the drug underworld.
However, for a good owner who loves their dog and has done everything they can to make sure that their pet is happy, healthy and comfortable within their capacity to make it, I can see how this would be considered a viable choice. Out of the 15,000 animals my shelter gets every year, we consider it a good year if we get 300 adopted. Over 500 is an excellent year. So anything that keeps an animal from ending up at a shelter (from my point of view) is a good thing, from rescues to craigslist. The majority of animals who come into our shelter don't get adopted. If debarking is the absolute LAST resort to giving up your dog ONCE YOU HAVE EXHAUSTED EVERY OTHER AVAILABLE OPTION (from doggie daycare to a petsitter to having a neighbor come over and walk it...then yes, I would say its OK. Might not like it, but I could see that happening..
However, once you get it done that dog should never leave you, no matter what. If you give up your debarked dog for adoption and the next owner abuses it, how is the dog going to bark enough to let people know they are being abused? (example-got a call from police one night, someone thought a child was being abused in an apartment because they heard screaming, turns out it was a dog, pug beagle mix, being molested by her owner, if she had not screamed, no one would have ever known.)
If you think there is the SLIGHTEST chance that you will ever have to surrender your dog for adoption, don't do it. At all. Just like declawing cats--if you declaw a cat you are changing it to suit the environment you put it in. if you surrender it for adoption it could potentially be going to an environment to which it is no longer suited and will be unable to defend itself.
Spaying and neutering makes sense because you don't want uncontrolled breeding, and there are too many strays and unwanteds in shelters. Not to mention which, if you have two and they have puppies and the puppies get regnant by their father, you're going to have huge problems because they are inbred. To equate this to debarking is indicating you don't have a really good understanding of spay/neuter.
Docking tails and ears is not something I have ever advocated. they are what we made them to be. if you want a tailless dog then start selectively breeding them for shorter and shorter tails, like Manx cats. I have two Minature Pinschers at home, both rescues, one with tail and ears, one with cropped ears and docked tail. When I first brought home the docked dog she sniffed all over the intact dog, then sat down and examined her own little stumpy tail, and she looked confused. Added to that, tail position and ear position are an integral part of a dog's body language, and I can read my intact dog much, much better than I can read my cropped/docked dog--potty training was a breeze with the intact dog and difficult with the docked dog.
I would say I am decidedly against debarking, and it should only happen if it is the only option to save a dog's life (i.e. keep it from being surrendered to a shelter.) However, if you as the owner decide it is necessary, remember that once you take away that dog's main method of communication, you are responsible for being that dog's voice for the rest of its life.
I own a Dobe. It is my fifth one. They can be barky because they were bred to be 1. territorial and 2. on guard. I don't leave my dog out for hours at a time. There are two main reasons he barks. The first reason is all the other dog owners in my subdivision and the next one have to walk their dogs right past my house to get to the park to exercise their dog. Well they don't HAVE too but they do. Almost everyone here has a dog. One lady walks her dog past my house 8 times a day. (4 out and 4 back to her house) The next biggest reason for his barking is because two families of idiots bought their kids motor scooters and ATVs. They ride past my home as many as 40 times a day (NO I AM NOT EXAGGERATING). I have found out that the three households that b!tch about my dog barking are the ones that cause most of the barking. I have to put up with their motor scooters, ATVs, car stereos thumping, driveway basketball courts, pools full of kids screaming, backyard ice rinks, ringing my door bell and running away, monthly garage sales, trampolines, park-size swing-set/forts, 7AM and 9 PM lawn mowing, months of fireworks, scavenger hunts, door to door raffles/cookies/candy/popcorn fund raising, AND THEIR FRIGGEN DOGS BARKING!
DoobyDoo-2977330, this is what not to do. You're suspended for a week for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
...
TonyinWyo, see that second part of #1.
The argument in the article that debarking is a last resort for owners that love and want to keep their pets is pretty sound. I love animals, my cats have their claws and I have never debarked a dog. That doesn't mean I don't respect the feelings of other people who are offended by living next door to an annoying barking dog. Dog owners should have the option to debark. At the very least, fines should be high. Also, people who play their stereos too loud after 9 pm should be de-stereoed or forced to wear headphones.
Devoice humans before they debark a dog.. most of the chit from humans comes out of their mouths..all of the chit from dogs comes out of their rear end!
So much BS talk going on in this world these days..I wouldn't be suprised if a person sues someone in court for breathing the same air space on the street as they were!
Well, when you can't get any sleep because your dog barks all night regardless of training you might start to consider things you never would have before. We finally got a shock collar for our dog(I hated that) but fortunately she was smart enough to know after only being shocked ONCE to be quiet when it was put on. We took the battery out and she never knew the difference. Lived to a ripe old age of 16, fat and happy.
Come near my dogs with that crap and I'll f'ing rip your vocal chords out. I don't know why humans feel the need to hurt innocent creatures when so many humans need a bullet in the brain to clean the gene pool.
With that said, dogs that bark constantly need new owners, ones that actually give a crap about them. Not like the neighbor behind me that keeps his dog chained outside 24/7 regardless of snow, below freezing temps, etc. It breaks my heart to hear that poor dog whine, all he wants is some attention. Regrettably there is crap I can do, short of stealing the dog.
@John Bean above me,
Bark collars are a good way to go. We moved from a rural area into town and thought about buying some for our dogs just in case, but luckily ours are fine aside from the usual barking when we get home from work, or sirens, etc.
probably not a good idea to try that ordeal with me AlexM-2364525.
i have two neighbors with dogs that bark incessantly when outside. hell, one you can even hear when she's inside.
put them out and, oh yeah, they will bark their friggen heads off for as loooooooooooooooooong as they are outside.
do the owners care or respond ? no.
ps. im both a dog and a cat lover.
pps. another good tip for idiots, please don't let your cats roam freely into my yard to attack the chipmunks living in and around my firewood stacks. those are my chipmunks, same goes for the rabbits living in my yard....i'll let "my" hawk have his/her pick of things, but thats as far as it goes.
We have our rights in America ONLY if my exercising of my rights DO NOT infringe upon the rights of others. That is to say: I have the right to have a dog for a pet as long as that pet does not infringe upon the rights of my neighbors to have peace and quiet (from my INCESSANTLY barking dog) or the rights of my neighbors to have safety (from my DANGEROUSLY VICIOUS attacking pit bull) who bit 5 people last year alone.
ANY incessantly barking dog needs to be quieted in ANY manner necessary to accomplish quiet and ANY dog who incessantly bites people needs to be stopped by ANY manner necessary to accomplish the safety of the public.
When it is MY pet causing others distress of any kind, I will voluntarily take the necessary action to STOP the problem because I love PEOPLE more than I love PETS. (This is the right way for everyone to be in society)
If someone lives on an island with no neighbors, they can let their dog bark all he wants to - no one will hear the thing except their sleepless owners)
They are both surgical solutions to certain inconveniences of keep dogs so they are indeed equivalent. However you have to justify the cutting off of dog genitals since you implicitly support it by working at a shelter. You therefor try to draw a weak distinction between the two and accuse anyone who draws the logical conclusion that they are equivalent of being ignorant.
@dave-#####
I don't really care who you are, my dogs are my kids and I'll protect them as such.
As far as your neighbor's dogs, like I said, there are many 'healthy' ways to deal with a dog that barks without cutting into them.
Next, I guess if you don't like your dog running, you can just cut the legs off?
And that whole buying food and feeding, just cut the stomach out?
This is just like abortion, inconvenient, don't want to deal with it, just cut it out.
Such a lack of humanity from supports of this with dogs.
Use a SHOCK COLLAR!
They will learn not to bark quickly!
Once they stop barking take it off and when they start put it on.........they will get the message quick.
In 1979, when this was a new thing, I had a miniature German Schnauzer that was fine until I left for work. I lived in an apt. and was constantly called by the mgr about his barking and howling like a coyote. Finally I was told I would be evicted if I didn't do something about it. A vet talked me into debarking him and said it was a painless and harmless procedure. Being young and new on a job I went for it. When I went to pick him up he was in a wire cage, soaked and looked near death to me. I grabbed the vet by the neck and backed him up against a counter and did all but kick his ass. I picked up my dog and left without paying. He never asked for it and was killed by somebody 6 months later (not me!).
That said, once my dog healed up, he didn't know the difference and was quite entertaining when somebody knocked or whatever, and I didn't get evicted.
Would I do it again? Not a chance in hell.
I personally wouldn't declaw a cat or devoice a dog. I do understand why people might do it. Prohibiting declawing and devoicing will result in more animals being taken to shelters. That usually means euthanasia if the cat or dog isn't a purebred or very young.
I am a cat rescuer that is lucky to have my own home and the freedom that comes with it. It hasn't always been that way. I know what it's like to live in expensive cities with low vacancy rates and shortages of affordable housing. Some people can't "just move."
I am covered in scratches, not because my cats are mean but because they are predators with ripping claws at the end of their paws and of course I have a lot of them.
Pet owners and potential pet owners need to be educated about exactly how declawing or debarking is done. If it comes down to surrendering a pet under threat of eviction or the cat is injuring the baby, I think that those options should be available.
One of our neighbours has a dog that barks incessantly, mostly into the night. Never heard of debarking before but it sounds better than a bullet (which I would never do, of course, but imagine someone who can't sleep because of the noise might be tempted to deliver). :-)
I AM an animal activist but with common sense. I also can't stand the barking all the time. I have a neighbor whose dog would bark for 8 hours straight on Sundays, the last day to sit outside and get some sunlight (and I work, on a laptop, outside as much as possible-very bad Vit D test results).
Around here, you are not allowed to let you dog bark more than 15 minutes of every hour. The question is-do you want to be the big bad wolf who calls Animal Control?
movinonout, in case like your I would, or maybe I like really, really loud music in the late evenings and night time.
I have "de-barked" a few nuisance dogs. A small lead projectile administered at a high velocity works very well!
Tonyin Wyo, you are a very digusting human being, a small lead projectile into your brain for stupidity. HORE
DoobyDoo, you are a troll.
If a person's dog is barking and I can hear it it is an invasion of my privacy. If it so loud or of such a length as to be irritating then it is a violation of my right to peace and quiet and quality of life.
dogs that are left to bark during the night while neighbors try to sleep is just plain wrong and in some jurisdictions, against the law. Where I live you can file a complaint with the city, if the barking doesn't stop the complaint can go all the way to a judge who can order the pet removed from the home. So, I guess the choice is with the dog owner...quit leaving your dog out at night to disturb your neighbors, or have a judge take it out of your home and you never get to see your pet again. I've seen de-barked dogs and they still bark, its just not as loud...and please....dogs don't communicate with humans with barks...that is just something they instinctively do...people today place their pets comforts above humans...sad sad sad...in other parts of the world ...dogs are not glorified or pampered like they are in the USA. They are animals.....not humans!
It's very humane. The US government uses that technique all the time on people; especially overseas.
I think true problem barkers are rare but they exist-barks at the moon,barks out of boredom,barks because it likes to hear the echo of its own voice--
could also be barking to another dog that is too distant for people to hear but they can hear each other farther away than people can--
debarking worse than putting the animal down?
It is reasonable to bark at something out of the ordinary like a person coming onto the property at night or a raccoon snooping around the next house over--
I am a dog lover. I love dogs from tiny little chihuahuas to hulking great danes. I even love the barking, particularly the playful barks and the barks that let me know when an intruder is attempting to invade my home.
What I don't like is the endless, mindless yapping of my neighbor's dog every time I go into my backyard for even five seconds. I've lived this house all my life, practically, and my grandparents who were the original family on the street where I live. Things were fine up until about three years ago when these SoCal types moved in next to us. If it were just wild parties every week that clog up the once quiet sleepy little street we live on with cars from one end of the cul-de-sac to the other, I wouldn't think much of it. But no, they also have this yappy little rat dog that they leave outside every day, all day. You would think, after about 6 months, the dog would have figured out that it's normal for people who live on the other side of the fence to go into their own backyard and never once approach the fence for any particular reason. OH NO. NO NO No nonononononono.... this little son of a bitch has to practically attack the fence the moment we step onto our own sidewalk, even when we're not in sight yet, such as it is through the very small slats seperating each fence board by approximately 1 inch apart.
It used to be my bedroom was in the room that overlooked the fence. I spent most of my time at home in that room for many years until I moved out, then moved back in when the economy went to crap and I went back to college on my grandfather's suggestion that I get my degree. I put up with that dog barking outside my window for a solid year; it was distracting, aggravating, many mornings waking me up much too early. If it wasn't the dog, it was the mexican yard service mowing my neighbors' lawn at 7 in the morning. So.... I put up with this endless barking for a year, as I said, then moved into a different room as a last resort (as opposed to utilizing a pellet gun). That silenced the dog by putting some distance between my window and it's favorite places to bark and growl needless. Does that dog still attack the fence every time we go into our own backyard? Yeah, hell yeah it does. It's pretty brave for some bizarre scottish terrier shih-tzu mix. There was a time it dug under the fence and came into our yard, trying to bite our ankles. When we hollered at it, it rushed back under the fence and resumed its frenzied barking while we blocked the hole off with some bricks.
So would I have this dog debarked? Yes I would. I would most certainly. I would also have its owners flogged for neglecting it and making it sit outside in the South Texas heat and humidity all day, every day. In the end, I realized I'd rather not hurt the dog because it's as much a victim as I am by its owners. Having it debarked doesn't impair its life, doesn't diminish the quality of it, but it does prevent me from aggravation and irrationally player hating the dog.
I don't care if people have obnoxious dogs, cats, etc. Just don't inflict them on me. The owners should have their asses kicked for allowing them to be a nusiance. It is a poor neighbor indeed that doesn't realize we don't all share their love for their stupid animals. Fences do make good neighbors. You should not have to sell out and move over someone being inconsderate. I called animal control over a constantly barking dog and then my neighbors hated me. I ask them to keep it under control and calling animal control was a last esort.
We had neighbors like that in RI, MrJ. Two dumb dobermans who apparently thought, we, who lived there since those two dogs were born, were intruders on our own property every day. If my dog attempts to bark at our neighbors I tell her to stop and she does but I know she still wants to for some reason. We need stricter laws in this country and start fining people who break them. If your dog or dogs are outside all day every day barking you should be fined and have them removed after enough problems.
My cat, Camie, is an incessant "talker". But, in the 10 years that I have had her for my pet (the result of my son's divorce) I have taught her to be quiet by going, "Shhhh". She's just like a kid, however, needing to be told "Shhhh" two or three times. If she doesn't stop, sometimes I just ignore her and she will eventually go away. Sometimes, I just give her more and more affection. Sometimes, I chase her out of my bedroom where I am generally working on my computer.
Another thing she has learned are the words "OK, Camie. Time to go!" at which time she grumbles and races out of the room. The reason I want her out is that her cat-box is by the washer and dryer and her food is in the kitchen and I always lock the door to my bedroom (the same lock as on an entrance door to a house) when I leave my property.
Another thing she has learned is to come when I call her. The reason is that I ALWAYS have a treat for her or given her fresh food and water.
I not so sure about dogs being "debarked" but I know some people I would be glad to see have the procedure. Romney comes to mind first.
Whatever else McGowan says, the fact that she thinks that neutering or spaying animals is just for human convenience tells me she really has little clue what she's talking about. Just because she is a breeder doesn't mean she knows much about animals, either. I've known a few breeders, and I would say only one I knew actually cared a lot about the animals and didn't just see dollar signs. I have seen unwilling female dogs bred to their fathers because the breeder didn't take time to find out who was who, dogs bred until they were exhausted and ill to make a buck, and yes, I can see if a breeder didn't want to deal with a barker that surgery would happen.
I am NOT saying all breeders are like that, but can you believe that a person who says she has done this for 40 years doesn't know all the reasons why dogs/cats are neutered or spayed???? It isn't just for human convenience, isn't cruel, and isn't at all the same as debarking. Amazing. Check out breeders before you buy. See if they play with the animals in a home setting or have tons of animals all stuck in kennels that are crowded or unclean. See if they have knowledge of basics regarding the animal they breed (as McGowan doesn't seem to have if she thinks what she said) and really care about them, and if they breed too many a year for the resources they have.
And debarking...I hate to hear dogs bark on and on, but I wouldn't want to see that done to them:(
I raised and showed dogs for many years, and had a few debarked during that time. It doesn't STOP them from barking, it just lowers the vocal range. You would be able to hear your dog barking in your house, and maybe even in your yard if you had a window open. But your neighbor 3 streets over isn't going to hear them. That's the benefit of debarking.
In todays world it's hard to have a place out in the middle of nowhere to raise animals, and debarking makes for happier neighbors. When the town came in to check my kennel for my license the dog officer commended me for having some debarked.
Ram, I knew Charlotte McGowan years ago, and she's a fine woman and a conscientious breeder who cares for all animals. What she was saying is that both procedures, debarking and neutering can be seen as being convenient for humans, by a person who thinks along those lines. While a person thinking about the benefits of the animal would see that both procedures benefit the animals.
Would you rather spay/neuter your animal or keep them in during their heat cycles. and deal with all that, knowing also that Un-neutered animals can be subject to various illnesses and cancers that would be alleviated if they were neutered? Would you rather be yelling at a barking dog, or reprimanding them continually if they are a "barker" or have them debarked and not have the noise irritating you or the neighborhood.
I've had dogs that barked at "Important" things. Birds flying overhead, leaves falling from the trees, etc. THOSE are the kind of dogs that debarking benefits.
There is never any excuse to debark a dog or “demeow” a cat nor to declaw one. It is inhumane. If you don’t like their sound, don’t get one or if it’s too late for that, find them a home with someone who doesn’t mind. If your neighbor has one that annoys you, they should find a way to deal with it other than surgically. And to equate spay/neuter to such a horrific act is sheer stupidity, there is a huge difference between not allowing them to reproduce and create a situation where they are homeless and starving vs. taking away their ability to communicate. I have a Lab. who thinks barking is the greatest thing in the world but he has been taught that he can only have that fun in certain circumstances so it is more than possible to teach them.
There are humans I find annoying either because of the sound of their voice or they talk too much but it would be rather inhumane for me to have them “devoiced,” not to mention illegal.
Your comments are exactly what I was thinking, right down to the knowledge of "breeders". I've been working with others on banning sales of pups and kittens in pet stores or, at least, those from puppy mills. Heck yeah we know how much paperwork doctoring will be done if this passes, and how many more "breeders" will do half-assed "breeding" to supply puppies for what the puppy mills charged.
Janine, an unspayed female dog can develop a life-threatening condition called pyometra which is an infection in one or both horns of the uterus. Spaying a dog to prevent estrus is a preventative measure. Also, for male cats (at least) the possession of testes can make the pet much more likely to develop urinary crystals which can lead to kidney stones, bladder stones, blocked urethra or even reach a point where the opening of the bladder is so damaged that catheterization doesn't prevent urinary retention and can lead to kidney failure.
I used to work for an emergency vet and saw female dogs brought in because of pyometra and an EMERGENCY spay. I HAD a male cat who developed the problems I described and we had to put him to sleep because surgery could not correct his problem and he WOULD have died a long, agonizing death from kidney failure. There are VALID medical reasons to spay/neuter - besides not wanting to overpopulate the world with dogs and cats. The fact that a BREEDER is not aware of these issues - even if you say she is a "a fine woman and a conscientious breeder who cares for all animals" - says to me that the breeder is NOT interested in the welfare of animals and doesn't know ANYTHING about veterinary issues.
There is NEVER a medical reason to "debark" a dog (or "demeow" a cat) and rarely one to declaw a cat on one of the toes. There is NEVER a medical reason to declaw a cat on ALL TEN front toes.
How are spaying and neutering NOT for convenience of the owners? Have you ever heard a female ask to be spayed or a male ask to have his testicles chopped off? Spaying and neutering is so that the owners don't have to take any actions to ensure their female/male isn't bred. There are other means of ensuring they aren't bred besides making them undergo this invasive surgery.
@Gail
If it doesn't work with liberal human females why would you think it would be different with their "pets"?
Er, Gail, the only other means I know of would be to keep my [indoor-only, big city] cat locked up indoors to remain in heat for long periods of time. As Cat above notes about dogs, this could render her subject to very high risks of life-threatening infections and hormone-dependent cancers. I also imagine that it would be psychologically frustrating for her. Perhaps there is a hormone treatment I haven't heard of that would bring her out of heat whenever she went in, but I imagine it too would have cancer risks - and while she likes the vet just fine, she doesn't like the drive to the vet, so she'd probably not rather have a lot of extra vet visits. Quite a few humans voluntarily get their tubes tied because they know they do not want the physical burdens and other costs of spending their whole lives cranking out litters of kittens ... er, babies. My cat seems happy enough without it.
Gail ... you obviously didn't read what I wrote. An unspayed and unbred bitch can develop a LIFE-THREATENING CONDITION called Pyometra which is an INFECTION in one or both horns of the uterus. The ONLY treatment for it is an emergency SPAY - which in itself is a risky procedure when the uterus of a dog is inflamed either via pyometra or estrus. The uterus becomes very friable - meaning that it is easily ruptured. I observed emergency spays when I was working at an emergency vet.
An unaltered male can develop urinary issues that can lead to kidney failure and a long, painful death. I had a cat who was unaltered and developed a functional issue at the opening of the bladder and he had to be put to sleep because NO surgery would correct the problem. But if he had been neutered when he was younger, it WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED and would have had a long, healthy life instead of dying at the age of 3 1/2.
But go ahead and tell yourself that it's all about "the convenience of the owners" and not about preventing health issues in a pet. You just expose a lack of knowledge that way.
Gail, yes i have. Sometimes having those organs raises chances of a serious illness or medical condition. My mother is currently in the process of getting her "organs" removed because she is at an extremely high risk of developing cancer in them, which has been determined from family history.
Cats and dogs also have problems with their reproductive organs. I had both my cats spayed because it raises risks of certain cancers for them to go in to heat and not breed
Cat. that is exactly what I said about neutering yor pets. There are medical benefits to having it done.
While there may not be a "medical" benefit for debarking it could certainly relieve your neighbors nerves and your own. The dogs are NOT silenced. They STILL bark. It's just that the volume is turned down.
Mrs McGown is NOT the kind of breeder you have had the misfortune to encounter. She is an eminent judge and ethical breeder and certainly an expert on canines and their breeding. Not all dogs bark. Many howl as do my own. It is as natural to them as singing is to a bird. However, not everyone wants to hear a couple of northern breed dogs spontaneously engage in a 5 or 10 minute "concert". The process of de-barking is safe and entirely humane in that the through-the-mouth method merely snips one of the vocal chords in order to change the vibration from equal to uneven. The result is that resonance and volume are diminished and not eliminated. They still can howl but not loud enough to be heard outside their home or kennel. Most dogs can eat kibble the same day as the surgery. The other method (through-the-throat) severs both chords and silences the dog. I have a rescue dog that had that operation before I got him and he still makes a sound but it's very soft. In my state, the procedure is banned except when it is determined by a Veternarian that its necessary to save the life of the dog. Given that disputes with neighbors over dogs can escalate to law suits or unlawful acts of violence against dogs, it's clear that having dogs voices modified so that the don't have to be dumped into pounds and euthanized is a life-saving solution. My state adopted the anti-debarking law several years ago and planned to implement it by having owners check a box on their license applications. When folks pointed out that the towns would have an influx of surrendered dogs, the NEVER EVEN PUT THE BOX ON THE LICENSE FORM. Obviously, there are no practical or preferred enforcement of these knee-jerk statutes.
I can attest to the medical problems with having an unaltered female dog. We adopted one of my b-i-l's dogs after his death and the dog was not altered. We made the decision to get her spayed and in the process discovered many tumors which left untreated would have went into her chest cavity and killed her. yes they were pre-cancerous. Her mother died from cancer and you guessed it, not altered. It isn't cruel to have your dogs spayed and neutered, you are being responsible and making your pets life happier. No more hormone driven angst looking for a quickie in the alley, no more having to wear doggie diapers because of the mess, no puppies from questionable matings (which could kill the dog if the male was too big and now the puppies are too big).
As for the docking of tails, I asked a friend one time why doberman's have their tails docked and she told me that they have fragile tails that can break just by wagging and hitting something hard. I don't think all breeds need to be docked (thinking of poodles) and not sure what reason there is for the clipping of the ears but wouldn't jump to the conclusion that ALL breeds would fall under that cruelty line. There are people out there that are against taking the dew claws off. I didn't and now I wish to He** I had. They have no real purpose after puppy hood except to get caught in stuff. After you've had to take your dog into the vet because the dew claw got caught in a screen door track and is now hanging partially out and you'd jump on that wagon too. It probably isn't a problem for all breeds but Chinese Cresteds absolutely should be dew claw free. FYI cresties use their claws like fingers and I have yet to see my crew use theirs for anything.
I think maybe you are missing the point of the breeder. She was saying that all medical procedures benefit the owners and some only benefit the animals. Sure spaying/neutering benefit both the animal and owner by elementing unwanted matings and many diseases for both sexes. But declawing cats and debarking dogs have benefits such as keeping them out of shelters. Even cliping a dogs ears can benefit the dog by eleminating/reducing ear infections that droppy ear dogs can have. Sure cleaning them helps, but some dogs will have bad infections no matter what.
As for other procedures such as tail docking, depending on the breed, were necessary for the dogs health. Such as rotweillers were first breed to pull carts, removing the tails kept them from getting cought in the wheels of the carts. Do they still need to dock rotweiller tails now days? I don't think so. But is part of the standard to doc the tails and remove their dew claws. This is done when the puppies are very young.
Getting back to the subject, debarking can stop the problem, I don't see anything wrong with it. Because training the dog is not the problem, training the owner is. Most people think they have trained their dogs have no clue what a well trained dog is. But that isn't going to stop them from owning dogs. Owners who do have their dogs debarked are at least responsible enough to do something that will allow them to keep their dogs. I think the ones that take the dogs to the shelter are worse.
I have the same view for declawing cats. When done properly, it isn't a problem. I had 2 cats declawed, both lived to be very old with no issues with it. But how many adult cats do you see in the shelter from owners who didn't want them. Because they are not as cute when they got big and destroyed the couch. So if I had to choose from certain death and declaw, I choose declaw.
In a perfect world, owners would be educated and responsible enough to train their animals. But we don't live in a perfect world. So sometimes you have to choose the lesser of the two evils.
Foolmeonce - claiming that the choice is between "certain death and declaw" for a couch-clawing cat overlooks the fact that there are at least two other choices: (1) Provide a post that is suitable to meet a cat's biological needs to stretch and scratch, of a material your cat likes, and train him/her to use it. Many people provide short flimsy posts or those cruddy corrugated things that lie on the floor, if anything at all. My cat only prefers to scratch two surfaces and one is untreated wood, so she has a hefty post made from three pieces of 2 x 6 bolted together (with the bolt ends countersunk and covered) and a plywood base big enough to keep it stable. Not expensive; if you can't afford it, you can't afford to keep pets. (2) Put up with the damage. The other thing my cat likes to scratch is my purple overstuffed armchair. It doesn't look so good (not that it ever did, really) - but would I seriously consider getting *rid* of her to keep her from disfiguring my chair? And not even having the decency to find another home for her, but just dumping her off to face allegedly "certain death" at the pound? Or having her little toe-tips cut off? Here's a radical idea - someone who is more willing to see a living, feeling animal mutilated than a couch mutilated should not own an animal.
You actually have that BACKWARDS. Clipping a dog's ears to make them stand up makes the dog MORE prone to ear infections. The droopy-eared dogs are missing the HAIRS on the inside that the upright-eared dogs have that screen out dirt and other contaminants. Look at a German Shepherd's ears and then look at a Doberman's ears. You'll see a HUGE difference.
Dogs that bark when excited or when someone comes to the door is normal......I've seen (typically small) dogs that bark incessently for no apparent reason. Without true knowledge of what is involved with de-barking I can say what I would do to those dogs is likely far worse than "de-barking".
At our previous house a neighbor moved because of the death threats directed at their dog who barked morning-noon-night.
if you are going to debark or declaw that is torture-do not take that animal into your home. these creatures cannot tell you how horrible this is. until you are comfortable cutting your fingers off or severing your vocal cords don't do it to someone else-it hurts them just as much.
They aren't "someone else", they are ANIMALS. They aren't all alike and sometimes their behavior changes as they age or perhaps new neighbors move in. Who are you to tell others they just shouldn't take in a dog? Maybe they believe the dog can be trained. Your absolute all or nothing position is exactly like the zealots in this story. Mind your own business. Do with your animals what you wish, leave others to do the same...
NB - declawing should absolutely be illegal. Debarking - while I think it is cruel there MIGHT be times this cold be appropriate but before it is resorted to every other option should be explored.
Debarking is wrong. Maybe have the humans that do do this @!$%# need to be debarked stuipd dumasses.
And never eat meat.
These dogs seems happy. They are wagging their tails, while they try to bark incessantly. Aren't these owners lucky, they don't have to hear the incessant, annoying, headache causing barking??? Let's put them in a house with dogs that won't stop barking no matter what training, etc...you do and see how they feel then.
It's easy to judge others, until you have lived a day in their house.
Or across the street from them, or next door to them, etc., which describes my neighborhood. In the 8 years I've lived there, there has been a grand total of about 3 weeks without a constantly barking dog.
I say debarking should become the new spay/neuter. How can I put this delicately? I don't care if they @!$%#; I just want them to shut up.
I sympathize and empathize with you Angry Guy. But I see calling the cops and animal control to be the preferred solution. Just get rid of the dogs. If you don't have a noise ordinance in your community that deals with this problem, propose one, and run for office if necessary to get one. In my community the owner of the offending animal can get a citation for disturbing the peace, and I have reported them. Also, if they don't clean up after them, call the health department, they can have dogs removed because of dung left in the yard.
I personally am so fed up with barking dogs and the smell of dog @!$%# wafting onto my property and into my house, I'd like to see dogs outlawed. But that's not going to happen. Still, report the problems to the proper authorities, until the owner becomes responsible or the dog is removed. But debarking, I don't think so.
Geez Angry after 8yrs ya should be used to it........:)
@ Tabasco Ed, If your getting the smell of dog crap wafting onto your property and you are smelling it in your house, I would say you definatly need to call the authorities. Because if that is happening someone is being very cruel to their animals and it should be checked out.
Previously, the guy next door let the dog @!$%# from two pugs accumulate for two weeks, then clean it up and mow the lawn. A regular cycle. It constantly stank. I got tired of reapeatedly asking him to clean it up. I told him that he should clean it up every day, and he said "that's not going to happen". So I called the Allegheny County Health Department. As my luck had it, just before they came to check it out, he cleaned it up, kenneled the dogs, and went on vacation for a week. The health department found nothing. Later, the slimeball cheated on his wife and left. The ex-wife then bought another house and left. The new people now have four noisy little yappers. Ugh.... At least they clean up after them.
lol - its "inhumane"...when did pets become human? Some humans want to treat their pets like people, but let's get real, they are not human and they will never be human and as long as they are classified as "property" they will not have rights like humans. Do you want problem pets (barking dogs, cats that destroy their homes) to end up in over crowded shelters and put down due to lack of homes? Get real. And for the declawing, cats that are declawed are kept indoors and studies have shown that indoor cats have longer lives... what's the problem there?
I have a neighbor who leaves their dogs out all night when they go on trips. They (2 of them) bark a lot at night, especially when I have my bedroom light on. The neighbor is a jerk so telling them to do something about the dogs wont work. I've been thinking of buying a toy gun that shots those water pellets some 20 feet. Then havemy daughter turn on my bedroom light, while I "educate" the dogs on not barking.
Think that might work?
If you do not want dogs to be "de-barked", then do not have it done. We are far too concerned with other people's business. If my dog is an annoyance to me or my neighbors, I'll do whatever I feel is necessary. These over-zealous "activists" are going too far. Perhaps they would prefer more dogs to be put down...
Ordinarily I would consider you a moron for saying a barking do is being "too concerned with other people's business". Most municipalities have ordinances that deal with the issue. The problem is that people with your attitude hallucinate it is YOUR decision as to whether a dog is a noise problem. It isn't. People who pay a lot for their houses have a reasonable expectation of being able to enjoy their property without a constant yapping.
I had a choice, after trying every possible remedy, of giving up my dog that I loved or having the police at my door at 5:30 am when the neighbors called them. Who would I have given her to, and how could I honestly give a problem animal away, or even to a shelter, knowing that she was unadoptable. She's MY responsibility!
I had her de-barked. The vet was sympathetic to our needs. She recovered quickly and without noticeable pain or incident. She still made noise, just not loud, annoying or high pitched.
The surgery isn't always a permanent fix however, and she's gained a lot of her voice back in the 9 years since having it. This morning, at 2:35 am, another dog or SOMETHING was outside. She barked and scratched and growled for 45 minutes.
I've worked to get her to handle thunderstorms. Fireworks are still scary to her and I live in a place where the summer evenings often include them. Fortunately my neighbors are part-timers and also have dogs that BARK, else I'd be considering de-barking her again.
I accept full responsibility for my dog. I love her and have given her a home and taken care of her to the best of my ability and within my means, which has been damn hard. I'll admit that I'm too lenient, IF you'll admit that you may not know everything.
Fair?
Steve, I would consider you a moron for not being able to comprehend my post. I am opposed to the activist who want "de-barking" banned. I wrote that if you are opposed to it, don't have it done. It is my business if I find it a solution for MY dog annoying me or my neighbors. They go too far in trying to ban the procedure so that NO ONE can choose that option. Get my drift, now?
Dogs bark to draw attention. Dogs who excessively bark lack appropriate interaction. Usually, its the owners' behaviors that trigger or encourage barking. The AVMA condones so many barbaric practices (declawing, debarking, tail docking, ear cropping, pulling teeth to prevent biting, etc) all for the financial benefit of its members. Science tells us these procedures do not benefit the animal and cause long-term pain and discomfort. Breeders use the AVMA's acceptance as proof of the 'benign' or 'beneficial' nature of these barbaric practices. It is quite easy to tell if your vet is a humane person, or in it for the dollar: ask them about declawing or debarking. If they are willing to do it, they are in it for the money, and not your pet's wellbeing. Yeah, they will give you excuses (better than being homeless, better than euthanasia, etc), but the real conversation should be about alternatives that do not mutilate innocent animals. The AVMA is no friend to animals. I should know, I am a long time AVMA member, and not all AVMA members agree with their stance.
Frankly, I live in a community of 212 homes on 20 acres of land! At least 1/3 of the property has 1-3 dogs in each townhome. That's right, we all live next to each other. When I moved in we did have such an issue, but we do NOW. The animals have taking over barking constantly at night, and the damn owners are "humanely" leaving them outside to drive the rest of their neighbors crazy in the middle of the night! If I could shoot them, I WOULD. I have absolutely no love for dogs, or cats. They seem to have more right, than I do as a owner who has lived here or over a decade. And try selling your home when you have dogs barking all over the place during an open house. FORGET IT.
Liz M - Griping about it wont solve anything - inconsiderate people abound. Every city has an organization to address these types of issues - its called the police - you call them and request they enforce the local noise ordinance. If you live in a townhome community are there not Home Owners Association rules, enforce those.
It is not the falut of the animals that their owners take no responsibility.
In my community if you can get proof the dog is barking incessantly (I think it's an hour or two) the owners can be cited. It involves videotaping so you'd have to get someone with a view of the dog.
Good luck getting the police to do anything. One family in my neighborbood was fined hundreds of time, for thousands of dollars, and the barking only stopped when they walked away from their mortgage. No doubt they walked away from the fines, too. Face it: laws only restrict the honorable, and for the honorable, they aren't necessary.
You can request that they enforce laws, but that doesn't mean that they will. Too many police and donut-eaters who feel they are above this. In addition, the animal control where I live are a bunch of Peggy Bundy bon-bon eaters who aren't much better. Also, most of the laws are vague and any penaties are small.
When you can't sit in your own yard cause the dog next door is constantly barking, you'd want it debarked too. For some reason the owners don't hear then. I've even thought of getting a dog so I can't hear them. BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK...................................
I have had a number of dogs from a Great Dane to a Poodle-Terrier. I still have a dog and a cat. I haven't had a problem with their behavior except for one. After two years many dollars and much frustration, he had to go. I cannot stand dogs that constantly bark at everything and anything. There are a number of them near my home. I can understand the frustration that can lead to choosing "de-barking"...
I have two dogs, who bark A LOT!!! I spend time with them, let them in the house, out of the house, feed them, throw the ball to them, have had expensive trainers into the house....BARK, BARK, BARK....Sometimes I don't want to be in my own house. Luckily, we don't have close neighbors. I haven't thought about debarking them, but no one would take them, they are older dogs, if my only option was to debark or euthanize........I would go with the debarking....
EXERCISE your doggies...it creates a better owner/dog emotional bond, it burns up their excess nervous energy, and it's good for both your health and your dogs.
Try taking them for at least one good, long, fast walk every day - 40 minutes, or if they are little dogs, about 1 to 1.5 miles (drive the walking route first and note your odometer reading). Or do two 25 minute walks each day. If your dog(s) are strong and aggressive pullers, use a Gentle Leader head halter collar or a Sporn anti-pull body harness. Each about 20 to 35 dollars, by breed size.
Dogs just get cabin fever if they rarely get out of the yard and house - they have instinctive primal needs to walk and explore and mark and sniff their immediate neighborhood. Remember, they are domesticated wolves in doggie bodies. Wolves constantly roam around to "inspect" their packs' territory perimeter.
Lastly, get anti-bark collars. The static shock types of the better brands, like PetSafe, have control program chipsets that humanely train the dog to not bark. Dogs can still play-growl, yip and whine, and they can perform a bark or two before the collar starts to correct them with static electricity pulses. I tried the collar out against my own throat, made a loud "bark" sound and was satisfied that these are not cruel; the shocks were not so much painful, as just unpleasant and surprizing - this distracts the dog from his barking. I have two little dogs, the collars keep them reasonable and quiet when I go to work, they play and romp happily all day wearing them. If they hear something that makes them want to bark, they will whine or yip quietly...occaisionally, one or two barks - then the zap from the collars shuts them up. They are not scared or repressed-acting with the collars on. Never place a collar on them in an angry way (huge mistake - collar fitting must be a neutral, calm activity). They make a very small breed collar unit, too. These tiny PetSafe collars are about 80 dollars, and worth it. The battery modules last for at least six months, and are water resistant for outdoor dogs (not rated for full immersion/swimming, though).
Tried the shock collar on my dog. Put it on her then went out front. She immediatly began barking...got shocked...got scared sh**less...barked more in sheer terror...got zapped again... By the time I got back in the house she was running around so frantically she was running into things and peeing herself.. And also, in my city, before a complaint can be filed for a nuseance barking dog, you must have written testimony from 3 adjoining neighbors to the barking dog along with logs showing when the dog barked and for how long. I used to live behind a barker (before I got my current dog). This dog WOULD NOT SHUT UP. The owner never came outside and spent any time with the dog, never told it to stop. Finally we got desperate. We took pieces of hot dog and "spiked it" with benedryl. Doggie go night night and we could finally sleep for a couple of hours until it wore off. No that is not dangerous or cruel. I have had dogs in the past that the vet has recommended we do this for. Mainly ones that are terrified of loud noises and will hurt themselves from sheer terror on the fourth of july.
Anyway, you do what you have to do, no matter what anyone else thinks. Don't judge me until you have lived a day in my house.
As for cats, I personnaly feel that letting your cats roam the neighborhood is extremely unresponsible both to the cat and to the neighbors. I have had cats come home with severe injuries from catfights. Right now I do not own any cats but still have to pick up cat sh**. My neighbors cats use my yard as their litter box. The cats also love to terrorize my dog. Cats should be kept indoors for their own safety, both from injury and from bullets... Indoor cats do not need their claws for protection. They are then only there for the porpuses of trashing your curtains, furniture, and everything else. I agree with declawing, debarking, snipping ears and tails, spaying and neutering, and anything else that is needed. If you don't agree with these things I have an easy solution to this argument...don't do it!! Nuff said.
Cat declawing is cruel and should be illegal. If you don't want a cat scratching things in your house, don't get a cat.
Mellen, do they make a collar that puts out 50,000 watts of mind numbing lethal shocks? I would buy that and watch the fun!
I'd say let's debark the people. A dog who barks says much more intelligent things than the average American.
If that were true, then dogs are infinitely more intelligent than you.
Finally, something that will allow us working folks to get well deserved sleep/rest. My neighbor's dog bark constantly 24/7. Contacted Animal Control and owner 10 times with no remedity. People don't want to hear a dog constantly barking after a long day/night of work. Please, be considerate of others and don't annoy them with that noise. In most cases, the dog just want attention or to be brought inside but the lazy owners would rather let the dog annoy the neighbors instead of be annoyed in their own house by the dog.
Toss a meatball with sleeping pills over the fence.
Michael Vic has a debarking service that's free.
The family across the street and three houses up from mine has four Westies that bark at the air moving. All day and all night. I'm not sure how I feel about this practice in general, but in my particular case, I would volunteer to contribute to the cost of the surgery.
Let them read my previous post. They need to walk the dogs daily, put static pulse bark correction collars on them. If they can't afford the collars, offer to help out with that.
I've had a LOT of dogs. 99.99% of dogs can be easily trained to be quiet on command, and to minimize their barking behavior when the humans aren't home. Training a dog to be quiet is about the easiest item of training to teach a dog. The problem barking dogs are a display of the low intelligence and insensitivity of their slacker owners.
Having said that, there are a few dogs (the other .01%) that absolutely can not surpress their urge to bark. Sort of the "turret's syndrome" of dogs. Those need to be debarked or put down. Debarking a dog is a simple surgery, quick recovery, and some sanity back for the owners and the neighborhood. I had sled dogs for over 30 years, and I had 2 dogs in that whole time that would not stop barking. They in turn stimulated the rest to bark. I love dogs, but hate barking.
Debarking surgery should be banned, as well as declawing surgery for cats. Usually there is an underlying cause to a dog's excessive barking and that should be addressed through training. Same way with cats: just get a scratching post and train them to use that instead of the back of your new recliner.
The article title should read devocalization as it is the correct term used by veteranarians. Debarking is the process of stripping trees of bark. JEEZ!! Dogs bark, so let it be.
RFFN!!!
If somebody tries to 'devocalize' my pets they're going to be in for a surprise 'demobilization'!
Keep your dogs quiet!
It's a barbaric practice. I'm sure most here will feel the same way and speak to the issue more eloquently than myself. I simply wanted to add to the list of responses here so that there might be so many it will get someone's attention.
There is no meeting ground between rabid pet lovers and people who regard pets as just anoher piece of property. As far as i am concerned, those who are all about pet rights (I especially note PETA) should be allowed to do whatever they want with their own animals - but do not try to tell others what their rights and responsibilities are. Way too many people in this country who think that just because they have an opinion, it "oughta be the law".
wow really!! Whats next? if your kid crys to loud are you going to decry them!!! Don't get a dog or cat if you cant take care of them. i have three dogs and two cats! I would NEVER dream off doing this. Two are rottis and they can bark!!! Thats just so wrong!! I have lived in duplexes when just starting out with Rottis and now in a home with lots of land. I would never aloud my dogs to distube my neighboors, but I would never hurt one of my fur childern like this!!
Dogs are not kids. They don't have human values or attitudes. I'd like to interview your neighbors to see if you "aloud" your dogs to disturb them. Fur children my ass. I'm guessing you are an embarrassment to them.
Lay off dude. Clearly you don't have pets, or if you do, you shouldn't. When you choose to bring an animal into your home, they become more than a pet. They become a vital part of the family and Dawn feels a devotion to her pets equal to that of her children, as all pet-owners should. I don't really care so much about our differing standpoints on this topic as your blatant bullying of Dawn's comment. Dogs have a very elaborate emotional system and just as we would panic if we couldn't express our thoughts aloud (yes, that would be the correct usage of "aloud," as opposed to your intended "allowed") or communicate, a dog may experience anxiety, especially because they don't understand they had a surgery which caused them to lose the ability to bark, so they believe something is just wrong and they need to fix it by coughing or clearing their throats like stated in the article. There is no excuse for such aggression or anger in your comment. Perhaps you need to sort out what's really bothering you away from MSN, or the internet in general. If you had as much love and respect for your pooch as he does you, you may just get some in return and feel the lovely contentment of companionship a pet can give you.
First of all, dogs don't have "vocal cords" like people do. They have a flap of skin. When a dog is bark softened, they are put to sleep and a tool similar to a biopsy punch puts a hole in this flap of skin. When they wake up they can eat, play and indeed bark - only softer.
Contrast this with spaying where the female is put under heavy anesthesia, her belly is cut open and her insides pulled out. The uterus is then cut out. Several layers of stitches are required. When the female awakes she is in pain and must be kept quiet for 5 to 7 days. Please don't try to tell the lie that spaying is to prevent unwanted pregnancies. A rational owner can keep a non-spayed female from being bred. Spaying is done for the convenience of the owner....so that they don't have to go through the inconvenience of her having a season every 6 to 9 months.
Gail, an unbred and unspayed animal can develop infections and other health issues. It's NOT about the convenience of the owner ... it's a health issue. In fact, a vet will tell you that if you don't intend to breed a dog or cat you should get it altered in order to make sure it REMAINS HEALTHY.
Which is kinder, a uterine infection that can kill your pet unless a RISKY surgery is performed to spay it or spaying it before an infection sets in? Removing the testes of a male pet or having the male pet develop urinary crystals so that they have to be catheterized and potentially have to be put to sleep before they develop kidney failure and die a long, agonizing death?
Really ... ANSWER those questions and then tell me it's all for the convenience of the owner. You must be a backyard breeder or have never owned a pet to have that attitude.
What Cat said.
Ferrets are notorious for essentially being breed, spay or die. If a female ferret isn't bred the first time she goes in heat or spayed before it, she could DIE. I think most females would prefer to be spayed than die.
I volunteer at a humane society and see hundreds of spayed cats. Most don't seem bothered by it. Just a couple days out they are running around, playing, and usually the most squirmy of the cats that I visit. The females that DO look bothered and in pain are the ones who recently had kittens and still have engorged boobs (the kittens are kept with their mother for a sufficient amount of time when they are born there/brought in with her, don't worry). Additionally the females that aren't spayed and go into heat don't look too thrilled about it (despite all the flirting they do with anything that walks by...).
Also Gail, what are you suggesting a rational pet owner do? Keep the females indoors forever, and pray that she doesn't slip out through an open door or window by accident? Have you seen a cat desperate in heat? It's not pretty. And it's not just because she'll shove her lady parts in your face constantly.
Cat, I'm not opposed to spaying or neutering. But if your argument held water, then all people should be spayed and neutered also. I would be healthier without my testicles, by your argument. I'm not giving them up, unless I get an illness that requires it. Why shouldn't the same apply to animals? You are going to definitely do surgery to prevent an illness which might (or might not) require surgery? That doesn't make any sense.
Humans aren't as likely to develop serious problems from not breeding after going in heat. There are a lot of differences between the reproduction of a human and that of a cat or dog.
So.... neutering and spaying are also "procedures of convenience"?.... and how many homeless and unwanteds does McGowan home/finance/feed (other than what she bred)? If you have an unfixed pet and don't want the inevitable litter, no problem, just take them on over to HER house : )
Debarking IS cruel but there will always be the rare situation where it could be helpful (cancer, chronic infection, that sort of thing)
So let's make sure I have this right. Cutting off my dogs balls is encouraged, and almost demanded, by the animal rights groups, but a simple surgery to soften his barking is cruel? I bet my dog would disagree on what has the most impact to him.
Very EXCELLENT point, Yellow_Hat. Makes total sense to me.
There are a LOT of people in this discussion who are name-calling and bashing people with divergent opinions from their own. (So much for civil discourse.) Maybe they haven't thought the thing through very well.
The REALITY is that dogs bark. Some bark a LOT. This can be attributed to several things, I imagine, INCLUDING the breed of the dog (some breeds are genetically predisposed to barking more than others), the individual dog's personality, and the type of life that it has lived in the past (especially if it is a "rescued" dog). Laziness or worthlessness of the owner is almost NEVER the case, I imagine, as so many in this discussion have stated.
Doubtless, there are people who are cruel to their animals (e.g., Michael Vick), but I would think that most dog owners who resort to the "debarking" procedure are good people who love their dogs, and are seeking a solution to a problem that they don't otherwise know how to handle.
I don't believe that there is anything cruel about the "debarking" procedure. If it were cruel, then veterinarians wouldn't offer the procedure. Don't forget, vets are ADVOCATES for the animals people keep as pets. Vets LOVE animals and have dedicated their lives to them--FAR MORE than any of the obnoxious, trash-talking, name-calling people in this discussion have, I would think.
The procedure would be cruel if it caused the dog to suffer physical pain for the rest of its life. It would be cruel if it prevented a domesticated dog from eating properly, breathing normally, or living an otherwise normal existence with the family who loves it. It would be cruel if it were a dog in the wild that depended on its natural barking abilities to communicate and survive in the wild. It would be cruel if other dogs had the capability of being JERKS to each other (like some of the people in this discussion) and they bullied, tormented, and made fun of the debarked dog for being different (like some of the people in this discussion are doing).
The REALITY is that it is NOT a cruel procedure, or no vet in this country would do it. To the militant loud-mouths in this discussion: You don't get to impose your morality onto everyone else--especially through verbal bullying. Try CIVIL DISCUSSION for a change--and open your minds.
Finally, consider this: Within a totally exasperated family, if the choice comes down to either debarking the dog or giving it up to a shelter where there is a high likelihood it will be euthanized, WHICH IS PREFERABLE? If the family has tried everything they know of to stop the constant barking, but they just can't deal with the barking; if they otherwise love the dog and want to care for it, what then?
Are some of you people going to volunteer your time to come to their house and try to train their dog to NOT do what millions of years of evolution and hundreds of years of selective breeding cause it to do instinctively? I doubt it.
And besides, I'm not sure there is that much moral difference between training it to STOP acting as instinct would have it act in its natural environment, and surgically preventing it--a MUCH simpler process for both the dog AND the owner.
Anthony, if you are so civilized why are you resorting to the Internet equivalent of YELLING?
I have several dogs of various breeds, two are dachshunds; notorious yap dogs. As all of my dogs are rescues I have no way of telling what kind of training or lack thereof they received as pups but in the case of the weenies I would say it was little to none. When they came into my home they barked incessantly at the least little noise. They think they are protecting the house, it is apparent in their posture and attitude. They will also start barking in joy when someone comes into the house and this usually gets the other dogs worked up, except for one who would not bark if his life depended on it. He sees life at this point as all good and has no complaints.
Over the past couple of years they have learned not to bark at everyday noises and only use the joy bark for a few seconds. None of the regular training methods worked and eventually I got one of those electronic "bark-off" boxes and kept in the main room. That little gizmo combined with a super soaker water gun has done wonders. They might bark once or twice, then they hear the bark off, which usually shuts them right up. If that doesn't immediately quiet them I tell them I am going to get my gun (water gun) and silence ensues.
The only problem is that one of the big dogs is terrified of the bark off so we don't use it very often, only if there is some extra stimulation going on in the neighborhood; road work, construction, etc. The threat of the "gun" is more than sufficient to quiet nearly every situation. We also keep all of our dogs in at night. It is a dog's nature to protect their home and warn their pack of intruders. If they are kept inside at night this behavior is lessened.
I agree that this proceedure (de barking) is cruel and unnecessary and should be banned. If people can spend the money on the surgery then they should be able to spend the money on other means of behavior modification. If they are too busy to take the time needed to work with an animal to solve their problems then they shouldn't have a dog. Might I suggest a nice quiet little ferret.
It's only in a dog's nature to protect the home, when they can't trust you to protect it. They have dominated you, and every time they bark, they are attempting to dominate you. They dominate your household if they are attempting to protect it. Dogs should NEVER be allowed to dominate a human.
Dog Whisperer 101
Humans did not create dogs and have no right to change what God felt was needed for the dog to exist in this world. What a shame that people will do this to make dog ownership easier. Dog "ownership" comes with the good and the bad. You are not going to plug the dog so he cannot evacuate if he drops a load on the floor inside your house any more than you should confine him to a tree for the rest of his life for chasing the neighbor’s cat. The bark of a dogs have been proven to be very valuable tools for dogs and have in many cases saved human lives during emergencies such as fires. What a shame that people would consider this as an option that is strictly for their own personal benefit. Come on people.... Speak up for "Man's best friend" who can obviously not speak up for themselves! Stop this mutilation of dogs.
Consider This...
If you can start the day without caffeine,
If you can get going without pep pills,
If you can always be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
If you can resist complaining and boring people with your troubles,
If you can eat the same food every day and be grateful for it,
If you can understand when you’re loved ones are too busy to give you any time,
If you can overlook it when those you love take it out on you when, though no fault of yours, something goes wrong,
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment,
If you can ignore a friends limited education and never correct him/her,
If you can resist treating a rich friend better than a poor friend,
If you can face the world without lies and deceit,
If you can conquer tension without medical help,
If you can relax without liquor,
If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,
If you can honestly say that deep in your heart you have no prejudice against creed, color, religion, or politics,
Then, you are almost as good as your dog...
Okay - sorry, but a rant is coming: I have neighbors with dogs who sadly don't think as you do. A doberman across the street hangs out by an open window and barks and howls at everything in sight, including, apparently, leaves falling off trees. He does this at night too while his owner is at work. Another small, yappy dog two doors down likewise barks at everything when his owner puts him out in the yard to "play" twice a day. Sometimes he and the doberman bark at each other. Bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark! I've seen dog owners come into our yard to drop their dog's poop into OUR trash bins as they walk by, or walk one dog or several dogs simultaneously on 50 foot leashes so that others walking get tangled in them. I swear that you could cut a leash and the dopey owner (50 feet ahead of the dog, distracted with a cell phone) wouldn't even know. I hate barking dogs AND some dog owners. (This IS a rant, remember?)
That said, I like dogs, I DO know good dog owners, and I would never have a dog "debarked", but I swear that we have all the city's dog owner rejects living on our street, and the thought of "debarking" can become attractive. After trying to get a neighbor to deal with her forever barking dog a few years ago (face to face conversation, notes, cookies, phone calls) we gave up and called the police at 1 am. The dog was barking when an officer arrived, but he couldn't do anything as the owner wasn't home, and he referred us to the dog officer. As he was leaving our front steps, a woman passing by, who heard us speaking with him (and who doesn't live on our street but owns several dogs) came up to us and yelled at us for being "bad neighbors". Forcing dog owners like her to have their vocal cords cut seems reasonable too.
Kathy Stuart: I agree with you -- lots of people should not have a dog. It's a big responsibility and you have to be honest with yourself about your level of commitment. (That's why I have two cats.)
The parts you wrote about the "one who would not bark if his life depended on it" and threatening them with the water gun, and "silence ensues" are hilarious. You really sound like you know dogs and are committed to their well-being.
Nicolaus, I wouldn't go with de-barking, I would go with de-dogging. Call the authorities and get rid of the damned things!
People try to pass animal "welfare" laws without much clue about the amount of short or long-term pain involved and without a good understanding of animal behavior. I managed to teach my lab not to bark, but that doesn't mean all dogs can be trained. It is cruel and unusual punishment to subject a neighbor to constant barking. It is also cruel to take a beloved pet away from a family. Veterinary groups need to decide whether some form of the debarking surgery is safe and unlikely to cause excessive scarring or other long-term problems. If so, then debarking should be considered on a case by case basis. Staying with a loving family is of tremendous physical and emotional benefit to a dog. This could easily outweigh minor, temporary discomfort. Dogs have plenty of non-vocal ways to communicate with other dogs and their owners. Barking isn't as essential to them as speech is to us, so the "how would you feel" argument doesn't hold water. Making a law should never be a knee-jerk reaction. You need to weigh both sides and seek input from experts.
@ RTinVa- "Humans did not create dogs and have no right to change what God felt was needed..." Um, actually humans DID create dogs. Domestic dogs are completely different from wolves or wild dogs. They have different shapes, sizes, and temperaments. Their barks and the amount they bark varies radically among breeds. They have been bred to suit OUR needs. Constant or less frequent barking was useful for the original purpose of the breed. Most dogs are now housepets. It would certainly be possible to select for quieter dogs, but until then, dogs will need to be either trained or debarked to keep the peace in densely populated areas.