They do it all the time and that is why I see little credibility in so called studies, I just read them for amusement and entertainment just like the so called news.

So you're a professional statistician? Didn't think so. As I have said many times in my comments: "Denial - it ain't a river in Egypt."

Christopher-

The sample size is large enough to find a big difference. I do work with stats and studies and this is fine.

The atheists are probably oversampled, but only in comparison to global numbers.

These do not invalidate the findings.

red12345, I do not think that you understand science or mathematical probabilities. A scientific hypothesis is a theory in the making. When a theory, such as evolution, is presented, the author has to also present evidence that supports the theory. Darwin and Wallace both presented evidence as to the basic fundamental concept of evolution, which is that species change over time. Darwin then wrote his book, On the Origin of Species, which was published in 1859. The book presents the evidence for evolution of which Darwin knew. Since 1859, there have been many major discoveries in biology, genetics, geology, paleontology, and astronomy. Every single discovery from continental drift to DNA has supported Darwin's great theory. Evolution is to biology as Relativity is to physics. Einstein's theory of Relativity has replaced Newtonian physics. However, for most measurements, well below the speed of light, Newtonian physics are quite accurate. Similarly, on the scale that people live on a day to day basis, the earth is pretty flat. The belief that each species is an immutable kind also is pretty valid over a few human lifespans.

When the fossils were found, they were interpreted as evidence of Noah's flood. The fossils were/are fact. DNA is subject to mutation; that is a fact. The earth is very old, billions of years; that is a fact. None of the "facts" in science have changed. What has changed is how to make sense of the facts. The probability that any theory will be replaced by another theory (better explanation) depends on how testable the theory is and how well it explains known facts. Evolution is very testable and explains biology very well.

Dale - Red is playing dumb to your explanation, he/she already knows that but will continue to the argument, it is convenient in that the means justify the end.....they will lie to themselves and others to justify their beliefs.

Evolution is observed. It's a fact. It's testable. Unless you doubt the existence of atoms, you're just spinning your post modernist wheels.

Also, you can only get the rewards after death if you jump through all the impossible requirements of the religion while your alive. There is also "original sin" as icing on the cake. So it is give to the church, feel the discomfort for the guilt of being a sinner, and then get that addicting relief of religious forgiveness (absolution).

"An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated."

if not, you can get your money back.

know anyone asking for a refund?

"God never listens to what I say
And you don't get a refund
If you overpray"

Rebels.. it is totally scary... in fact TERRIFYING that these people are out loose on the streets and are in positions of responsibility and power and influence when they are clearly NOT in possession of all of their mental faculties. Scares the living @!$%# out of me that people this delusional ( psychotic actually ) can influence our gov't, laws, etc. What I am sorry for and fear for the most is that they pass down the lunacy like a hereditary cancer from generation to generation by forcefully indoctrinating innocent children by poisoning their minds with such nonsense... thus spreading this 'disease of ignorance, hate, violence, guilt, fear, bigotry, misogyny, racism, intolerance. SCARY SCARY SCARY. I wish we could just iradicate religion to rid the world of this virulent plague.

Beware - could not have said it better.

I was one of those kids that got dragged to church and was forced to participate in the mumbo jumbo crap, thank goodness I had an atheist father who offered me the opportunity to escape at 16 and protected me from such lunacy.

Me too. I had a fundy Grandmother who use to drag us all to church every week. Even I knew before I was 10 yrs old that this was all a bunch of fables and stories with no 'truth' whatsoever to it. The Big Bad Book of Bronze Age BullS H I T ( sick to F'ing death of being censored like a child on here ). If I could figure this out as a grammar school child...what does that say about ADULTS who still believe in this nonsensical hogwash ? And any TRUE RELIGIOUS SCHOLAR... is an ATHEIST who studies religion like an archeologist studies artifacts. You cannot be a true SCHOLAR ( that requires intelligence, reason, logic and FACTS ) and practice mythology and magical thinking. The term RELIGIOUS SCHOLAR when thought of as someone who is religious AND intelligent is the ULTIMATE OXYMORON.... with a heavy stress on MORON.

Beware - LOL! Many in my mother's family are fundmentalists (including my mother) and I have such fun with them but they still try to save me.

And yet the church, which believes in this omnipotent, omniscient, loving god...believes this same god is going to send kids to hell for masturbation. The catholic god has too much time on his hands, so to speak.

The Catholic church sets standards that are diametrically opposite to human nature. bob-1008224 mentions masturbation as an example. Just think about it, god (plural in Genesis 1:26 or singular in Genesis 1:27) created humans in our/his image. It follows that god must masturbate because we were made in god's image and masturbation is is what normal humans do. Yet god's church on earth calls masturbation a sin. Priests and nuns are supposed to be celibate. What is amazing is not how many pedophile priests there are, but rather how many priests manage to suppress their normal human sexual desires.

Religion is a type of addiction. Those who are addicted cannot think rationally and cannot acknowledge how hooked they are. Typical religions dose out a whole lot of guilt. They prohibit normal sexual behavior; ban perfectly good foods; ban alcohol, require followers to jump through all kinds of hoops. Religions set impossible standards so that their followers must fail. The goal is to induce guilt. They then temporarily relieve that guilt with confession/prayer/the Eucharist. (That is the fix.) Then the whole cycle begins again.

So Jim, being religious is not being able to think for oneself? If one's thoughts lead you to religion, am I to believe that your thoughts are developed by Dawkins, Sam Harris, and others? Does Stephen Hawking have all the answers?

Keep drinking the Atheist/Skeptics Kool-Aid, Jim. Keep drinking it.

Jim:

Shallow and pitiful attempt at thinking, but keep learning! First off, Hawking and Dawkins do not believe in God, but more to the point, does it matter? I suspect that a germ does not believe in you or me, but does that negate us? Perhaps our picture is defective (could a germ really understand what you or I think?), but the fact that some of us can conceive that the universe can be greater than ourselves is a sign that we have the potential to grow. So Hawking believes that pure chance can create something (the universe) out of nothing. I am ready to sell him a ton of gold for the meager sum of a million dollars - of course the gold has to be transmuted out of nothing, but of course, that is obviously feasible and true!

Meanwhile, have you ever considered a catalytic reactor - molecules enter, go through some process, and transmute into something else of more use or value. Could we and the universe, with all its stresses, injustices and glories, be just another reactor which is working to make us something more?

benedictineacc...YES... being religious IS not being able to think for ones self precisely because your entire thought process and reason for existing, behaving, acting is based on a MYTH. A myth that is reinforced by THREAT of damnation, guilt, fear, consquences and ignorance while the thoughts of people who agree w/people like Hawkings, Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, etc are formed out of reason, logic, shared interest and have nothing FORCING anyone to believe in anything, no reprisal, no punishment, no reward... nothing. HUGE HUGE HUGE difference...not to mention the fact that our opinions, acts, behavior etc are based on REALITY, LOGIC, REASON, EVIDENCE.

Do you realize, WychDoctor, that you are also believing in pure chance?

Do you think a god, an omniscient, omnipotent being could just come from nothing by pure chance?

Also, do you think, that by pure chance, you happened to be born into the culture that supports your version or idea of a god? (If you're American and your god is not Allah).

Hambone:

Don't agree - is it pure chance that water flows downhill in a river? Agreed, any molecule has a lot of freedom, but in the end, they all are going downhill. And happening to be in the culture that supports my version of a god - is that chance, or is that moulding - when I pour Jell-o into a mould, is it pure chance that it ends up having the shape of its mold? I believe we are influenced and directed but still have a lot of freedom of choice - pretty much the biblical definition of our status.

Wych - I heard the same carp (from the preacher on the pulpit) as a child and realized it was just that and not real logic or reason. If they said what you said fast enough there would always be a bunch of folks in the church that would go wow with their eyes glossed over...totally brain dead....priceless, must be a preacher.

Oh no:

You just proved my point about intolerance! I can let you have your religion, even your apparent desire to have none (which is another faith thing). If you believe in God, Chaos, the Almighty Dollar or a good BM, go for it - doesn't hurt my belief. But what scares you so that others do not agree with you? Back away and read your comments - pretty scared and intolerant!

Wych -

You just proved my point about intolerance!

I believe I was conveyong an observation not an order to you or your kind but if that is what you call intolerance then I guess I am.

Wych,

We understand the processes and reasons water goes downhill. Hell, Newton figured that stuff out hundreds of years ago (forgive my imprecision).

And the mold thing? Well, it sounds to me like you are describing indoctrination. You pour gelatin into a mold so it will turn out exactly as you want it to, with out the freedom to do anything different. I see no free choice there.

So, basically, your god is the right god because you were born to Western culture which has been influenced by the belief in that god for millennia?

Very reasonable explanation, Brenda! I don't quite agree with your interpretation of an everlasting life on a restored earth, but each to their own! But truly, if God is our heavenly Father, would a father throw his child into the flame for not being perfect the first time he tried to walk? God IS love!

So WychDoctor, if you are right that means Brenda is wrong. And if she is wrong how can she be going to heaven? And if she goes to heaven that must mean you are wrong. It amazes me at how many Christians claim that theirs is the one true belief which means that every other Christian faith must be wrong.

drc -

but each to their own

see how that works.....that was easy. Man's greatest creation "God".

Hey No:

What scares you so about God? When you spend so much effort attacking something that you claim doesn't exist, you are giving it substance. If God doesn't exist, it doesn't matter, does it?

Wych - it is not god that scares me, it is not god I am attacking, it is only man that scares me and especially those who appear to have lost it.

Humanity should be afraid of people like you...he who fails to heed the experiences of the past are doomed to have it inflicted on them again.

WychDoctor George, I agree with you that "We all have our faiths,..." However, atheists until recently have mostly stayed in the closet. It is only in the last few years that atheists have spoken up and that is mostly in response to invasion of secular institutions by the religious right. In the last 60 years, "god" has been inserted in the Pledge of Allegiance and put on US paper currency. Similarly, the Mayor's prayer breakfasts started in 1952. All of these are efforts by the religious community to infiltrate and control government. Our supreme court now has 6 Catholic and 3 Jewish members. There is only one openly atheist member of Congress. It is far easier to be openly gay in America, than openly atheist.

Most of the older religions accept that others can have alternate beliefs, but the atheist is exceeded only by the muslims in their attacks on any other belief.

Broad brush, George, broad brush. How many atheists do you know?

Oh, and is it you, a tolerant adherent of one of the "older religions" who accept alternate beliefs? Bashing atheists and Muslims? Yes, you have shown us your true and loving attitude!

Also, what kind of alternate explanation of pre-history would you suggest? Does it have evidential support? That's really all you need, evidence, for people to start looking at it. Sure it will be challenged! That's science! It might take a long time for anyone to take it seriously, but if you have the facts, in the end, you have the last laugh.

Hambone:

Just call 'em as you see em! It takes a darn broad brush to cover a lot of the stuff that is out there. Sure, I will bash atheists and muslims - I am a relatively normal human being, you leave me alone, I leave you alone. You bash me, I will return the favor - what is the glory of suffering insult without defense - any slave can do that. So when someone displays intolerance toward me, I should bow my head, say "Yassa, yassa"? Go ahead if you want, I am more of the old John Wayne school. And speaking of older religions and tolerance, how about the tolerance of the old Shaolin monks? Nice peaceable people, very tolerant until attacked.

Prehistory explanations - go read some of the stories, such as engineers who claimed that the erosion of the Sphinx prove that it is much older than what is stated by archaeologists. And who should know erosion more than someone who is responsible with working with that type of physics? But the revered archaeologists will not hear, or even allow papers on the subject, because the proponents are not certified by the archaeologists boards and schools. And THAT is sum and substance of intolerance - a faith based religion, no matter what the name of its god.

Anyone can be a scientist. No education is necessary at all. Atheists are attacking other religions, but they don't fly planes into buildings or try to kill women by denying them effective birth control. THAT takes religion.

you leave me alone, I leave you alone.

I'm all for that. Who, again, is attacking you?

Meanwhile, which group, in this country, is trying to impose its version of 'morality' on the rest of us, much like the Muslims in Saudi Arabia?

And Egypt is not pre-history. Pre-history is the time before recorded history.

Trying to pin the word faith on everyone (atheists, footballers, workaholics, religious) is nothing more than the same tactic drunks use to justify their habit, that is to say, if everyone has the same problem, I'm normal.

Well, no. I don't pretend to know things that I don't. People of faith do just that.

They also get special clubs with secret passwords!

Sheila - as a consequence of evolving to higher level of consciousness and intelligence we human have asked a number of very profound questions "how did we get here, what does the future hold for us as individuals". In addition when we as individuals have had to suffer we ask the question why me.

I can easily excuse those who have lived in the distant past creating answers to their hopes but we now live in an age of enlightenment and the scientific evidence overwhelmingly supports the theory that this is it, 300 million years from now (if humanity survives that long) life on this planet will for all intent and purpose be gone.

Why should I be worried about the life here after, I did not know it before I came here and I will not know it after I leave and I am perfectly fine with that. If everyone would believe that and help each other to make the best of the only life they have things would be good but no religion has to jockey for a front row seat in haven, they have to vanquish and ostracise the none believers, if given the chance religion will force you to heed the word of god....religion is a fearful thing.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the passage of time

From everything that I can determine, I did not exist prior to my conception. Although I have evidence in the form of old photos, birth certificate, oral stories by older relatives, and a baby book, I have no memories of my childhood before age 3. It is not difficult for me to accept that I did not exist as a person until I was born. It is more difficult to imagine not existing one day in the future, but that could have happened at any point in my life. Although my dogs dream and express numerous emotions, I doubt that they contemplate their own future non-existence.

As to the study, I think the results (although the sample size was way too small.) demonstrate that people who have made up their minds about religion are not likely to change when faced with death. It is the undecided people (Agnostics) who are likely to change their belief.

Dale... according to MORMON theology, we DID exist before our conception.... as 'spirit children' w/gawd in 'heaven'. Just depends on whose version of the myth/lie you believe. Wow.. I sure hope to hell R-MONEY doesn't ever become POTUS. Christians will have one helluva surprise coming when they find out they've been colossally DUPED by this satanic cult that has been claiming mainstream Christianity in order to attract converts. I know for a FACT... been there, done that and got the hell out.

Beware_the_Paid_Political_blogger. If hell exists, it was made for you. Creep

What the hey is all that about, I bet you often confuse yourself.

the only One who can deliver someone from death

know anyone he has delivered?

While I don't disagree with your notion about each of us having an appointment with death, I take exception to the idea that there will be a "judgement". One does not need to subscribe to a belief in some omnipotent being to arrive at comfort and peace when confronting the prospect of dying.

There is no Heaven or Hell; there is not God, no judgement, no divine purpose. Sorry to disappoint you, but there it is.