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Subscribe to RSSAn increasing number of parents may be choosing to delay or limit certain vaccinations for their young children, a new study shows, even as cases of pertussis, or whooping cough, continue to rise nationwide, with recent outbreaks in California and Washington.
The study, which examined medical records for 97,711 Portland children, found an almost four-fold increase between 2006 and 2009 in the percentage of parents who delayed or skipped vaccinations, researchers reported in the journal Pediatrics. Experts say that by delaying certain vaccinations, parents may be putting their children -- and those of others -- at a far greater risk of contracting deadly diseases, such as pneumonia and pertussis.
The new study examined the vaccination histories of children born in the Portland area between 2003 and 2009. Between 2006 and 2009, the number of parents who rejected government recommendations and made up their own vaccine schedules rose from 2.5 percent to 9.5 percent.
While the researchers could not say how typical the Portland results are compared to other areas around the country -- Portland schools reportedly have some of the highest vaccine exemption rates in the U.S. -- a 2011 study published in Pediatrics found that 13 percent of parents nationwide were using alternative schedules. Another study published in Public Health Report in 2010 found that almost 22 percent of parents were deviating in some way from the CDC's recommendations for infant vaccinations -- either by delaying shots, leaving out certain vaccines, or skipping vaccinations altogether.
The vaccine delays may not completely explain recent whooping cough outbreaks in states such as California and Washington, but “they certainly don’t help,” said Dr. Jaime Deville, a UCLA professor of infectious diseases in the pediatrics department.
The main reason parents give for delaying shots is fear their children will be harmed by receiving multiple vaccines at the same time, according to the study’s lead author, Steve Robison, an epidemiologist at the Oregon Health Authority. The vaccines most likely to be delayed by 9 months were for hepatitis B and pneumococcal disease (pneumonia).
For example, at both the two- and six-month visits the CDC recommends kids get a total of six vaccines. Even with some of them combined that adds up to a lot of shots. By age 4, children receive up to 28 vaccinations, based on the CDC immunization schedule.
Some parents believe they’ll get the same benefit if they spread the vaccinations out over more doctors’ visits rather than getting them all at once.
“There are rumors out there that your body can’t handle that many vaccines, that your body won’t be able to respond appropriately if you get several all at one time,” Robison said.
Experts say vaccines pose no harm to babies; even though multiple shots can be painful for a few moments, they say the consequences of delaying vaccinations can be much worse.
There are reasons for concern over the delayed vaccines. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention there were 2,325 cases of pertussis in Washington state through June 9, 2012, compared to 171 during the same time period in 2011. A 2010 outbreak in California led to 9,143 cases -- including 10 infant deaths -- the most cases in that state since 1947.
"We’d like parents to know that the recommended number of doses of a vaccine is what is needed to build adequate protection levels both for their child and for the community," Robison said. "One dose of a vaccine, such as for pertussis, doesn’t build enough protection."
By 9 months, infants on an alternative vaccine schedule had fewer injections than those with parents following the government recommended schedule -- an average of 6.4 versus 10.4 shots -- and more doctors’ visits for vaccinations.
What’s more, few had caught up with the recommended number of vaccinations by the end of the study.
One big problem with the modified schedule is that parents are bringing children who haven’t been appropriately vaccinated into the doctor’s office more often -- thus putting other kids at greater risk, said pediatrician Dr. Andrew Nowalk, an assistant professor at the Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.
Deville is especially concerned about parents who are choosing to delay the pneumococcal vaccine until age 2. Infants are most vulnerable to pneumonia during the first year of life. "Parents who delay the vaccine until age 2 are leaving their children vulnerable during the period where it occurs at its highest frequency,” Deville said.
An added advantage of the pneumococcal vaccine is that it lowers the amount of bacteria living in kids’ noses and throats, Nowalk said. “So the children who aren’t getting vaccinated are more likely to be carrying the bacteria without being infected and spreading it to others,” he added. “When you don’t vaccinate your child you’re not only putting your child at risk but also those of others.”
Further, Nowalk said, there are lots of kids out there with immune deficiencies -- those with leukemia, or depressed immune systems because of organ transplants, for example -- who can't get vaccines. So they have to rely on everyone else getting vaccinated.
“When enough of the population is immunized, transmission is essentially stopped,” Deville explained. “The bottom line is that immunizations are extremely safe. They have the most value of any of our interventions when it comes to prolonging life and preventing diseases – not only for our own children but also for the community.”
Health officials in Washington state say whooping cough has reached epidemic levels. Hundreds of cases have been reported so far this year, six times more compared to the same period in 2011. NBC's Mike Taibbi reports.
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If they keep this up, eventually a strain of pertusis will emerge that is vaccine resistant. What fun we will have then. Welcome back to the dark ages, America. People who refuse to be responsible for their children and put others at risk should be arrested and charged with reckless endangerment and given jail time. People who refuse to vaccinate their children are riding on the shoulders of those who did..me, for one.
Here's the funny thing about the pertussis vaccine. It does NOT prevent transmission, it only prevents the person who is vaccinated from catching it. So you could be a carrier, not sick and pass it along to anyone else regardless of if you are vaccinated or not. This information comes directly from the vaccine manufacturer white sheets. Then you also have the fact that vaccines have been discovered to not infer the "lifetime immunity" as previously thought, resulting in more adults who are no longer immunized.
so if you're vaccinated you don't have to worry about getting pertussis. End of worry!
lillipop
Your comment says it all.
No further discussion needed.
Monkey-
Where is your data about transmission coming from? You can't carry a bacteria without being infected by it.
The lifelong immunity has been disproven for at least 10 years. If you watch the news or read a newspaper or visit a doctor, you would know.
You should educate yourself instead of spewing out misplaced blame and hate. The people who are questioning the vaccine schedule are educated people.
http://www.kpbs.org/news/envision/whoopingcough/
"When immunity fails"
The vaccine is for the toxin the bacteria releases.
You can be an "educated" person with a Bachelor's in Computer Science and not know squat about how the body works.
A smart person would know that this is not their specialty and not try to pretend that they know about immunity and health issues when they don't.
Once enough of them stop getting vaccinated, then we'll just be in trouble, like we're seeing in California and Washington.
The point is it's not a bunch of ignorant hillbillies being negligent
Watch video I posted above which is about the California epidemic and questions with the vaccine itself.
While I support vaccines wholeheartedly, I also wonder if spacing them out would be more beneficial to kids who are sensitive to them. Since you don't know who those kids are until after the fact, setting a limit on how many shots you can get at once seems reasonable. Yes, the article points out the dangers of increased doctor's visits, but I think that's an acceptable risk. Do the most dangerous shots first.
I don't know about jail time, but I certainly believe in vaccinating. I personally get a flu shot every year (as do my kids), not so much for myself, but for others. I have a co-worker who has rhumetoid arthritis, who can't take the vaccine, but has a poor immune system due to her meds. The flu might make me feel bad for a few days, but it could potentially put her in the hospital. The daycare my kids go to sometimes has infants too young to be vaccinated, and our vaccinations help protect them too.
"Therefore, children do not receive their first live viral vaccines until about 12 to 15 months of age. Most children with severe T-cell deficiencies (eg, severe combined immunodeficiency syndrome) will have been identified by 6 to 8 months of age."
So children with these problems are already identified beforehand if on a regular schedule.
doi: 10.1542/peds.109.1.124
Children don't receive their first live vaccine (MMR) because of safety concerns, they receive it at this time because of efficacy concerns. Maternal fetal antibodies, which protect the baby, reduces the effects of the vaccine. breast feeding can also reduce the effectiveness of some vaccines. Drug company Scientists and CDC scientists don't like this.
Persistence of maternal antibody in infants beyond 12 months: Mechanism of measles vaccine failure
Robert, please share where you got the information that maternal antibodies and breast feeding can reduce the effectiveness of vaccines, because what you posted is nothing but an abstract. The full text is not there, and I highly doubt you even understood the abstract.
All kids are sensitive to vaccines. That is why the vaccines are given; they train the immune system against the real disease. When children were born in the pre-vaccine era, they were immediately exposed to all of these diseases. Some died from them. The reason why half our kids don't die before their 1st year has a lot to do with anti-biotics and vaccination.
I doesn't matter what you think. This is the reason the CDC recommends vaccinating for measles at 12 months. I can't help it if you've never heard of it. If you have alternate ideas then tell us why do they not give the vaccine at 2 or 4 months, please? Please enlighten us.
... You're saying that vaccines might harm my child? I hear that the diseases might KILL my child.
Hm.... I'll go with Vaccines.
most likely no. Even before vaccines your child was 99.9999% not likely to die from measles.
robert,
how did i know you'd be against vaccines too? Its all becoming clear now
Your paper on maternal antibodies proves nothing. True, maternal antibodies seem to interfere with vaccine efficacy if given within the first 12 months.
So what?
Maternal antibodies don't last forever--you need to get protection from measles somehow. I don't see how that study proves that vaccines shouldn't be given or don't work
thats laughable and belies a serious knowledge deficiency on your part
Prove it. And then tell me what the chances were that the child would end up infertile or suffer deafness? Or other permanent disabilities even if he/she lived?
It shows exactly what I said to be true. Maternal fetal antibodies interfere with vaccines therefore the policy is to wait until antibodies is waned. Said policy makers believe 12 months is a good time. Whats the problem?
Or what?
Ok Mr. Cardiologist wannabe. Can you do math? Before vaccines 450 died from measles. U.S population was around 150 million. divide 450/150 million = 99.99975 of the population didn't die from measles in a given year.
If you want to be an ignorant fear mongerering vaccine promoter you should have this scientific data. If you use relative rates then give absolute numbers this rate is based on? You know what? Don't bother because you don't have that data let alone what it's based on.
thats Dr. Cardiologist wannabe. Get it right
not the maternal antibodies, the vaccine protecting against the toxin, not the bacteria. Thats why I quoted your direct statement regarding the toxin right above it. Wow, just wow.
In roughly the last 150 years, measles has been estimated to have killed about 200 million people worldwide.[43] During the 1850s, measles killed a fifth of Hawaii's people.[44] In 1875, measles killed over 40,000 Fijians, approximately one-third of the population.[45] In the 19th century, the disease decimated the Andamanese population.[46]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles
yeah, youre right. Measles is harmless...
eric: While I happen to agree with most of what you're saying, you need to do a little research before belittling someone else on theirs:
OK Dr. Cardiologist Wannabe
That's a logical fallacy. I didn't say measles was harmless. It's dishonest on your part.
But could you tell me how many of the above populations were killed in 1960? Why did the death go down drastically? It wasn't because of vaccines. Could you tell of the living conditions in these populations during these time periods. What was their nutritional status? Were they at war? What were other infectious diseases statistics in the same population?
Don't try and scare me with logical fallacies,out of date, and out of context statistics.
YOu might as well tell us how many africans and third world country people die of measles if you want to use big numbers. Since you're on a dishonest fear mongering role.
Also tell them how you admittedly and purposefully overtreat 97-99% of your patients to find the theoretical 1%.
I don't like being part of doctors little altruistic experiments.
http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/oregon-parents-reject-government-vaccine-schedule-pediatrics-journal/
"At an April 2000 NY/Cornell Medical School lecture on ‘Vaccines in the New Millennium’ by Samual Katz, when I asked what peer-reviewed, published safety study he used when he was ACIP Chairman to recommend at-birth immunization of newborns with hepatitis B vaccine in 1991 he answered: “you are quite right there was no published peer-reviewed study.”"
"At the February 1999 ACIP meeting I attended, Chairman Modlin voted for and pushed a vaccine recommendation for a rotavirus vaccine that was subsequently withdrawn from the market (for causing life-threatening bowel obstructions) saying: ‘Obviously a situation where we have to make a judgment in the absence of data, and with a vaccine that has not yet been tested in the group …” (ACIP transcript, pages 102-112)."
ag99,
unfortunately in this case you are the one who needs more research
The compound you describe is not the one that is commonly used in the DPT vaccine
Good for all the parents!! They do NOT want high levels (or ANY level) of Thermerisol (mercury) injected in their kids!!
What is interesting is that the meningitis vaccine that is being pushed does not include the strain that causes most people in college or military to develop meningitis. That strain has protein in the wall of the bacteria that too closely resembles human brain protein and would therefore potentially cause brain damage if given. Yet it is the most common of the meningiococci to cause epidemics in the U.S.
I recently asked a friend who is an Infectious Disease specialist when I should take the pneumonia vaccine and was surprised when he said it was not that effective.
I can understand delaying Hep. B vaccination for a while. I have seen kids get 4 shots at one time. That borders on torture and what if you have an allergy to one of them? You would not know which one.
The myths about Thermerisol have been repeatedly proven to be BS.
Merck being sued by their virologists for fraud over the overstated efficacy of the MMR vaccine.
Here is the lawsuit:
http://www.rescuepost.com/files/june-mumps-suit.pdf
It's always those darn non complying quack non vaccinators spreading disease. It's always those not adhering exactly to government policy who put people at risk. It's never the corrupt government/corporate entities. It's always YOU. NEVER them.
Hmmm. Funny that the state, Oregon, with the highest rate of vacc. exemption has lower rates of the whoop...
Oh, and for the record, I vaccinate my kids... Just not for flu. It is a scam.
Here's the thing about immunity. Shots don't necessarily stop you from becoming ill. There are a multitude of diseases you can get, for any number of which, there is no vaccine available. So, and this is for all of you doctors out there, shall I place my faith in the jabs, or in my own capacity for taking personal responsibility for my health, and the health of my family, every single day?
I know already that this will be pooh-poohed as "anecdotal" but I was (as was my four year old) exposed repeatedly to both influenza AND whooping cough last "season," and never got sick once. Yet... everyone I knew that was so gung-ho about getting their recommended vaccines was down with various things all winter long. Much anecdotal evidence regarding the "Spanish Flu" concurs with this observation.
I'll continue to vaccinate my kids against things I deem necessary, and pay attention to the food I eat and the water I drink, and the amount of sleep everyone gets, and the amount of stress... works great. Haven't really been sick in about five years... since my last flu shot. Hmmm...
why are they mutually exclusive in your mind?
yup
Why should someone place faith in the mumps jab, doctor?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22381073
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20822347
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21576295
Null and void with these scientists coming forward, doctor.
http://www.cdc.gov/mumps/outbreaks.html
Mumps outbreak spreads among people who got vaccinated against mumps
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/028142_mumps_vaccines.html#ixzz1yrnI0eff
http://www.dailycal.org/2011/10/10/mumps-outbreak-at-uc-berkeley-grows-to-over-40-cases/
Mumps outbreak reaches nearly 2,000 in New York and New Jersey
Vaccine Not Fail-Safe in Ongoing Mumps Outbreak
CDC says more than 1,500 cases have been reported in New York, New Jersey
one study was finnish, thus making all your posts regarding AMERICAN scientists irrelevant
further, all your studies prove is that the vaccine is not perfect, not that it is worthless
http://www.beyondconformity.co.nz/_blog/Hilary%27s_Desk/post/Former_Merck_Scientists_File_Suit_Against_Merck_Under_the_False_Claims_Act_/
That's not the point. The point is your religious authorities will lie to you and every other public health authority. And they will lie to protect their profits and keep the lie going.
"Just trust us"
opinion without any facts/evidence
Why don't you read my studies robert? Scared?
finns don't have the profit motive in their system like we do
guess again, robert
You don't know how to read. You are a blind medical doctor. Your patients should know about this. Merck committed fraud. What else do they do, doctor? It's your job to protect your patients from them.
but when your "authorities" dismissing vaccines say something, they always tell the truth?
Why is it that people who disagree with you are lying, while people who support your view are telling the truth
How convenient
All one has to do is type in "hid side effects" into a search engine (something a medical doctor is incapable of doing for his patients) and see that the same companies who are committing fraud and injustice with pills are some of the same ones who make vaccines. Do they have situational ethics? You should be ashamed that you don't question them yourself. Tsk. Tsk.
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2012/06/22/12354895-medicine-agency-roche-did-not-report-side-effects
Medicine agency: Roche did not report side effects
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/06/25/scientists-sue-merck-allege-fraud-mislabeling-and-false-certificaion-of-mmr-vaccine-suzanne-humphries-md/
irrelevant--none of my studies were done by merck
try again...
Merck committed fraud! Their own virologists admitted it and they are now suing. I don't really have anything else to say. If you don't believe it then...You can put your head in the sand and try to rationalize it. There is no evidence that vaccines are special and above fraud. If a company does it in one area they can do it in another. Now there is evidence that fraud is being committed with vaccines. The public was lied to in order to gain profit.
Drugmakers have paid $8 billion in fraud fines
http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/morefraudbymerck/
“Protocol 007”: Merck Scientists Accuse Company of Mumps Vaccine Fraud that Endangers Public Health
Merck Settles Consumer Fraud Lawsuit
1st link-
has to do with merck alledgedly giving kickbacks--nothing to do with vaccines. Irrelevant
2nd link
has to do with price fixing. Irrelevant
4th link
has to do with marketing drugs for off label indications. Irrelevant
Basically, what you are trying to say is "merck lies about lots of things; they say vaccines work--therefore, they must be lying and vaccines don't work"
That kind of logic doesn't hold water. Merck could lie about everything BUT vaccines for all you know. And the fact that my links show independent verification of vaccine efficacy proves they work, despite merck's alleged nefarious business practices
your 3rd link is interesting. If true, it would certainly undercut merck's credibility and data with regards to vaccines. But you have a couple problems you are ignoring
1) There is independent confirmation of vaccine efficacy by labs around the world that have no financial incentive from merck or anyone else
2) Nothing is proven yet. Still just allegations
Robert & Eric: I've been reading your comments back and forth to each other. Regardless of how I feel about vaccinations, I believe Eric is winning this argument. His reasoning is the most logical and Robert, you have gotten waaay too emotional about the subject to be objective! Your emotion is palpable in your writing. I suggest you chill with a cool glass of water, take a few deep breaths, and accept that you can't win them all. Have a good one -- both of you.
thanks!
I really just go with where the majority of the evidence is. There are a few studies and statistics pointing towards vaccine inefficacy, but many, many, many more studies confirming their efficacy. These studies are both independent, NIH funded, and industry funded
The only logical conclusion is that vaccines work
Merck vaccine fraud exposed by two Merck virologists; company faked mumps vaccine efficacy results for over a decade, says lawsuit
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036328_Merck_mumps_vaccine_False_Claims_Act.html#ixzz218DOH7Fq
You can read the lawsuit for yourself.
UNITED STATES DlSTRICTCOURT
FOR TIlE llASTERN DISTRIcrOF'P~SYLVANlA
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/27/MerckUnsealed.pdf
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/27/47851.htm
NEJM editor: "No longer possible to believe much of clinical research published"
Eric:
http://www.ajc.com/health/cdc-whooping-cough-rising-1480942.html
Whooping cough has generally been increasing for years, but this year's spike is startling. Health investigators are trying to figure out what's going on, and theories include better detection and reporting of cases, some sort of evolution in the bacteria that cause the illness, or shortcomings in the vaccine.
you already posted the first link, and I already commented on it. I'll just repost it
your 3rd link is interesting. If true, it would certainly undercut merck's credibility and data with regards to vaccines. But you have a couple problems you are ignoring
1) There is independent confirmation of vaccine efficacy by labs around the world that have no financial incentive from merck or anyone else
2) Nothing is proven yet. Still just allegations
a) they state two possibilities which do not rule out vaccine efficacy
b) worst case scenario--the vaccine is not 100% effective.
that hardly proves the vaccine is worthless. There's a lot of room between 0% and 100% robert. Viruses and bacteria are tough little buggers--many now show resistance to some of our stronger antibiotics
Using your logic, that would mean antibiotics are worthless too
These are the same old arguments you have trotted out over and over again. Basically, Merck is evil, and vaccines don't have 100% efficacy
Neither, even if true, make vaccines worthless
Tree201, if your daughter dies of whooping cough, you'll be responsible for her death. You'll also be mourning for the rest of your life. OTOH, those of us who pay health insurance premiums will be paying for her care and treatment.
We vote you vaccinate her so she doesn't get infected. (This is for her sake, not yours.) Speaking on behalf of those of us who pay taxes and health insurance premiums, vaccinate your daughter. She deserves every chance to grow up healthy with her brain and learning ability intact.
The Public Health Departments of every city and state have the right to vaccinate every citizen at gunpoint. Look it up, it's happened before and it can and will happen again.
There will be trolls from the pharmaceutical companies jumping on here shortly to tout the latest and greatest vaccines. The argument will ensue and no one will win. If you don't want to vaccinate, don't buckle under to fear tactics and pressure. If you do want to vaccinate, just do it! Leave the rest of us alone.
By not vaccinating you are showing flagrant disregard for the human population in general. If you don't catch this it's because everyone around you is vaccinated. What right do you have to pose a risk to public health and safety? Vaccinating should be FEDERAL law...one irrisponsible individual could cause a plague and kill millions...why should anyone have that right???
Why should I have to worry about my daughter becoming sick and possibly dying because some idiot won't vaccinate their child?
Because your vaccine doesn't work the way you've been led to believe and herd immunity of whooping cough is a delusion.
That's a heaping load of vaccine ignorance and fear mongering right there.
Most of the people carrying pertussis are vaccinated.
Federal law to allow yourself to be injected with ANYTHING!?? You've got to be kidding....
Correct, because the vast majority are vaccinated and over time the effectiveness reduces. The vast majority of carriers are adolescents and adults who have had the vaccine in their childhood.
However, like most diseases, heard protection is still important, because once too few kids get the vaccine the outbreak can spread very quickly and aggressively.
Having had pertussis and a child with pneumonia - believe me, you don't want your child, or your neighbor's child, catching or spreading either one!
In who? the vaccinated? Apparently so!
One vaccine. One ingredient
http://www.14studies.org/
Congratulations - you've now declared that your 'choice' to become a public health risk trumps the rights of the people around you.
Congratulation on misusing logic in what is called a logical fallacy. It's dishonest.
Besides that it shows your ignorance and lack of critical thinking. Please show where lack of vaccinating has "trumped someone's rights". Please name the person, also.
I totally agree with Robert-1126350........You even show how there is no study done on vaccines and people still are so brainwashed by the hype that they are closing their minds to logic. Trying to scare everyone and even forcing people to harm their children because they believe......we all have a right to choose on whether we want to vaccinate or not.....I watched the documenatary on Vaccines and Dr. Barbara Loe Fisher made some very great points. Look in the National Vaccine Information Center and there is some great information. These vaccines are about $$$$. These Pharmaceutical companies don't care if they injure children, they just want to get paid.
So you think all trolls come from pharma companies? Sorry, but they come from anti-vaccine groups as well. I was alive and remember when people died and whose lives were seriously changed by those diseases. My ex almost died at 16 even from chicken pox...never had the shot. I remember people with polio and pertussis, and yes, measles too. I saw what happens when people don't get vaccinated, and you can call that whatever you want, but it wasn't my imagination and it was horrible. Sure pharma wants money and sure vaccines aren't perfect by any means. But the fact remains that people DO get sick and some die or are permanently affected by preventable diseases. Spin it how you want...that is true.
Those of you who complain if those who are vaccinated shouldn't worry if they are vaccinated so who cares? You don't get who this works. Babies who haven't had their shots or finished them, adults who didn't come up as kids when particular shots were out, or whose immunity wore off, those with compromised immune systems...they don't get a choice when those who choose not to vaccinate come around them. I know, it is all a conspiracy and so forth and vaccinates are poison...tell that to people who have had those diseases or parents who lost kids to them. Yes, there are conspiracies, but they aren't all by pharma. There are many groups who benefit by the anti-vaccine furor, too.
I am a firm supporter of vaccination but even I can't agree with making it illegal to choose not to vaccinate your kids. I think it's stupid not to, but everybody has the right to be stupid.
I DO believe that if you choose not to vaccinate, then your insurance premiums should be higher -- unless you have a diagnosed condition which precludes vaccination.
My two cents -- flame away
I agree with you here. That would be unconstitutional. And I believe that people also have the right to know that vaccines don't work a lot of times. The "vaccines aren't 100%" crowd knows this. People should also know that their own immune system is plenty for most infectious viruses or bacteria in the majority of the time. And they should also know that sometimes vaccines themselves are harmful to babies and adults. With this in hand they should be able to choose for themselves. Not have a bunch of propagandized rabid dogs putting emotionally charged irrational pressure on them.
That would be up to the insurance companies themselves. My kids hardly ever go to the doctor and are very healthy. Healthier than the average vaccinated baby. This saves insurance companies money because we pay more in premium than we pull from the system.
I have to agree that nobody should be forced to be vaccinated if they choose not to, however much like the public health system responded to typhoid in the 19th century they should be quarantined in order to protect the majority of the public. As an adult I'm not too concerned about pertussis itself but bodies weakened by one disease are more easily open to co-infection and with the global mobility of our world that could mean seeing some of our old friends like polio.
I willingly quarantine myself, and anyone in my household should they fall ill... with anything.
You know, my son nearly died from an RSV infection at four months old. ANY respiratory infection (even RSV, which for toddlers, etc., is little more than a runny nose) can kill an infant. Any fever for that matter...
Furthermore, WHY is it that the pertussis numbers are not representing only the lab-confirmed cases? There are other commonly misdiagnosed respiratory infections, but they are all lumped together to inflate the numbers. Same is true with influenza...
Again, not ANTIvaccine, just rightfully skeptical...
Read the book "Evidence of Harm" and see whete Autism really comes from and stop listening to Big Pharma.
Does it bother you at all that the doctor who started all of this autism-vaccine link stuff is a criminal who no longer practices medicine? His whole hypothesis was a fraud.
Autism has now been linked to obesity in the mother and the complications caused by this. I don't blame the parents of autistic kids for trying to sue the government and get money needed to help care for these kids who many times have to have someone with them 24/7. But the tax payer is not to blame as are not vaccines and we are not financially responsible for these children.
When anyone says "Read this or that book" it generally turns out to be some conspiracy theory screed dissing modern medicine.
Is this your personal experience and opinion?
Yes it is.
I have read books people have given me along the lines of "What Your Doctor Doesn't Want You To Know" etc. and find them to be full of ridiculous crap.
The link between Autism and vaccines has been thoroughly studied and determined to be false.
The link between Autism and vaccines has been thoroughly studied and determined to be false.
Yes, and the safety of Vioxx, Celebrex, Statins, Cymbalta, etc. were thoroughly studied and determined to be safe and effective. Until they weren't. If and when your medical gods tell you that these vaccines are unsafe (usually when the original patent runs out and they have something else to sell you) you will screaming that of course those are unsafe but these aren't. I have no problem with people who do their research and decide to vaccinate. It is when they start telling me what I have to do or not do that there is a problem. Also, statistically, those who scream about protecting their health by forcing others to vaccinate are overweight, eat junk food, drink sodas and generally live horrible lifestyles.
That is scientifically inaccurate. The study investigated one vaccine and it did not find a causal link. This is not the same as saying "there is no link".
Acting like there's only been a single study between autism and vaccines.
Robert, nor is their a correlatory link in sufficiently large sample populations. To me, this means "no link."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090130093407.htm
Autism is but one health risk to vaccines. There are others.
If you have a study that draws a link between, for instance, male hair loss and and low testosterone and you later find the data from the study was fabricated, it doesn't mean that there is no relationship between the two. What it means is that you don't consider the data in your analysis. You simply treat the fabricated data as if it doesn't exist. To say Wakefield was discredited so now there is no evidence of a link between vaccines and autism is a straw man.
If you have over 30 studies that show a correlation that came after Wakefield, you don't simply dismiss those 30 studies. It's not called search, it's called . . . RE search. You continue to study. The huge gap that is the real problem is the scientific cold war between vaccine makers and independent research. You can't get the two sides to the same table. You can't get a public dialogue between the two sides of the scientific spectrum. You can't even get vaccine proponents to sit on the same panel discussion if there is anyone there who merely questions vaccine safety.
Until you do, were left with a solution that doesn't serve the public good. Trading accelerating auto-immune response (and perhaps far worse) for security (maybe?) from infectious disease. And with vaccine makers immune from prosecution for design defects, you have no natural incentive for them to come to the table, consider the safety research, and take advantage of technological advances.
Hurling ad hominems at your opponent position doesn't get us any closer to workable solution either.
Why are the vaccine makers the only ones doing the studies for efficacy and safety.
I'm hard pressed to accept, at face value, the word of a giant corporation; especially the kind (pharmaceutical) that are carelessly responsible for more deaths than any other cause.
More selfish religio-nuts putting themselves and everyone else around them at risk with hardly a care. Or, people with an Internet connection who think they know more about vaccines than actual scientists. Thanks, a*holes.
This is the type of ignorance and polarizing hatred I'm talking about, Jake. Would you like to discuss some of the science?
and who is there to support the vaccine injured child? you? i don't think so. everyone seems to scram when that happens, including the doctors.
Biscuits-3969445 I couldn't have said it better myself.......
My son is autistic. He showed clear signs of autism from birth before he received any vaccines. I considered whether he should be vaccinated, pondering it with the knowledge he has a genetic immune deficiency.
He received a complete series of vaccines. Absent his ADD, ADHD and Asperger's Syndrome with accompanying gastroparesis, he's healthy.
jake
Couldn't have said it better myself.
The thing with vaccines are they are not for trivial diseases. Vaccines prevent nasty diseases that can lead to many worse complications than vaccines possess.
If you don't vaccinate your child, then you better keep him/her away from mine.
Apparently someone doesn't trust the same vaccine they insist everyone else gets. Oh the dissonance.
Robert-
I trust the vaccine. That doesn't mean that it is 100% effective. What is?
It must be hell for you living in perpetual fear.
See, you've made an assumption. My child is not infectious nor is she sick. statistically you shouldn't even go in public because more vaccinated people spread disease than unvaccinated healthy kids.
oh boy. the old "keep your kid away from mine". you obvioulsy have no faith in your vaccine if you believe that. and as far as I am concerned, it is still a choice in this country to have them or not. until they are proven to be safe and are studied long term, not classifed as unavoidably unsafe, i reserve my right to choose. There has never been one long term study on the current vaccine schedule (or the one 20 years ago for that matter). I think we can all see that we are the unhealthiest and most vaccinated country. Is it from the vaccines? i don't blame them 100% but they sure are a very large factor in the equation
One more thing:
The generation that remembers how horrible these diseases can be is dying out.
Unfortunately, a whole new generation of children is going to suffer needlessly because of their parents' ignorance and paranoia.
Another mass vaccination meme.
Mortality from most infectious disease was dropping drastically BEFORE the use of vaccines.
http://www.healthsentinel.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2654:united-states-disease-death-rates&catid=55:united-states-deaths-from-diseases&Itemid=55
Robert, no crap. It's called chlorinated water, interior plumbing, improved medicine/hospital treatment, and antibiotic availability. Any graph from 1900 will loose the benefit of immunization within the noise. Plus this was a mortality rate, not a incidence rate.
This does not change the fact that immunization has a MASSIVE impact upon disease transmission.
Here is some REAL information from a legitimate source:
http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih1/diseases/activities/activity5_measles-database.htm
Look at the graphs.It's after the fact but "sciency" people are fooled into believing it's the largest contributor and and therefore the most important.
And here's some REAL information on a legitimate souce: the CDC:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthreporig00027-0069.pdf
Robert-
Measles has much higher rates of complications than the vaccine and can be severe if not caught in time.
These diseases are life-threatening. We do not vaccinate against any that do not have severe complications.
Nice article Robert. It points out that "for centuries the measles virus has maintained a remarkably stable ecological relationship with man" and then it goes to point out how in modern urban society the virility and detriment from measels has dramatically increased.
It then goes to conclude:
Your real source advocates for the widespread usage of vaccines.
If vaccines are so bad, how come most of the worlds killer diseases were controlled because of them during the 1950's and onward in time.
Keep reading. They too were overconfident in the vaccine. They article states that if 2/3 of the people were vaccinated then measles would be entirely eradicated.
But the quote I used stands alone. It is the context of the 1960's. There is a change in the propaganda tone today. They treat measles like it was the black plague today. Not so much in 1960. The tone of that article is "let's do it because we can." Not "let's get rid of this huge killer taking our babies left and right."
it has nothing to do with time. Measles is mostly self limiting.In those rare cases, yes, they do need to be timely treated. The way you state it is if all or most cases will become serious if not treated in time. This is blatantly false.
Look at the graphs, Lillipop. Mortality drastically dropped BEFORE the vaccines. Some may say "well the incidence didn't drop on some diseases". Well then don't try and scare people with death and disability and then move the goal posts to incidence.
yes, disease is life threatening in unhealthy people. just like anything. instead of pushing vaccines into a tiny body, doctors should actually be advocating good health, boosting the imune system. instead of a vaccine for this, drug for that, etc. i mean, chicken pox? do you know they actually have a vaccine in the works for hookwork and diareah? no joke, among 100 other useless vaccines. when will it open your eyes? when they require a vaccine for a 2 year old for PMS? is that when people will realize the jokes on them?
Rubella is more dangerous to pregnant women than children, in many ways. Unvaccinated pregnant women who contract this disease always give birth to mentally damaged babies. They're usually deaf and blind as well. Avoid vaccinating your daughters, why not? They'll blame you later for your deficient grandchildren and it will certainly be your fault. It's a ticking timebomb of viral disaster.
You may believe it's a right to avoid vaccinating your children. Vaccination has been performed at gunpoint in the past. It can and will be performed at gunpoint in the future. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.
For parents researching the issue of vaccine safety there seems to be a huge disconnect between the well defined gaps in vaccine safety science and what they hear from CDC, AAP and pediatricians in terms of vaccine safety and the real threat from many of our vaccine preventable diseases. Until these questions are answered, scientifically, vaccination rates will continue to decline.
Vaccines, like any pharmaceutical product, most certainly involve risks both known and unknown. Informed consent to medical risk taking is a human right. You have the right to be fully informed about the benefits and risks of pharmaceutical products – like vaccines - and be allowed to make a voluntary choice about whether or not to take the risk without being punished for it.
The Institute of Medicine issued an historic report last year that acknowledged there is not enough quality vaccine science in the medical literature to determine whether or not many of the vaccines routinely given to children and adults cause more than 100 different types of brain and immune system dysfunction. IOM found that, out of 158 serious brain and immune system disorders reportedly associated with eight different commonly used vaccines, there were either no studies or too few methodologically sound studies to make a causation determination either way for 135 (85%) of them. These are serious inflammatory brain and immune system disorders and range from heart and blood disorders to strokes, sudden infant death syndrome, asthma, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, GBS, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, diabetes and encephalitis that can lead to seizures, learning disabilities and autism. For more information on the IOM Vaccine Safety Review and public comment made by Barbara Loe Fisher of the National Vaccine Information center please use the following link.
As to pertussis/whooping cough outbreaks, there is a very specific reason Dr. Deville tells us that vaccine delays may not explain recent Pertussis outbreaks. A 2010 CA study shows that the majority of cases of pertussis/whooping cough were among fully the vaccinated. [Witt had expected to see the illnesses center around unvaccinated kids, knowing they are more vulnerable to the disease."We started dissecting the data. What was very surprising was the majority of cases were in fully vaccinated children. That's what started catching our attention," said Witt.]
For a commentary on Whooping Cough Outbreaks and Vaccine Failures go to;
National Vaccine Information Center - Your Health. Your Family. Your Choice. www.nvic.org
NVICFactCheck - I agree.......I wish people would wake up!! Pay attention and open their minds!!
One of the biggest issues that we are being faced with deals with the watering down of science and a growing number of people who cannot understand the most basic scientific information. These same people will not just impact their families lives but the lives of others when they refused to practice proven prevention. The tide is not going to change given the current hatred towards anything science related because it does not fit nicely into the dogma package.
Shared nest, that's a bunch of baloney. People's concerns about vaccines do not arise out of an inability to understand science,
Regarding concerns, I took the time to look up the current whooping cough numbers in Oregon and they, while elevated from last year, are remarkably lower than WA or CA, where the vaccination rates are higher... I find this to be an interesting correlation. (correlation, while not equivalent to causation, is still significant).
Also, as I would expect the infection rates (per 100,000 people) are substantially higher in densely populated urban/suburban areas. The same is actually true for Washington and California. In densely populated areas, as is the habit of ANY contagion, virulency increases relative to population density. As one moves to outlying and rural areas, the virulence, and the infection rate of any given disease decreases substantially.
One has to wonder if Oregon is reporting, specifically, their lab-confirmed cases of pertussis, or if their rates are substantially lower... One estimate I had seen for WA reported that as many as 85% of cases reported were NOT lab-confirmed. Even at 15%, the numbers prove substantially higher than in Oregon. I cannot, as a thinking person, help but question this FACT and it's implications.
It is also interesting that infection rates in non-vaccinated children and adults are virtually nil. If the lack of vaccination were indeed responsible for recent outbreaks of infectious disease, it would indeed be counter-intuitive for the numbers to be represented in such a pattern. Sadly, though not reported, this has been the pattern of representation, at least of pertussis, across the board.
Why is no one reporting these numbers?
Why does the establishment media fail to mention that the pertussis vaccine has been removed from the vaccine schedule in Australia due to it's having been found to be ineffective, based on independent studies?
These are but a couple of, frankly, valid questions. NOBODY thus far seems willing to provide answers for them. Until questions start being answered, they will persist. It is not a lack of understanding of science.
Does science fail to see the logical fallacy that says that one may improve their health by injecting something toxic into the body? I'm not even talking about mercury, which damages nerve cells directly, but other toxic ingredients like aluminum, etc.
Double post
EngEsq, unfortunately, some folks have made up their minds and REAL information does not compute. Regardless, that's a good site for additional research.
It's really scary how people delude themselves using fake or misleading data and do not look at actual research. I don't care if they hurt themselves, but we are talking about their beliefs potentially hurting their kids and others here. *sigh*
Could you be very specific about which fake or misleading data. The disease and vaccine also please.
EngEsq, the reality is many people feel intimidated when reading through research and do not bother. They wait for someone else to "interpret" the data and then "spell it out" for them in simple soundbites. Unfortunately, we know how that goes when a particular group wishes to play with the facts to suit their own agendas. They spout a line of crap and pass it off as fact (gee this works in politics, too). This is another reason why public education needs advocates to keep science curriculum from being trashed.
You mean like Paul Offit M.D. and his 10,000 vaccines at once ruse?
same could be said for the propaganda that is out there. you don't think that science also spouts a line of crap and pass it off as fact or skew the results in their favor? if you read some of the studies done, in full you will clearly see that they actually only recite the data that is most favorable to them. Time and time again. have you even read the clinical trials on the vaccines that are in the schedule? most of them were not tested very long, and the placebo they use was actually another vaccine. wow, how scientific. I urge people to just read the clinical trials on these vaccines as a starting base.
EngEsq - could you be a love and respond to Robert's and Biscuits' posts for me?
Yesterday my daughter and I lost yet another dear loved one and I can't even think straight. I'm the one who picks up the pieces (too much death in her young life) and it's getting hard doing it alone now. I thought I could post to get my mind off of things, but this hurts too much. . .
If I don't return to the vine, it's been a pleasure.
Rumors. That's a great way to make healthcare decisions. This is what we get when we have an ignorant populace. Half of the people alive today wouldn't be here if it were not for vaccinations, because they're parents would have died or been crippled by polio or some other scourge. Americans are ignornat. We get what we deserve.
True.
Unfortunately, it is the ignorant populace's children who will suffer.
In an odd way, we should thank the people of Oregon for volunteering their babies and children to be guinea pigs in the stupidest experiment since someone had the idea that it might be FUN to see what would happen if he took a whiz on the spark plug of a running lawnmower engine, really . . .
Really! :-o
Baldenario: Very well put...bravo...together they will bring back the bubonic plague!!! They will too, and then, the diseases will mutate and become unresponsive to the vaccines and all other treatment...because of these ignorant and stupid folk...!!!
Lillipop, you're becoming a little irrational on your slippery slope.
If you even bothered to watch the video I posted the one expert speculated that the whooping cough has already mutated and the wrong strain was picked in the 80's.
Is this some sort of parody? There's a lot of ignorance in the above post!
"the bubonic plague...and...and... then mutations... yeh...lot's of mutations...and then the vaccines won't work...and then...oh noooooooo....we're doomed. We're all gonna die. It's the plague!!!!"
@Robert:
If you follow the news, there are reported cases of the plague in Oregon currently, so while what lillipop wrote about bubonic plague might appear to be a non sequitur, it actually is "spot on" as the British say, really . . .
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47832395/ns/health-health_care/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2012/06/15/plague-oregon-cat.html
Really! :-o
I heard. I'm not worried.
From your link:
"The plague is something that is always around. In some areas of the country, they have very regular outbreaks in the rodent community," Yeargain said. "Humans don't tend to come in direct contact with it as much here in Oregon, so we don't think about it as much."
Must be that plague vaccine that wiped it out.
Er... the plague vaccine is extremely dangerous and not recommended for anyone except in very specific cases...
The article states that the UCLA Dr. claims the rise in Whooping Cough is due to non vaccination, but yet the two types of vaccines being delayed are Pneumonia and Hep B? LOL anyone else see that there is no connection and she can't say one causes the other - simple statistics.
This is the sleight of hand propaganda that is commonly used in the media. It's not an accident. It's purposefully misleading.
Dani-
These were just the most common delayed vaccinations. However, it does state that up to 10% of parents were delaying vaccines.
This very discussion is a tragedy, one created by the combination of : 1. a self agrandizing criminal who should be in prison right now, Wakefield; 2. the autism cult combination of guilt-seekers trying to shift blame where there is none, venders/programs/products/suppliment pushers/gurus/schools/speakers/ even a celebrity stripper, all seeking fame or profit; 3. family members, themselves on the spectum who are thus given to black or white thinking, fur'em or agin'em mentality, conspiracy orientation, need to blame, seeking a buck; 4. the media's rush to promote 15 minutes of fame to whatever notion or personage that can be this moments sensation. Whatever happened to Herpes? It didn't go away but it's 15 minutes wore off. Measles encephalitis might not, AND IT IS PREVENTABLE. Wakefield is so very much more an angel of death than Typhoid Mary.
There are actually 29 studies that support Wakefield's findings. plus parents have been refusing vaccines since they came out, which was decades before wakefield was ever known. it gets old when wakefield is brought up over and over again and blamed for the reason people delay or forego vaccines.
Also vaxing your child for the better of the community, well the community should be protected since they are already vaccinated right? So really the kids at risk are the non vaccinated ones, unless you are saying that the vaccines don't work, then what is the point?
Bravo, you can put together the idea of herd immunity. However, you're suggesting that enough children in the communities where the outbreaks are occurring that they currently have herd immunity. :)
Dani-
The vaccines work, but they are not 100% effective, especially without boosters. Additionally, people with weaker immune systems are more susceptible to disease, even if vaccinated.
The vaccines do work...enough to make a difference..just ask the poor folk who contracted polio before the Salk vaccine..they sure do wish they had that one...
Well how would they know if it worked? That makes no sense.
What about acute flaccid paralysis? Does it work for that. What about the Cutter Labs (among other manufacturers) causing polio with their vaccines?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories
You don't have to cite these labs or that lab... your own doc office issues pamphlets these days that tell you the possible side effects. So it's no longer a secret, my children's ped office gives you the information and you do with it what you want.
One vaccine. One ingredient
http://www.14studies.org/
Robert-
These studies use data that were first evidenced in Wakefield's study. If the ground-breaking study that you follow up with is false, then your study loses power.
You know, Robert, Andrew Wakefield's been discredited, right? You are aware of that, correct? There have been quite literally thousands of studies regarding vaccines and autism, and the thimerosal link has been proven again and again to be bunk and hokum. Stop trying to drive hits to your website, stop trying to endanger peoples' lives, and stop posting blatant lies in the hopes of selling your snake oil.
Jim-Hague - you do know that Dr. Walker-Smith, has been completely exhonerated, and that the appeal on Wakefield is pending? You are also aware that Brian Deer is being sued by Wakefield for the lies he told in that case, correct?
Fact remains, there have been ZERO studies of the safety of the current vaccine schedule, ZERO studies on the mutagenicity of the combined assault on the infant's immune system, ZERO recommendations by manufacturers to vaccinate regardless of autoimmune status or allergy history...and that has NOTHING to do with Wakefield!
Parents of children with allergy histories, lack of infection with sexually transmitted diseases, histories of auto-immune diorders AND WITH FAMILY MEMBERS ALREADY AFFECTED BY VACCINE INJURY are using more brains in making these decisions than the fool spokespeople who blame the increase of infection in ONE vaccinated population on the reduced vaccination rate for 2 OTHER viruses!
Pathetic how corrupt and tainted "medical" science has become.
That's not true. Please specify which study you believe is citing Wakefields work. you know you actually have to read the studies first before you assume and dismiss with fabrications?
Please, which study?
Jim, you speak from ignorance and emotion. Thousands of studies? Really? Try 19.
It appears that a lot of the posters here have bought into an emotional propaganda campaign and when challenged can't back up what they believe.
If you believe I lie then please post said lie
I'd be interested in Robert presenting his vast credentials in microbiology, epidemeology, and public health, otherwise his claims are no different than anyone elses who has the internet and passionate opinions.
What "claims" do you challenge as false? And does a parent have to have a microbiology degree to make informed decisions about their children? If that is the prerequisite then why should the government tell us anything? If we have no choice then why should we have knowledge?
I am from Oregon and yes as parents - non religious we have delayed some vaccines with our daughter; we followed the France/Swedish schedule. Which means that by the time that she is 12 years old she will have the same set of vaccines as everyone else. Delaying doesnt mean refusing; and I am sure if the study and the article was written correctly it will show that most parents that are delaying are probably delaying vaccins like chicken pox, hapatitis B , Hepatitis C.
And those choices should be yours as the parents. All these judgmental brainwashed people should keep their opinions to themselves when it comes to what a parent chooses to do with their own child and their health. I have a very big problem with the Government forcing these vaccines on our children without giving a choice. It actually scares me and makes me wonder what their agenda really is behind this. Any other health related issue, we have choices but not this one. It is not right.....and only Parents know what is good for their OWN child!!!
The most important part of the vaccine argument is the matter of personal freedom. The refusal to vaccinate has been described on this discussion as a "flagrant disregard for society" and it has been suggested that choosing to not vaccinate should be a federal crime because not vaccinating should not be a right?
Seriously? If society believes it has that right it is overstepping my right. The vaccination crowd might be able to use the strong arm of the CDC and the AMA to make their arguments and they can go on an exhausting campaign to humiliate and bully the anti-vaccine crowd but they cannot expect to make it a federal crime in a country that protects the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of its citizens.
Furthermore, the vaccination crowd needs to accept the limitations of vaccinations just as they do ignore the risks. Vaccinations are a matter of biology. How on earth are you going to legislate biology? How would it look like? Would we see federal agents knock down your door, remove your children and force medications into their bloodstream?
Is this what the vaccine crowd wants? Because they will not get this. They need to stop forcing their choices on a segment of society that is not willing to go along.
Why should vaccination be considered a choice against diseases that can run amok in society? Where do your rights end and another person's begins? Smokers attempt to use the same argument of personal rights -- but in the end, "your" choice ultimately affects another person.
Bringing back measles and forcing quarantine is a blatant disregard for society. That person interrupted the lives of many people.
When you start forcing pharmaceutical products into societies members because of your fears. That's when.
Buffy-851618.....Good words!! It's good to see that not everyone is so brainwashed, and can actually see that the forcefulness they put into this issue is rediculous. Anytime our freedom of choice is taken away there is cause for concern. We are seeming more and more like a communists country as time goes on....
What the hell are you people so afraid of?
Why do you insist that modern medicine is nothing but one big conspiracy to poison everyone?
Vaccines were created for a reason.
You want to go back to the Middle Ages?
Fine.
Your children may be the ones to suffer the consequences.
@Buffy Yes. That's how people were vaccinated in the past, at gunpoint. Do you believe this wouldn't come again? State and Federal Health Departments have the power from local to the CDC to do perform these actions, if necessary.
It amazes me when people are so ignorant of history. It's happened before and it will happen again, if it comes to that. How do you think smallpox was eradicated?
Th current prejudice against vaccination reminds one of other vaccination fears. In the early 20th Century, the fears were that men would be made impotent by vaccine. It's the same irrational fears.
I'm coming Oregon!!! I love all those science-minded mamas and papas out there!!! :)))
They wouldn't know science if it jumped up and bit them in the ass.
As a new mom, I didn't know where to start my research but it led to memorials of children who have died from vaccines. This little girl died two weeks before my daughter was born. From HEP B vaccine. There are thousands of these stories on websites. I tracked the obituary from here. They are from the town next to us. I also discovered that each time you pay for a vaccine they put it in a fund for compensating people who have died or have had major illnesses due to vaccine.. so have no fear if your child died you can apply for $$ online!!!! You tell me as a mother what the hell am I suppose to do? Not to mention what they put in this stuff. Ignorant huh? Why isn't every mother informed!!!
Perhaps you didn't see all the kids and adults who suffered and died before they were available. yes, some kids do have reactions. The vast majority have none or a mild one. Yes, there is a fund because the fact is and no one said it isn't that some react to vaccines. Many react to the illnesses. It is scary either way, but I did read the clinical trials and I am aware of side effect and dangers of vaccines. But I saw the actual illnesses and they hit whole communities, sometimes with devastation. there are many, many stories of those illnesses.
Also, not all of those deaths actually are from vaccines. Just because a person gets sick near a vaccination date doesn't mean it came from the shot. It is hard and I feel for you. My three kids are all vaccinated and I wouldn't change that at all. I wish you luck with your choice. I am sure you will get pelted with disastrous consequences...I think it is interesting that some say big pharma tries to scare us...read the anti-vaccine websites. They are designed to scare as well. Good luck to you and I wish your family the best whatever you choose.
This is the type of people the the pro mass vaccination propagandist cultivate. It's like they just yearn to just be right. I don't think they even care about people. They tend to be intolerant and angry bigots. Now I'm not talking about people who just take the vaccines because they choose to or don't know any different. I'm talking about the intolerant bigots who also want to shove vaccines down every one elses throats because they have some ideological belief system.
And what would you call your ideology; junk science perhaps?
What, specifically, would you call junk science? Perhaps we could discuss this junk science and what makes it junk instead of science and what makes your science, science instead of junk.
What I'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric and not much in facts and context.
"Many react to the illnesses"?
Yeah, like DIE from them.
Um...has no one heard of being healthy? Sure these diseases have horrible complications...even a cold can kill an immune compromised individual. You keep your immune system up to par, and you don't have to worry about complications. Unfortunately, we cannot eradicate 100% of disease. If anyone thinks that, they must have a definite god-complex. Everyone I've known that had measles has told me how normal it was, everyone had it, and it wasn't a big deal for the most part. And Polio? Paralytic Polio was very rare indeed before Salk, and in general had the highest incidences during summer, correlating with high consumption of refined sugary treats. Find the studies yourself before badgering me for links, they aren't hard to find. But seriously, can someone provide me with a satisfactory study, that was not self-funded? Please provide me a link, I have been looking everywhere for one to no avail. And lastly, to all you whiners who think this should be a socialist nation, if you eat fast food more than a couple times a year, drink diet soda, or have no clue of the benefits of fermentation and the effects of the gut flora on over all health, please stop complaining about vaccine exemptions. We shouldn't have to risk our children for your laziness. Being healthy is about self-control, prioritizing; NOT science. "Smoking does NOT cause cancer," CDC, 1958. It is not an infallible source of knowledge. Stop being so close minded and self righteous.
Amen Lacie. i definately am not going to risk my child for someone else's laziness. i work very very hard to build our imune systems up and eat good whole foods, not the junk that is in every convenience store and corner. i think there is a reason we havne't been sick in years.......but apparently we are just a bunch of disease vectors running around spreading disease.
There are good points on both sides, but be careful: some diseases (german measles) will, in a large fraction of cases, cause birth defects if the mother is exposed during the first trimester. Really, really nasty birth defects. Even if the mom is healthy. Even if the baby is getting plenty of nutrition. The only defense? Vaccinate the mother.
All it takes is the scaremongering news media stimulated by junk science to kill American kids because the media makes parents stupid! Maybe the news journalists should be held liable for medical malpractice. They print junk science, sue them and their news outlet for $1B!
I am one of those parents who delay vaccinations, but not to the degree that the article describes.
Our children do get all of their vaccinations and stay on schedule with the CDC's recommended ages (4 months, 6 months, 12 months, etc), but their shots are spread out in-between.
I have our infants take about 2 vaccinations every 2-4 weeks, depending on if the previous vaccine was live or not (live vaccines need to be spread out by 4 weeks before another is given).
My reason why is if we followed the CDC's schedule, our children receive about 6 different vaccines at once. What if our child has a sensitivity or serious reaction to one of those vaccines? How do we know which one she is sensitive to, just one or all six? Does she delay or not take any more vaccines then since we don't know which one she reacted to, which leaves her vulnerable to catching those other deadly diseases and illnesses?
I like our system, though it is unconventional. We are only "delayed" by 1.5 months compared to children on the CDC's schedule. My children do not experience the fevers, long periods of crying, mild sickness, and abnormally long sleep periods as infants as my first child did when we vaccinated on the CDC's timeline.
I do see the concern in delaying vaccination and discussed my plans with our child's pediatrician before going forward with it (and she approved).
I just wanted to say that not everyone on the delayed schedule is as delayed as the article implies or skipping / picking and choosing which vaccinations to give. I believe vaccinations are necessary and important for my children, I'm just going about it in a different way that, while it is more work carting kids back and forth and keeping track of it, is safer than the CDC's timeline in case one of my children has a reaction to the vaccine.
One statistic missing in the article is the number of vaccinated children who developed whooping cough as opposed to the number of unvaccinated children who developed it. We are suppose to assume that the higher percentage of sick children did not receive the vaccine, but that isn't always the case. Also there are many other variables such as improved hygene, lower exposure to toxins (such as DDT) that are known to interfer with the immune system, limited exposure to raw milk a common medium for many illnesses, etc. that are not taken into consideration when the medical/drug world gives all the credit to vaccines for diminishing cases of polio, measles. etc. The article obviously pro-vaccine also tries to make parents who choose not to follow the one-size fits all mentality feel quilty that they might be endangering someone else's child while all over the world people are starting to ask "What do vaccines really do, and are they being administered in the safest and most effective way?" A good question that needs to be asked.