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Subscribe to RSSIn the weeks since Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales was first accused of going on a shooting rampage in an Afghanistan village, military officials and the media have combed through his life for warning signs or anything that could have predicted what may have been to come.
While the 11-year Army veteran, who was formally charged with 17 counts of murder, had recent financial troubles, professional disappointments and combat-related injuries, his family and friends say they never anticipated that he might experience a catastrophic breakdown. Bales’ lawyers suspect undiagnosed post-traumatic stress disorder is partly to blame, though experts say there is no evidence linking PTSD to the kind of violence he allegedly committed.
The mystery of what may have have gone wrong in his mind has drawn new attention to PTSD and the mental health of U.S. combat soldiers. The Army hopes that a study currently under way may be able to eventually identify groups of soldiers whose mental health is most fragile based on an algorithm or formula of factors.
The Army STARRS (Study To Assess Risk and Resilience in Servicemembers) initiative, done in partnership with the National Institute of Mental Health, is gathering details about the lives and mental health of 55,000 soldiers. Participants are chosen at random to attend a session about the study at Army basic training sites, and they are not required to participate.) The goal of the study, which was launched in 2009 and is the largest-ever of its kind, is to provide the military and public health community with information about why some individuals remain resilient to challenges and trauma while others are deeply affected. The project is specifically looking at what might place soldiers at an increased risk for suicide and which factors make them more resilient to that risk.
Dr. Kevin Quinn, the NIMH official leading the study, says the research is similar to the Framingham Heart Study, which followed thousands of patients and identified risk factors for cardiovascular disease. There are now calculators that use a set number of variables to predict a person’s risk for cardiovascular disease, and Quinn hopes Army STARRS will yield similar results. Though suicide and psychological disorders are much more complex than cardiovascular disease, Quinn believes the study’s results will help the Army build a risk profile based on multiple factors.
It’s possible that in the future, groups of soldiers encountering the same challenges as Bales faced might be identified as high-risk for extreme mental and emotional crises – specifically suicidal thoughts or behavior – based on the results of this research.
Quinn says the study will help the Army develop policies to protect soldiers at risk. For example, if the results show that soldiers are at higher risk when they have little rest time at home between deployments, the Army could institute a policy requiring a longer break. The study results should also help the Army know when and how to provide mental health services to a certain group of high-risk soldiers. The algorithm could be used at any time during soldiers’ active duty to gauge their risk profile, though Quinn says individuals would not be singled out, or have to worry about facing stigma as a result.
“This is never going to be in the position to point to an individual soldier,” says Quinn, “… but if you can somehow point to 10,000 soldiers, it makes it more feasible to develop an intervention strategy.”
That power of prediction will be critical in the coming years. Dr. Robert Heinssen, who managed Army STARRS at its inception and is currently a division director at the NIMH, says that about 20 to 25 percent of deployed service members will experience mental health disorders or diseases. Of the more than 2 million soldiers who have served in Afghanistan and Iraq, that’s as many as 500,000 individuals.
The Army STARRS research team has collected more than 1 billion records on active duty soldiers to get a comprehensive picture of the factors that play into resilience and risk. Researchers are looking at medical, criminal and personnel records, among other files, that have been stripped of identifying information.
In addition to combing records, researchers are also surveying the soldiers participating in the study about everything from violent behavior to promotions to accidents to stress. Service members have even voluntarily donated their blood so researchers can examine their biochemical profile before and after deployment. Researchers are looking for chemical markers that might be associated with chronic stress or PTSD and suicide. Some soldiers have volunteered to have their survey results matched to their administrative records, but through an anonymous ID number. Finally, the research team is also looking at the records of the 1.6 million service members who served between 2004 and 2009, when the suicide rate doubled.
Preliminary findings from Army STARRS show that being married is associated with greater resilience against suicide during deployment. The rate of suicide is highest amongst those currently deployed. It also seems linked to the time between enlistment and active duty for those at the beginning of their careers – the longer the period, the less risk. Additional findings are expected later this year.
80 percent increase in suicide rate
A study released earlier this month by the U.S. Army Public Health Command found that the number of active-duty soldiers who committed suicide increased 80 percent between 2004 and 2008.
“It’s always going to be a bit of a mystery to know why for that individual they got locked into a path that led them to that level of despair and hopelessness that [suicide] was the only way out,” says Heinssen.
Charles Marmar, who leads the Posttraumatic Stress Disorder Research Program at New York University’s Langone Medical Center, says that he and other experts were once optimistic that veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars would have fewer cases of PTSD and other mental health issues than Vietnam veterans given the advances in medicine and psychiatry as well as more support for service members. But that hasn’t been the case. Marmar conducted a landmark study that found that about 30 percent of Vietnam veterans have PTSD – and now believes cases from the decade’s past wars are tracking at roughly the same rate.
“If you serve in war, particularly in high intensity combat, the cost of war may be these kinds of rates of PTSD,” Marmar says.
Marmar says that among the most significant risk factors for PTSD are genetic predisposition, a family history of psychiatric problems, exposure to a traumatic event during childhood or adolescence and poor social support before, during or after a traumatic experience. Research has shown that PTSD risk increases when a soldier is wounded or is deployed multiple times. The symptoms of traumatic brain injuries, which Bales is believed to have had, include irritability and mood changes and overlap with common reactions after trauma.
Story: Wife of Staff Sgt. Robert Bales to TODAY: 'I just don't think he was involved'
While patients with PTSD often re-live the trauma through flashbacks, feel emotionally numb and are easily startled, there is no evidence they will act with the kind of violence Bales is accused of unleashing, says Dr. Matthew Friedman, executive director of the Department of Veterans Affairs’ National Center for PTSD.
For alleged Afghan shooter, death penalty unlikely
Some experts worry that the association of PTSD with a case like Bales’ may further stigmatize the disorder after decades of efforts to achieve public acceptance.
“It may raise a frightening specter of being out of control,” says Marmar. “On the other hand, it raises awareness of the potential cost of undiagnosed and untreated emotional problems of war.”
There is help for those with PTSD, says Friedman. Some studies have shown that after 10 to 12 weeks of treatment with two psychotherapy treatments, PTSD symptoms ease and patients are able to maintain their progress five years later. “Even those who don’t have complete remission, we can make a major difference in quality of life.”
Quinn believes the results of Army STARRS could build a framework for providing soldiers mental health services and treatments before it becomes too late for some.
“We want to make sure they get the right treatment or policy plan,” he says. “We want to protect those soldiers."
Rebecca Ruiz is a senior editor at msnbc.com and a Rosalynn Carter Mental Health Journalism Fellow.
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Now if only they had a similar test for politicians!
Seriously however...I have mixed feelings about it. If you have a manpower crunch, more likely than not you're going to get the warm body and deal with the consequences. This happened with PFC Manning (the Wikileak guy). They had all sorts of warning bells, and still they took him.
If they do implement this, then I wonder if that means a return of the draft, and how that applies? Or to the ones already in this all volunteer force? Quite a few points to ponder.
I have an easy remedy - get our people out of foreign countries. We shouldn't still be there.
I think you are correct, Disgruntled. We accomplished little over there, and Iraq looks like it started to spiral out of control as soon as we left. Those people might be worse off now than before we showed up to "save them." I do not think we can impose a way of life on a group of people no matter how well intentioned we are (that's assuming we are well intentioned at all). People have to find their own way and fight their own battles. It is that way in day to day life as well. You can try to take over and fix someone's perceived problems, but they won't change, and they'll likely resent the intrusion.
Let people fail or succeed on their own merits. To do otherwise makes us seem smug and arrogant.
It seems like things have come full circle, and we are back in the 60's again circa 2012.
I think they need a way to measure the brain's neurotransmitters. In my experience with mental illness, I believe there were times when my serotonin level was near zero. I say that because the first Paxil I took made me euphoric. Not that Paxil is the answer, as after taking it for years, I got really depressed and the Paxil was actually a prime contributor. Knowing in advance that it could do that probably saved my life. Being 61 and having attempted suicide multiple times in my teens, I have a great appreciation for what mental illness can do to a person. That is augmented by the anti-psychotic Seroquel which not only makes my current thinking clearer but my memories make better sense as well. Intelligence and technical ability have been huge factors in my ability to survive. I've had to commit myself several times as an adult , being ob the verge of suicide. I have also made millions for companies, of which I got almost nothing. Genius is a double edged sword, while it helps greatly in 'normal' life, the perception of life can be greatly disappointing. And in psychosis it can be a monster.
Nixon, I was there. We accomplished much. Your welcome.
I for one, appreciate all that you accomplished and all that you gave up. The really sad part is that after we pulled combat troops, we knew that things would fall apart. This is nothing that falls on any of the troops that gave until it hurt. This falls on Washington and all of our elected officials. Changes hurt and with nothing to make changes permanent, things return to "normal' at a very rapid rate.
the baddest guy in my high school class washed out of basic training.ive seen other guys you wouldnt think twice about step up heroically.look at Audie Murphy.he was all of 5 foot nothing,a hundred and nothing pounds.or to put it another way,you cant tell a book by its cover.
I have a good idea for the first question they can have on this STARRS test:
1) Have you been in a war for 11 years?
Amazing. The top rated comment is "get our people out of foreign countries"
That's like saying, "Sure there's a problem, but instead of addressing it, let's sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist, so that when this problem arises again, we'll all be screwed."
You want to cut down on war duty tours, and maybe some PTSD? How about the draft? Spread the wealth around? How about, spread the duty around? Look, we were all assured that these wars were for our national defense. But, no more than a few percent could be bothered to volunteer to defend the country? Hate foreign wars? Require that ALL fighting is done by only draftees, that'll cut down on the number of wars! One of the reasons for lack of support for our recent wars, is the unequal participation by the privileged class. We can spare our poor and working class kids to fight, but not middle class and above? Even to "defend the country"? Draft everybody, NO deferments, for any reason. Want to go to college? A tour of duty only lasts three years. Surely you can put off the spring breaks, and all night keggers that long.
Really, three years of civilian service, or two years of military would do most kids a world of good, and our country, as well. Hey, the right wingers are in love with Israel, and that's the way they roll! It won't happen, of course. We've past the time in our history when our youth, our politicians, and our parents can be bothered with such things as giving back to your country.
You know who is resilient to the attrocities of war? Psychopaths. You know who can murder americans and be called a hero? Obama.
@blahblah-2632236: That's exactly who starts these wars and profits from them. Psychopaths.
God almighty, you must be a dolt.
Hello everybody,
The fact of the matter is that all soldiers are human. I am former U.S. Navy myself. I got out just prior to the first Iraq war. I latter suffered PTSD as a result of a work place injury. It has been almost nine years since the day that I snapped. Everybody's breaking point is different. We as humans are all built a little differently; chemically. I suspect that even with an implementation of a program to identify soldiers that may come undone, it will fail in the long run. The reasons are multiple, and I am sure that I am going to miss many.
1. Nobody soldier wants to be identified as a risk. Why, It threatens his career of course. This diagnosis will label him as a risk, a weekness. The military doesn't want weakness. So a soldier is going to lie, he will the outcome of being honest to certain questions.
2. Even though the military says that it wants to identify these soldiers, they themselves will try to bend the results of these tests in a time of war. Why? Hey, they need somebody to do the job right!! Not everybody in the good old U.S. of A is just jumping up and down saying "Oh please, I want to enlist so that I can go spend some time in the desert, among a bunch of people who really don't want me there, and with some who want to either shoot me or blow me up." So it comes down to manpower. How many of these vets have seen multiple tours in either Iraq or Afghanistan? Some have seen multiple tours in both of these countries.
As a person who suffered PTSD, I can tell all of you who read this. It is horrible!!! Unbelievable anxiety. Your fight or flight mechanism is on 24/7!!! One way to relate this is that it is like being in a completly dark room, but your vision seems to be enhanced, you seem to have developed a sort of night vision. If someone where to drop a pin in this dark room onto a shag carpet, you would hear it hit the floor. Now imagine not being able to shut this feeling off!!!! You want to shut it off like turning of a light swith, but you can't find the switch!!!!
So, it comes as no suprise to me that this man may have snapped and killed these people. The only people who could act as peers in his jury, would be people who have suffered with P.T.S.D. Nobody else could possibly weigh his actions.
My best to all of you vets who come home with P.T.S.D. Find a good support group. Don't ever give up. Don't do anything stupid. I may take a long time to get over it. But it will end one day.
@ brother jonrighter, When you learn to read, maybe you will see things differently. You reworded exactly what I said, and called me dull for saying it. What lead you to throw the first stone just like the war starters you criticize? You couldn't possibly be more frustrating if you tried. In the case you are playing dumb, it would still be the work of a dullard.
Sounds like the "good idea fairy" been around again.
At the end of the day when the Army needs a body they going to take what they can get and deal with it later
I have some serious reservations about the way they go about this type of research. One of these goes to the old adage that if you go looking for something, you are likely to find it. These psychiatrists and psychologists go into these studies with their predetermined theories and then set out to prove them. Rarely do any of them go in with a completely open mind and let the data collected lead them to an answer. Instead they go in with the answer they expect and make the data fit that answer.
PTSD is a serious problem for soldiers because of the nature of the fighting they are doing. There are no clear battle lines, there is no rear area where they can let their guard down and decompress a little, there is nowhere they can really feel safe when they are deployed, and is often impossible to tell friend from foe because the enemy does not wear a uniform. To put a person in this type of situation for a year or more without a break is going to cause many of them serious problems. People are not made to be under this kind of continuous high level of stress for such prolonged periods. If the military is serious about doing something about PTSD they need to take a very hard look at deployment lengths as well as the need for regular R&R breaks outside the war zone in a safe place.
As for SSGT Bales, they need to stop looking at this from the standpoint of PTSD and take a much harder look at the traumatic brain injury (TBI) he suffered while in Iraq. Having been very close to someone who suffered a TBI, I can tell you that they take a long time to recover from. The person can seem perfectly normal to those around them, particularly people who do not know them well. They may be perfectly fine for a period of time, but them something can trigger problems with the most common trigger being stress. The person can go from being fine to having major problems like someone threw a switch. TBIs also take a long time to heal and to get past. Rushing the process can have disastrous results. The person may be doing very well in a relaxed environment but if they are thrown into a stressful or emotional situation it can cause them to break down. The breakdown may be minor with the person getting a little quiet and withdrawn, they may get overly emotional and breakdown crying, or it can be major meltdown with the person basically having a mental black out and not remembering later what they did or anything else about a period of time. It is very easy to mistakenly believe that someone is completely over a TBI when that is far from the case, particularly if the person has been in a relaxed, peaceful setting. I would not be surprised if the extremely emotional situation SSGT Bales went through in seeing his friend get his leg blown off by an IED earlier triggered his actions due to the TBI he had suffered and was not yet over.
Your post seems wise and insightful, JS. You sound like a person who has knowledge of this type of phenomenon. Thank you for posting something rational and well thought out. It is refreshing when compared against all the blind hero worshipping and stereotyping folks we often get on here.
so true
so true, David.
They already knew about the need for more rest between deployments and the policy was in place. However, the government reversed itself and sent them anyway. At the beginning of this mess, it was known by every vet except those in the government that PTSD was going to be a major player in the wounded of this war. Guess what, now they complain that they had no idea that the rate of PTSD was going to be so high and that, big surpraise, their resources were not adequate to treat the returning veterans. Now what are they going to do with the massive numbers that report to VA every day? As little as possible because the price is too high. What is too high? Anything it costs to take care of all of the returning veterans.
Ok - we send troops 5-6-7 times to a war zone, away from their loved ones, and we need a multi million dollar study to find out if 1) they're stressed out, 2) they're liable to commit suicide, 3) they may not return "normal". Take a look at some of the war zone pictures and see what you think you would feel like if you lived in that environment 5-6-7 times over a ten year period?
Great post, JS!
Now, if we could just get people to apply those same standards you mentioned to organized religion, we can get to the true root of the PTSD problem, as well as to the root of the political problem and never start another war over religion again.
Rather than look for signs in the hard-driven military members' actions, why not just rotate them out of combat every 6 months for a year or more before allowing them to go back to combat? Constant exposure to combat over three years is not good for anyone -- unless you're a general who never actually sees your buddies get blown up on a daily basis. While they're at it, make the generals (and the lower field officers, too) perform all the physical crap they put enlisted men through to 'keep them in shape' for combat. Don't make any enlisted man do anything the highest ranking officer can't still do.
There's nothing complex at all about it, just a bunch of over analyzing pHD's wanting their names on papers and to be published. Didn't ANYBODY learn ANYTHING from Vietnam?!
He had enough of the collaborating, sneaky "civilians", hiding the enemy, being the enemy, taking cash from both sides, playing both sides, killing his friends. He went and did what a lot of them want to do.
Get our people out of that WORTHLESS CRAPHOLE and let them fight for themselves. A good man's life was ruined by a bunch of collaborators. Their kids' blood is on their own hands.
You are mistaken on your impression of what PhDs do. What evidence do you have or how many PhDs do you know? I'm betting not too much/many for either one.
I do agree with you getting our people out of these F'n hellholes.
Intruding into the Bill of Rights is not a wise idea. No soldier under any circumstance signs away his God-given unalienable rights under this law. I do not care what anyone says. I know the law. This was not an isolated incident. We've got a handful now that have been accused of things that former veterans got away with and I'm starting to wonder what the DNA is of these soldiers:
1. Bales
2. Stein
3. Manning
4. Berghdahl
Fighting branches of the military? Veterans targeting active duty? CO's that want to get rid of insubordinate pay?
What's up?
Better find out. A fact pattern is building here and I'm watching - even if my coward colleagues refuse to admit this is true. I find these days many attorneys unwilling to stand for what is moral and good but they have no compunction standing for a criminally-acting United States Attorney General, do they.
Your comments make little sense. What are talking about?
No one should be surprised that the human brain is susceptible to a sudden meltdown when stressed as much as this man was. Self control and strength of will can only get you so far after seeing such violence and experiencing so much trauma. Human's are resilient but there IS a breaking point. If anything, it's a miracle he was able to hold it together as well as he did for as long as he did. Of course I'm not saying that every serviceman will experience a meltdown and go bonkers...but you can't predict it and the way the military is with mental health, people who need the most help are discouraged from seeking it. That mind set needs to change. Stop pressuring our servicemen to go and killkillkill and then act like nothing happened, get some rest now we have a big day tomorrow killing more people! Oh, you saw your best friend die today? Well that's too bad, now get some sleep. SERIOUSLY? and then when they want to talk to someone about their emotions over the event they're made fun of! Maybe those poor Afghans would still be alive if the alleged murderer had any kind of working support system.
All I can say, as a 3 tour Iraq veteran, is that America showing it's support for the troops (if not for the mission) really goes along way. Please don't stop.
I'm not saying excuse actions like SSG Bales. Just understand that things are ugly in war and people are sometimes pushed beyond what they ever want to do (kill) to survive. It weighs on you everyday. It's a new perspective on living, life and death that you can never undo. When you look down at someone who has died violently (especially when they are in pieces) you see yourself...you see how weak and vulnerable you (humans) really are. It's the death of innocence (or ignorance).
Just keep saying thanks when you can...it helps. I promise.
Find our veterans jobs, people or legislate support that will see those that saw combat or stayed in as a career through the rest of their lives if they cannot collect a pension - do this right - quit labelling everyone mentally ill so that they can collect disability pay.
I agree, Mackie. This could become a real problem if we keep looking for new diagnoses with which to label people. I think we should shy away from labeling people suffering from PTSD as mentally ill in the sense that people with chronic conditions like schizophrenia are. I think you are absolutely correct that this will just give many people the window they are looking for to collect a lifetime of disability instead of working through their problems like the rest of us have to do. We need to work toward getting people back to being productive citizens rather than labeling them permanently disabled and encouraging dependence.
I was an Air Force peacetime veteran,and one big issue missing out of this entire article,is the military "Lifestyle" itself.For example,you really can't just "settle down" and buy a house,knowing that at any time(depending on the needs of the branch you got sucker-punched tom join up for)you can be shipped to another base,even overseas,with little or no notice.(This is REALLY a problem for "Lifers",who pull more than one 4 year stint)Another factor,is the "lonliness" of being stationed possibly far away from your family and friends.(yes,for some people,this IS a blessing!LOL)I also noticed that the Army branch takes their rank very seriously(Such as a Sargeant over a Spec 4),whereas the Air Force took the JOB,seriously.(You can be a A1C(Airman First Class)and be in charge of your base's TMO(traffic Management Office).If some Captain gives you some "lip",you might..Uhhhh....accidently ship off his belongings to Shimya,Alaska(While he boards his plane for Ramstein,Germany!Ha ha!)Although there are exciting and good times to be had in the military,overall,in general,it's not for everyone,and I believe people today are much more "coddled" than my generation.(Sensitive)Many people just don't LIKE to be told "what to do",and ball up into an inner "shell"(usually,this is spotted early in Basic training...To see whether,or not,you can follow orders(take directions).Those who don't "Wash out".
Or maybe some of those washouts were just to intelligent to blindly submit to what they are told. Blind submission to any orthodoxy isn't a hallmark of intelligence or sanity. I have dogs that will blindly submit to whatever they are told to do no questions asked. Maybe the military should just start looking for those kinds of people. They certainly are a lot easier to control and send out to die for your cause.
"Those kinds of people" have kept this country free for a bit over 200 years ! I can proudly say that I was one of them.
Nixon99- your post shows that you know nothing of military service: Blind subservience is one of the LAST things anyone wants. Troops need to follow orders, but the best troops do so using creative intelligence. As the man said, the object is not to blindly die for your country. Most current military members in any branch of the service have above average abilities, and many have adbvanced degrees. There is no such thing as a soldier who is too intelligent.... there is such a thing as the condescending civilian who thinks he knows it all and looks down his nose at his betters in uniform. Tell you what - if the sh*t hits the fan, I'm looking for some of those uniformed folks you look down on to fight with. They may be knuckledraggers to you, but I'm proud to call them brothers.
Point is there are no stupid soldiers. There are no blind followers or blind, dumb soldiers. Soldiers are taught to think on their feet, on the fly with little or no supervison if necessary. Nixon99, you are a self centered idiot that would not make a pimple on a soldiers ass. Ok, go ahead and suspend me or delete my post, but my point is made!
Our spoiled rotten americans who never served their country in the military and never will think that they can civilize war with rules of engagement. The spoiled little darlings should stick to what they know best which are their entitlements, drugs, homosexuality and an obsession with their libido.
I'd be careful with that blind hero worship, Mikey. It makes you sound like an ignoramous. I've met some wonderful military people in my life. They were truly inspirational, but they would likely have been that way had they been civilian. On the other hand, I've met many people who are current and former military who are selfish, entitled, and spoiled. They think of nothing but the day they can get some MD to diagnose them with something, anything to get on disability and get a "free ride for life." People are people, and just because someone is or was a soldier does not make them any more righteous than another person.
Your job is to defend the interests of the United States Mikey! not to blast your morality out the barrel of a gun at American civilians. if you have a problem with that move to Iran, or North Korea, or China
Our soldiers need to be paid more then our spoiled athletes! Financial trouble should not even enter our troops heads!
What the public should know is that along with servicemen and women, emergency responders such as EMTs, Paramedics, Firefighters, Police officers are among those whose jobs can cause PTSD. It can be treated, but IMO it needs to be taken more serious by employers...
If you get disability for PTSD, you'll get scams from people claiming PTSD which makes researching it that much more difficult.
People who don't have PTSD snap and kill their families and engage in violence. If they weren't an EMT, policeman, firefighter, or soldier...I guess they lose the ability to use PTSD as an excuse.
PTSD, like many mental disorders, is not very easy to figure out and treat.
PTSD is not a mental disorder or a Psychological disorder. It is a response to something beyond the normal happenings of the every day person. It is adrenaline related and happens when the body cannot revert the adrenaline levels to the lower pervious levels resulting in a lifetime increased level. For those that cannot understand this, think what is takes to get you from 0-60. The person with PTSD is already doing 30 prior to the start of the race and will reach 60 in a much shorter time than you.
PTSD is exactly a psychological disorder. That's why it is treated successful by psychological treatment. Medicine can be helpful, too, but the success rate is high for psychological treatments.
I think what you may be trying to say is that there are physiological parts of it. But that's true of any psychological disorder. For example, depression can cause a loss of bone density or a poorer outcome from surgeries or heart attacks. PTSD is related to sympathetic (fight or flight) activation out of balance. The major symptoms are psychological and that's how it is treated.
How about applying the research results to NRA members and gun permit applicants? Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan and the rest of the financial industry as well. Maybe even every American (with confidential results) since we provide such little focus on developing emotionally resilient citizens. The only focus I see is developing "consumers"--a bit of a disease in itself
Why do you mention the "financial industry"? There is a difference between being resilient and being unethical. There are tons of people in all sectors of society that are unethical. Politicians would lead the list....
You know most of this used to be "common sense" . Now we have to spend millions of dollars and ask the computers................
Danny, I am very proud of you! Now just take the extra step and "follow the money" and you'll see who is enriching themselves with tax dollars and hold their feet to the fire that they are doing honest work and not just cashing a check.
Common sense is not so common.
You can have two people go through the same exact "traumatic experience" and one can come out of it no different than the way they went in while the other person is mentally ruined for life. Good luck in figuring out what makes these people like this, "experts".
I suppose one could figure out brain activity when exposed to graphic photos of violence and see which parts of the brain are affected...send them off to war....re-check the people to see who is traumatized worse. Check the data to see if it means anything.
Kind of like only allowing some drugs to be sold by prescription only, because all people are not the same, we are all different individuals so when it comes to medicine the cure has to be tailored to the individual because as you stated about a traumatic situation, two people can take the same dose of medicine and have totally different reactions. That is just the nature of the human animal.
What makes two different people handle a traumatic situation in different ways ? Who knows, could be genetics, upbringing, life experiences, attitude, preparedness, mood... could be anything, but rest assured that everybody reacts to things differently.
I do believe that a major factor in the stress involved in being in a combat situation like Iraq or Afghanistan, or Vietnam for that matter is that the enemy doesn't wear a uniform and hides among the civilian population. I would very well imagine that over a period of time with the enemy looking like civilians that the civilians begin to look like the enemy. After all, the guy shooting at you looks like a civilian, the guy who threw a grenade at you looked like a civilian, the people you shot in the firefight looked like civilians. It's no wonder people in combat like this snap. When the civilians and the enemy both look alike after a while one would begin to think that the civilians are the enemy, at least potentially.
IMO what we should have done in A'stan when we cleared a village is to round the people up and ask for names of the fighters and explain very clearly that if we get no names we will remove the people and level the village so it can't be used against us again. Instead, we cleared a village, asked for names, and when we got no names we left. Next day the enemy is back again until we come back and clear them out again, then leave. This might sound familiar to some Nam vets. You would think the commanders would have enough sense to learn from our past strategy failures.
My son is in Afghanistan and his torment is not from the stresses of war, but from the abuse and harassment by his fellow soldiers. How will the Army fix that?
Are you just making this up or are you telling the truth? Because if you are telling the truth, your son can go to a chaplain or seek help through the chain of command. Many units have an "open door policy" which allows him to go above his chain of command and go right into the leadership....all he'd have to do is inform his chain of command that he'd like to utilize the open door policy for a personal issue.
Some people make themselves targets for abuse by their behaviors, but that doesn't excuse the abuse one bit. I'm just stating a fact.
War causes stress disorders........institute a draft and rotate them out after a single one year tour.......some will come back with problems others will be fine........sending them back repeatedly is causing the increase in problems......Pretending to do a study and promising to give more psychological support and rest breaks will not solve the problem of continual stress.....If you want to maintain a continual war you need to rotate them out completely.......not keep them in till they come home in a box.......
War causes stress disorders"...so does having serious family issues, financial problems, difficulty in coming to grips with one's sexuality, and many other things.
Some people can go to war perpetually and return without being a changed person. Others are completely unable to cope in life anymore... A draft doesn't solve any of that. We have an all-volunteer army that is not short of volunteers. If you want to institute a draft, you probably have ulterior motives.
I don't condone at all what this man did and he will have to answer for it but I'd say, at this point at least, it is clear this wasn't just a killing spree for the sake of killing or blood-lust. Bales snapped and the Army needs to be looking into this fully and rethink some of what they are doing. If we are going to send our men and women to fight then they need to be allowed to do just that. I know we don't want to kill alot of civilians but this is war and that is what happens. The stress from dealing with the two faced "civilians" topped with the fear of IED's ect. and multiple deployments it's amazing more of them don't snap. Sorry but this is a different world and society over there. These people live in medieval times and that is how they think so the pussy footing around and nice guy crap gets nowhere. They want to live like that fine I can respect that, but until they decide to question their beliefs and rise up and join the rest of civilization so be it, we are going to fight you and treat you like you are accustomed too, especially if you are going to stab us in the back every chance you get after we already tried the nice guy approach. Every time the politicians get involved or try to dictate what our soldiers do this crap happens and leads us right into a quagmire. Just like Vietnam did. But hey got to keep the MIC going or else!! Bales will get held responsible as he should but not all the blame can go to him. We need to do a better job of caring for our troops and especially when they leave and come home. If those worthless windbags in Congress get full health care and top notch medical treatment for doing nothing then our men and women coming back home after laying their lives on the line certainly should. One more obvious failure and issue that our government has yet again failed to address. Time to leave this hell hole and get our troops home now. Job not finished according to some well, I don't like it but carpet bombing from north to south on the way out sounds good at this point, leave em nothing.
Thank you to all the men and women in our armed services who fight for us.
It is time
An algorithm to detect the possibility of future violence? What's next... prison sentences for crimes to be committed in the future?
Could it simply be that you've had the same soldiers in harms way for over 10 years?
We ask these "people" to go sit in a meat grinder for years on end, do our dirty work, and wonder why they crack.
I spent one year in Vietnam and was rotated out because we had a draft......I stayed my entire tour and became a free man.........If they had called me to return in a couple of weeks, my second tour would probably have been spent in Canada.......I'm glad that I didn't have to make that choice.....This is the only war where troops don't get to come home after a year of active duty.......Home lives are ruined....relationships lost.....businesses ruined.....and the general public is happy to let the professional soldiers deal with it......and now we are going to study to determine why they are upset and having issues........
Your anecdotal story about Vietnam doesn't apply to everyone. There are anecdotal stories where people fight like hell to stay deployed as many times as possible....even in Vietnam.
However your point about troops staying longer a year is spot-on. It also recognizes the fact that stress often comes from things completely unrelated to their duties overseas but rather their personal lives that are disrupted. I wonder if PTSD is more prevalent in active duty soldiers vs. national guard/army reserve where people have an expectation to serve years of full-time active duty vs. those who expect only to be called in an emergency situation.
Minority report!!!! lets predict when they are taking a poop!!!
Next ...lets predict how these civilians will behave after we turn off their water and electricity so we can jailed them before it happens!!!!!
what he did is a terrible thing no matter why he did it,but i also must say in his defense that being sent on mutiple deployements cannot be good at all for the human mind or spirit. lets bring the troops home soon and end this tragedy.
I miss President Nixon!
Gosh, how lovely. Too bad its too little too late. They certainly aren't ever going to be able to go back and fix what we have already lost now are they? I gave up along time ago hoping for any resolution to any of this. It was certainly not in time to save my husband.
Major Nadel Hasan killed thirteen American soldiers and wounded THIRTY others at Ft. Hood, in broad daylight, in the United States, under the wtachful eye of cameras, with hundreds of witnesses, including dozens of civilian law enforcement officers in November 2009.
He still has never been charged and he is an admitted al Queda operative.
SSgt Bales has already been charged, the Army is hiding the witnesses as quickly as possible, refusing to co-operate with the defense attorney in any way, fabricating evidence as quickly as possible, bribed the victims families within a week and they are ready to go to courts martial as we speak.
Does this seem odd?
Perhaps if they didn't accept just any old psychotic, gang member, drug user, murderer, rapist, etc etc, who needed a job, this wouldn't have happened. - Captain Obvious
They wouldnt have to if they would stop deploying our soldier 4 or 5 times or even more= heartless insanity. Because of these insanely high redeployments few american citizens are willing to join the army for any desire beyond the need for a pay check, which is pitiful. We need people who actually WANT to fight for us rather than getting people who are grudgingly fighting for pay checks.
@ Brian smith - that isn't true. I blame army leadership; an ignorance of needs; and an attitude of "what we don't know can't hurt us."