Before her second son, Hayes, was born a year ago, Erin Carroll was determined to breast-feed him.

Courtesy Erin Carroll
Erin Carroll and second son, Hayes, seen here at 4 months. Erin gave up breast-feeding Hayes when a hospital nurse insisted he needed formula because he'd lost too much weight.
“With my first one, I didn’t really have any expectations or plans for anything,” says Carroll, 30, a stay-at-home mom in Columbia, S.C.
Breast-feeding didn’t exactly work out with her first son, Hudson, three years ago. Hudson weighed nearly 10 pounds at birth, and, Carroll says, she couldn’t produce enough milk for him. He lost nearly 2 pounds, and by the time he was 6 weeks, she was feeding him formula exclusively.
With Hayes, “it turned out that I was making enough for him, but he just fell asleep any time I tried to nurse him.” Before they left the hospital when he was 3 days old, Carroll says, a nurse told her “he’s lost too much weight. We’ve got to do formula.” Carroll says, “I was devastated.”
Carroll is like many women with the best intentions about breast-feeding, according to a new study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, one of the first to examine the discrepancy between how long pregnant women say they intend to exclusively breast-feed and how long they actually do.
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Carroll continued supplementing Hayes’ feedings with formula and by her first postpartum doctor’s appointment four weeks after his birth had decided to stop nursing him altogether.
“Omigosh, this formula is so easy,” Carroll recalls thinking. “It was sad at first, because I really just thought it would be different [with Hayes], and I didn’t have the same issues with both of them.”
Roughly half of the women in the new study said before they delivered they planned to breast-feed exclusively for at least three months, the CDC researchers report Monday in Pediatrics. But only a third of those women actually achieved their goal.
“The one that shocks me is the fact that 42 percent stopped in the first month,” lead author Cria Perrine, an epidemiologist in the CDC’s Division of Nutrition, Physical Activity and Obesity, tells msnbc.com. And about a third of those women had abandoned plans to exclusively breast-feed by the time they took their baby home from the hospital.
“To me, this isn’t about the individual women,” Perrine says. “This to me says we as a society are not supporting mothers to feed their infants the way they want to.”
The study analyzed data from about 1,500 U.S. women in a 2005-2007 study of infant feeding practices. Most of the women were 25- to 34 years-old, white and married and had some post-high school education. Their babies were all healthy.
The World Health Organization and the American Academy of Pediatrics recommend that mothers feed babies only breast milk (and medications or micronutrient supplements) for their first six months of life. “Breast milk is the best source of nutrition for young children and provides both short- and long-term health benefits,” including fewer infections and a lower risk of chronic conditions later in life, Perrine and her coauthors write.
The proportion of 6-month-old babies who’ve been exclusively breast-fed has increased in the United States, according to the CDC. In 2011, 14.8 percent were — up 4 percentage points from 2007, the first year the CDC issued a breast-feeding “report card.” That’s still well below the government’s target of 25.5 percent in the “Healthy People 2020” report.
In Perrine’s study, married moms with more than one child were more likely to exclusively breastfeed as long as they’d intended to. Moms who were obese, smoked or planned to breastfeed exclusively for at least seven months, which is longer than the minimum recommended by health experts, were less likely to meet their goal.
The researchers also found that six hospital practices helped predict whether new mothers would exclusively breast-feed as long as they’d planned:
- breast-feeding within one hour of birth
- no supplemental feedings with formula
- no pacifiers
- rooming in
- breast-feeding on demand
- information about breast-feeding support.
The most significant predictor was whether the hospital had supplemented breastfeeding with formula, which was reported by four out of 10 women in the study. Last summer, Perrine says, the CDC reported that about four out of five hospitals routinely gave formula to healthy breastfeeding newborns.
“I don’t think we know exactly why all of the hospitals are giving the formula,” says Perrine, whose study didn’t count those supplemental feedings as the end of exclusive breast-feeding. “I think it could be the weight issue. I think some nurses say let the mother sleep. It comes from a place of good intentions, but not everyone realizes how detrimental it can be to establishing breastfeeding.”
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Dr. Bill Sears' theory of "attachment parenting" is making headlines after a Time magazine cover story featured a photo of a mother breast-feeding her 3-year-old. NBC's Darlene Rodriguez reports on this parenting technique and TODAY's Savannah Guthrie speaks with the mother in the now-infamous photo and Dr. Sears.
Related:
Exclusive breast-feeding may be just too hard, study finds
Military mom sparks controversy over breast-feeding in public
Shock, buzz over Time cover of breast-feeding toddler


Nice to see some real statistics instead of more anti-formula propaganda, but the way the article is spun, it still seems designed to make new moms who can't breastfeed exclusively feel like failures. The tone of the article in the end is still very anti-formula and still making it sound like formula moms are lazy or that exclusive breastfeeding is simply something everyone can do if they try hard enough, which is simply NOT TRUE. Bf is fine if you can do it and want to do it, but it is not for everyone, no matter how much you think someone should be exactly like you.
Please start supporting ALL moms, instead of the small minority who are super nursers! And please stop making the rest of us feel like we can't be acceptable if we aren't 100% breastfeeding, because very, very few mothers can actually do that. And please remember there are about a bajillion other factors involved in deciding to switch to formula other than the physical ability to make milk!!
And above all - stop making it sound like being a good mother hinges solely on your ability to milk it up!!!!!! There are so many other facets of mothering. If quitting nursing means you'll be a better mother in the 3256 other mothering departments, it's a no-brainer to switch to formula. It's just not as simple as these articles make it out to be. The reasons i stopped nursing both my boys had nothing to do with whether I received a formula sample at the hospital. I have a brain, I looked at my life and my health and what was best for my baby, and I am confident I made the best choice for my child.
I really didn't read it the same way you did. The tone to me seemed as if they wanted to stress the importance of breast-feeding, in a society where breast-feeding is not stressed. It is the best practice and they would love to see it increase. However, I did not see any condemnation of formula feeding, but merely confusion as to why formula feeding occurs so quickly in people who wanted to exclusively breast-feed.
I can see that point of view. It's just such a touchy subject. Sorry if we formula moms get a little paranoid! I'm just waiting for some lactivist to call me a troll now.
Ok lactivists. When you've survived severe hyperemesis twice risking everything just to give 2 boys life, endured reynaud's syndrome, arthritis, and severe migraines caused by nursing all while recovering from severe malnutrition from the hyperemesis, and when you hate bf in general as much as I did, then by all means, I give you permission to call me a troll.
Just as it's wrong to put down a mother who uses formula, it's also wrong to put down a mother who wants to breast-feed, but whose goal is sabotaged by the hospital staff. Absolutely there are women who are physically unable to breast-feed. There are others for whom it is difficult, or just isn't the right choice for them. On the flip-side, I could very easily have been one of the mothers who wanted to breast-feed but ended up not doing so - the odds were stacked against me. I had to have emergency surgery immediately following birth, and was unable to even attempt breast-feeding for many hours after. My child regularly fell asleep nursing, and was losing weight. Thankfully I had a pediatrician who, rather than pushing formula as the solution, worked with us and helped us to short-term supplement with formula while increasing nursing. I was able to nurse for 9 months, and it's in great part due to the support of my pediatrician and pediatric nurse. Had it not worked, I would have fed formula and life would have gone on. But I'm always thankful for the patience and support I received during a difficult time. I think this article is important for expectant moms - if you hope to breastfeed, make your wishes clear, and look for medical professionals who will assist you rather than encourage you to give up at the first sign of difficulty.
All the breast-feeding only advocates need to lay off! The state of infant formulas nowadays is that many children of poor mothers are nutitionally better off on the formula than their mothers milk. The nutrition of the mother is what will determine the nutrients of her milk. Besides, that are some women who just cannot produce the amount of milk that their baby requires. They should not be made to feel inferior for something that is totally beyond their ability to change.
Babies are little parasites, they take all the good stuff from their mothers. That's why you can have healthy babies of malnourished mothers. So to say that babies are better off with formula over their mother's milk is false.
I had a difficult time starting up bf with my first. He was small to begin with, and kept falling asleep. Luckily, my hospital had great lactation consultants that helped us get going. My second apparently had a great nursing instinct, no problems there. Both were supplementing with formula by age 6 months, And both nursed past 2 years, gradually working down to just bedtime. My oldest was completely weaned at 2.5 yrs, and I'm hoping my youngest will too. I found nursing to be easier than formula, especially at night, since we also cosleep. Everyone gets more sleep when nobody has to get up out of bed!
I have no problem with those that make the decision for whatever reason to go with just formula. I do think that more education and help would be a good idea for new moms. I'm sure there are plenty that want to nurse that just need a little help, instead of being told they have to give formula. It's quite normal for a baby to lose weight right after birth, but in a few days after the regular milk comes in, they gain it all back and more.
Poor mothers need to be encouraged to breastfeed and encouraged nutritionally as well. Formula feeding in an added expense and if the mom can't afford it, the tax payer ends up paying for it. Don't get me wrong - I am definitely for programs like WIC, etc that help out those with children that can not afford it, but we really need to encourage breastfeeding as it is free. Most mothers (not all, so please don't jump on me) are able to breastfeed and do produce enough milk, they just do not have the support to continue or are discouraged by others who think the child may not be getting enough milk. And likewise, we need to not judge those that are unable to breastfeed and provide them support as well.
I had the problem of a nurse making me feel like a failure for not bf'ing. I was able- my daughter wasn't. She had no nursing instinct and her sucking instinct, well, sucked. Trying to "force" her to nurse resulted in massive screaming. She was hungry, she just had no idea why we were shoving her up to my boobs when she wanted food. (As a side note, bottle feeding was just as bad, but at least holding a bottle is a little easier then breastfeeding in that regard.) In the end, my husband and I decided it just wasn't to be.
And holy crap, did my day nurse get judgmental on me! If I asked her for formula, she would would snippily ask me, "Are you sure you don't want to breastfeed?" She would also say things like, "There's no reason you can't breastfeed!" and things along those lines. She did that every single time she entered my room. Even my lactation consultant was getting itchy around that nurse.
Education is good and we should all respect each other's choices since we all have different reasons. But we do need to make sure that the pendulum doesn't go too far in the other direction.
Why do you feel that only a few women can exclusively breastfeed? Given enough information, time, and space, only a few women CANNOT exclusively breastfeed.
I am surprised that so many gave up so soon. I thought I messed up with my first when I started doing both when I returned to work 8 weeks after his birth. I stopped around 3 months totally. There is a lot of pressure on moms to nurse and it is not realistic in today's society. The reality is that in history it was common to have others nurse the babies other than the actual mother. I say do what works for you. If the mother is stressed while trying to nurse, it is no longer a good experience for the child. Feeding time should not be filled with stress as it is also a bonding time.
With my last, I had to go back to work only a few weeks after he was born so I didn't have much choice. I tried pumping, but a good pump is really expensive, it was definitely not in the budget back then.
With my oldest son I was told by a resident doctor not to breastfeed because my iron was too low and so I was brought formula to feed him. I wish I would have talked to someone else about it, but I didn't know. I was only 20 and went with what doctors told me.
With my second son I went straight for the formula as i thought it would be easier. It was a good thing I did as he was diagnosed with some major stuff wrong with his heart at 3.5 weeks old and had to stay in the hospital over a month just with his first heart surgery. He had 2 more down the road.
I tried to breastfeed my third and fourth sons ho were twins, but they had trouble latching and I was panicking that it had been so long since they were born and they hadn't ate anything so I had the nurse give them formula. it actually was good because with 2 I needed help quite a bit in the beginning.
My fifth son I wanted to breastfeed and I did. I had a great nurse at the hospital I delivered him at who helped me get him to latch and even brought me a nipple shield that helped. I did have very sore nipples due to him being tongue- tied and was going to just formula feed as I had to give him some because of the pain and infection I ended up with, but I pushed on with the breastfeeding and breastfed him until he was just over 16 months old. I was also an on demand feeder so some days he was on me most of the day. lol
I am hoping that I get one more chance to breastfeed and if it's twins again I have experience that i should do a lot better next time!
I didnt see any formula-shaming in the article. What I took away after reading it was the statistics that woman who do choose to breastfeed and stuck to breastfeeding were on average white, had higher educations, and were married(or they were in relationships were the mothers had a support system to help bear the burden of caring for an infant). Which to me is most telling. While I think the correlation of races is unimportant, the fact that women had higher educations (to me means) they had access to information they wanted/needed to make the choice to breastfeed longer. Also they were better informed of the logistics of breastfeeding. Sometimes that kind of stuff isn't instinctual -sometimes you have to seek out info on what you're doing! Also that women who extended breastfeeding were married stands out to me. Does that mean ladies who extend breastfeeding periods arent working? Is a dual-income household not important or not needed leaving the new mother available for her infant longer? Are single mothers unable to extend breastfeeding because they have to return to the workforce? I wish the article broke down the findings of their studies a bit more.
anonymous....If you would get off the defensive maybe moms could band together and figure out why this is such a problem, mostly hear in North America. Stating silly things like "very very few can breast feed exclusively" is counter productive. The fact of the matter is there are very very few medical reasons why a mom can't breastfeed exclusively and most other countries boast much better success rates than us so lets try and figure out why and what we can do to improve things for us and our babies. And don't kid yourself, plenty quit out of pure laziness...sorry but it is true..and many have to work hard at it as it doesn't come easily always, but the majority quit out of things like lack of support, information and education....and the article is on the money with the idea of hospitals themselves undermining a new moms chances of success. I tell my clients the first three months is going to be much much more trying than formula but the nine after that are much much easier than formula
Oh wow, the number of inaccurate comments here is alarming!
Oldsarge, you are so very wrong. Certain drugs will pass through breast milk, but the nutrients a mother takes in has no bearing on the nutritional value of breast milk.
Yes it does. If the mother isn't eating healthy during her pregnancy and while breastfeeding, the fetus and then the baby won't get proper nutrition. That said, if the mother is poor, there are programs available to help ensure she receives proper nutrition while breast feeding. WIC, for example, is has vouchers for breast feeding women to help ensure she continues to receive these nutrients necessary for the baby.
It's going to take a lot more than just the formula feeding moms to "get off the defensive" - it's going to take certain breast feeding advocates becoming more understanding of women who can't breast feed. It's a lot easier to stop being defensive when people stop attacking you. Not saying this article was an attack on formula feeding moms (I don't believe it was). But, I can tell you, from personal experience there are a lot of breast feeding advocates that do attack formula feeding mothers. When I had my oldest son, I developed ecclampsia (complete with seizures). This resulted in an emergency c-section during which I had to be resuscitated. While I was in the hospital after my c-section, I developed a hospital acquired infection that went septic and was shutting down my organ systems (I still have permanent organ damage as a result). I was in the hospital for 4 1/2 months after he was born, and he was released from the hospital and cared for by my parents. During this time, I was on medication to save my life that was very dangerous for him - so pumping was out of the question. I was also so sick that he wasn't allowed to be brought to the hospital to see me. Anyway, after I was out of the hospital and bottle feeding my son I was told by hard-core breast feeding advocates that I shouldn't have had a child if I wasn't going to breast feed him. I was told that I was doing a disservice to my son. I was told that I wasn't a "real" mom because I wasn't breast feeding. Etc., etc. All of this by women who didn't know me, didn't know that it wasn't safe for me to breast feed due to severe (albeit rare) complications.
The fact remains that moms need to support each other. SOME breast feeding advocates need to realize that when they say things like "you shouldn't have had a child if you weren't going to breast feed" and "you're not a real mom because you aren't breast feeding" they are part of the problem. It's also very easy to be on the defensive when you've been treated like this in the past (just as it's easy for breast feeding mom's to be on the defensive when they've been mistreated for breastfeeding). The problem can only be tackled when women get over these "mommy wars" and start supporting each other - and that won't happen until both sides start respecting each others decisions, limitations, etc., etc.
Summer wrote "becoming more understanding of women who can't breast feed"
They're criticizing the 85% that don't even bother, not the 0.1% with complications. All of these mothers have some sort of medical emergency as to why they couldn't start breastfeeding, just as the typical story for the scheduled C-section is a medical emergency.
Oh, so they weren't criticizing me when they said to me (as I was bottle feeding my son) "you shouldn't have had had a child if you weren't going to breast feed" or "you're not a real mom because you aren't breastfeeding" ?
They may think they are criticizing the 85% that don't even bother - but, they were surely criticizing me without bothering to find out that I truly did have complications. Some of them assume that every woman that is formula feeding is doing so purely out of convenience - and that simply isn't true.
This brings me back to my point - women need to stop engaging in these "mommy wars" and start supporting each other. Breastfeeding mothers deserve to have support; formula feeding moms deserve support.
Summer, don't pay Vincent any mind. He's got a thing against women. Check out his posting history.
Summer wrote "Oh, so they weren't criticizing me when they said to me (as I was bottle feeding my son)"
I have no idea about your case. Do you expect me to know?
I do know that most of the Stay-at-home (you can't say Full-Time mothers because most of these kids are sent to preschool and daycare for many days of the week while Mom never works during that period) mothers in my area typically cited some sort of emergency to explain why they didn't need to breast feed at all. This article states that 85% of US mothers don't bother with critical child care obligations such as breastfeeding, somewhat less than the mothers that don't bother to reduce labor costs by $20k because they don't think they can do a fundamental female task : vaginal birth.
The American Association of Pediatrics (AAP) recommends a minimum of 6 months of exclusive breast-feeding. The AAP also does not recommend circumcision because the risks to the infant exceed the potential benefits. American women don't bother to listen to the premiere US pediatric organization.
You quoted me above in your previous post. The post you quoted contained information about my case. So, either you didn't read my post - in which you would've read a very brief description of case - or you chose to intentionally take part of my post out of context. Either way, that's your wrong doing.
In reality, I think that breast feeding is great and if at all possible women should breast feed. At the same time, lactavists that see a woman not breast feeding should refrain from berating these women (as I and others have experienced) because 1) they don't know that woman's situation (she may be one of the few that is unable to breast feed, like I was) 2) hostile behavior doesn't help their cause (which is a worthy cause). Getting more women to breast feed requires support and education - not berating women. They need to remember that there is a minority of women that are unable to breast feed.
Vincent seriously??? S__— up! Go take your mommy issues somewhere else.
My daughter recently had a baby and was very anxious to nurse. This was her first child and she was very nervous and unsure of herself. The "lactation specialist" in the hospital was rude, pushy and made her feel that unless she nursed exclusively for the first year she was a total failure. She told her no pacifier. Just nurse EVERY time he cried. That meant 24/7. My grandson weighed almost 9lbs and was not getting enough milk from nursing. He cried almost constantly. She cried almost constantly. He lost weight. She was exhausted. He was exhausted. She called a different lacatation specialist at the location WIC office who told her to pump and see how much milk he was actually getting and then pump for 5 minutes after each feeding to get her body used to producing more, and suppliment with formula until more milk came in. He is now 3 months old. She is pumping and feeding him the breast milk in a bottle. If he's still hungry, he gets some formula. They are BOTH happy, healthy and thriving. With "specialists" like the one in the hospital, no wonder women aren't breastfeeding for long!
I breast-fed three children to 24 months ( as the world health organization recommends) and then I was so happy to have my breasts back to myself! You have to get through the first eight weeks of nursing like warrior boot camp and they can be horrible! You can have bloody sore nipples ( even with a proper latch) low milk flow , yeast infections in the nipple, mastitis...whatever happens DONT QUIT NURSING at least every four ( FOUR!) hours. If you are having problems with supply there are little bags of formula you wear on your shoulder and the tube runs along the breast to supplement the breastmilk. The best thing you can do is enlist help--there are many free angencies you can call for information or support
It is a lot of work to nurse but for my children, knowing their genetic history, I felt it was best to push forward. Obviously, don't let anyone make you feel guilty if you have to use formula---- but breastfeeding is well worth the effort! Good luck to all the other new moms out there!
I guess that I was one of the lucky ones. Both of my kids had only breastmilk for the first 6 months. I breastfed my daughter for 9-months (she ended it) and my son for 12-months (I ended it). I found breastfeeding very easy and VERY convenient. My daughter is now expecting her first child in about 6-weeks and she plans on breastfeeding for at least the first 6-months.
Congrats and good luck to your daughter!
My story is similar to yours. I breastfed both of my daughters (1st one weighed 9 lb 6.5 oz, the second weighed 10 lb 4.5 oz). I breastfed exclusively (no supplements, no solids) the first one for 6 months, till I had to have surgery. The second one nursed exclusively (wouldn't even take water from a bottle) for 10 months when I introduced the cup. Then she dropped me like a hot potato! I even provided milk for a neighbor's baby that was allergic to everything, but the mother wouldn't nurse (she said it was 'nasty'). She wouldn't let me nurse the child, but she did accept the expressed milk in bottles. All three (my two and the neighbor child) are healthy, thriving adults with standard weights.
that should have been nasty for her to accept another woman breast milk in that case as well....but anyway that was nice of you to share your breast milk....;)
Sorry I am posting twice, I missed the "no supplemental formula" quote in the article and I have heard that mantra screamed by lactating professionals. I have a really different take on it--which worked great for me.
I struggled with my second child with just about every nursing issue. I had heard that Asian women often supplement with formula on schedule or it is given by the father. I read they also nurse every four hours but before bed allow the father to give a bottle of formula. The child associates the mother and her smell with breastfeeding but the father with the bottle. We tried this and it worked WONDERS! My nipples got a break, our second child began gaining weight and we slowly transitioned to breast only when my husband went back to work. I don't know if there is any scientific evidence to back this up but it worked great for our second. Thought I would share with other mothers.
THANK YOU for this! I did a similar thing with my second child (who is now almost 10 years old). He got the best of both worlds (my breast milk AND bonding time with daddy when he got a bottle) and it worked wonders for our family (and my sanity). There is no one thing that works for everyone and not all children and mothers respond the same way to the same things, so finding a happy medium is a MUST. I plan on doing something similar with the new addition (due in a few days) once I go back to work. At the end of the day, we are doing what's best for EVERYONE in our family, and we are happier for it. :)
We did the same - a bottle of formula at bedtime let us all get more rest. My supply was lowest at night, and that seemed to be when my son was hungriest. So, while he was mostly breastfed, we supplemented with formula when needed, and he is now a healthy, happy, intelligent 8-yr-old.
Kallie wrote " I had heard that Asian women often supplement with formula on schedule or it is given by the father."
Nonsense. Asian dads are expected to work full-time, like all other fathers. Full-time work involves being away from the house for 12 hours and sleeping at least 6.
Same with a lot of mothers, Vince.
And, you know, a good dad will find a way. My husband, a full time worker AND a full time student, always found a way to give that nighttime bottle. (This isn't to say that any dad who doesn't give a nighttime bottle is a bad dad, but only to say that dads aren't exempt from child rearing responsibilities.)
This study is disturbing to me for one reason: What would happen to those 85% of non-exclusively breastfed U.S. babies if something drastic were to happen to stop the supply of formula for a long period of time?
I fully understand that many medical conditions prevent even starting breastfeeding. But 85%? Really? I would say that corporate america is not supporting women when they go back to work. This article skips right over that topic. I know many women who have told me how their bosses made them feel uncomfortable about pumping ... one even walked in on her on purpose.
Great point, but I think the two are also separate issues that need addressing. This article discusses the COMMENCING of breastfeeding, and (dis)continued effort of doing so within/past the first 3 months. It's the first 3 months that are the most critical for in regards to whether they breastfeed at all. And it's typically not employers who influence that (they come in after 6 weeks or 12 weeks), but the medical professionals who are there from the start.
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It's not necessarily a corporate issue. My company was very accommodating (pumping room, adjusted work hours), and with some supplementing, my kids nursed for what is considered a long time in the US (over 2 years). My stepsister never considered nursing her kids at all, and I don't believe she was working at the time. As for a formula problem, since I was nursing part time, I could have increased my supply if absolutely necessary. Even at this point, with only one or two night time feedings, I could probably get back up to full supply within a week if needed, and hire myself out :).
What we really need is more education and encouragement. If we can raise our kids to know that it's normal and natural, maybe the next generation will see most formula used only by those that physically can't nurse.
I agree Kelly. What if we still lived in caves? how hard would these women try to breastfeed then? or would their babies die because of the breastfeeding problems? sure, there are times it wouldn't work, and then there would be another woman in the tribe breastfeeding who would be the wet nurse. I am a pediatrician and I have seen all the digestive and colic issues that newborns have with formula, and I cringed at the thought of feeding that to my babies. Human babies are meant to drink human milk, period. I am all for supporting women who really can't breastfeed, but I have seen (with lots of experience in the field) that the reasons women choose for stopping or never starting are typically frivolous. and what no one talks about is how important the act of nursing at the breast is for developing the oral musculature and jaw, in order to protect airway development and reduce future risk of sleep apnea.
Kelly-562464 wrote " But 85%? Really? I would say that corporate america is not supporting women when they go back to work."
Why should corporations support women with more time off without reducing pay? Isn't that a sexist inequity?
It's time once again for a periodic festival of official hand-wringing over breastfeeding rates. Researchers are shocked, shocked that women quit breastfeeding at very high rates. And they are shocked, shocked that all their efforts to date to encourage breastfeeding have been essentially useless.
For me, the only thing that is surprisingly is that breastfeeding researchers are so incredibly clueless about why women stop breastfeeding. Or perhaps they are not clueless, they simply refuse to accept the obvious:
The dirty little secret about breastfeeding is that starting is hard, painful, frustrating and inconvenient. And continuing breastfeeding is hard, sometimes painful, and incredibly inconvenient especially for women who work, which in 2012 is most women.
Breastfeeding activists refuse to acknowledge the reality of breastfeeding. They prefer to sugarcoat it with little maxims like "breast milk is always available," breast milk is always the perfect temperature," and "breast feeding saves money." Those statements are true, but they ignore the very real challenges in initiating and maintaining breastfeeding.
It seems never to have occurred to the authors that women gave up breastfeeding because it was painful, difficult or inconvenient. Amazingly, the authors never bother ask women why they stopped breastfeeding. It is an inexcusable omission.
As long as breastfeeding advocates and researchers ignore the reality of breastfeeding, they are wasting everyone's time and money trying to blame low breastfeeding rates on everything but breastfeeding itself.
"hard, painful, frustrating and inconvenient" yes, not doubt. The first 6 weeks, I felt like I was in a tunnel time warp of "what do you mean you're hungry again; you just finished an hour ago?" But it is that way for all women across the world. There has to be something more that is encouraging American women to not bother. If "hard, painful, frustrating and inconvenient" is the only reason, then you are saying we are a bunch of wimpy divas compared to the rest of the world.
Not wanting to do something hard, panful, frustrating and inconvenient does not make a woman a diva. That's especially true when the benefits to the baby are relatively trivial (one fewer cold or diarrheal illness).
Amy-
Pregnancy is also hard, painful, frustrating, and inconvenient. These are just excuses. That does not mean that breast-feeding is easy.
Dr. Amy,
Thank you!! You have described every problem I had with trying to breast feed our daughter, and I was led to believe that I must be the only mother on earth who had problems. I was blamed for my daughter losing "too much" weight in her first 2 weeks of life and never realized that there were resources available to new mothers to help them figure it out. It may be natural to breast feed, but it isn't easy!
A lot of it is that we aren't a culture that has embraced breastfeeding. Women didn't have to have lactation consultants years and years ago, they learned from the women around them, and breastfeeding was a lot more natural. Now people flip out if a women dares to breast feed in public even with a cover on. We have lost something with this unnecessary modesty.
That's not the whole story though. Historically, at least in what is considered Western culture, women were expected to stay at home all the time while breastfeeding or get a wet nurse. In respects to modesty, we're actually MORE advanced then previous generations. I've heard the stories of my grandmother's generation about how they formula fed just so they could go shopping.
Yes, I'm comparing to generations prior, since the beginning of time sort of thing....we have definitely been making better progress since our parents generation which is very promising!
If a couple decides to procreate then they need to make a decision on what the true sacrifice is bringing another human in to this world. Breastfeeding and ALL the benefits that come along with it (to many to list) far out weighs the draw backs, there are medications for mothers that cannot produce enough milk (that do work)..... In the end it boils down to priorities, does one want to raise a child or just have one cause its whats supposed to come next in life....... I dont understand how someone could choose their career over raising the child they brought in to this world!!!! One last note ..... It takes both the mother and father to raise a family including Breastfeeding, with out the support and commitment of the father/husband to take on more household responsibilities the mother certainly would not have the stamina to be able to properly breastfeed the child.
Amy - I'm expecting my first child, hoping to BF to at least a year, and one hundred percent agree with you. I'd like to add in one of the reasons why I think American women struggle with BF when compared to those from other countries: our maternity leave rights here are pathetic when compared with other countries. FMLA for a maximum of 12 weeks, and only if your company is big enough to qualify for FMLA? No paid maternity leave laws? When we look at other developed countries, you see that the majority of them are much more generous both with maternity/paternity benefits and with pay for it. If women are expected to be turning their kids over to outside caregivers at 3 months of age, no wonder that many of them end up ending BF much earlier than they'd like.
"These are just excuses."
Your contempt for women who make decisions that are different from yours is extremely unattractive.
Since when does a woman's right to control her own body end below the waist?
"Breastfeeding and ALL the benefits that come along with it (to many to list) far out weighs the draw backs"
This may come as a shock to you, but it it not your job to decide whether the benefits outweigh the burdens for other women. Moreover, despite all the hype by breastfeeding advocates, the proven benefits are trivial (fewer colds and diarrheal illnesses). Many of the other purported benefits are far from scientifically established.
Oh good ol' Dr Amy. Just coming to troll it up in the forums. She is the biggest misogynist I have ever seen. I think she literally hates women. Too bad she has no real medical licence. Don't listen to her nonsense ladies. She's a control freak that would rather the world be under all her control than let women make any choices about childbirth and mothering.
Amy, you seem really angry. You really DO have your facts just plain incorrect on the benefits of breastfeeding, and the sad part is that I can tell you some reasons that American women often stop or don't start breastfeeding. If you really are a doctor, why do you come on so strongly that breastfeeding isn't a big deal for baby or mother's health? What is your specialty? I certainly hope you aren't an OB or pediatrician, but I wouldn't be surprised if you are since doctors aren't usually taught much about breastfeeding in their basic studies.
No, I don't...and you don't...have the right to tell women how to feed their babies, and I personally would never think of telling someone what is right for her. This may come as a shock to you (since you said this), but if you really are a doctor you swore an oath to do no harm, and you are in a position here to be supportive of all women...to advocate for something that isn't trivial...choice based on facts.
You have an opportunity here to advocate for women and their babies, and for the spread of accurate breastfeeding information so moms can make their choice whether they want to breastfeed or not. You could have posted that yes, breastfeeding can be challenging, and that a big part of the challenge is that when new moms have problem they often are told outright lies or are sabotaged by health care professionals who haven't bothered to learn accurate information or who think they do have it.
Instead of stating as you do that breastfeeding can be painful, inconvenient, and can be frustrating, you could have said that these things are true at times during the process and that some of the issues ease rather quickly with time and practice and most can be eased or eliminated with some supportive and nonjudgmental help. You make it sound as if it is a horrible and useless thing and women should just not bother to try it. Why so angry? Did you not get support or help when you need it? If not I am sincerely sorry and I wish you had what you needed, whether it was support if you didn't want to try it or help if it was hard for you. Of course you have the right to say whatever you like, but there are many women reading who might not bother because you, as an MD who supposedly if people don't know better might be expected to know about breastfeeding, might have credibility with some readers that others posting might not.
I have worked with many breastfeeding mothers, and much of the inaccurate information they got was from peds or OBs, and of course family. We need accurate information in this country, supportive and caring (not judgmental) women to help new moms work through problems if they choose to nurse, and we need doctors and nurses to be actually taught facts about breastfeeding so they can pass on helpful information instead of saying things that undermine breastfeeding for mothers to be given info to get a real choice instead of being told things that aren't correct.
If a new mom is told she can just give formula often, she starts giving it often and not breastfeeding, she won't end up breastfeeding and will think she didn't have enough milk. I'm not saying the two can't both be given, but there are ways to do it that don't ruin breastfeeding. Many drugs are fine with breastfeeding, but moms are told no way. If a mom is sick at first but still wants to breastfeed, many times there are ways to help her do that and support her as she heals. We need better ways to support her if she needs to work and still breastfeed, and the process starts with educating medical professionals and giving prospective and new moms accurate information.
You go on about how it isn't convenient and so forth, but you don't seem to see the whole picture. Who said feeding babies was easy however you choose to do it? Mothering isn't a walk in the park anyway, and yes, many moms DO see changing a diaper, holding a baby to a warm breast full (or with enough) milk to feed baby back to sleep easier than getting up, heating a bottle while baby cries, and feeding it, and then making sure each day bottles are washed and filled. Perhaps you didn't find it to be, but it can be if mom is supported and given the help she needs if problems come up. Giving a lot of formula CAN and often does reduce mom's supply, and then she feels she can't make enough milk when she could if someone helped her and the supplementation was limited and done is a way that didn't reduce supply.
My point is simply that you seem to have a filter just as we all do. I get really sad and angry when women's rights are taken from them or they are told inaccurate information about important things. So I simply want the information to be out there, accessible, given to women to read and make their own choice about, and I want help to be available when they need it...whether they breastfeed or not. I don't want them to want to breastfeed and end up sad and frustrated when something goes wrong, and I don't want them to feel they must be perfect or they aren't good moms. Amy, you are just wrong factually on breastfeeding benefits being trivial. There are many levels that it is very helpful and healthful, and it helps mom health-wise as well.
You know, this whole topic isn't about you versus those who advocate breastfeeding when mom wants to do so, and it isn't about people pushing formula or breastfeeding on moms. You obviously have some bad experiences and I am really sorry, and I wish that your experience had been different. Breastfeeding can be and often IS a great experience for mother and baby if she gets some support and help if she needs it...despite challenges that come up just as they do with feeding formula...and breastfeeding one, two, three, or more babies breast milk is possible.
How about we all get on the same team instead of putting down women for who they feed their babies? That includes those who insist there should be no formula and those who bash women for nursing, and it includes those who make it sound as if there is no other way or that it doesn't make any difference.
Amy, it's interesting you choose to see those statements you say are true but seem to be "sugarcoating" to you as ...well, should we not say them? They are true! How about we acknowledge that raising children is hard work and means sleepless nights and exhaustion however you feed them and that formula can really mess up a baby stomach and keep baby up crying? Geez, there are drawbacks to everything in life. By dismissing it as not worth the trouble you negate the positives that DO add up to make a difference and dismiss the many, many mothers who do breastfeed around the world successfully. So if you don't want to then don't. If others want to shouldn't they get support instead of being dismissed? That is true women's rights...give information that is accurate and let them choose. Make sure help is available and let them choose to take it or not.
Another not so secret but pretty unfortunate problem whenever people discuss breastfeeding is that we all have our biases and our positive or negative experiences as filters in how we see the world and form our opinions. Moms who were judged for not breastfeeding tend to be angry and think many nursing moms are judging them or get defensive, understandably so, when they see moms saying it worked great for them and that most can. Moms who nurse and are judged for it or treated badly, sabotaged, or not supported tend to feel isolated and withdraw when they are attacked for it. Then come the people who feel breasts are fine on billboards, beaches, and store windows, but not when babies are being fed, and of course there is disagreement, anger, and hurt feelings.
The world isn't perfect and most of us mother the best we can. It isn't a contest. I nursed my first child 7 months and didn't have much information. I nursed my twins for over 3 years, but that is me and I worked through challenges to keep breastfeeding. If I hadn't I would still be a good mom and still love my kids, and I know that my choice doesn't work for everyone else.
So how about we all just love our kids and not dismiss each other's choices?
Amy Tuteur, MD- You may want to take a look at the Surgeon General's report, which calls for support of breastfeeding (finally!) and to support the WHO code. There is a HUGE body of evidence supporting the RISKS of formula, including the ear infections, diarrhea, respiratory infections, SIDs, diabetes, childhood cancers... shall I go on? (Its all in that little report you should be paying attention to if you are an MD). You represent a big part of the problem in this country, that our health care professionals, those who are so trusted by new mothers are NOT educated to support breastfeeding or give evidenced based information.
I don't see where Amy is telling any mother to breastfeed or not breastfeed. She just pointed out some possible reasons why American women tend to not breastfeed as long as other cultures. No paid maternity leave is a major factor for many women. In addition, it is painful, difficult, and inconvenient, and many women lack the home support they need to continue. Many of us don't live as near our families as we did in generations past, so family support is not as easy to come by. Other moms often work outside the home, so new mothers can be very isolated while dad's at work.
I nursed for 14 months, but I had a lot of support. I own my business, and was able to hire a nanny to keep the baby on-site so I could breastfeed. Very few moms have that luxury. And I still had problems. My son's nursing sessions lasted an hour and a half, then he would sleep for half an hour and wake up hungry again (rooting, fists in mouth, etc.). Not just during growth spurts - for the whole first 6 weeks. I couldn't get anything done besides feed him. I weighed 10 lbs. less than my pre-pregnancy weight when he was 2 weeks old, because I couldn't even get a meal fixed in the time between feedings, let alone eat it. He was a "wallower", so I couldn't lay him on a pillow to nurse while I ate or paid bills; he would squirm around and lose his grip. He pretty much had to be held in place to stay latched on.
So I supplemented with formula. Some here would say I'm less of a mother for doing so. That if I wanted to bring a child into this world, I should have been willing to sacrifice that bedtime, rest-giving formula feeding, even at the risk of my own health.
I made the decision I felt was best for me and my baby at the time. As he is quite healthy, I stand by that decision.
If problems like I had were addressed instead of swept away, perhaps more women could breastfeed for longer. Perhaps society would be more supportive, when they hear what it's like behind the closed doors of a new baby's home, with mom chained to the couch with a baby on her boob for hours at a time, without time to fix breakfast, lunch, or dinner for herself or the rest of the family, or eat it if she could fix it. Or, if they couldn't be more supportive, maybe they'd at least quit being so damned judgmental.
And I find the lactation Nazis to be mysogynistic. Not Amy. She is the one addressing the fact that there are obstacle in the average woman's life to breastfeeding. The milk police blame and judge women while ignoring the existence of those obstacles. THAT is misogyny.
Amy Tuteur MD wrote "Since when does a woman's right to control her own body end below the waist?"
Some mothers just can't be bothered with elemental infant care, and Dr. Amy is there to tell you that women have a lot of choices because breastfeeding is a woman's choice, not a maternal obligation to her child.
My second child is almost five months old and is formula fed. I wanted to nurse him exclusively because it is recommended by doctors but I had to supplement because of his weight loss. I gave up nursing completely because I was in tears and holding back screams of pain every time I nursed. Visits with lactation consultants were helpful but nothing eased my pain. It was bad enough my older child would beg me not to feed the baby because I would be in tears. With my husbands support I chose to formula feed. I felt like such a failure.. Every one I talked to and everything I read said to push through the pain for the sake of your child. Formula moms are cast as lazy or selfish. This is not fair. I love my children with all my heart and want what is best for them. Whenever I doubt my decision I just look at my healthy happy baby and appreciate the fact that we are all happy and healthy enough to enjoy his smiles and laughs. I just want any mom that feels guilty about formula feeding to know it is ok and enjoy your little one as much as possible because these precious days are too short to spend doubting yourself!!
You tried- kudos to you! :)
It's not easy at the beginning, but it should not hurt all the time. If you can't get it to something less than uncomfortable most of the time, then yes, formula is probably the way for you to go!
Titty twisters definitely don't hurt so much after breastfeeding! ;)
I exclusively breast-fed my children for the first 10 to 11 months (they both quit on their own). Loved it. It was really a wonderful way to bond with my children and was so nice to be able to be half-asleep and nurse your baby in bed. I do wish, however, that doctors/nurses/midwives would be more honest about the pain involved. I think for me it took about a month or so to stop feeling pain while nursing. I thought I was doing something wrong. It takes time to adjust to that sensation.
The second time around was easier. But let's be honest, not all women are into putting up with discomfort like that many times a day for weeks. Some women are just not as strong or are more sensitive to pain. I think every woman should attempt to breastfeed...unless she is on medication or just physically unable to produce enough milk. I actually feel badly for babies fed formula b/c it smells horrible. But I understand some women cannot breastfeed...My judgment comes from women who turn up their noses at breastfeeding, thinks it's 'disgusting,' are worried about keeping their breasts looking 'young,' and generally give very selfish reasons for not breastfeeding...I've met several women like this. One was even a nurse!
So there is judgment coming from the formula-users as well! It's not one-sided..
I personally can care less what women do with their breasts. I have my own to worry about. If you want to breastfeed, great! There is help out there for women who want to. If you want to breastfeed your kid till they are 5, I Just don't care. Women in Mongolia breastfeed their kids till they are 6 years old and it is not a big deal over there.
If you want to bottle feed your kid, great! Only that matters is that babies are loved, cared for, and fed! I nursed my son just short of his second birthday. I am pregnant again with my second and last son. I plan on nursing him as long as he wants.
Yes breastfeeding hurts VERY bad in the beginning! I am fair skinned and the LC told me it hurts more for the fair skinned than darker toned women. I told the nurses that my son will stay with me in my room, no binkies, no bottles. I tried to pump some milk when he was a month old but pumping hurts worse than they actual suckling of a baby. Hats off to pumping Mamas!
Seriously, I am tired of seeing the same old argument, breast or bottle. Who cares! Feed your kid!
I felt like such an evil person in the hospital when the nurses came to get me for lactation class and I said, I'm not breastfeeding. I love my children more than anything but I knew that was one thing I would never do, my mother had the same issues that I had. In the end I never got any milk with either child so it was never an option. Now we are contemplating a baby in the next two years or so and I am hoping to pump if at all possible. Again if I don't have any milk then I guess formula for number 3 will be the way I go.
I had hospital staff, nurses, doctors, and a few friends (who are no longer my friends) basically make me feel like the worst mother ever because I choose formula over breast feeding. I know breastfeeding moms need more support, but moms that choose to not breastfeed shouldn't be made to feel like a pariah either.
"...I knew that was one thing I would never do." Why? Did you have a mastectomy? Some other clear-cut medical or employment issue? If not, I guess I'm a lactation Nazi, because I don't understand or connect with this. Nursing part of having a baby. Why would any woman, choose not to breastfeed beforehand and on purpose? Why choose to deliberately withold what baby needs and is meant to have if you don't have to?
I am pro-choice, but haven't seen this as the same thing, really, but I'll try to think about it more with an open mind. Still, it seems as if a living, breathing, hungry, dependent baby is clearly not an extension of one's own body, although it sometimes feels that way :). I'll think about it, though.
Unless there is some clear-cut reason you're not mentioning, the fact that you "never got any milk with either child" is BECAUSE you didn't nurse. Nursing makes milk. Not nursing means no milk.
Let's repeat that, because it seems as if people don't get it: Nursing makes milk. Not nursing means no milk. You won't make milk if you don't nurse. Colostrum may or may not be plentiful and may last a few days before real milk comes in; even colostrum will stop if you don't nurse, though.
No matter how long colostrum lasts, if you're nursing, there will almost always (not absolutely always, but that's really very rare) be enough milk soon enough.
Babies lose weight the first few days, this is normal as others have said. Medical personnel should not be scaring new moms out of breastfeeding with this normal fact of life. I think that's the point of the article.
Another counterproductive thing is the number of new moms who are told that baby will eat on such-and-such a schedule. Nonsense. Some babies eat ever hour, some every four hours, some in between, some will eat every hour if awake then sleep 5 or 6 hours. Setting up expectations, even in averages, is enough to make a nervous new mom panic or think something's wrong when it isn't at all.
As for those citing the many reasons American women don't breastfeed in larger numbers, those reasons are the point most of us try to make: most of them should not exist in a healthy society. In a healthy society, breastfeeding would be supported by medical professionals, employers, the public and family/friends when needed (not sure why you need family/friends' support, but if people think they do, it should be there). Public indignation/disgust/prohibitions against breastfeeding are barbaric and mysognistic.
Convenience? Wow. Nothing is more inconvenient than bottles. How can bottles possibly be more convenient than breastfeeding? You're talking at least 4 steps compared to one, not even counting the washing up afterwards.
Of course employers should have pumping rooms. Of course lactating employees should be given extra time for it--the health of the country's next generation is worth it. Of course, good pumps should be affordable, whether purchased or rented. Good pumps do make all the difference when a pump is needed.
I breastfed my first to 11 months when she started biting. Didn't seem able to make her stop (wish I'd tried more), and quit. Switched her to whole milk as they used to advise then--she developed immediate diarreah and lost three pounds. Had to switch her to soy formula for the next year, what a pita.
Diarreah is not a trivial issue. More children die of diarreah every year than anything else.
2nd baby was two months premature, a true emergency C-section that didn't heal well at all. I couldn't see her the first 12 hourse due to a situation in the hospital. I actually threw up the first time I did see her--combination of things, including seeing my baby with all those tethers and needles. They discharged me after 3 days, four hours away from home. I had to stay at a hostel nearby, walk nearly a mile to the hospital in terrible pain, rain, snow or shine (it was December and we were about an hour away from Canada) every morning to spend the day with her. No suckle at first, near-constant sleeping (of course, she was 2 months early). I pumped and pumped and we supplemented using "bottles" smaller than eye droppers and worked on waking and latching every time she acted hungry and so on. Worked on keeping her awake while feeding. Kangarooed and rocked her as well as two other babies in PICU that no one came to see (at least not very often). Long story short, she went off formula completely by the end of week 2 and nursed for 4 years (hard to wean when they can run you down :).
Of course nursing hurts the first two months. You can head some of that soreness off by scrubbing vigorously with a rough washcloth starting a month or more before birth. In the first week, it also triggers cramping--a good thing overall, but not very rewarding. Yeah, the thought of nursing in that first week, knowing that it will hurt and bring on cramps is not great--neither is getting engorged, which happened with No. 1. Again, though, the more you nurse, the more milk you make, the less hard baby has to work to get it, the easier it is on you and the faster your body recovers from pregnancy and moves into the next phase.
Look, it's not being judgmental, it's being honest. It's not about making people who've already done whatever feel guilty about it, it's about teaching those who haven't yet that many of the "obstacles" can be worked through with some effort and that's part of the deal of being a mother.
It's not always easy, don't know why people think it should be. Having a baby is inconvenient, bringing a new life into the world should be inconvenient, IMO. It's a big responsibility. Stuff happens, though, and if baby still isn't gaining weight by week 2, then you might need extra help--either in knowing what to do or lactation or medical intervention.
The point is, nobody should be talking you out of it or putting you at risk for stopping nursing before then without really solid medical reasons.
I'm an expectant first time mom and I hope to breast feed for six months. The biggest issue on my mind right now is trying to pump in the workplace. In an office environment predominately women, you'd think they'd be better equipped/receptive to it. :/
Make sure you keep a spare bra and shirt at work; sooner or later you will leak and it is uncomfortable and sticky.
It is really hard to find someone inconspicuous to pump. Perhaps there is a small office no one is using where you could set up a chair? Good luck.
I now work for a large company that has a pumping room, but when I had my kids I was working for smaller companies that didn't offer any such luxury. I actually found myself at one point pumping in the telephone patch panel room! Eventually an office became empty, and I was able to use it (after covering the small glass portion of the door). I was lucky in that there were several pumping moms where I worked - good luck to you. It is challenging!
I worked with a bunch of women too. Don't be as naive as I was in thinking that they will be super supportive and understanding (ALL FOR ONE, ONE FOR ALL does not exist) of the changes you are experiencing (hormones, pumping, etc.). I didn't realize that women were so unsupportive until I had kids.
What I did, was talk to my supervisor and establish the basics for pumping breaks and sort out who (if necessary) could cover my place so I could step away from the desk. I would breastfeed when I got up, get to work early to pump a little, had 30 minute AM break, used my lunch to pump, had a 30 min PM pumping break, fed my babies immediately upon getting home (or to daycare, whichever was later). It is worth the money to get the electronic pumping machine.
I would highly recommend that you let the women in your office know how much you appreciate their support as you go through this life event and your continued breastfeeding efforts. In my experience, if you don't let them know that, they will be resentful of you and you might burn bridges (without even knowing). I got my co-workers a goodie basket before giving birth. What I should have done after returning to work was give more frequent affirmation of my appreciation of their support (I would tell the person who covered me for my regular breaks, but was clueless about others).
One would think women would support each other without expectation, but they do expect something for their efforts or else they feel used and resentful towards you. Which is bad for your career.
I used to pump and a bathroom stall worked just fine if there was no other lounge area available. Bring an ipod with audiobooks (free from the library) or music to keep you from getting bored.
What I got from the article is all the undermining by the hospital. My older son was in the NICU because we had a difficult delivery and he came out with the cord around his neck. He suffered no damage, but was also on antibiotics because of my fever during delivery (the pitocin/epidural combo had that side effect for me, among others). They told me they would not let him out of the NICU or to stay in my room until he consumed a certain amount of formula because I think they wanted to measure how much he got. His weight was fine. I dumped the formula in the garbage when they left the room and he was "allowed" to join me in my room full time. He nursed every 2 hours like clockwork and while it was tiring and made me sore, it was really not a huge deal. I knew to expect a breaking in period. Once we got past that, we were just fine. He grew well and was always healthy. Almost all babies lose weight at first and that is not a reason to panic. Nurses like to see a tangible amount going in, which is why many prefer you use formula. As long as the diapers are wet you know breast milk is doing its thing. There will also be less waste in the diapers because babies digest mother's milk more thoroughly.
I have to laugh at the person who said formula feeding was easier. Ha! I only found bf-ing annoying when I had to pump bottles for him and had to sterilize them. Washing bottles and even preparing them is a chore. You have to then lug around a heavy diaper bag. I did not need special water to make up bottles nor need to keep a supply drying on my kitchen counter. We never had a late night trip to the store to replenish my breasts, need to run out and buy more breast milk if we were away from home longer than expected, nor needed to worry if they were spoiled. If he nursed a little and fell asleep, then it did not waste a whole bottle. I never needed to spend a dime on feeding him (or his brother) formula and he spit up less than his formula fed peers (maybe 4-5 times total in all their months of nursing). My 2 sons had one ear infection between the 2 of them and were rarely sick. They were not colicky either. Our second son was 9.5 lbs at birth and nursed every 1.5 hours at first. I was sore and exhausted, but I knew I just needed to get through the first weeks and it would get easier. I had nursed my first son through the second's pregnancy and beyond because I expected it would change the taste and he would give it up yet he still kept with it. He was nursing less and less as time went on and basically was done by 19-20 mos. when his brother was 2-3 mos old. At the end it was half a feeding twice a day. The same happened with the younger one, but I got a bad poison ivy exposure and needed steroids, so had to cut him off cold turkey at 23 mos. He probably would have kept going, but we joked he had been getting basically dust near the end. You can feel the difference between a hearty nursing session when they are young and when there is less going on as they get older. They never bit me so the myth about not bf-ing when they get teeth is baloney. They nurse less once they start on solid food so it is less often and shorter as they get older. I found it to be a great way to sit down and rest when I otherwise would be pushing myself with more laundry and such. I would consciously try to savor the quiet moments we had together because babyhood is all too fleeting. I do feel that there is a real bonding effect as well.
I am so glad we did not listen to being told to supplement. It interferes with the mom's production and causes the beginning of the end of bf-ing in many cases. It is easy to push it on a tired new mom and in a moment of exhaustion, it can be too enticing to skip. That is why I think many people get pyched out of bf-ing. They get told they are not making enough milk and take that as gospel.
It is also what happened to me during my first delivery when they were pushing an epidural on me. A woman is hormonal, tired, frightened, etc.. and it is easy to be talked into or out of something in that state. None of the interferences are a magic pill as I had serious complications from the epidural and subsequent pitocin that made delivery and recovery harder than if we had not used interventions. My second son was much larger than my first (by almost 2 lbs) and was delivered with no drugs and much faster. I hired a doula the second time thinking I needed more support and yet she had little to do during the actual delivery because it went much smoother. I would highly recommend hiring one for any first time mom and let your husband be your husband by your side and not a quasi professional medical person. I recovered from the 2nd delivery in a fraction of the time of the first.
The rest of the world manages to breastfeed just fine. They also take their whole babies home and don't feel the need to cut off part of their son's genitals for cosmetic reasons. Interventions are a big business and are often about the best interest of the medical personnel/hospital/baby industry more than the patients'. Just because things have been done a certain way for decades, does not make them the way we need to continue. Women used to be told that breast milk was unclean/unscientific by the formula industry because they don't get paid if women breastfeed. We know better now and can do better for having better information.
one4- good luck to you!
Invest in a decent pump if at all possible- the cheapies wear out after a few months, and don't have as much power. Make sure a car power cord is available to buy- if you don't find a good spot in the office, the corner of the parking lot can work if necessary. Don't get one that runs on batteries- it loses power long before the batteries are out. See if you can reserve a conference room at certain times each day. Get the good bra liners at first, once you stop soaking those a few times a day you can try to transition to the cheaper ones. And make sure the baby's caregiver doesn't feed them right before you're due home. It's much easier and better for your supply to directly nurse instead of pumping because they just ate.
I have to say that I rarely leaked. It would happen when my milk first came in but really did not happen after that. I found my babies made sure there was no leftovers.
You will want a bra made for breastfeeding because it is easier to access smoothly. I used the think cloth diapers, that the baby books advised getting, as something to lay on me as a cover when bf-ing in public. Of course, sometimes, the baby would pull it off briefly, but since the baby was latched at the time, nothing truly shocking was visible.
I also want to mention that both our sons used pacifiers and it did not affect bf-ing. If we hadn't, I think one of them would have wanted to use me as one, so they came in very handy. The one who used the pacifier most has the most perfectly straight teeth and the other one has braces but mostly because his baby teeth came out late and the adult ones are slow to come in. That gave his front teeth too much time and room to shift, long after he ever used a pacifier.
I find that people love to scare others about what to do or not do with babies. Things are usually simpler than they can be made out to be. People have been having babies forever without ever new gadget and device. Crazy enough, for my winter baby, a gifted wipe warmer turned out to be a God send because it was less shocking than a cold wipe to the bottom in the middle of the night. I had counted that as a rip off but it turned out to be a good thing. Many other baby items are a waste. I especially regretted the glider rocker. It was uncomfortable and awkward as they got older. A comfy recliner worked much better with baby #2 as we could recline and sleep after a feeding without waking up the rest of the house for the next feeding less than 2 hours later. I still think of that as our second son's chair even though we bought it his first week of life. It was otherwise hard to hustle him out of the room to feed and get him away from my husband and other son when he'd cry sometimes if I did not get to him at the first whimper or 2.
We also never used a bassinet as we preferred them to be in bed with us. We used a sleep positioner to give some boundaries, but it was great to be able to calm down a newborn before they got into full scream mode. I'd often feed him right there and do a quick change without leaving the bed, unless it was to get rid of a dirty diaper after he was back asleep. The less fuss, the better.
The issue of breastfeeding is quite simple. Unless there is a real medical problem or some other serious obstacle, it is worth doing. It is best for the baby and is simple. If it truly can't be done, then use formula. If someone is having problems with breastfeeding, reach out to another mother, a consultant, or even the internet for support. It is not always easier in the moment to breastfeed, but over time, it surely is. There are antibodies that can't be replicated in formula and babies digest breast milk better than formula. However, plenty of children were raised with formula, including me, so if you need to use it, then it is not the end of the world. There should be less judgement and more support of new parents. I hope that anyone who has experience with breastfeeding would be willing to share their advice and be an example of how it can work out well without making someone who needs to formula feed feel bad.
And for the formula feeding parents, try not to be so defensive and quick to be offended by those who didn't use formula. I think part of the defensiveness is a sign of guilt in some way. If I could not have breastfed our sons, I would not feel guilty in the least. If you have done your best, then you need not answer to anyone and should be secure about providing for your baby. I'd only be sensitive about it if I knew I should have tried harder. So the next time someone makes snide comments about the breastfeeding moms, keep in mind what the motivation could be for that.
I breastfed my daughter for six months. She is now a healthy lovely young woman.
My son was not interested in nursing beyond about a month. I couldn't produce enough milk to keep his weight up, so we switched to formula and cereal. He thrived and is now a 6'1" Marine.
Either way is good; whatever works for you, your child will get enough nutrition. Don't beat yourself up because some "expert" (who likely never even raised a child) is making you feel bad about your choice. Being a parent is hard enough without worrying about others are thinking.
With my first child I breast fed and pumped for almost a full year. I was blessed that I could pump for my daughter and my niece (I could fill 2 8 oz bottles in 10 min). With my second daughter my milk never came in I pumped and would get maybe 2-3cc's of milk. Neither one of my daughters could latch so I rented a professional pump one for home and one for work. Please love your children and feed them what you can.
I'm not a nurse nor do I know what kind of training they go through but if they don't already (especially nurses interested in working in maternity), maybe they should receive lactation training? With my first child, there were many times a nurse came in to check on me and didn't see or realize I had a poor latch or incorrect position. The nurse was also very adamant that I should give my baby a pacifier while the lactation consultant said not to. The lactation consultant would always visit when I was asleep after having a c-section so I was never quite with it enough to understand what she was saying. It would have been helpful if the nurse also had some similar training. I'm not blaming the nurses or the lactation consultants but just a thought...
Many hospitals offer breastfeeding classes prior to birth - if they don't, they should!
I always had a supportative environment for breastfeeding. My mother, my doctors and work were all encouraging and accomodating. However, despite nursing my first two and doing very well with it, my next 4 didn't work out at all. Post Partum Depression totally affected my ability to produce milk. My poor daughter couldn't get anything and cried all the time. My last child was taken by ambulance to a children's hospital 6 hours after he was born and spent 10 days in the NICU and finally went home with oxygen tanks and a breathing monitor. I had the best support for him but I still couldn't give him all he needed. Thank heavens for formula. Of course I then had to endure the nursing nazis that couldn't just keep to themselves and would tell me that I just didn't love my child enough because I didn't try hard enough to nurse him.
Since I've done it both ways, when I'm asked advice about nursing or not nursing, I just tell people that nursing is hard, but is best. However, a mom has to decide what is best for her and her baby. Happy moms and happy babies is really what is most important. Unhappy moms have a tough time bonding with unhappy babies.
As with most things in life, each person's situation is unique. There is no cut and dried answer, and the bottom line must the well being of the child AND the mother. In my experiences as a mother, grandmother, mentor and friend to young mothers, I have found that hospitals do, in fact, promote breastfeeding--to the point of not selling pacifiers in gift shops and well-meaning lactation specialists who border on harassment. It is a personal decision, pure and simple. By the way, my grandson pictured in this article and well-nourished and happy, as is his older brother.
I agree that society often places value on formula, which is unhealthy, instead of on breastfeeding children. If you canntoo nurse your child please try human mil for human babies as donor milk is preferable and safer than formula. A lot of folks also do not discuss the elephant in the room which is circumcision. Many male babies do not nurse properly because they have been subjected to this surgery with little or no anestesia and really who wants to have their wounded genitals pressed against feces or urine in a diaper and then pressed against mom so you can nurse. I wouldn't eat either.:/
You are absolutely right about circumcision and breastfeeding. There is a lower rate of success bf-ing babies who have been cut. There have been studies proving that over and over. For more information, you can check out The Whole Network online or on Facebook.
I also found that while pregnant, when I'd mention that I planned on breastfeeding I would hear about lactation nazis and all sorts of derogatory terms for those who promote breastfeeding. In reality, no one ever pressured me but a few nurses in the hospital trying to push formula on us. The lactation professionals and other bf-ing moms were helpful and understanding and a tremendous support to my family. I sense that people who did not breastfeed get defensive about it and have to make fun of it or put it down. It is like making fun of a kid for doing too well at schoolwork.
People in the U.S. seem to snicker if you mention breastfeeding past a few months as if it were unnatural, which is ironic. There is talk about people being pro-breastfeeding, but I found many people who seem offended by the notion in reality. You can see that in the remarks left here by some others. Most of the world and certainly the human races over the millennium have breastfed their babies. Mammals all do it in nature. If it were that difficult or complicated, the human race would not have survived. There are medical reasons some can't do it, but it can also be that some are told they can't when they actually can.
No breastfeeding mother I know judges people who can't breastfeed, but I do suspect that in many cases, the woman was either not supported enough in keeping going by either professionals, family or friends, or there was no real effort made. It seems like it is accepted for most new mothers to try, so some may be trying just so they can say they did, but they really have no interest in it. The sad part is once you get past the early days, it gets so much easier. Many women only know breastfeeding as the initial stage and think it is rough and give up right before the payoff when it is the much simpler way to go going forward. It is like never riding a bike because of a the first few falls.
They also need to publicize how much it does for the mother as well. The weight comes off easier and it helps your body recover from pregnancy and delivery as well. I was in my 30s and never had to fight losing baby weight. I did not count a single calorie nor deprive myself. Formula can't give you that! I just wish I could do so now, so I would not have to feel my pants getting tight over the years or spend hours at the gym to keep the same size, lol.....
That's great. I experienced the same thing when I planned to breast feed. However, once I had serious complications that nearly killed me multiple times and had to be on medications that were unsafe for my son, I had other "lactavists" tell me that I should've never had a child if I wasn't going to breast feed him, that I wasn't a real mom because I wasn't breastfeeding, and other derogatory remarks. Of course, those that were rude never bothered to find out why I wasn't breast feeding - they didn't care about that, all they cared about was attempting to shame me into breastfeeding.
Breast feeding moms DO need support and encouragement - all mom's do, really. We need to drop these stupid mommy wars and start supporting each other. I fully support having lactation rooms for working mom's that need to pump, I fully support breast feeding in public, I fully support giving mom's encouragement to continue breastfeeding when it gets difficult. I also wish that SOME breast feeding advocates would learn to shut up and not judge women who aren't breast feeding. They don't know what is going on in their lives and telling a woman she shouldn't have had a child if she wasn't going to breast feed is highly inappropriate.
There are going to be loonies in any bunch of people. The vast majority of breastfeeding moms are regular people who are just being moms. There are loudmouths about any subject, but it seems that the stereotype of a loudmouth breastfeeding militant is one that is hard to shake.
I also think that most formula feeding moms are doing what they can, but some of them need to quit labeling those who do breastfeed. It is not a competition. We all are hopefully doing our best.
Diana: Exactly :)
We intended to have me breastfeed our son, but for some reason - perhaps the C-section - I never did produce enough milk. We even went to breastfeeding classes prior to the birth and had the LC come in to the hospital room when I was having difficulty getting ANYTHING to come out. Once I asked the duty nurse to assist, and she just about twisted my breast off in an effort to get the milk flowing! Owwwuch! I even had that little tube running down from my shoulder to the breast with forumula.
At home, I tried to nurse, and then supplemented with formula when I couldn't produce enough. We also rented a hospital-quality pump to get as much milk out as possible and bottle fed our son with it. I pump/nursed as often as possible, and at the end of six weeks, I sat in tears on the couch holding my son because he was crying as he was not getting anything out of my breast and made the decision to stop fretting about not being able to breastfeed, and focus on giving my son nutrition from a bottle whether it came from breast or formula. We returned the pump and at three months, my son's doctor said that my son was such a bottle-feeding food hound that he told me to start him on cereal, and to feed him by spoon. He thrived!
If you can breastfeed - great - and yes, companies and the military should support it! If you can't, don't worry about it - doesn't make you less of a mother because of it - just get the best nutrition source that you can for your baby! And if you choose NOT to breastfeed, that's a personal choice, and no one has the right to judge your decision! Good luck to all!
I decided to breastfeed my 4 children because of a close family history of breast cancer. So even though I started because I felt it might help my health odds, after I began I realized that it was more for my baby's health than my own. As the years have gone by I'm elated that studies show what a benefit breastfeeding is for the child. By the way I had no family support as no one else chose to breastfeed.
With that said, I believe each woman should be able to choose what is best for her own situation without guilt. Why must the' Mommy Wars' begin from day 1 with the best way to feed your child? It then spirals into a war of which is better: working Mom or SAHM? And then how early did they walk, talk, read, excel at sports, dance, academics...the list goes on and on.
If you are a mommy to be, take a breath and be ready for a crazy ride. Most of all, love your babies and don't get caught up in the guilt game. A loved baby is all that matters and a loved baby has the best chance of becoming a loving grown-up, no matter if they were breast or bottle fed. Take it from a bottle fed baby who breastfed her own.
Hey, I wouldn't want my nipples all tore up from two years of constant sucking... let alone four years, like that weird lady on the cover of Time...
This is exactly what I'm talking about! Just as much derision from the formula moms about how horrible breastfeeding is...for the mom. This kind of attitude gives other women the idea that breastfeeding is 'gross' or disfiguring, so therefore should not even be tried. Breasts were meant for breastfeeding...get over it.
I'm past four years of nursing, if you add together my two little ones. I'm nowhere near torn up- maybe a bit toughened up, but that's it. :)
Nipples don't get "torn up" from breastfeeding! It is a normal process. Newborns can be a little rough, but they settle down. I breastfed for almost 4 years between our 2 sons and my husband can vouch for how not "torn up" my breasts are.
If you think breastfeeding is tough on the body, then you obviously don't know how it helps lose the baby weight and tighten your stomach muscles. Pregnancy is a lot harder on the body than breastfeeding. I see no ill effects on my breasts. Pregnancy made my breasts get bigger, not breastfeeding per se. They go back to normal size after all is done and may not be as perky, but then again, they got stretched out by pregnancy and you are also a year or so older than before you got pregnant.
I also never had to go cold turkey with milk filled breasts. That sounds awfully painful. Messing with mother nature is not easy. There is also a correlation between lower rates of breast cancer among women who breastfed vs. those who didn't. So perhaps breastfeeding is easier on the breasts than cancer would be....
I breastfed twins for about 11.5 months/ea. I had a cesarean (which diminishes ones odds of successfully breastfeeding). If it wasn't for the lactation consultant that didn't give up on me, I don't think I could have done it. I had a mini breakdown of frustration my 3rd day in, but they let me know I could stay an extra day if I wanted. It helped immensely! My daughter was given glucose water at birth, so when I tried feeding her for the first time, her tongue kept getting in the way. The lactation consultant tried helping me, but what worked was her taking charge by grabbing my nipple and literally showing me how I needed to do it. Some women might not want that, perhaps even get offended. But I was desperate to be successful at this! After your organs have been out of your body on a tray, does it really matter at that point that strangers have seen/touched your body?
My first 3 months were painful, bored, alone, swollen/blocked with milk, leaking all night/day. I told my husband multiple times that I wanted to quit and was going to. He supported me in my decision to continue or quit. Lanolin barely helped. I would be bawling or screaming it was so painful. My poor babies were so confused at me. But I kept on because I was already doing it "successfully" and it was easier to continue than to stop (we would have more bottles to deal with, prep formula as opposed to popping the boob out, it would be physically painful on my breasts to wean, etc.). Technically, I was doing it right, it was my discomfort that was the issue.
The obstacles I faced were the countless pediatricians we saw who told me my milk wasn't good enough and I should formula feed. I went back to work, was accommodated (barely), and did my best to maintain a strict pumping schedule. I was so relieved when my babies started solids at 6 months and took some of the pressure off. Around 9 months, I gave into the pressure from pediatricians out of fear that they would report me as an unfit mother (at one year, babies are supposed to be 3x's their birth weight. My twins were 5.5lb at birth and were 15/16lb at one year = right on target. There is no multiples growth chart, they were comparing my babies to singletons and not taking into account, family history. I am small, my husband is small, my mother had 6 babies and we were all small.).
I resent what the medical community is doing to mother's because of their fear of repercussion. They are letting women down everywhere. We need support of our choices!
I can imagine what pediatricians might someday say about my future children, if I have any. I stand, at 21 years of age, 4'9 and 87 pounds. This is genetic, persay, as I have a heart defect that was undetected until just a few months ago. If they forget that the mother is as small as your average 11-12 year old child, then of course they're going to get concerned. I was born normal weight (7lb, 6oz, 20 inches), but after a few months fell off the growth charts and never got back on them, always maintaining a weight very close to the 'concern' level of weight vs. height (usually about the 8th or 9th percentile of weight vs. height). At 1 year, I was only 16 pounds, so I'd only just doubled my birth weight. And it took me until I was almost 12 years old to get past 50 pounds!
My mom exclusively breast-fed me until I was about 8 or 9 months old, as I had no interest in solids until apricots. Go figure, some kids are like that. My sister was also breast-fed exclusively, but started solids at the usual 6-7 months age. Both of us continued breast-feeding at least on occasion until we were past 2 years of age. It's something I'll always be grateful for.
I have a friend from high school who is your same size, very small boned. She nearly had her firstborn taken away from her because they refused to believe her that she was doing everything she could.
There is this false notion that your baby has to be fat to be healthy. Then we wonder why we have an obesity epidemic.
My boys were born at 5.5 lbs (38 wks) and 5 lbs (37 wks). They've both stayed below average, although my second is closer to the normal range. My oldest has almost always been at the fifth percentile or below on the charts, and is currently at the third percentile at 5 years old. Luckily our pediatrician understands that small kids are not unusual in our family, and just makes sure that they keep up with the range that they're following. We do encourage them to eat high calorie foods, but they tend to prefer veggies and generally run off everything they eat. Fortunately for them, both sides of the family have guys that are small as kids but shoot up to 6' in their teens. Hopefully they won't take after me- not quite 5' tall. :)
I thought that breastfeed 'just happened', like nature intended. Then we took a lactation class before giving birth which was very useful but it still didn't completely prepare me for breastfeeding. It definitely DID NOT come easy for me, my milk took almost a week to come in, my baby dropped too much weight, we had to finger feed him formula during the first week to prevent nipple confusion (or so the dr said) to supplement breastmilk and it was SO painful!
Even now, three months later I cannot say it is going perfectly. We are still working hard at it but honestly if you can make it passed those first couple of weeks, then it just gets easier from there. My baby is still exclusively breast fed and now that I am back to work I have to pump every 3-4 hrs max because I am very concerned my milk is going to dry up. My goal is to make it to a year but even if I make it to 6 months I'll be happy.
I would NEVER judge a mom that has to formula feed her baby, I know how hard it can be and as hard as I had it I know other moms have even a harder time. I do however think everyone should give it a try, work at it, it doesn't come easy! Plus, I know some posts have said that formula is so much easier but honestly, when my baby wakes up in the middle of the night, I am ready to feed him, no preparing and warming up formula required. AND it's supposed to help you lose weight, I think it has def helped me!
Goodluck!
Congrats for making it this far! To keep your supply up, make sure you're getting enough water and food through out the day, even at work. Instant oatmeal worked well for me when my supply slowed down a bit, and there are teas in the natural food section of grocery stores that I've heard will help :).
That is true. I had to work at keeping hydrated since I am not one who naturally drinks a lot. You really don't need much extra food than normal but the liquids need to be increased. I kept taking the prenatal vitamins after delivery as well and then switched to a multi vitamin.
I do not like drinking water but would make decaff herb iced teas a gallon at a time and would do my best to keep drinking during the day. Most people don't notice the difference much, but I do not drink much usually, so for me it was a change. My youngest "baby" is now 9 and I still need to remember to have something to drink from time to time, lol...
The breastfeeding discussion needs to be initiated by the physician, nurse practicioner, or midwife well before the due date. And whatever the mom's decision, she should be supported. It's her baby. her body, her milk.
I was fortunate not to have the pain and frustration that I'm reading about on this board. After that initial "woohah" moment of latching on, feeding was comfortable. But with my first baby, it ended when I went back to work at four months. There was no time and no place to pump. You'd think that a hospital would be a little more accomodating.....
I b-fed both my babies (son until 14 months, daughter still going at 16 months though ending soon) and I agree with the comments above that I think women should be educated about the pain associated with breastfeeding in advance, so they can prepare for it. Everyone talks about the pain of childbirth and then b-feeding pain is the biggest surprise. I was black and blue, bleeding, sore, you name it for ~1 month with my son, 2 weeks with my daughter. Everyone said "it gets better", and it did.
I completely respect those women that try and just don't have the milk supply to support breastfeeding. If that happened to me, I'd be devastated so I can only imagine how you must feel. And i'm sorry. However, if you're stopping only because it hurts too much, I would ask (not demand as some lacto-crazies can do) you to just hang on for a few more weeks; it is SO worth it in the end for you and your baby. Yes, it sucks in the beginning. And yes it is okay to feel pangs of guilt every time someone says "I think he/she is hungry" because the last thing you want to do is actually feed him/her due to the pain.
To the points raised in the article, I couldn't agree more that society (or more specifically, hospitals) need to be supportive of breastfeeding. My children were born in a very nice hospital in a nice area of SoCal (arguably a "forward thinking" area) and I had to be militant towards some nurses who were so ready to shove formula down their throat. OF COURSE the baby is going to lose weight right after birth; you're waiting for your milk to come in and then have you heard of meconium? There's a lot. And it was in the baby. And now its out. That equals weight loss.
I was militant about no pacifiers and no formula and I know the nurses (some, not all) couldn't wait for me to get out of there. In the end though, breastfeeding was successful. If I can offer any advice to those who really want to give it their all to max the chances of success, it is to be militant. And not one of those lactation crazies who are "do or die" about it - to those I say let women make their own choices. But to those that are there to support YOU (i.e. hospital staff, loved ones), let them do so and allow you to be successful.
Ok, I'll get off my soap box now. :)
All women should be able to decide whether to breastfeed or not without guilt. Hopefully each woman chooses what is best for the baby and for her.
However in the US the climate for breastfeeding MUST change. Too often women are asked to hide in the bathroom, because someone is offended by a breastfeeding mom. Most of the times one can not even see anything, but people behave like the mom is doing a public striptease. The conditions for new moms have to get better. The paid leave time should be longer and perhaps modeled after some Western European states. Women should be able to breastfeed anywhere without being bothered. Companies should accommodate the pumping by giving women a comfortable place and time and not tell them 'do it on your break and in the bathroom'.
Don't put women down for not breastfeeding if this society does everything to make it us uncomfortable as possible.
In Canada, women are guaranteed 1 year maternity leave. Now, I don't know what the pay is like, but you are guaranteed by human rights/worker's comp/something like that to still have your position for a year's maternity leave. It's one reason why there are so few daycare spots for children under the age of 2 years in Canada...which is a bad thing, because more are needed, but the government says "Look, we provide this, so you obviously don't need these daycare spots".