CDC: Whooping cough epidemic worst in 50 years

The bacterial infection also known as pertussis can be very serious for children under the age of 12 months. The biggest outbreak is currently in Washington State, where there were more than 3,000 cases through July 14. NBC's Robert Bazell reports.

Whooping cough is causing the worst epidemic seen in the United States in more than 50 years, health officials said Thursday, and they’re calling for mass vaccination of adults.

The epidemic has killed nine babies so far and babies are by far the most vulnerable to the disease, also known as pertussis, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says. The best way to protect them is to vaccinate the adults around them, and to vaccinate pregnant women so their babies are born with some immunity.

“As of today, nationwide nearly 18,000 cases have been reported to the CDC,” the CDC’s Dr. Anne Schuchat told reporters in a conference call. “That is nearly twice as many as reported last year. We may be on track for a record high pertussis rate this year,” she added.

“We may need to go back to 1959 to find as many cases. I think there may be more coming to a place near you.”

The last record year was 2010, when 27,000 cases were reported and 27 people died. In 1959, 40,000 cases were reported.

In 2008, whooping cough killed 195,000 people globally, according to the World Health Organization.

Whooping cough is caused by a bacterial infection. It gets its name from the nagging cough it causes that can make children breathless. They often gasp for air, making a distinctive whooping sound. But it’s not so serious in adults and they may not realize that a persistent cough is being caused by pertussis.

Related: Obesity may increase adults' whooping cough risk

Washington state is having an especially bad time with whooping cough this year, with 3,000 cases so far, compared to 20 at the same time last year, said Mary Selecky, secretary of the Washington State Department of Health.  “For every case that we know about, we suspect that there are many people out there who have pertussis and don’t know it,’ Selecky said.

“In many cases, babies get this illness from their mothers or others close to them. It’s absolutely tragic.”

The state has distributed 27,000 doses of a booster vaccine for uninsured adults and has ordered more.  “This disease is very easy to catch,” Selecky said. “It has certainly gotten hold of our population in Washington state.”

The CDC is trying to figure out what's going on, but Schuchat said a couple of factors are clearly at work. The formulation for the whooping cough vaccine was changed in 1997, and kids hitting age 13 and 14 now are the first to have been fully vaccinated with five doses of the new vaccine. The new formulation causes less of a reaction, but it may also wear off sooner, Schuchat said.

The older vaccine was made using a whole pertussis bacterium. It was very effective, but it did cause swelling in some kids who got it, and sometimes caused a fever -- something that scared parents. It also was widely blamed for causing rare but serious neurological reactions, although Schuchat said studies have not confirmed this.

“Vaccines have done a good job of reducing the incidence of pertussis but our vaccines aren’t perfect,” Schuchat said. “We wish we had better ways of controlling pertussis. Given how dangerous pertussis is for babies, preventing infection in babies is our priority.”

Schuchat says people who are not vaccinated have eight times the risk of infection compared to people who are fully vaccinated against whooping cough. And if someone who’s been vaccinated does get whooping cough, the disease is usually less serious and they are far less likely to infect someone else.

The CDC says 95 percent of toddlers aged up to three years have received at least three doses of the vaccine and 84 percent have four doses. And in 2010 69 percent of 13- to 17-year-olds got a fifth booster dose. Kids should get five doses to be fully protected.

And while adults are supposed to have at least one dose of whooping cough vaccine, only 8.2 percent of U.S. adults have done so.

Related stories:

Health officials in Washington state say whooping cough has reached epidemic levels. Hundreds of cases have been reported so far this year, six times more compared to the same period in 2011. NBC's Mike Taibbi reports.

 

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But let's look on the positive side, none of those babies that died will ever develop autism or autoimmune disease because of that evil vaccine.

Ignorant people choose not to vaccinate their children, period. Unfortunately, the repercussions don't affect only the ignorant.

  • 2 votes
Reply#142 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:24 AM EDT

So if someone chooses not to vaccinate and if you choose to vaccinate shouldn't your child be protected, assuming for the moment that the vaccine is doing its job???

If we REALLY care about the effectiveness of vaccines and not just big Pharma making a buck then lets follow up those vaccines with tests for antibodies against the various dieseases we are vaccinating against. Ask your local insurance company and doctors office what they think of THAT idea....

    #142.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:20 AM EDT

    Voice-

    If the vaccine were 100% effective, then yes, my kid would be fully protected and wouldn't have to worry about it at all. However, since it is not, herd immunity is required in order to protect my child and children who can't get vaccinated.

      #142.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:38 AM EDT
      Reply

      .

        Reply#143 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:30 AM EDT

        The outbreak then is in Washington state where air from the Far East comes across the pacific and slams into the west coast. Makes me wonder what germs, radiation, viruses and whaterver is coming from there.

          Reply#144 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:37 AM EDT

          I recently got over what was diagnosed as an upper respiratory infection, which seemed odd for me given that it was the middle of the summer (though I know that doesn't mean anything). It seems in the past few years I've had at least one issue involving my lungs every year, but this time around I actually stayed up all night long coughing and trying to catch my breath. I would gasp and called up the doctor, virtually crying and devoid of sleep, telling them I was having trouble breathing. I'm starting to wonder if it was whooping cough...though I never got the formal diagnosis. If the weather gets too hot, I can't breathe as well. Fortunately, I haven't been around any babies.

            Reply#145 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:11 AM EDT

            Go to the ER.

              #145.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:16 AM EDT
              Reply

              Here we go with the CDC trying to jam more vaccines into the population.

              First off, if I so much as have a sniffle I stay away from any infant, baby, toddler or small child without exception. I always am amazed when people pass their newborns around to random adults who are carrying any and all viruses, bacteria, fungi and so forth.

              I'm waiting for the mandatory vaccine laws to kick in.

                Reply#146 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:16 AM EDT

                Voice-

                What if you are sniffly and it is your kid?

                  #146.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:43 AM EDT

                  What if?

                  http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/100/6/e10.full

                  Complications were observed in 95 of 1640 (5.8%) patients (Table 2). They were significantly more frequent in infants <6 months of age than in patients >6 months of age (23.8% vs 5.1%; P < .001). Most common complications were pneumonia (29.5%) and apnea (12.6%). Of all infants 6 months of age, 3.2% and 15.9% were reported to have pneumonia and apnea, compared with 1.6% and 0.1% in patients >6 months of age, respectively. There were no seizures reported in this study;

                    #146.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:37 PM EDT

                    So you stay away from babies when you have the sniffles. Do you also stay away from every pregnent woman, every mother and father? You must live a lonely life to stay away from so many people so that YOU don't infect anyone, not just babies. Or are you so thoughtless as to assume no one around you are around babies?

                    LL

                      #146.3 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:09 PM EDT
                      Reply

                      Hold up a minute, vaccines are a money drain for "Big Pharma" not cash reservoirs, sure vaccines may sell but they suffer from huge lawsuit volumes

                      Get your facts straight. Vaccines are PROFIT for pharmaceutical companies. They are are EXEMPT from being sued for vaccine damage. There is a federal vaccine damage program that is next to impossible to get money out of. But the vaccine companies CAN'T be sued. So basically if your kid is the "one" to have a reaction you are on your own with no way to get compensation.

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#147 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:18 AM EDT

                      One more discease that's more prevalent since uncontrolled illegal immigration. The fact is if you have millions of people entering the country from countries with no medical screenings or vaccinations policies you are going to have a reemergence of diseases. Everything from Bedbugs to measles have increased due to this and some Americans not getting their vaccinations because of bogus medical studies.

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#148 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:24 AM EDT

                      Oh how stupid! Its the new wave parenting that refuses to vaccinate that will cause epidemics.

                      • 1 vote
                      #148.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:52 AM EDT

                      there is nothing "new wave" about parents not chossing to vaccinate. people have been doing it for centuries. this isn't a new debate, its been going on since vaccines first came out. some of us just don't want to touch those nasty things. so be it. do you feel this passionate about someone refusing chemotherapy? i didn't think so.

                        #148.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:10 PM EDT
                        Reply

                        People want to control women's reproductive rights by forcing them to watch certain videos when they make a certain decision; this approach should be required for parents who want to refuse their chidren vaccines. Require by law that they read pamphlets or literature about vaccines and/or these diseases, then make them watch videos of children suffering and/or dying from these diseases, then make them sign a form that they acknowledge that they accept that they may be sentencing their children and other people's children to this suffering and/or death. Finally, require they pay a fee or garnish their wages for a state or Federal govenment level fund so payments can be made out to people who sue the state or federal government because their child has become disabled or disfigured or died because these people were allowed to increase the frequency of occurrence and susceptibleness of the whole community to these deadly and traumatic childhood diseases. Of course, money won't return those children to life or restore health to those children who have been damaged by these diseases, but at least those culpable will have to accept some of the blame and shoulder some of the restitution.

                        All I can think is this whole thing is some twisted eugenics program by the anti-vaccinators; reduce autism by killing off more of the kids who might have developed autism. Or is it some weird retograde abortion attempt?

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#149 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:42 AM EDT

                        Vaccines can cause awful side effects. They include believing that vaccines cause autism. Many are particularly susceptible to this belief when it is spoken by ex-playboy centerfolds that say it convincingly while wearing low-cut dresses. Vaccines can also cause people to believe that anecdotes and coincidences have equal merit to epidemiological studies that have sample sizes of 10,000 or more and are reported by Danish people. Occasionally vaccines cause people to be unable to comprehend statistics or the nature of random events. Further side effects include equating modern vaccines with those made 50 or more years ago. In severe cases, vaccines can induce people to think that polio and smallpox eradication were flukes and that your uncle's bunion was caused by his polio vaccine.

                        Well, I would write more but I'm late for my blood-letting and incantation session. I gotta get rid of my pellagra somehow and my eugenics methods just aren't working.

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#150 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:45 AM EDT

                        Oh get real! You peddle snake oil.

                          #150.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:51 AM EDT
                          Reply

                          We no longer insist on vaccinating children so this is the consequence. Some parents are so ignorant they should not be allowed to be parents.

                            Reply#151 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:50 AM EDT

                            I am a nurse. The primary reason I feel whooping cough is on the rise is the fact that our immune systems are being ravaged by the toxic environment we live in- too many immunizations for infants (up to 6 at one time. How can an immune system handle such an onslaught?), improper food, chemicalized food , water and polluted air.

                            Still we could turn this around by getting plent of fresh air and sunshine, eliminating all refined foods from our diets, stopping smoking and drugging, feed your babies breast milk from youself or other healthy human moms( Use formula as a last resort). Avoid GMO's, improperly fed and reared live stock, organic vegetables, by supporting our local farmers.

                            Do your research. Start learning and educating yourselves about the unseen world that coexists with us and within us. Here's a few books to start:

                            • 1 vote
                            #152 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:08 AM EDT

                            Ellen, you sound more like a plant for a particular cause than a nurse. Immunizations causing an onslaught to a child's immune system? As a nurse, it doesn't sound as if you retained much from your immunology studies. Where did you get your degree, Diplomas-R-Us?

                              #152.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:52 AM EDT

                              Ummm......riiiiight.

                                #152.2 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:00 PM EDT

                                so you really think that 36 DOSES of disease in a child's body by the time they are 1 is okay? really? kids may get chicken pox (one disease) by the time they are 1, and you think it is acceptable that an infant whose imune system isn't fully developed until the age of 2 is equipped to handle 36 DOSES of various disease? unbelieveable. i feel bad for your children who has to succumb to dose after dose after dose of poison.

                                  #152.3 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:16 PM EDT

                                  so you really think

                                  thats the point. It doesn't matter what you or he thinks. Its what the evidence shows.

                                  thats evidence from independent laboratories, the NIH, and industry

                                    #152.4 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:40 PM EDT

                                    There are no clinical safety trials that have been done studying the current vaccine schedule. There is no systematic evidence! No matter what you think it doesn't exist. Most vaccines are studied short term, mainly focusing on antibody production, and the placebo is another vaccine that can cause the same side effect profile which can make the vaccine appear relatively safe.

                                      #152.5 - Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:43 PM EDT

                                      there's no evidence that its harmful

                                      if your hypothesis is that it is indeed harmful, then you need papers/stats proving its harm, not evidence supporting its safety.

                                      Most vaccines are studied short term,

                                      disagreed. Theyre being studied every day in the 90%+ portion of the population that takes them. Unless you have systematic evidence of their harm, youre talking out your rectum

                                        #152.6 - Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:36 PM EDT

                                        there's no evidence that its harmful

                                        If you don't look you won't find.

                                        disagreed. Theyre being studied every day in the 90%+ portion of the population that takes them.

                                        Wrong! I'm talking controlled trials. If you think I'm wrong then show me so I can critique.

                                        Post surveilance marketing done by the manufacturer is not good science. There is evidence that adverse reaction are hidden by pharmaceutical corps. The honesty policy is a conflict for pharma unless it's to make good PR.

                                        Or you could tell the IOM that you have all of the studies and they don't need to even consider studying it.


                                        Study Designs for the Safety Evaluation of Different
                                        Childhood Immunization Schedules
                                        Prepared for the Institute of Medicine Committee on
                                        Assessment of Studies of Health Outcomes Related to the Recommended Childhood Immunization Schedule

                                        SUMMARY
                                        To date, there have been few comparative studies evaluating the safety of different vaccine schedules. A few of the existing studies have shown that there are cases in which the risk of adverse events can depend on the vaccination schedule used. Hence, it is both a feasible and important area of study. As a relatively new field of investigation, the big question is what types of study designs will be most fruitful for evaluating different childhood vaccine schedules. A number of possible study designs are presented in this review to evaluate different features or components of the vaccine schedule. These include the timing of individual vaccines; the timing between doses of the same vaccine; the interaction effect between vaccines and concurrent health conditions or pharmaceutical medications; the interaction effects of different vaccines given on the same day; the ordering of different vaccines; and the effect of cumulative summary metrics such as the total number of vaccines or the total amount of some vaccine ingredient. Study designs for the comparative evaluation of one or more complete schedules are also considered. Methods are presented both for adverse events with an early onset, which are the easiest to study, and for adverse events with a late onset, including serious chronic conditions. It is concluded that a wide variety of different vaccine schedule components can be studied.

                                          #152.7 - Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:56 PM EDT

                                          If you don't look you won't find.

                                          Not a strong argument robert. Its either there, or its not.

                                          Wrong! I'm talking controlled trials.

                                          No robert, youre wrong. How were the problems with Vioxx discovered? How about the problems with statins that you are so fond of? With the biggest clinical trial of all--widespread use

                                          One of the most basic tenets of showing harm is showing a bad outcome in the experimental group at a higher rate than the control group

                                          Do you have any evidence of a harmful effect in the vaccine group? No. You fail the most basic tenet

                                          Post surveilance marketing done by the manufacturer

                                          No one said the manufactuer. Its usually done by physicians, the CDC, and the FDA

                                          Or you could tell the IOM that you have all of the studies

                                          When did I disagree with this citation? When did I say more data was bad? In fact, my initial post agrees with the IOM--that people like you need to put up or shut up

                                            #152.8 - Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:45 PM EDT

                                            How were the problems with Vioxx discovered? How about the problems with statins that you are so fond of? With the biggest clinical trial of all--widespread use

                                            A whistleblower! See this is one of the things that makes me question your honesty about being a medical doctor. This is the type of ignorance and emotion that penquin displays. Why were the problems of Vioxx hidden? Can you tell me that?

                                            Do you have any evidence of a harmful effect in the vaccine group? No. You fail the most basic tenet

                                            When almost all clinical trial studies involve efficacy design instead of safety how would you find this effect. Especially in small groups when vaccines are given to millions. What if there is a serious reaction in 1/10,000 or 1/100,000. How could a clinical trial of 10,000 pick that up? Answer: it couldn't.

                                            And when the design of the study compares the vaccine to another vaccine or adjuvant components this can mask the true safety profile. It only compares it to the unknown safety profile of the active control.

                                            But you probably don't know what all of that means.

                                              #152.9 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:02 AM EDT

                                              A whistleblower

                                              Wrong!

                                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rofecoxib

                                              Phase III clinical trials, like the APPROVe study

                                              See this is one of the things that makes me question your honesty about being a medical doctor.

                                              Actually, since I was right, it makes me question your intelligence

                                              Why were the problems of Vioxx hidden? Can you tell me that?

                                              this is a classic robert tactic of diversion. The info is in the article. The documents were supplied to the FDA

                                              When almost all clinical trial studies involve efficacy design instead of safety how would you find this effect.

                                              all these trials have secondary endpoints of safety. You would know if you ever read one instead of relying on natureisbest.com

                                              Especially in small groups when vaccines are given to millions

                                              which is why, as I stated earlier, the current trial (phase IV) should show something. It hasn't

                                              What if there is a serious reaction in 1/10,000 or 1/100,000. How could a clinical trial of 10,000 pick that up? Answer: it couldn't

                                              answer: I just did. See above

                                              And when the design of the study compares the vaccine to another vaccine or adjuvant components this can mask the true safety profile.

                                              wrong again. You can see if either group experiences adverse effects at a greater rate than age matched controls

                                              But you probably don't know what all of that means

                                              again, I am way more educated than you on this. If you understand it (which you clearly don't) you can bet you a$$ that I understood it years ago

                                              have you ever been part of a research trial?

                                              Have you ever published?

                                              I can answer yes to both of those questions. Your answer is clearly no

                                                #152.10 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:42 AM EDT

                                                From your wikipedia link:

                                                Merck withdrew the drug after disclosures that it withheld information about rofecoxib's risks from doctors and patients for over five years, resulting in between 88,000 and 140,000 cases of serious heart disease.[2] Rofecoxib was one of the most widely used drugs ever to be withdrawn from the market. In the year before withdrawal, Merck had sales revenue of US$2.5 billion from Vioxx.[3]

                                                Lawyer : FDA, Merck collaborated to discredit Vioxx whistleblower

                                                http://www.pbs.org/now/thisweek/index_010705.html#video

                                                  #152.11 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:54 AM EDT

                                                  it says merck turned over documents to the FDA elsewhere in the article

                                                  Either way, this is a classic robert diversion tactic and im not going to indulge you. Either answer the questions I laid out regarding vaccines, or dont. Your choice. But I have no interest in talking about merck now

                                                    #152.12 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:39 AM EDT

                                                    When did I disagree with this citation? When did I say more data was bad?

                                                    It's not that more data is bad. You're saying vaccine are safe because ...well... i guess because the proper safety studies haven't been done for you to conclude otherwise.

                                                    Was Vioxx safe when it was first approved. Did it become more dangerous and actually was safe when it was approved. Of course not.

                                                    To date, there have been few comparative studies evaluating the safety of different vaccine schedules. A few of the existing studies have shown that there are cases in which the risk of adverse events can depend on the vaccination schedule used

                                                    Eric

                                                    it says merck turned over documents to the FDA elsewhere in the article

                                                    Because they had been exposed after the fact. Geesh how blind do you want to be to turn your eye on corruption.

                                                    Whistleblowing virologists sue Merck for alleged falsification of mumps data

                                                    Of course when a company commits fraud in one department they would NEVER commit fraud in the vaccine department. Vaccines are a sacred cow with halos.

                                                      #152.13 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:13 PM EDT

                                                      guess because the proper safety studies haven't been done for you to conclude otherwise.

                                                      the short term safety studies have been done. Your ignorance is not an excuse

                                                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22814965

                                                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22791675

                                                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22776216

                                                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14580221

                                                      Long term studies are ongoing currently. Thats called "phase IV"

                                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phases_of_clinical_research#Phase_IV

                                                      Was Vioxx safe when it was first approved. Did it become more dangerous and actually was safe when it was approved. Of course not.

                                                      Because they had been exposed after the fact. Geesh how blind do you want to be to turn your eye on corruption.

                                                      Whistleblowing virologists sue Merck for alleged falsification of mumps data

                                                      Im not discussing merck. No more diversionary tactics, robert

                                                      Of course when a company commits fraud in one department they would NEVER commit fraud in the vaccine department. Vaccines are a sacred cow with halos.

                                                      every one of those studies I posted were done by independent labs. Nice try, though

                                                        #152.14 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:41 PM EDT

                                                        What was the placebo in each of those trials? What was the comparative analysis of safety? Typically it's another vaccines or adjuvant with the same "safety" profile.

                                                        One of the trials only had 802 subjects which means only about 400 were studying the short term reactions of the vaccine. If this vaccine cause 1/1000 serious short term debilitations, let alone long term sequelae, there is no way for this trial to exclude that. No way. Do you get that?

                                                          #152.15 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:53 PM EDT

                                                          What was the placebo in each of those trials?

                                                          not all trials have placebos. How does that invalidate the results of this trial?

                                                          What was the comparative analysis of safety?

                                                          comaparative analysis of safety? Using important sounding phrases is a pretty transparent way to try and make yourself sound smarter. What are you trying to say?

                                                          Typically it's another vaccines or adjuvant with the same "safety" profile.

                                                          so I guess youre looking for a control group? How about the same kids BEFORE they recieved the vaccine. If they took the vaccine, and parents noted no reaction in 1-3 months, that makes a significant short term reaction unlikely

                                                          One of the trials only had 802 subjects

                                                          800 is not bad for a trial, depending on the endpoint. Ive included studies with thousands of patients though. I wonder why youre not referring those? Hmm?

                                                          If this vaccine cause 1/1000 serious short term debilitations

                                                          and if it makes pennies fly out of my a$$, we could all be millionaires. you have no PROOF

                                                          Do you get that?

                                                          I cannot make this simpler for you. There have been thousands of trials on vaccines which have included millions of patients, and we have long term data on people who have recieved vaccines decades ago (including yours truly)

                                                          Thats a mountain of data you are ignoring

                                                          If you want meta analysis of vaccine trials, I can provide that

                                                            #152.16 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:03 PM EDT

                                                            1st link-not a safety study. " Adverse events were generally mild and similar across groups. Serious adverse events were uncommon." No data to analyze this conclusion. Need to know the reaction numbers for the comparative group.

                                                            2nd link 207 healthy children- 3 had severe solicited reactions reported. What happens in unhealthy children? Vaccine injury denial i guess.

                                                            "Safety was evaluated from parental reports, and investigator assessments." Was done in India so we don't know the quality of those parental reports or if there would be any cultural/socio economic variables that would cause one to not report."

                                                            3rd link 800 healthy adults no true placebo just another vaccine.

                                                            4th link- not a study but a review that basically states that there is problems with studying seizures after vaccines because of confounding issues

                                                            It says there are up to 34 extra seizures per 100,000 vaccines but it doesn't say compared to what. Not vaccinated at all?

                                                            I'm not sure why you even posted this 4th link. It doesn't reassure .

                                                              #152.18 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:37 PM EDT

                                                              eric-2573068

                                                              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22419280

                                                              Uh, you might want to take a look at this msnbc article. Despite high vaccine uptake we are now at whooping cough levels of the 1960's when uptake was lower. That's at odds with you study. You can't see the forest because of the trees.

                                                              Btw I don't doubt that the acellular vaccine is safer than the reactogenic whole cell vaccine. But that still doesn't give the true safety profile. It only compares it to the unknown safety profile of another vaccine.

                                                                #152.19 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:40 PM EDT

                                                                "Most of the safety trials did not report the methods for random sequence generation, allocation concealment and blinding, which made it difficult to assess the risk of bias in the studies."

                                                                Difficult to assess bias. Studies could be inherently biased but no way to find out

                                                                And.. as low as 13% against mild pertussis. A lot potential germ spreading going on there by the vaccinated.

                                                                  #152.20 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:47 PM EDT

                                                                  1st link-not a safety study

                                                                  Umm..safety was an endpoint of the trial. Did you read it?

                                                                  2nd link 207 healthy children- 3 had severe solicited reactions reported. What happens in unhealthy children?

                                                                  Again, your guess. You need evidence, not just hunches

                                                                  "Safety was evaluated from parental reports, and investigator assessments." Was done in India so we don't know the quality of those parental reports or if there would be any cultural/socio economic variables that would cause one to not report."

                                                                  you or one of your collegues brought up india as an example of polio vaccine harm. Good enough to show harm, but not to prove safety. I see

                                                                  3rd link 800 healthy adults no true placebo just another vaccine.

                                                                  how does that specifically invalidate the safety endpoints of the trial? Second time Im asking you that question. I get the feeling youre dodging it

                                                                  4th link- not a study but a review that basically states that there is problems with studying seizures after vaccines because of confounding issues

                                                                  a review of studies...aka a meta analysis.

                                                                  It says there are up to 34 extra seizures per 100,000 vaccines but it doesn't say compared to what. Not vaccinated at all?

                                                                  yes

                                                                  I'm not sure why you even posted this 4th link. It doesn't reassure .

                                                                  helps if you read it

                                                                  current data suggest that children with febrile seizures do not experience long-term negative effects.Finally, we discuss the creation of new clinics designed specifically to assist physicians in managing the vaccination of children with a personal or family history of seizures. Data from these clinics suggest that vaccination is safe for children with a personal or family history of seizures,

                                                                  . That's at odds with you study. You can't see the forest because of the trees.

                                                                  Oh, I see. A MSNBC article trumps a cochrane review of >100K patients. Wow. Just wow.

                                                                  I can tell you a bunch of reasons off the top of my head for the whooping cough outbreak

                                                                  1) our current vaccine is not as effective as we hope or it once was. This may be due to the vaccine itself, or the bacteria. Either way, Ive conceeded already the vaccine isn't perfect. Thats far from not highly effective or harmful

                                                                  2) Dropping vaccinations rates because of nutjobs. You might try and come back and say the states with higher vaccine rates have higher infection rates. To me, this is a nonsenical argument. Have you ever met a bacteria that respects state lines? Or how about a family that doesn't travel out of state or have out of state visitors at least twice a year? Our current age of globalization has made that kind of thinking obsolete

                                                                  3)Weakened immune systems. Today many kids who previously would not have survived infancy are living well into adolesence, even adulthood. I see many congenital heart patients who wouldnve been alive 20 years ago thriving. However, they do so at some cost, including a higher risk of infection from chronic immune suppression, long hospital stays, etc. The same is true of adults. As our population ages, it becomes sicker as a whole

                                                                  I think thats sufficient for now

                                                                  The whole idea of a study is to correct for these confounders. Before when I was talking about phase IV trials and real world experience, you dinged me for not being able to cite controlled trials. Now I cite trials and you try and top it with real world experience.

                                                                  You cant be scientific just when it suits you robert

                                                                  It only compares it to the unknown safety profile of another vaccine.

                                                                  how does that specifically invalidate the safety findings of this trial?

                                                                  "Most of the safety trials did not report the methods for random sequence generation, allocation concealment and blinding, which made it difficult to assess the risk of bias in the studies."

                                                                  Difficult to assess bias. Studies could be inherently biased but no way to find out

                                                                  could be. Valid criticism you copied and pasted from the authors. What potential bias could these authors have, all of whom were independent scientists?

                                                                  And.. as low as 13% against mild pertussis. A lot potential germ spreading going on there by the vaccinated.

                                                                  very selective quoting robert. Nice try, but actually not good at all

                                                                  and from 71% to 78% in preventing mild pertussis disease

                                                                  for the 3 component type of vaccine

                                                                  lesson--use that vaccine

                                                                  and the safety was well proven. I'll take your lack of argument there as tacit agreement

                                                                    #152.21 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:26 PM EDT

                                                                    Again, your guess. You need evidence, not just hunches

                                                                    Evidence? Hunches? No. It's what the link you gave reported. Didn't you read it?

                                                                      #152.22 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:15 PM EDT

                                                                      Evidence? Hunches? No. It's what the link you gave reported. Didn't you read it?

                                                                      I thought it was pretty self explanatory. You said this:

                                                                      What happens in unhealthy children?

                                                                      Implying that something bad happens in unhealthy children. I correctly pointed out that any implication here is just a guess.

                                                                      The evidence reported a very small number of self reported severe effects.

                                                                      Next time I'll spell it out more clearly for you. Obviously I overestimated you

                                                                      But more importantly, that's all you have to say???? Wow

                                                                        #152.23 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:23 PM EDT

                                                                        Too many to cover but this one is easy

                                                                        2) Dropping vaccinations rates because of nutjobs.

                                                                        The CDC has already stated that this isn't the case. It's the vaccine. But it shows your undeniable bias towards the infallibility of mass vaccination.

                                                                        And it doess't matter at this point. No one else is listening. The next vaccine article that posts with the burning stupid propaganda call for even more vaccines and blames the unvaccinated, you know where I'll be.

                                                                          #152.24 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:35 PM EDT

                                                                          Too many to cover but this one is easy

                                                                          hahah...i guess thats why you can't manage more than one line? Well, whatever makes you feel better...

                                                                          The CDC has already stated that this isn't the case.

                                                                          Rarely do I get the chance to prove someone dead wrong. Sometimes they dance and jig around the points. This time youre nailed

                                                                          http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6128a1.htm

                                                                          Nevertheless, vaccination continues to be the single most effective strategy to reduce morbidity and mortality caused by pertussis. Vaccination of pregnant women and contacts of infants is recommended to protect infants too young to be vaccinated. In light of the increased incidence of pertussis in Washington and elsewhere, efforts should focus on full implementation of DTaP and Tdap recommendations to prevent infection and protect infants.

                                                                          while the article mentions waning effictiveness as cause, perhaps even a major cause, it never states that non vaccinationated individuals have no effect, as you claim in the above post. Rather, it states the direct opposite

                                                                          Again, I concede that the vaccine doesn't appear to confer lifelong immunity, and this is contributing, and may even be a major factor. But what you stated in the above post, that unvaccinated people play NO role, is complete bs as i have conclusively proven

                                                                          But it shows your undeniable bias towards the infallibility of mass vaccination.

                                                                          Disagreed. It actually shows your bias, as while I am able to admit the shortcomings of the vaccine, and be objective, you consistently turn a blind eye to the cdc, and a multicenter meta-analysis of hundreds of thousands of patients

                                                                          You can call me names all you want---but you cannot deny the evidence. Again, I see that you have left the majority of my post unrefuted

                                                                          No one else is listening

                                                                          To you. I know. But keep trying--everyone needs a hobby

                                                                          have a good one...better luck next time

                                                                            #152.25 - Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:53 PM EDT
                                                                            Reply

                                                                            Guess it won't allow liks to be posted I'll try again:

                                                                              Reply#153 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:22 AM EDT

                                                                              Chicken Squared - you bring up a good point that infants can't receive the vaccine before 6 months old. However, if 100% of the population is vaccinated then there isn't anyone to pass the disease to them, is there?

                                                                                Reply#154 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:47 AM EDT

                                                                                MoMaid- All I'm stating is that if you look at the population density of illegals vs legals, WA and WI wouldn't be the natural place for the outbreak. I'm not pretending they don't exist in WA, but there are far more in texas and the border states. If this were caused by that population, wouldn't logic suggest that's where the outbreak would be?

                                                                                  Reply#155 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:58 AM EDT

                                                                                  I'm sure this doesn't have anything to do with kids not getting vaccinated.

                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                  Reply#156 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:33 AM EDT

                                                                                  This is all the more tragic because it so preventable. On study, published in the journal Pediatrics, found that “about 2% of parents living in the United States are refusing all vaccines for their children, and more than one in 10 alter the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention-recommended vaccination schedule by delaying or refusing certain vaccines.” For more information on the vaccination debate, read Michael Cohen's blog:

                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                  Reply#157 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:43 PM EDT

                                                                                  I'm looking forward to an outbreak in my local area.....more business for me!!!

                                                                                  So, let me clear something up for everybody, because there's a lot of ignorance out there as to how the economics of all of this works. In my office, I vaccinate patients for a variety of things. I have to buy those vaccines from the company, then I turn around and bill the insurance company, who typically will pay me a little less than what it cost to buy the vaccine. I typically make it up with a small administration fee. The bottom line is......there is no bottom line with the administration of these vaccines. I don't make a dime off of them, I provide them as a public service. It's time consuming to ensure that I have supplies, check expiration dates, provide counseling as to the risks/benefits of vaccines.

                                                                                  If I was in it for the money....I wouldn't carry vaccines. Too much trouble for no monetary benefit....but then it keeps the pertussis cases out of my hair, and the shingles cases, and the bacterial meningitis cases.....

                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                  Reply#158 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:00 PM EDT

                                                                                  Our Government has the responsibility to protect those of us that refuse to or are too stubborn or ignorant to protect themselves.

                                                                                    Reply#159 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:57 PM EDT

                                                                                    NOT! America was founded on the principal of personal responsibility. If you want to live in a Socialist state, go ahead and move to ... oh, wait. I forgot about the Socialist in the White House ...

                                                                                      #159.1 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:20 PM EDT

                                                                                      Blond Bunny killer

                                                                                      Talk to polio survivors.

                                                                                      ALL WERE REQUIRED TO GET THE SHOTS. MILLIONS refused.

                                                                                        #159.2 - Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:02 PM EDT
                                                                                        Reply

                                                                                        I actually had whooping cough myself last winter and did not realize what it was until I went to the doctor for something else. Even worse, I had been going to the office while still contagious. I am planning on getting a pertussis vaccine this year along with my annual flu shot in September (I'm in a "high-risk" group due to an incurable genetic disorder). I have a co-worker with a baby and shudder to think what might have happened had I passed the infection on to her.

                                                                                          Reply#160 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:19 PM EDT

                                                                                          This is what happens when people are not vaccinated. Entire populations die.

                                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                                          Reply#161 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:09 PM EDT

                                                                                          Bunny Slayer,

                                                                                          You are wrong. The socialist was moved out of the WH thre and a half years ago.

                                                                                          LL

                                                                                            Reply#162 - Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:15 PM EDT

                                                                                            My personal heart felt thanks to all the dumb @!$%# parents who don't believe in VACCINATING their kids. :)

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            Reply#163 - Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:32 AM EDT

                                                                                            I work in an old (160+ years) cemetery. I've been entering burial card information into a computerized database. I've lost track of the number of children and infants whose cause of death is listed as diphtheria or whooping cough. This disease can be DEADLY. Why do you think they developed a vaccine for it?

                                                                                              Reply#164 - Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:10 AM EDT

                                                                                              In 2008, whooping cough killed 195,000 people globally, according to the World Health Organization.

                                                                                              I have a feeling this number is grossly under reported due to lack of firm data.

                                                                                              Also what is the multiplier for those who died from complications from the whooping cough?.

                                                                                              10X 20X

                                                                                                Reply#165 - Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:06 PM EDT

                                                                                                That's why babies need there vactionations! Parents are all freaked out by the side-effects, but in reality it is much safer to get the vactionation than to get the sickness.

                                                                                                  Reply#166 - Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:27 PM EDT

                                                                                                  The problem is in the vaccinated, Bob.

                                                                                                    #166.1 - Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:44 PM EDT
                                                                                                    Reply
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