A few other factors: The lifting of restrictions on TV advertising prescription meds. These ads are all over TV now. At the same time as cigarettes ads were banned, helping reduce the incidence of smoking in the country, ads for medications became endemic. Our entire medical system is based on the disease model which must assign a diagnosis for any and everything in order for doctors to get paid for services. Further, insurance is much more likely to pay for ongoing medication than for long term "talk" therapies. Meetings with mental health doctors and practitioners are usually limited and require extensive and constant justification to continue for more than 6 - 8 weeks. Such therapies can be much better at long term treatment and management of things like anxiety, insomnia, phobias, but because insurance will not pay for the effective "dose" or length of treatment, medication becomes the only long term option.

We also now live in a society that expects life to be perfect. Just look at our tendency to file lawsuits to receive monetary compensation for any event which causes us any discomfort at all.

Finally, the standards that allow any doctor to prescribe any medication needs to be reassessed. Doctors are no long "general practitioners" and they are no longer selecting from a medication inventory of perhaps a couple of dozen compounds. They are prescribing from a list of thousands of drugs all being pushed by pharmaceutical company salesman.

As drugs become more powerful, more specific, and more dangerous, doctors, who almost all specialize now anyway, should also have to specialize in what medications they can prescribe and when they must refer to a different specialist to determine if a different medication is appropriate, on or off label. Consider how many drugs are also prescribed by mid-level providers and the same restrictions and specializations should apply to them also.

I agree with part of what you are saying, but not all of it. Yes, people do seem to want the quick fix for everything. However, medical professionals have an ethical as well as legal responsibility to act in the best interests of their patient, regardless of what the patient may want. If prescribing a strong anti-psychotic drug is not appropriate, then the doctor should say no and offer other alternatives. Doctors that get lazy and just write the prescription are violating their oath as physicians as well as breaking the law. They are harming their patients due to their own laziness and or apathy. These drugs are being over-prescribed and doctors are doing permanent damage to their patients. In addition, many drug companies are illegally marketing these drugs for off label uses. This is sometimes a coordinated effort and sometimes the result of overzealous drug reps trying to increase their sales numbers to make bonus or get a raise/promotion. There needs to be far stricter enforcement action by the DEA against both the drug companies, the drug reps, and the doctors. I am particularly concerned about the effects of giving these drugs to young children whose brains are still developing. There is increasing evidence that these drugs cause permanent psychological problems and organic brain damage when given to young children. Using these drugs to sedate young children into submission is a completely inappropriate use of these medications. Something must be done to rein in the over-prescription of these powerful drugs.

It doesn't have anything to do with what patients want. It's about how much kickback the doctor gets for prescribing certain drugs.

For example, a friend of mine experiencing short-term anxiety asked two of his doctors for a small number of Valium. They both refused but offered him anti-depressants instead. He would have had to take either of them for about 6 weeks before they took full effect, and the situation causing the anxiety would have been over before then, as he explained to both doctors.

Furthermore, he had no desire to take a daily pill but only wanted something he could take if and when necessary for a few weeks.

And just to be clear, he is a senior citizen with no history of using these kinds of drugs, let alone abusing them. He doesn't even drink alcohol.

The drug one of the doctors prescribed had a warning against giving it to seniors.

Theses doctors don't give a crap about patients except to the extent that they are a source of money, either directly or from pharmaceutical and medical lab companies.

Yeah--major weight gain. Been there, done that. Told the doctor that I was putting on weight because of the meds I had been given for panic attacks, and he told me that they give the med to people with compulsive eating disorder, and they lose weight. Yes, he treated me like I was 1) a moron, 2) lying, and 3) a nutcase.

Nice that the literature now proves that I was none of the three. I am, however, extremely heavy and now have diabetes. The charming doctor, by refusing to listen and thinking that I was lying, took an action that took about 30 years off my life.

I would not say that all doctors are like this--but patients who have a doctor who does not like them are in harm's way. Doctors often do not like patients who have political or religious views other than their own (my case--the doctor is a fundamentalist evangelical Christian), who are physically unattractive, who are in pain and therefore crabby, who are not well-to-do, etc.

Some doctors are motivated by greed; some doctors are motivated by pettiness; some doctors are motivated by what the insurance companies tell them to do. In all, I would say that far too many doctors have poor motivation and aren't really in medicine to help their patients.

Personally, I have found that nurse practitioners and DOs (who are also doctors, but who are trained in a different mindset--more wellness oriented) are far superior to MDs (who are disease/cure oriented) in terms of getting a primary care provider who will listen and who cares. While I don't mind an MD who is a specialist, I do not like MDs who are primary care providers any more. I've had too many bad experiences. We do, however, all need to remember that we have options other than doctors for prescribing meds (yes, nurse practitioners can prescribe meds).

We do need some sort of method to complain about something a doctor has done--and to complain directly to a group of individuals who can track said doctor to see if there is a pattern to the complaints and then to check the record to see if the complaints are valid. Even pettiness and failure to listen can ultimately kill people--perhaps not immediately, but can take years and years off their lives.

I liked a good deal of what you said Mike. Medicine has specialists whether it be for symptoms that would manifest such as pscyhiatric symptoms, a podiatrist, opthamologist etc. I go to my general primary care doctor for an annual physical exam for routine annual testing, general health issues etc. My primary care doctor sends me out to someone else to take care of specifics such as an annual eye checkup with an opthamologist. I'm certainly no expert but I wouldn't think my primary care physician would be very expertly versed in any kind of psychiatric medications (nor would I expect them to be) if I had psychiatric symptoms that were manifesting. I believe that if I started describing psychiatric symptoms my family doctor would certainly refer me to a psychiatrist's office where therapy would occur and medications dispensed if necessary. I would hope those who have psychiatric symptoms manifesting would have the good sense (or if their good sense were absent...their family or physician would know) to tell their primary care physician and ask to be referred to more specialized treatment and not rely on the general care doctor to dispense psychiatric medications for any sort of long term basis scenario.

Anita... absolutely.. didn't have time to add more so glad you did.

Bean and others ... I agree that many doctors over-prescribe for the various reasons mentioned above and I agree that more general practitioners should focus on more of a wellness DO like model. Many MD's are actually doing that now.

Justathought.. Sadly the statistics show that's not the case most psychotropics are prescribed by gp's.

Patients also are going to have to start asking what is and isn't really necessary and about alternatives. Patients are also going to have to start pushing politicians and insurance companies to pay for alternatives, such as psychotherapy instead of pursuing a pill. A pill does very little in addressing the issues that led to the problems to begin with!

Every year medicare reimburses less and less for psychotherapy and other insurance companies use medicare as a basis for usual and customary limits on fees for service. Insurance companies are also avoiding abiding by mental health parity by farming out mental health benefits to third party insurers so they can continue to limit visits or charge $2500 deductibles. Until these things change people will continue to seek pills instead of therapy because it's cheaper for the person in the short-term. It's time we as a nation stop looking to put band-aids on everything and start thinking about the long-term.

Mike I see you mentioned "Mother's little helpers" which was very popular to prescribe back in the 60's. What they were giving these women was Stelazine, a very potent anti psychotic. I agree with you about doctors over prescribing and people wanting a pill for every little ache,pain or symptom.

My biological mother was mentally ill because she was prescribed multiple antipsycho drugs simultaneously. She was very frightening on these drugs. She returned to halfway normal after she got off of them. Several decades later I had a tooth extraction with no complications other than food got down in the socket and caused severe pain. The oral surgeon I went to for the extraction was very cavalier about the prescription of pain meds. He asked me what drugs I wanted after he finished the procedure. I declined and only took advil and tylenol for a day or so after and was fine. When I went to him about the food stuck in the socket, he cleared it out and gave me a syringe to keep it clear. The pain was gone. I hadn't slept well for the previous two nights so he whips out the script pad and just writes a prescription for an anitpsychotic drug to 'help me sleep'. He didn't ask if I wanted it. Told me if I had any unusual symptoms to stop taking it immediately. I didn't look at what he prescribed until I was in my car since I had no intention of filling it anyway. I almost fell over when I saw it was one of the drugs my bio mother was on when I was a kid. I shredded it and vowed never to go back to that doctor again. Yeah, I lost a couple of nights of sleep. No big deal after having just completed my studies for my bachelors degree and three years of sleep depravation. Makes me shudder that so many doctors think pills are the answer to everything. Makes me afraid because they are so greedy that they push these meds onto people who don't need them. If I'm experiencing health problems, chances are I'm not taking proper care of myself and I need to change my habits. It's amazing how well that works!

What a really GREAT and comprehensively "informative" article, (from Babies to Seniors and everyone in between), followed by many of the same GREAT in the comments of this second thread.(since the entire first thread is wrongfully collapsed from Public view!) Really, herein lies such a MAJOR problematic component of Health-non-Care and non-Accountability Today, Inc. And, it can't be put anymore succinctly than it has, either : prescribing for everyday problems of living, INSTEAD; not to mention the ones who are being driven in droves to unneeded and unwanted "psychiatric"-designed-around-for-convenience multi-tiered entrapping "programs".

The proposed Legislation sounds interesting, but seems a bit underreaching and stand-alone-"token" to be being looked upon as any kind of "comprehensive" solution measure. I hope there's follow-up in the reporting of how that proposed Legislation goes. And, again, the burden of providing "Informed Consent" is wrongly being placed on "The Recipient" as opposed to "The Provider", as it's specifically being talked about in the article. (it's the equivalent of proposing that any one being arrested provide their Miranda Rights to the arresting Officer because they're accountable for the Officer deciding to arrest them!)

What strikes me as idiotic is prescribing all of this type of poison to small children in the guise of a hyper activity disorder treatment.

Not even a shot was fired.

Mother's Litte Helper aka Valium is a tranquilizer that relaxes the long muscles of the body. Rather mild, if not prescribed to an addictive type. But these antipsychotics have many strange and unknown effects on the brain and everything else!

you can rent from netflix "The Medicated Child" a PBS front-line program or buy from PBS. You think this article shocked ya. I feel for the children who are on these meds. And now infants. Just when you thought Wall Street was the problem. The drug companies, wall street, washington the regulator's there all in one big bed together.

I certainly don't get just how a dr. can determine if a small child is bi-polar. I have a sister in law that suffered for 10 years with mental health issues before Drs. decided she is bipolar. These small children can't talk or talk enough to even begin to understand what is going on with them. They can't say I feel sad, down and depressed and the next day I'm so excited, want to do everything and anything and just go, go, go. Why would any Dr. think this would be ok for children 18 months to 3-4, and in my opinion before they are 16. These toddlers are maybe just going through the terrible twos either earlier or later and just need a chance to grow with out being medicated. How in the world are they ever supposed to develop metally and emotionally when their brains are altered by chemical. Seems as if it would create many more problems and for a lifetime, than they would ever help. Parenting is tough, have kids age 30,21, 19, and 16. There are issues kids have that you just have to work thru rather than medicate!

Another popualtion that gets "experiment on is the disabled suffering with issues from mental retardation, develpomental delays and often times mental health diagnosis. The Dr.s will try various combinations of drugs, finally get an individual stable for a few weeks. Then they want to decrease the meds and see if they will still be doing well on a lower dose. I know that they have to try to have patients on the lowest chemical restraint possible but what ends up happening when after stablizing then decreasing meds is that they deteriorate back into violent or self abusive behavior, go into crisis then have to have the meds increased again. Having been a cargiver for over 24 years I've had to go to bat for my clients many times and argue for just leaving their meds alone for awhile so they can feel happy and healthy istead of being on a roller coaster ride of emotions constantly.

And for the general population, I have never in my life seen more people, many my co-workers, who various forms of mental illness from anxiety and panic attacks, depression, and being diagnosed bi-polar. I just don't see how so many people need to be medicated to get thru life. At one point I had alot going on and was stressed to where I felt I was at a breaking point. I took paxil for about 3 months. What I found was while it did help me feel calmer the problems I was going thru where still there and the only way to get thru it was to look at the problems, change every thing I could and either accept the things that I could not change or cut those things out of my life. People really need counseling for severe problems before Dr. says just take these meds and you'll be fine. If you don't fix the problems or work thru them to some type of resolution no matter how many drugs you take your not going to be fine. Insurance companies need to step up and provide more vists to mental health professionals instead of just paying for drugs. Some of these drugs are extremely expensive and 2-3 counseling sessions a month would in reality be more cost effective.

Let's put the blame where it belongs: Doctors are getting massive kickbacks from drug companies to rx these meds. Big Pharma is not interested in curing anybody, that's why they've stopped R&D on antibiotics: there's no money in that sort of thing. They're interested in getting somebody hooked. For $500 a month, they have no problem corrupting the health care delivery system or handing out vacations in Hawaii for big prescribers. And some folks wonder why we're paying so much for our health care and why it keeps going up....It has zero to do with medical malpractice lawsuits, I'll tell you that.

s. williams

drs certainly do not get kickbacks from prescribing meds. Sure, you can find some bad apples, but unless you have evidence of anything more than a handful of bad apples, youre guilty of fear-mongering and spreading baseless rumors

No doctor gets vacations in hawaii. Maybe a pen, thats it...nice try

i also think that this idea that DOs are somehow more "holistic" or interested in "wellness" than MDs is ridiculous, and the result of aggresive prosetylizing by their followers in order to justify their existence. Not saying that DOs are bad, they are educated in a different way. NOt better, not worse, not more focused on the "whole patient", just different

A friend of mine takes multiple antidepressants. She only sees the psychiatrist when she needs to refill her prescription. I asked if the doctor offered her therapy; she said no, not even when she comes back for her refills. Same thing for a friend whose child takes medications for ADD. A few years ago, in addition to the meds to control ADD, a child saw the doctor on a regular basis, so that s/he could learn coping skills and be taken off the meds as a teenager. Now, There is no therapy availablel, only a visit to get refills, and thank you for staying on the meds for life.

Eric have you been to a doctors office lately. The drug reps are lined up 10 deep five days aweek like horrors at Goldman Sachs. Handing out drugs like candy. Most doctors offices have there own drug cabinet they hand out drugs free to there patients to get them hooked. Oh you need to take this one and this one.

richard,

Eric have you been to a doctors office lately.

haha..does my own count? (lesson: do not assume)

At any rate, both of u)s know you are exaggerating when you say drug reps "are lined up 10 deep". If I spent 15 min with each one, thats 2.5-3 hours out of my day that im not seeing patients (and not getting paid)

Seeing as how I make money treating patients, and make no (and therefore actually lose) money spending time with drug reps, logic dictates I would deal with them as little as possible.

Not only that, why should I automatically do what they say? For pens with lipitor written on them? Really? The days of trips are over; prove me wrong otherwise

I mean, that has to make sense to you

The free market doctor system encourages a doctor to treat as many patients as possible. And with all the ads for drugs and the sensationalized (my take) push of the billion different mental quirks little Johnny can have, many patients have a pre-conceived notion as to what they want, BEFORE even talking to a doctor. So add those two factors up. It's just easier and more profitable to say, "Here, try this and come back in 30 days"... a patient for life with never-ending symptoms.

We incent doctors incorrectly... per visit instead of basing it on positive results. Ask any successful business person or supervisor. How you reward behavior provides incentive for behavior... even behaviors you don't care for.

lmarct,

firstly, medicine does not operate on a free market system. You do not feel the sudden need to see a doctor in an underserved area, do you?

But the bigger problem I have with your post is in the last paragraph. The idea that we should reward/pay doctors based on results...

The problem with that is that results depend on many factors, only one of which is what the physician does. Patient genetics, compliance, comorbidities, severity of illness, etc play a HUGE role

You can do everything right and a patient may still die; conversely, you can do nothing and a patient may live and recover.

So tying a drs salary to patient outcomes is probably not the best idea

the skyrocketing increase in the off-label use of an expensive class of drugs called atypical antipsychotics.

Where there is a dollar, there is a pill.

There have been reports that some of the older low-cost anti-Cancer drugs that can be more effective in fighting Cancer are deliberately being produced in inadequate quantities and are being withheld from the market. Contrarily, the newer more expensive anti-Cancer drugs that can be less effective in treating the disease are being produced in substantial quantities and are rushed to the market.

Medicine has become a "business" first.

The healing aspect of medicine is now last.

When calling a physician's office, the first question we hear is:

"What kind of insurance do you have?"

These drugs should only be prescribed by psychiatrists just as surgery should only be performed by trained surgeons.

Eric I thought you sounded like my X primary care doc. They walked out of the office with grocery bags of free drugs. He was even a DO. Eric watch THE MEDICATED CHILD from PBS a frontline episode. Not once in this documentary did the Doctor mention diet,exercise,behavior modification. Rent it from neflix or on demand or buy through PBS. I don't care who you are. I was even shocked. The problem with healthcare are the drug companies and of course doctor zoro with his knife. How about a little laying of the hands or take this herb or that herb. Do you see how people eat today. That alone is enough to make one sick. Fast food,prepared mirowavable,loaded with sodium and words you can't even pronounce MSG,GMO

those free drugs go to people who can't afford them most of the time

I don't care about a documentary...its not fact, just opinion

herbs aren't fda approved or have proven efficacy...maybe from drug co interference, maybe not.
Fact remains, unproven

people eat garbage, agreed

herbs aren't FDA approved. Funny coming from a DO. What do you think your grandmother used? The prescription drug market is 70+ years old if that. What do you think they did before A.D. ran down to the corner drug store. Native cultures including our own American Indians still use herbs. Think maybe your what's wrong with health-care?

a)when did I say I was a DO? Cause im not....

b)they aren't approved. Thats a fact. Im sorry you don't like that, but thats the way it is

c)they may or may not be effective...I don't know. But until they are subjected to the rigors of testing by the FDA (which still lets in some bad apples DESPITE this process) I can't recommend them to patients. It may consititue malpractice if I did. If you have some strong evidence of their effectiveness, I'd like to see it

d) yes, they were being used 70+ years ago when people died from diarrhea or cutting their hand, or something else completely ridiculous that made the average life expectancy 20 years shorter than what it is today. I can't see how this is a strong argument for you

I agree with Eric and others that it is a common misconception to think that most doctors these days are somehow in the pockets of big pharma. They can't even bring us breakfast or free pens anymore if we work in a public hospital. Yes there are a few physicians that get fancy trips and such to speak at a conference but those are the exceptions and not the rule. They do supply free med samples hoping to increase prescribing but that influence is limited and those often go to the poorest of patients. These days pharmaceutical companies focus more money on direct marketing to patients who come in and say they need xyz because the TV or internet said so. A friend's husband is a pharm rep and he says TV/internet is infinitely more effective than courting physicians for drug sales as many patients will now doctor shop until they find that one physician who will prescribe it for them.

As far as herbal treatments: I know many may disagree and you have that right, but I totally agree with the FDA not approving herbs for prescribed medical treatment of most if any conditions. That's not to say that some would or would not work. Yes, I know many early medications originally came from various plants and quite a few still are derived from plant origins. I also know that in my psychopharmacology and organic chem classes we studied the various effects of some herbs and how some did produce benefical psychiatric effects. However, that does not mean a physician can prescribe them and have any strong level of confidence that they will produce the desired effect, no effect, or not even a harmful effect.

The major issue with approving/prescribing/taking assorted herbs is that regulating the dosage of the drug entering your system is a a roll of the dice at best. Factors involving the age of the particular plant, genetics, it's growth phase, the season, temperature, soil conditions, etc. all effect the amounts of the beneficial/toxic substance in a particular plant. (If you don't believe me, you can ask any marijuana smoker about manipulating concentrations through environmental means.) Not to even mention problems with the preparation and delivery method, product purity, age and weight of the patient, etc.

Without going into detail about dosage response curves and such, basically you start with no effect and as concentration increases you reach a minimally effective dosage that can quickly become moderately effective or even potentially toxic. That's basically what the drug companies do is determine the dosages for effectiveness without it becoming toxic if taken as recommended. Then they manufacture and package it in a form that those dosages can be measured. The FDA approves that recommended dosage if it produces the desired outcomes and doesn't seriously harm or kill people. Many may not think so, but more often than not they do get it right.

I know I left a lot out and over simplified a bit, but because of the above and other reasons, herbs that aren't found to have serious side effects will at best remain nutritional supplements and never be approved for medically prescribed usage by the FDA the way it currently is designed. I personally don't have a problem with that.

Mike your comments on herbal dosage were well taken. I think the producers of these products have done a great job in product safety and dosage requirements same goes for herbal teas. I don't want to get off the subject of anti-psychotics and the Doctors that prescribe them. Eric thinks documentaries are not fact but opinion. The documentary that I mentioned The Medicated Child just so happened to interview the Doctor's themselves that prescribe these drugs. My point being with anyone being prescribed these drug's that alternatives were never discussed or an option for these particular set of Doctor's for the symptom's being presented.

Richard, Sadly there are numerous cases where "organic" "natural" herbal products have been found to not contain the items listed, contain items that were so old that they were of no nutritional value, or even worse contain toxins. There is almost no regulation for herbals, so there's little testing unless people start becoming severely ill. Quite a few of the toxic ones were produced in bulk in China and shipped to the US where they were bottled with fancy organic healthy sounding names with no indication where they were from. I personally do use and like organic teas and totally agree that there are proven health benefits BUT I'd never prescribe such to treat an ailment, as the empirical support may be there for general positive effects (same as certain vegetables) but it's lacking for specific treatments from specific manufacturers.

Also for others reading this: People should ALWAYS tell their physicians when they are taking supplements or herbal products as some may cause toxic effects or inhibit the effects of medications. I've experienced this quite often with those suffering from mental illness who consume herbal products that are contraindicated when taking their prescribed medications but failed to tell their gp who initially prescribed antipsychotics and other meds.

As far as the discussion with Eric, I actually agree that documentaries are greatly opinion peices, because they are typically told from a limited perspective and only a snapshot in time. That doesn't mean they aren't informative!! or beneficial!!, just not empirically supportive of a particular topic.

As far as psychiatric meds/alternatives, I work with many physicians who are very willing to promote alternatives such as changes in diet and exercise (very very few recommend herbals) before writing a prescription. I also work with many who use the tools they were well trained to use - medications. When talking with them, most that are quick to prescribe pills do so because the majority of patients aren't going to try the alternatives. I run into that quite often with patients who would prefer an antidepressant than to spend a few months in therapy to address the underlying problem to begin with.

As a social worker, I have seen plenty of kids who need to be medicated; however, three is too young in my opinion. Most docs won't assess a child for mental illness or ADHD until the child reaches 6. With that being said, if you have a child who is harming themselves or others without regard, then a doc will prescribe something to chill their little azzes out.

My doc prescribed seroquel for me years ago when I went through a terrible episode of insomnia. Trazodone and zoloft didn't work, but that seroquel knocked me out! I slept so good on it, it was awesome and just what I needed. I don't have to take it anymore, but it is a relief to me to know that something like that is out there for insomniacs like me. Sounds to me like the author is assuming to know more than doctors do. I trust my doc a lot more than I trust some article on MSN that is meant to dram up controversy.

Our society has changed. It is not natural. Our schedules are too rigid. We will continue to see a rise in prescription mental health drugs until the demands of our society slow to a tolerable level.

Nope. My daughter (now 6 1/2) is typical of most children her age. The issue was (and is) that my wife and mother in law are lazy and do not want to be bothered with spending the requisite time required to raise a child. far easier to plant them in from of TV, computer, etc...

BTW, as long as I breathe, I will not let ANYONE "chill my daughters azz out"...

Excellent comment Liberty.

The social worker seems to be more interested in making children into zombies so her work is easier.

Years ago, a school recommended "treatment" for my son. Even a psychiatrist can't provide any medical tests to back up any of their diagnosis, much less a teacher.

We refused and he grew up just fine.

If one psychiatrist had ever cured anyone of anything ever, they might have more credibility.

Autumn needs her azz chilled out, and of course a new line of work.

I somehow doubt that Autumn is an actual social worker. She'd have made a far more intelligent and neutral statement than one that promotes drug use.

Most parents look for things to be wrong with their kids. Now days the news, papers, and even educators like to harp on kids who may have a little extra energy, or may not have as long attention span as his desk mate, suddenly the kid has ADDHD or is bi-polar or has some sort of horrible mental condition. Most of the time? They're just kids being kids, but in this day and age, that's not possible.

Yes, there are.

• so ALL DRUGS PREGNANCY-RELATED, all of it because DOCTORS DONT WANT TO BE AWAKE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

Doctors will rather practice an UNNECESARRY C-section.

• How to turn down commisions from the pharmaceutical companies for using their brand ???

For your daughters sake I hope you get her off the Thorazine. First of all it's a very old, old drug, it's one of the very first anti psychotics to be put on the market. It has horrible side effects. I have given tons of that stuff over the years to mental patients and you should see how it effects them. They have to be protected from the sun because the skin will turn blue and it's not reversible, another side effect is weight gain. I've seen people look like fat, purple grapes. Get your little girl off that stuff.

Sadly, I've seen a lot of parents come in with a young child (less than 4 years old) and profess that the child MUST has ADHD, Bipolar, schizophrenia or some other disorder because they've read about it on the internet. I've also had parents tell me that their child must have something wrong because they don't act like most other young children and their basis is from what they've unrealistically seen as "good" children on TV or movies. Many parents have doctor shopped until they've found a physician who will write a prescription to "calm" their child down because if you see enough physicians and appear extreme enough you'll find one that will agree.

Not saying that a young child couldn't have such disorders BUT it's rare and extremely extremely difficult to diagnose (Autism, Mental Retardation and some others excluded) these behavioral related disorders in a very young child and almost always it's a case of the parent's ability to cope is strained or their pre-school or daycare is complaining.

Unless a child is a danger to themselves or others I'd most always recommend non-medication interventions first and quite often it can be helpful for parents to have a little therapy (not to treat a "disorder") but to help them learn what is normal childhood behavior AND importantly how to cope with children being children. Getting insurance to pay for such is difficult at best.

I've never ever recommended or considered it appropriate for a child to get meds to "chill" them out and at one time I was even an inner city special school teacher.

Liberty, I'm very sorry to hear of your daughter being on Thorazine. That is not a good thing. Though I'm not a medical doctor, it makes sense that she is far too young.

From what you have said about your wife and mother in law, it seems rather harsh. If the level of stress they are experiencing in raising the child comes from your lack of involvement (that is unless you have to work away from where you live or are deployed overseas), then roll up your sleeves and pitch in and help. My sister in law doesn't work outside the home, because she is raising my two nieces, but sometimes she needs a helping hand. Women require emotional support from their men as well.

@Liberty, please tell me you're planning on taking your child off of that medication.

One of my friends have a son who was recommended to be put on drugs when he was in kindergarten. They refused and when they moved into their new house in a different town the teacher in his new school thought he was the best thing since peanut butter. He was just a busy inquisitive kid who didn't want to sit still for hours on end. The first school preferred zombies.

As a social worker, I have seen plenty of kids who need to be medicated;

Autumn, please explain what professional medical or psychological training or credentials you have that allows you to come to that kind of conclusion.

Liberty is right about some of these "older" medications. Some patients with MR/DD have been on them for decades and often it takes that long to truly know what the total of damage to the person is from these drugs. The problem now is that the current "new" medications will likely to show over the next few decades that they are just as bad as the "old" ones. Liberty if you haven't done so yet get that childs meds reduced and get her weaned off of them ASAP!!!!!

When I read up on the side effects of the Thorazine, and how it was used in cases of LCD overdose, etc. it was a fairly easy argument to make with spouse that it was not an option.

My daughter behaves like many girls (kids) her age. She whines, fusses, complains, fights with her little brother and tells me she loves me once in a while.

Like i said, while I'm around, my girl will not be given meds to control behavior. That's what parents, teachers and us "adults" are for. Now if only I could find some meds that would get her to eat vegetables! :)

Hey gang. Well for those of you who don't think that some kids need to be medicated, let me just introduce you to my world for just a moment. These kids who need to be medicated are from parents who have abused drugs and alcohol in utero, thereby screwing up their precious little brains so that chemically they don't function like regular folks. Sorry guys, but I see this crap on a daily basis. You can argue against my point all day long, but until you see and interact with the kids who can't sit still in class, who get mad and throw chairs at their teachers, who bang their heads against the wall to get attention, you won't really know what I'm talking about. I am not saying that normal kids with minor behavior problems need to be "zombified." But certain kids are a danger to themselves and others without medication.

Your points are on one side of the spectrum, mine is on the other. Our opinions on this matter should meet somewhere in the middle.

As far as my credentials go, I have worked for over 10 years in the mental health field. I'm certainly not an expert, but I have seen the positive side to certain medications and the way they affect brain chemistry. With that being said, I have also seen kids who do NOT need to be medicated, and I advocate for them to be re-assessed. I really do have the best interest of people at heart. Please don't assume otherwise. You haven't even met me. I am not just an armchair psychologist. I live this everyday. And I do love my job. I encourage more of you to get involved with people with disabilities and mental illness in your communities. It will change your life.

A doctor has no financial gain in prescribing a medication.

GetReal-5062607

A doctor has no financial gain in prescribing a medication.

Aside from all expense paid trips to luxury resorts in order to attend seminars you mean?

GetReal

ROFLMAO

Sorry to burst your bubble. I used to date a maxillofacial surgeon. They get everything short of a check written directly to them.

You guys are wrong. Big pharma really does not give anything to physicians these days. Everyone seems to think big pharma and physicians are in bed together and that they take physicians on whirlwind trips to Thailand and Bali so they can write their drugs. Well consider this your re-education.

I'm a practicing physician in gastroenterology. When I see a drug representative around the clinic, I avoid them. I don't like talking to them because I'm too busy to listen to them. Furthermore, I resent them trying to tell me why I should prescribe their medication. I'll decide what I want to write. My decision ALWAYS boils down to what is the most effective medication for the condition that costs the least to the patient. Pharmaceutical reps will bring lunch to the clinic so that they can have a moment of our time to push their products. I eat their food and try to avoid them. That takes place in practically every business in the United States. Nothing wrong there. I have received absolutely NOTHING in return for writing a prescription to a patient. Pharmaceutical companies and pharmacies gain financially from that. I'm sorry, as much as people would like to moan and complain about the fact that pharma and physicians are in bed together, it just isn't true.

I agree that in your field it is much less prevalent, and an ethical doctor such as yourself can retain their own self determinism.

Much of the problem is in the pseudo sciences such as psychiatry, not in the real science that you practice.

There is a lot of congressional testimony on record about this practice in fields other than yours.

Actually a big part of the problem is that we are a "feel good society that want immediate results"........ People really are part of the problem.

Unfortunately the company I worked for changed insurance companies and instead of seeing my long term family Dr. that brought the last 2 of my 4 kids into the world I have to go to a corporate medical facility. My old family Dr. knowing how much medicines cost and what isurance will pay and our families tight budget this Dr. would give us as much "sample" medication as they had on hand and always said check back with me before you need more and I'll give you samples if I have them in so you don't have to fill these expensive scripts. I know it helped my family a great deal. These "company" medical clinics don't care if you don't have co-pay $, if you don't have cash you don't get your meds from their pharmacies and they don't ever give samples. Wish I could be back at my old family physicians office for a multitude of reason. They actually care about all their patients as people rather than a member # on a plastic card.

A doctor has no financial gain in prescribing a medication.

@Get Real

So, basically you're telling us that the physician who owns hundreds, if not thousands of shares in a pharmaceutical companies stock doesn't make any money when that companies stock prices go up?

Is that correct? Or do I have it completely wrong?

The facts of the matter are, some doctors do own stock in pharmaceutical companies, and if they do, they are more apt to prescribe medications from the companies they own stock in, in hopes that the stock price of the company will go up so they can make a little bit of money from them.

@randy

So, basically you're telling us that the physician who owns hundreds, if not thousands of shares in a pharmaceutical companies stock doesn't make any money when that companies stock prices go up?

Is that correct? Or do I have it completely wrong?

Yea, you have it completely wrong. Firstly, ANYONE who owns stock in a company makes money when the stock price goes up. Why limit your comment to physicians

Unless you think physicians commonly own "thousands" of shares of stock in pharma companies. If you do, I would love to see your citation...otherwise, frankly, your speaking out of your backside

Steve Reid, I had the same problem with our school with my son. They kept insisting he was ADD even though I had 2 pediatric neurologists and a pediatric psychiatrist say that he was not ADD. They kicked him out of the school district at the end of third grade (the problem was the teacher, who was new and very inconsistent). At first I was upset, but the teacher at the school he ended up going to saw in the first couple of days that my son was nothing like our home district claimed he was. He thrived for two years under her, finished high school and went to college, where he bloomed. The difference was the other teacher was more consistant with her requirements in the classroom and let the children know the consequences for not following the rules. She was strict, but not rigid, nor did she want "perfect little zombies" in her classroom.

How did I land up in section 5 when I clicked "reply" under section 2?

one other thing randy,

You think that I can alter the stock of a multi-billion dollar corporation like Astra Zeneca by myself, by prescribing a few more of their pills

I could do nothing but prescribe lipitor all day long and do absolutely nothing to the value of the company. They are quite a bit too big to be affected by one doctors prescribing habits

You have a lot to learn about the stock market

Eric,

Yes, drug companies are publically traded companies and thus interested only in the bottom line: profit. They would not send out drug reps to shill their drugs if they did not know for a fact that it was making them money and lots of it. You may not respond to them, but guaranteed enough docs are and it earns them billions of dollars.

And although you may think you are uninfluenced by them, the mere fact that doctors are now prescribing more meds than they ever have in the past, indicates that most mds are buying into the pharma "solution" over alternative therapies. Most MDs know virtually nothing about nutrition and would prescribe lipitor before educating their patient about changing their diet. Additionally, you are relying on research that they, the drug companies, have paid for in order to determine which drugs are "most effective" or even whether a drug is safe.

We are fast becoming a nation of drug-dependent people and it's not the pharma companies who are writing all the prescriptions.

Yes, drug companies are publically traded companies and thus interested only in the bottom line: profit.

Never denied this

They would not send out drug reps to shill their drugs if they did not know for a fact that it was making them money and lots of it. You may not respond to them, but guaranteed enough docs are and it earns them billions of dollars.

hmmm...kind of right. Drug reps aren't useless...they can inform of new indications just approved, new insurance information regarding coverage of their drug, and answer questions about the medication. So of course, through some of these mechanisms the drugs are being prescribed more often. More importantly though, when I new drug comes out, I research it myself, consider all options, and prescribe it to a patient based on all available data and my clinical acumen. The drug rep plays a tiny, if any at all, role in my decision making. But some people on here are suggesting that drs recieve direct financial support in return for prescribing their meds, and/or are completely under their spell. Thats ridiculous. And your leap of logic that connects increasing drug profits with drug reps with absolutely no evidence of a connection is equally as ridiculous

nd although you may think you are uninfluenced by them, the mere fact that doctors are now prescribing more meds than they ever have in the past, indicates that most mds are buying into the pharma "solution" over alternative therapies.

Wrong. Docs are prescribing more meds than ever because...there are now more meds than ever. 50 years ago we only had a handful of antibiotics, and the treatment for a heart attack was bedrest. Now we have a full armementarium of antibiotics to fight off infections which would surely have been fatal, and acute heart attack treatment consists of at least 5 meds which have all been conclusively proven both by drug supported trials AND independent NIH funded research to save lives. Not because of drug reps, as you claim. Thats absurd, and honestly demonstrates an ignorance of medical practice, no offense

Most MDs know virtually nothing about nutrition and would prescribe lipitor before educating their patient about changing their diet.

So, what med school did you graduate from? Thats right, you didn't go. And you didn't complete a residency. So the truth is you have no idea what I know of nutrition. The truth is quite enough. I tell all my patients to eat right, if I don't prescribe meds OR even if I do. The idea that they are mutually exclusive is, again, absurd. I gain nothing from prescribing a medication, and would happily throw my lipitor in the garbage if my patients all ate fruits and veggies and whole grains and exercised an hour a day. You must not be very into current events though, because if you turned on the tv or opened a newspaper you would see that we as a nation are getting fatter, exercising less, and generally being as unhealthy as possible. So, while I very much enjoyed your fairy tale about everyone eating right and not needing meds, Im afraid until that day comes, I'll just go and rescue my lipitor from the trash

Additionally, you are relying on research that they, the drug companies, have paid for in order to determine which drugs are "most effective" or even whether a drug is safe.

Incorrect. Im relying on a plausible biologic mechanism, the teachings of attendings smarter than both of us, NIH funded independent research, the FDA, and my own clinical experience and judgement, AND drug co studies. So you are 1% right...so far the best of your post so far

Your last sentence is meaningless and not worth a rebuttal

What leap of logic? Drug reps exist because they make money for drug companies. If they didn't bring in profits, they would be obsolete.

So you admit doctors prescribe more drugs simply because more drugs exist. Wow...

Being "smart" has nothing to do with knowing if a drug is safe or effective, and if you think the NIH and FDA are independent of BigPharma, then might want to do a little more research on that topic.

So who is responsible for the increasing pharma dependency of Americans?

What leap of logic? Drug reps exist because they make money for drug companies. If they didn't bring in profits, they would be obsolete.

Ummm...this leap of logic

send out drug reps to shill their drugs if they did not know for a fact that it was making them money and lots of it.

The leap that suggests that drug reps were responsible for drug companies profits. I successfully refuted that point by telling you that drug reps are an insignificant factor in a dr's prescription habits. Drs arent stupid. They know these guys are salesman. Just as you wouldn't automatically buy a shirt in a store because the saleslady says it looks fantastic, you would automatically prescribe a medication just because some salesperson says its the best. I didn't go to school for most of my life just to abdicate my responsibilty and duty to someone less qualified.

If you disagree, just simply find me evidence to the contrary. Otherwise, its just your WAG

So you admit doctors prescribe more drugs simply because more drugs exist. Wow..

Im not sure why you are suprised by this...its basic logic. Not only that, you purposely left out the most important part of my statement: we prescribe more drugs because more exist now THAT SAVE LIVES. For example, if someone has a heart attack, and they leave the hospital without a prescription for an ACE inhibitor, I'll have to explain why to the hospital, the government, and the plantiff's attorney. ACE inhibitiors didn't exist 50 years ago. So now they are prescribed more than they were when they didnt exist

Im really shocked that that simple fact not only escaped you, but made you say "wow. Its really quite simple

Being "smart" has nothing to do with knowing if a drug is safe or effective

haha..so what does? Being dumb? On the contrary...if you are smart enough to recognize potential drug interactions, and competent enough to keep up with scientific journals, the lay press, word of mouth, and your patient's feedback, you can certainly make an educated conclusion about a drug's safety and efficacy.

and if you think the NIH and FDA are independent of BigPharma, then might want to do a little more research on that topic.

Im not aware of any credible sources that seriously undermine the NIH and FDA. Why don't you enlighten me

So who is responsible for the increasing pharma dependency of Americans

Americans

eric-2573068

Dr. Eric

Not going to jump into this, but please google "glyconutrients."

ive never heard that term, but it struck me as made up. It has a ring of pseudo-science to it...like if I suddenly called a substance a lipoanalogue...two terms that mean something alone, but together make no sense whatsoever

Of course there are no trials, no evidence supporting anything about this substance, but here's the most scientific, reasonable article I could find on the subject after googling it:

http://www.raysahelian.com/glyconutrients.html

My diagnosis: another waste of time fad that has no evidence and preys upon people looking for the holy grail of disease fighting

that would be the longest lasting fad ever . . . almost twenty years.

so in that period of time it must have accumulated overwhelming evidence of its efficacy

Please, please share it....

http:

//mannatechsci

ence.o

rg/home/publi

cations

so in 20 years you have a few trials totalling less than 100 people with suppossed benefits. Note there are NO independent verifications of these results, only the companies word....

You gotta do better than that, dude

hey, i just finished reading your studies and boy did you fall for it big time!

They basically brought in college kids FASTING since breakfast, and fed them either a sugar solution or placebo and tested reaction time.

Now let me ask you someting--do you work better when youve skipped a meal or when youve eaten a reasonable meal (not something so heavy that you fall asleep, mind you)

OF course you do better not hungry when your blood glucose levels aren't bottoming out. You dont need a study or fancy sugar water to tell you that

Whats your next "miracle cure"? Pancakes?

Hahahaha...i can't BELIEVE you fell for that...next time READ the studies

LOL! No!

"Health Care for all" and "Pharmaceutical Companies" are 2 different things aren't they?

Who do you think gives the most money to Congress and the Executive Office political campaigns? Drug companies!!!

I'm sure they will take care of us all.

@ American Pauper and a few others,

The drugs (tools,) that you believe should not be prescribed can help tens-of-thousands of folks return to the baseline that so many take for granted. At baseline, these otherwise mentally crippled individuals will have a fighting chance to seek employment and lead a normal life.

Let me put this another way: Which is less costly, a few prescribed meds every month for an individual with employment goals, or to pay for these folks to be locked behind a door forever?

Not_So...what you say is the rosy picture painted by those making money off the industry. The drugs in question are little more than dope that makes a lot of money for those in the industry and "neutralizes" these folks. They could go binge drink every day and get the same results: always lethargic; don't know whether they are coming or going; dizzy; and eventually have liver problems. It is a joke to think anyone will hire people with the "crazy" label...these folks are usually just the outcasts of society (the ugly undesirables that people are trying to get rid of any way).

Except apparently pills to help prevent unplanned or unwanted pregnancy. In that case, the government may restrict your ability to gets those pills if your employer objects to them.

I'm surprised the "faith-based" insurance companies and businesses haven't already stopped covering mental health drugs. Afterall, everyone knows that if you are mentally ill, you have demons inside you caused by living a sinful life. And that is a choice, right?

The Mental Health Industry is about social control, rather than help...it is an industry dedicated to keeping people in their "proper" place. The Drug industry is just a business that uses the Medical and Psychiatric Industries...they don't care about your health (as long as their drugs aren't so toxic that they kill you before they can get 20 or 30 years of income from you), they just care about profit. Their job is to convince you that you need a pill for everything in life....funny thing is...most people are mindless and will buy into anything an "authority figure" tells them. Go get a guy like Michael Douglas to tell the populace to go jump off a bridge (because it is God's Will) and probably about 90% of people will go and do it.

Actually worked in a residential home for the mentally ill back in the late 80's for a year. The owners actually did believe that the folks residing their did have demons and had some of the residents believing it.

Hahaha! Anita, there is too a pill for unwanted/unplanned pregnancy, and you don't have to get it from the government! Didn't anyone ever tell you to take an aspirin and put it between your knees?? Just jokin'!

Yes the doorman said feed your head!

Don't forget all the future medications they will be a client for in order to cope with the initial medications side effects. For instance I was having an adverse reaction to the antibiotic I was prescribed for an infected tooth, so I was prescribed prednisone which caused my blood pressure to rise, then my doctor prescribed me a "low dose long established minimum side effect medication", and then had me come in for a diabetes screening a week later. Went online and discovered common side effect of that particular blood pressure med frequently has a side effect of raising the blood sugar, so if I HAD been prediabetic, it most likely would have pushed me over the edge for that. I would soon have been a prescription drug customer for life. Instead in addition to not taking the prednisone, I made adjustments to my diet lowering my Ph with more veggies and put more emphasis on stress reducers like more sleep and yoga and voila! blood pressure elevation went away.

Nothing like taking responsibility for one's self, including health and lifestyle. Good on you, Susan! Feels gooooood, doesn't it!

You can get off these drugs. Paxil is extremely unpleasant--about 6 weeks of feeling like one is coming off heroin (been there, done that)--but it can be done. If a person decides to get off them and has a couple of months during which someone very patient will look after him/her, one can get off the meds.

The only good part is that one has no desire to get back on them--they aren't addictive in the sense that one gets cravings for them because they do not work like an opiate (there is no high).

It is best to read up on side effects. A lot of doctors just prescribe the meds without talking it over with the patient to see what the patient would rather do. My practice now is to get the prescription, then go home and look the drug up online. I do not necessarily fill the prescription if I decide that I'd rather deal with the symptoms or take some sort of homeopathic treatment or make a lifestyle change.

Perhaps we should all realize that just because the doctor hands us a prescription, this does not mean we have to fill it. It's a recommendation, not a command. And, one can go see other sorts of caregivers--it's expensive to get massages, for example, a couple of times a week--but if the cost of the med is about the same, the massages are probably the better idea. Meditation is good; yoga is good for those who can do it (well, unless one has one of those instructors who screams--a CD to imitate might be better). Even joining a church (not all are evangelical Christian--there's the Unitarian church, for example) can be helpful.

A lot of us have cut ourselves off from activities that can provide support--we work, we go home to our cocoons, and we see the doctors--and perhaps it is this isolation that contributes to the problem. But, yes, I think we should all start to regard the piece of paper as no more than a recommendation and make our own informed decisions. I love WebMD and recommend it highly.

Thanks for your post, Beanie. Most of us are taught to believe that a doctor is an authority figure and if he/she prescribes you a pill, it's good for you. Many actors in the 50's and 60's believed it and because there weren't many drugs out there at the time, many of them became hopelessly addicted to some very bad meds.

You also made the excellent point that we isolate ourselves because of the stresses of holding down a job (the only way most of us can get or afford insurance), that it's the isolation or "all work and no play" that leads into depression and similar illnesses. If on Medicaid, then many people can't afford to see a therapist or get a massage or go to yoga class.

Yoga is AMAZING and lots of health benefits, good for stress relief and pain management as well. Stress and chronic pain also lead to depression.

Some people are just unfortunately born with a chemical imbalance, while others acquire it due to life imbalances.

I was going to post a comment, but you pretty much just wrote it for me. :)

Once again, physicians do not gain financially from prescribing medications. Pharmacists and the drug companies do.

We get free lunch at our office, courtesy of pharmacy reps selling snake oil.

I know of several drug companies that started by selling their stock to physicians. The companies would then make their own versions of cheap generic drugs but with a trade name which sold for much more than the same generic.

Why did the government ever let drug companies advertise Rx drugs directly to the consumer? That move insured that drug costs would increase.

get real...you don't have to lie to make friends. I have been to enough free sporting events with prime seating, eaten plenty of free meals, and played golf at some world class courses. All of which were paid in full by the pharma company to the doctors in the practice. Now do some quick research to see how much these doctors are actually getting paid from big pharma. Not for peddling pills per se, but the doctors that tend to prescribe larger quantities of drugs will get a free trip to somewhere, plus a hefty hefty paycheck for being a "guest speaker" at a doctor's conference.

So again, please shut up with your lies already.

Read my post above big guy. It isn't even close to happening at my clinic. You are a prime example of the missperception of the pharmaceutical industry and physicians. I don't believe your post for a second. I guarantee you this, there is not one physician in my area that gets a "kickback" from pharma for writing "X" number of prescriptions. It's a myth and lemme tell ya something, I would know better than you because I am certainly in the crosshairs of several pharmaceutical companies because I prescribe some high dollar medications for Crohn's disease.

Prescribers receive NOTHING from pharm companies for prescribing their medications! 10 years ago golf trips, elaborate dinners, and many "gifts" containing drug logos were provided. This is illegal now and has been for several years.

Get Real, you probably belong to an ethical clinic that wants no part of that and ignores the pharma reps. Even though my doctor is excellent and very caring and thorough, he shares a practice with several other doctors and I swear every time I go in there, there is some pharma rep there. Seems like Wednesdays are the days they congregate. He may want no part of it either, but that doesn't stop the gaggle from coming.

Just because it doesn't happen where you are doesn't mean it doesn't exist elsewhere because you don't see it.

lemur lady,

Not true in my practice either. Dont make the erroneous assumption that just because drug reps are present, that they exert their iron will on the physician.

Anyone with half a brain realizes that they are just salesman representing their companies' interest. If you know this, then it is pretty pompous not to think that the fairly educated physician doesn't know it as well

bobby is either lying or speaking of events that took place years ago as jane correctly points out.

However where I live, Janet, the doctors (specialists and gp's) do not believe in letting a person try to control problems such as high bp or borderline diabetes with diet. They immediately prescribe medications and say that this is the current belief. I agree with your assessment about bad side effects. My mother was very sensitive to the combination of her meds, but when I would bring it up to the doctors, they said they had many patients on the same meds without problems and that the pharma companies had to list side effects even if only one in 10,000 had the problem. I asked what if my mother was that one person? They all just laughed. However, her bp and cholesterol meds caused her blood sugar to go up. So the endocrinologist prescribed a stronger med for the sugar, but her diabetes meds caused edema, so instead of changing it, a diaretic was added to the mix. That in turn caused kidney problems. All of the doctors were well aware of what meds she was on; they just didn't know how they interacted with each other. When she ended up in a nursing home, the doctor there prescribed an antidepressant because they thought she was delusional and depressed (of course she was depressed being in a nursing home, duh!). The delusion was that she said the doctor on Oprah was her doctor. They didn't believe her, not even when I told them that Dr. Oz had done her bypass surgery some years earlier. Some of these healthcare providers live in a world of their own.

Drs. have to overbook patients as it is. Then when you do see the dr. you often get only 10 mins. and get cut off wether your done talking/asking questions of your Dr. or not. And it's not becasue they couldn't spend more time it's because company Drs. have a quota to meet to be productive and private practice Drs. have to do so to stay in business. Private Drs. also bear the high costs of medical malpractice insurance out-of-pocket where corporate Drs. don't. The problem I see is that alot of these corporation Drs. care more about the security of their consistant paycheck than they do the patients.

Well I don't think anyone goes into medicine for the purpose of declaring bankruptcy. "Company" or "Private," the bottom line is that if you're not breaking even then you can't keep caring for people, period.

Well if you have for example kaiser Peramanete as your medical provider your paying a huge premium monthly and a lot of people don't go to the Dr. more than once or twice a year. So for the company those patients are all profit and cover others who see Drs. more frequently. They also mark up their drugs so don't lose money there either. BTW what happened to the oath Drs. take to "do no harm"??? Over prescribing meds, especially to toddlers and young children that they "claim" are" bi-polar" seems to me to be "harm". Getting anybody stuck on medications or having to take multiple meds instead of trying lifestyle changes 1st seems to be harm. Did you read Mercurys' post? It happens everyday. Medicine is supposed to be about healing 1st. If they want to make a fortune they should become plastic surgeons! And Drs. who think more about their bottom line than the best interests of their patients they messed up and should have been poltical science majors and headed to congress other political office where the laws they make allow them to make sure their bottom line is met and then some.

The pampered generation has been doing it fair share of pharma forever, hopefully the pharma generation will see that it really isn't really working.

Not as dangerous in the short term or long term.

They are all bad on the liver...........

I'm a US Army veteran. I take Paxil, and have for years. Paxil is WAY WORSE than cannabis!... Probaly about the same (possibly worse) as alcohol. Paxil is HIGHLY addictive... Yes, PHYSICALLY addictive... Go to youtube and search paxil withdrawal. Alot of these people seem to be exagerating, but I can tell you from my real life experience, in all honesty... Paxil is EXTREMELY addictive... if I am without it for more that 1-2 days, I go through withdrawal that is worse than anything I have EVER experienced in my life. Extreme anxiety, extreme rage, sweating, shaking, trembling, flu-like symtoms, light-headed, dizzy, and the infamous "electric shocks". This is NOT an exageration... I promise you... I get these "things". It is hard to describe, but I literally feel like someone is shocking me with a tazer in the back of my neck, and it travels up to my head. I have no reason to lie. I won't be suing Paxil, because I NEED it. I cannot imagine ANY drug having worse withdrawal symptoms than Paxil... even heroin or crack. I have been taking it for years. It DOES help some, but I am COMPLETELY addicted, and will NEVER be able to stop taking it... EVER. It IS that simple.

Your Dr. can help you get off of the med. You will probably be hospitalized and will need some time but there are ways. And I'm not talking about "cold turkey". If you need it why bother?

Some are just as dangerous. Many are far more dangerous than pot. Some are a whole lot more dangerous than pot or alcohol.

Just sayin. It's to bad you have so much trouble with paxil. For 4 fours now I have been on various meds from an injury causing nerve damge. The only drugs I had trouble going off of were oxycontin to morphine. The corporate Dr. and company didn't want to pay for oxycontin. I had taken my pill in the am, went to Dr. in afternoon when he said he was changing my medication. Picked up the morphine that afternoon and took the first pill that night. Spent the entire weekend in horrible pain symptoms much like a serve flu. My husband said he thought I was having withdrawl. Dr. confirmed this on Mon. Corporate Dr. didn't bother to let me know this could happen much less prepare me for it. Worst experience of my life with a drug! Now I just have a pain patch I change every 3 days. Much better. If I do run out of patches though the pain gets intense but no withdrawl symptoms thank goodness. You really should talk with your Dr. or seek a 2nd opinion for something that would work for you better. Should not have to go thru that .

I don't know about cheaper. You can probably get a month's supply of generic Valium (TM) for $4.00 cash. There are now lots of cheap and effective generic drugs on the market.

william,

couple things. First off, i would hardly call 4 years of med school and 3 years of residency "poor training" and "little expertise". And yes, from firsthand knowledge there are many didactic sessions spent dealing with psychiatry and anti psychotic use. And plenty of patients managed on those meds cared for by GPs

The fact is, william, that by following the plan you imply, ie letting only psychiatrists prescribe those meds will not work for the simple reason that there aren't enough of them to handle ALL those patients.