Marla-3071717

I understand where you are coming frome.. unfortunately though, we have parents whom are not using their authority properly.

To me, what the school is doing here is a good thing.

Parents force their kids to live double lives in High School.

Parental Authority ? you mean your kids will call you and ask you " mom can I have intercourse? should I use a condom ? " lady what's you problem?!!! just be glad that if it gets there it will be safe!.

Itsabouttime... if I could give you another upvote, I would.

I guess the school wishes to promote safe sex over a parents wishes for the child to wait till marriage. I would rather something a little more proactive occur than a wish.

Doesn't sound like the school is encouraging the kids to go out and "do it like they do it on Discovery Channel," but recognizing that many will and is offering the option of adding some protection against disease and pregnancy. Pragmatic.

Tim-3059121 - Thanks Tim. I changed my comment at the last minute.. to be nicer.. but parents are truly avoiding their role now more than ever. and relying on the schools do it.

Fed Up-3261941

I guess the school wishes to promote safe sex over a parents wishes for the child to wait till marriage. I would rather something a little more proactive occur than a wish.

Then a parent can tell their child to 'refuse' the condom, practice abstinence, and wait till they get married. Do you really think a child is going to do what their parents want them to do anyway?? If a teenager wants to have sex, I would bet the vast majority are going to do it regardless of what their parents say anyway.

Pretending kids don't have sex is like pretending we were never kids.

Okay...you really think your teenager is going to come to you and tell you they would like you to buy them condom because they are thinking about having sex. I think you need to wake up. There is NO parental authority when it comes to sex. Face the fact that you have no control over this area no matter how much you preach and warn. I think it's a good thing that the school has the foresight to understand that things like this happen on prom night and make condoms available...unless of course you plan on giving your teen condoms before they walk out the door.

this isnt about usurping the parents.....its about prvoiding kids with the safety that "telling them NO" doesnt protect them from. If theyre gonna do it.....and everyone does eventually.....they need to be safe. Sex is enjoyable and that enjoyment is available long before the kids will get married in our society. They have to finish HS, then college, then get their career started.....at least that is how the system appears to them.

Get over it....the kids need access to protection cause the parents often wont do it because of religion or denial.

People mistakenly think that, if you don't offer condoms, they won't have sex.

Guess what folks, kids in high school are having sex. Offering condoms aren't going to suddenly make kids decide, "Let's have sex!"

EDIT: Redacted. Missed the part about the condom company supplying it to the school, assumedly, free of charge. As long as tax dollars aren't used for it, I don't have a problem with it.

Kids will have sex, or not have sex, regardless of what is provided at prom. The things that free condoms will affect are sales of antibiotics and pregnancy tests over the next month.

Taking back my agreement-- MLI-- ha. I still have a problem with it. There should still be a modicum of personal responsibility. Remember the good old days when the good girls didn't because they were afraid of getting pregnant and "ruining" their life? Or, gasp, because they'd been taught that premarital sex was wrong...at home and in school? sighhh....I have a dream.....

And what next? Handing 'em a six-pack with the condoms....hell, underage teens drink, anyway. Right? Ugh.

Marla kids are going to have sex no matter what you tell them. It is better to empower safe sex then to make your kids ashamed of condoms and then have them go on to have unsafe sex. It is like drugs, most parents think their kids will not do drugs in high school when in fact most teenagers experiment with pot and alcohol during that time.

Parents should be empowering their kids to make smart decisions not teaching them to be shameful of bodily functions and natural behavior. This is the biggest problem I have with the abstinence people, they refuse to admit that to have sex is Human, it is natural, and it is nothing to be ashamed of. They also refuse to believe that their kids will have sex in high school.

Mississippi is the poster child for my point here, they have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the country yet are avidly against teaching safe sex practices. Anyone that sees no connection betwixt the two is not looking hard enough.

Hey STexan,

I totally get your sarcasm, man! You are one funny dude. I especially like the way you say 'progressive socialists.' You try to sound indignant, but by labeling socialists progressives, you are really implying that the GOP/TP is hopelessly stuck in the past! Brilliant!

Hey, if they had this program in Wasilla, that dumb bimbo, Sarah, wouldn't be a granny!

Ha! Good times!

And what next? Handing 'em a six-pack with the condoms....hell, underage teens drink, anyway. Right? Ugh.

There's a difference, teenagers having sex with each other isn't illegal, but drinking is.

Next time you try a straw-man to justify yourself, at least use one without a huge fundamental flaw.

Marla-3071717

And what next? Handing 'em a six-pack with the condoms....hell, underage teens drink, anyway. Right? Ugh.

Last time I checked, underage drinking was against the law. I do not know of any law that says 'giving someone a condom' is illegal. Sorry, I just can't see how the two are even related, except... teens are going to do whatever they want.

P.S. The school where this is happening.... already conducts safe sex forums. If you don't want your child to be involved in this program. Don't send them there.

Bedford-Stuyvesant Prep, a small, “transfer” school of about 130 students which teens attend after having had academic, disciplinary, or other difficulties elsewhere, conducts safe sex forums and already distributes condoms through sex education initiatives

marla, you have a weird sense of correlation. condoms do not guarantee sex is going to happen but if it does it is a protection from disaease and pregnancy. they aren't ILLEGAL for people under 21 to posess. they also aren't required for sex to happen. alchohol is illegal for them to posess and is the item needed in order to engage in drinking underage. your argument makes as much sense as the argument of "people will marry animals eventually" against gay marriage.

Actually, gang, the correlation seems rather sound-- you're all saying "they're gonna do it anyway," so make it accessible. I do concede that one is "illegal," and one isn't.

Again, I'm with you that parents dropped the ball and teens will be teens-- I'm just not ever going to be there with you that a school paving the way for something they shouldn't be doing is wise. I'll be curious to see how the parents of the school react.

I have a 21, 20, 18 and 17 and a 14 year old-- all STD and child free.

or at least as far as you know marla.

by making condoms accessible you are not making sex accessible, it already is. condoms can be bought by any teenager so they too are already accessible. like i said, weird correlation.

as for the parents of the school's reaction, i can tell you exactly how it will be. look up and down at the posts, some of everything here will be said cause the parents, like the people here, have differing views.

Marla - I really have a problem with your sexist attitude toward women and girls as if they can't make intelligent educated decisons on their own. There's no such thing as a "good" girl....it's a figment of your imagination and every other person's that would prefer to put women and girls in boxes and wrap them up with bows. Women don't have to be afraid of getting pregnant anymore because they have choices and that's a good no that's a great thing. Teenage girls who use birth control or condoms ARE taking responsibility. There's no shame in sex and teenagers will have sex whether you like it or not and labeling women and girls as good or bad is continuing sexist attitudes that have long ago been left at the side of the road.

This is a MUCH BETTER and PRACTICAL idea than telling kids: "Practice absenteeism" People forget that adolescence is the time when all the hormones come exploding at once, and it does not take much to be tempted into having sex at the prom. It is almost a tradition.

Take the blinds off your eyes, and see people as they are: wanting to have sex is more powerful than abstinence. Just ask Sarah Palin's kids.

Nice, Marla,

So, your kids will never have a condom in their hands, but if they choose to have sex, they will suffer pregnancy and disease. You call that parenting?

STD and child free.... as far as today. And you don't really know about THAT for sure.

There should still be a modicum of personal responsibility. Remember the good old days when the good girls didn't because they were afraid of getting pregnant and "ruining" their life?

It's still like that. But teen pregnancy happened in the "good old days" and it still happens now. By providing condoms, you are empowering kids to TAKE some personal responsibility. And it is likely to be more effective than wagging a finger and saying "don't do it."

They know the consequences. Choose wisely. So far, so good. I have a 21, 20, 18 and 17 and a 14 year old-- all STD and child free.

That doesn't mean that they never had sex. They may have had sex and they either had unsafe sex and were lucky, or they had safe sex. I'm certain they made good choices, but you can't tell by that alone.

You mean to tell me that the school is doing their job by educating and protecting your children?!?! That's completely absurd. Rable rable rable rable rable rable rable!

I personally don't mind my child getting condoms because I really don't want any grandchildren at the moment...

HOWEVER... I completely understand parents who would prefer to delay their child's exposure to sexually oriented content. ANYBODY WHO CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT IS EITHER COMPLETELY RETARDED OR SIMPLY HAS NO CHILDREN AND DOESN'T EVEN BELONG IN THE CONVERSATION.

That being said... When I was in school (not too long ago) they taught sex-ed in 6th grade and the teachers had to send an OPT-IN request to the parents if they wanted their child to attend.

The problem is that now there is no opt-in OR opt-out. IT'S FORCEFED because some liberal moron who probably has no children thinks he knows better than a child's parents.

And again-- what a kick in the head. A kid can't carry aspirin in school without a doctor's note-- can't buy a soda or God forbid a twinkie....but they're getting condoms.

This is just blowing my mind.

@Marla

No, you are just wrong with your comparison of alcohol and condoms. Condoms promote safe sex. Does providing alcohol promote safe drunkedness? Sheesh...

world-- yeah, I guess I do see your point-- there were probably better comparisons-- thanks. Condoms promote sex....period.

Guess its better than handing out onesies at Christmas! ;)

And again-- what a kick in the head. A kid can't carry aspirin in school without a doctor's note-- can't buy a soda or God forbid a twinkie....but they're getting condoms.

I'll get behind you on that. I was harassed for having lifesavers candy when I was a young lad. Because, as a young lad, I got HUNGRY.

Boy, this'll crank up the fundamentalists. Get 'em spinning faster than their usual dose of meth. I did note that an astoundingly stupid texan piped up, then figured, bah, and gave up.

Parents: stop whining and tell your kids not to accept the condoms.
Parents: tell your kids not to have sex. Tell them to follow the Palin example.
Parents: don't get a case of the cheapies when it's time to pay for your teenage son's or daughter's baby.

You're a liberal, chances are you've never even had a paying job.

Wait, they'll pay you at jobs now? Where do I get one of these jobs that pays me?! Massive sarcasm.

see-- now, this is what I can't stand. Why can't we have "civil" discourse? Come on, people.

You know, back in the dark ages I went to a school that gave out free condoms to students. Strangely enough, my fellow pupils and I did NOT rush out to have sex straight away. Instead, we waited until we decided that we were ready to. However, when we WERE ready to, we did know how to correctly use various forms of birth control. There was not a single teen pregnancy in my school year, either.

Marla - Here's what you don't understand...it's out of your hands. The stricter you are the more likely your teenagers will rebel behind your back. The kids have the control when it comes to their sexual experimentation because.....guess what? You can't be with them 24/7. All the telling them how sinful it is and what bad people they would be to partake in sex unless they were married is only going to give them issues as adults. Why would you do that to your children? I'm afraid you'll just have to learn the hard way. Oh and BTW...why would you limit your daughter's ability to be and do anything that she wishes in life? Why would you put road blocks up for her to almost guarantee defeat. You should want your daughters to grow up to be self reliant women with their own desires and goals and the ability to take care of themselves and not depend on a "marriage" for fulfillment unless they already have discovered who they are themselves. You are a very self limiting person and you do a disservice to your daughters.

Marla,

When I was young no one needed to promote sex for many of us to want to have sex. Sex happens. Even "good girls" had sex back then. All of societies worries, i.e. "ruined lives", "bad reputation", and the whole God thing, will never override the urge when it comes to human nature.

This once again comes down to the fact that human bodies were made to have sex starting in their teens. Abstinence-only education denies this very basic biological fact. So, wait for marriage... that was much easier to do when the average age at the time of marriage was 15, 16...17.

Totally agreed, Twist-- but the change in society has had to force a change in behavior. Laurie, I see everything you're saying, because I understand the feminist position. However, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. My older daughter is attending college in music-- beyond that, she has been taught that a woman's ultimate job is motherhood.

Again, I said I was old-fashioned, remember? They're all taught old-fashioned, Christian values. The fact that society has changed doesn't mean our beliefs have. Because parenting has broken down and kids have freedom to behave as they shouldn't, doesn't mean I'm going to close my eyes and let the kids run amok. Not happening.

Marla, condoms don't promote sex. Having genitals does. Also, I find it very hard to imagine that if one of your children got an incurable STD (think herpes, HIV) or got HPV that led to cervical cancer, you'd hardly brush it off as "lesson learned." As it is now, your children's knowledge of sex comes (almost) exclusively from tv and the internet. Isn't that a shame? Wouldn't you, as a parent, rather be their source of knowledge about sex?

Marla-3071717, Wake up. you said in your 1st comment --Kids who are unsupervised are no doubt having sex. At 17 or 18 are you going to be holding your child hand every minute of the day or night.When you think they are at school, or friends house or movies or any after school activity, or anywhere, it never enters your mind they could be having sex.And Who are you to tell me that premariatial sex is a sin!

Rather presumptuous, isn't it, amswink, to presume to know what my kids know and from whom or what? As for their consequences, you betcha-- disobedience has consequences. Speed, you get a ticket. Drink and drive, you get locked up....or worse. Brush it off? Well, HIV would be hard to brush off, but I'd make it clear they reaped the results for their disobedience. Again, we're talking as high school teens. What they do when they're out of my house one day is out of my hands. When they're paying their own bills, they'll either live as they were raised, or not-- nothing I can do at that point.

walk-- it's what I believe. Don't believe it? No problem. I am the absolute one, however, to teach my kids that premarital sex is wrong. I have been obviously declaring my beliefs as it pertains to my kids.

and how ridiculously presumptuous so many of you are-- all kids MUST be having sex. As if. Believe it or not, there are actually parents who control where their kids go and with whom...and yes, at 17. Once they're in college, I have no control. When they're in my home, you're darn right I know where they are, with whom. Most gatherings are at my place, or I make sure with the parents that they're home if they go anywhere else. It really isn't so hard, people, to be a parent.

Seems you've forgotten what adolescence was like....

walk-- it's what I believe. Don't believe it? No problem. I am the absolute one, however, to teach my kids that premarital sex is wrong. I have been obviously declaring my beliefs as it pertains to my kids.

Because preaching abstinence has and always will be a brilliant parenting strategy, right?

Yup, Bristol Palin is clear supporting evidence of that.

Condoms DO NOT promote sex. When I was 16/17 (the 'prom' age) I was already having sex and usually without a condom. Kids will have, and do have, sex no matter what their parents, teachers, pastors, etc., tell them.

Recently I was going to be out of town for the week and my 17 year old nephew had the audacity to ask if he could have a copy of the key to my apartment because "That way I won't have to worry about mom coming home in the middle of something". He's had the 'lecture from his parents, from both his grandparents, and from his teachers yet he still has sex more than I do.

Anyone who believes that a teenager won't have sex simply because their parents tell them not to is either wearing blinders or just plain stupid. Anyone who thinks that a teenager is going to have sex simply because the school teaches sex education, or passes out condoms, is just looking for someone to blame rather than themselves.

I whole-heartedly applaud the school for their efforts to promote safer sex. The comment in the article by Valerie Huber, executive director of the National Abstinence Education Association, an advocacy group that resists comprehensive sex education in schools, is a statement of support as well. Valerie says: “We are concerned that the distribution of condoms on school campuses further normalizes teen sex.” She would be wise to acknowledge that teen sex IS normal. Knowing that, why not educate the teens on how to protect themselves? We have the knowledge to do so and to not educate the youth is WRONG.

When can humans have sex?
When nature tells them to.

Everything else is human policy, belief, and law. We do this to protect ourselves, and our children.

That is it. There is no good, bad, right, or wrong... Nature says you can have sex at this age, and we try to build fences around and through it.

Parents have the right... the responsibility... to make sure their kids understand what sex is, and what it is meant for. That will change from household to household.

Inevitably there will be conflict. One household vs another. I agree - the government shouldn't be the ones teaching kids about sex and promoting safe sex.

But the past few decades has shown our government needs to teach our kids about safe sex. Provide an environment where safe sex is available. Perhaps not the government, but someone... something. I don't believe it is the parent's fault, but I don't think they are free from blame. You might blame this family, or that belief... but ultimately the decision to have sex always rested with the children... young adults... themselves.

You can't outlaw it, and you can't punish it. The act of having sex is ultimately punishing enough when done incorrectly and unsafely.

We just know that despite all our teachings, beliefs, threats, and punishments they are still having sex.

Our only response, then, must be to provide the tools and training for the safest sex possible.

All things change... our children will be different from us, and their children will be different from them. This is the best route.

OK. Everyone obviously understands your relationship with your child better than you do.. Some kids are raised with standards and common sence. Just sayin'. Just because your kids dont listen to you, doesn't mean that no one else's kids listen to their parents. Don't judge the actions of a child you dont even know. :)

Marla, you think you know what your kids are doing. You have no idea. No parent does. I frequently laugh when my parents criticize the parents of teens having sex. "Why don't the parents teach them right from wrong?" they say. I nod, still not in my 30's sharing with them that I had sex in high school. Fortunately, I went to a high school that taught us safe sex, and I took the fee condoms as I would have been far too embarrassed or afraid someone would see me and tell my parents to go to the store to buy them on my own. However this would not have stopped me from having sex. It would have stopped me from having SAFE sex.

I was raised to wait until I was married, and didn't-and have still not let my parents in on that. How sure are you that your kids aren't doing the same? Your views are not "old fashioned, they are sexist (a woman's primary job is motherhood? o a woman who does not hve kids has no point in society?) and probably mocked a lot by their friends-and even them despite what they say to you.

Oh, and the huge difference between giving kids condoms and beer is that condom prevent bad things like std's and pregnancies from happening. What bad things does beer prevent? To that end, schools implement programs to keep kids from drinking and driving-even though they should not be drinking anyway.

Marla, My friend's with the strictest parents are the ones who had sex the earliest. My parents were open and discussed sex and the consequences. They let me know that I had control over my body and that they wanted me to wait until I had sex. Guess what, I waited until I felt ready to have it -wasn't married, but was engaged and we married a few months later. My friends who parents were overly strict and "watched" them like a hawk actually made it a point to engage in sex. My husband to be and I discussed it, prepared for it and felt ready for it. No baby, but we shared our heart and bodies with each other. Sometimes letting go a little with get you much better results. By the way I am not that young. I am in my forties, but I still remembered to want to have sex because I was curious about what it was like. I assume many high schoolers are still that way!

I didn't presume anything. You said you tell your kids flat out that premarital sex is wrong, and as an absolute, it's kind of the end right there. Anything else they know has to come from somewhere, right?

Keith,

Have you ever seen the HUGE gap in statistics between the percentage of parents of teenagers who think their teens are having sex and the percentage of teens having sex? Many parents think their kids are virgins. many parents-my own included-think/thought they raised their kids to wait unil marriage. The facts show that most of those parents are wrong.

Most.... Not all!! Thats my only point. Some people have very healthy and open relationships with their kids. Not alot but it does happen.

Marla, you sound a lot like Sarah Palin in terms of what you teach your kids about sex.

I forget-how did that work out for Bristol?

Good for this school. This is a common sense forward thinking plan. Of course we still have those in this day and age that have their heads in the sand and don't want to open their eyes to reality. And BTW giving condoms (not forcing the kids to take either) doesn't mean they are promoting the students having sex or endorsing anything else. Just like when colleges have safe rides or numbers to call to pick up students that are drunk, they are not endorsing getting drunk but trying their best to help you avoid making a bad choice because another option wasn't readily available to you.

Maybe if those opposed would actually bother to learn what is involved in sex ed and what is taught in these classes they would see the value in them. There is no live sex demo or whatever else you idiots think is going on. And that is part of the problem these people don't even have good info themselves. To me these are the people stuck somewhere with those videos that thought duck and cover for nuclear fallout would actually do something for you, something along those lines of common sense.

Trust me seeing photos of STD's is a real turn off and will give kids something to think about before going further. The people who think they can just tell kids say no, that that works, and not have to learn anything else about it are living in a major world of denial. I still can't figure out why some people get so frustrated when it comes to understanding our bodies or expanding our knowledge. Sure learn all the math you want but learn how the human reproductive system works and diseases it can get, no bad bad bad. Me not like. Not to mention all the sexual images our kids are exposed to on a daily basis and what they can see on the Internet. Wouldn't you rather they learn about the truths and do so in a controlled environment?

So instead of trying to shield them and act like it doesn't exist or say they are taking rights away from parents why not actually be parents talk to your kids about sex and then allow the school to fill in the gaps? Parents have no problem leaving kids like school is daycare and not ever being meaningfully involved but when the school tries to do something that is helpful then damn the school? I think they need to have parents night sex ed class or health class if you like. Couple nights of that might get a few to realize what dummies they have been.

It is time to get with the program and join this century. And don't give me religious BS answers either. You can have faith in whatever you want, I don't care but just because your faith says you can't use birth control or whatever doesn't mean you can have an understanding about what is out there and risks to your body and health or allow that to deny others who don't have an issue with this. News flash STD's don't care what you believe in our who you are.

uchusky-- I already admitted I'm a sexist. Totally. My daughters are raised knowing that their highest calling some days is Mom. I don't have a feminist bone in my body.

I'm not foolish. The words "he/she would never" are the most foolish words any parent can utter. I can only hope that what we've taught them, combined with the supervision we place on them, is doing the trick. If not, quite honestly, that will be their problem. They don't have the freedom. They're not allowed to date. They don't go anywhere unchaperoned. Plus, they have siblings that would narc in a heartbeat.... If they can still manage to squeeze it in, that's obviously not something I can control. A rebellious child will find a way to rebel.

Last I read, Uchusky, Sarah Palin fell asleep on the job and allowed Bristol to go camping with Levi....no? I do believe I'm correct. What fool does that? Mine will not be allowed such freedom.

j70141 in Colorado...

Alcohol and Cigarrettes wold be illegal for teens to have. Sex isnt.

You want teens to magically, or perhaps secretly, obtain condoms to have safe sex... but that is just a fairy tale where babies still come from storks.

It is true many teens that know how to get cigarrettes and alcohol know how to get condoms, but we are looking our for the ones that are sure they are with the love of their life and want to show them.

yeah... it is their mistake and they will pay for it. But too many kids are making that mistake lately, and we are all paying for it.

Making the condoms available won't stop the mistake, but it will reduce the cost we have to pay.

Marla...I am so glad I am not one of your children. I am 43 and have never married...if I was to follow your guild lines of sex is only for marriage I would have exploded by now! It is human nature to have sex...telling teenagers to not have sex is like telling a dog to stop wagging it's tail. All we can do is instill the knowledge that allows them to make well informed and wise choices in regards to these kind of things. Would you rather a young person has unprotected sex, gets pregnant or an STD...or...let them have access to a condom...you know...just in case! You live in a sheltered world...come out of your box!

Wow, so many people down on Marla because she is sticking to her beliefs.

God forbid she instill some values in her kids! Oh, the horror!

Whether any of you believe in teaching values, or what-have-you, why all the nasty hateful comments? Not having a good day?

What happens when they go to college and are all of a sudden hit with freedom? Kids need to learn how to handle freedom and make choices for themselves while parents are still around to provide guidance.

So, they get an std that could kill them-which they don't know about because they are afraid to get treatment for it as you may find out through insurance. You are ok with that? That is preferable to making sure they know about condoms? Or, they get pregnant and marry a guy they barely know (and have a
"premature" baby) so as to not displease you...

So, Bristol was allowed to camping with Levi...are your kids allowed to spend the night at a friend of the same gender? Are you positivethey are there? And, I say again-you won't be there when they go to college and have no experience in making choices for themselves!

Yourekidding-1544479

It is a shame many people are getting on Maria... that isn't right.

But those of us that genuinly want to respond to her are worried that she doesn't quite see the pitfall she is making.

She teaches her kids... but what about their own... and their grandkids... and so on.

These teachings and beliefs change over time. They get twisted, or completely thrown away. It is inevitable.

Her kids might be the perfect kids, but that won't always continue. At least one of them will have sex before marriage... even if it is just before they are married.

When enough young adults do that... it begins to create a problem the rest of us have to handle.

I don't argue with her beliefs, but I argue that her beliefs can't last beyond a generation or two. Especially with the technology we have today... tomorrow.

again-- the presumption-- you're assuming they don't know about them. When they go to college, they'll have freedom. I hope they use it wisely. I can't control that. They were taught with values. I can't force them to live by them.

and again-- Sarah Palin allowed Bristol to go camping unsupervised-- foolish. Never happen around here.

But, Wolf-- while I thank you for your kinder tone-- I'll argue that my kids are my problem. Not yours. and yes, not enough parents hold that belief. I'm raising them with solid, Christian values. I can't control whether they live by them when they leave my roof. But in high school? Damn straight I'll control where they go, and with whom.

Marla, for the sake of your children, I hope you are correct. I hope they handle the sudden onset of freedom well and do not make mistakes that could kill them. literally.

I do fear for them though. There will be plenty of camping trips in college.

Oh really, Marla? Your daughters are good Christians and you don't have a feminist bone in your body?

So when you menstruate, you remove yourself from the home? You never speak in church, none of you? As any one of you had a job? Do you wish to own slaves? Did your husband ever tell you that they need to be abstinent, unless of course he needs to sell their virginity to settle a debt? Do you beat those children you love so much?

You should read that book of yours, from what I can tell it's authors hated women (and people of color). Morals do change, it's just that morons don't.

On a related note, those kids of yours are going to rebel against every ounce of guilt you tried to instill in them.

On an unrelated note, BigJeff I love you.

But marla... it is happening.

Not in your family, but in the same family in some other state. Many families... thousands upon thousands.

Not because the parents didn't do enough, but because their kids made the decision.

Because the parents can't force them to live by the values they hold dear... can't force them to teach their kids to do the same.

SumFungi.. Tim Tebow hasn't exploded yet. But in all honesty i aint buying his virginity claims. I mean come on.. he was a National champion quarterback in Florida of all places. You know he boned some chicks on the beach down there at least once. haha

"christian values", oh what a laugh. That can mean so many things.

The school is just trying to avoid "prom night dumpster babies".

Lacie-- read the bible yourself. The Old Testament is no longer followed as law. If you're going to argue with it, please understand it.

I'm assuming you weren't intending to call me the moron. That would be terribly impolite, and seeing as I've had a very respectful tone throughout this discussion, even while attacked, you'd be right to apologize. I won't hold my breath, though.

Wolf-- I know it's happening-- but it's not "your" problem. It's only your problem if "your" kids do it. And again, I'm simply talking high school-- these are 14-17 year old kids that many of you are giving carte blanche to. It's outrageous. When my kids are adults, and can take the responsibility of their own mistakes...you know, whatever.

What a sad day when a person with moral values (like Marla) is criticized and attacked. Teach your child respect for themselves and their bodies and criticized?? A SCHOOL HANDING OUT CONDOMS?!?!? Really?? Is THAT what this country has come too?? Free condoms for underage kids and allow abortions to underage girls WITHOUT the consent of the parents?? Oh that's right - we are supposed to allow children to make whatever decisions they want WITHOUT notifying the parents and that MUST BE OKAY!! Of COURSE we should allow kids to make such decisions that can affect the rest of their life but, no worries, we are ALL for "freedom of choice" (sic).

What was that? Your child wants to go to a tanning bed to get TANNED for the prom and government won't allow without the parent's permission? So let me see if I get this straight: a 16 year boy or girl CANNOT get a tan because THAT might have long-lasting effects but they CAN get free condoms or an abortion without parent consent? All I know is the morals of this country is completely gone. No moral values. No rational logic. Geeeeezzzz............ Unbelievable...............

Marla, stay strong and don't give in to those with no moral values left. There are not many of us left that have moral values so stay strong and god bless.

Thank you, Orlando-- very, very much appreciated.

Marla... it is my problem. Not your kids, but the future and safety of my legacy and what they hold dear. My teachings... my great grandparents teachings... were not enough.

We as a nation have a problem, and it is a problem that is getting worse. We need something in place to handle that.

This isn't the old days... people don't die from their mistakes. They live on. They suffer... they have kids that suffer.

We need something that is more effective than a single family teaching... a single voice. Even the teachings of the church don't last forever... they change. Just look at how the old testament isnt' followed any more... how the new testament isn't.

So many beliefs... so many teachings. All intermingling and intermixing. Kids meeting other kids with different points of views, different beliefs...

Something needs to be put in place that will last past that. That is more successful than one single belief and teaching.

Even our own forefathers expected their ideas to change... Nothing human lasts, but we can still try to do more. Teaching safe sex... providing them with the knowledge, and whatever protection we can... is doing more.

Wow. Marla I have the feeling that if your kids are like you describe them, they really need to release some inhibitions. I don't even mean sexually. Your children sound like they are in prison. By the way, if you're so sexist, then what are you doing at the computer? GET BACK TO THE KITCHEN WENCH!

I can comfortably say, that people like Marla, are not good for our youth... oh, they think they are.... but this stupid head in the sand approach is futile.... Now she might THINK she's doing well, but her naivete is astounding....

"...but the change in society has had to force a change in behavior. ...

...They're all taught old-fashioned, Christian values. The fact that society has changed doesn't mean our beliefs have."

Does this bother anyone else?

In prison? Why? Because I don't give them a free pass to go bang anyone they wish? Get real. Barry, why does it bother you that my belief in scripture doesn't change with the whim of societal changes?

Wolf-- I'll agree with much of what you said, except that giving them free rein to have sex is somehow the answer.

Occupy-- my head isn't in the sand. I'm doing my part to raise Christian kids. We know what's out there. Our kids are in public high school-- I know the problems out there. We're doing our part to keep our kids out of it.

Time will tell if it was successful-- but it won't be the people on this board to whom I'll give an account of how I handed the responsibility I was given to raise these kids.

I'll never understand where this idea came from that schools and the government shouldn't be involved in helping children safely reach adulthood. What ever happened to "It takes a community/neighborhood to raise a child?" Schools are not intended only to provide book learning. They are also the place where young people learn the rules and risks of social interaction. We seem to have abandoned that notion along with abandoning courses on civics, ethics, and philosophy. We teach our kids lots of facts without ever giving them the context to use their knowledge wisely. Schools are supposed to help young people learn how to interact with their peers safely and responsibly. Having a condom with you on prom night is responsible behavior.

Marla -- what rock do you live under. What do you think will happen when you children leave your concentration camp? You rule over their lives with an iron fist and when they get to have their own lives (at whatever point they may choose) you will be left sitting in your rocker wondering what happened to your family because you children will flee from you for a better life. I'm much older than you and have seem it time and time again throughout my life. Of course every single person who thinks as you do will swear up and down the road that they are different. You obviously have not lived enough years of life, seen enough life or experienced enough life to give yourself the knowledge to raise a child. You should have waited many more years before you brought a child into this world but in your holier than thou mind, your wants outweighed logic and you started your family. I feel incredibly sorry for your children and the concentration camp life they will be subject to until they say enough is enough. So much for raising strong, independent thinkers who are prepared for the world they will far when you are just a memory.

Oh, yeah, and Alisha-- dinner's already in the crock pot. I prepared it last night--

damn, I'm good. ;)

Unless I misread what you had written, you say in the beginning of the post that people and society need to change. Then later you say that even though society has changed that you refuse to change with society.

Orlando,

The point of handing out condoms is that the mistakes they make won't ruin the rest of their lives.

Marla was not being questioned because of her morals, but because of the naivete to think that, if you don't give kids condoms-they won't have sex. That is factually not true.

I don't like the idea of teens having sex, but given the choice between teens having sex with a condom or teens having unprotected sex-of course I support with the condom.

I am sure you response will be, "but they should not be having sex at all." Have you looked at the stats lately? That horse has run out of the barn and got on the boat that sailed away-sad but true-and you are still trying to close the barn door and closing your eyes to the fact that the horse is gone.

Why? The consequences for uprotected sex are really, really bad-not just for the teens, but society. Std's getting passed, increasing health care costs, abortions or teen parenhood (I am presuming you are opposed to the first) teens having to drop out of shcool to raise babies, so no job opportunities so they go on welfare. Should this be the reality? Of course not! But look around. We need to address the problems and, sadly, "don't have sex." just isn't working. Until we figure out something that does-condoms will need to be a part preventing the above.

Maybe not for your kids, presuming you know them as well as you think (and my parents still think)but for society as a whole. If you raised your kids so well, they will not take the condoms. But if one less unwanted child to teen parents comes from this schools efforts-bravo!

Marla, I won't tell you how to raise your kids...

I'm sure they are getting good ideas and messages they will hold dear.

I don't think giving them free reign to have sex is an answer, but I can't possibly think of any way to control human nature. We can only teach them about it... help protect them from it. Give them a way to protect them from themselves.

Our kids will go into the darkness, they will explore, and make mistakes. They will survive, in this age more than ever. Our teachings can help, but they won't always be heeded or passed on.

So... we must try to find ways to help the future... to help ourselves and limit the costs of the mistakes we... and our kids... will make.

GT-- once again, your presumption, and arrogance, is astounding. You know nothing about the lives of my children except what little I've shared here, and yet you'll sit there and judge. What cracks me up is that Christians get attacked for "pushing our faith" and for judging others. and yet, through this entire discussion, I have yet to say a harsh word to anyone.

Hypocrites.

My family is well, thank you. They're at the top of their classes, across the board, thanks-- and very active and successful in sports and music. What they are not are worldly and godless, with condoms in their pocket courtesy of Mom and Dad, or their school.

Barry, you misread the post.

Marla, stick to your guns. Our society is normalizing premarital sex because some of society doesn't even believe in marriage anymore. We absolutely have no control over ourselves. Perhaps a lot of us did have teenage sex, but you know what? Now because it's so accepted, there's a lot more of it. Multiple partners is commonplace.

Look, I understand that people have hormonal urges, but geez, can we even attempt control or even try to minimize the activity? What's wrong with that?

Everyone here with the "it's going to happen" attitude...

I didn't have sex in school, not even at prom (mostly because I didn't go to prom)

I didn't experiment with drugs or drinking in school.

I wasn't involved in any gangs or the like (unless a bunch of Magic and Yugioh card-playing, sci-fi watching and wrestling addicts qualifies as a gang now).

I never brought a gun to school or any other weapon even though I was consistently mocked for being a ginger.

I didn't get into fights in high school though earlier years were a slightly different story...

Tell me how any of this fits in with your attitude.

Sex amongst teens IS illegal. Check it out yourself, underage sex, even amongst each other is illegal. I know of a few cases where they prosecuted too.

Uchusky- great points. That is the one thing many are missing. They are in denial, stuck in times past, or just regurgitating incorrect information. Unfortunately it happens. We still have people who think the earth is flat and we didn't go to the moon. I digress. The fact is like you state the "don't have sex" thought process isn't working and it's clear that for school systems that have the educational programs in place the teen pregnancy is typically lower and for those that don't it is usually higher. I really don't get it and find it hard to fathom but I really wonder what some of these people think goes on in classes like this or how it is they think here is a condom go have sex??? Like you said if they raised their kids right chances are they won't take the condom and know better. But sometimes that is not the case and like I said about safe rides, schools aren't supporting being drunk, but like with handing out these condoms, they know there is a good chance sex will happen on prom night and they are at least trying to give an alternative for the kids should it happen other than hoping the words don't have sex will resonate in the moment when the hormones are flowing (someone might say the same about say no to drugs but I'll stop em here because somewhat similar but still clearly different enough to be obvious).

Another that gets me too, these kids are getting ready to go off to college on there own with more freedom than ever and you have parents that have tried to shelter them or deny them access to real information on a subject like sex. It won't always be the case but chances are you have just further fueled a bomb that is waiting to explode.

Q. What is msnbc's purpose in presenting this non-news story.

A. To once again shove the progressive amoral agenda in our faces, and reiterate how ignorant and behind the times non-progressives are. After all, the progressive sexual revolution has worked so damned well over the past 30-40 years....a huge success! Let's see, it's given us AIDS and a bunch new STD strains; a record occurrence of all STDs; and, a record number of illegitimate little bastards running around sucking at the evergrowing welfare teat.

SSP you don't fall into the norm of a kid that is 'prom-going' age. This wouldn't apply to you, but that doesn't mean the school shouldn't hand out condoms to the kids who ARE planning on having sex. I would rather kids have free and unlimited access to as many condoms as they need for when they make the choice to have sex than not give condoms at all because it doesn't fit into someone's moral beliefs.

Can I bring up a point both for those like Marla who are teaching abstinence and those who are "piling on" Marla? Marla is entitled to teach her children whatever she wants to. I don't happen to agree with her, but she is entitled to her opinion, her morals and how to raise her children. HOWEVER - if she is so sure that HER kids are not going to have sex before marriage, why would she be against making condoms available? If she is SO SURE that they will follow her teachings, then what harm is there in providing condoms for OTHER teenagers whose parents may have had a different view?

Marla (and others of the same mind), if you have been "successful" in teaching your children your morals then there should be no "danger" that THEY will take the condoms and have sex. Therefore, you should have NO OBJECTION to the school providing free DONATED condoms at prom. It's that simple. You have no right to IMPOSE your morals on anybody else. If you are raising your children to wait until marriage, then the availability of condoms in school should have NO EFFECT on you, your children or your lives.

j70141 in Colorado - you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Every state has their own age of consent laws. In your own state, the legal age of consent is 17, but there are also laws that allow for 15 and 16 year olds to have sex as long as it's not with someone over 18. In my own state, the age of consent is 14. It's sad to see that you don't even know the laws for your own state and yet I was able to find out what they are in less than a minute.

@Infin1ty, who said anything about morals? I didn't do this stuff because I was disciplined and I knew the risks. Kids today, and even when I was in school less than a decade ago, have the attitude of "it doesn't happen at my age." And parents don't bother teaching them otherwise.

To those out there who don't believe in these things, the harsh disciplines that you look down on so much actually keep kids on a good path. Just some food for thought.

SS - you are right there are some kids who do know right wrong and you can trust them fully. However we all know that is not always the case and that even those you can trust any other time can sometimes get caught up in the moment and make a mistake, we are all human and no one is perfect.

Spider - that is what the condoms and proper sex education hope to limit as much as possible. It is proven statistically. Who is against that again? (mind you I don't align with either, just try to find the common sense side as much as possible when I can)

Infinity - I agree

Cat - great points you are spot on. Very true. Hope they read your post.

j70141 in Colorado

It is illegal in much the same way that working on Sunday is illegal in South Carolina.

When two young adults of the age of 15 have sex, there is no prosecution. No judge, or jury. Just the parents of the minors.

The few cases where they were prosecuted were for what? To teach them a lesson? To add the kids to the sex offender's list?

Did the kids do jail time? Were they traumatized enough to never have sex again?

I don't think so. Sex is our nature... whatever laws, beliefs, and punishments we have, nature still wins.

Is an ineffective law, still a law? What about one no state enforces between two minors of the same age?

It is all speculation and argument... but I'll concede it is a law. A law that is enforced as much as the law that says working on sunday is illegal.

Marla, you're lucky to have a very high horse to ride around the internet on, but nobody owes you an apology. I understand your little book, I really do. I've researched religion so much I can tell you things you don't know about your fairy tales.

Such as, that BS about the Old Testament not being true anymore, because Jesus said "hey guys that's not cool." Wrong. That passage was changed circa 1300 to reflect that the morals of the day no longer allowed for men to subject their daughters to sale for debt settling. You are outside your mind if you think you know the real word of god.

I don't care much for civil internet discourse, Marla, I'd rather be honest because I have to be civil in the real world (in which I will be having a lot of sweaty premarital sex soon). Your poor naive daughters deserved the same, and they have been robbed of it.

This is ridiculous. To all those parents out there who think this is a GOOD thing......

You need to learn how to be a parent. Put the fear of GOD into your kids, make them know in their SOUL that if you ever learn they are having sex in highschool they will REGRET IT for the rest of their lives. And with that, make sure they damn well know that one mistake, one broken condom and they will have changed their lives FOREVER.

To those saying "if you KNOW your kids wont do it, why is this bad?" One word: TEMPTATION! "hey look! Free condoms! SInce I have this, maybe....." Same reason kids shouldnt be on birth control...Because they are KIDS and it is SO much easier to give in if you think you wont have to face the conquences of your actions. They are NOT old enough for this responsibility.

Cat-- my only problem is with the schools, as I mentioned initially, usurping parental authority. Stick to reading, writing and 'rithmetic, and let parents take care of the rest. and yes, now it's a two-edged sword. Too many parents didn't want to do the nasty job of teaching about sex, so the schools do it....schools do it, so now parents don't have and remain lazy and uninvolved.

I'll handle the moral education, thanks-- you, schools, stick to academics.

SSP - I wasn't talking about your moral beliefs, I have no idea what they are, that was a generalized statement. Dude, that's awesome that you chose not to do those things, the whole point is that you CHOSE not to do them. Just as the kids are CHOOSING to have sex. My entire point is that kids have the right to chose when they want to have sex, parents have absolutely no say in the matter, so when the time comes I would rather those kids have as much easy access to devices for safe sex as we can produce.

Maria, It's unfortunate that so many people are obtuse in their thinking. I agree with everything you're saying, and this article made me upset as well. Everyone here knows about safe sex, and that condoms are what intelligent people use when having sex out of wedlock. But do we really need to live in a society where condoms are handed out to our kids, like candy at Halloween? Where's the discretion? More importantly...where's the focus on moral values? Everyone is so focused on providing a safety net that they are forgetting the other half of the equation, instilling some family values. Maybe I'm just old fashioned (especially for being only 31), but there is something to be said about the sanctity of marriage. It's too bad that more people don't share your views on parenting.

Lacie, I can be honest and civil. It doesn't tax me as much as it seems you-- and that book pretty much requires it of me. That one you seem to know so well?? Yeah, that one.

My naive daughters will be just fine without the freedom you apparently wish they had to be a slut.

Have a good night.

Keep up the good fight Marla, I'm behind you 100%. I've raised my children much the same way you have. My wife and I taught them all about the how's and what's of sex, intercourse, etc.. and had no problem with them learning about it in health class in school. We have discussions with them whenever they want. But, clearly the message is that this is for marriage. It is a total body and spirit thing. Acting like the animals, just doing it because the body desires it, belittles you. And, as you have said, while they are under our roof they live by our rules. If they think they are mature enough for sex, they are also mature enough to get a job and move out on their own, etc... And we do keep track of them and their friends very closely. They have only been allowed to stay over at friends' homes where we know the parents share our values. And they are all happy well adjusted kids/young adults. They are active in school, church and community; and have healthy self esteem. They know that there is a lot to accomplish in life ( education, getting a job, home, car etc... ) that a few minutes of fun can ruin.

Those of you who use the cop-out "all kids do it" "you can't stop them" etc.. are just taking the easy way out. I had aunts/uncles with that attitude, their kids turned out as bad as the parents predicted they would, and are living lives far less happy then what they could have. My parents were strict with us, and taught us morals and ethics and religious values; we've all turned out pretty darn well. No later in life hang ups over sex, none of us went nuts in college when not under the "iron thumb" of our parents.

Raising kids with "old fashioned" values/morals ( whatever you want to call them ) is a lot harder, and harder now than it used to be. But it is very worth it, every last minute of it. it used to be society helped the parents trying to raise thier kids this way; but now society is undermining it. That's ok, the good fight is still worth fighting.

We can only try to raise them right, and everyone's definition of right will vary; but it is possible to guide and control them without making it unbearable and make them want to run out and do the opposite of your beliefs, it takes communication early and often, making and enforcing rules without onerous punishments, and lots of prayer.

My parents raised us with strict rules and control, only one of the five of us got preggers before marriage, she's also the only one who smoked or drank before 21 years old: some people will have an attitude that almost nothing will change. My wife's parents were "friends" to their kids: all four smoked, drank, tried drugs and has sex before getting out of high school. Two out of wedlock pregnancies, three failed marriages, drug abuse/addictions, failed jobs... I lucked out that my wife saw what her siblings were doing and changed her ways and attitude before I met her. Had we known each other in high school neither of us would have had anything to do with the other :-) But, after college, after we both had good paying jobs, we met and had a meeting of the minds and souls. And we learned from our upbringings, good and bad. You have to teach your kids right and wrong ( your version of it ), teach them that others don't believe the same way, prepare them for what they will see at school, in movies and on TV, discuss it with them; don't condemn them for questions, and support their good decisions. And, while they are too young/inexperienced/immature to make good decisions in tough situations - you keep them out of the tough situations. when they are ready, you let them go and pray for them.

Marla, I wish you lived in Pittsburgh, I'd love for my 20,16 and 13 yo kids to know yours.

Lola007...

Many parents in the US don't follow God, much less his fear.

E Pluribus Unum - Out of many, one

that was the US motto before it was changed in the mid 1900s. About the time of the Second Red Scare...

Our founding fathers knew not everyone in the US followed the beliefs of Abraham and the eventual Christian/Muslim teachings...

So they gave us a motto that was meant to represent that.

We are a nation of many... for some there is no fear of God... much less God at all.

We have to have solutions that handle that. Like our forefathers had.

Balboa-- spot on, my friend--

Enjoyed (most) of the discussion, everyone--

I'm out of here. Have a great night.

j70141 in CO ... actually, prom age children are usually ABOVE the age of consent in whatever state the prom is held in. The average age of consent is SIXTEEN country-wide. Therefore, for 16 - 18 year olds, there is NEVER a law against them having sex with each other.

http://www.ageofconsent.us/

http://age-of-consent.findthedata.org/

In addition, there is usually an "age differential" that must be met between the parties before it becomes actually ILLEGAL when you're talking about someone who is 16, 17 or 18 and one person is above the age of consent and the other is below. In fact, in YOUR state, the "age of consent" is SEVENTEEN and the age differential in YOUR state is 4 years. So, in Colorado, if a 17 year old has a date who is 15 and they have sex it is NOT against the law. It is not even against the law if the 17 year old's date is FOURTEEN. It only becomes statutory rape if the date is THIRTEEN or younger.

pittsburghboy-- so glad I read your post before heading outta here!!! Have a great night!!!

Wolf

You have really never heard that paticular expression before? Serious?

OK.....put the fear of their MOM and DAD in them.....for most kids these days, that would be more terrifying anyway

hey look! Free condoms! SInce I have this, maybe

Do you understand teenagers at all? This is not how they think. If they only thought of having sex if they have a condom in their hand, there would be a lot fewer std's and teen pregnancies out there.

Plus, the condom is the temptation? Really? Temptation does not exist on its own, but put a condom in their hand and suddenly they are tempted beyond reason?

Kids shouldn't be on birth control? These are the same kids you are saying are too young to make good choices for themselves, and you want them to be parents??? At least, if they are going to make the mistake of having sex too young, let's at least not bring an unwanted baby into the mess!

Fear of God? Unprotectd sex can KILL them with a horrible disease! If that hasn't stopped them, you think the fear of God will?

Your points make sense only if you have no understanding whatsoever of the psychology of teenagers.

I'll handle the moral education, thanks-- you, schools, stick to academics.

Condoms are not about morals-they are about saftey.

We teach kids in schools to look both way befor they cross the street. I presume you have no problem with that.

We teach kids in scools proper nutrition to be healthy. I presume you have no problem with that.

We teach kids in schools (or we should) to use a condom to prevent dsease and pregnancy.

It has nothin to do with morals-and everything to do with saftey. You can still teach your kids the morals of not having sex-no one is taking that from you. They are just providing resources to be safe.

It is like having a crosing guard-why would you need a crossing guard if you teach kids to look both ways? Because sometimes they don't and get kiled if there is no crossing guard there. Having a crossing guard may make kids less likely to look both ways, but is better than dead kids. Same applies here.

It's a familiar phrase.

But the idea behind it is no more effective than fearing Mom and Dad. How many generations will that last? Does being afraid of your parents even lead you to make your kids afraid of you?

I've said it before... family teachings, or even religious teachings don't last. Much like I said with Abraham -> to Christianity/Islam... everything changes.

We need more than just fear, teachings, and punishments. We need knowledge and the availability of tools for the kids to protect themselves from the mistakes they will make.

uchusky

THats funny, because I WAS a teenager not that long ago......

Handing out condoms and putting them on birth control just gives them MORE reasons to have sex, not fewer, seeing as how everyone, INCLUDING their parents and teachers, keep telling them that its ok and gives them the ability to do sans conquences.

Start teaching your children morals and responsibility...not "im responsible, I have a condom" but "im responsible, Im not old enough for kids and im not in love, so I wont have sex." Believe it or not, 50 years ago people survived into adulthood without having sex in highschool....there is absolutely NO reason they cant now, except that no one gives them any reason to do so.

wofl

Youre right, they DO need more reasons to not have sex.....so give them more, instead of more reason to HAVE sex....which is what handing out condoms is doing.

Sex education... slides and information about STDs.

And even after all they they still have sex. Even after being told how babies are conceived, and what having kids means. The consequences and the responsibilities...

They still have sex.

Not one or two... or a hundred. thousands. Millions.

So we must protect them when they choose to. Human nature overwrites all things, and we must make it possible to not let it ruin them. To not let it ruin us.

We are beyond honor killings and forced marriages. Beyond teachings that change over generations. We are beyond religious law at this point. We are a nation of many beliefs and ideas.

and we need a solution that goes beyond that...

lot of you adults here are saying teenagers are "gonna have sex anyway, might as well make it safe." That's simply not true. As a 16 year old guy, I won't have sex without protection. Giving me condoms would enable me to. I have many friends that don't have sex without protection.

Most parents teach their kids not to have sex in highschool/before marriage. Why would you simultaneously teach that then remove the consequences? Not many teens are gonna abstain from sex cause their parents said so; a LOT however, will abstain to avoid a child or STD.

It's simply not true that teenagers are gonna have sex "anyway." I personally feel that if me or other teenagers want to mess around, the punishment/result (STD/child) fits the crime. Otherwise don't raise your kids to believe highschool/pre-marital sex is wrong.

schools have no obligation, responsibility nor authority to pass out condoms anytime at schools or at any school function. sexual relations for a minor are between the minor(s) and their parents, no one else. this is just one of the problems with schools, they dont know how to just teach and provide a educational environment, instead they are taking power away from the parents. this school is promoting sex, not what it is suppose to be doing.

condoms do not protect you 100% from std's or anything for that matter, they are fallible, abstinence with proper education will protect your kids 100% of the time and if you dont have a relationship with your children to where they can come up to you and talk about sex or any other important life choice then you are a bad parent plain and simple, not everyone should have kids.

so when the government makes something illegal all you followers abide? you do understand that government sets the minor ages and government set drinking ages and government sets a lot of laws that they really dont have the authority to do(the people never passed any of these laws). did you know back in the days of old you could allow your child to drink and its wasnt illegal, you could smoke and do w/e to your body and no one told you different, there was no 'age of consent' back then and no child labor laws. back then there were parents that knew how to raise, discipline and educate the youth, now we just let someone else do that.

Marla and Orlando, It's scary on how there isn't a damn person on this thread that gets what you guys are talking about. Parent's,real parent's that is, spend a lot of time with their kids.They teach them. So all of that is thrown out the window when the principal whom the parents taught their kids to respect tells them it's OK if they go out and get laid. You guys they just don't get it. The principal and the Vine contend that," oh they were going to have sex anyway and we're making sure that no one got knocked up or an STD". No harm right!? God forbid they end up like Bristol Palin. What they are doing is giving the go ahead to have sex without repercussion of their own advice,not taking into account peer pressure or how uncomfortable it made the students that wanted no part of it! Are they going to be there to hand the condoms thru the car window days later? That Principal needs to have his computer siezed for possible child porn! How could anybody" encourage" intercourse at a high school prom? Bristol Palin is going after Levy for child support,her kid is not on the tax payers dole. She is outspoken on how having a kid out of wed lock is not the way to go. And its true Bristol is surviving because she has good parents. Bristol is not getting along on a monthly Social Security check and a Link Card for food plus free state health care. Who is paying for all out of wed lock anchor,welfare,father unknown,etc babies? 1/20/13 THE END OF AN ERROR!

Lets be real here fellow travelers, there is no single better example of an UTTERLY COLOSSAL, SPECTACULAR FAILURE, than sex education in schools. Since the 70's when this experiment was first trotted out, teen pregnancy rates have gone up, and up, and up. This is the exact opposite of what was promised. Furthermore, since when are condoms "safe sex"? Its not a matter of if you'll get an STD or pregnant, just a matter of when. This school crosses the line by handing out condoms, by doing so they're encouraging kids to have premarital sex. This is wrong!

Every man, woman and child should have access to contraception. Denying contraception will not stop teenagers from having sex. The Earth is a limited resource. Human population can not expand without constraint on this one planet.

Marla...

I've read comment after comment of yours. Lunatic ravings is what I call them. I've listened to you "ding" your halo for not being insulting to others, etc... I was raised in a house like yours. My "parents" are both selfish psychopaths trying to get into heaven and they absolutely destroyed me and my three brothers with this insane religious drivel. We were raised in a Baptist home and went to a reasonably mainstream version of that particular "death cult". All four of us are athiests. We've decided that any "god" who wants us to obey or die is a lunatic that doesn't deserve anything but comtempt...just like you and your husband deserve nothing but contempt. I get along with my mother but I feel very sorry for her every time I speak to her.

Also, get off your ridiculous high horse about how f***ing polite you are. I was raised by a person like you and I know that you despise and hate every person you meet because you "KNOW" they're all going to hell. You don't find it necessary to insult people you feel are subhuman do you?

Finally...I went absolutely insane when I got on my own and finally had the ability to make a decision. I made all bad ones....so did my three brothers...each of us suffered for years from being raised by lunatics with their heads in the sand.

OH, and while they're handing out the rubbers, are they giving kids a free voucher to the local hotel too? I mean if your going to encourage sex do it right or don't do it at all. How I hate the way this country has turned out.

Ahhhh..... at what age do you consider sex is just one of those things kids are going to do? Before you answer, I live in Detroit and we in this city are talking young "children". Well I consider 9-15 children.

greg-- you sound like a miserable person. Sad. You know nothing about me. Personally, I don't go to church because of the hypocrisy. My kids haven't seen the inside of a church since 1998. The scriptural command to not forsake the gathering of believers, we feel we meet by gathering with our Christian friends and family.

I don't know what went on in your home, but I'd appreciate you refraining from comparing it to something about which you know nothing. Perhaps they were psychopaths. Perhaps they were just Godly parents against whom you rebelled? Who knows?

I don't, and personally don't care. You know nothing about how I feel about anyone. I'm called to be an ambassador of Christ, and do succeed, thank you very much, at being kind and respectful. The only person I can truly say I came close to hating ever was an old, mouthy, buttinski neighbor of mine...named JoAnn. Beyond that, I don't hate anyone. I can very strongly dislike how you're speaking to me. But I don't know anything about you or anyone else on this board. So hate? Nope. Sorry to disappoint.

Unlike many Christians, your salvation is not my concern. maybe I should care, but I just don't. That's your problem, and God's-- not mine. I'm not trying to save the world, or save you. I've done very little bible thumping, except when to illustrate why I believe what I believe. I'll continue to raise my kids as I believe scripture commands. They're all reasonably hard-working....considering their kids....well behaved, respectful, normal kids-- well, normal if you consider that they're not given a pass for sex on demand.

Your life sounds miserable.... Maybe when you grow up, you'll stop blaming Mommy and Daddy? Food for thought.

Marla,

After reading many of your comments I feel compelled to comment (something I never do). I am a christian and was raised with parents that have views that sound strikingly similar to yours. I was raised to wait til marriage to have sex and never heard a thing about safe sex. Guess what?! I became and adult, and really had no knowledge of how to protect myself from pregnancy or STD's and ... you got it.. I got pregnant. Unfortunately, (or by God's grace) I had a miscarriage that saved my future from being much more difficult than it was going to be. I learned a lesson, but had I known my options, or felt that I could have been open enough with my parents to discuss these kind of things, I might have been spared this emotional trauma (something I might add, I still deal with to this day).

Coincidently, I was a high school teacher and counselor for 4 years in Texas, an abstinence-taught only state, and I saw more GIRLS pregnant than I ever thought possible. It is illegal for me to tell my students about safe-sex, so they are doomed to repeat their mistakes, as are their children. I won't lie and tell you than I did not have a drawer full of condoms that when I accidentally left the room, would mysteriously disappear. I could not in good conscience let CHILDREN make mistake that would ruin their future without helping in someway.

I say all this to make you think. I was raised to believe just as you do, however, the world we live in does not live by God's standards, thus we cannot force people to live by His. We can lead by example, but there also must be a middle ground on which to walk. I think what this principal did is wonderful. It is no way promotes sex, but it says ' we understand that some of you are more than likely going to have sex, so here is a way to protect yourself, so you don't ruin your future'. As a previous educator, I think this is the best thing that can be done.

As a side not, I currently run a foster and adoption agency that works with CPS. Guess where all of those children of teenage mothers go.......... Think on that.

Dear Marla,

God on your side ! Stay strong and be BLESSED by LORD !

Marla,

Good for you, stand up for what you beleive in!. I'm ashamed at some of the comments directed at you though. You stated how you were raising your children, not how everybody should raise theirs. I really wish people would read , not just jump to conclusions. I really believe that the worst comments came from people that know deep down in their hearts you are doing the right thing.

You have got teach children morals and values, then, as they grow up, they will have the knowledge to make the right choices.

Greg Harper,

You rag on Marla. You stated that your parents raised you like she is raising her children. But YOU made all the bad decisions, not your parents. They taught you right. Take responsibilty for your actions!

Marla, DARLIN' why the heck is your tone sooo smarmy and dismissive? I said I happen to disagree with you, but support your RIGHT to teach your children what you will regarding sex and morality. I repeat that you DO NOT have a RIGHT to impose YOUR morals and high-horse on others. IF your children are following your teachings, then you should have NO problems with a threat that YOUR children will take the condoms. Therefore you should have NO problem with the school providing condoms at prom to other teenagers who may not have good communication with their parents. You do not have a right to make decisions for OTHER FAMILIES and you do not have a right to make decisions for teenagers who do NOT belong to your family.

Let me tell you something ... my sister (who is in her 30's) had a baby 2 1/2 years ago and even though she had an emergency c-section she had to have antibiotics OVER AN HOUR before her emergency c-section - when she has placenta previa and was BLEEDING and her baby was in danger of not getting enough blood - because when she was in her 20's a boyfriend neglected to mention that he had GENITAL HERPES and gave them to her. Now, you're likely to say that it's JUST and RIGHT that she will have an STD for the rest of her life and that her daughter's life was endangered during birth both by the herpes and by the lack of blood and oxygen because the placenta was too close to the cervix and as the cervix started to dilate, it dislodged a part of the cervix because she had SEX outside of MARRIAGE after her husband DIED. Which, if that's the way you feel ... I sure hope that YOU never have to deal with a daughter of yours being told that she has HERPES and now can NOT have any delivery of a baby without antibiotics to protect YOUR grandchild ... even if that baby was conceived after she gets married. EVER.

Your tone and words are really sanctimonious. You sound like a really intolerant person which means that IF your daughters are having sex outside of marriage - even before they turn 18 - you will be the LAST to know. My parents told me that they would prefer that I wait until I got married before I had sex, but that if I needed birth control to PLEASE let them know so that I could get birth control. They kept the lines of communication OPEN because that was the best way to make sure that communication HAPPENED. You are passing judgement on people that you don't know - and I DEFENDED YOU. But you weren't having any of it since I hold a view that schools SHOULD provide condoms and that if you REALLY have a good communication with your kids and they REALLY subscribe to your RIGID teachings then they're in no danger from the condoms ... You decided that YOU know better than every other parent in your community and DISPARAGED them:

Too many parents didn't want to do the nasty job of teaching about sex, so the schools do it....schools do it, so now parents don't have and remain lazy and uninvolved.

BTW - I am 43 and my son is only 5, but I am teaching him proper names for his anatomy, have started the talk already about sex education because HE asked, and plan to let him know that while it would be BEST and I hope he DOES wait, that if he needs condoms that he is to let me know and I will provide them for him. Because the best way to shut down communication with a teenager is to make it black and white and let them know that you will NOT accept it if they decide at 16 or 17 that they don't agree with YOUR morals. Sex is NOT NASTY. If that is what you are teaching your children, then I feel sorry for them. The human body is beautiful, sex when done with love and care for the other person is beautiful AND FUN and neither are something to be ASHAMED OF. Teaching your child about their body and sex is something that should be done with love and with the idea that they should never be ashamed of their body. The term "the nasty job of teaching your kids about sex" shows me that you subscribe to the idea that sex and the human body is DIRTY and NASTY. Sex can be dirty ... and sometimes it's more fun when it IS down and dirty and both partners want to get down and dirty.

Oh, and before you tell me that I have no idea how to be a parent to a teenager ... I was a step parent during my previous marriage to kids who ALL either went entirely through their teens while I was in their lives or entered their teens while I was in their lives. I was THE primary parent during those years ... my ex-husband was not engaged in raising them much. Three out of the four kids were GIRLS. The oldest was the only boy and he learned because of me HOW to respect women and care for them - primarily because I showed him a woman worthy of respect. Been there, done that and had better lines of communication with my step-kids than they had with EITHER of their biological parents. I also never talked bad about their mom - if THEY complained I always told them that she was doing the very best that she knew how in raising them. I also never talked badly about their dad and when HE started talking bad about me during the divorce and pumping them for information about me I told them it wasn't fair to them to be put in the middle and that I wasn't willing to allow that to happen so I was cutting off contact for their own good.

Cat-- I didn't realize I was being smarmy and dismissive. I apologize if I came out that way. I thought I was simply answering the question. I'm curious why you feel I'm trying to tell parents how to raise their kids. I'm simply trying to keep MY parental rights alive.

As for my 16 or 17 year old telling me they don't agree with my morals? Tough. You're a minor, under my roof. When you're 18 and can support yourself, live how you like, where you like. When I pay the bills, I make the rules. I'm not trying to be their buddy. I'm their parent.

I really respect what you did with your step kids regarding their birth mother. Bravo. I'm sure that was trying at times.

Bottom line-- I'm all about parental rights. You don't have to agree with how I raise my kids. I don't have to agree with how you raise yours. But, I do have something to say if the school steps in.

And, Cat, no we don't teach them it's nasty-- that's absurd. But because sex is not nasty, rather beautiful and special, it should be saved for their husband or wife. We're also fairly strict about their clothing. You have a beautiful stomach-- the world doesn't need to see it. Your body is for your husband some day.

Personally, our goal is simply to keep them from the situations where sex is "inevitable" to use everyone's words. They don't car date. They don't date! We practice courtship, under our roof.

I used "nasty" as an adjective purely to illustrate that it must be a "nasty" job, because the parents have punted the job to the schools. My home town grade school kids learned in first grade how to put a condom on a banana-- is that really necessary? It's not the school's job to teach this. Parents need to take back this responsibility, and tell the school to stick to academics.

And finally, regarding your sister-- "just and right" weren't the words that came to mind. It's sad. If my married daughter comes to me one day and says that she was infected by her husband, who failed to tell her, I'd be horrified-- that's horrible. I'd be sadder if she had sex outside of marriage, which she has been taught from the cradle is wrong, and had the same issue because then her problems are two-fold. She has sin to deal with, and then the very sad consequences of it.

Curly-- I appreciate that you did not feel you could violate your own conscience. But, what you did in essence was undermine the parents-- very much like this school is. You're doing what you feel is right. I just can't agree it was your place to do so.

As the old adage goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

marla your wasting your time trying to argue for personal responsibility to this crowd, if any of them or their children get pregnant their first instinct is just gonna be to blame George Bush, works for the economy doesnt it?

Curlysue

In this day an age, I HIGHLY doubt that these girls youre talking about got pregnant basied solely on the fact that they didnt KNOW about condoms. I learned what a condom was in FIFTH GRADE that that was like 18yrs ago. I find hard to believe that girls having sex in highschool dont KNOW how to protect themselves from having kids. Youre ability to tell them to use one would not have changed the fact that they didnt and got pregnant.

Once again, parents need to step up and teach their kids RIGHt and WRONG, and make it clear that there is no good reason to have sex.....and TONS of bad ones. Stop accepting that there is nothing you can do.....you are the PARENTS! There is ALWAYS something you can do.

So, there, tyler, do you suspend people for lying? For repeating lies? For bigotry? For obvious racism? For purveying delusional superstitions?

Uh, no?

lola007 -

I never once stated they did not know what a condom was or how to use it. Availability it is issue. When you were a teenager, did you feel comfortable going into the neighborhood grocery store or pharmacy to purchase them, where someone that you or your parents may know could see you? Sex is an adult decision, unfortunately, teenagers are physically adults while still having the underdeveloped minds of children. Sex is a natural urge, and most people will give into that urge. What educators need to do is provide a solid foundation, and if possible precautions so that children do not end up having children.

I agree with many of you that this will step on many parents toes, and it should. The major problem is for a large percentage of the children today, the TEACHERS have become surrogate parents. Instead of being able to actually teach academics, parenting responsibilities have fallen to them. I know this first hand. This is not from anything I have read, heard from someone else, etc.

I applaud those of you who take an active role in your children's life, and actually do what a parent should ...PARENT! I am grateful that I had wonderful parents that did so. But I ask Marla, and all the other conservative thinkers on this thread to think on something, just because someone was raised amazing and to believe one thing, as I was, does not preclude them from acting of their own free will and make poor decisions. Correct me if I am wrong, but Jesus came to die for every sin, and not just the ones that you deem ok.

That being said, stop with the judging. People, teenagers especially, are going to make decisions about sex before they are ready to understand the consequences fully. Let's help them with these decisions, that they will make whether we approve or not, to have a safe and successful future unmarred by unplanned children and STD's. Education is power people.

And Marla, while you may think that some of my decisions, as you put it 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' were ill-advised. Would you like to be caring for your 15-year old daughter's child now? Would you enjoy having your son/daughter come home with and STD--HIV/AIDS maybe? Would you care to become a foster parent to one of the hundreds of thousands of children that have parents unable to care for them because they were just children themselves when they became 'parents'. ..... Didn't think so.

You comment is irrelevant, sexual behaviour has no business in school activities or classrooms. Teachers have no business trying to teach morality, it is a lose lose situation. I do not want my children's schools teaching anything but reading,writing and arithmetic and science and I am somewhat against science except in the case of human anatomy, if they are going to teach evolution then they must also teach creationism as neither case at this time can be absolute . I do not want my children's schools handing out any form of birth control period.

Jerry, I was in no way rude, so please do not call my comment irrelevant. I simply have a differing opinion than yours. As I stated in my previous comment, a large percentage or parents fail to actually parent, thus the school system has had to pick up the slack. If you are this outraged by my comment, and the fact that schools are doing something, then you obviously do not fall into this category. You have many options about how to educate your child- home school, private school, charter school, public school, alternative school, etc. If you don't like how one does it, try something else. If you don't like how YOUR child's school does something, then move them. Don't judge one school, based on your parenting skill and abilities.

Curly-- no, I don't want to be caring for my 15yo's child-- which is why my kids are not allowed to put themselves into those situations. Yes, as has been said, kids can still find ways. And if they do, they'd better prepare themselves for the consequences. My job is to protect them, however. It's not yours. As a teacher, yours is to "educate" them scholastically.

As I opined above, because some parents have dropped the ball, schools and the government have picked it up and run with it. You know, hold on a second-- I haven't dropped the ball. So back off. and it isn't so easy to "move them," if you don't like what's going on in a public school. Better yet, get involved and fight for change.

Personally, I'm very involved in my high school-- first name basis with our principal-- when they try to overstep bounds, I step right in. Hold it right there, Teach-- my kid, not yours. Back off.

We recently had a group of Gideon's visit our high school, and hand out Bibles in front to all the students passing by. They made sure they were staying on public sidewalks, so what they did was legal. I think it's way out of line....and I'm a Christian. Nobody should presume to try and push their moral or religious position on somebody else's kids....nobody.

So, now they are not going to hand out condoms.

Looking forward to paying for the children who are conceived that night and the medication for the std's that are transmitted.

Oh wait-if they don't hand out condoms, none of these kids will have sex, right?

Around the age of 18 hormones are at their height. Should we make kids come back to school when they are 29 to learn about sex? Stupidity abounds.

BTW: No creature has been found on this planet that needs to be taught how to procreate. It's a natural thing. Live with it -- stop fighting the obvious,.

According to the article, students at ths school were at high risk-meaning that maybe waiting until marriage for sex was lower on the priority list than keeping them out of jail, off drugs and-oh yeah-not having kds.

Our government should provide condoms FREE to anyone at any time, with dispensers in all public restrooms. This would be much less expensive than treating STD's and unwanted pregnancies, and there would be no need to provide teenagers condoms at the prom - they could get them anytime they needed them.

Were my parents to comment on this story, they would be saying similar things to the posts above about parents teaching their kids right from wrong. They would blame parents in part for not teaching their kids morals and take pride in knowing that they raised a duaughter who knew to wait until she was married before having sex.

At 35, I have not told thm that I ha sex in high school and in every serious relationship following. Thankfully, I went to public school where, much to my parents' distain, they not only taught us about condoms, but provided them. Should I have usd a condom anyway-of course. Would I have? The sad answer is "probably not."

My level of responsibility at age 17 was different than now. I would have been too embarrassed to buy them myself, and would have been far too afraid of someone seeing me and telling my parents. Does this mean I should not have been having sex to begin with? Of course. But I did. And so, sadly, are many kids today.

Everyone is correct when they say that a school should not dictate morality. It should provide education and make sure students know how to be safe when it comes to all things-not talking to strangers, looking both ways before crossing the street, stop, drop and roll, nutrition and disease prevention-inculding std's.

Good to know, contrary to what seemed to be depicted in this thread, I'm not the only voice of opposition. Whew! I'm sure the schools do provide information on STDs, uchusky-- they're just not giving the kids a blank check to have sex. Good news.

Marla

First, "condoms promote sex" is like saying a prenuptial agreement promotes divorce... or car insurance promotes accidents. Things that are meant to "protect" in case something happens do not cause the event to happen.

If your children, or any child, has sex merely because a condom was handed to them, then they are an extremely WEAK and pathetic person. They still have the choice to have, or not to have sex. Furthermore, if you are as "great" a parent as you brag about, then handing your child a condom would have no affect on them, as they are supposedly raised to be strong and make the "right decision". The mere fact that you express concern is a clear indication that you are worried your children are too weak to make the right decision... and thus you are not the holier-than-thou parent you claim to be. A parent who DID raise their children the "right way" would not be concerned about someone handing them a condom, as they would be confident that the child would make the right decision regardless.

Second, you are living in a delusional fantasy world if you think abstinence works. You speak of "old fashioned" as if things were different "back then"... yet all studies indicate that premarital sex was just as rampant as it is today. The only difference is that people did not talk about it. The Catholic Church has been promoting abstinence for over a thousand years... how has that worked out?

That is not to say you can not teach it in your own house. You can do whatever you want with the offspring your copulation produces. If you want to live in a fantasy world where abstinence occurs, go for it. But reality dictates that society does not live in this same fantasy. REALITY shows that sex does happen. REALITY shows that there are over 400,000 unwanted children in foster care. REALITY shows that there is a problem with teen pregnancy that needs to be addressed.

Religious people have tried to address this problem by preaching abstinence for over a THOUSAND YEARS... they have FAILED. You, and people like you, have had a THOUSAND YEARS to prove that your fantasy land idea will work. You have failed. Now it is time to take more direct measures, in an attempt to fix the problem. Parents have FAILED... the proof is all around you. Leaving it "up to the parents" has FAILED.

How many more years of FAILURE must we go through, before you realize that YOUR WAY is not working for society as a whole?

YOU can still teach your kids abstinence... in fact, I hope you do. As a male I can tell you that girls from households like yours are ALWAYS the easiest. Go for it. Knock yourself out. But society has a problem of unwanted pregnancies that your fantasy land solution is not fixing. So while you preach your fantasy, society is taking action to fix the problem.

And if your children REALLY were following what you teach, and your "rules"... you would not be concerned about them having sex because someone hands them a rubber. If anything, you would not care because your children would refuse the condom. Your concern shows the truth about your so-called "good girls".

What happened to personal responsibility and consequences for actions? This just promotes irresponsibility and the notion that the government will step up to save you from your own actions when you chose to do things that have dire consequences.

I'm waiting for the government to save me from my fall after I jump off a cliff. It won't happen, that's why I don't do that. That principle should be forged into young peoples' minds from day one. YOU are responsible for yourself, NOT the government, and if you chose to 'jump off the cliff', be prepared for the consequences and the government is not going to be your 'safety net'. It is beyond the scope of our government to regulate, babysit and rescue anyone who chooses to do things that have dire consequences.

The people who think that our society as a whole is responsible for all its members actions even if they are deliberately chosen negative actions, have chosen an unsustainable philosophy. Personal responsibility is the better safety net, because correct social order starts with the choices of the individual, not the government. Governmental 'safety nets' are reactive, and personal restrictions on your own actions are proactive.

Marla please answer a question for me.

If my condom breaks, is that an act of god or why I doing her too hard?

Phil-- agreed. If a parent wants to give children carte blanche-- which, many do, with condoms-- their place. I have no problem with how other parents wish to raise their children. It is not my place to tell any other parent how to parent their child-- and I don't.

My problem is with the government stepping in. And again, Indie-- I'm talking about what's appropriate for a high school to be handing out to high school children-- most of them minors.

This isn't about my children nor how I'm raising them. You hate religion? I don't care. Not my problem. I'll continue fighting any government intrusion into a parent's right to oversee the moral education of their children. Don't like it? I don't care.

Phil

This just promotes irresponsibility and the notion that the government will step up to save you from your own actions when you chose to do things that have dire consequences.

PAYING for unwanted children is the government stepping in to save you from your own actions. Providing condoms is preventative, to PREVENT the government from stepping in and paying for the overwhelming number of unwanted children being born.

I'm waiting for the government to save me from my fall after I jump off a cliff.

See that sign that says "cliff edge"? See the rope, fence, railing or whatever else they put there? THAT is the government using PREVENTATIVE tactics to stop you from falling. THAT is the condom. It is there to PREVENT the unintended consequence of your actions... whether that be falling or crapping out a kid.

If you choose to ignore the preventative tactic... ignore the railing and jump off the cliff, or ignore the condom... you suffer the consequence. The only difference is jumping off a cliff does not cost us anything, but crapping out a kid is another check to foster care.

Personal responsibility is the better safety net, because correct social order starts with the choices of the individual, not the government.

So you support cutting ALL funding to unwanted children, including foster care, food stamps, welfare, adoptions, etc? Any and all funding that goes towards unwanted children should be cut... according to you. Because THAT is just the government stepping in instead of people taking responsibility for their children.

Keep in mind, there are over 400,000 children in foster care. You ready to throw them ALL into the street and let them starve?

There is nothing sexier than watching a woman breast feed.

They do not peticularily care for my staring but if they are going to do it in public, who am i to object?

IndieParty

Good old consequences that the individual must pay for is the best deterrent, we already know that condoning irresponsible behavior 'because it is going to happen anway' has not proven itself to be effective.

Remember your parents and 'tough love'? That is what people need to face. It will wake people up from the coma of governmental support that they have enjoyed for decades, which has the unintended consequence of enabling their irresponsibility.

Many of the places I go, do not have 'cliff edge' or barriers of any kind, so much for your theory there, it doesn't wash! Last year I went to Dinosaur National Park in Utah and there were numerous canyon cliffs at least 1000 feet deep, straight down, no bouncing off the rocks, splat on the bottom. No safety net there, it was all me, I was the safety net. This is the way people should conduct themselves, unplanned children should be prevented by the person engaging in sex is knowing they are standing at the edge of that sheer cliff with no safety net whatsoever, and they should have the sense to not jump off. We should not be responsible for other people's actions, THEY should be held accountable.

The school in question operates a day care center for their students which started breeding since the age of 14.

If the *regular* schools were not controlled by parents who have pipedreams, the condoms would be available at the real schools and then MAYBE these girls who end up at the *second chance to graduate* school wouldn't get knocked up and be a single parent by the age of 16 and need this alternative school with its own day care center in the first place.

Like Donna Martin said......If you had a swimming pool in your backyard, you can tell you child to stay out of it. You can build a fence around it and lock the gate to keep your child out of the pool. But if there was any chance at all that your child might end up in that water....wouldn't you want them to know how to swim?

People who think handing out free condoms just encourages kids to run off and get sexed are people living in a place called "denial".

Marla

I'm talking about what's appropriate for a high school to be handing out to high school children-- most of them minors.

Again, what ANYONE hands your children should be no concern of yours if you really did raise them correctly. If you raised strong children, they can say no. If you raised weak children, they will be easily led.

You concern indicates that your children are weak and thus you are worried about what will happen if someone hands them a condom.

This isn't about my children nor how I'm raising them.

Then why do you care? Earlier you stated...

You don't have to agree with how I raise my kids. I don't have to agree with how you raise yours.

Obviously you DO have to agree with how other people raise their children, as you are adamant about telling parents what they need to do. Who are YOU to tell someone else how to raise their child?

Then you said...

Parents need to take back this responsibility, and tell the school to stick to academics.

How is this not academics? Sex is part of biology, it is how we all came to be. It is part of the natural life cycle.

Just because YOU have a hang-up regarding sex, and YOU have twisted it into a moral issue in YOUR mind, does not change the fact that it is a scientific part of life. It is literally the result of hormone excretion, caused by external stimuli, leading to the placement of reproductive compounds into the biologically correct cavity. This is basic science... biology, in the purest form. THAT falls under the category of academia.

It can also be categorized in sociological studies, health studies, and psychology (particularly human behavior)... all firmly planted in academia.

Because the "morals" you have created in your own mind categorize it as something else, does not change the blatant fact that all information and education regarding sex IS part of various academic schools.

If your mind suddenly decided that photosynthesis was "immoral", would you demand it be removed from academia because YOU have a hang-up about it?

You see, YOUR psychological issues regarding sex does not change the FACT that it is biological in nature and part of scientific, human development.

Phil-- and more to my point, it's MY responsibility to keep my children away from the edge....not the governments. If I let my kids get to the edge, it's my fault. If they fall off, it's my fault. Personally, I don't need a fence and a sign. I know the dangers and instill my own fences and barriers. Parental responsibility, and teaching kids consequences and utilities personal responsibility -- what a concept.

Indie-- because "society" has changed what's immoral, people expect Christians to. Sorry. Not happening. Your photosynthesis argument is silly.

A school handing out condoms DOES step on the toes of parents who believe in abstinence-- would it be okay for the school to hand out bibles? Of course not. And I wouldn't support it. The parents are responsible for the moral religious upbringing of their kids-- period. Yes, kids have sex. They get pregnant. Parents could keep a better eye on their kids. They could hand out condoms, if they want-- or give Junior an allowance and let him buy them himself-- they're in every Wal-Mart.

But have the school hand them out? Not their job. I'm not telling any parent what to do. I'm telling the schools and the government to back the heck off and stop trying to do our jobs.

Indiparty seems to merely be a government stooge who thinks society is responsible for everyone elses' actions. Ya, make the government responsible for everything now! Gotta have more regulations and control over everyones' lives! People are too stupid to use their own minds and government is smarter than everyone! Wheee!

Marla as a certified child care professional all I can say about how you parent from what I read of your posts is wow.... I know if I was your kid I would absolutely hate you as my parent and I would hate living in that house not having any freedom.... You're damn skippy I would rebel against you at every turn and you're damn skippy I would've moved out by 17.

I'm sorry but to me what you do to your kids is no better than prison. By age 14 I was able to go anywhere within reason unchaperoned as long as my parents knew where I was going. By age 16 I was pretty much allowed to handle myself with minimal parenting needed. When I turned 17 is when I lost my virginity and up until while I may have had crushes on certain females but never had the courage to talk to them beyond friendship.

I would shoot myself before I was that strict on my kids when and if I ever have any. Kids need to make mistakes to learn from them in order to mature and be ready to handle the real world where their mother isn't up their behinds 24/7. My fiancee's mother is just like you and was trying that same crap with my fiancee till I rescued her from that prison life and told her mother off. Now me and her mother get along grand and her mother even finally came to the realization and admitted that she was wrong in being so strict on her daughter.

You my dear lady are the type of mother that unless your daughter wanted to we would never be visiting because I wouldn't be taking any risks that you might try and coerce her into coming back to that prison life of no freedom. Knowing mothers like yourself I wouldn't be surprised if you tried forcing your kids to live in your house so that you can control every aspect of their lives.

I'm sorry to say but if you don't let your kids live their life properly will never be ready for the real world... they'll always expect mother to be there to solve their problems. Sex is part of life... get over it unless you're planning on putting a chastity belt on each of your kids and throwing away the keys. Sex is how you came to be, sex is how they came to be and sex is how we all came to be.

I'm an old fashioned guy as well but I'll be damned if I'm going to have my girlfriends mother standing over my shoulder watching my every move and listening to our every word while I'm talking to her

Phil

You didn't answer the question. Are you prepared to throw 400,000 children onto the street, with no money, food or help?

Yes or no?

That is what you are proposing, removing government assistance. That includes the children in foster care. So answer the question.

Many of the places I go, do not have 'cliff edge' or barriers of any kind, so much for your theory there

Just because it is not everywhere does not mean the government does not do it. Ever been to the grand canyon? Did you go on the glass extension? Niagara falls and looked over the railing? Yosemite and climbed the rope to half-dome?

The government puts preventative measures in high-traffic areas. I suppose you want to remove stop lights and speed limits on roads... because that is just the government stepping in when you should be personally responsible, right? What about the FCC telling you that you can't hear the word F*** on TV? Why don't you be personally responsible and change the channel? What about sidewalks? Why do we need the government to step in and tell us where to walk? We should be personally responsible for where we walk.

Hell, you can use YOUR logic for EVERY THING the government does... and completely get rid of all government. Why do we need police or the military? Just be personally responsible and protect yourself. Why do we need the fire department? Just be personally responsible and don't let your house catch on fire, or put it out yourself.

Marta... PLEASE pick up your keyboard, and chuck it out the window, you'll be doing us all a big favor. I really didn't even KNOW they had computers that deep in the Bible Belt, I figured you just burned them with the science books. Much less that you were allowed to have kids. My goodness, have your kids ever asked why they're their own cousins? Must be pretty hard telling them about that Special Family Reunion...

Ok, now that I've gotten all of that out of my system... condoms do not lead people to having sex. It just makes it a heck of a lot safer. I highly doubt her kids don't masturbate, look at porn, or are even virgins, and if they are... well, I'm feel sorry for them, as they'll either be terrified of their body, or be so pent up they might end up taking the Catholic Priest route.

I know I know! I said I was done! But... ugh. It's just so hard not to. Besides, it's better than the Bible, which promotes Death, Violence, Intolerance, Hatred, Bigotry, and Having your rear prodded with a fork by a big, burly, muscular red man with a cartoony mustache that would look better on Snidely Whiplash.

Yeah, I can tell you're an old-fashioned guy-- ha. No way in hell I'm giving my kids that freedom at 14. Quite frankly, I think your parents were fools. My kids are free to go to a friend's house, if I know the parent-- and can have anyone over they wish. They go to movies in groups, football games in groups-- usually with a sibling in the group, to keep a watchful eye on each other. Believe it or not, there actually are other parents who share our values-- other families embrace and share our protective ways, so they have no qualms sending their kids to our home....and vice versa.

I'll also be damned if any boyfriend of my daughter's tried to tell me anything regarding how I raise my kids. Your behind would have been out that door faster than you can say premarital sex, buddy. Disagree with how I'm raising 'em? Don't raise your own that way.

Beyond that, your opinion and "credentials" are meaningless to me.

Once again, I have to laugh at the charge of "hatred" by anyone who tries to follow scripture. I'm reading rather hateful messages to me about my family-- but, Christians are the hatemongers. Right.

Marla

But have the school hand them out? Not their job. I'm not telling any parent what to do. I'm telling the schools and the government to back the heck off and stop trying to do our jobs.

It is because WE PAY for the consequences.

A teenager gets pregnant, kid ends up in foster care, and WE PAY for the damn thing.

THAT is the point. You parents are FAILING at your jobs, and WE ARE PAYING FOR IT.

As long as we have to PAY for these unwanted kids, we get to try and stop them from flooding in.

You want the schools to stop, then stop making us PAY for all the unwanted kids. Your plan will make us pay more.

I don't care what your morals are, but when YOUR morals result in ME PAYING for some unwanted child, then I do care. YOUR "abstinence only" morals are costing me money... and I'm tired of paying for YOUR FAILED idea.

See, what you and Phil are not smart enough to understand is I don't like government spending... but I realize that YOUR ideas are costing us more. Your abstinence does not work, and we have to pay for the consequences. So I would rather give everyone condoms because that is cheaper than paying for more unwanted kids.

Marla,

I am atheist so I will try to be objective, no hatred intended because I have none towards you.

One day, the bubble that you live in will burst and on that day I wish you all the best that the world has to offer. Maybe it will be your family, maybe your friends, maybe your faith that pulls you through. Not everyone is as fortunate as you and they have to live by their wits. When that day comes, and it will, I wish you all the best.

No, I'm not failing at my job. And I won't let anyone step into my shoes-- I'm not costing you a dime. I will not endorse the government ever usurping parental rights, because it's then the "slippery slope." Once I allow them to tell me "this," then they have the "right" to tell me "that." No. Stay out of my family.

I don't suppose it ever entered your wittle head that perhaps because government has these safety nets that you abhor paying for, that's exactly why people can continue having all these kids-- maybe government should stop paying for it. Maybe we should actually-- gasp-- have people pay for their own kids. Parents-- your kid has a kid while still in high school-- YOU pay for it, because the government won't.

Again-- not my problem-- what's my problem is anyone stepping on parental rights-- no matter what.

Marla

I'm not costing you a dime.

Not until one of your children craps out a kid, and gets rid of it. THEN it costs me a dime.

And if YOU don't, there are thousands of other people who will.

because it's then the "slippery slope." Once I allow them to tell me "this," then they have the "right" to tell me "that." No. Stay out of my family.

Jesus Christ... really? The "slippery slope" bull-s*** argument? That's the best you can come up with.

Let me guess, you are also a Republican who is against gay marriage. "Stay out of my family" huh? Ya, until it is something you are against... then are you all in favor of the government in family matters.

I don't suppose it ever entered your wittle head that perhaps because government has these safety nets that you abhor paying for, that's exactly why people can continue having all these kids

No... because people have been having kids for ALL TIME. People have kids because of sex, because sex feels good... not because the government will pay for them.

What, you think no one had any children until the government started paying for them? Go to school and educate yourself. People have been having kids they can't afford for centuries.

maybe government should stop paying for it. Maybe we should actually-- gasp-- have people pay for their own kids

You think that will stop people? Have you ever been to another country? Have you ever traveled outside your little bible-belt community?

You see those kids in third world countries that are starving on the street? See those kids who die of starvation? Guess what, genius... the government does not pay for them. Did that stop the parent from having them? Did the parent step up and pay for their own kid?

Show me one god damn country where people stopped having children they could not afford, because the government won't support them. Just one country, in all our history. I dare you.

You can't do it, because it doesn't exist.

People have kids whether the government pays for them or not. THAT IS REALITY. So we either continue to pay for YOUR mistakes, or we stop the kids from flooding in.

Jesus Christ, woman... open a book that is not the bible for once in your god damn life. Educate yourself.

Marla sounds like my parents and how they tried to raise me...it was the most miserable 18 years of indentured servitude. Forcing madates and limiting options for your children does them a great disservice. If your children were raised with decent morals and beliefs and were raised to be responsible, they will act accordingly and don't need to be chaparoned and threatened even at the age of 17. My parents never let me leave the house and when I did, their constant serveilance and checking in and then their bitching afterwards should some teenage habit seem unsavory in their eyes, made the going out not worth it at all. I was an Honor student in High School and top of my class through my own drive and desires because it was what I wanted, but was still given the expectation to only be a mother and a wife. They denied me dating my first boyfriend (my only and still current after three years) even in college and you know what, on top of their authoritarianism, I ended the relationship with my parents. I pay my way through college getting my degree in biology; I have sex all the time (protected! and with my long term boyfriend) and have never once regretted severing ties with them.

They thought I was content at home too. You may have a great relationship with your kids that makes your authoriarianism okay with them, but when you have no trust in your children it means you have no trust in the way that you raised them. Good parents produce good kids who use their brain and judiciousness every single day. They avoid risky situations and only partake in what they are comfortable with. I think you are a little bit too excessive. You can be moral and live a good life with out being dictatorial.

Your parenting just touches a nerve with me and since you voice your opinion so loudly I figured it would do you good to hear from a responsible young woman about as old as your oldest, who hated parenting like yours. Discourse right?

About the condoms. It is fanatastic what this school is doing. Abstinence is historically ineffective. You can say don't do something, but should that something happen, shouldn't a teen know how to behave in that situation? I didn't intend to have sex the first time I did and even at 18 and in college hormones got to me. I was responsible about sex of course. But if I, as a young woman with a 2000 tuition bill coming out of her own pocket every ten weeks, honors courses, and a hard major (responsiblilty) was taken by my hormones can you imagine the kids at prom who are simply out to party? Ya, give them some condoms. Give everyone condoms!

Indie-- you are a wonderful writer. I really enjoy your posts. Yes, I tend to vote Republican-- although they're full of scounderels, too-- mostly the lesser of two evils. I'll probably hold my nose and vote Romney, considering him a slightly less hideous choice than Obama.

Yes, I am opposed to the definition of marriage being altered because some in society wants it to change.

I don't care who you sleep with-- again, not my problem. I'd just prefer it not to be called marriage, as I believe marriage is obviously, undeniably, something designed for one man and one woman--

And yes, I put the "slippery slope" in quotations as bait for you to pounce. The concept of it is undeniable. Give the government an inch, they'll take a mile. I'm responsible for my little corner of the world-- my family-- and teaching them personal responsibility. We're not a drain on society-- I can't help if others are.

Marla, one word Mississippi. Actually more than one Mississippi and teen pregnancy. I applaud the school for doing this. They are doing this with parental permission. They are not forcing kids to take the condoms. How about this.. why don't the parents discuss abstinence with their kids if they don't want them to have sex. Or be honest. This is not the school usurping power, how about the damn parents doing their job in the first place and then condom companies wouldn't have to do it for them via the schools. But then again, you must be a graduate of the Bristol Palin Abstinence Program.

Cherish-- I feel sorry for your parents. Rebellious children are a dagger in the heart, I'm sure. I can't wait for you to have kids-- you know what they say...what goes around, comes around?

Good luck.

We're not a drain on society-- I can't help if others are.

But we can take measures to reduce the amount at which others are... and THAT is what these condoms do. They don't tell you or your family anything, they help reduce the drains on society.

Again, if you raised your children the "right way", they will be strong enough to ignore the condoms and not need them. If you raised your children to be weak, then you have reason to be concerned about these condoms.

If what goes around comes around then I shouldn't have a problem with my children because I never gave my parents a problem and remained the ever obedient child until that obedience threatened my future happiness as a professional and as an adult. Contrary to my parents ridiculous expectations that I sit at home and take care of them and their chilren, grooming me for motherhood, I went and got an education. If my child should ever be a smidgen as driven and responsible as I am then I will be content.

Don't worry, I feel sorry for my parents as well. It must suck to be so trapped. Oh well =)

Indie-- again, if parents want to give their kids condoms, no harm, no foul. Schools shouldn't-- not their place-- in my opinion, as stated ad nauseum. :)

Cherish-- I've thought of your post-- the glee with which you declare your rebellion, and how much sex you're having reeks of, "Me think she doth protest too much."

In your heart, if you were raised with the values of your parents, your rebellion is serious. I'm raising my daughters, ultimately, to be wives and mothers-- until then, one is an athlete, one is a musician. When they marry, what they choose is up to them. I can't force them to be a stay-at-home mom-- I can only hope that the pattern I've set, and the example I've given is attractive. They'll choose what they want. Until then, I teach what I believe is scriptural.

Your parents must be heartbroken-- I can only pray for their sake, and yours, that you end your rebellion soon and return to their authority.

Indie

It is because WE PAY for the consequences.

A teenager gets pregnant, kid ends up in foster care, and WE PAY for the damn thing.

THAT is the point. You parents are FAILING at your jobs, and WE ARE PAYING FOR IT.

No your assumption is completely false, not every child born to teens ends up in foster care, many end up being taken in by family members. So your endless blathering that all of them are OUR responsibility is wrong!

No I don't condone EXISTING children to be thrown out on the street, sorry, that is your ASSumption as well! Future generations need to be taught about the 'cliffs' in our lives, and that society is NOT responsible for their screwups!

No, I do not think there should be NO government, that is another ASSumption on your part, once again! Government is necessary, but it is not necessary to be so intrusive in our lives that it tells us how to eat, breath, crap and decide our entire lives destination for us just because some well intentioned liberal thought that people are too stupid to decide the direction of their own lives.

Apparently, the slight sarcasm in the tons of sex I have didn't quite translate. I don't think that my decision to end a bad relationship with my parents is an act of rebellion at all. Rather it was a well informed decision through a life time of experience that told me there were bigger and better things out there for me and in order to reach those, certain people need not come along for the ride. I love that you are training your children to have good morals and values. Not enough of the youth have that and responsibility and thoughtfulness is not taught enough. I have no problem with that but rather the mode of delivery. I also have an issue with what you believe is a woman's ultimate goal in life, but then again you have already admitted to sexism. Motherhood is beautiful but a woman has more capability than that. She can contribute to her society as something bigger and still have that intimate relationship as wife and mother. But to each their own.

I only thought that you needed to hear the major downside of your authoritarianism, which in my parents case was absolute failure. My morals and values are my own and my being a good citizen and contributing to my society was never granted to me by my parents authority. At nearly 21, they no longer have authority. Eventually things will work out but it will not be as child-parent, but perhaps as mutual adults. I have expressed my concern and you have expressed your. Thank you. And good luck to you too! You still have a few minors left in your house.

Teachers = LIBERAL DEMOCRATS & UNIONS - Need I say any more ???

Cherish-- thank you, as well. I hope things work out.

I was a 'good girl', and so was my sister - straight A's, honor society, ivy league schools, now both doctors. I had parents who were EXTREMELY strict. They called to check on me if I went over to a friend's house, even drove around town looking for my car when I was out with friends to make sure I was where I said I'd be (no, I never gave them reason to doubt me). My Mom was so hung up on sex that when I was engaged and my fiance and I were traveling to my sister's wedding, she didn't want to let him stay at their house. I told her I would stay at a hotel with him instead, and that REALLY threw her into a tizzy, so she let him stay at the house after all (we were flying in from another state, and had nowhere to stay but a hotel or their house). Marla reminds me a lot of my mom. My sister and I privately called her the 'momster', and we couldn't wait to move out. We didn't 'narc' on each other, we covered for each other. If my Mom had ANY idea of the stuff my sister and I did while living at home, she would die.

Personally, my parenting philosophy is to guide my children so that they will make good choices on their own. If I have to follow them around and lock them in the house, they aren't actually making these choices themselves, so they are not internalized values.

Phil

No your assumption is completely false, not every child born to teens ends up in foster care, many end up being taken in by family members. So your endless blathering that all of them are OUR responsibility is wrong!

If even ONE ends up in foster care, that is more expensive for us than condoms. So my point still stands true.

You obviously love PAYING for everyone elses mistakes... how noble. I do not share that sense of charity. I would much rather give condoms to everyone, than pay for the mistake of others.

Future generations need to be taught about the 'cliffs' in our lives, and that society is NOT responsible for their screwups!

Religious institutions have been "teaching" that for over a thousand years... how has that worked out?

I suppose you are arrogant enough to believe that YOU can "teach" the youth better than the most influential religious organization on the planet.

Are you a betting man? I've got $10,000 (in honor of Romney) here that says you will FAIL at teaching society to be more responsible with their child bearing. This money says the abstinence-only, personal-responsibility "teachings" of you and your ilk will NOT change society. People will STILL have unwanted children as teenagers and adults.

So come on, big man. Put your money where your mouth is. Let's do this. You're not a coward, are you?

Government is necessary, but it is not necessary to be so intrusive in our lives that it tells us how to eat, breath, crap and decide our entire lives destination for us just because some well intentioned liberal thought that people are too stupid to decide the direction of their own lives.

Really? The government is telling you how to "breath"? What exactly have they told you about breathing? And they also tell you how to "crap"? Mind passing over those instructions?

Finally, my personal favorite... "decide our entire lives destination for us just because some well intentioned liberal thought that people are too stupid to decide the direction of their own lives". Well, it's obvious the government has not told you anything about proper grammar... so at least you still have THAT.

Marla

again, if parents want to give their kids condoms, no harm, no foul. Schools shouldn't-- not their place-- in my opinion, as stated ad nauseum. :)

Again, parents have FAILED-- as stated ad nauseum.

So we have two options: (1) Continue to leave it up to the failures we call parents, and continue to pay for their mistakes. (2) Step in and use preventative tactics to reduce what we eventually pay for.

If we did not end up paying for many of these unwanted kids, then I would agree to leave it up to the utter failures that continue to breed. But we DO pay for them. So I refuse to live in some fantasy world where I believe people will magically become responsible for everything they do... all because a couple holier-than-thou, back-woods, self righteous, delusional, NASCAR loving "bible thumpers" told them to.

I live in reality, and with that comes accepting the hard truth of our society... however unpleasant that may be.

Sorry-- we'll never agree that a school should step into parental roles. You want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because some parents suck, you support usurping parental rights. No. Personally, I don't suck. I'm parenting my kids. I don't want government intrusion.

And you're right, people will never become responsible for what they do...as long as there are enablers along the way.

And personally, I hate NASCAR, and live in Jersey-- no woods, although I do have trees. And for the record-- the term "bible thumpers" is just stupid-- I've never thumped it a day in my life. Who made up that term? It's just stupid.

I wonder how high and mighty Marla will be if some girl that went to this prom ended up pregnant as a result. Teens have been getting pregnant forever. It used to be that girls were sent away to "live with relatives" and such, decades ago. Then the child was STOLEN from the teenage girl, in the form of being brainwashed, and adopted out. It seems to me, Marla, Patriot, that you feel it is better to keep your heads under the sand, then to face reality. Did you ever think that maybe underage girls who get abortions, do it out of fear from their parents? I wonder how many of those abortions were a result of some sort of sexual abuse by an older family member, or family friend. Since, you know SEXUAL ABUSE is so prevalent.

Stop pretending you know what is best for everyone. It is evident that you only think in black and white. Thinking in those terms is what leads to fascism. Stop thinking that the "liberal" agenda is so evil, and start thinking that real life happens, and it should be dealt with in real ways.

Of course it should be dealt with in real ways-- by real parents, Stephanie. You know what, my daughter is going to her prom-- and coming home afterwards-- there is no after party, no shore weekend-- this is a celebration of the end of her senior year, so she's going with a male friend. His parents and we, her parents, are both very involved-- they'll go to the party, and come home. Period. Just maybe if more parents would put other restrictions and precautions on their kids, they wouldn't end up pregnant after the prom....gee, ya think?

If they do-- it's not my problem. I'm not responsible for other parents falling asleep at the wheel, Steph. And because I actually AM awake, and AM responsible for my kids, I'd just as soon the rest of society back the hell off and stop infringing on parental rights. We don't all suck.

And when did this turn into a discussion of abortion-- total 'nother ball park. Not interested.

I don't know what's best for everyone. It's not my place to presume to know. I don't care what's best for everyone. I just wish everyone else would stop trying to tell me what's best for me and mine. When the government backs off and schools and the government stop stepping on parental toes, I'll shut up and sit down. Until then-- I'm here.

Agree w/you Tim.

I agree. And I think the school should also rent a motel, so the kids don't throw their backs out using those condoms in the back seat of their cars.

Denver-do you not see that the difference between giving condoms and renting a hotel is that the condoms are there to prevent them from getting a potentially deadly disease and/or pregnant?

Condoms don't make t any more likely that teens will have sex. They make it more likely that teens will have safe sex.

Why can't they buy them themselves? They should-but don't. Embarrassment, fear of parents finding out...I agree that these are not good reasons for them to not be responsible on their own, but I would rather them be safe than me make a point.

uchusky99,

Of course there is a difference. The entire rationale behind handing out condoms is that teenagers are going to have sex. The difference between the condom and the motel room is that the condoms help prevent unwanted pregnancies and motel rooms help prevent unwanted physical injuries. (That and the comparative costs.) All I did was carry the rationale to its ridiculous but logical conclusion. The rationale, however, is the same.

denver bill 2

I agree. And I think the school should also rent a motel, so the kids don't throw their backs out using those condoms in the back seat of their cars.

Doggone, in the good old days we had cars that had big back seats and we didn't need a motel.

Ain't safe in these new cars anymore, air bags and all.

The difference between the condom and the motel room is that the condoms help prevent unwanted pregnancies and motel rooms help prevent unwanted physical injuries. (That and the comparative costs.) All I did was carry the rationale to its ridiculous but logical conclusion. The rationale, however, is the same.

You're being facetious. An unwanted pregnancy from not using contraception is a real risk. A physical injury from having sex is various places isn't a real risk. Of course, I'm open to suggestion. Just cite a few research studies showing that sex can lead to life-altering physical injuries and that it affects millions.

The only thing that matters are real risks and the consequences of those risks when things go wrong. To juxtapose an imaginary issue (physical injury) with a real issue (unintended pregnancy) is to miss the point entirely. If you are going to make an argument and you want to be taken seriously, talk about real issues.

Noah R,

You're being facetious.

Thank you for noticing. I thought it was apparent.

If you are going to make an argument and you want to be taken seriously, talk about real issues.

I was hoping nobody would be dumb enough to take me seriously. Alas, I was doomed to disappointment.

OMG, something that will actually work to stop teen pregnancy.

I agree w/you randy, but Im sure the bible thumpbers are going to be up in arms about it.

Certain religious organizations would be happy if things continue the way that they are by altering human social behavior which allows for more kids to be born to become members of their organization while claiming that it's what God wants, and it's meant to be.

Sure sex is a natural. We have the intelligence of making the decision of when the right time is to engage in the act. That is why we are supposedly the most intelligent being on the planet. Unfortunately, we make wrong decisions and then expect others to clean up after our act of stupidity. God put us on the earth to decide between good and evil. It's all your decision. Just don't expect things to go away or be taken care of if you don't take time to consider the consequences

The only thing that bothers me about a school handing out condoms isn't that "kids shouldn't be having sex at that age" but the fact that it just spent taxpayer money on purchasing 500 condoms for a school that has 130 students. So, essentially, people have now subsidized other people's kids having sex. Most of these kids are old enough to have a part-time job and should be able to afford the condoms themselves.

Actually, they got the condoms free from the manufacturer.

Yeah, I redact my previous statement. I missed the part about the condom manufacturer supplying them. I don't have a problem with the idea as long as tax money isn't being used for it.

did you even read the article or what? It clearly says that the condoms were donated. Try reading it before making ignorant comments.

Did you even read my above statement? Try reading it before making ignorant comments. I'm sure you've never made a mistake and skipped a sentence while reading something in your life, Ms. Perfect.

To be a bit fair to jennifer here -- look at the time stamps. Your second comment was probably NOT posted in time for her to read it before posting HERS.

"kids shouldn't be having sex at that age"

alot of those "kids" are 18 and not kids at all. also,

"Try reading it before making ignorant comments."

you mean the thing that you yourself didn't do? if you want consideration try showing showing some for others. your name doesn't exactly inspire civility in the first place.

I agree w/you randy, but Im sure the bible thumpbers are going to be up in arms about it.

Which is ironic as the Bible details how we all came out of not one, but two giant bouts of incest.

Judging from the time Jennifer Sloan posted her response from the respone where you were covering your @ss(1 minute), she probably didn't see you shamefully admiting that you skipped over an important aspect of the article.

LOL...

@Ruken

Damn good point buddy! Lol

Personally I think this is very unfair to the goofy guys who have no chance at getting laid..........the school needs to provide them with Hookers to make it fair.

The ones that keep saying the "kids are too young" Remember this is prom. Most of these kids are headed toward 18 (legally adults).

A lot of you adults here are saying teenagers are "gonna have sex anyway, might as well make it safe." That's simply not true. As a 16 year old guy, I won't have sex without protection. Giving me condoms would enable me to. I have many friends that don't have sex without protection.

Most parents teach their kids not to have sex in highschool/before marriage. Why would you simultaneously teach that then remove the consequences? Not many teens are gonna abstain from sex cause their parents said so; a LOT however, will abstain to avoid a child or STD.

It's simply not true that teenagers are gonna have sex "anyway." I personally feel that if me or other teenagers want to mess around, the punishment/result (STD/child) fits the crime. Otherwise don't raise your kids to believe highschool/pre-marital sex is wrong.

Why does this have to be something only "Bible thumpers" are against? THis idea is ludicris.

Instead of teaching your kids to have morals and take responsibility, you teach them its ok to have sex. "I have a condom" isnt being responsible. "Im not having sex because Im a teenager and dont need kids or diseases, and theres NO WAY im ready" IS responsible. Millions of people before them have graduated without having sex and there is NO REASON they cant as well, except that no one gives them any reason not to!!! Instead, we say "sure, have sex, and here's a condom."

Brilliant. Lets teach our kids to be sluts instead of people with morals.

What strikes me about Marla's posts is that she keeps going on about what she believes. As a human being and a parent, I'd like to point out that children often come up with their own points of view. Sometimes they differ wildly from those their parents hold...

Marla, you may find that your attempts to control your children will backfire. Anger and resentment can cause rebellion. You've written so many 'I' statements above but nothing about what your children think and feel and believe. It's not all about you, Marla. Children are human beings with their own opinions and ideas. Don't be surprised when one day they disagree with you on some of these points. Or all of them, perhaps.

It's disturbing to read that your children will narc on one another to you. Have you made them so divisive? What a shame they have zero loyalty to one another. Have you fostered that lack of bonding between them? How dreadful they have such a lack of trust.

My best friend's little sister suffered from this lack of loyalty. She was always threatening to tell their mother in manipulation attempts to get her older sister to do what she wanted. This went on in her all their lives. It poisoned their relationship, and still does now that their mother and father are gone. Is this what you want for your children and the relationship between them as siblings? What are you doing to them, that they are 'narcs' on one another? Do you think this what God wants you to be as their parent? Keeper of their chastity?

That's right!! Kids should have the inner resources to wait to have sex until they are older. Except as they grow they see sex everywhere. From "toddlers in tiaras" to the AXE ads. So from age 5 to 15 they see sex in movies, hear sex in songs, sex in TV programs, ads from sporting events in the beer commercials, the internet web sites, these kids are completely surrounded by sex, and when their sex drive is in overdrive, we try to put the brakes on, oh, wait to have sex. Yeah, right, just say no, like that's really going to work. Like the post before, better condoms passed out than pacifiers!!

lola- you can teach your children to have morals and take responsibility, and still provide them with the tools and information to be safe just in case they decide to have sex at 16, 18, or 25. It's not an either/or.

While many strive to teach teens responsibility and waiting until they really are ready-- and it is fantastic that there are many who will wait even when presented with such things like condoms at prom... however, there IS a population that won't wait and are active and will be active regardless of protection or not. If offered protection, they may be more likely to use it. I spent several years working at a high school that has a rather similar description to the one in the article and we had a 20% pregnancy rate among our female student population. Helping to keep that number down is a good thing... especially on a night like prom night where risky behavior is typically higher.

Most and may be all of you are completely right in being practical in your thinking and your pragmatic approach to this situation. We have to face facts and do our best to limit damages from reckless, thoughtless or, otherwise, uncontrollable situations. This being said, let me add this:

It is truly a sad day on planet earth when what we used to call moral values are apparently no longer existent for the majority of the planet's inhabitants; and self control in most forms are no longer recognized as a value to be cultivated and encouraged in all age groups. This collective attitude may have terrible consequences down the road for all involved, even as we proceed into this new century that appears to be proposing challenge after challenge at every level of our existence as a species. Should not we have a degree of control on our actions when we barely can show much of that on our environmental circumstances? The latter promised to be so dismal, as we go, that we are busy looking for a way out of the planetary mess for those who would be able to afford it.

People who think that nobody used to ever have sex as teenagers 50 or 100 or more years ago crack me up. That is the age when many people used to get married, and teenagers were having sex and having children routinely. In 1950, 10% of teens were already married. In the early part of the 1900's, women's median age at marriage was only 20, meaning nearly half were teenagers. Waiting until marriage is quite different if you are marrying at 18 vs. 28, and if the 17 year olds were mature enough to have sex in 1905, how are our 17 year olds not mature enough?

Agree! I remember being prom age (long memory). I couldn't plan my way out of a sack. At that age, my first thought of a condom would have been after my pants were off. At least by offering condoms up front, the school is acknowledging that teenagers may not be the most detail oriented or good at prior planning.

The question is: If the students have already decided to have sex and are "in the moment", how many of them will decide to stop if they don't have a condom?

Agreed, this is akin to handing out earplugs before a popular band was about to play in a small town.

The school isn't making anyone have sex or go to a rock concert and parents can forbid their children from doing either but since schools generally should educate and promote the safety of their students it's not inappropriate to supply basic safety equipment for either likely activity.

I thought the same thing...it is a little late for that!

So make it LESS the norm and get your children under control for heavens sake. This shouldnt even be an issue. I understand the school is probably trying to prevent pregnancies......but that should NOT be the school prob. Does no one understand this?

All this school is doing, by handing out condoms, is telling its students that its OK for them to have sex and taking the conquences of doing so away. Brilliant....why would they NOT have sex, if they have nothing to fear by doing so?

PARENTS WAKE UP! You are failing at your job if you cannot instill in your children some sense of whats right and wrong. Sex is for GROWN UPS, not kids who think they are

During the Bush presidency, abstinence only sex ed was all that was taught. It didn't work. Something else had to be done. Under President Obama sex ed has been taught in school again and teen pregnancy rates are down. What parents want isn't the thing that works best.

Abstinence only sex ed only works with a small percentage; the failure rate is 85%. That means the success rate is 3 out of 20 kids. How can we continue to spend the multi-millions of dollars the program costs for such low success rates?

. This shouldnt even be an issue. I understand the school is probably trying to prevent pregnancies......but that should NOT be the school prob. Does no one understand this?

Teen pregnancy often causes difficulty for the students involved in the pregnancy, particularly the female. These difficulties include the difficulty in finishing school. Because it adversely affects the teens ability to finish school, it IS a school problem (as well as a family problem, a societal problem, etc., etc.). This is precisely why schools have become involved in issues concerning sex and teenagers.

All this school is doing, by handing out condoms, is telling its students that its OK for them to have sex and taking the conquences of doing so away.

I disagree that handing out condoms is telling anyone that it's ok to have sex. In fact, the handing out of condoms is also presented with a safe sex assembly prior to the prom. A good safe sex program includes that abstinence is the only 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy and STI's. I do hope that the assembly includes this information.

Also, the consequences aren't fully taken away just by using a condom (or even other forms of protection). There is a low risk of failure of the condom, which should be mentioned in the assembly. There are emotional consequences to having sex before one is ready. Etc., etc.

As a parent of an almost 15 year old boy who is going into high school next year, I've had several talks about sex with my boy. He understands the potential consequences - both physical and emotional. I've talked to him about how I want him to wait for sex until he is not only ready to handle any potential consequences, but also until he finds the person he wants to spend his life with. He says he doesn't plan on having sex anytime soon because he has plans for his life and becoming a father before he is ready would make achieving those plans difficult. That said, next school year - I will be keeping condoms in my house that he can have access to no questions asked. It doesn't mean I would be ok with him having sex when he's young - it means I realize that there are some decisions I can't make for him When he decides to have sex is one of these decisions that I can't make for him. I can try to influence him to wait to have sex, and I can provide him with the tools to make the best decision (values that say delay having sex) and to make that decision as safe as possible if he opts to have sex (by providing access to condoms).

BTW Baldman, I've seen it estimated that at the time of the American Revolution (THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION!!!) as many as 1/3 of births, in the colonies, were out of wedlock! I thought, all along that the butt of the public outcry, should not have been Bristol Palin (who was just being a normal teenager), but that Sarah Palin deserved it. You can "shush!" it all you want, and refuse to give them vital information, but kids will discover (and practice) sex, no matter what you do (or, don't do!).

Because people had sex in December and January...

Ha! Hope you don't teach Biology!

You go granny! :)

Way to go MILee!!! I like the way you think.

You have head in the sand syndrome.

Instead of re-inventing the idiot wheel, parrotjoe, just look at the posts and re-posts from Marla above.

Guys have Penises and girls have Vagina's doesn't get any easier than that..... I blame "God"

The school just knows kids have sex at prom all the time so they are atleast trying to make it safe

Yes, don't pass out condoms! LETS BURY OUR HEADS IN THE SAND AND CONTINUE THE TEEN PREGNANCY TREND!!!! YAY!!! Pregnant teenage girls will suffer for the rest of their lives, and they deserve it because they sinned!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Sounds stupid, doesn't it? Every time some self-righteous idiot, who thinks that giving out condoms is a form of permission, instead of looking at it as a form of PREVENTION, writes crap like you ParrotJoe, or that twit Marla up above, those are the words that I really read.

My mom had abstinance only education, at school and home. She believed her friends when they said you can't get pregnant the first time. Nine months later, there I was!

My sisters and I were each taken to the doctor as soon as we started dating, and were put on the pill. Mom also gave us a box of condoms to use in case we needed them before the pill was effective. We were taught that waiting is good- for the right person, the right time. We were also taught to be prepared for when we did make that decision.

Jennifer- keep talking, and take some initiative too. It worked for my mom- all three of us were married, with a good job before having kids, and two of us got a bachelors degree first.

I handled it very similarly with my daughter. Told her that only she can make the choice and know when the time is right. We discussed the consequesnces and responsibilities of having sex. I told her she should not do it because someone pressures her or because everyone else is. Her virginity was a gift that could only be given once, so I encouraged her to think carefully about who she wanted to give it to. I told her to come to me when that time came so I could take her to our doctor to get on the pill and there would be no lecture or judgement on my part. I also made sure she knew where the nearest Planned Parenthood was in case she didn't feel comfortable coming to me. In the end she did come to me, a little sooner than I'd hoped, but I kept my promise. So far, so good. She graduates college next year, and has always displayed a wise and responsible attitude towards sex and dating!

My daughter and I are very close and I've told her that when the kissing starts, sometimes your brains fall out. Your body takes over and things can get out of hand quickly. We have two rules for when she starts dating: 1. If you think you're going to go there, you're going to be protected; 2. You're going to also have access to birth control for an added measure if need be. She rolls her eyes now, but knows I'm serious. I want her future to be great and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Shared- I love it!!! when the kissing starts, sometimes your brains fall out

That's a very good way to phrase it, I'll have to remember it for when my boys get older. :)

Inmissouri - thanks. I've also given the poor girl every little detail about sex (the great, not so great, and terrible) so that she is getting the information from me - and it's accurate information. She's fifteen and still afraid of the dating scene but will probably start to date next school year. I'm sure she'll be more than willing to hold off, but hormones have a megaphone when you least expect it. I also want to make sure she is not ashamed of her body, emotions, or physical urges. Believe it not, the hardest conversation was covering the topic of masturbation. I told her it was a normal tool in the sex kit for when she needed privacy to blow off steam. The relieved look on her face spoke volumes: that she was okay and not a bad person. Too bad more parents can't get past their own discomfort to help their children in this sensitive matter. If they don't give them the facts, they are going to get misinformation. STD's were covered in detail too. Kids think they're okay with "just oral sex". But the exchange of body fluids can take place even through oral contact, regardless of the partner's gender.

For sure! I am 56 years old and we were all doing it in high school! Luckily, I had access to the pill. It seems like every generation thinks they invented sex, but rest assured, it has been around since the beginning of time, and always will be.

While I agree with you that teen sex has always happened, I would debate the numbers/percentage. I was naive, I know, and my wife is my one and only. I was a virgin until 24. But I know there were a lot like me in highschool; there were some who did have sex surely, but seemed that most who said they were actually were all talk and no action. I'm sure it depends where you live, too: 8-10 grade I was out in the country and almost no one smoked/had sex/did drugs in the small community; 11-12 grades were in a suburban area, and it seemed the rations reversed. So, let's not make assumptions about the numbers. I'll conceed there are teens having sex, can you conceed that it's not every teen?

I'm 58 so I guess I missed out on the bag and tag that leonhl is talking about. That 2yrs must have made a lot of differance I remmember having to work your a$$ off just to get to second base.

Right on, Rick! I love this one: Valerie Huber, executive director of the National Abstinence Education Association, an advocacy group that resists comprehensive sex education in schools. "We are concerned that the distribution of condoms on school campuses further normalizes teen sex." Teenagers? Abstinence? On what planet does Valerie Huber reside? Or Marla and Lola? I guess they haven't yet figured out that LIFE is sexually transmitted. And, yes it's "normal." Geez, Louise!

Teens are having sex. The average age when most of them begin in the US is at age 14. Of course that doesn't mean it's every teen and not every teen has sex without taking precautions. Nevertheless, the statistics tell us that 50% of pregnancies in this country are unintentional.

It's the 21st Century, folks. It's past time to remove all the 'good' and 'bad' connotations from sex and sex ed. It's past time to remove all the politics as well. If folks want fewer abortions we have to make birth control readily available. We cannot have it any other way.

There was a big meeting between Pro and Anti Choice people about this and supposedly there was a meeting of the minds about this. Evidently the people in the trenches didn't hear about it, so here's what was decided: birth control has to be taught in schools because parents aren't teaching their children, or they aren't doing it soon enough. Denial isn't enough so it's going to happen in school since it doesn't occur at home. Parents who don't like it, sorry about that. Your daughter's future health depends on learning about her body somewhere and the football's been dropped for too long by too many parents. Ignorance will no longer be tolerated as a method of controlling a female's future or her actions.

Girls are going to learn about sex, their bodies and birth control in school. If parents had done their jobs over the last 50 years and taught their children properly, perhaps it would be different today, but it's too late to change that now.

Since I'm going to "do it anyway" could I get a bag of safe weed, some beer and a hotel room?

Maybe they should include free clean needles, to make sure those kids who do drugs during the prom will not use dirty syringes.

Assemblies and writing assignments ARE educational activities.

John, Having the assembly and the writing contest are excellent, imo. A safe sex assembly should include the fact that abstinence is the only 100% effective method to prevent STIs and pregnancy and make it clear that the condom is a safer way to have sex - but, not foolproof. Having the writing contest requires that students actually put some active thought into the issue - while hormones can be strong, someone who has actively thought about the situation is better prepared to deal with the situation.

I was curious about that one too. When I was that age it was the most normal thing in the world! When did it become abnormal?

I certainly wouldn't want some pig to use my daughter and get her knocked up with a precious life, at the tender age of 17 ( still a child - still in school, immature career/ financial-wise, emotional, inexperienced and now going to need to take care of a lil' one- probably alone.

Boy, some of the strange things some people are convinced are normal, wise & profitable?

T momma - Why not talk to her about sex and consent then so she isn't used?

Handing her a condom alone will not get her pregnant (and may prevent it) but treating sex as taboo can lead young people to feel unsure about sexual situations and more likely to be taken advantage of. (not saying that you haven't talked to her about sex and consent but the general attitude of treating 17 year old girls as sexless can also go hand-in-hand with this attitude)

yea. And libs want to give them tequila shots, massage oils and kale enema's. Question is why the school picked THIS vice to focus on? Drinking and driving maybe? How to pick a worthy mate? How to get into a college? Condoms? Wtf are they thinking? can't buy a condom at the local store? you pick THIS? it's a political statement. Again why not give them weed? Why not?? they're going to do it anyway so better not to get it from some gang banger right? This atheist just laughs at the libs until they get some power then it's not very funny to operate based on how you feel at the moment.

Kal Albert

Did you even read the article at all? You're comment is complete off base and if you had actually READ the article with comprehension, perhaps you would have posted something that actually makes sense

Bedford-Stuyvesant Prep, a small, “transfer” school of about 130 students which teens attend after having had academic, disciplinary, or other difficulties elsewhere, conducts safe sex forums and already distributes condoms through sex education initiatives. Other New York City high school allow students to request free condoms as part of HIV/AIDS prevention programs. The Brooklyn school also houses one of New York City Schools’ “Lyfe” (Living for the Young Family through Education) centers, a day-care facility for the young children of current students.

P.S. The Condoms are free?????????? The school is not breaking the law by giving them out.

Shaking head..

was commenting on the comment not the article which if you read you'd have posted something that made sense. shrugging shoulders..

You act like Liberal is a bad word?

@Kal El,

Hey, aren't you Superman's dad?

Anyhoo, do you know if this principal is liberal? Do you know if Pissedoffperson is an atheist? They very well may be, but nobody said anything about it.

I'm typing this very slowly so you can follow along.

Now, we all know you're a troll, just trying to rile people, but you are not a very good troll. You have to be able to make people angry, not make them laugh at you.

BTW, I'm a liberal AND an atheist. I've never had a kale enema, but if you've got a hose and a little free time, I'm willing to learn. Is it painful? I bet it's messy, huh?

Give me your didgits. Let's get this party started!

Pissed-off Person: You act like it's not when it promotes this kind of idiocy?

Next up: free booze and drugs (Quoth the Liberal - "kids are going to drink and take drugs anyway, and it must be OK since the President set such a good example")

John F. Kennedy liberal--Good

Nancy Pelosi liberal -- evil, manipulative, lying bad. (and don't say but conservatives X as there's good and evil there too)

Sadly too little of the former and too many of the later type.

I'm the atheist Bigjeff as the comment made by Pissed was about "Christian conservatives" being all riled. Sorry if you think my comments were Trolly--your issue not mine. Maybe you can reflect with some kale.

Sorry I used such big words BigJeff you missed pretty much everything and I'm sure you've had a lot of interesting things inside of you so you can figure it out.

If semen is caught in a condom and never reaches the uterus does a wing-nut have any right to say anything or will they just go ballistic?

I'm sure they classify it as "Early Term Abortion" and will move to have it illegalized.

Yes the President is a good example, you know fixing the mess the last conservative president left.

Pissedoff... LMAO! Maybe next they'll outlaw masterbation. BTW, This is right out of Houghton-Mifflin:

Conservative: adj. 1. Favoring preservation of the existing order. 2. Moderate; cautious. 3. Traditional

Liberal: adj. 1. Favoring individual freedom and nonrevolutionary reform. 2. Broad-minded or tolerant. 3.Generous; bountiful.

It must be those "Broad-minded, generous" parts that get to them, eh?

lol

masturbation