American-American: Just a quick note - foreign doctors can't just come to the US and start practicing. They must take the US board exams and they have a 73% pass rate for step 1, and 78% for step 3 (I'm not sure what their pass rate is for step 2). Basically, they can't just respond to an advertisement for a position and get hired.

Excellent post. It brings to mind many other jobs, i.e. making 5 million for a movie or more, hairdresser to the stars making 6 figures, or being a Kardashian and having a brand. All of the above from sports to movies, etc, all to entertain everyone from radiologist to hamburger stand worker who actually work without the added bonus of people telling them how great they are at every corner.

its so funny to me that all the nondoctors on here think they have all the answers because of their "astute observations"

I PARK in the physicians section, and I drive a nissan, and most of the cars are fords, nissans, hondas, etc.

Sometimes, roscoe, you see what you want to see...

I drive a Kia and it's 6 yrs old with almost 80K miles. The paint is worn but it runs well so why trade it in on something else.

Roscoe.. Want to know something interesting at the last hospital I worked at? The top administration also parked in the doctor's parking lot and a majority of the nicest cars belonged to them. The CNO actually drove one of the best cars in the lot.

Yes there were some docs that had luxury cars and quite a few with such were in admin and made a huge income, but the avg pediatricians, psychiatrists, etc I know mostly drive what Eric indicated.

@ Eric : I see what's there and your musings won't change facts no matter how much you want them to. Yes there's Fords, Chevys, and Nissans in the Doctor Garage but they are definitely a minority and usually belong to the Interns and Residents.

Mike P : I agree the CEO and Admins get way more than they're worth (our CEO pulled down 4 million last year) but compared to the average hospital employee the Docs cars are way more expensive.

roscoe,

you need to consider the fact that your sample size of 1 hospital is not enought to draw a conclusion. Neither is 2, or 3, or 10. That's the reason studies contain thousands of subjects

I shouldn't have to tell you that...

Eric, You don't have to tell me that. They're are 5 hospitals in our system and more than 50 in our affiliation and I could walk into anyone of them and prove it all day long.............

First, just because they are in your "affiliation" doesn't mean youve been to them. and even if you had been to every single one of them, 50 out of 5000 hospitals is 1% of all hospitals in the US

Again, as I tried to tell you earlier, hardly a sufficient sample size to draw a conclusion. Moreover, there's no way to tell which cars belong to physicians and which belong to hospital execs

Again, if you can't understand elementary math and statistics, there is nothing I can do for you...

Well Eric as a matter of FACT I have been to almost 20 of them as I'm a Clinical Engineer and travel around to evaluate Medical Equipment. You can stay in denial all you want, bottom line is Doctors make plenty of bank. They live in more expensive houses and drive more expensive cars and no amount of surveys or data you collect it will show that to be false and joe public already knows it, but feel free to keep believing your myth.

I have been to almost 20 of them...

So 0.5% of hospital parking lots, and you know enough to conclude what every doc in this country drives. Are you delusional or just that bad at math?

but feel free to keep believing your myth

myth, math, only one letter off....

Well my .5% is more data than you have so I'll go with actual evidence. Nowhere did I say every doctor drives an expensive car but like typical politicians you add words to other peoples statements to spin the story your way.

roscoe,

Well my .5% is more data than you have so I'll go with actual evidence

ummm...first, half a turd is still a turd. Half assed observations are not evidence...no matter how bad you want them to be.

By the way, did you read the article? It stated what docs made. While certainly it places them in upper middle class, its not enough to buy super luxury cars. THATS my evidence....

Nowhere did I say every doctor drives an expensive car..

I beg to differ...

Doctors make plenty of bank. They live in more expensive houses and drive more expensive cars

Notice you didn't say "some doctors", or "a few doctors"...you said "doctors". Period

Its pretty hard to lie when you type something and hit enter.

Game, set, match

Since I'm not seeing the word "ALL" there either. I think your game, set, match is a bit premature. Of course jumping to conclusions is probably not the only thing you do prematurely..............

roscoe,

Im not sure how you aren't understanding this. You didn't say "some", or "a few"; you said "doctors". Period. the all is implied. If I said "lawyers are scum", that would imply that I thought ALL lawyers are scum. Or if I said "teachers are underpaid"--no reasonable person would infer that meant anything less than nearly all of them.

Its english, try it sometime

And that line about premature ejaculation was just weird. Not funny at all. Honestly--youre a strange guy..

So if I say Criminals are White does that mean they all are????? See where your logic fails. But please keep on trying.........

are you still talking about this? who cares...

Ah, Now it's game, set, and match. Thanks for playing and better luck next time.

no, just got sick of talking to you. To be frank, you had no interesting points nor valid arguments. It got old

That plus your logic and reasons were proven false................

Roscoe2u: Actually, no eric's logic and reasons weren't proven false. When someone makes a statement such as "Doctors drive nice cars" or "criminals are white (or whatever race)", etc., etc. the common interpretation of that is to understand the person making that comment is applying that statement to all doctors or all criminals, etc., etc. When you want to indicate that most doctors you have experience with drive nice cars, the best way to convey what you mean is to state what you mean, that is "most doctors I see drive nice cars".

@Summer, Really???? Well try that in court and see how far you get with it. Statements are open to interpetation, so unless you are being specific you have no way of proving the statement one way or another which is the point I'm trying to make.

First of all, this isn't a court room - this is an online forum.

Second of all, if you want to make a point on an online forum, you need to realize that your communication lacks body language - which means your words are the only thing conveying your point. You used a generalized statement, and as such, it was interpreted as a generalized statement. If you didn't mean to make a generalized statement, then you need to use specific terminology.

You can't really blame others for interpreting your generalized statement as a generalized statement in this case. Eric's logic wasn't lacking in this, your communication was lacking.

On the topic of whether doctors drive nice cars or not, and if that indicates whether the person is rich or not, I will say this: There are some doctors that drive nice vehicles, there are some that drive average vehicles, there are even some that drive crappy cars. There certainly are some doctors that would qualify as rich; there are some that would not. When asking a doctor if they perceive themselves as rich, there are a lot of things that go into that physicians perceptions about whether they are rich or not. If they still have a lot of student loan debt, many will not consider themselves rich yet. If they consider how many hours they work in order to have the salary they make, some will not consider themselves rich. If they consider non-monetary things (like family life, social life, etc., etc.) some would not consider themselves rich because they sacrifice a lot of these things. There are other things that the doctor may be considering when answering the questions "do you consider yourself rich".

THAT"S EXACTLY RIGHT, I made a generalized statement in my original post about what I have seen in the 25 years I've worked in Healthcare at numerous Hospitals. Eric chose to tell me that my logic was flawed due to the fact I didn't include every hospital and Doctor in the U.S. I contend my observations are no more flawed than his since he doesn't have anymore data to support his position other than what he reads in the media. I have LIVED IT. It's sorta like the Military, you can speculate about it all you want but until you've carried a rifle in defense of this Country you have no clue what it's really like.....

Roscoe2U: Except that since you're the one that made the claim, it's up to you to support that claim. Eric does contend that you have a small sample to draw from, which, then makes it impossible for you to make a generalized statement. Personal observation is perfectly fine, however, you can't say that all doctors drive luxury cars based on personal observation. Just as Eric couldn't say that most doctor's drive standard vehicles (which he didn't actually claim - all he said was that in the parking lot he parks in, most are standard vehicles).

You made the statement that doctors drive nice cars. This implies a generalized statement, and, this implies a blanket statement that applies to all physicians. Eric's stated that he sees physicians that don't drive luxury cars - that, in and of itself, is evidence that not all doctors drive nice cars (which is what your generalized statement implied). He doesn't have to prove that most doctor's don't drive luxury cars to refute your claim, all he has to do is show that some doctor's drive standard vehicles - which he did (using the same level of evidence you used - personal observation).

btw, Eric has lived it also (he's a cardiology fellow); as have I (as a medical student).

Roscoe.. Then why don't you become a doctor? It's almost never too late to go back to school. People in their 50's are graduating from medical school. There is also a lot of need for doctors who are willing to accept low pay and work with the poor and it is extremely rewarding work.

Like in most professions there is a wide range of income opportunities. Yes doctors can make much more on the upper end than some professions but then not nearly as much as some others. Yes some doctors do drive more expensive cars but that doesn't mean that they are all "rich."

Love your handle. And agree with your post.

that doctors and hospitals admit to killing 100,000 people per year by preventable errors

thats a lie. don't believe everything you read. Things like hospital acquired infections aren't always preventable, especially in immunocomprimised patients. However, insurance companies and the govt would love for you to believe it, so they can deny your doc and the hospital payment

Moreover, most do not work a full week with some hospital employed physicians taking a week vacation per month.

and working 60-70 hours a week the other 3 weeks of the month....forgot to mention that, didn't ya?

The first question to ask the doctor ordering the test is whether he or she owns an interest in the MRI machine or CAT Scanner or an interest in the lab. Studies reveal that doctors that own a financial interest in the MRI machine or CAT Scanner order far more tests than those that do not. This is why the Department of Health and Human Services does not allow self referrals.

So you obviously missed the inherent contradiction above. No self referal allowed, so if a doc orders a test, its probably not for his financial benefit

Eric -- Don't stick your head in the sand. The problem with the medical profession and the defenders thereof refuse to address the issue.

"According to a recent report from the AARP, the risk of death in American hospitals from preventable medical errors and/or medical malpractice has not significantly declined despite increased awareness. In fact, recent studies indicate that the problem is growing. A Health and Human Services Department report issued in January 2012 found that 1 out of 7 Medicare hospital patients died or suffered serious injury due to their hospital care, and nearly half of these deaths were determined to be preventable. In a recent study inHealth Affairs, patient charts from three of the country's leading hospitals were reviewed. Researchers found that in one-third of all admissions in those hospitals, patients suffered some type of harm.

The number of annual deaths from preventable hospital errors and/or medical malpractice is staggering. Indeed, the number of deaths from prevental hospital errors is the equivalent of four jumbo jets crashing each and every week--and that may be an underestimate. One study released in January 2012 found that 86% of harm done to patients was not reported by hospital staff."

Source: AARP Newsletter, "The Worst Place to be if You're Sick," Katharine Greider, March 2012.

Moreover, as the above quote makes clear, these are the errors that are reported. If the airline industry killed this many people, the public would not fly and Congress would investigate and we would try and fix the problem. When it comes to doctors and hospitals, rather than addressing the problem, the medical profession whines about the high cost of malpractice coverage and they don't make enough money. Rather than combating the problem, the medical profession and their insurance companies scream that the legal system is broken and the rights of the injured need to be limited.

With reference to the 60 to 70 hours a week, I simply ask how much of that time is spent asleep and or watching TV? There are many individuals in this country that work 60 to 70 hours per week and do not make the kind of money that doctors do. Quit whining and do your work.

With reference to self referrals, this regulation has to do with Medicare recipients, not the general public.

According to a recent report from the AARP...

Im asking you to go one step further. Instead of blindly accepting figures from groups with an agenda, I ask you to examine how the data was collected, what was determined to be an error, how did that error cause the death, and was the error in fact a true medical error..

For example, hospital acquired infections aren't always due to medical error. That makes up a large percentage of the so called medical errors you cite...

You can accuse me of "sticking my head in the sand" or whatever other cliche you can dig up, but the fact is you are blindly repeating numbers without analyzing them or thinking for yourself. If that's not hiding from the truth, I don't know what is

I simply ask how much of that time is spent asleep and or watching TV?

Very little. frankly, if you actually practiced medicine instead of typing about it on your computer, you would know. In residency, sleeping for 3 hours a shift was a rare treat. Now, I work 12 hour days routinely, and take call--I often have to come in to perform an emergency catheterization

Just use your brain for one second--medicine is not a 9-5 job, and emergencies often happen at odd hours--one must go in after a full days work is done to put in another few hours

That has to make sense to you...

Eric --

Your unmitigated arrogance is amazing. I cited the AARP article as an example. There are a plethora of studies that have come to the same conclusion. Take a look at the Institute of Medicine study, which found as many as 98,000 people die every year at a cost of $29 billion. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that there were 181,000 severe injuries attributable to medical negligence in 2003. HealthGrades, the nation’s leading healthcare rating organization, found that Medicare patients who experienced a patient-safety incident had a one-in-five chance of dying as a result.

I did not make these numbers up and, yes, I have researched the data. The long and short of it is that the medical profession, of which you are a member, will not fess up to the fact that they are not perfect. Moreover, there are preventable errors and, yes, people do die from those preventable errors.

Your unmitigated arrogance is amazing

really? Whats arrogant? You cite the aarp's OPINION. I asked you to provide FACTS, and specifically, show how those facts were collected. I have asked you now a few times to specifically consider nosocomial infections--you have ignored that

There's really no need for name calling here. You should settle down a little...

Take a look at the Institute of Medicine study, which found as many as 98,000 people die every year at a cost of $29 billion.

So those numbers in the IOM report were derived from a 2000 Harvard observational study. This study did not control for baseline health of the patient, nor make any effort to establish a causal relationship between the error and death. So, in essence, an error ocurred and a death occurred in a patient, and the IOM assumed that the two were 100% correlated in every case. Moreover, some of the "errors", like nosocomial infection, nighttime delerium, etc as I described above are not necessarily errors, but often unavoidable adverse outcomes. Theres a great JAMA article that details this which I unfortunately cannot quote here as it is subscription only, but here's the title

Deaths due to medical errors are exaggerated in Institute of Medicine report.
McDonald CJ, Weiner M, Hui SL.

I did not make these numbers up and, yes, I have researched the data.

Its not enough to look up numbers and regurgitate them. One step is to critically analyze the numbers, and come up with a conclusion that is supported by the numbers. You have not done that here

The long and short of it is that the medical profession, of which you are a member, will not fess up to the fact that they are not perfect. Moreover, there are preventable errors and, yes, people do die from those preventable errors.

Umm...incorrect. The medical profession is LEADING the way in reducing errors. It is the medical profession that instituted things like checklists for surgery, a "time out" to ensure that the patient, staff,and doc are in agreement about the procedure and surgical site (to cut down on wrong side surgeries)

Its not that I, or medicine as a whole, deny that medical errors happen. They do, daily, and like the surgical site example above, are often devastating and inexcusable. Its just that I resent sensationalist journalism, and frankly, manufactured numbers that cause the desired result, as seen in you: unbridled hysteria

Bob.. Yes there are medical errors in the US that result in deaths, that is sadly a given. Are you trying to say that medical professionals don't care or don't try to prevent errors from occurring???

The exact numbers of errors can only be speculated. Here's why: If someone goes to the hospital for a cardiac event and they are given Tylenol when aspirin was technically prescribed that's a medical error. In another instance a person may be given a wrong medication that induces a heart attack, which is obviously a medical error. Then another error could include the primary care physician not immediately hospitalizing a person who is at high risk (not having but at high risk) the person that night goes to the hospital with a heart attack. Finally, a patient fails to take their medication properly so they have a heart attack. In all four instances say the person dies.

All four could be included in a study of medical errors because the person died while under medical care OR only one of these could be included because it reached a point of being presented at the m&mc. In the instances above only one error by a medical professional actually directly led to the death of the patient. Often data for research is limited due to confidentiality and plain lack of time to read through every chart in detail for every patient to determine if an error occurred.

Most doctors and nurses that I know work very hard to understand medical errors and have promoted steps to reduce those errors, such as computer entry for scripts, weekly meetings to discuss errors, and how to change the system to prevent them. They also have systems to check that certain medications are correctly administered, like dosage limiting of one dose per container for highly toxic substances and requiring double checks on look alike/sound alike medications.

I agree that we should have more medical schools and doctors, but if you graduated "10X" the current numbers you would have many more unqualified physicians, so medical errors would likely go through the roof. That would mean graduating ANYONE who applied to medical school. Really???

Finally, as far as cost reductions read my other posts of where the real cost of medical care is mostly at. Up to 60% of your healthcare dollar now goes to something besides medical care, where 50+ years ago that was less than 20%. Lots of middle men taking a cut, fix that and the cost of care would drop dramatically.

Mike and Eric are correct. The Institute of Medicine has made a name for itself by gathering data from a few teaching hospitals where doctors in training make more mistakes than more experienced doctors in private practice would make. IOM also calls things like drawing the same blood test twice a mistake. Admittedly it may be one, but it is hardly a life threatening one. Any group seeking brief fame can do what the IOM has done. It has taken a few instances in a few hospitals and made a guess at what is going on in all hospitals without actually proving the mistakes are actually occurring. The fact that most of the people representing the IOM are second tier academicians who are frequently passed over for promotions and who would not have their names on any publications without this witch hunt speaks volumes about their intentions.

TVAR -- I hope you and your family remember this quote when you are dying from a medical mistake and your family has no recourse. Of course, it is never a frivolous lawsuit when you are injured.

the number of frivilous lawsuits in this country is out of control.

I had similar problems with medical billing a few years ago. I called the urgent care before going; asked them how much it would cost to get a tetanus vaccination. I was told it would only be $90...so I went and paid cash. A month later I got a bill for $20 for a specialist fee or something like that. I called the urgent care and the hospital chain it was a part of. I refuted this extra charge because I was given the $90 amount and paid it in cash. Eventually, they said their board agreed to dismiss the additional fee. This getting billed multiple times for one procedure is common...even happened to me when I had a root canal/porcelain crown and paid cash. Happened also when I was involved in a PI lawsuit and went to the Orthopedic Surgeon. Hospitals/Doctors....all a racket here.

How many occupations can you name that require "far more education, far more hands on training, than any MD"? Name a few.

then go...good riddance...

Eric, you are just another lamb....bend over a little more....let them stick it in.

Why are you talking about raping sheep? You are a perverted freak. Leave this country now...

I agree, but it is the citizens' fault ultimately. They embrace greed and justify it with this elitist Social Darwinian rhetoric. I'd like to see some of these poor, angry, ultra conservative folks need healthcare and see how the system treats them....because they are not part of the uber wealthy, but like to think that they are. Reality needs to slap them in the face.

brian,

doctor's fees make up 8% of healthcare costs.

try again...

eric - 8% of $3 Trillion is a great deal of money and my post describes the entire health care cost, which is DRIVEN by doctors. Doctors order expensive x-rays, MRI, CAT scans, lab tests, lab tests, and lab tests...surgeries here, surgeries there...and DON'T get me started on how many Drugs they have patients take ($$$$$). Doctors are responsible for driving 99% of health care costs. They hand out testing and medications like they are free, and they are NOT.

Maybe if more people would use their treadmill for something other than a clothes rack and eat salads more often than cheese fries, they wouldn't need so many meds. I don't know of any doctors who hand out prescriptions just for the fun of it.

brian

youre obviously angry, but you need to take a minute, catch you breath, and think

Sandy brings up excellent points. Drs have no financial incentive to write prescriptions nor to order tests (the vast majority of the time), so logic would dictate that they are doing it because its medically necessary.

Also, while 8% of the total health care budget is a lot, as a percentage, its quite small. In addition, one would think you pretty much have to pay doctors. Furthermore, that percentage is stable or even shrinking, while medical costs are skyrocketing

All of this leads any reasonable person to conclude that other factors should be addressed before addressing drs salaries if one is truly interested in cost control

meds (haven't you seen the reports of the pharmaceutical companies providing "kick backs," "seminars "in lush hotels and private eateries" and other lavish rewards for handing out scripts of their meds. The same goes for diagnostic tests, both imaging and clinical (laboratory) - these companies, e.g., Baxter, Novartis, Amgen, GSK, etc., provide doctors MANY MANY "incentives," including cold hard cash.

Thats a lie. Boldface, plain lie. Kickbacks are illegal--and no one gets money for writing a script from a pharm company. No one gets a kickback for ordering an imaging test within the confines of the law. Please provide ANY evidence of this happening on anything approaching a major scale. True, if youre a major player a company might hire you to speak at a conference, but those are the leaders of the field, and the other 99% of docs aren't invited to speak anywhere

Paramedics save lives... proficient marksman on the SWAT team...combat soldiers...

They don't go to school for 12+years...they don't have the giant loans that docs due on average...they don't have to do a grueling residency. Med school admission is quite competitive--more so than the police academy. They don't have the huge liability of med malpractice hanging over their heads. They don't have to pay huge sums of money for malpractice insurance. The list goes on and on...

while soldiers and cops risk their lives every day, and undoubtedly deserve more money than they recieve, I think the biggest difference is that while its relatively easy to become a cop or soldier, its much more difficult to become a doctor

In this country, we reward length and difficulty of education. On average, a college grad makes more than a high school grad, and a graduate degree usually makes more than either (MBA for example)

Thats the way it is, and rightfully so. Its one way we encourage our best and brightest to strive harder. Altruism and a desire to help people are also reasons, and not mutally exclusive

"Thats the way it is, and rightfully so.  Its one way we encourage our best and brightest to strive harder.  Altruism and a desire to help people are also reasons, and not mutally exclusive"

You have to be kidding me; you're so stuck on "Education means everything!" it's unreal. Drinking the kool-aid are you? It takes WAY more than 12+ years for a Navy fleet Admiral to reach his/her position (4 Star Admiral) and believe me, those fleet Admirals are the best and the brightest, several of them with doctorate degrees themselves. And residency? You think 25 years of military service 24/7, being thrown into combat, moved to all parts of this world (some not-so-good places, mind you) isn't as "tough" as medical residency?? Your medical doctor kool-aid must be super duper sweet.

You relate a SWAT sniper to someone who "got into" the police academy? That's like saying a medical doctor should be equated to someone who got into college (junior college). There is so much you left out between police academy and SWAT sniper, it's uncanny. Try 12+ years of hard street work (also 24/7, BTW), school (most require a B.S/B.A minimum), and training, training, and more training - enough to melt most medical doctors into the pavement. Not to mention the relentless background investigations, psych evals, and forensic studies.

So you think its "relatively" easy to become a fleet Admiral (or Command General)? You think it's relatively easy to become a police profiler (all the ones I know have doctorate degrees, including several M.D.s w/psychiatry residencies)? NONE and I mean NONE of these life-saving, hard working educated and trained professionals make anywhere near the $400,000 to $600,000+ that medical doctors make.

It's time medical doctors start making substantially LESS.

Brian... Excellent idea!! I totally agree that income is significantly out of balance across different careers. Lets set up a government panel to establish fair salaries for EVERYONE! What should we base those on? Years of service, education, popular vote? We should also establish price controls because there is no reason Car A should cost that much more than B, just because of the sticker. Oh and Apple computers/iphones are WAY over priced compared to others, so drop those as well.

Wasn't that type of system tried before? How'd it work out?

Mike -

Actually - I don't like price fixing of anykind - especially government controlled. I simply think medical doctors make too much money for what they are worth and for what we as a society can afford.

I don't want any measure taken to control it. I simply think $3 trillion/yr on health care is too much for the U.S. don't you? I also do not believe doctors will keep their salaries up for much longer.

Price controls are evil. Government control of pricing is even worse. I suspect strongly the price of medical / healthcare is a fantasticall giant bubble and it's going to naturally fall all on its own (as it should)!

I agree that change must come!! Want to know where the healthcare dollars are going? Look at the insurance company execs in my post on the first page and look at what goes into hospital admin, pharmaceuticals, and medical equipment. Most doctors are not making $400K/yr. Most doctors would be ok with less pay if the associated costs of practicing would be reduced. Many years ago the local doc could hang out a shingle and set up a practice for almost nothing. Now that same practice costs $100K plus just to set up, not mention costs of running it.

I've said this numerous time elsewhere but 30-60% of every healthcare dollar goes to something besides healthcare! 50 years ago only 10-20% went to something else. I know that reimbursement rates to doctors have steadily dropped, yet insurance rates keep rising.

It takes WAY more than 12+ years for a Navy fleet Admiral to reach his/her position (4 Star Admiral)

My roommate in college's uncle was an admiral for the navy. when he retired, he took a private sector consulting job and made more in one year than I will make in 10

You think 25 years of military service 24/7, being thrown into combat, moved to all parts of this world (some not-so-good places, mind you) isn't as "tough" as medical residency?? Your medical doctor kool-aid must be super duper sweet.

No, i think the military is harder, in fact. Med school is just harder to get into than the military, and takes more academic strength. In this society, we tend to reward both of those things over physical strength (aside from the few high performing athletes). I think that's probably fair, but certainly its a matter of opinion

You relate a SWAT sniper to someone who "got into" the police academy? That's like saying a medical doctor should be equated to someone who got into college (junior college)

No. A swat sniper went to the police academy before he joined the swat team. As a bachelor's degree is required for med school, i can't imagine that a physician went to junior college before med school

ining, and more training - enough to melt most medical doctors into the pavement.

Ive never heard of the government cracking down on swat training for being too rigorous. It has done so with medical training, though. So I think youre incorrect here

1) most doctors get a LOT of vacation. Weeks and weeks. Like 2 months worth. I'll take that income with that vacation time.

False. I took 2 weeks of vacation this year. Source please?

2) all this cr@p about malpractice insurance is just that. First, it is completely deductible so it is already taken into account in the "average income" figures given in this article.

Im not sure you understand what deductible means. Lets say my income is 150K/year. And my malpractice is 25K per year. My taxable income is my net minus my malpractice costs, which equals 125K. I STILL have to pay the 25K for malpractice, AND am taxed on 125K of income. Its not a free lunch

Second, doctors are mollycoddled in most states when it comes to liability. For example, doctor in Indiana f's up and cuts off the wrong leg? No problem! Indiana legislature has his or her back, liability capped at around 1 million! Nice gig if you can get it - no other professional is protected that way.

True, indiana has strict tort laws, and is a friendly place for drs to practice. But overall, dr's are still subject to incredible abuse of the system by lawyers. Look at the facts:

Researchers led by Dr. Anupam Jena, a physician at Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, analyzed malpractice data over a 14-year period for all physicians covered by a large malpractice insurance provider. They estimated more than 75 percent of doctors in specialties with a low risk of malpractice and 99 percent of doctors in high-risk practices will be sued.

99%???!!! That's your definition of protected??? I'd hate to see your definition of persecuted...

3) I know many doctors and they are doing just fine - living in huge houses, driving things like porsches, mercedes, bmws - I don't feel sorry for them one bit. I don't begrudge them for what they earn, but stfu we don't want to hear you whine you are fairly compensated.

You know what, 5 or 10 docs at the most? Hardly enough to make a blanket statement about all the other docs in the country. As others have said, there are docs that do very well, docs that do ok, and docs that do worse. You need to meet more docs or, heaven forbid, do some research before you post meaningless observations and anecdotes...