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Subscribe to RSSWhen it comes to the elderly, almost no one wants to talk about sex. This is especially true when nursing home and residential care are involved.
According to new report by a group in Australia in the Journal of Medical Ethics, the idea that adults should be able to engage in sexual relationships whenever, and with whomever, they choose becomes very complicated for residents in most nursing homes. For residents with dementia, romantic intimacy is especially discouraged.
Many older people, including those with early stage dementia, enjoy sex while living at home with their spouses. But this ends once they move into a nursing home, even for long-term couples, note the researchers from the Australian Centre for Evidence-Based Aged Care. Married or not, sex ends at the nursing home door.
Nursing homes are simply not set up to permit romance. Privacy is at a premium and few room doors lock. Most rooms are double-occupancy with single beds. And nursing home staff don’t typically encourage romance and sex. It's one less thing for nursing home owners and administrators to worry about.
We're so prudish about the elderly and intimate relationships that we don’t even broach the topic when a loved one is heading to a home. We consider freedom and autonomy when debating who will have the right to pull the feeding tube or turn off the dialysis machine if Mom or Dad can't communicate, but we do nothing to ensure their right to enjoy themselves in an area of life that matters a great deal to them.
Sex may not be for every nursing home resident, but it is surely for some. That's autonomy worth talking about.
A nursing home ought be at least as tolerant as a prison. Some prisons permit conjugal visits. Shouldn’t we expect the same of nursing homes? If you care about your parents' and grandparents' dignity, sex ought to be a topic of conversation regarding the nursing home if that's where they're headed or where they now live.
Bioethicist Art Caplan is the head of the Division of Medical Ethics, NYU Langone Medical Center.
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There's an old saying ... Puritanism is the suspicion that somebody, somewhere, is having fun. For some elderly folks, an active sex life is the only good thing they have left. We should not discourage it or take it away from them.
As long as it is consensual, that's fine. But sometimes in these facilities, really bad things happen because old guys don't know their own boundaries.
My Grandfather lived in a nursing home. When he started to live in his past along with that came the libido of his younger days. Was an issue from time to time, he wanted to take many a lady "On a Walk"
Please answer this ? Does the extra curriculum activity include tapioca pudding or a hot fudge sundae?
But of course, consensual intimacy and sex should be allowed. Many are in nursing homes or assisted living simply due to not being able to fully take care of oneself at home, does not mean the libido is dead by any means. Touch and intimacy provides one with a more healthy balanced life style. My mom was in a nursing home for a number of years before she passed at the age of 92 and she still had that spark in her eye and wanted to spend time with the gentlemen she was not able to have sex due to various medical conditions, yet she simply wished to converse, hold hands and take wheelchairs walks with gentlemen in the home. Some things never die simply because our bodies take on a certain age number through this journey we call life. The heart, spirit, soul and sexual nature is yet quite alive. So little is left once one enters the nursing home, so much is taken away, let them enjoy what they are well able to. Sex, intimacy a drink every now and then, etc. Let them dance in ways they are still alive to.
My parents were having sex into their 80s. I don't know if they had sex in the nursing home since they were not in the same nursing home together. I'm 55 and think about sex but my wife is 100 pounds overweight so I don't want to touch that. Maybe someday I'll find a nice looking lady I can have sex with. I hope so.
Hey Texas, horrid way to talk about your wife. Makes one wonder how much you actually care about the feelings of others.
He didn't say he didn't love her, just that he didn't want to screw her. I love a lot of people I wouldn't have sex with.
Hey, Taleithia you marry a guy and let him get 100 lbs over weight and see how sexy you think he see.
" I don't want to touch that" She should dump you.
I'll tell you the truth though when I say " fat/chubby women will perform fellatio like there is no tomorrow ". They know that they may not be as physically attractive as slimmer women, so they make up for it in sexual enthusiasm. I've noticed that there isn't much they won't do to keep their man happy in the sack. Just don't let them get on top. Not being mean, only looking out for my welfare.
A women who keeps herself up and overweight is just fine. It is like riding in a Eldorado cushion ride.......
The "ride" is built for comfort not speed! At times its nice to take a long, plush, comfortable ride, just enjoy the view along the way.
There are some smokin' hot plus sized women out there. As long as they are clean, enjoy it. They will take of you.
lol.....gotta love the planet of texas........
Regular exercise gets you a long way...
@Robin-2710591 - if your spouse is one of the people you love but don't want to have sex with, then second Kathleen-2443896: unless he/she is equally uninterested in sex he/she should dump you.
LogicRules-01------- BITE ME
Um..Kathleen? Logic was agreeing with you.
When I was younger, hanging out at the bars, (not clubs back then) waiting till the end when all the skinny ones had been selected and left with other guys, I'd walk up to the bar and grab me a chubby. I swear, they are the ones who have me spoiled today, I'm almost like honey, if you can't do that, no need in us getting together....LOL
@Kathleen-24433896 - how did I get on your s***list? As Alicia-1746074 noted, I agree with your post.
53, After bearing children, age, and gravity take over may be you wife wont look as good in a Bikini as once did but chances are you cant see your belt buckle anymore and wont look as good in a speedo either. Be thankful for what she has given you.
And the song Slow Ride comes to mind!
I'm gonna tell your wife you said that. I'll be seeing her tonight. She's a lot of fun!
You, of course, look like a young Adonis. Men are sooooo good at looking in the mirror and not seeing what is there.
Hi, in my experience (as an ex-nightshift worker in a carehome) is that the dymentia residence have no inhibitions, several had asked me to go to bed with them, and there are some very randy 80 year olds, but staff are not allowed to as it is seen as abuse. I think that people should be able to have sex at any time in their lives, as long as it hurt no-one
A friend of mine worked in a nursing home years ago and I remember she told me once that "she had to pull them off of each other at least once a week."
Nursing homes should not be prisons. It's disgusting to even compare them.
I enjoy the sound of wrinkles rubbing past one another, it reminds me of my corduroy days chasing those vixens around the house.
Give 'em a private room to play in ...don't be cruel.
Make sure they wear condoms we sure do not want them to get pregnant.
Condoms prevent more than pregnancy, Jerry. Oh, you didn't know that?
I'm sure he did know that...how nice of you to basically call a complete stranger on the internet an idiot, superiority complex much?!?!
Who are you, his wife?
I do recall reading about an increase in HIV and other STDs in the elderly. Once they start to explore other options, they are at the same risk as the rest of the population, especially if an older woman gets with an older man who has visited prostitutes. He is far less likely to be diligent about getting tested due to the shame puritans inject into a very healthy and, for many, necessary part of our lives.
Why not let them have sex in a supportive environment? What would it hurt? Puritan America just cannot stand to see people enjoying each other's bodies, for some reason. I don't get it. If it is about the seven deadly sins, well, watching an unhealthy person eat a double bacon cheeseburger makes me more upset than the idea of people having sex.
Nobody's wife, just a person who isn't afraid to call people out on automatic rude assumptions.
I'm not stupid, neither is anyone else here on the Vine "Oh you didn't know that?". Just admit it, that was MEANT to sound insulting. RUDE.
Seriously, who are you to judge how smart a stranger online is? SOMEBODY had to knock your ass down a @!$%#ing peg or two. LATER!!!!!!!!!
Prostitutes = healthy? Yeah, you bet. So, just so I understand--the somehow strongly influential Puritans influenced this poor soul into not being tested for diseases, but somehow lacked the influence to convince him not to have sex with a prostitute to begin with? Do I even need to state your suggestion is laughable...? I hope not.
It's amazing how many people love to repeat the "America is under the influence of Puritanism" story over and over again.
Anyway, as far as the story goes, let's hope by then the guy's little dinky winky will have rotted and fallen off so that he can't hurt any more women. Of course, any man who lacks the ability to form a relationship healthy enough to develop sex without paying for it, was never much of a catch anyway, was he? ;)
If they are in possession of their faculties, then yes I'm all for it.. however, if there is dementia involved, they really can't be "Consenting adults' can they? A friend's mother is in a nursing home. She started out in assisted living, and now she is in full nursing care. She's in her 90's and has dementia and some balance and mobility issues. At one point, she was found in a male patient's room, without her clothes in bed with him. This while still in assisted living. She had no clue where she was, or what she was doing. The male patient did not have dementia, or so I am told..I think all institutions are based on prison models to a certain degree, our schools, nursing homes...
And what is exactly "consenting"?? Two people with totally intact brains can say it's "consentual" and then after the fact turn around and say they were raped. In a potential scenario like that, I can understand why administration would frown upon something like that. Some states are bigger on women's rights more so than others. Where I live, all I have to do is call the cops and tell them my spouse, lover, or what have you, hit me or abused me in anyway, and they'd be at my place faster than you can say "huh?" to pick him up. (No, I have never actually tried that so don't know how accurate that is). So, say this happened in my state. Could probably get pretty hairy for the nursing home. I really don't know much about what is all entailed in Nursing Home Law, but just thought I'd mention that.
People in nursing homes are there because they can't usually feed themselves or put on their own clothes. How in the blazes do you expect them to take someone else's clothes off?
One button at a time.
Many nursing homes are calling themselves "Rehabilitation Centers" now, so more and more younger people are going there just for additional physical therapy after joint surgeries, accidents, etc. So, the plot thickens. But now that I think about it, if you can maneuver around to have sex on those small beds, then I guess you don't need that much therapy afterall! :)
Although I don't think sex should be forbidden in residential settings, I think the author is assuming a population that is responsible and capable of making sensible, if not moral, decisions regarding sex. That is not always the case.
There is a certain incidence of assault on elderly women in nursing homes and even in assisted living, but everyone looks the other way. There are plenty of old men who evidently think they are allowed to put their hands on women residents. This ought to be stopped. I have talked to elderly women who have experienced inappropriate touching, and they do not report it because they don't want "to get anyone in trouble."
I would much rather live in an all-women facility than in some of these mixed-gender places because of this.
One of the highest incidences of HIV is in an assisted living complex here in Florida. The old guys go get their Viagra but don't bother with condoms, and the women evidently don't insist strongly enough. After all, pregnancy isn't an issue, right?
It's easy to say it's about freedom and people being treated like adults, but again--people need to be protected against unwanted sexual advances regardless of their living situation.
There is still such a thing as "rape" among same-sex relationships too.
The orderlies seem not to have problems.
I have a friend who works in a Nursing home, and as long as full on dementia is not in the picture and they are obviously consenting, she believes they have every right to have sex. They even give them safe-sex classes. It's part of being human, sex is good. Doesn't matter how old. Not all residents are incapable of making their own decisions, but surprisely a lot are. My 80 year old grandma was a spit-fire, super smart and social, full of her functions, just needed a walker for fear of falling, she still enjoyed sex with my grandpa. Wen he died, my parents did not want her to live alone, with the chance of falling. She had a boyfriend in nursing home... wouldn't surprise me if they sneaked quickies now and then.
At that age, not sure that "quickie" is an appropriate term!! :)
Ugh.. it should NOT be discussed at all. I'm 30 and feel embarassed just thinking about it. It only should be done during wedding night and thats all. Otherwise ur going to hell and sinning so dont do it. ^_^
And you Sir, are the reason there is so much pent up sexual frustration and closed mindedness toward sex in America today. If you believe in God, then you know he gave you the equipment to use. Although I am Atheist, I have read the Bible. There is NOWHERE in any chapter, book, paragraph, verse, etc. that states intercourse between a husband and wife is a sin. As for sex between unmarried consenting adults, that's their business, not yours. I hope when I am 80, I can still get a woodie and bone the wife.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, if you don't use it, it's gonna rust!
If its been a while ya got to shake it by hand first to get the rust and the dust out of the pipes.
I remember thinking pretty much along the same lines as John. I began to understand that the only reason my brothers, sister and I are here is because my parents had sex. I was shocked when my mother told me she was pregnant with my younger brother. Cripes! She was 38 and my dad was 42! Ancient! Not so. Then I got to be John's age and then older. I know that people in their 80's and older have sex if they are capable of it. It is not a sin, John. If you are embarrassed by just thinking about it, perhaps you should discuss it with your doctor. It's just another one of those things about life. Old people do indeed enjoy sex at least as much as younger people.
As long as they are truly able to consent, there should be privacy for them. Get over it.
I was assuming that John was joking??
I hope he was joking ... otherwise, I feel really sorry for the poor guy.
Hey! That's my mom your talking about there you bastid perverts! Shame on you all.
Fa Tass -- Hey now, let's stay off of mothers, we all just got off of yours.
Not just nursing homes where you have to be concerned about the residents having enough wits about them to consent to sex. In the 70s my mentally handicapped brother was in the Northern Virginia Training Center where a female resident was allowed to approach him for a sexual relationship. I'm sure it felt good for both parties, but shouldn't a higher intelligence be required to call them "consenting adults?" My mother was very concerned but didn't want to upset the applecart with complaints since she couldn't take care of my brother at home. The beginning of the era of if it feels good, do it. No judgements allowed.
ability to consent needs to apply, yes, especially if one person is more competant than the other.
Someone who worked in nursing homes say the way it was applied was if someone had moderate dementia or more they'd be evaluated by a doctor/psychologist and the staff to see if they could consent and also tell the family.
As long as there are Christians in this country with any voice, we will never be truly free as a society. They seem to enjoy sucking the fun out of the room...and some of them like little boys to do it for them.
Benet -- That was a very sad and mean post, but 100% correct. Most, if not all of your sex offenders, have a very strong religious background. They get off on the forbiddeness of it.
I think it's only the Catholics that like little boys...I agree that Americans are very uptite when it comes to talking about sexual freedom, but is it really the Christians? I mean, Europeans are very liberal about sexual things, including being on the beaches topless, etc. yet they have Christians over there too...so how do you explain that?
What a complete waste of time. Worry about your own sex life. Who wants to have sex at that age anyway?
ME!!!! I hope my junk still works at 80. That's the way I want to die, heart attack while tagging the wife. I just wouldn't want to cause her the psychological trauma of knowing I died while she was curling my toes. Hell of a way to go though. My wife looks as good now as the day we were married, 23 years ago. I might buy stock in Viagra just to be able to continue having sex with her well into senility.
Me, That's who! I want to be having sex until I die at or past 100 years. I expect to die from too much sex and die in the middle of it.
Sex keeps people healthy a lot longer and even delays senility.
Keep on Rockin' Grandma!
Any ladies in their 80s will be just right by me!
War Ranger, the mortician would never get that smile off your face.
glad you are so happy with your wife, kudos to both of you for picking well
love your satisfaction
how about dying after great sex, asleep in her arms at 90, a smile on your face...that way you won't even feel pain or know!
Allowing residents in nursing homes to have sex is part of the basic resident rights a facility has to uphold. Of course, there are some criteria that need to be considered when it comes to someone who is unable to make a decision about having sex or lovemaking with someone. Those who are unable to make a decision about this need to be evaluated by their doctor, in conjunction with family and staff, such as their social worker for this ability. If someone has more than moderate dimentia needs to be protected from what could be an unwanted advances from another person.
Of course there are a few challenges that have to be addressed. One is the situation where a resident lives in a double room. No matter how difficult this is, a facility has the responsibility to accommodate this. This can be looked at as a creative opportunity for staff to come together and take ownership for solutions.
Another challenge is that many staff members initially may feel a sense of disgust according to their own personal values and beliefs about older adults having sex in the first place. They would need some in-depth training on how to handle this situation when it arises because it isn't about them, it is about the individual they are working for.
State and federal regulators need to be very aware of this issue and place their full support of resident rights when it comes to conjugal, sexual orientation and any other basic human rights. Just put yourself in the shoes or our older citizens as a whole, whether they are in a nursing home or living in your neighborhood.
The question ought to be, "Why are we so prudish in general?"......even in 2012, there are parents who REFUSE to talk to their kids about sex, because they're embarrassed or ashamed. Some won't even let them take sex ed. There are mothers who neglect to tell their daughters about their periods, I've read stories about that online....soooo many of those stories said things like "I was terrified" "I freaked out" "I started crying in the bathroom, and my mother found me"......REALLY??? Talk to your children people, that way this kind of thing can be avoided!
Get this, there are actually "puberty books"......yeah, great idea. You take an already hormonal, emotional, stressed out teenager, give them a book full of unfamiliar terms and subjects, then leave them alone to navigate through it, instead of TALKING to them. Puberty books are GREAT for parents who are embarrassed and ashamed. It's called THE TALK not "the book".
The reason we're still so prudish, is because there are STILL adults out there, whose parents taught them to be ashamed and repressed, and now it's being passed on to the next generation. Religion is also a contributing factor. Repression needs to be STOPPED.
When you tell a young woman that her worth, values, and code lie between her legs, do you REALLY think that's going to make her comfortable and confident with her body/sexuality?
I've seen advice columns with titles similar to: "I caught my toddler masturbating, is it normal", or WORSE, "I caught my daughter masturbating, how do I break her of it"....I even saw one on Yahoo Answers "I caught my child masturbating, how should I punish them". Yep, there are STILL people who are overly worried, or they condemn exploring....When you make a bigger deal out of masturbation then you should, try to shame it, and turn it into a taboo, do you REALLY think that you're not scarring your kid for life?
I could list more and more examples, but you get my point.............you know what I'M ashamed of? The fact that it's 2012, and people can't get over the CRIPPLING shame, embarrassment, and repression.....come on people, get it together already. Find some way to RISE ABOVE these primitive, unhealthy views on sexuality and the body.
Although I am not political and have no political party leanings whatsoever, a large part of the problem is the ' Moral Majority " fundamentalist throwing the Bible and their uptight views at everyone. They want us to be as miserable as they so obviously are.
As a former CNA working in nursing homes it was the policy of the nursing homes I have ever worked in at least here on the west coast, Washington, that if we came to a room where there was a married couple or a random couple engaging in "close encounters" we were to just pull the curtains and close the door and alert the nurse in charge. There was no big deal. We just let them enjoy themselves and went on about our business. Of course if the couple were residents not married but met in the home and engaged we notified the families to let them know that there was a potential for said activity or that there was that activity happening. Even if they were alzheimers or not. Most of the time the families were OK with it because 99% of the time the spouse was dead and didn't remember them anyway. I feel that if two consenting adults want to have sex in a nursing home they should be allowed the dignity to do so. Sex is very theraputic for the elderly as well as the rest of the world. It releases the good endorphens in the brain and can give one a feeling of euphoria and well being. It can make you feel happier, content and easier for one to get along with. And working with some alzheimers patients we can use all the help we can get!!! That being said, just because you are old doesn't mean that the last enjoyable act in the world should be denied no matter the circumstance, especially in a nursing home!!!
There are ppl in there 90's that still enjoy a healty sex life. That is what keeps them going and healthy... I hope to God that I am still sexually active at that age... or die doing it... what a way to go...
Have great sex and die in your sleep in the arms of the love of your life...that' s even better
wish that on you, in very old age after a satisfying life, and on me as well
great post.
MLS is right. In fact sex in nursing homes should be encouraged, not just tolerated. Sex prolongs life and your quality of life. As long as the CNAs like MLS don't mind assisting with the occasional awkward "dismount" :) why not?
Thanks to the Puritan roots of America, we are still being taught that having fun, enjoying oneself is evil (when somebody else does it)
Fun fact: Puritans even outlawed the celebration of Christmas for several decades! Just in the off-chance that people would get some enjoyment at least out of their own repressive religion! Thou shall have no fun!
With that kind of repression though, I bet some of the puritans were probably the horniest and kinkiest deviants around....
Just as long as there is no staff involvement, I say "go for it."
....and I'd NEVER let anyone put me in a religiously based nursing home. The baptists have taken over....and ruined....several good ones already.
As a younger person, having sex as an old person- with an old person doesn't exactly sit well... Maybe it's a matter of perspective but when I get old I hope I can do like Hugh Hefner
Then I suggest you get a few million dollars, cameras, and a big ass house. Throw in a few high end sport cars and a Maybach or Bentley. That will get you on the right track.
And just by experience, I have noticed that your very good looking women like you see in those mags are stuck up bitches only interested in what you can do for them, with no reciprocity. Before I met my wife, I was stationed in Germany for 5 years. I am not a male model by any standard, but physically I am above par. I am 6'3", 237lbs. In my prime I was running about 12-13% body fat. Women do find that attractive. I found out that the average, to slightly chubby girls, were much more fun than the real lookers. The model type women in general seem to think that they don't need to do anything but lay there looking pretty. NOT MUCH FUN!!
It could be that your personality is shallow. I bet that's it.
Ranger- sounds good man!
Yeah, I have no use for the frigid, bitchy types like "Kate" who posted something stupid above there! Isn't that right Kate? I bet that's it. :)
you lack an imagination
@ kate,
Shallow? Where did you come up with the idea that I was shallow? If anything, I am stating the exact opposite. I cannot stand shallow people, especially shallow women whom think that just because they have good physical features, everyone needs to bow and grovel at their feet. Their good looks are more than outweighed by their ugly attitude. I would not call being married to the same woman for 23 years, "shallow". I simply stated that my level of physical fitness made up for my lack of model handsomeness and allowed me to "interact" with some rather good looking females while stationed in Europe. I found them to be demanding, bitching, rude, hard to please, and very high maintenance. All because of their facial/body features. Not easy to keep up with the demands when your living on E-5 Sergeant pay. i did start making much more money as I progressed up the chain of command. I simply found that the average women were much more compatible and easy to get along with. I stopped looking for a supermodel and found myself much more happy.
And yes, I am proud of my level of fitness. I am 46 years old and physically put to shame men half my age. It helped me in a rewarding Infantry career of 26 years and doing things that would make most people fall by the wayside begging for mercy or Dropping On Request. That's not called being shallow, it's called PRIDE.
can't they call a cab for a night out at some nice motel?
George:
No they sold the house, took the kid's inheridance, their Social Security and their last dime to pay for the room in the nursing home. No money left for any other activities.
Kid's inheritance? What did they do to other than survive and sponge off their parents then drop them like a bad habit? Any money left when I go takes care of my wife first; then the dog and finally to some neighbors that were nice to us when we got old. I put the property in a trust; so, no one can touch it.
I really wish I wouldn't have read this now...
My parents never helped me to get laid, never talked to me about sex, never even encouraged that I go out and do it. Why should I help or worry about them having it in a nursing home?
And please spare me the "because they're your parents and you're supposed to love them" responses.
Were your 'parents' the parents of my best friend in High School, Sheila W. ? Sounds familiar !!