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Subscribe to RSSDick Cheney has just joined a list of high-profile people, including Steve Jobs, Mickey Mantle, Evil Knievel and David Crosby who, received a transplant and thereby created a controversy. Cheney received a heart on Saturday from an anonymous donor at Inova Fairfax Hospital in Virginia after a 20-month wait. What is controversial about that? Cheney is 71 years old.
He has been through numerous previous operations that indicate he has other serious medical problems. He has only been able to survive due to the implantation of a left-ventricular assist device (LVAD) — a partial artificial heart -- that has kept him going long past the point where his own heart could have kept him alive.
For some patients, it's a bridge until a transplant may be possible. Others, who do not qualify for a transplant, live out the rest of their lives with an LVAD. So despite his age and health problems, how was Cheney able to get a heart while many others wait?
It is concerning that a 71-year-old got a transplant. Many of those who manage to even make the waiting list for hearts die without getting one. More than 3,100 Americans are currently on the national waiting list for a heart transplant. Just over 2,300 heart transplants were performed last year, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing. And 330 people died while waiting.
According to UNOS, 332 people over age 65 received a heart transplant last year. The majority of transplants occur in 50- to 64-year-olds.
Most transplant teams, knowing that hearts are in huge demand, set an informal eligibility limit of 70.
Cheney is not the first person over 70 to get a heart transplant. He is, however, in a small group of people who have gotten one. Why did he?
Cheney has an advantage over others. It is not fame or his political prominence. It is money and top health insurance.
Heart transplants produce bills in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The drugs needed to keep these transplants working cost tens of thousands of dollars every year. Organ donations are sought from the rich and poor alike. But, if you do not have health insurance you are far less likely to be able to get evaluated for a heart transplant much less actually get a transplant.
The timing of Cheney’s transplant is ethically ironic given that the battle over extending health insurance to all Americans reaches the Supreme Court this week.
If the President’s health reform bill is deemed unconstitutional, those who are wealthy or who can easily raise money will continue to have greater access to heart, liver and other forms of transplantation than the uninsured and underinsured.
It is possible that Cheney was the only person waiting for a heart who was a good match in terms of the donor’s size, blood type and other biological and geographical factors. If not, then some tough ethical questions need to be asked.
When all are asked to be organ donors, both rich and poor, shouldn’t each one of us have a fair shot at getting a heart? And in a system in which donor hearts are very scarce, shouldn’t the young, who are more likely to benefit both in terms of survival and years of life added, take precedence over the old?
Let’s hope we get some answers to these tough questions as we watch both Cheney’s recovery and the fate of health care legislation that is intended to minimize the advantages that the rich now have over the poor when it comes to proven life-saving treatments.
Msnbc.com news services contributed to this report.
NBC's chief medical editor Dr. Nancy Snyderman explains why former vice president Dick Cheney received a heart transplant at age 71 when there are many younger people on the donor list and discusses what complications he may face.
Correction: An earlier version of this report incorrectly characterized how patients typically fare after getting a left-ventricular assist device (LVAD). Studies show that many patients improve and experience better quality of life on an LVAD. The device is approved to be used in two ways, as a Bridge-To-Transplant for those who qualify for a transplant and as Destination Therapy for those who do not.
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"Cheney has an advantage over others. It is not fame or his political prominence. It is money and top health insurance. "
That's all you need to read. The rich have access to life. The poor get screwed.
"Cheney too old for transplant?"
No, he just is too evil to get one.
We have a young realative that is being denied. He also has good health insurance. He does not have money or prominance. This is a major problem in our country. The Transplant Teams are strapped as are the families in need. To allow a 71 year old man with many other conditions receive the transplant contradicts the guidelines that the rest of us live with during the same crisis. It is discriminatory to say the least.
Whatever happened to "take me... I'm old!!"
Oh what chivalry! How many young people (or more deserving) were passed over?????
Yet Republicans continue to support repealing a health care law that would assure more equality in this realm, with nothing to replace it.
he insinuation that Mr. Cheney received his new heart because of his "money and top health insurance" is absolutely, totally, 100% false. The only criteria that is required to be met is that the heart was a good match in terms of the donor’s size, blood type and other biological and geographical factors. Other factors also included involve the health of the recepient and how likely it is that he or she will survive the procedure. The United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS) manages the nation's organ transplant system under contract with the Federal Government, so if you want to lay blame at someone's feet, ultimately it lies at the feet of the Federal Government and UNOS. Tudorgurl's comment that "the rich have access to life & the poor get screwed" is based on total ignorance fueled by the insinuations in Dr. Caplan's article. SEE: unos.org & lifegift.org to educate yourself before you spout off about a subject you know nothing about, tudorgurl
Ah yes, money gets top health care & the fame didn't hurt either, I'm sure. My mother was 64 when she was denied a PACEMAKER, never mind a transplant & she died 2 months later. The reason they gave me was her age & poor prognosis for improvement due to past cardiac incidents. Oh yeah, she wasn't rich.
"Why do I think Cheney would have worn a dress to get off the Titanic alive???????????"
Because you're a moron with the intellectual and emotional development of a child.
Any other questions?
Nice guy!
Too old, yes. But rich enough, eh? One more example of the evil that money brings.
@Lemminghunter
"poor trailer park trash supporting filthy rich scum like Cheney!!"
I'm trying to guess which is your category since you've attempted to label me...
He's in the troll category since he joined just to say that.
You may not like it, but the facts of life are that if you have money you can buy things that you otherwise cannot buy if you don't have money. Every teacher and every parent should be teaching their kids this from the get go. Cheney, like most "rich" people worked their butts off to get where they are. They owe no one any apologies. It's their attitude that got them where they are in the first place. If you want something, do what you need to get it. As can be seen from all the jealousy on this site and others, his attitude is a lot more productive than the "I'm entitled to it and I'm entitled to have others pay for it" attitude.
No, the poor aren't getting screwed. The fact is they are already getting a lot more than what they've actually paid for. We live in the the most generous nation in the world and the "poor" in this country are richer than the poor in any other country. In fact, the "poor" in this country would be considered pretty darn rich in other countries.
@Rick Hall-5547786 - while most of what you said is true, some transplant centers (Duke for example) do require you to raise a certain amount of money before you are officially listed for transplant. People with access to money would have a much easier and quicker time doing that.
Yes. Cheney and Mr. Burns. Model citizens they are......
Cheney didn't work his butt off to get where he was, he worked other people's butts off. Haliburton bought and then destroyed other businesses, including American nuclear power industry.
Somebody will die because they were denied that heart. Think about that person. My husband had a cousin who died of a heart problem: his family was not rich. If that young man had lived, he was brilliant, and he would have been a doctor. But he was not given the option to get a transplant, and he died in his early 30s. That is the person we should be thinking about, not Cheney.
But don't worry, it will be a few more years and then Mr. Cheney will be judged for all his evil in this world; nobody is able to avoid that final judgment. For those who don't believe in it, you won't avoid it either.
I think a quote from Krusty the Klown is appropriate: ( In a strangled scream ) "No, I'm too rich to die!!"
Cheney would have died as well.
It seems like people are forgetting that.
I would be willing to bet that Cheney didn't pay a penny for this transplant. I would bet he is covered with the same Insurance the congress gets. And If that wasn't enough then people like Halliburton picked up the rest for the favor's that Cheney did for them ie no bid contracts in the wars.
I think I am second to no one in my criticism of Dick Cheney. However, whenever anyone is down like that...I can only wish a full and speedy recovery. When Cheney is well...then, we can debate him as much as we want.
cheney's been clinically dead for a long time... which kid had to die to resurrect frankenstein ?
on the bright side, it is a lot more difficult to try a criminal if he is dead.
Rick Hall-5547786 -- Cheney was not a good candidate for a transplant, period. I don't have to know a lot about transplants to guess that there are many young people without other health issues who are waiting for a transplant, and find it unlikely that Cheney was the best or only match for that particular organ. Also, there are some donors who direct their organ to a specific person of fame. Now if this was the case, than it would still be due to Cheney's privileged status of being famous.
Before I even learned the operation was for a transplant, I thought how nice for Cheney that he has the money and cadilac insurance to live much longer than he otherwise would. How nice for him and others like him -- the richest 2% -- while the 98% have to deal with rationing because we don't have single-payer health care. And where are the Death Panels now that Obamacare is the law of the land? Teapublicans are so f****d in the head.
To top off this wonderful news, I'm sure Cheney is on the tax payer subsidized health care plan that is so attractive to govt workers. So we end up paying the tab to keep this man alive as well. I don't know if he pulled strings or what for the transplant, but at 71 he should never have been at the top of any list.
I actually think there are two different issues here --- #1 You do have to be at least median wealthy and have health insurance to likely get on the list. It's just "easier." There's no hoops to jump, travel restrictions, etc., when you have access to people and healthcare because of it. Way of our imperfect life -- if you want it, have the attitude to go get it. The question of how many people are on the list are rich, tho hasn't come up.
More importantly, once you're on the list, I think it's anonymous. He was #342 based on all sorts of criteria. The computer kicks out your #, and then later it becomes "oh, it's Dick Cheney". I believe this for two reasons --- altruistic and a realistic one. a) A doctor who studied for 20 years and took a Hippocratic oath, etc., wants to save the best patient -- that's what he does, and that's who's on the transplant board. So, if someone with the same size, blood type, etc., was better, he would have done that.
But if you don't believe that, do you really think that anyone wants to take the bullet when it's discovered (and it will be in the internet age) that procedure wasn't followed? Did Dick Cheney do enough for those folks personally to really warrant those kind of decisions? I don't think so.
When the rich republicans decide there are too many people on the planet what do you think will happen?
I foresee a time in the future when medical care will only be available for the wealthy, when the food supply for the average citizen has been poisoned and turned into genetically modified pink slime, when the poor are sent off to fight one continuing war that has no end, when our life savings is treated like a poker chip by the ultrarich, when our news becomes corporate propaganda, when our homes are stolen by the banks and then demolished to make bigger yards for the wealthy, when millions die of starvation while grain rots in the silos, when every citizen is uneducated, superstitious, misinformed and armed to the teeth. Oh wait, thats happening now.
True Patriot - Cheney was on the list for 20 Months. He does not get on the list unless he is considered by doctors as a good candidate. They only call if they are the best match.
I'm glad you are not my doctor - or the second opinion either.
Would MSNBC even be asking this question if the recipient was Bill Clinton? I didn't think so.
There was an article in the business section yesterday on the topic of government benefits. It clearly showed that most goes to Social Security and Medicare for the elderly, and only a small percent goes to the poor. "Welfare" was ended in the 1990s. Medicaid is also used by the elderly the most along with hospice, and this health care for the poor is being cut as well. The remaining benefits (food stamps, housing assistance) are a very small percent of government benefits, with food stamps used mostly for children.
I'll bet you pay very little taxes thanks to write offs like the $1,000 per child tax break. I pay a higher tax rate because I am single without children, and subsidize public education on top of it. I'll bet you collect or have collected government assistance at some time in your life. Stop complaining about taxes, stop attacking the less fortunate, and STFU.
DB Akron -- You missed the point of my post, as usual. Don't be concerned about me being a doctor. It's the Death Panels in "Obamacare" that would kill Cheney! And NO, there is no way anyone can argue that Cheney, at his age and in such poor health, was a good candidate for a transplant. Come on!
Elizabeth - prove that "somebody will die because they were denied that heart." Really? Show me that there was someone on the list who was a better physiological match, a better geographic match, had a better chance of surviving than Cheney.
I'm no Cheney fan. But I really have a hard time with people who make statements with no facts to back them up.
I wish him well and hope he recovers quickly.
Bill Clinton wasn't Satan and Dick Cheney is!!
And I am sure Fox would be having a big enough hissy fit to drown out the rest of the news if Clinton got one, hell if President Obama needed one at this age the GOP would try to block it.
Would this question need to be asked? I don't think so. Aside from Bill Clinton working hard to improve his health with diet and exercise while continuing to do good work for others through his initiatives (what has Cheney been doing for the betterment of this world?), he probably sees the world from a perspective of fairness, justice, kindness, and will depart this Earth more graciously. But then that is the difference between the two Parties, isn't it?
Suze the Muze -- I don't wish bad things for anyone, including Cheney. However, the debate about whether the rich have better access to better health care compared to those not so well off, come on, of course they do. The same goes for legal defense, and on and on.
"Why do I think Cheney would have worn a dress to get off the Titanic alive???????????"
Why not? He scheduled his children to avoid serving in VietNam. (While forcing thousands of others to die there in his place.)
hardly truepatriot: Typical lib. You assume things that you know not what you are talking about. If someone disagrees with you, instead of logically debating them you tell them to shut up. That is the typical lib tactic. You know nothing about me so don't make stupid assumptions. As for the your pointing out the unfairness of the tax code because you are punished for not being married and not having kids, you sound conservative with that. There's a reason that the "flat tax" makes sense. It takes the favoritism out of it. I've yet to figure out why, in effect, the taxpayers should support those who choose to get married, have kids, buy a home, make charitable donations, etc.......
Your response to Mike shows your bias and ignorance. First of all, living a"healthy (whatever that is) lifestile) doesn't guarantee good health. The question was legit and your answer proved his point. As for the "good" that he's done, you must not be a woman. Just ask Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, et. al. about his kindness and justice. As you point out, there is a difference between the parties. The repubs sided with the women, the dems sided with the bully. Kind of the same with regards to blacks. The repubs sided with the blacks and were the main reason the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. The dems, led by Robert Byrd, George Wallace, Lester Maddox, etc. fought against equal rights for blacks. But, then again, as you say, "that is the difference between the two parties."
Is Cheney to old for a heart transplant ? .......... Of course not, Satan doesn't get old.
Witch, I think you are trying to re-write a little history bubba.... Reps side with WOMEN??? Oh really???? Is that what the whole contraceptive fiasco was about? Your support for women? Whey is it women favor dems right now over reps? As for your rediculous point about Paula and Bill doing something good for the country, GROW UP. If you discounted every thing a pol did because he made a stupid mistake, then lord help us. Guess that leave Newtie off the list as well... and the list is LONG for both parties. You chose to go back 50 years to point out dems in the south were against the CRA, but ask any minority NOW who they trust and they pick dems by a huge majority.
Finally as a good lib and dem, I do NOT believe we should necessarily tax the wealthy at a higher rate. I DO think they need to pay FULL taxes on ALL income. This cap gains and deferred tax is a sham. They play the game to get most of their income under these catagories and then pay 15% or less. Just look up hedge fund income and you will see it is all a lie. They aren't using their own money to risk, yet they are allowed to treat it as such.
Wonder how they found one cold enough to work in him!?!?!
When my late husband was put on the list for a heart transplant he was told that at 52 he just made the age cutoff. Granted that was 9 yrs ago but while there have been changes to qualifying I'll bet that 71 isn't one of the ages the average person could be and qualify for a transplant.
wives fan: I'm not sure what "contraceptive fiasco" you are talking about. It's been a contrived issue put forth by the libs. The fact is that none of these issues exist in a vacuum. Contraceptives weren't even part of the political discussion until the dems decided to make it an issue. Personally, I think they've failed miserably at it too. The dems position on contraceptives is pretty much the same as all of their "issues." Free contraceptives for all! Free healthcare for all! If you don't have it you shouldn't be responsible for getting it, it should be given to you. The problem is that the underlying basis of the premise is false. Nothing is free. On every issue of the economy the dems, in their efforts to equalize everybody, end up destroying everything that works. The housing crisis that brought the economy down towards the end of 2008 was a result of the sub-prime loan crisis. This resulted because the libs wanted everyone to own a home and it was "unfair" that the poor couldn't own one, so lending was made available to everyone without regard to standard lending procedures. Even dumb 'ol Bush sounded the alarm 6 years before the crisis, but he was accused of being a dumb racist and ignored. Turns out he was right. So, all the "benefits" that went to the poor put the country in a crisis. And, here is the important point, who suffered the most when the economy went south? You got it, women and minorities.
Back to the contraceptive fiasco, what fiasco? The only issue brought up was whether the Catholic Church should be required to provide contraceptives to their employees. Obama and the libs said yes. So, it is obvious that libs think that a religion has no rights to have their religious beliefs. The fact is that no one worked for the Church that didn't want to work for them. No one was denied contraceptives from some other source because they worked for them. No one was denied the right to purchase contraceptives because of they worked for them. So, what "crisis?"
Doesn't everyone find it ironic that people who insult Mr. Cheney and call him name and make fun of him don't have their comments collapsed by the group, but the those who defend him do?
If we switched this to Bill Cosby, or Bill Clinton for that matter, or Jimmy Carter, would you lefties here be so outraged? Would this article even exist?
Journalistically this article has nothing - no research, it spoke with no one involved, and no one at UNOS. How the F does this person writing this article know anything about organ transplantation. We are given lots of conclusions and lots of speculation, but zero facts, oh, and the opinion of a 'bioethicist' who has nothing to do with this transplant. Ok then - a DECENT journalist [who do not exist btw any longer] would have have researched these important facts before writing a completely one-sided article.
President Obama just this month bemoaned the lack of civility, the press reported about how Conservatives are all evil people who want to take contraception away when that is simply not true [another poorly researched falsehood being masqueraded as fact] and our President asked us all to not use words of mass destruction against each other.
And here we have commenters wishing someone dead. How kind. How liberal. How caring. Shame on you all.
I keep reading "transplant." Shouldn't it read "implant." Transplant means you needed to have one to start with. Just sayin'.
And yes, he was too old. Neither my father or grandfather, who worked (and worked hard) their whole lives, never made it to 70. I believe somewhere it was stated that a man (probably the Christian Bible) is given three score and ten years to live (anything beyond that is gravy). That's about right. Some live to be much older, but once we get to 70, we realize our mortality will catch up with us much sooner, than later.
I'm not going say that one person deserves an organ more than another, but I would like to think that those who have much more opportunity to use that organ for a longer time, should be considered first.
Doctors won't even give old people knee and hip replacements; how does Cheney rate a heart given his advanced age and health condition? How many of you really believe that Blue Cross Blue Shield would acvtually approve a heart transplant for you if you were any age?
I won't be donating any organs if they go to the likes of Dick Cheney. I don't think someone who lies, tortures, and kills people deserves the gift of life.
Rick.. if you think money had nothing to do with this.. you're nuts... Quick... poor black gun in Alabama... 25 years old... no money.. needs heart transplant.... do you even remotely think that he would have gotten to this stage in treatment? Get a life..... never going to happen... and at 71... it's time to say "bye.. bye"....
Sadly the rich rule the world and those that profess to be there for the less fortunate...the poor can only pretend to have a voice. I'm an organ donor however much like Blue, I tend to think twice if any of my organs are going to go to rich schmucks that jump the line over us common folk.
In my opinion, I don't believe 71 is too old, people who are older are getting heart surgery everyday. What I do find disturbing is his only being on the list for 20 months, in some cases years less than 'regular' people, and his having such a prolonged history fo severe heart disease. In my experience, and I do have some, people with his health problems are considered to 'high risk' for transplant, the recovery rate is LOW. I guess having unlimited health coverage, paid for by taxpayers, moves you up the list, also the money to cover any addditional expenses. Too bad for the poor schmucks who don't have the no-limit healtcare our political leaders enjoy. The same leaders who are multi-millionaires and could afford their own coverage... like, maybe, Dick? If it could be proven that someone who was a better candidate was passed over I would march on his hospital room.
Tell me Tea Party supporters and apologists for Dick, how do you defend his actions, defend your actions receiving subsidized healthcare when A) many of you could easily afford private insurance, B) don't need social security C) many of you never paid a dime into medicare/social security. It's because you are entitled? This surgery and the defense of his jump in line scream the hypocracy of the right and it's disregard for those who are most vulnerable. sheesh
Forget jumping the waiting list... If this was any other person, he would not have qualified for this heart. One has to go through a whole transplant evaluation. With his history of 5 heart attacks, CAD, LVAD device, pacemaker, bypass surgery in 1988, as well as two subsequent angioplasties he NEVER would have been a candidate for a transplant. This is truly a disgusting brazen abuse of power. But wasn't he always that way?
Let's face it, Cheney really really needed a heart. He never had one before!
I'm sure he received his heart because of his brave service in our armed services.
Oh. What? Oh, never mind. He avoided service.
Sorry.
Maybe the Obamacare death panels will solve the problem of undesirable older people getting medical care.
zapper..
"And yes, he was too old. Neither my father or grandfather, who worked (and worked hard) their whole lives, never made it to 70. I believe somewhere it was stated that a man (probably the Christian Bible) is given three score and ten years to live (anything beyond that is gravy). That's about right. Some live to be much older, but once we get to 70, we realize our mortality will catch up with us much sooner, than later.
I'm not going say that one person deserves an organ more than another, but I would like to think that those who have much more opportunity to use that organ for a longer time, should be considered first."
I have no idea how old you are, but with Obamacare when you reach 70ish you will no longer have an opportunity for any life saving medical treatment, so that a younger person can have the longer life. Let us know how that works for ya!!! Remember, if the shoe fits........
Do you think this could be a change of heart for Dick?
Nah.....
Crispy, Obamacare will deny ANY older person getting life saving treatment. This will include you and your family.....
"Doesn't everyone find it ironic that people who insult Mr. Cheney and call him name and make fun of him don't have their comments collapsed by the group, but the those who defend him do?"
No, some of us know what 'ironic' means. We don't find this ironic at all.
To quote Clint Eastwood, "Deserves got nothing to do with it."
Some can afford to prolong life which makes it elitist at best, morally wrong at worst. I'd have rather someone much younger who may make a positive impact to society get one. But I know that's not how the world works.
@recyclecongress
You are actually correct, although I can't help but feel that the liberals that created it will find a loophole for themselves.
It's amazing how people don't hesitate to judge whether someone else is worthy of receiving medical treatment or not.
People in this thread basically saying that because he is 71, he should have been allowed to die. I wonder if you'll have the same opinion at 71?
Darth Cheney is just taking advantage of a system he helped create, just as everyone else like him has done and will continue to do until the electorate WAKES UP.
You're likely to find he's given some astronomical donation to wherever he had the surgery for a new wing or something. Don't for a moment imagine there isn't tremendous cronyism amoungst these people- the rich and tasteless.
And to answer the question- no he is not. In fact if I had my way we wouldln't have taken him to the hospital that first heart attach he had during his regime. We would have let him go softly into the night and been a much better country today for it.
At 71 he is not eligible, that's the point and yet he somehow moves ahead of everyone that is and gets a heart...
Welcome to the GOP's New World Order.
I wasn't aware he had a heart....
Isn't this "unnatural" and aren't people in his party always raling about "unnatural" things. Why did he get a pass?
Cheney doesn't need health insurance to cover a transplant...he's got so much war mongering money over the last decade, he could buy live donors where its legal.
I'm not medically educated enough to know if Cheney should or should not have gotten a transplant, but I do know that it is clear that he and others got them because of the quality of their insurance which is reflective of the insurance imbalance in our society which obviously favors the wealthy at the clear cost of the poor. They are not willing to give out health insurance to those with less money, but they are willing to take their organs.
I'm taking my name off the donor rolls until they balance health insurance so that everyone has access to these organ donations.
crisp and recyclecongress::: The both of you are crazy as bedbugs. There is NO SUCH THING as death panels. The only time anything resembling that was brought up was when the republithugs had the stupid idea to get rid of Medicare-- in that case, when you got to be 65 years old and weren't rich biches you would be thrown aside and forgotten. Then when you died, you'd be left there to rot.
They don't toss old or infirm horses aside to die. They are treated better than the republithugs want to treat old humans.
R H I P
Not too old, just too much of a war criminal worshipped by fake conservatives.
Seventy one, three score years and eleven, a year more than the Biblical lifespan and Mr. Cheney gets a new heart. I am not a fan but I wish him all the best. I hope the new heart pump some kindness into him.
recycle congress: I'm creeping up on that 70 mark right now. I've got about a decade. And when I get there, if I get there, I'm not going to knock out someone else who is much younger and stronger than me, who needs an organ more. If I should need one, and it's available to me, and I'm not knocking someone else out that has more of a "chance," then heck, yeah. I'm pushing 60 right now, and if I needed to make such a decision, today, I'd let someone else younger and with more of future than me, go to top of my list. Don't get me wrong, I want to last as long as I can. However, there comes a time when the greater good can be served by standing aside for someone else in more need.
I think what I've got going for me is that I don't fear death and dying. We all do it. Some sooner, some later. I think most of us prefer later. But should my time come this very hour, I'm ready. For some, I feel that they have much more to fear after death, and that's why they do everything to press toward some sort of impossible immortality.
For some, fear is their driving force; mine is peace.
tick-tock tick-tock..a heart only works if god wants it to work..in this guy..odds are better hitting the $356 million mega lottery this Tuesday..then this heart lasting 356 days!
Cheney is just prolonging the inevitable...he'll spend his last dime to stay alive...but it's not enough to overcome the negative karma he incurred when he decided to use his influence for financial gain. Sadly or happily, there is a lot of ill-will towards him, and all the money in the world can't fight that...where's my voodoo doll?
I find it funny that there are those that are complaining about Cheney receiving benefits that they have speculated are a result of government benefits. Yes, he was the Vice President of the U.S. Did Congress provide that there is life-long benefits as a result? Most likely. But, why do the libs complain? After all, you are the ones who think that government should make the decisions. Of course, Cheney, through his own work ethics, could afford to pay for it cash out of pocket. But, libs want everyone to be part of the full benefits government provided benefits. So, why the complaints? Do you really think that the people who you think are going to be better enabled to make decisions about your healthcare are stupid enough to not put provisions in there that will take care of them first? Apparently so.
Ive seen a few misconceptions on this thread, and I have some experience in the area, so heres my 2 cents...
1) age
certainly older people are generally looked at more unfavorably when deciding on transplants. But you need to stop thinking of age in chronologic terms, and more physiologic terms. I've seen 50 year olds close to death, and 90 year olds that are more functional than people half their age. I recently did a heart cath on a 92 year old lady. Yes cheney was sick...from his heart. Thats why he needed a transplant. But if he had healthy lungs, kidneys, and no comorbidities, he'd be a decent candidate. ONe more thing is that older people have less aggressive immune systems, which is beneficial for transplant
2) 20 months
This is actually a fair amount of time for someone in his situation to be on the list. He was probably status 1B for transplant, which is the 2nd highest priority. He had an LVAD, which is generally, though not always, considered a bridge to transplant. While the devices are very good nowadays, they are still not proven to be as long lasting as heart transplants (about 12 years on average)
Did he get a transplant because he was rich and famous? Maybe--he coulda been on the list in multiple regions. Thats allowed as long as you can demonstrate an ability to reach the transplant center within 4 hours--something the very rich can do. Unfair? Maybe. But if I had the means I think it would be very difficult to avoid doing the same thing. Its easy to say you wouldn't--harder to do
I asked a doctor. At his age and with his bad medical history, Cheney may have bought himself about five more years of life.
Hope he uses his remaining years reevaluating his questionable decisions ...like signing off on torture.
And he may be rich, but I don't see any evidence anyone like him can buy a, "stairway to heaven," after he breathes his last.
rradiko,
your doctor friend is probably wrong. And without knowing cheney's full medical history and lab results, any guess like that is pure conjecture...
I asked a dumbass, and he gave me your name,
Yea, that evil ole Cheney, scumbag of the earth for putting together that Seal Team 6. And Cheney was one of those elitist liberal politicians that opted to keep their lofty Public Paid For fabulous healthcare benefits intact and exactly the same as it use to be, while dumping Obamacare on the rest of us unfortunate non-politico type Americans...... or was that Nancy, Harry and Obama.... can't remember... someone please help me out here.
And on the subject of RICH IS EVIL, please tell me, is Obama rich? Did he earn it or was it given to him?
Is being a Career Politician Evil... or do you think these politicians choose it as a career because they care for the everyday Joe American.
His first heart was rejecting this pos at an early age. We can only hope this one will do the same as well and reject him. The thought that this man stole a heart from a more deserving candidate just makes me sick to my stomach.
Rot in Hell Cheney and Bush.
TruePatriot
"There was an article in the business section yesterday on the topic of government benefits. It clearly showed that most goes to Social Security and Medicare for the elderly, and only a small percent goes to the poor."
Now I understand! Only rich republicans get old. My, life long democratic mother, who is 92 and whose only income is $12,000 a year from Social Security might not understand though. She has collected much from the government than she put in.
wow to chime in my two cents, Cheney has been around awhile. He was around and helped vietnam start under false pretences, he was around and helped the iraq war start under false pretences.
Not surprising he got a transplant due to his fright of the afterlife and his affluence and wealth in life.
Truth is Cheney will face the afterlife and he got a lot on his shoulders to explain, if I was him I would be scared.
Reposting this from later in the conversation in hopes that SOMEONE will read it and understand!
I keep reading these comments hoping to hear someone speak up that has accurate knowledge about how the transplant system works. I will go ahead and comment because i haven't seen anyone step up....
I am a heart transplant coordinator - a RN who coordinates the care of those trying to get on the heart transplant list, the transplant itself, and the care of those who receive transplants for the rest of their life. A few points to make:
- Finances do play a role, but not to the extent you think. Medicare and Medicaid (in my state) pay for transplants. So those who are less fortunate actually end up paying less out of pocket than most privately insured patients. Sadly, you do need insurance. Not so much for the actual procedure, but you need some way to pay for the thousands of dollars worth of medication you will need to take for the rest of your life. Medicare/Medicaid do a very good job at covering most of these costs for patients.
- Each transplant center has their own criteria to get on the list. While some smaller centers may not consider anyone over the age of 65-70, larger centers have and do consider older recipients, if they are in good medical condition outside of their heart disease. I have heard of patients as old as 75-76 being transplanted. Often times donors who are not considered "pristine" for younger recipients, are considered for these older recipients.
- The wait list is broken down into 3 tiers based on the acuity of the recipients illness. The 1st tier are the very ill, those hospitalized on a ventilator, multiple IV medications to help the heart, or an LVAD (for 30 days only). A LVAD patient who does not get a transplant in their allotted 30 days will drop down to a 1B. This is likely where Cheney was when he was transplanted. This means that when a donor was identified, it was offered to all blood group compatible 1A patients in the donor's local area (often times the entire state), then is offered to 1A patients in a 500 mile radius. It then goes back and forth between local and 500 mile radius for each successive level (1A, 1B, 2). This heart likely went through MANY potential recipients and was deemed unsuitable for whatever reason before it made it to Cheney.
-Patients are NOT identified by name on the wait list, except to the center that the patient belongs to. When I look at a list when I have a patient being offered an organ, I see *************** in the name field. There is no possible way that anyone could see that this is a VIP.
-Politics aside (as they must be when considering this ethical question) I disagree that 71 is too old in any circumstance to transplant. I have many patients 68 and older that have done very well post transplant, even better than many of my younger recipients. Younger patients tend to take life for granted and are much more likely (in my experience) to stop their meds, not come for appointments, and generally not take care of themselves. The older patients are mature enough to understand what needs to be done to maintain their newly found good health. The decision to transplant an older patient needs to be done on a case by case basis to determine if that patient has a decent chance to live another 10+ years.
-Cheney waited 20 months for a transplant. This is a VERY long time to wait for a heart, especially with an LVAD. In my area LVAD patients wait anywhere from a few days to a year depending on their blood type. Anyone who thinks that he was "rushed to the front of the line" is just plain wrong.
I must disagree with the author on the point that most LVAD patients do not get a transplant. In my center, the majority of our patients are actually LVAD patients who go on to get a transplant. Sometimes LVAD patients develop other conditions that make them ineligible for a transplant, or decide that they don't want a transplant after all. But to make the generalization that all LVAD patients eventually die without a transplant is erroneous. The waitlist mortality today is far lower than it was in the past with LVAD's to thank.
I hope this shed some light on a very important topic. Everyone needs to check their facts before spreading such misinformation about organ donation/transplantation. And to all the detractors, I wish you could meet my patients as well as their families. This is a truly life changing event for them, as well as the donor families.
In my next life I'm coming back as part of the 1%ers. Being a member of the middle class and working for 40 years is way overrated.
Money talks, bullsh..t walks !
Realist-1226632 -- It's not clear the point you're trying to make, but yes, most of the elderly on Social Security are also poor. However, that is relative. The elderly before SS were living in destitute poverty, and during this recession the elderly have done well compared to many. My mother on Social Security is much better off than my niece who is a single working mother, for example.
And of course people collect more from SS than they contribute, especially if they live a long time. Social Security is a pooled system like insurance, which has allowed people to collect more than they would from a savings account or what have you.
We need to increase the cap on FICA with-holdings and means test to strengthen the program for the future. But raising the age is absurd. Most people won't be able to work until age 65 let alone 70. That's just crazy talk. Now about Cheney, we need Medicare for all. Have a heart for everyone.
Duphas - You do realize of course that Dick Cheney had nothing to do with the establishment of Seal Team 6 right? Actually, that sentence should end in a period because that is a rhetorical question.
Hmmm... Mr. Cheney has had his fingers in many things, more than once in some cases. Plus, it is no secret that he was the "puppet master" during the last Bush Administration.
I wonder what would happen if all of us were put into the same circumstances. Chances are, none, or very few of us, would have the medical plan or the $,$$$,$$$ to pay for such an operation. On the other hand, Mr. Cheney is very wealthy, and can afford almost anything.
I am a Republican, one who is not a fan of Dick Cheney. I have always believed that he is an evil person.
However, I do have some compassion, and want to wish Mr. Cheney better health and a speedy recovery.
I have read that many people who have surgery, sometimes even minor surgery, are at risk for pulmonary embolisms, and, possibly, "TIAs" - Transient Ischemic Attacks. Those are petite strokes, that could be fatal in some cases.
No doubt, we have not heard the last about Mr. Cheney 's health problems.
This operation gives Mr. Cheney the proverbial "second chance." It will be interesting to see if he uses his remaining time wisely, and in a caring way toward helping other people who are less fortunate; or, if he just continues being Dick Cheney...
Another dumb ass article that evades the point entirely. 3300 hear transplants right??????
40,000 die in car accidents! Another 20,000 die traumatic deaths and how many accidental deaths? And not enough donors???????
This article should have been about raising awareness to become donors!!!! Not that one man who was vice president and automatically went to the top of the list because of insurance. There are probably 100,000 hearts out there in the U.S. that can be donated!! And there is no mechanism to get them when needed!
A law that if a person dies or is in an irreversible coma, brain dead, then his/her organs can be harvested! COME ON PEOPLE, THE NEXT ONE COULD BE YOU OR A RELATIVE!
Dictionary72... You missed one of the main points which was that unless you are able to afford the best insurance it doesn't matter how many donor hearts are available. Only the best insurance covers or in some cases Medicare/medicaid.
As I said... I won't be a donor until universal healthcare is approved.
stmiller,
Then you are saying that medicare is one of the best insurance systems out there, because Cheney is on medicare.
Cheney actually had a heart????
Jonathan... As my comment says..."or in some cases Medicare/Medicaid".
Of course he didn't. It was paid for by the US taxpayers. I think some would call that welfare.
Mayla-718053--I understand that you are an RN who coordinates heart transplants. I expect that in most cases, your comments are correct.
However, if you are foolish enough to think that there is not someone who can very easily manipulate the data that you are looking at (especially given that fact that you don't see names), well--there you have it. Computers can be easily manipulated--data can be easily manipulated--a person can be sent to the top of a list very easily (especially if that person is on a list at virtually every major hospital in the nation).
At some point, it will come out what the hospital administrator who had access to the computer database did to massage the data. That hospital administrator (who I am quite sure already got more than enough of a gratuity to ensure his/her own old age) will be investigated, castigated, and might even get a brief term in a country-club type prison (a private prison, with the stay paid for by someone who prefers to remain nameless).
The absurdly wealthy do not have to do their own dirty work--they just have to let it be known that such dirty work will be well compensated and they just have to use intermediaries to arrange things. I imagine that this was the first organ that was reasonably compatible with the VP and which was open to manipulation by someone. Perhaps we will get lucky and someone will feel badly enough for the individual who got rooked out of the heart s/he should have gotten and will donate a heart that might not otherwise have been donated.
Personally, I just took myself off all donor lists. If the donor lists are this easily manipulable by the incredibly wealthy--and this article and you just admitted that donor lists are manipulable--they don't need my working class heart. The ultra-rich can donate to one another from now on--mine's off the list. Permanently. Chew on that one for a while and realize that most transplants probably do not come from the ultra wealthy but from the working class that is more community-minded. No, I don't have a particular desire to extend the life of someone who is ultra-wealthy. Unless I can stipulate who gets my heart--a working class person, someone who is relatively young, who has a young child and might otherwise die soon--forget it. Have a fun time un-doing this damage.
being too old is one of the many reasons Mr. Cheney should have been disqualified as a heart transplant recipient.........but excellent health insurance, the ability to write a huge check and friends in all the right places certainly seems to have leveled the field for him.........
bet there are a lot of other, younger, poorer, less insured folks with non influential friends who will die because they could not level the field for themselves.......
gotta love America.........we really got heart......if you got the money.
SOLD!!!!!...to the highest bidder!
Yes.. money helps by increasing access to different regions. But having actually worked in transplants I learned that a vast majority of those getting a solid organ transplant at public hospitals are disabled and on disability. This means they qualify for medicare and medicaid!
If you are poor and the disease has progressed far enough that you can't work then there is no reason with just a bit of effort you can't qualify for the government to pay for your transplant. Most public hospitals have programs/people who will even help you complete the paperwork. Some places you have to ask and qualifying for disability can require hiring a lawyer to get approved (mostly because of the vast number of people are too lazy to work applying). It can take time to qualify so apply ASAP.
I've also heard NUMEROUS times how someone was "rejected" in another state because they couldn't come up with the money, only to find out that they were rejected because they didn't follow recommendations like STOP DRINKING alcohol or using drugs. Yes, most transplant units test for illegal drugs and marijuana counts!
As far as manipulating data to improve one's spot on the list, yes it can be done but it's not as common as many think. The biggest method of manipulation of the system comes in knowing what region organs are more available and being listed in many regions. That's easier for the wealthy.
Also FYI - The majority of transplants do not go to the wealthy but go to average citizens. Please talk with your family about organ donation, as they are the ones who ultimately make the decision. Even if you put organ donor on your drivers license if the family strongly doesn't want to donate your organs it will not happen. Just like your family can decide to donate your organs even if you haven't specified your wishes.
yep - anyone supporting Cheney or opposing the incredibly unfair and uncharitable comments gets their comment 'collapsed,' which is nothing more than liberals wanting to suppress the speech of conservatives - how American. How inclusive. Inclusive and tolerance only counts when you agree with a liberal.
Dan, it is quit clear you are not to bright. Learn how to write complete sentences and use spell check. Seems you are a perfect example of the far left uneducated people who do nothing to improve themselves and complain that successful folks, such as Cheney, are treated differently than you. LOL. Vote for BO, He will take care of you.
Dan.. Many places do NOT place specific age cutoffs, as such can lead to lawsuits. Who is to say if a 70yr old will have any less good quality or length of life than say a 40 year old. A handful of places will include age as a "factor" in the decision making process but most go by health and other factors I mentioned previously.
Bean,
Wow. The conspiracy theories abound. I can't even begin to tell you how many hundreds of people would need to be involved to pull off what you think occurred. I am not going to argue with someone who obviously has a loose grip on reality, but what I can tell you is that every 3 years UNOS (United Network of Organ Sharing) and CMS (Centers for Medicare Services) audit all transplant centers and OPO's. There are a million regulations that we have to abide by to ensure that people are getting listed correctly for transplant and once listed, data is sufficient to support their status on the list.
If I enter 1 wrong point of data that cannot be confirmed by hard copies of results, echo films, diagnostic testing, our transplant center is faulted, and can be shut down completely. No hospital administrator is going to 1. have the ability to do this and "change" all the hard data that goes along with what is entered into the computer and 2. risk shutting down a very integral part of that hospital's budget income.
Most of our transplant patients, as I said earlier, are indeed what you probably refer to as "working class", those on medicare or medicaid. It's a shame that someone may not have a chance at life since you chose to take your "working class" heart off the donor list based on a delusion that you have about how Cheney got his heart. The FACT is that you have no evidence to support your theory.
Cheney owes no one an apology for wanting to live.
Cheney owes the people who wanted to live an apology!!
(Is he too old for a War Crimes trial or water boarding???)
Exactly. Don't hate the player hate the game. Secondly Rush, People need to stop with the whole war crimes stuff. If there was enough evidence to bring to trial Obama would had made sure it happened. He and GWB will not be charged with War crimes. Get over it.
He played outside the rules of the game. He was given the transplant while having conditions that are used to deny others. We call that discrimination.
Yes, keep him alive for a War Crimes trial or water boarding his old shriveled carcass
I agree that Cheney doesn't owe any apologies. Nobody wants to die and his family doesn't want him to die. And he should also not make any apologies for being successful and rich enough to have access to anything he wants.
The point of the article is that many people with his same health issues also want to live, but they are not millionaires and lack health insurance, so they just end up dying -- and many of them are young. So, the article is not criticizing Cheney directly, but it is criticizing a system which allows those of means to enjoy a longer life simply because they have money. Does being impoverished mean that your life is less valuable?
So don't many others want to live and are just as deserving,not less so just because they don't have the $!
A lack of evidence is not always what prevents a trial. In this instance it seems doubtless that the reason is politics. Even Ricky Sanctimonious knows who the President serves.
"Darth Vader" / shoot them in the face duck hunting Cheney was not a viable candidate. Enough said.
For a bunch of damn liberals, you people sure sound a lot like a vindictive death panel. You suck.
Well, at least he's alive for a war crimes trial. But I've been planning his Deaths Day Party for so long. Darn!
@Terry-753375
Cheney sucks big time! Where were the "let em die"s when Cheney finally wanted a heart??? Huh Huh Huh????? Amazing bunch of people: poor trailer park trash supporting filthy rich scum like Cheney!! Simply amazing!!!!
You're drawing a pretty arbitrary distinction at heart transplants. Those of sufficient means have lots of advantages over those without. They can afford to eat healthier to begin with for one. And say what you will about money not buying happiness but many rich and well-adjusted individuals enjoy a basic quality of life that the poor cannot afford, leading to much lower stress and greater happiness.
We live in a capitalist democratic republic. If you want to argue for a strict socialist or even communist state, that's a fair argument (not one I agree with), but it's pretty slimy to pick and choose tiny heart-wrenching battles to slip the country in that direction without having a direct debate about it. Socializing medicine is just one of many steps we've taken in the long march towards socialism that started in the days of FDR.
I do feel for those that don't make it through the transplant list, but no more than I feel for anyone else who suffers from poor circumstance in this country. It's still not enough to make me believe in a system that rewards complacency while failing to reward hard work and innovation.
I would be willing to give my heart transplant to anyone younger than me no matter my age.
As long as harvesting remains respectful, regulated, medically adept, and fairly and correctly matched, it seems only right that the youngest have the first shots at a second chance at life!
What's really sad about this is when this puke does die, we, the taxpayers will pay for a grand funeral for him. My hope is, if there is a Christian Hell, that Cheney will find himself in it before his body is cold.
Cheney owes the people who wanted to live an apology!!
(Is he too old for a War Crimes trial or water boarding???)
Sean...no one was denied.
This organ was most likely offered to upwards of 20+ transplant centers, many of which may not have even had a likely match. The organ was then given to the first center (not patient) who said, "Yes, we have a recipient who matches that organ and we will take it."
No one was told they couldn't have it.
I don't buy that for a second
Sean, are only people who benefit your society worthy of life to you?
@Thebigbadwolf - Don't hat the player, hate the game? This player is the game! He and his GOP cohorts are trying desperately to keep the status quo in healthcare where the rich get what they want (not necessarily what they need) because they have deep pockets.
As for your comment on war crimes - what they are guilty of can only be tried in the World Court, not in any US court, as they ordered conduct that violated the Geneva Convention and other globally accepted terms of engagement and conduct in military conflict.
This discussion about major surgical operations and age brings up - for me - an interesting (and important) question. I had my aortic valve replaced at age 65. I had to wait until Medicare kicked in, so that what became my secondary insurance would pick up the 20% co-pay. My valve was damaged by undiagnosed, asymptomatic, strep. The valve's expected life is about 15 years. Assuming I live until it wears out, and assuming that I'm healthy (read - strong) enough to survive the surgery, and assuming that people in my blood line tend to live long lives, should I be allowed to receive a replacement valve (which, incidentally was made from bovine [cow] pericardial membrane tissue)?
Dear Canada et al::: And on what do you base your knowledge? You are assuming something, and you know what assume means don't you.
Next time, engage your brain before you engage your fingers and type something that you don't know a dam thing about.
The way you speak about something you don't know a dam thing about, I would guess that your brain isn't between your ears.
Sean, are you saying we should prevent contraception?
Love it or leave it! Go somewhere else if you can't afford a heart transplant... And stay there!
Fred,
absolutely you should get a replacement valve! By the time you need one, percutaneous valves should be perfected and I suspect you may not even need repeat open heart surgery--a simpler catheterization will be able to deliever your valve
correct , Cheney owes no apology for wanting to live, but he does owe apologies to those who died in both vietnam and iraq due to lies and twisting of facts he orchestrated. Those souls are waiting for him on the other side.
Our life is limited, and as we all, we meet our maker and face the life we lived.
GL Cheney, may the souls you condemned treat you uhmm well...........
It's more than a bit ironic that MSNBC points out that health care "Reform" is supposed to close the gap between the rich and the poor but completely fails to point out that Mr. Cheney is the beneficiary of the federal government's health care plan that will be totally unaffected by said "Reform". In other words he's got better health care now because he was a federal employee and after we spend hundreds of billions he still will.
For me, it's quite disturbing that people support this pos Cheney. He and Bush has killed too many people and Cheney should not have been given a heart transplant. It should have gone to a much younger person that is more deserving.
I've heard stories of people receiving an organ transplant then developing feelings or cravings such as were part of the donor's character. I don't know if there is any scientific basis for this, but if it's possible, I can only hope that Cheney's new heart came from a kind and loving person. If so, it's gone to where it might do the greatest amount of good.
Cheney has put a high value on his life.
He should have placed that same high value on the lives of all the military service women and men that he sent off in wars.
Have we really become so sick as a society that we think this way. That we would deny Hope and life to a fellow human being.. Remember we all, poor, rich, white, black, Dem., or Rep. and we all will answer for what we have done, not for someone elses choices..
pastorkirby,
That attitude works REALLY well in Arizona:
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/03/withholding-liver-transplants-medicaid-recipients-arizona.html
if it was Carter or Clinton instead of Cheney, these hypocrites would be cheering.
mrwarmth, can't believe any normal person would cheer for Carter, not even the ignorant left.
and Cheney killed thousands
And so did FDR, using your logic. The Japanese killed less people in the attack on Pearl Harbor than the Muslims killed that attacked the US and we entered WWII and lost almost 400,000 Americans killed in action. At least the Japanese were honorable enough to attack a military target, unlike the civilian target these POS Muslims attacked. Bush and Cheney did what needed to be done, as far as Afghanistan is concerned, the mistake was not getting the hell out when the enemy was defeated. We should never get into nation building. We probably should not have messed with Saddam though.
Terry-753375
W. Bush and Cheney are American Nazis. Most have NO respect for them, only CONTEMPT!!
Sean can we correctly assume you have a problem with comprehension? While i do not agree with 99% of anything bush did, I do think Afghanistan is where we should have concentraited, nowhere in terry's statment does he compaire Hussien with hitler, he does state
"We probably should not have messed with Saddam though." why not actually read what is wrote before commenting!
How horrible would it be as a parent to know that your dead child's heart was given to someone as evil as Dick Cheney? I would not let them do it, I would smash it on the ground rather than let them put my child's heart in that monster.
And how about the parents of all those children who still wait on the list while Satan himself went to the front of the line?
American Exceptionalism at it's finest!!
Actually NO, "I" see no correlation in his comments with Hitler at all, something so many "lib's" like to compare people to. His comments are based on differences in attacks against the US and while WWII did cause the US to fight Germany that is not what got us into the war, we declared war on Japn after the attack on Pearl Harbor, which in turn led germany to declare war on America which then led to the Us declaration of war against them. So how you come to the conclusion of accusing someone with equating Hitler and either Afghanistan or Hussien shows you lack of knowledge and desire just to try and inflame someone by not actually responding to the comment itself but, what you want to add into it. Instead of understanding how accusing Cheney of killing thousands is no different then accusing any other presidennt or vice president of killing thousands as if they are a mass murderer. Along with the second point i his statement that " At least the Japanese were honorable enough to attack a military target, unlike the civilian target these POS Muslims attacked. " which is the correlation of attacks WHICH CAUSED THE PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT TO GO TO WAR , whether you believe it to have been a right or wrong war , So did you actually finish history class or just able to try and spew the same old Hitler comments to try and inflame someone without commenting on the actually merits of comments made????
bluthunder
Both Hitler and Cheney:
Opposed abortion
Had a record against equal rights for gays
Started wars
Betrayed allies
Confuse patriotism with loyalty to their party
Attacked the patriotism of anyone questioning them
Frequently talked about God in their speeches
Act like the rules of common folk don't apply to them
Guilty of war crimes
Took steps to eliminate any descent to their rule
Did not believe in equal rights for all citizens
Exploited national crisis for their own enrichment
Left their countries in worse shape than when they left office
Alverant Hitler was the leader Germany, where as Cheney was vice president. not the leader,
and where as i could list things also such as millions and millions of people oppose abortion or that Thomas Jeffersonn talked about god in his speeches including the second line of the Declaration Of Independence, he also helped lead us to war with England , Bejamin Fraklin also spoke of god in his speeches and writings. Abraham Lincoln talked and wrote about God frequently as well as quoted the bible would you equate these to hitler also, as far aas your ist ges Abraham Lincoln ACTUALY fits your list item for item. And Cheney did not start the war as he had no authorty to do so, that was Bush THROUGH THE AUTHORITY GRANTED BY CONGRESS
Also Alverant thank you for helpinng to confirm the comment i made previous to sean about "lib's" love of comparing people to hitler even as to go so far as to "reach" to try and prove your statement
wyoming
something tells me cheney didn't get a "childs heart". That would be donor-recipient mismatch...you may be using the term child more loosely though, apologies if so...
Yeah eric I was kinda playing fast and loose with the term child, but after all at 50 I still am my mothers youngest child. And I am sure I wouldn't smash it on the ground but it would be a horrible thing to find out especially if you really aren't into starting wars for profit or stealing hundred's of billions of dollars from the country you claim to love. I guess if you're a greedy pig whose cool with that kind of stuff then cutting someones heart out to keep your lord and master Satan alive for a few more years wouldn't bother you too much. To each his own I guess, it's just sad that our tax dollars had to pay for it.
You know this could turn out to be a good thing for the people of earth, perhaps he got the heart for a very kind person who was filled with love for all who he/she come in contact with, Perhaps Cheney will no longer be the evil overlord who destroyed America, perhaps dick will now be a kindly old gentleman who will spend his final days giving back the billions he conned out of the American people.
Correction: "from" a very kind person not" for"
I knew someone who was 27 years old that DIED waiting for a heart and he never got one. My hope would be that someone younger didn't miss out because of Cheney's money and power that seem to be able to BUY what others CAN'T.
Thanks for the laugh. Evil people who are egotistic, Narcissistic and are willing to throw the "undesirables" under the bus to save himself...Will ALWAYS be EVIL. They will only have change of heart on the Elevator DOWN to their maker in the fires.......
Thank, Dr. Caplan. You may now return to professional navel-gazing.
Cheney got a new heart? That means he had a heart: hard to believe. When did he get out of prison for getting us into that war in Iraq?
Should have let the reaper bleed out slowly, evil lurks in this minion's lifeless soul.
Hey, give Cheney a break - it's the first time he's ever had a heart!
Is he too old for a War Crimes trial or water boarding???
rush the pig Are you as stupid as your rantings?i
but the killer already got it so that's that .
hope it blows up
Now this is a ridicules story, if you have the doctors, and have the money, have the surgery! I don't care how old you are!
I agree with we-don't, maybe this real heart will help!
The point of the story is there are more people with good insurance or a personal fortune that can afford the transplant, but don't get it because there aren't enough organs for all of them. If he didn't have powerful connections in high places he would have been denied because of his age and generally poor health.
The situation reminds me of vampires, ancient and wealthy and surviving by sucking the life out of the young.
yay, trying to invalidate a good argument because of a typo. I guess you graduated from a school that taught you a lot of logical fallacies sean.
Sean- You know it was a typo and I meant to type ridiculous, but thanks for being ridiculous! LOL
Sean::: Get off your high horse. Hummbird made a typo, and you know it. Now quit trying to make people think that you are perfect because you aren't. You aren't any better than anybody else on this earth, so quit showing off your smarts (which you don't have).
Sean, I guess you are right. Your schooling wasn't inadequate... you are just an ass
What was gained? More gnarly, mean-spirited comments from an unhappy individual. I hope he heals and appreciates the gift he has been given; maybe a softer, gentler Dick Cheney is in our future. Wouldn't that be refreshing?
LOL tell that to the 100k+ innocent Iraqi deaths he is responsible for. Not to mention the torture.
I hope after he gets his new heart, he wakes up in a fire.
Cheney owes a whole nation and thousands of dead American soldiers and Iraqi civilians an apology. I had to make end of life decisions for each of my parents who were in their 70's. None of the decisions even considered extraordinary measures such as transplants. The 1% always have it better than the rest of us.
Cheney owes the people who wanted to live an apology!!
(Is he too old for a War Crimes trial or water boarding???)
I don't see why he needs a heart in the first place, he has lived all his life without one and has done fine. I wonder if the heart came from the dude he shot as another apology.
The Devil has to wait a little longer for his soul.
His punishment is enough for his heart transplant.........He will have to spend the rest of his life as DICK CHENEY.
Who would want to bear that burden?
Plus, he has to sleep with his conscience every night.
I get sick just thinking about what it must be like to be him.
"Karma is a ........"
Please, he has no conscience. He sleeps just fine.
What a waste of money. Now, if he'd only had a heart when he was born he might have been quite a different person and saved countless people utter misery.
I wonder why poor people are organ donors when it is pretty damn sure they will never be an organ recipient?
That's not true at all. My cousin had no money and she is alive today because of a liver transplant. I know a girl who had a heart transplant when she was a teenager. Her family wasn't poor but they weren't rich either. Frankly, I don't see any reason for government to be butting in unconstitutionally and forbidding people from selling their organs. The doctors, hospitals, drug companies,and everyone else makes a killing on the transplant. The donor or donor's family should be allowed to make something as well. That would eliminate the waiting lists too.
In GA if you check the organ donor box you get your drivers license about 1/2 price. That's a pretty good incentive if your poor and need that extra $10-$15. Plus poor people are usually not in good health when they die so there is not as much they can use. Unless they die young in an accident.
Too old,white,republican,conservative...under obama care he wouldn't get (s) h i t
Yes!! Bring on Obamacare -- too bad it's not already here - maybe someone more deserving (and definitely more promising) woulda gotten the heart!!
That is the problem with obamacare. Who decides who is more deserving and promising?
crisp::: Somebody would have known the ethics of transplants and figured that he was too old-- and for sure not worthy of one.
I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands who are more worthy of one-- but they don't have the kind of insurance or money that this thing has.
The health insurance legislation now proposed apparently has only the intent of preserving a system which perpetuates the advantages of wealth. What is needed is a single payer system. Health care reform, not health insurance reform.
If Cheney had "the advantages of wealth", why did it take two years for him to get a heart, AFTER scores of people in less wealthy economic classes received one? Think before you speak.
You mean, Rick, as opposed to people who die after waiting longer for an organ that never came?
Think before you speak.
What Dick Cheney got was a heart IMPLANT. You can't transplant what you never had to begin with!
Politics aside, and it shouldn't matter, the most alarming part of this story is that the contributing factors to his heart replacement were: money and top health insurance.
I have been labeled a "liberal" enough by people on here, so, I will claim it here. I may be a liberal, but I don't wish the former VP any harm or malice. As a critical care nurse that deals with heart issues, this story turns my stomach a bit. Somewhere, there is a young man or woman with children that need a heart but don't have the money or top health insurance and now will die so an old man can live.
Yes, he has the right to want to live, but how should money decide that someone is now going to be a widow/er and/or parentless because an old man on a LVAD has more money? Mr. Chaney has had a litany of other medical conditions over the years. He is going to have to take strong anti rejection drugs daily to keep his body from rejecting his new heart that will be increasingly difficult on his liver. His body will not process this medication as efficiently as his age increases.
Good for him that he has the money and the insurance to cover this. Most people in his condition are financially wiped out getting to this point. It's not a point of being lazy or such. Medical conditions like this lay waste to families financially. So it must come down to money. And I find that very sad.
What rossj503 said, and summed up perfectly. Best comment I've read.
Of course you'd have to show that someone else died so he could get that heart.
Additionally, transplant drugs are usually renal stressors, not hepatic. And research has shown that as people get older, they often need less immunosuppression.
BTW, I challenge you to talk to any transplant coordinator and get their take on why finances are just as important as mental health in listing criteria.
Yes, there is a high degree of renal stress. I simply pointed out the hepatic system because of the 1st pass effect and liver function in regards to the effectiveness of the medication and the biologic process.
I understand that financial "health" is important as this will have a long list of financial drains on the individual and their families. However, isn't this just a form of the infamous "death panels" deciding who can or cannot live based on the ability, or perceived ability, to pay? As I stated before, most people in this position are financially tapped dealing with the issues leading up to a transplant.
As an RN, I chose to stop working on the transplant unit, due to my concerns about the ethics of who was being "chosen" for transplants..... Cheney was too old and had other health issues, but he had $$ and position and OUR tax dollars providing hm with that excellent insurance. The system is so skewed - his transplant may yet serve a good purpose - expose the unfairness of the current system.
I've seen the Medicare system being drained by countless livers being transplanted into alcoholics, majority: male, in their 50s and 60s; guys who get maybe a cursory psych fitness eval, but only if they have an unfortunate spouse available to tend to them the rest of their days (make sure they don't drink again, take all the meds needed to prevent rejection and try to make the "ex-drunk" live healthier...) Do I sound biased? - you bet! There should be more that determines a person's APPROPRIATENESS to get a transplant than a MELD score..... And a limit of ONE transplant per person in their lifetime.
I hope Cheney's transplant provokes a LOT of discussion - we need universal health care, NOT health insurance reform.....
I'm listed as a donor - take what organ, skin et al that can be used to help someone after I'm gone. I chose to NEVER accept a transplant; I'm 60, and I've seen the cost on quality of life; I've lived a good full life, don't need to cling on when my time is up.....
Keeda,
As a fellow RN, I agree with you! I don't think most understand what it is we see and how medical problems devastate people financially and emotionally. People don't understand that unless you are extremely wealthy that it doesn't take much to bankrupt someone due to medical cost. I rather think that if people worked alongside an RN for a couple of weeks, their attitudes might change a bit.
The insinuation that Mr. Cheney received his new heart because of his "money and top health insurance" is absolutely, totally, 100% false. The only criteria that is required to be met is that the heart was a good match in terms of the donor’s size, blood type and other biological and geographical factors. Other factors also included involve the health of the recepient and how likely it is that he or she will survive the procedure. The United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS) manages the nation's organ transplant system under contract with the Federal Government, so if you want to lay blame at someone's feet, ultimately it lies at the feet of the Federal Government and UNOS. Tudorgurl's comment that "the rich have access to life & the poor get screwed" is based on total ignorance fueled by the insinuations in Dr. Caplan's article. SEE: unos.org & lifegift.org to educate yourself before you spout off about a subject you know nothing about, tudorgurl.
Where's your proof dingo?? Your claims sound like that TeaBagging crap full of lies...
Dear RushISaPIG: Check it out for yourself at the UNOS website, and while you're at it check out LifeGift's website @ lifegift.org. There is no discrimination in regards to the transplant organizations. In fact, you'll find that most people involved in these organizations seem to liberal in their political leanings, but that's just personal anecdotal observation on my part.
Rick,
While what you say is absolutely true, you need to look at the process to be eligible to be on that list. Simply because you have a "need" doesn't put you on the list.
For example: I have a friend with a life threatening liver problem. He will need a liver transplant to survive. Due to the fact that he is on SSI, he doesn't qualify for medicaid as he makes too much with SSI. The doctor has told him that unless he can fund the $50,000 operation, he will not be allowed to go on the transplant list. So yes, money and insurance does play a part in this process. Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper to find what an expert means by money and top health insurance.
Ah, the insurance "death panels" also get to decide who gets "life"............for enough money......
Dear Wa-St-Concerned: "Money" has nothing to with it. Insurance companies don't determine who receives a transplant. Educate yourself and THEN open your mouth, OK?
I would be intrigued to know your opinion, then, on who did in this instance?
I was an organ donor until I found out the doctors were helping them die so they could harvest big money organs from warm bodies brought in by ambulances from car wrecks and heart attacks, which provided the excuse to harvest live organs from live bodies before those organs had a chance to "spoil". Nothing like coming in on a stretcher to have your heart, kidneys and other organs removed while you're still alive in a coma.....They already had your permission right there on your driver's license to harvest them.
Never again.....
Ignorance on display, NC10T-3828813. You could not be MORE wrong. &
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Thank you, "Dear Canada et al". As someone who is NOT a Dick Cheney fan, the ignorance on display here is stunning and sad at the same time. Your articulate comments are much-appreciated.
You are absolutely correct in the first part of your sentance, although it is YOUR ignorance which is on display
While this is an interesting perspective, it's sort of blunted by the fact that I have never seen a legitimately documented case of this happening. On the other hand, people die waiting for organs on a daily basis.
Deciding not to donate organs because of personal fears and biases based on NO factual evidence of what you've described in the entire history of mankind? There are lots of words to describe that. Wise is not among those words.
Not only is he too old for a heart transplant, he is unworthy of a second chance at life. Thousands of US military personnel would be alive today if it were not for Cheney. Many more would have whole bodies and minds. The United States would be a better place today had his mother miscarried. This man has done to the USA what all its foreign enemies could not; he destroyed its present and possibly its future.
I agree with Grampsny. Cheney may be one the most amoral men of the 20th century. His astounding exhibition of bravado in goading us to war in Iraq after 9-11, and the subsequent decision to declare early (false) vistory in Afghanistan, has cost us trillions and thousands of lives lost and injured. Asking the one percent of the US population to "fight for us" is craven and typical of evil misfits like Cheney. He strikes me as a person who has no scruples and regrets in sending our young men and women off to fight useless wars. Well, perhaps the only good thing that could come of this is his confession of misguided policy cheerleading, a mean cculpa to the American people. Shame on him!!!
Ah, yes, the classic conservative argument, "I know you are but what am I?" That's mature.
I don't hope he dies, and I don't hope he recovers either.
Cheney does owe an apology, and it's to those other people who were waiting for that heart before him. I yell at people who jump the line at the grocery store, if I was waiting for a heart and he was just magically put to the head of the line, I'd probably try to rip it out of his beating chest. 71 years old...
He wasn't "just magially put to the head of the line." He was on the list for almost 2 years.
I am a transplant coordinator, and the average wait time in our facility is 35 days.
People need to understand the dynamics and circumstances surrounding organ transplantation before showing their bias.
Stop making excuses for the tired old TURD!!!!
"the dynamics and circumstances surrounding organ transplantation" dictate that a 70+ year old man in horrible health is NOT a candidate for transplant, period!
'dictate' and that's the system you want???? we all must live by our HOPES and not by what some ethics expert says regarding our health.
So it sounds like death panels already exist.