I couldn't agree more with you. I was pre-med in college with a focus on Physiological Psychology and the only thing we could all agree on is that none of us, including the professors, knew anything about the workings of the human brain.

That said, the brain is a system of intricate tubes filled with what is essentially an electrical conductor- salt water. Re-booting the system through the introduction of low levels of electricity does work in some cases. We studied Rhesus Monkeys (I still have nightmares about that and no longer support animal testing) and found that specific areas of electrical stimuli would result in very specific behavioral changes. A wide spectrum electrical "bath" can definitly produce a massive effect on the human brain. The procedure is not analogous to the "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" barbarianism that you might imagine. Current procedures are very low levels of stimuli coupled with mitigating drugs.

We don't understand even a fraction of brain chemistry. We do have some information on cause / effect results. If these treatments help the afflicted, who are we to judge the technique. Let's all just tone it down a notch. And whoever is bringing politics into this debate may need a bit of a shock themselves to straighten out their thinking. Stay on topic people.

After 20 of those babies in 1964, I could no longer remember how to say my last name. 48 years later, I still have to think and struggle to say my own name. The people that promote this deny that type of brain damage. I invite them to do a neural activity scan of my brain. I would bet that there are areas of the frontal lobes that are completely dark. I know quite well that there are social behaviors I have been unable to learn because those areas of my brain are quite dead. Technically, I am a wizard, a mixture of type one and type two bipolar. The only good thing was that because I was 14, they gave me sodium pentathol and put me out. Unfortunately, I now have stents which would probably prohibit the imaging.

It seems pretty obvious to me how it works:

"Are you still feeling depressed?"

"Yeah, kind of..."

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAP! "AAAAAAAAAAAARGH!"

"Are you still feeling depressed?"

"Um, I don't know...maybe a little..."

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAP! "AAAAAAAAAAAARGH!"

"Are you still feeling depressed?"

"NO. NO, I feel fine now...REALLY!"

"Ah, the treatment was a success!"

Softdude, I am sorry. You should write your memoirs and shame the people that did this to you. I am so sorry. May you find comfort. Cheap cowardly bastards did this to you. God bless you if you want to believe, if not, that is your right. May you find comfort.

softdude From what you said you had a bad psychiatrist. You only get one series of six shocks. Then you wait, megavitamin therapy, exercise and other pleasant activities and then you are tested again. YOU DO NOT GO FOR 20 ECTS. If you had 20 that was wrong.

I had over 120 ECTS over 45 years always six when living became too difficult and then the waiting to see if I was on the road to recovery and I always recovered. But I am a hard head and I had to work and keep my family fed, make money and live, so I endured and lasted. Know I have a tremendous 5 part stock market program, I developed with over 30 different studies and making 6% a day. No edge off my brain. I exercise, eat right, think, work, sleep, use my sleep apnea machine, take my half pill of valium to calm me down and go on living. Works for me! Oh if you want to get checked out by a great hospital then it is the Hackensack, NJ hospital sleep center. FABULOUS AND GREAT PEOPLE! They might even recommend a great psychiatrist to talk to about your problems.

@Softdude, I'm really sorry to hear that. Besides the saying your name part have you been able to make some progress with recovering since the treatment? Hopefully things get better for you.

Softdude, I'm sorry that you had to go through that.Cerebral stents shouldn't keep you from having a head CT or MRI.People with stents often get a lot of scans to check the patency of the stents.Are you thinking that some of the damage you suspect might not be as visible on the scan because of the location of the stents.

My humble advice would be to go to a neurologist with a good reputation, tell them about all your neuro deficits,point out to them that that's just not normal and you want some answers,and insist on some diagnostic tests. Good luck.

@Softdude, would you want to have chemo-radiation for cancer in 1964 vs. today?? They have finely tuned chemo-radiation (not to mention having a number of new chemo agents) so much over the decades, it would be false to say the state of cancer treatment today is not much better than in 1964. I'm sorry that you received ECT in the 'early' era where far less was known about it and probably it was applied experimentally to many cases we know today aren't good candidates for ECT. My grandmother (sweetest human being you could ever know) died 27 years ago from a type of breast cancer that today is highly treatable. They can't "cure" it today, but they can put it into remission for YEARS (often 10 years or more) without too much damage to the body or bad side-effects. I myself suffer from a disabling health condition (diagnosed 10 years ago) that was first described in the medical literature in the mid-1800s, but then went over 120 years without any key advancements or discoveries until about 10 years ago. Even though a few key discoveries have been made in the past 10 years, no new treatments for it have come. The current treatments help some people greatly, but most others not much at all. Still, I would want to be diagnosed and treated today rather than 50 years ago, that's for damn sure. Best wishes my friend!

The latest news on Alzheimer's is that, apparently (for some test subjects) electric therapy has totally stopped its progression. Two electrodes are implanted deep within the central portion of the brain and connected to defibrillator type device implanted in the chest wall. This device fires small amounts of current at a rate of around 120 cycles a minute. Two of the five test subjects had their symptoms actually improve! So there is a lot of interest in brain stimulation by electrical means. I doubt the drug companies are very happy about it though. I think if people admit it, we all have close family or friends who are suffering from depression at some level. It is an insidious disease and can be hard to treat. I think they are a forgotten group and can easily be marginalized by not only their family and pears but by the medical establishment and especially by insurers! They certainly don't get the respect and care, sometimes, that they deserve.

Untreated severe depression is cruel and barbaric. These people have a general anaesthetic and muscle relaxant so that they are completely unaware and do not have any physical seizure. It is reserved for the most severe cases and if you'd ever seen the gratitude in someone's eyes whose depression was completely in controllable through psychological or drug treatment after a course of ECT your attitude would be very different. Tell a patient for whom it is the only thing that works that you want it banned and then ask them what they think is truly cruel and barbaric.

Kate-344962 You have no idea what you are talking about. Some of the most creative people in the world suffer from severe depression. Stress, over work, despair, loosing a loved one etc can take a normal person and drive him to the depths of despair and even suicide. For some the anti depression medications just don't work and the kick in phase is too long.

With ECT the effects can be almost immediate and although it does have side effects, they are minimal to what one suffers through severe depression.

Yes I have had ECT several times, and it still takes several months to regroup and come back. Yes it can be genetic. My mother and aunt suffered from severe depression. My aunt was hospitalized for all her life. My mother was always morose and sad.

Coming out of an ECT treatment is like being reborn. The cares and heavy mental pressure is gone and as long as the person gets on a strict multi vitamin diet, great doctor care, supportive friends and relatives, he can come back. I have come back six times.

except that it isn't.

Doctorisin: I'm glad you find ECT helpful, however it is striking to say that one can "come back" and then follow with, "I have come back six times." The latter statement says to me that ECT is not as effective as we've been led to believe, in that it has no lasting effect.

I'm from a family with a history of 4 generations of depression, have suffered many bouts of severe depression, have attempted suicide, been hospitalized many times and am currently in the midst of a 15 year "episode" of severe depression. Over those 15 years I have tried virtually every medication and in nearly all possible combinations to no significant effect. I currently take a cocktail of 4 separate meds and it keeps me relatively stable but does not greatly relieve the major symptoms.

The last time I was hospitalized my roomamate was a man who had been doing ECT for several years. He was back in the hospital, feeling suicidal, and waiting for the arrangements to be made for another round of ECT. I was very curious because I had mostly concluded that ECT was my only hope. He did a lot to discourage me and said that if he'd known what the real long term results would be, he never would have done it.

I had always read and been told by shrinks, "It's an outpatient procedure, you go in in the morning very depressed and wake up in the afternoon groggy but completely free of depression." Until I met this man I had never heard or read that ECT is an ongoing treatment, I had always ben led to believe it was a one shot deal. The truth is that it's a regimen of treatments over several months and it does not prevent you from becoming depressed again, even within a year. He also said that "the minor side affects" line was a blatant lie and that they are cumulative, especially the "short term" memory loss. From what he said, and others have since told me, I'd rather be depressed.

I'm truly glad you find it helpful, despite having gone through it six times.

ECT can "save lives." I witnessed it first hand. I'll never forget when I was a teenager going to my best friend's house and seeing his deeply depressed mother sitting in a chair with this stare that was a frighteningly ugly combination of sadness, despair and anger. No matter how many times my friend would reassure me that it had nothing to do with me and that she was just "not feeling well," it scared me and I never quite got used to it.

Then one day she energetically greeted me at the door with a big smile. She was a completely different person: bubbly, sweet, attractive and full of life. I couldn't believe it. My friend later told me she had recently returned from "shock treatment" and the hope was that this time the results would "last." It really was a miraculous transformation. I would say ECT definitely saved her life.

Hoodie-2290570 Perhaps I didn't explain myself, in my family it is genetic. It runs on my mother's side a propensity to get depressed, severely. My father was a very abusive man, lowly educated, spoiled and very jealous of any attention I got. On his side of the family is Parkinsons and Alzheimers.

You want to worried and get stressed out, put those factors into your mind and remember seeing you father in a hospital for three years being spoon fed and having his ass cleaned like a baby.

Any how, I have realized that overwork, extreme stress and overload will bring back severe mental depression. I was kidnapped, I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, two men tried to kidnap my son, my boat on the high seas was deliberately run over and I had to drag the captain to shore with both legs almost cut off, I had many successful businesses and had some not so successful, I had a bad wife, I lost my first son, when the doctor didn't check the oxygen tank before delivery, a worker stole $50,000 and I had to work with the police for a year to get it back and have her put in jail and these are the high points. I caught two robbers in the house and fired at them. Police tried to extort money from my business.

I have the ability to work myself out of tough spots and then after everything is resolved get into a deep depression. Who knows why and how it works. It is the chemicals in the brain.

I know it and the doctors know it. So when I get overloaded AGAIN and work for 1-2 days non stop again, and I get worried again, I know that I will get a deep mental depression and I have to work to stop it. Most women who are rape victims have hideous dreams and depressions. Violently in my life, I have experienced a lot of rapes to my living and I survive, but with scars. I am one mean son of a bitc* and I make life hell for whoever crosses me, but there is a price. Now I want to slow down. And thanks to the ECT I made it to 66.

It is not a regimen of several treatments it is 6 shocks administered over a week or two. As every medication, it is for you to decide. I tried the prozac and the zanax and who knows what ever. I was left with no choice. Either I finish medical school or work in a store. So they signed the papers and I was "cured"! But I had to learn and I am a thick head. It says right there in the books, relapses are common as people feel better and then they stop taking the meds or whatever and fall back.

The trick for me is EXERCISE 5 hours at night, 5 times a week. Good food. Regularly. Talking with people. Working in moderation. Being successful, no matter what, something that makes you feel good, making toy airplanes, playing cards, using your mind, crossword puzzles, whatever, but get into the habit of feeling good.

My exercise routine is 30 minutes squash, then weight lifting, then the bicycle, then the running, then the pool 100 laps, then the sauna, steam room, jacuzzi and a shower, home to music and then to bed.

A late dinner and reading.

For me that works. For you, you have to experiment and it shouldn't cost you a lot. A pleasant hobby, meet some friends, gym, music, reading and relaxing.

Now one ECT treatment is not going to hurt. But you should set your mind at rest and talk to other people who had good and bad experiences. Here I only can talk about my good experiences. I tried a lot of psychiatrists and psychologists and they all disagree. One said I was completely healthy, another wanted talk therapy for some years, several psychologists sold me waterfall music cds. Three psychiatrists recommended ECT and it worked for me.

IT IS COMPLETELY UP TO YOU. I WISH YOU SUCCESS IN WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE.

Hmmmmm.... Let's see helping 75%-85% of those who have had it and suffered from severe, debilitating depression recover. I can see how that is cruel. It would be much more humane to just let them suffer and have a really poor quality of life. I don't understand your thinking on this subject.

From reading all the comments above, I guess its safe to say that like most treatments, ETC works on some people while it does not work on others???

Phenomenal112 Of course nothing works on everything. Millions of women die of breast cancer. They should be saved. A simple aspirin administered within 15 minutes could save millions of stroke victims a lot of harsh living. Who knows about alzheimers or parkinsons? So why should it be so hard to say we don't know why ECT works on some and not on others? I can give you a name of a high blood pressure medication the doc told me to take for years. I ran out of it and forgot to take it for 2-3 weeks. Found out it wasn't necessary for my type of high blood pressure:( Wasted money.

So you experiment, talk, read, etc. and find out what works. My aunt died of cancer of the pancreas. I recently read of a women doctor who has access to an experimental very expensive anti cancer pancreas drug. She investigated, decided to double the dose, do a few other things and 5 years later she is still alive and all the screening shows no cancer. Nothing you can do but experiment and read.

My concern is that since they don't know how it works that potential long term side-effects may not be fully known. Like a frontal lobe lobotomy this possibly could just be damaging the brain to make the patient more manageable and that unlike the lobotomy ECT either does not do permanent damage or the damage is minor enough that the brain eventually builds new circuits because the underlying chemical issue has not been treated. That's just my opinion and that just the thing. They really don't know how or why it works and it's said as much in the article so what I said could be possible as they just don't know . I have to admit this "we don't know why or how it works but it gets results so we use it" mentality in medicine and human health worries me and doesn't seem very responsible. When it comes to my body and brain I'd feel a lot better if I wasn't doing something that was a guess at best.

My mother had a course of 6 ECT treatments in 1963, after everything else failed. Basically saved her life, her family, and her marriage. Lasted until 1980 when she felt she was becoming depressed and did not want to screw around with the normal medication route - so she had another series of 6 ECT treatments which were also extremely effective and lasted until her passing at age 92, two years ago. Let me tell you - hardly anything is more cruel and barbaric than deep, dark depression. I thought it could never happen to me because I had seen it up close and personal twice. Boy was I mistaken. I have been there twice myself but never actively suicidal - passively by not getting the health care I needed for an obvious arm tumor. Finally when my wife threatened to leave if I did not get the surgery I needed - this "shocked" me into action. One major arm surgery for sarcoma and 20 radiation treatments later -- I now by the grace of God (my opinion) still have a mostly functional right arm (with a major, major divot) and functioning right hand and am very thankful. I am fortunate to be left handed. But more positively, I am trying to learn the importance of trying to enjoy each day. Depression is killer in many, many ways. Life on the other hand is a journey !!!

Kate,

ECT is cruel and barbaric

READ THIS. YOU'LL LIKE IT.

I am reminded (silly, I know) of a the Star Trek movie where Kirk and Dr. Mccoy had went back in time and are wondering around a hospital in the 1970s (I believe), and Dr. Mccoy was espousing on all the barbaric tools used to actually cut people open do do surgery. At one point, a very sick and elderly lady was lying on a gurney in the hallway, and he asked her what was wrong with her. She said her kidneys had failed and she was waiting for dialyses (I believe). Mccoy shook his head in disgust, took a pill out of his medical bag and had her take it. Later in the scene you see a group of doctors surrounding the woman, who now appeared in good health, and she was exclaiming enthusiastically about the doctor that gave her a pill and she grew a new kidney. The doctors were severely stumped to say the least.

There's no telling what we (I mean our ancestors) may think of our current medical miracles!!

About 100 years ago, or barbers were also our dentists, and sometimes our doctors. Wow, aren't we lucky to still be alive!!

To doctorisin,

Wow, and I thought my life was rough at times. You really outa write a book!! You are definatly a tougher dude than myself!

I have been told to write books many times. I believe reliving all these traumatic events will bring on another major nervous breakdown. I know I have not long to live. This life has been too stressful. As to the people whose relatives tried or did commit suicide, I know about that. Sometimes when I am down and out, I imagine the ways to stop fighting and just end it. A gun, jumping off a bridge, downing all the pills, sitting in the bathtub with a radio on the side ready to drop it in the water, a rope around the neck and kicking the chair out, so, yes I have been there. When one crashes, one looks for any way to stop the hurt and and any way not to see tomorrow.

Get yourself a teaser and shock yourself all you like.

Not helping someone when you can is cruel even if helping them means inflicting pain on them.

Oh my! I hope you meant to imply the word "consensually" in there somewhere. Inflicting pain without consent in order to "help" someone is often the core attitude behind abuse such as the Spanish Inquisition.

Anymore ECT is something agreed to gravely after multiple courses of drug therapy fail. Often it will be the patient now who petitions their psychiatrist for a referral to ECT treatment.

taxfatcats Never ever go to a doctor with an ailment. He just might have something that might save your life.

Have you had shock treatment, or do you just know everything?

ageofreason99 I am a workaholic, overachiever and had six courses of ECT over the last 45 or so years. I am a doctor, studied, architecture, civil engineering, had three successful businesses, work 12 hours a day on the computer and am independently wealthy.

If someone stuck a stick in your eye would you go to a doctor to have him save your eye? Mental illness is there and a huge portion of the people have some sort of mental illness and a lot refuse to acknowledge it. They still consider it something to hide.

ageofreason99 Call your family physician, ask him for the name of the best psychiatrist who has experience with ECT take, your check book and go see the psychiatrist. After your 50 minutes are up, write him a check for $300 and ask him if he knows everything.

ENJOY!

Amanda-2255052

You can't rule out multiple problems, alzheimers, dementia, etc. For me it is a life saver. I know it is genetic as deep depression runs in the family on my mother's side. All the pills never had any effect.

doctorisin:

So, anecdotaly this woman changed significantly after receiving ECT and you think the change might have been attributable to Alzheimer's or dementia? Really?

Cause and effect? Coincidence?

Hoodie-2290570 You know nothing. And of course, you know nothing about masking diseases. Back to the hospital where you can learn some more big words, before they drug you up and place you in the bed next to someone who can teach you to read.

Severe mental depression was a masking diagnosis for sleep apnea. Now be a good boy and ask the attendant to take your temperature.

Amanda, maybe she was a different person because she'd attempted suicide. Something drove her to try and kill herself - an action which always changes people. Sounds like she lost hope, and electric shock was not her cure.

@Hoodie, you stated the woman changed after a major depressive event, emotional breakdown, or psychotic break, and that you had not seen her in years since this happened. You may be surprised to learn that some people never fully recover or have lasting personality changes after these events, ECT or not. e.g. she could have been suffering from adult-onset schizophrenia.

A friend of the family was hospitalized after a major depressive episode (he also had a substance abuse problem, i.e. self-medicating). He was a relatively clean-cut non-rebellious preppy kid when he went in. I saw a photo of him online taken about 12 years after his depressive episode. He was heavily tattooed, had multiple piercings, and was arm-in-arm with his boyfriend. Nobody knew him to have tattoos, piercings, or to be gay before he went in. So by your logic, they must have done something to him at the hospital to "turn" him into a gay man with a penchant for tattoos and piercings? FYI, he did not have ECT.

Scubasteve58001 When you know it is effective and will return you to a normal life, you say of course!

If you were bitten by a rabid dog, would you stop after the first injection or would you go through the entire course of treatments.

There is no shame having a mental illness. The days of hiding sister Annie in the closet or locking up uncle Charles in the coal bin are gone.

Football players get concussions and children get headaches from falling on their heads. They should not be treated with modern medicines and operated on? The brain is just another part of the body.

If you break your arm, do you go to a doctor and get it set and put in a cast?

I will tell you with all the bad experiences. I have completed 14 years of higher education, run three successful businesses and am completely independently wealthy. Yes there were terrible times, but I always bounced back and thank god for ECT!

hjmchi This has to be completely up to you. Talk to a profession psychiatrist who is an expert. Not your family physician. Go to the hospital and talk to people who have had it and talk to them.

If you have been on prozac and the numerous other medications and they don't work, their are other things you can try. EAT good food at the same time every day! Get the book Stop Aging Know by Jean Carper, probably out of print but available on line at used book sites. It has all the information on vitamins, how much, how they work, the only book that reveals everything. It is tremendous. Read everything about depression.

EXERCISE! A LOT. SEVERAL times a day. Join a gym and swim! As much as you can, exhaust yourself physically and sleep deeply. I find valium calms me down. I am still a bit hyper and as I need to get into my zone to work, I have to step down the overactive brain.

ECT does not hurt. You are put to sleep and when you awake several hours later, if you have family, you are allowed to go home and come back for the next treatment. It is part of most insurance plans.

It will not change your life for the worse.

I was in medical school, and the pressures were enormous and I asked my family doctor, if there was something besides coca cola and coffee that I could take to keep me going. He recommended a drug and I took it, and took it and it helped!!!!!! Boy did I learn!!!! Then out of the blue a CRASH!!!!! Overload. ECT, vitamin therapy, vacation, work, exercise, everything they could think about and this was 43 years ago. I recovered and went back and fine...... Then I forgot and started working 18-20 hour days and stress and bang CRASH a cycle I just didn't learn to back off of. Now when I feel the stress and pressures build, I slow down, and take it easy, got some hobbies. Just have to learn to not be a workaholic.

doctorisin - Thank you for your response. I have met with a specialist, my psychiatrist, as well as tried many different meds, talked in one on one & group therapy, etc., etc. Right now I'm on a dead end road & pray this will help. I don't want to follow in family footsteps (two suicides - my father & his father who I never met). It is nice to read that it does work & people have had positive experiences. It helps ease my anxiety.

After the first major CRASH in medical school, and came back home, I went the same route, a lot of different meds, and the doctors told me that each med would take weeks or months to kick in. I was in a hurry and still tried about 6 of them. The most efficient was the mega vitamin therapy. That put me back on my feet quickly. However, as I felt recovered I stopped taking them and relapsed. I made the trip back to the original doctor and he chastised me for stopping the vitamins.

Unfortunately for deep depressions I found that one on one therapy didn't work in my case after I spent $5000. And group therapy didn't make me feel great either.

NOW I did find something. As the one on one was not working and I was coming home after handing the doc another $200+ check, I heard about sleep apnea! You might want to read about this, slowing the oxygen to the brain causes depression. I asked the psychiatrist and he wasn't in favor so I went to the Hackensack NJ hospital sleep center and took the overnight test and they found that I was waking up 50-125 times an hour!!! I wasn't getting enough rest at night and that might have been the problem. Then they ask you to come back a second night and they test the body's need for oxygen and set you up with a mask that forces air into your mouth and nose!

The next day I woke up like a new person, not tired, stressed out, feeling great. I went out and got the machine, which needs a prescription and has to be set at the special pharmacy and the mask and now I have been using it for over 20 years.

THIS MIGHT NOT BE YOUR PROBLEM AND THE TESTS ARE EXPENSIVE! You have to check your insurance coverage. But the incidences of deep depression decreased. Exercise is a extremely vital. I went to the gym 5 nights a week and always swim 100 laps. Then the sauna, steam room, jacuzzi and I sleep like a baby.

Unfortunately , it is trial and error and you never know until you try.

I am doubly blessed:( There is genetic severe depression on my mother's side and parkinsons and alzheimers on my father's side. To tell you the truth I am scared silly. But I work, exercise, talk with friends, work the stock market, run my businesses and am happy to be at this stage after all this trauma, alive and fit. Remember food and exercise and vitamins. I take over 20 vitamins a day, fish oil, coenzyme Q, garlic, Gingko, Selenium etc, and lots of fruits and nuts.

doctorsin-

Have you tried hot yoga? I did my Master's thesis study regarding the effects of hot yoga on depression and got significant results even for participants who tested with severe depression. My dissertation study is also evaluating hot yoga and depression. I'm collecting data right now, and initial indications are that I will have significant results again.

Also, a raw food diet does wonders!

I hope it works. I have been to many psychologists and tried everything they have suggested. This is the crux of the problem and it may help you in your thesis.

There is a very serious depression that is called a complete nervous breakdown. Absolutely horrible. No will to live, almost like being a living corpse. That is what I get.

Then there is a much less severe depression that responds to what a psychologist can help you with. They do not help me. The meditation, talk therapy, the relaxation music, the take a break, go on a vacation ideas........nothing. Then there are pills, xanax, prosac, injections, muscle relaxants etc. Nothing.

Then there is ECT, good regular food, EXERCISE 5 hours a day, wear the body and mind out, ultra mega vitamin therapy helps. Get a copy of Jean Carper's book, Stop Aging Now, probably find a copy on the internet in the used book sites. It is old but it reveals all the natural substances and the quantities and they work! But you need a doctor who understands and approves the therapy.

Depression has many forms and as the people have said, one cure does not fit all.

Well said indeed !!

Fred Nolen No the effects of ECT are not the same as being hit by a baseball bat. You don't know what you are talking about. The only side effects are a slight disorientation, a small memory lapse, which usually precedes the time that the initial injection is administered and then a quiet time.

A hit on the head with a baseball bat is painful, can cause a fractured skull and a concussion. You get none of those effects when you wake up from an ECT. Some doctors use a mouthpiece, you can clamp down on to prevent tooth damage. It is over in minutes.

There is nothing to complain about. There is a sense of peace and perhaps a tiredness that allows one to take a nap or rest outside in the sun. I found that laying in shorts with a pet by my side was extremely relaxing. Having a home cooked meal, watching a few hours of mindless tv and getting to bed early was very relaxing.

You really shouldn't comment as you gave all the wrong answers, symptoms, and psychologists are not allowed to administer ECTs and are not allowed to interfere with the patients of psychiatrists. Matter of fact there is a conflict between psychiatrists and psychologists on treatment of severe depression. Your lack of knowledge and complete ignorance of ECT is dangerous. You should not be telling people about what you know nothing. It is far better to go to a good hospital, get a great recommendation from someone on staff and make an appointment with a qualified psychiatrist, not a psychologist, and get your questions answered.

Most definitely it will not affect your personality, except it will make you less hyper, it will not cause you pain, it will not affect your intelligence or your intellectual ability or personal relationships.

Psychologist are not allowed to prescribe medications and in conclusion, I doubt every word you say.

Mental illness can have a variety of causes and we don't understand most of them beyond their biological nature. Sure some people with mental illness had bad childhoods, but sometimes it is just mechanics.

Sometimes it is connected to illness not typically considered "mental". If you go through wild swings of energy through the day (not actually symptoms of typical bipolar), don't you want to have your doctor check you out for conditions like diabetes before taking the narrative of your childhood.

Stephaniecali Wonderful!

Good for your family, glad this helped. I agree with some of the previous comments that we just do not know the workings of the brain, but we have to sometimes take a leap and go with what helps!

The 'know-it-alls' are probably the ones that also say 'get over it' or 'shake it off.' If only.....

hjmchi Right ON! How many times I was told, it is only in your mind, just a matter of time, meanwhile you are going through hell and not enjoying life as it was meant to be lived!

You are disoriented and come back with the same problems but don't want to talk about them lest they shock you again.

Apparently it didn't work in your case. You ARE speaking from experience (you HAVE been shocked), right? If you haven't been shocked, then no matter how many patients you've seen you're not qualified to make that statement.

I can say for certain that Fred Nolan either is lying about his qualifications and experience as a mental health professional, or had his license suspended due to his incompetent/uninformed opinions. The vast majority of patients who receive ECT express a DESIRE to continue it. They don't 'shut down' after the ECT. They shut down long BEFORE the ECT and start to function again AFTER it. They stop talking long BEFORE ECT and start talking AFTER it. The fact that Nolan appears not to know this, actually believes the total opposite, along with his laughable comparison to TBI, is proof enough for me that he has no doctorate in anything and has never been a mental health professional. Well...I suppose its possible he received his training and worked in some backwards country like Bolivia or Sudan.

Shandril You don't get 12 treatments. You get a series of 6 treatments and then tests are run. Sounds like you got a bad doctor or are making these things up. There is no such thing as a chemical lobotomy.

I doubt that you know what a lobotomy is. Tell us all what you think a lobotomy is. Then when you dream up a good answer explain what a chemically lobotomized by psych drugs is.

You are in desperate need of treatment for your hostility and anger. Psychiatry is not barbaric. There are people who will be reading these comments who are looking for help and helpful comments. You are in severe danger of hurting yourself.

Yes you better RUN to the nearest mental health clinic and describe your paranoid symptoms.

I would like to know how your friends were never the same. How did they change? Provide some info.

I agree Shandril...psychiatry has run rampant.....overdiagnosing and mass drugging of children, powerful antipsychotics used to treat insomnia(which is NOT the itent of those drugs), and shock therapy is STILL being used.....it's scary.

I hope your friends have (or will) come to their senses and get off whatever drugs that are making them miserable.

@doctorism, Shandril is NOT crazy, he/she is well informed of the dangers of shock treatment. Also, stop bringing lobotomy into it when Shandril NEVER MENTIONED it. This is NOT about lobotomy.

isis-2 Lobotomy is a very distinct word. It has an absolute meaning.

Shandril

This "extremely effective treatment" fried my friend's brain. She has never been the same since she received twelve-- yes, TWELVE-- of these so-called "treatments"-- and the change is not for the better. I have other friends whose minds were chemically lobotomized by psych drugs-- and again, they have never been the same, and the change is not for the better. Psychiatry is barbaric, whether it involves shocks or drug

Shandril used the incoherent term chemically lobotomized. Perhaps you Isis would like to tell everyone what is a lobotomy and what is chemically lobotomized by psych drugs. Just to be sure that I didn't miss anything I went through my medical books and every source available to me, which are numerous and there is no such word or phrase. Please enlighten all of us. After all according to Shandril even though mental health issues will affect 1 in 4 Americans during their lives, she is ordering everyone not to seek mental health. That alone means she is in desperate need.

If you choose to RUN - may I ask where to ?? Hopefully not hard drugs, alcohol. or permanently
out of the picture !!!

Number one, you have no business telling a stranger online to seek mental help.

ASIDE FROM THAT...I didn't catch the lobotomy part, but I do know what it means. A lobotomy is an operation, where nerves in the frontal lobe of the brain are severed, they use it to treat depression.

Also, chemical lobotomy is little more than slang to describe the SEVERE effects of powerful drugs on the brain.

There. You can just DROP IT. Get over your little "tell everyone what it means, dur hur" tangent, because I JUST DID.

Maybe that is how ECT works (maybe its not), but what is your point? What would be so great about being so 'highly intelligent and emotional' that you are UNABLE to function in any meaningful way?? You just sit around not bathing, not caring for yourself, unable to support your family, feeling hopeless, hitting the bottle or self-medicating with some other drug, possibly considering suicide...but the fact that you are highly intelligent and emotional is supposed to be some sort of consolation prize for a life lost to serious depression that nothing else seems to improve? And if patients prefer a loss of some 'intelligence' or 'emotionality' to get their life back over the madness and despair of being 'too' intelligent or emotional, you are in a position to second guess this decision because you have first-hand experience with serious depression that has stolen your promise and potential, leaving you withdrawn and unable to function?

doctorisin:

"Some people just want to see their names in comment boxes."

Hilarious! Talking about yourself? You have made a lot more comments on this thread than anyone else. I, for one, am beginning to believe that you're a shill, or at least a troll. You talk about your intelligence but you make consistent spelling and grammatical errors. You're a Doctor!? As if.

Why is it so important to you to convince everyone that ECT is so terriffic? It sounds to me almost as if you're trying to convince yourself.

Your experience that you've described, being hyper, stressed out and then crashing IS NOT depression, Bi-Polar would be far more likely. Since you're so free with your advice to, and judgment of others, about whom you know verry little, allow me to give some advice to you: Find some balance in your life, calm down and relax and take a serious look into whether you are suffering from ADHD. Also, try Lithium.

Someone, such as yourself, who finds it necessary to be taking Valium, is not someone who is depressed; rather you are someone with some other, apparently un-diagnosed problem. Time to get off your high horse and find a new shrink, not one that is getting a financial reward from an insurance company every time they prescribe a round of ECT for you. Also, you're quite wrong in your previous statement that most insurance covers ECT. That is NOT true.

Hoodie-2290570 What are your qualifications to comment here? How many times have you had severe mental depression and ECT? NONE! You completely misrepresent the treatment and scare the people with some verbalage about one person.

Every person should find the best psychiatrist and investigate. Talk to other people and find out if this procedure if for them. Scaring them off is not going to help them. Explaining what may have gone wrong and finding the best doctors is the proper and most beneficial act a patient can take. And talk to as many as you can and spend the money. Life is short and you may need some sort of treatment.

This is a very important topic for me. I have suffered with this almost my entire life and if I can direct one person to investigate and open a full and frank discussion, taking away the idea, that mental disease is a shame or something to be hidden, then I am happy to comment on it.

But saying that one person had a bad experience is terrible to say. As has been stated many times, everyone has to investigate for themselves.

Measles will kill thousands of people world wide, should that be a reason not to talk about it and not get a vaccination? ECT works. It all depends on the expertise of your psychiatrist and what he has tried before and believes what will benefit you. You want to scare people off, then you are wrong.

I have clearly stated, if you ever learn to read, that it has been beneficial to me! I told everyone else to talk to the best psychiatrist they can find and discuss treatments with that doctor. If they run out of options and have not had ECT, then discuss it with their doctor! GEEEZE people what to think what they can't read!

Gee Hoodie, you are going to hang out your shingle and call yourself the world famous internet msnbc.com psychiatrist, who can make diagnosis by just reading a comment? What state do you live in, I want to check the laws on practicing medicine without a license.

From what you said you are in a chronic mental depressive state and have been hospitalized. You have been souped up to your eyes on medications and it appears that since your family has had four generations of depression, it may be a genetic condition. You picked up a few buzz words such as bipolar, which you don't know how to use correctly and describe a completely wrong use of ECT. There is only one treatment and then a period of tests and relaxation and non medical treatment.

So you scare off people from seeking professional advice and deciding what treatments they should consult with their doctors about.

Isn't that really what you are saying?

And all my psychiatrists are wrong and you are the only one right. I do not have depression. And the ECTs did not help me, and the ECT treatments that helped all the other people who said it helped them are liars too. Hmmmmmmm some one desperately needs mental help. You do not know the symptoms of ADHA and you do not know how lithium affects different mental health problems. Again these are terms you picked up in your hospital stays and are not qualified to use.

Again you are not qualified to comment on what a practicing psychiatrist prescribes after numerous tests and drug trials. You are a nothing. You have no idea of the different causes of severe mental depression, and what medications affect it and how medications can be used to control the onsets of diseases. Of course doctor, the psychiatrists, the hospitals, the physicians have to kiss your ass as they only went to school 8 years and spent 4 years studying to be psychiatrists and 20 years practicing. And your qualifications? You spent 15 years being depressed popping pills and being hospitalized! Then you come on the net and recite a story about someone who may have gone through a series of needless ECT shocks, if it happened at all.

You do need to go back to school and read. I said that the person would have to check with their insurance company to check if their insurance policy covers ECT. My insurance policy did.

So take your comment and shove it where the sun don't shine.

no stress Let me know when your severe depression is born. I will think of a name for it.

"no stress"I have looked into freelance gyno,and believe me it's not what it's cracked up to be.My own loving spouse absconded 12 years ago rather than face "ECT "suggested by her Psychiatrist.She just didn't like the flavor of her medications.I have been depressed accordingly.I found relief through meditation and breathing awareness exercises.You can't give this stuff away!My Neurologist was a pain in the neck until he scrutinized his breath with the univerese.Now he is a "Golf Pro" because he likes to smell hair.Don't medicate when you can meditate.

GraveRainbow As you are the expert on psychiatrists, scientific study and ECT, I am sure you can site 10-5-1 reference I can review that shows that ECT damages the brain.

Come on, you stated a fact. In my 43 years living with it, studying medicine, talking with other doctors, professionals and continuously studying severe mental depression, I have never seen that mentioned.

I am deeply interested in knowing what article you can site for that information.