Yes, insurance should only be for the rich............. (rolls eyes)

Jersey Bob you hit the nail right on the head.

This country is only great when we all get to play. The Rich think they should get all the money and do nothing for it. They have stolen the money the working people have worked all there life's for and put into 401k's. When the market crashed all the money was wiped out. Well it didn't just disappear, someone took it. Or the market is just a Phantom and that money never did existed. Either way the working people got ripped off, and the rich people got richer. The rich peoples money was protected, they never loose. I remember when that guy bought out Easteren Air lines. Then he went in and took the retirement money and split up the company and sole it off and walked away with all that money. If a real person stole some food to feed his family, he would get 10 years in prison for it. But when rich people steel millions, Well that just fine. That is not what made and or makes this country great. That is what has bankrupted us morally, Spiritually. And the crooks are always hiding behind God. The steel everything and lay the blame on everyone else.

Sarcasm Eric.

Steve - did you read the article? Insurer's raised rates expected an increase in costs that haven't materialized, and they have to refund those funds back to consumers if they haven't used 80-85% on plan coverage. I imagine it'll be several years before they figure out an accurate formula, it'll take new actuarial tables.

Steve: Please don't let the facts interfere with what Faux news has spewed.

chuck -- for this discussion would you be kind enough to provide your definition of "rich"?

thanks

Steve - You don't even realize you are proof things needed to change. Almost no provisions from "Obamacare" have gone into effect, yet your rate keeps rising, as it has been for decades. So what is your point? That your rates rose like they do every year? The program is aimed at better healthcare for all, AND it being more affordable. Stop being a block head and realize it is a good thing.

I can't believe people think this is insurance. It is not, this is health care. Do a simple comparision to home or car insurance. Does insurance pay for your oil change? How about home maintenance? Of course not, yet that is what the current health car plan does for individuals. It pays for your yearly physical, for contraception, etc. These are unexpected accidents, these are matters of routine health maintenance. But what what about cancer or other deseases with disaterous effects? Guess what the health care won't cover those. Check your employer's health plan, most cap benifits at $250K a year. That is not insurance. Compare with Aflac, where the cap is in the millions of dollars and covers unexpected medlical problems like cancer, accidents, spinal injuries, etc.

Anyone who thinks this means you don't need insurance in addition to the manditory health care that is coming needs to take another look.

Health care should not be regulated by how much profit a company wants to make. Part of Obama care is that insurance companies are required to spend more health care dollars that they take in on people instead of profits and this will make better use of the health care dollar. The only bad thing I see with Obama care is that it didn't go into effect completely in 2012.

Socialize health care and oil now for a better life, and cheaper.

Dear Steve and bethany - the ACA doesn't control how much insurance companies will charge you. They can do whatever the eff they want with their rates. What the ACA can - and will - control is for what 80-85% of that money will be used (if you haven't guessed them yet, your health and well-being!). "Obamacare" will end up letting idiots like you live longer and contribute to the gene pool. In this case, then it should get repealed....

No service is free. Someone pays for it. The crime is the people that have been paying for insurance all along are seeing their rates go up while their benifits go down. All this to pay for those free services for others. The loosers of the whole plan is the middle class as they end up paying for all these health care benifits for the poor by paying higher premiums themselves. Then people blame the wealthy for destroying the middle class.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner and the bill for all comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing like they do now with the present income tax structure.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59 of the bill.

So that is what the ten men decide to do.

The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you all are such good customers I am going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20”. Dinner for the 10 men now costs just $80...

The group still wanted to pay the bill the same way that they paid their taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six men -- the Paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everybody would get his “Fair Share”?

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to eat their meal…So, the restaurant owner suggested it would be fair to reduce each mans bill roughly the same amount; and proceeded to work out the amounts each man would pay.

The fifth, like the first four now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth man now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings)

The seventh man now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings)

The eight man now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)

The ninth man now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings)

The tenth man now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings)

Each of the six was better off then before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings…

“I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man “but he got $10”…“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. Its unfair that he got ten times more than me!?”“That’s true”, shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploit’s the poor!”The nine men surrounded the tenth man and beat him up…

The next night the Tenth man did not show up for dinner, so the Nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half the bill!

And that my friends is what will happen. When you HATE the very people who pay for the majority of our country's needs one day you will wake up and find there are no more "rich" to pay the bill - then how do you plan to PAY for all this "free" health care then???

Bingo Gloryhound.

Gloryhound

The poor DO receive some health care already -- if they can find a doctor that accepts medicaid -- or in costly emergency room visits.

The losers will be those healthy people who do not have any health insurance but can afford it. They will HAVE to get insurance or pay penalties. My 20-something daughter and husband are in this group, they were discouraged from buying insurance two years ago when the insurance companies were playing all those shenanigans with coverage for pre-existing conditions and waiting periods for pregnancy coverage.

Then there are the businesses who have more than 50 employees...they will have to start providing health care benefits to their employees. Since all 50+ employers will have to meet this regulation, it will place a similar cost on all them at the same time (i.e. market competition should not be adversely affected for individual firms). Here we may see some consumer price increases.

Really, the potential is there to reduce health care costs, too bad so many people want it to fail...like what we had before was working.

Insurance companies will continue to over charge, make money on the excess fees and then send rebates after the fact.

Contrary to the goal of reducing the cost of medicine in the US, insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical AND doctors will now both be on the same side, increased spending on medical coverage. The executives of insurance companies will want to spend more so that the amount spent on non-coverage items can increase. The actual health care side always wanted to spend more.

The only way to contain ever escalating medical costs is a single payer system with the force of law to contain costs. Medicare for all, particularly the OLD, STALE, MALE in the US Senate.

Jersey Bob

Not so fast with the BS spin. Before the 50% cut on medications in the donut hole went into effect, my prescriptions doubled in cost, so you tell me what the hell will I be saving. Also many of the name brand medications were dropped from the list of medications my insurance pays for. So all and all we have been screwed so far by this BS spin and will only be done so more in the future, especially when the 1 Billions between Obamacare and the Obama proposed budget come out of the Medicare plan. We won't be able to find doctors that will take us and the numb skulls in this administration have come out almost monthly saying this test and that test are not really needed. If you and Obama think we are dumb enough to buy this bull, think again!

Dick! Your Parents named you for what you are ! Hopelessly in Love with the Muslim Commie Fraud in the White House ! Ask yourself why the Politicians aren't going to be on OBAMACARE? Why can all of the Unions OPT PUT ? Do you think the half Breed has the same medical Plan as you and your Family ?

Think again you " Dumb Putz " (Putz is Dick in Yiddish in case you wanted to know)

Pray that the Supreme Court Repeals this Stupid Plan. Remember what MZZZZ Pullosi said! We have to Pass this Bill before we read WHAT'S IN IT ? I have a few Contracts for that Ugly Dumb Broad to sign, but she can't read what's in them !!!! Hello , Wake up America !

I hate to inform everyone but the insurance companies are not the problem its the doctors and hospitals that charge too much.

Small example I had a twing in my left knee and called around most wanted $400 for the visit. I found the cheapest in the area told me to bring $250-300 to cover the bill.

I went in took an hour to get in and out but as soon as I was in the room I was told to put on some paper shorts and they tried to head me to the X-ray room. I said I would like the DR to see me first, she said ok and looked alittle puzzled until I told her I was a health insurance agent and would like to DR to see me first. He came in did a 5 min exam and said to stay off it and take an anti-inflammatory. No X-ray no prescription given but just to see him for 5 mins cost $116.

One ER visit can cost 5-10K

Insurance companies are simple piggy banks and when the hospitals overcharge and people overuse the costs goes up. I see lots of companies that exceed the incoming moneys outwieght the outgoing by 140% and that 40% has to come from a rate increase and spreading the hurt. The Gov't simply adds more debt , but insurance companies can't do that or go broke.

FYI if a MRI machine costs 2 million dollars at an avg. cost of only 1,500 a scan doing 11 scans a day = 4 months and the unit is paid for. With 8 more months of pure profit for the year.

Healthcare is way overpriced and killing off the insurance companies and agents isn't going to fix the problem of GREED in the system.

I dont like the whole forced to have insurance thing. And anything ran by the government is always ran badly and whatever costs are quoted,triple that at least.

Most people who are very poor get free health care(well at least for them) so mabe Obamas plan is to make everyone poor?

I wonder what the true cost of universal health care would be? mabe we could close some military bases and pay for it. How long are we going to stay in Germany or Okinawa or ?

What is the dictator going to do if you cant afford health insurance ., put you in prision , oops better not give them any ideas, its like if you dont have auto insurance you dont drive , they come and get your plates , they can raise your insurance to what ever they want, its blackmail is all it is. I dont have health insurance I have to go to a clinic and it still cost 35 dollars a visit and you get a nurse practioner not area real doctor , my wife is a med tech and she knows more than they do. the poor get the dumb doctors and the rich and goverment workers get the real doctors , right Mr. O, you need to go.

Besides that 57% of Americans are against Obamacare ,Democrats , Republicans and independents among them want it repealed

The cost of Obamacare will increase from $900 billions to 1.7 Trillions, the estimate from the CBO is more than double than when Democrats passed the law and Obama signed it. According to the same report 20 millions or more will lose their insurance and patients wont be able to keep the same Doctor. Obamacare also is in favor to cut benefits to seniors over 70 , ethic panels ( death panels) will have the job to decide what kind of treatment an insured can have. How this law can be a good law. Repeal Obamacare is a fraud.

Expanding - it costs almost a million dollars a year just to RUN the MRI machine on average. Then you have to pay doctors, technicians, custodians etc to maintain it and make sense of the information for patients. They are not making money off of it after 4 months. And I'd be really surprised if they were doing more than 4 or 5 scans a day, as it can take several hours.

Jesus Christ Wayne, how can you be so convinced to act against your own self intrest? YOu are, right now, describing the current pathetic state of health services, especially for the poor, and your conclusion is that Obamacare, the point of which is to get you on insurance (the poor get rebates and discounts to help defray the cost of premiums), so that you can go see an actual doctor and get decent service, is a bad thing?

I want to pull my hair out reading these comments. The man is trying to HELP YOU. There's a mandate for a public option in the legislation that can be triggered. We should have Universal Coverage, but the right, the GOP, the Republicans, hate the very idea of giving every American access to decent healthcare, and yet, you blame Obama?

What logic are you using???? You know how @!$%#ed up the system is, why do you hate the guy trying to change it, make it better, expand your access, get you contributing to your own health so you don't have to settle for a nurse practitioner? What exactly do you think the healthcare reform is ABOUT?

Rom - the government actually generally controls the prices for consumers - a major complaint by providers regarding Medicare is the low reimbursement rates - the government specifies the costs it will pay for each procedure. Also happens with the post office, where you can mail a letter anywhere in the country, including Alaska and Hawaii, for 45 cents. That's not the true cost, but it's paid elsewhere. And before anyone starts with "but the post office is bankrupt", no, they are not. There's a scheme in place to force the PO to prepay pension benefits for 75 years, within the next decade. THAT is completely the reason for them being in the red every year. It's an insane requirement, and seems motivated by the fact that the government regularly "borrows" from the PO pension surplus, much as they do Social Security, which should have several decades of benefit payments saved, as it's been running a surplus for 50 years, yet everyone is claiming is bankrupt.

Capt Tipps, government controls prices such as Medicare's to contain costs. Private insurers negotiate their own cost agreements with providers. Providers are then identified as "participators," in that insurers plans. These agreements are customary as most are familiar with the term " in network and out of network" regarding insurance coverage. You are absolutely correct about the PO and the requirement to greatly fund in advance it's retirement fund. Pure and simple political strategy for ideology purposes at the expense of the little guy. Closing PO's does nothing to create or keep jobs rather hurt a lot more people including small business and cities over all.

Capt. & Mary: On the USPS, its not only the retirement, its the projected health care costs that the USPS has to fund up front too. In the grand world of government accounting, they count the money from the USPS for future outlays as receipts today, offsetting the current deficits, thus reducing the current deficit, much like they do for Medicare and Social Security. The government then "borrows" that money and uses it, today, with a promise to pay it back in the future, with interest.

Your government at work, they make the mafia look like angels.

Probusiness,

You divided the cost of the meal like taxes, but you forgot to divide up the food like property. The tenth man gets 95% of the food, what he doesn't eat, he takes home in a doggie bag. The other 9 get to divide up the rest of what's left.

Nobody in the restaurant business is giving these no tipping cheapskates decent service, much less a price break.

As mentioned above, it's universal insurance, not medical care.

Isn't it strange that our country spends more money than all other countries yet gets less results? Mediocre (by the way you should at least use spell checker) is what you should call our current system. Our church had a group of two individuals... a senior pastor (with a special needs child) who paid $1,400 per month and a single person youth pastor who paid $450 per month... total monthly premium of $1,850 per month (Highmark Health Care). Our youth pastor left and we decided to replace him with a part time (20 hours per week) with no benefits. Well, we got kicked out of Highmark (no longer a group)... BUT do we have a plan for your pastor... Oops... it's only $2,500 per month or maybe $3,000 per month... Same guy... same illness history... same special needs child. That's crazy and that's why we need a national plan.... The insurance companies are just rip off artists...

You are ignoring the fact that the U.S. does far better than in other countries in terms of how long you have to wait to get tests or to have surgery. Far better.

Tell that to the 50 million that don'r have any health care!

Republicans exaggerate having "to wait" when they talk about universal health care.

I had universal health care in the Netherlands and England. I never waited in line, I was always treated immediately. I paid no co-pays. When my sister in law had her baby. A well baby nurse came to her house everyday to assist for 2 weeks.

American health care is arcane. US health care ranks 37th in the world compared to other countries.

Countries with universal health care do it better and cheaper than the US.

@tom8896-source for that?

We may not have to wait longer, but we're #36 for life expectancy and #34 in infant mortality rates. Hard to justify the outrageous costs of our healthcare compared to other countries.

Mediocre care is better than none at all, and the rich can still pay extra to have their Park Ave. doctors. Are you aware that most aids patients choose death over taking medication that would absolutely save their lives because they can't afford the medication. I myself have refused to buy the medications for my high blood pressure and high cholesterol because of the cost. I have insurance, but couldn't afford the deductible (thank you HMOs and the pharmaceutical industry). I remember the look on my wife's face when I had to say "I'd rather die than pay that price". It's a look you never want to see on the face of someone you love. Thank you President Obama. The plan isn't yet perfect, but you're saving a lot of lives with this health care overhaul.

It's very easy to mock this plan if you're filthy rich and have first rate, company paid for insurance. The deaths of thousands are on your conscience though if you have one. Sleep well, and may your children be as fortunate as you.

You are ignoring the fact that the U.S. does far better than in other countries in terms of how long you have to wait to get tests or to have surgery. Far better.

Unless you're uninsured. Then the wait is infinite.

Last December, the administration announced that 32 health-care organizations would participate in a three-year Pioneer Accountable Care Organization programaimed at providing better, coordinated care for 860,000 Medicare beneficiaries. Providers -- including hospitals, clinics and physician groups -- that work together to improve beneficiaries' health and to bring costs down will share in the savings that they achieve.

Would these be the same people that decided women didn't need mammograms until they were 50? Yep, THAT will "bring costs down," except for the women who will get breast cancer from not being screened early enough. Sorry, I've got no faith in this "plan."

I had universal health care in the Netherlands and England. I never waited in line, I was always treated immediately. I paid no co-pays. When my sister in law had her baby. A well baby nurse came to her house everyday to assist for 2 weeks.

American health care is arcane. US health care ranks 37th in the world compared to other countries.

Countries with universal health care do it better and cheaper than the US.

The Netherlands has a fraction of the population of the United States. Government run programs are much easier to maintain and fund properly with small populations.

Eric-913730 - You assume that because the Netherlands could successfully implement a universal health care program that the US government can as well. That is not the case. If there is one thing our government has a tract record for it's running poorly. There are fundamental changes that need to be made on how our government operates before any such program could ever be successful. A universal health care program implemented by the government how it currently operates would fail with catastrophic financial results.

Hey allegroman: would you rather folks have no opportunity for health insurance or health care coverage at all? OK, if that is your reasoning, you feel to drop all of your insurance coverage today. Go first. Just hope you do not need any medical attention for a hang nail...that may cost you big time. Nincompoop.

"We may not have to wait longer, but we're #36 for life expectancy and #34 in infant mortality rates. Hard to justify the outrageous costs of our healthcare compared to other countries."

Because we sue everyone and anything that looks at us different or rubs us the wrong way. US as a whole have itchy sueing fingers.

And what, pray tell, is wrong with socialized medicine?

Being from Australia and living here a long time, I really do not see the big deal about this Health care Mandate, and neither do most of my Foreign friends that come from Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa..I can go on.

Australia and New Zealands Health care works and it has not Bankrupted either Country.For all of you that scream about Socialism and omg we are all going to fall apart come on.Then maybe we should take away your Food Stamps,Assisted Housing and everything else that you depend on from the Government.

As I said earlier go vote Republican when you are poor and in need of help.A wise choice when you cannot feed your Kids, afford Health Insurance, or better Education.No doubt they will really have your best interests at heart.. ( Da )

Eric. The Netherlands has a small population and is no comparison for the burden that US citizens place on the health care workers/ hospitals/ doctors etc..

Non Breeder! Good thing! IT sounds like you are faulting a working man for having insurance that he EARNS. Maybe we should all stop working so that all the welfare cases will starve as well??

The only problem with our previous health care insurance is that the insurance industry lobbyists see to it that they are accountable for paying for fewer claims every year! Adding the burden that Obama has created on small business will only add to their demise and allow more corporate entities to fill the gaps!

Socialized medicine is a failure in most countries! I have worked in most countries world wide and I have first hand experience of how inadequte they are! In example Norway has the second highest standard of living (monetary) per capita in the world. They have socialized medicine. While I was there every single employee in the company where I was working became ill with a very contagious respiratory illness. All of us including my American coworker and I sought medical treatment within their system. All of the engineers we worked with there were off from work between two and three months as the treatment we all received did absolutely nothing to eradicate the illness. When I returned home for a break I went to my family doctor and I was well within three days after suffering in Norway for more than a month after getting treatment there. The doctors I saw there didn't have a clue how to combat disease!

Routine prenatal care and routine physicals that socialized medicine covers are not a good measure of a nations health care! When you are sick and dying the USA WAS the place to be. If Obamacare is not repealed that will be a thing of the past!

YOU will learn the hard way!

Well surely that would translate into shorter life expectancies and higher mortality rates from disease in those countries, right Michael? You wouldn't just be making @!$%# up, would you? Because wait, what? The exact opposite sis true? Now, who'd have thunk it.

Actually it does. It changes what doctors get paid for. Instead of being paid for doing "stuff". You are given a lump sum to keep the whole person healthy. This forces doctors and hospitals to lower costs. It's a proven system and has worked in England, Australia, and other countries.

In Australia for example, if they see that drug use amongst teens is growing, they give incentives to health care groups that come up with ways to treat this. Those groups then target that problem and come up with affordable ways to treat the problem. Businesses like incentives.

It actually does.

It will restrict the percentage of costs that are for administrative costs. That is forcing them to reduce overhead and consolidate administrative costs. It also forces cutbacks on middle managers and non-essential admin jobs.

It will cap the costs for certain procedures in a similar fashion that States cap auto insurance charges with yearly reviews.

It also encourages and sets up volume drug purchases to negotiate lower overall costs for the most commonly used medications.

And, since most people will have to have coverage, it will cut down on the use of emergency rooms for non-critical uses and Hospitals won't have as many charges for treating people without insurance that is passed on to other hospital patients and in other costs.

So, that does reduce costs by the big three, and takes the responsibility of paying for health care premiums to the individual/family level so we don't have to pay for their lack of coverage in our rates like we do today.

Obamacare does nothing to control the greed of the big three (doctors, insurance companies and paharmaceutical companies) but it does force you buy insurance whether you can afford it or not.

I'd have to disagree with 2 of those "big 3" you're mentioning. Doctors have to be hard-working, intelligent and studious all of their young adult lives to have the "pleasure" of studying even more in med school and then paying off all the debt that goes into it. And they, in fact, do save lives.

Pharmaceutical companies have to sink a ton of money into research, development and testing of drugs that save lives, too. The people that do this kind of work aren't inexpensive.

I'm not saying there might not be greedy doctors or or pharmaceutical companies, but they do, as a whole, work to improve, and sometimes even save, our lives.

Insurance companies, OTH, I agree, are people who've concocted a scheme that's been in place for generations, and thrives on public fear and the manipulation of politicians with their deep pockets and lobbies. Insurance companies don't improve, nor save, our lives. They add nothing but frustrating bureaucracy and cost while making ridiculous profits.

Did you not read the article?

"Under the health-care overhaul, insurers have to spend at least 80 to 85 percent of premium revenues on medical claims and quality improvement or else rebate the difference to policyholders. In most group plans, that would mean the employer."

"In December, the Obama administration estimated that 9 million Americans might receive rebates totaling up to $1.4 billion, also based on 2010 data."

Of course he didn't read the article, he already learned everything he needs to know about this issue from the radio. What need does he have for your pesky liberal facts?

Mike a couple of problems:

It will restrict the percentage of costs that are for administrative costs. That is forcing them to reduce overhead and consolidate administrative costs. It also forces cutbacks on middle managers and non-essential admin jobs.

There are ways around this. All insurers require pre-approval for anything a provider does. If the insurer defines this staff as adminitrative they can cut back.This increses the wait for care and drives up provider administrative costs. less care and less staff equals more profit. It is win - win for them.

And, since most people will have to have coverage, it will cut down on the use of emergency rooms for non-critical uses

This HAS NOT happened in MA under RomneyCare (NEJM Oct 2011). MA ER utilization is the same as other states.

Insurance companies, OTH, I agree, are people who've concocted a scheme that's been in place for generations, and thrives on public fear and the manipulation of politicians with their deep pockets and lobbies. Insurance companies don't improve, nor save, our lives. They add nothing but frustrating bureaucracy and cost while making ridiculous profits.

And believe it or not, THAT is the problem I have with ObamaCare - overly relying on INSURANCE, when we KNOW they are just a bunch of greedy bastards who will do everything they can to get out of paying the bill! IF a public option had been included, THAT might have been the incentive to insurance companies to get their act together - or it could have driven alot of them out of health insurance, but that wouldn't exactly break my heart. And a public option could have been SO EASY, instead of blowing bucks on a "health exchange" where people can shop for insurance policies they CAN'T AFFORD, the gov't could have just sold Medicare policies to people who didn't qualify for free. BOOM, there's your public option. Money going INTO Medicare instead of only going OUT. But no, Congress can't do anything without setting up a huge new department/bureaucracy that has to be funded.

And someone was complaining about WalMart, well WHERE in the law is a requirement that businesses even provide health insurance??? IT'S NOT THERE!!! Instead, the burden is on we the people to buy something we might not be able to afford! Right now I'm on my husband's policy, he's paying over $400 a month for family coverage. I'd have to pay over $100 a month where I work to buy their insurance, and honestly I'd rather put that money into retirement savings. But what if I wasn't married? I'd either have health care or retirement, no way could I afford BOTH, and at my age I NEED to be thinking about retirement? Or what about young people who really don't make much? My daughter is engaged to a guy with 2 kids from a previous marriage. His company doesn't even provide health insurance, and guess what? Neither he nor his kids have health insurance; he'd rather eat and pay rent than try to buy a private policy - imagine that. But in 2014 ObamaCare will FORCE him to buy something he can't afford, and THAT'S why I'm against it! WHY is that so HARD for you Liberals to understand???

T Bourlon

You need to do more research and then YOU can understand.

Amongst other things, health care reform requires employers with more than 50 employees to offer a health care plan or face penalties. Individuals/families who work for small companies or themselves can receive government subsidies depending on their income. So your soon-to-be son-in-law family will be better off if what you say is true.

Amongst other things, health care reform requires employers with more than 50 employees to offer a health care plan or face penalties. Individuals/families who work for small companies or themselves can receive government subsidies depending on their income. So your soon-to-be son-in-law family will be better off if what you say is true.

BULL!!! How many large employers will decide the fine/tax is cheaper than the healthcare??? There's NOTHING requiring them to provide healthcare coverage. And I'll believe those gov't subsidies for low-income people when I SEE them; right now we're running a HUGE deficit, don't you know that? There's NO MONEY to cover these subsidies, where's the money going to come from???

IF what I say is true??? You calling me a LIAR??? A pox on your head!

For the companies which have health insurance, there is nothing mandating that they have health insurance right now, so why do they do it ? The assumption is that companies which currently do offer health insurance will suddenly change their policies, make their employees upset, and make themselves less competitive for good employees by cancelling the policies and only paying the fines ? That just does not make any kind of sense.

As to paying for the subsidies, about half-way down on page 1243 of the law there is a provision calling for a 27% tax on people who use the term "A pox on your head." :)

You are right Truth! Eric is wrong! The trillions more that the insurance companies will make when EVERYONE has to pay will far exceed the few billion they will pay back in rebates!

Amen Jax A!! See my post!

T Bourlon! Great insightful posts!

Pragmatist. The boon you see in requiring companies with over 50 employees to provide insurance WILL cause at least two after effects.

One) Many of the effected companies will fail due to the added overhead.

Two) The effected companies that do stay in business after adding the cost of healthcare to their overhead will do so by passing the costs of it on to the consumers so we will all be paying AGAIN for this boon to the American people.

It seems to me that most of this administrations policies are actually carefully constructed to bring America down to the levels of subsistence in Third World Countries.

This is supposed to be the "Land of the Free and the Brave". We earn the right to be that by working hard and being smart with our money! Not by being dependant on a government that really shouldn't be meddling in our personal affairs!

Actually they were concocted to bring us up to the level of other industrialized, 1st world nations, that offer Universal Healthcare to their citizens.

Insurance is not a personal affair. I would pay a lot more in taxes if I could get an insurance option that won't dissolve should I lose my job, or my company decide to cut benefits. Governments a lot more stable than anybodies employer, just ask the millions on Medicare if they'd rather switch to some private insurer.

I have been in all of the 1st world industrialized nations you refer to and ALL of the very educated, literate enginers/ scientists I have worked with in those countries tell me they wish they had healthcare like ours. They feel like a visit to their hospitals is flirting with death!

I have lost jobs due to companies closing before. I simply got another job! There are always jobs available for people willing to work. I'd rather pay for my own healthcare than be forced to pay $1 in taxes.

Dependence on government programs are the downfall of humankind! Independent thinking and lifestyle cause us grow and become more as human beings. The welfare state needs to be weaned from the government tit!

OH please. You have never met one person from Canada, or Europe who wishes they had an American style system of healthcare. Not one, single person. What a liar. Not even on the their worst days would a citizen of the UK trade in the NHS for the potluck @!$%# we have to deal with here. You are lying thru your keyboard if you claim otherwise. Canadians are generally appalled at the state of our health system. The idea that visiting the hospital in Sweden is"flirting with death" is so obviously ridiculous I'm surprised you actual;ly typed it out and hit enter. Neither anecdote nor fact are on your side in this debate, you can't just go making @!$%# up.

I have worked in Japan for the past ten years. I do not belong to the Japanese health plan so I pay out of pocket for health care then get paid back by an international health care plan. The point though is that when I pay out of pocket I am paying much less and in most cases actually less then the co-pay I would pay in the USA. Every two months I visit a clinic at a hosptial and get a full on blood work-up, a EKG, see a heart specialist (same doctor each time), and get a two month supply of a name brand blood pressure medicene. My total time for this is two hours and around $200.00 USD. On-top of that I get a free annnual health check-up which is very complete just for living in Japan as a resident. Japan is not the only place I have worked and I find it the same in most places. So for those of you who claim the world envys American health care, let me inform you they do not. In fact I have had many instances where I have been asked why such a great country of America cannot take care of their own. I have no answer for that question.

It doesn't work as well as you would think Jon. Most of the insurers in MA are "non-profit". Though they don't pay out to shareholders they do keep very healthy "reserves". They are now engaged in a successful campaign to shift all the risk to providers (capitation). In addition they also "have to compete" with the for profits for executives so they pay big salaries to their CEOs. As far as driving up provider administrative costs they behave pretty much like the for-profits (I have the misfortune of dealing with both).

The real solution is to remove theses parasites from the system. They do not contribute anything to patient care.

ALL Health Insurance companies used to be Non-Profit by law. But the Republicans changed that law to allow them to be FOR PROFIT companies. Their reasoning is that making them for profit would lower costs due to competition. We can see how well THAT worked out. Most of the time when Republicans say things like that they are lying through their teeth and they know it. Plus they know the average american is GULLIBLE enough to believe it.

Insurance companies earn a very low percentage for their investment, if you don't believe me, buy you some insurance stock. See how quick you get rich.

ALL Health Insurance companies used to be Non-Profit by law. But the Republicans changed that law to allow them to be FOR PROFIT companies.

Sandy, I'm sure you are prepared to back up your claim.

Please cite the law that Republicans passed that allowed insurance companies to earn a profit. Please also document the law that required them to be nonprofit in the first place.

howe- Envy of the world in healthcare? Maybe in Faux noise land, ask any other Country like Canada, if they envy us? LOL

Howe, I think the better question is what kind of smoke are you trying to blow up our hind-sides. First, Doctors are not leaving their practices unless they are trying to retire or go work for someone that is paying them more money than their personal practice was making (many doctors do this because after opening their practice they figured out they were good doctors but terrible businessmen/women).

I will also say that you don't understand the system if you think we are adding more people to medicare when "repackaged" to Obama Care. Medicare is medicare, you qualify or you don't. The additions are most likely those that will have to get regular health insurance for those who have decided not to get it in the past... and they dont have to, they will have to pay an extra tax if they do not... which is fair by the way, because you and me will have to pay for their health care if they still do not get heath insurance.

What this does is cut out the loopholes insurance companies use to not pay for services even though we have paid for insurance. This law does not give them the ability to do so any more. It also helps to make sure costs are down (in theory)... which is the part that will remain to be seen and only the future will tell. Please stop drinking the conspiracy theory coffee man... this is not the end of the world or the end of your personal financial freedom.

howe

You sir don't know what your talking about. Most of or at least some of the as you call it Obamacare were idles that came from Rep's. Even Rep's know things can't go on like they are. These people with out insurance end up costing people with insurance more. When they can't pay for the hospital visit, the hospital charges more to the people that are insured. And when that comes up short they give the bill to the government. Remember there is a law that a hospital can not turn anyone away. So when people that don't have insurance get sick its to the ER for treatment that will be $1,500.00 or more. A trip to the DR office is $ 100,00 Do the math. That is welfare.

ROFL, the "civilian army" conspiracy theory.

Hummbird

When Canadian citizens require health care of any specialized nature they come here!

Their doctors are severely inadequate compared to ours!

That's because of the population size. Canada has far fewer people, so they have fewer specialists. Their health care SYSTEM is still better than ours.

basically, the article was laying out the changes that will be taking place, unless the SCOTUS kills the bill entirely.

IMO, the SCOTUS will likely approve this law, but may alter the penalty provisions. Effectively the way the law is written, the objective is to get everyone covered. Since everyone, at one time or another, will partake in the health care industry, everyone is already paying for health care. The law just eliminates the "self-insurance" option.

Legally, once you've succeeded in bleeding your customers dry while allowing them to die whenever it benefits your bottom line, for over seven years, you have the right to continue to do so in perpetuity. All this anti corporate master talk is downright un-American. Treason and sedition! You're all going to wind up in FEMA camps. You'll be providing slave labor for Obama's newly legislated munitions factories and never blog again. Good riddance to you.

Thank you for the FOX talking points.

Have you any facts to add?

Have you any facts to add?

President Obama’s national health care law will cost $1.76 trillion over a decade, according to a new projection released today by the Congressional Budget Office, rather than the $940 billion forecast when it was signed into law.

Source, Please!

Source please? That would be the Congressional Budget Office. And yes, they just published their findings yesterday. Obamacare will cost us 1.76 Trillion which we do not have. Look it up.

Actually you are wrong Steven but then again most people who use Right Wing News Sources are wrong.

"The CBO, in an update to its budget outlook, now estimates that the overall coverage cost of Obama's Affordable Care Act will drop slightly, to $1.083 trillion over the next decade. "

This came out on the 15th of this month. Now when you factor in the cost to the American Tax Payer for uninsured people going to the Emergency room not being as high you will find the cost of the ACA is LESS than paying for emergency room visits for 10 years by uninsured people. Guess who pays for every uninsured person? You do as hospitals raise prices to cover those people and insurance companies raise prices to cover the raised prices from the hospitals.

The ACA will actually save money but that is not something the Indoctrinated Right Wing wants to hear. It doesn't fit their unsubstantiated beliefs.

I'll take Obama care anyday. For the first time in 3 years my son got insurance coverage. Prior to that, it was denied due to "pre-existing conditions". He was disabled through no fault of his own in a car crash. Couldn't get insurance until President Obama changed the law. How grateful this family was and still is every day that he is covered.

Here's a clue:

http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/03/14/obamacares-costs-the-hits-just-keep-on-coming/

Ooooh! A BLOG!

That MUST be a credible source of information!

Ooooh! A BLOG!

http://news.yahoo.com/cbo-obamacare-price-tag-shifts-940-billion-1-163500655.html

What are you going to say now? "Oooh! Yahoo News"?

Wow, what a even handed account of the Affordable Care Act!

I must have missed the part about what we are getting for that money...

I'm sorry Steven B but that link is to a "conservative" columnist don't you have any independent source to go by? I'm sorry but this guy is a little bias and doesn't give an accurate accounting of the new law. I wish the people on this post ranting about the new health care law had some kind of facts to back up their claims so far all the links lead to conservative commentators who twist the facts and don't give accurate accounting as does the CBO and other institutions who have studied the new health care law.

#13.5

See:

#13.3

You can get the information right from the CBO web site and it proves that Steven is lying through his teeth. And if he would read the text from the CBO he would find most of the costs are from Medicaid and CHIP which have been in the system for years.

Steve didn't even read the article. He obviously only chooses to read material that already supports his biased view. Telling him to actually go to a website and get facts that disprove his position? Not likely. He's part of the "Flat Earth" society that suckles on the teat of Rush Limbaugh and Fox News pundits.

Agreed, but at least this is a step in the right direction!

True.

Hey Steven, could you post a link to back up your claim I would love to read it. Hopefully it's from an independent source. From everything I've read it will do exactly the opposite even the CBO states that it will lower costs in the long run including the deficit.

Hey Steven, could you post a link to back up your claim I would love to read it.

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2012/03/15/cbo-obamacare-could-make-20-million-people-lose-employer-based-insuranc

http://news.yahoo.com/cbo-obamacare-price-tag-shifts-940-billion-1-163500655.html

Any link with "Obamacare" in it MUST be a credible source for information on the Affordable Care Act!

Ha!

#18.3

Yes, of course you can cover your ears and shout "la la la" to avoid the hard realities of the facts.

We can't afford this mess, and there's no discussion at all with the doctors, nurses and other medical providers as to whether or not they will want to go along with Socialized Medicine.

If any readers would like a little perspective on the costs of the Affordable Care Act instead of Republican talking points, visit:

President Obama Lends His Voice to Chorus of Democrats Criticizing Congressional Budget Office Numbers

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/06/president-obama-lends-his-voice-to-chorus-of-democrats-criticizing-congressional-budget-office-numbe/

Steven stop lying and get your facts from the CBO itself and not right wing extremist web sites and blogs. Use some UPDATED information for once. I know it flies in the face of how republicans do things but get some real facts for once.

You wouldn't know a "fact" if you were slapped in the face with it... You are ate up with rightwing propaganda...Its pretty obvious... might as well ignore you, you don't have anything to add as we've allready heard all that BS...

Yeah that makes a lot of sense! So every doctor in the nation is only going to accept rich people with their own private plans as patients! Keep you mind closed and your tv dialed to foxnews buddy!

It does make sense; the idea of forcing people to work for Government wages, with the attendant hassles will drive the better professionals into 'boutique' practices.

The lesser-skilled medical providers will gladly jump on board.

Ever been to a VA hospital? That's the future of healthcare, under the Socialists.

So where do these lesser skilled providers work now? Your post is complete nonsense!

Steveo - if it looks like a duck...

"Forcing people to work for government wages?" Was that another of your famous "rectum-derived" statements, Steven?

That is exactly what they are afraid of. They don't want it to work because it's less money for the big business execs and for themselves!

Speaking as a provider in MA it is not working as well as advertised.

Costs have risen dramatically and the cost containment measures will cause a lot of problems and are not what people would want. The state and insurance industry is pushing a return to the failed systems of the 90s capitation and managed care. They are also pushing tiered health insurance, setting up 2 tier health care.

The mandate isn't working as expected. It was hoped that is people had health insurance they would seek care from a primary care MD rather than ins an expensive areas like the ER. That hasn't happened. The Commonwealth Connector is also approving plans with such high deductibles and co-pays that the low wage earners these plans are designed for will not be able to use them. The meet the requirements of the mandate but will not be able to obtain health care.

Waits to see providers is up but the number of providers have only increased slightly and haven't met the demand. What has increased dramatically is the number of administrative personnel (28%). This means that money is being shifted from patient care to insurance company care. This doesn't include the cost of the bureaucracy in the Commonwealth Connector.

Why don't you here this stuff nationally? RomneyCare is important to both parties. Romney because it bears his name and Obama (Our Governor is co-chair of the Obama reelection campaign). If you want to see an example of a universal healthcare system I would take a look at what VT is doing, not MA.

Looks like the liberals believe their own press (or at least Obama's). You believe it is working in Massachusetts? Take a look at their deficit and the quality of the care they receive and you will think twice.

Once he is out of the Whitehouse next January, hopefully we can get back to the government our founders designed.

How can anyone be so blind as to think that putting us further in debt (15 trillion and counting) is going to help us sustain the welfare state we have become. Oh yeah, raise the taxes on the only group of people capable of creating jobs since they obviously have more money then they want or need.

Yeah, let's not think of ways to become less dependent on foriegn oil by actually supplying our own in addition to developing alternative sources. I'm all for paying $4-5 dollars a gallon while someone is inventing that 'source'. Heck lets just chip in an extra $1-2 dollars a gallon.

I would suggest that those who think Obama is on the right track, go to a country that is already on a 'socialist' agenda and live there for a year, then come back and tell us how great that is. Maybe you can then run for office and give us the 'change' we so richly (oh wait) poorly deserve.

I've seen the comments about how Canada and Australia have such great health care systems, but I am wondering that if that is so true, why do their people come to the US to get treated?

Since it was voted in, I have not only heard, but have experienced the rise in premiums as much as 20%. I just can't wait to get my taxes raised so I can help pay for someone that is and has been on unemployment for the last three years, health care.

Okay so lets all agree, everyone making over $200K a year should take everything over that amount, send in a check to Obama and let him decide how to split it up. Fair and balanced approach, right? Glad I am not in that group. I would rather pay the 28% of my income to fund the ones who don't pay anything (which is anyone making less than $30K a year).

Oh well, just some fodder for all the librals to comment on.

Too much fox news for you. I quit listening to the critics of the healthcare bill after watching all the hate and bigotry in their protest and the lies. If they were correct in their critizing they would have had to resort to lies. Have the deathpanels come to get your granny yet?

Most of the debt Obama inherited was because of very bad policies; 2 useless wars and the theft by wallstreet etc. A lot of the new debt has gone to and is going to investments in our country and our people. I believe our future is worth investing in. When our economy is booming again the debt will be easier to deal with. Maybe then we will have politicians that can get their heads together and do what is good for the citizen.

As you probably know healthcare cost will be a serious threat to our financial stability in another generation the AHA is attempt to address that problem. Have a great day.

I just want to throw my 2 cents into this discussion. I live in Mn. & Blue Cross Blue Shield is being investigated for having 2 billion in cash in the Bank when they take matching funds from the Federal Gov't for MnCare (medicaid) for the working poor. Our Govenor " D" Mark Dayton is calling for an investigation and I just read that the Justice Dept. is also starting an inquiry into this. Our govenor wants to know why they have so much money left over when that money should have been spent on health care. He's looking into the care they provided. If all the waste were out of the system that surely help the deficit. How about the billions of waste in Medicare. I am on Medicare and have Diabetis and I cannot tell you how many people call me to have my supplies delivered to my home. The 1st question they ask is; are you on Medicare? If I say yes they won't leave me alone. Must be a great funding source for them.

DD - Ha! Yeah, it always gets me when the old fogarties ramble over their cup of Geritol and Depends tea that we're all going to Commie hell if we go to universal, single-payer healthcare. Meanwhile, they march in lockstep with Lenin regarding Medicare themselves. If I had a penny for every time I saw the twisted logic of folks who say, "It's OK when I do it, but we shouldn't go overboard and make it OK for everybody!"

To be clear, though, I whole-heartedly support universal, single-payer healthcare.

zupercram---careful when you lump people into a group! I am an old fogey on Medicare but I worked for and promoted a single payer system and universal healthcare for over 30 years now!

I also know the difference between communism and socialism, which most of those that are ranting and railing against don't have a clue about. Thats the trouble with labels, the only label we should think about is the one that calls us Americans.

We need to look for solutions to the problems instead of making it a "sporting event" with a "us vs. then" mentality. We are all in this together.

I totally agree with DD, good stuff!

gemini - I hear ya. The "cup of Geritol and Depends tea" portion wasn't entirely necessary, I suppose. My crusade is against hypocrisy, faulty logic, and false facts, not the elderly. I'm quite certain there are folks in my demographic that are hypocrites, as well. Thank you for your work on socialized medicine.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy making a sport of this, though.

Yep, love that Christian sentiment there. Let the sick and poor die! Why should we, The Christian Right (Republican Party) help them? Jesus was wrong in telling people to help the poor and sick. That is the new mantra of the Republican Party. It's money before people, greed before compassion for the GOP. It's down right disgusting. THIS is the ROT in our country that needs to be excised. And every empire or country has fallen in the past because of the ROT inside, the ROT caused by the people and their leaders. The GOP is that ROT.

Sandy, Missouri-

I am wondering what kind of 'Christian' you may be. It was never God's will to have the governments of the world take care of the people. It was His will that the church reach out (as they most always do) to those that are less fortunate.

A lot of the trouble our country is in right now is because 'the church' has people beleiving the way you appear to and trying to pass that responsibility on instead of stepping up to the plate.

Yes, Bob, because anybody who works for an employer that doesn't offer health insurance--and can't afford to pay 15 thousand a year for an individual family policy--is just...what? A loser? Wake up! Lots of folks work for small employers who offer NO health insurance. We earn far too much to qualify for medicaid or state plans, but we can't possibly afford individual policies or pay for major health care out of pocket. Taking the kids for a few well visits isn't the problem. Having somebody who needs an emergency room or cancer treatment is. One event like that can easily bankrupt a working family.

You must live a very insulated life not to know anybody in a situation like this. Many working people have a great deal of trouble affording health care and health insurance and that's just not right. Something has to change.

Yeah, you're so right Sandy. How can those who go to work everyday not help those sitting on thier butts complaining how unfair everything is. Those with money should be forced to give some to those who don't have any. How can one call himself a Christian and not give away all that he works for. For Jesus himself said, when you do unto others you do unto me. The idea that one keeps what he works for is sure to doom our civilization.

When the Biblical God rhetorically asked Cain where his brother was and Cain, being all defensive, answered back with the question: "Am I my brothers keeper?" ...do you suppose Cain might have known the jig was up and that God was likely to answer "Why yes, Cain, you are." ?

The people who whine about having cover for the folks who can't afford health care because they prefer to see them as just lazy and irresponsible have just maybe got a whole lot in common with their brother Cain.

Whenever you get the urge to say something like "Hey, step up to the plate!" it would probably be a good idea to practice saying it to the mirror before yelling it out the window.

Cul: I agree. The cost of healthcare is draining me financially. Maybe I should cancel my coverage and then expect the government to provide it for me.

People like Ronkonkoma Chet are ignorant BS Artists who wouldn't know what it was like to be living below the poverty line. There aren't jobs for everyone to make a good living and you are too ignorant to realize that and here are some things from Jesus all of the bible thumpers ignore in their quest for money and greed.

Matthew 19:20 The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?"
21 Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. 23 And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Luke 14:13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind,
14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."

Matthew 25:34-36 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me."

Luke 12:16-21 Then he told them a parable: "The land of a rich man produced abundantly. And he thought to himself, 'What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?' Then he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, 'Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.' But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So it is with those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God."

And there are many more but most so called Christians do not heed them. They think the poor are all lazy slackers trying to get their money like Ronkonkoma Chet. This is the face of the Republican Party, GREED at the expense of everyone else all wrapped in god and country. It's sad and sickening.

I guess Jesus was a commie.

Of course Jesus was a commie...or a socialist at least, so is anyone who has seen the light and understand stheir inconnectedness with all others on the planet...but more toyour advantage Ronkonkoma Chet might be this
p>

The Canadian example of single-payer, universal health care health care does not mean it is "free" from the government. It means that it is paid for through taxes (which in Canada are slightly higher than in the US) but there is no charge (nor co-pays)for any medical service at time of use...ie, seeing a doctor, being admitted to a hospital or surgeries, etc. A few of the 10 provinces have modest extra monthly premiums based on income (the highest being around $180 for the very well-to-do).

You can find more information of all sorts here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

or http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/index-eng.php

If Jesus were to come back today the Republicans and Christian Conservatives would be calling him a commie and socialist because THAT IS WHAT HE PROPOSED IN THE BIBLE.

It's funny how Republicans and Religious Conservatives so CONVENIENTLY ignore those passages of the bible when it comes to money and helping your fellow man. Well if they are rich they are all for helping them out but if poor then f%&k-em.

Ron Chet - Lee above (post# 23.3) refuted your argument before you even posted it. Please read it. You seem to have fallen into the Randist mindset of "poor people are poor because they're lazy!" It's a toxic mindset that blames the victims of cirumstance and rationalizes the unwillingness to help those in need. In order to sleep at night, people (like you) need to believe that people in need are in such a situation due to their own choices. As much as you want it to be that way, that's not the case.

The cost of healthcare is draining me financially. Maybe I should cancel my coverage and then expect the government to provide it for me.

I'm not going to hide the fact that yes, you should. Nobody should have to make the choice between room & board and medical coverage. If you live in Ronkonkoma, however, I would bet your choice is more like between a hot tub and medical coverage--not the same.

Sandy, sweetheart, you paint a picture of me which is of total ignorance. I have been very successful over the years and have helped numerous people in my family, friends, and in my church. I have always helped those in need. Over the past two years however, my business had not made a dime. Had I given away everything as you would expect one like me to do, I'd be homeless and on the public dole for housing, food and healthcare. And I'm not saying everyone who is hurting is lazy; but there are a great amount of people who are and live off the public dole. And it is also known that God helps those who help themselves. I have been working for a startup company for the past five months. I get up at 6:00 AM and get home at 5:00PM. My compensation for doing this: zero. I have not been paid a dime. I do this because if it works out, I will be making decent money again. It's a gamble I am willing to take. How many others would be willing to do this? How many people who were making 100K/yr won't take a job at 60K because it's just not worth it? And since you seem to be such a great preacher, have you given away all your money and have nothing to your name; or is everyone else supossed to do that?

I am not painting anything. You are painting that very bad image of yourself all by yourself. You are just trying to transfer blame off yourself like most republicans do.

I don't understand, what blame? I came from a poor family, went to college at night(paid for with student loans which took ten years) while working a full time job; became successful and shared my good fortune with many who needed assistance. Business then went sour and I've been trying to find another avenue to create income. All the while, I have not asked anyone, government or otherwise for a dime of money. I keep plugging away while keeping the faith. If you interpret this as a bad image, I'll gladly be called a terrible person. And you still haven't answered my question; have you given away all your money aside from what was necessary to live on, or do you just expect others to do so?

@Sandy, Missouri

. "Matthew 19:... 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle
than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

FYI, modern (as in post-James I) translations have clarified this passage.

In the Jerusalem wall, there was a small gate known as "the needle's eye" because of its size. Though difficult, a "good" camel (i.e. one that could "crouch"), or a "good" camel master could get through that small gate...

Meaning: not impossible, but difficult.

If the government takes over the malpractice lawyers will take a hit.

Oh no they won't , there is no tort reform in the Health Care bill ! Tort lawyers are the largest campaign donors to the Dem party !

Try using a few facts !