I use whatever form of discipline is appropriate in whatever circumstance, including spankings if absolutely necessary. My children have never, ever gotten in any kind of trouble for any form of aggression against another child. I think the researchers should recognize that not all aggression is caused by "spanking", and that maybe, just maybe, the children are actually being spanked BECAUSE they're more aggressive and need a spanking sometimes!

It's kind of hard to accept research that directly conflicts with all of your own real-life experience, so if you call it denial when I'm refusing to be brainwashed into accepting an idea that is being shoved down my throat when it goes contrary to what I know to be true in my own experience, then I guess I'm the Queen of Denial (yes I did).

Yeah hurt kids 20 years later arent they adult by 18?? you dont spank kids for 20 years to make a study, what a bunch of crock. You only spank kids when they deserves it, abuse is something else. Some kids need spanking even now!! more than ever!

Did they do a study on how bad mouthing kids are these days after they ruled spanking was abuse?? EXCUSE ME!!!

Go listen to a kids nowadays, and hear them cuss, i dont even cuss. I find it stupid to cuss.

im over 45 years old and i dont cuss, i never talked back to my parent because i would be slapped til next week. not like today if a kid get slapped all they do is call the police. then what!?!?! parent goto jail loses their job, then lose money for paying rent, then the family is homeless thanks to the kid!

nice tactic i must say!

I spanked my son when he was very young. But only if he did something VERY wrong, and ONLY so that he would understand how bad the mistake he made was. I think in all his life, he got three spankings. I only used my hand, he was always clothed, and I never gave more than three swats. It was enough. I think this study may be flawed. Did the parents who spanked their kids spank them daily? That to me would seem excessive.

More people hit their kids nowadays and more people verbally abuse their kids, too. I was never hit as a child nor was I ever verbally abused. My child was raised the same way and she is now 22. I seriously doubt she would ever hit her own child when she has one, either. She is a non-aggressive person and as a young child never got into a physical altercation with another child. I'm happy with the way I raised her and never found a situation where it was "necessary" to spank her.

Observing a steady decline in children's behavior and increased aggressiveness over the decades that coincides precisely with the notion that spanking is harmful shows this study to be pathological propaganda.

This is a crap study. Basing the study solely on the basis of if or if not a parent struck their child will lead to some very skewed data. Some parents actually hit their kids when they're mad, and call it discipline. My dad had set punishments for any situation. He would never punish us when he was angry, but would count up the spankings we would receive later. He'd run around the block if he was upset, than come back in. He would sit us down, explain why we were getting a spanking, give us a (very) light spanking, than ask us how we weren't going to do the same thing again. It was the psychology that was more effective than the punishment, but the fact that he had very set rules, with actual punishments, and stuck to those, got us kids to behave. It's the parents that hit their kids when they're angry, or let their kids hit them, and make punishment something emotional, those are the ones that will have aggressive kids acting out. This is like saying that being someone who drinks alcohol increases your odds of getting a DUI by 1XXXXXX% over someone who abstains from alcohol. Ridiculous waste of time.

Anyone who thinks hitting children is a positive action is totally in denial or just plain ignorant and too lazy to actually rear a child. Hitting children in any way is abuse and proves that there is a lack of respect of that child as an individual. Emotional abuse is also present in homes that hit rather than think and act like adults.

If it was done to you, that is no reason to pass it along to your own children! Break the chain of abuse by rearing your children through your good efforts and care, not by hitting! Hitting shows no love at all - hitting perverts love.

@Calvin

I'm 19 and in college now, and my mom only ever spanked me when I did something EXTREMELY bad. I would get a swat on the butt and sit in time out for a few minutes to reflect on what I had done. I'll tell you what, I never thought of doing it again after that. This study has me puzzled though... myself and all of my siblings have been raised this way yet none of us have ever lashed out physically towards another person (or animal). I think a lot of this depends on how punishment was carried out and what kind of home life kids have. It worked for me, and my parents when they were young. When I decide to have kids I'll raise them the way I think they should be raised, a swat at only the worst of offenses and teaching them right from wrong in what they do. I'm also not afraid of taking toys away or some timeout time if a kid becomes unruly and won't listen to the adult.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Love it or leave it as I like to say ;)

It's less about the act of spanking or hitting your kid. It's about how you deal with frustration and how you teach your kids to deal with the same frustration.

It's not easy being a parents and often extremely frustrating. When a parent hits a kid most of the time it's because they themselves can't control their frustration.

My dad used to hit us as kids for discipline all the time, I don't think it has any lasting impact on my life, but I can honestly say when I hear a door knob turn unexpectedly it still startles me.

I think parents who hit their kids have a hard time communicating with their children in the first place, that does more damage in the long run than the act of hitting.

How that you have repeated the text book bull.....watch some children from the time they can crawl....if one does something that the other does not like they strike out...you know instinct....you don't have to teach them to hit, you have to teach them not to hit....and their is a big difference in hitting and a swat on the butt.

Bobby... I couldn't agree more.

The immediate responses to this article are predictable and indeed, were predicted by the article itself and the first poster. People don't want to hear spanking is detrimental, to the point they'll fight tooth and nail against any such suggestion. They were spanked and they turned out all right so what's the problem? (Never mind they may have turned out better if they hadn't been spanked, but there's no way to know that.)

Study after study has shown the negative effects of spanking and STILL people won't accept it. No one wants to admit they and their parents may have been wrong. We have a violent culture and this is one of the ways it manifests itself.

People who freak out about spanking freak out about anything.

I do not spank my kid, but it isn't really because as far as I can tell, your kid will really only learn that you are bigger and you can get away with it. Then what they do is do the same thing to kids smaller than them.

Having said that, I question any 'study' that says it does more than that, like lead to violence. No problem if more studies are done, and they should be, just so enough evidence is out there to figure it out. But I really do question the motivation of a lot of these research groups.

Point is, I am not going to spank my kid. If you do yours, whatever, that is how you want to raise your child, that's up to you. Ultimately, our kids both will be held responsible for the behavior that they display and so it is simply a matter of what works in raising kids. And I really don't think there's been enough studies done, period, for all that there are regarding that.

@Travis - what a great post!

@BobbyJonesBia - Like you my dad hit me all the time as a kid - he beat me actually. I still quake when someone yells my name. My mother, on the other hand, spanked me - no anger, no screaming, no cursing, no abuse, just laid me over her knee and paddled me when I needed it. She never laid a finger on me unless I did something outright bad and wrong. My dad would fly off the handle at the slightest provocation and punish me to the extreme degree, no matter what sort of punishment he was doling out, he was doing it to an extreme. I hated him for many years after leaving home. He later took his own life, and I learned to forgive him and recognize he was emotionally disturbed for my whole childhood! My point is, I hold no ill will whatsoever for my mother - spanking and abuse are completely different.

One recent poll found that 22 percent of parents reported being "very likely" to spank their children

The free "Live Poll" above states about 56% spank their children. Our research dollars at work!!

Based upon the old version of discipline, that means all the baby boomers are basically aggressive people......or so traumatized or damaged to affect their adult lives.

Too much or too little of anything does not usually have the best outcomes.

When spanking went out the window at schools (yes, there were extreme cases), there was a whole multitude of consequences and a ripple effect. Classrooms are hardly containable and teachers have a hard time with any type of consequence for students' bad behaviors. Unless of course, the teacher gives all good grades and does not have any management skills, especially with older children.

On the other hand....Giving positive reinforcement is great, but so is constructive criticism and so is spanking. If all we do is provide timeout and other forms of positive discipline, what does that mean for children when they must learn how to deal with negative peers and a negative work environment?

Spare the rod and spoil the child. Some spanking is necessary and for some types of personalities, it might be essential. There are lessons to be learned at both ends of the spectrum.

What spanking teaches a child is that 'might makes right,' and if they turn out to be compliant with authority as adults, well, then they're succumbing to superior force. Some go just the opposite and can't abide any authority in their lives. There's no such thing as a child who "needs" to be spanked; there are only parents who are impatient. I sense a lot of guilt out there, but really, I think most kids forgive their parents anyway.

rhahdhdh

I completely know the difference, my point was for a parent it is much easier to just spank your kid to relieve your own frustration. I have two kids and a few times I have been so frustrated I had no idea what to do and the only thing I could think of was spank them. It scared the crap out of me because I was so mad who knew how hard I would hit them in the first place. I removed myself from the situation and calmed down before I did something I know I would regret.

On the flip side of this discussion, I am a firm believer that spoiling your kids or a lack of discipline is even more detrimental to your child's future.

Like I said before being a parent can be extremely frustrating, and we will all make mistakes. Whether or not a parent believes a spanking is right or wrong is their choice.

To me it's a mistake, How many people who have been spanked have heard "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you"? I know I did and many of my friends. If it hurts you to spank your kid to me it's a mistake.

The most profoundly negative effect of articles and studies such as this is that many unsophisticated parents get the message that spanking is considered a bad thing to do but they don't know of any other other method to discipline their children (and of course there are many), so instead of spanking, they do NOTHING. The end result of this is nightmarishly undisciplined little tyrannical brats who think they can get away with ANYTHING.

You*Blankity* *Blank* *Blank*. You *Blank*! I outta *Blank* you in the *Blankity* *Blank*! LOL. Just kidding!Iit's dumb to think that kids who get spanked are some how more violent then kids who don't. It's just another scapegoat given to people to avoide being responsible for their actions and behaviors. I was spanked as a child and I didn't have to get spanked that often, because I learned that there were rules and boundaries and things that were acceptable and things that weren't AND it most certianly hasn't made me more violent. If I do find myself getting angry enough that I start feeling violent it isn't because of what my parents did or didn't do to discipline me that is my choice...I choose to stay in a situation I know I won't respond well to. That's why we have brains is to know when a situation could be bad for us and to have the good sense to walk away or excuses ourselves from it. Spanking has nothing to do with no self control and just being a moron.

rhahdhdh, I feel you there.

During my parent's divorce I was sent to live with my aunt and uncle. They beat me. I kinda turned psycho over it (manic depressive, and suicidal for a lot of years.).

My grandmother, on the other hand, who was the one who practically raised me, did spank me on occasion. I'll admit, I deserved every one. From the time I smashed a glass bottle on purpose and lied about it, to the time I yelled right in her face (I was maybe, 10?) I deserved every single one. She never did it in anger. She merely told me, very calmly, to go in my room, and lay on my bed, and wait for her. She'd do that to give me time to think about what I'd done, and also probably give herself time to cool off, since she had a temper about as short as my own. I don't think regular time outs would have done the trick, since I got a few of those from time to time, but it never stuck in my memory much what I did to deserve those, and I probably wound up doing it again. After 10 or so minutes, she would come in, and give me a few swats, and I'd boo-hoo, like kids are wont to do. Then came the best part, though.

She'd pick me up, and hold me on her lap, and explain exactly WHY she'd had to spank me. She said that she wanted me to be a good girl, and that she loved me very much, and that it was to help me remember there are some things good girls don't do. (Like lie, or be disrespectful.)

During my suicidal teen years, I never looked at my spankings from her as the reason for my mental issues. I only looked back to my aunt and uncle who beat me for no reason at all. (Among other things. I have a lot of family drama.) But I never hated my grandmother. Never resented her, and looking back, I can see that her influence made me what I am. (As you can see, I eventually got over the suicidal depression. That was a little bit of Grandma and a whole lot of God's doing!)

So spank if you need to. Only be sparing, appropriate, and calm. Make the punishment fit the crime, and always tell them you love them after. Never hit out of anger or shortness of temper. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I could have called the police whenever I was spanked or slapped when I was a teenager. It was my choice. Two things always kept me from considering it though. First, I knew that I was getting what I actually deserved and second, Mom always promised that if I called the police and she got arrested, that when she finally did get out, the first whippin' was nothing compared to the one I would get then. My Mom never lied to me and I assure you she meant every word of her promise.

I love my Mom.

@BobbyJonesBia

I agree, I have also felt that sense of frustration with my children and not knowing what to do I have given out some sort of punishment in anger because it's all I could think to do at the moment. Believe it or not, i do that most often with timeouts! I have sometimes yelled at them and told them they were going to spend the whole day in timeout, and other stupid things like that. They respond with ......anger and aggression......red-faced screaming and hatred directed at me! Generally when this happens I leave the room until I calm down, I say a prayer, then I start thinking "okay, what did he actually do that was wrong, why was it wrong, and how can I talk to him to help him understand why it's wrong". come back when their timeout is done, and start with, "Mommy is sorry for getting too mad." After he understands that I'm truly sorry for my actions, then I go on with talking about what he did that was wrong.

The same thing has also happened when I have spanked them when I was frustrated or angry. After we have both calmed down, I go back and apologize for getting too angry. And then we talk about what was really the thing they did wrong, and why it's wrong, etc.

But the vast majority of the times that I resort to spanking, which is not that often, I am doing it with a cool head and have already tried other methods. One such incident occurred last fall with my oldest son, who suddenly began misbehaving at school. It was pure kids stuff - making rude noises and stuff disrupting class just to get other kids to laugh. I'm not going to go into all the details, but suffice it to say we and the teachers and principal and even the school counselor tried every form of positive and negative reinforcement both at school and at home, but nothing was enough to make him stop - he confessed to me he was still acting up because it was fun!!! Finally I had his teacher start calling me at the first sign of misbehavior. When she did I dropped everything and went to the school, took him out to the privacy of the car, and spanked him. He kept a tough composure and wouldn't even cry (it was only 3 swats anyway), I took him back to class, and let him know his teacher would be calling me as soon as he did anything naughty again. You know what I'm going to say....yes, he turned his behavior around almost immediately and he is now back to being my little model first-grader. I didn't want to have to hurt my son, but you have to understand that people (yes even child-people) have some bad tendencies, and sometimes only physical pain is enough to keep them from acting on those tendencies. If I hadn't given him that spanking when he clearly needed it, I don't know when he would ever have stopped his behavior - it went on for over a month. He may have turned into a really troubled kid who just couldn't help himself, and learned to hate himself for the rest of his life. He wouldn't stop himself. I had to stop him, got it??? This is the purpose of the spanking.

And I really appreciate that you say that it's a parents own decision whether they spank, and I'm sure you are a great parent, you seem very loving and reasonable.

In the U.S., physical punishment is such an entrenched part of the culture that virtually no one has experienced growing up without it," Durrant said. "This situation makes it difficult for parents to visualize raising a child without it."

I was watching the Discovery channel, and came across a show about a tribe that put fire ants on their childrens genitals...welcoming them into adulthood.

This story if a joke isn't it?? A good swift kick in the a-- has been known to put some on the straight & narrow and is a good thing. Some of your most notable Serial Killers were raised by books written by the same people that did this study while others were pre-designed to be just mean people. Some people will do anything and blame anyone for their violent behavior except themselves.

This study is a crock. I got spanked as a child when I did something really wrong and I am not a all an aggressive person. This study makes a causal link without any pro to back it up. First of all, there is a difference between an occasional spanking for doing something really wrong and getting hit all the time. Second, the study does not look at whether the kid got spanked more because they had an aggressive personality to start with or if the spanking caused the personality. I do not think that hitting a kid all the time is a good thing to do. However, a spanking once in a while when they do something really bad is appropriate and helps drive the point home that this is something they should never do again. I look at the kids today that were raised with this positive motivation garbage and see ho disrespectful and out of control they are and seriously question how anyone with a brain can think that this method of raising a kid actually works. This Dr. Spock positive motivation crap results in raising kids with no sense of respect for anyone and no sense of polite behavior in a civil society. They end up self centered, me me me types that have absolutely no manners or class.

Study after study has shown the negative effects of spanking and STILL people won't accept it.

For a reason. For a good reason. Those doing these "studies" have a materialistic agenda, an anti-spiritual agenda, and their only real purpose, when you yank away the cloak, is to "prove" the Bible "wrong."

King Solomon the Wise wrote that a parent has an obligation to discipline their child, even when that means a swat on the backside. The long term effects of a lack of well-defined limits are far more harmful to a child than a spanking. If you must cite research, note that research has corroborated THIS.

No one doubts that the painful injection of a measles vaccine is beneficial to a child. To pretend that there could be no psychological analogue is to be deliberately foolish. Spanking in the right way at the right time for the right reason is not morally different than having a doctor give a child an injection to prevent a physical disease.

These "studies" are typically flawed in that they do not consider the whole picture; for example, they do not distinguish between a swat on the seat of the pants for playing with knives or running into the street at two years old (you do not keep your two-year old out of traffic by 'reasoning' with him) and an inappropriate enraged excess of physical violence in response to a mere parental inconvenience. A limited and appropriate creation of an association of (non-injurious) pain with dangerous or malicious behavior is not an inappropriate parental strategy.

Solomon was right. "Spare the rod, spoil the child." At eight or nine, the damage a child can do to himself and others is much greater than it is at two. Witness the nine-year olds who have been arrested for murder in recent years. But the punishment must fit the offense. The willow switch of past generations may seem harsh to us, but they didn't so routinely have nine-year old children stabbing their playmates in those days, either. When the government can guarantee that every child conceived will live to be 80 years old, then the government may have a reason to interfere with a parent's job. Until then the government should respect the idea that a man's home is his castle, and stay on the proper side of that wall. Some talk about a wall of separation between church and state and yet fail to grasp that if there is any such wall, the wall of separation between the family and the state is thicker and higher by far, else all talk of the former is empty.

The people doing these "studies" have an anti-spiritual bias that prevents them from properly controlling for the many spiritual dimensions of this question. How could they? They are not even aware that such dimensions exist.

Of course they are going to get the wrong answers, and the answer, in particular, that they want to get.

Their "research" does not "prove" Solomon wrong. It only proves them spiritually ignorant.

Those of us who are willing to see both sides of this issue and use a measure of common sense to see that there are merits to both points of view (spanking is often an inappropriate emotional response on the one hand, and spanking correctly done is sometimes the only appropriate rational response on the other) can see that there is a great deal of truth to the view that there is an observable correlation between the increasingly fervent public demonization of spanking by self-appointed "experts" and and the equally public increase in the wild, arrogant, irresponsible, and -- yes, violent -- behavior of young people over the past thirty years or so.

It is undoubtedly true that in families that routinely hit their children in anger for every annoyance, the children grow up to be aggressive and violent, and treat their children the same way.

There is another trend that such "studies" as these, however, will never see because they will never look for it. It is equally undoubtedly true that in families that are so terrified of the stigma attached to spanking their children that they refuse under any circumstances to spank their child, that their children will grow up narcissistic, self-centered in the extreme, anti-social, and -- yes, Virginia -- violently impatient.

There is a middle ground here that every responsible loving parent instinctively knows -- or soon enough learns -- that is not going to win the approval of either camp on the extremes of this issue. But every parent of a child that has grown into an adult respectful of the personal space of others knows what path they took to get there. And thus they know that they did not get their understanding from any of the current "experts" in this "field."

It is impossible to create a "scientific" definition for a loving spanking, but every parent in this third and middle group knows that the term is not, as the scientific community would falsely have us believe, an oxymoron. It is a perhaps not-so-simple but yet commonsense and commonplace reality.

The spoiled, shrieking, temper-tantrum throwing brat in the grocery store that has its mom so cowed that she is utterly powerless to confront the little tyrant that is dominating every adult human being in the store without the slightest remorse is the necessary and sufficient proof--to everything there is a season and a time to every purpose: a time for a hug, and a time for a spanking; a time for paying reasoned attention to a intelligent well-balanced research study, and a time for common sense to overrule the nonsensical pontifications of government-funded third party ivory tower "experts."

The self centered me, me, me, types became that way because they never heard the word No. It's not a result of positive motivation.

Positive motivation is necessary for a child to gain confidence and independance. Discipline does not always require a spanking. Some cases a parent may decide it's necessary, and unless it is apparent abuse it isn't for any of us to judge. However it doesn't mean other forms of discipline aren't as or even more effective.

If you don't want to raised spoiled brats spankings are not always necessary. The key is routines at a young age, teaching boundaries, teaching chores, forcing your children to do things by themselves when you know it can be done. You have to make your kids frustrated in order for them to learn how to deal with it, and once they finally do it alone they are the happiest you have ever seen them.

I would think a lack of positive motivation would lead to more aggression later in life than an abundance of positive motivation. I doubt many people sitting in jail right now lived in a house with a high level of positive motivation.

I do agree the study is flawed though.

Model violence for your children, and you teach them violence.

Why is this even news? (Answer: Because so many people are in denial about this obvious implication.)

Based on some of these comments, I suspect if you asked the average American what stage of cognitive development their kid was in, they would be absolutely clueless. A toddler does not have the intellectual capacity to assign values to behavior the way an adult can, therefore, spanking a toddler is nothing more than the equivalent of negative operant conditioning.

In many of the comments above, you could substitute the word dog for kid or child and it would sound exactly like the way some people train their dogs.

It's interesting that many people use their personal, anecdotal evidence and try to use it to invalidate a scientific study.

Per my previous post, I do think this study is crap, and I do think that it doesn't differentiate between abuse and discipline, however, just a side point.

The verse in which Solomon is quoted as saying, "spare the rod, spoil the child", please keep in mind this wasn't advocating caning. The Israelites were a culture of herders, sheep, goats, etc. They used what they called a guiding rod in order to keep the flock together... they wouldn't hit them, they were just use it to "steer" the flock the direction they needed to go. This is how the contemporaries of Solomon's day would have understood the verse, as giving their children support and direction. Not all kids need physical discipline (I sure did), but the principal of the verse was that children need attention, guidance, and direction in order to grow up correctly. Just a side point.

Travis...I hear the "Spare the rod, spoil the child" line often.

I ask, then what is the meaning of "Thy rod and thy staff, they guide me."?

Well I didn't really answer the question, because it's a Yes/No thing, no "occasionally" or "rarely," which was in my case. I think that this is an emotional issue, and people who advocate "no spanking" have good intentions but tend to offend parents who have done it (and let's face it, the majority of us have done it at least once). In my opinion, little todders can't really be reasoned with. If they do something that puts themselves in danger, like try to run away from you in a crowded parking lot (which kids tend to do), you don't have time for a long-winded explanation, and a little swat on the butt will get their attention - plus it's alot less harmful than getting hit by a car! "Time-outs" are a waste of time, IMO, but when my girls got older I found sending them to bed early was a fate worse than death! And when they started getting an allowance, well, now THAT'S some leverage!

Overall my girls are great, responsible, caring people. They didn't get spanked NEARLY as often as I did, but it did happen a few times. Would they have been "better people" if they weren't spanked? Honestly, it's hard to imagine that they could be any better than they are now, so despite this study I have to say "I doubt it."

I know, people like to take scripture out of context, you have to consider what it meant to the listeners at the time it was written, not what we think it means now... basic stuff

Bourlon..."If they do something that puts themselves in danger, like try to run away from you in a crowded parking lot (which kids tend to do), you don't have time for a long-winded explanation, and a little swat on the butt will get their attention..."

How is a toddler supposed to distinguish from running away in the house, backyard or play ground, from running away in crowd? Kid just learns to take a glance at the parents to find out if they're going to get wacked for .... whatever.

Toddlers are supposed to distinguish because parents are supposed to train them. Just like you train you toddler to never stop off the sidewalk into the street. It takes effort, but you shouldn't make up excuses for not trying to train your kids to avoid dangers. Also, as T Bourton said, giving them physical deterrent for dangerous activities reinforces this training.

Hitting other people, including your own chiildren, is assault -- plain and simple. "Spanking' perpetuates a culture of violence and a "might makes right" mentality. Spanking is ALWAYS wrong.

And Travis: "No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means." – George Bernard Shaw Religion is hogwash. Do what's RIGHT.

Madison, I'm glad you've deemed yourself responsible for defining what is right and wrong, and condemning all who don't feel the same way as you. Nice condemnation of the majority of mankind who do have religious beliefs. Your personal set of moral codes is your own religion, therefore, you could say that you are a religious person as well.

Although, I am with you that organized religion tends to make a mess out of things.

Al Bundy summed it up on how to to handled a kid with a smart mouth, " Shut Up ! Or it's five across the eyes !"

Big difference between discipline and punishment....in love or whatever.

Punishment is part of discipline - yes it teaches them something. Any form of discipline can be done in an unloving way, and in a way that would cause the child to act out later out of frustration.

I believe it is possible to discipline a child without using physical force. I think spanking merely shows frustration on the parent's part or a lack of imagination or creativity where discipline is concerned. I also think it shows a touch of laziness to spank a child. So yeah, go on and scream at me now. I know a lot of you don't like what I just typed but if you really think about it, you know it's got some merit.

Spanking is used occasionally in our home, only if they are causing danger to themselves or others, or if other methods have not worked and they're purposely disobeying. Time-outs, discussion, and removing privilges are our preferred ways to discipine. We never spank with objects, or skin-to-skin (the two year old might get a tap on the back of his hand and a loud 'NO' for trying to grab a hot pan, or for throwing a toy at someone). And our method seems to be working. When we're in public, we get comments about how well-behaved our kids are, and it's not because they're in fear of us.

rhahdhdh..."Punishment is part of discipline"

You write that as if it is an absolute. It is not. To discipline is to teach. One can teach without punishing. But maybe not if the individual lacks, and refuses to learn, the parenting skills to do so.

Agreed JohnC. I deserved every spanking I got and I've never been aggressive. Everyone I know was spanked as a child. None of us have been in any trouble. To this day, and I am 30 years old, I do not disrespect my parents or any elder. People who want to discount spanking can easily find a group of people to support what they want to prove.

JohnC, the article doesn't say anything about children 50 years ago. It also doesn't say that children today are any more or less aggressive than 50 years ago. However, it does say, "In the U.S., physical punishment is such an entrenched part of the culture that virtually no one has experienced growing up without it." So what's your point? Why should children be any different today than 50 years ago when people like you, Stephanie and child-rearing "expert" Dr. John Rosemond stubbornly refuse to accept the results of study after study that show spanking is not a healthy way to discipline children. Saying, "Well, I was spanked and I'm ok, so spanking is ok." doesn't discredit the studies.

I spanked my oldest child, which I'll always regret. I was a young, inexperienced and impulsive parent. I never spanked my other two kids. I learned that spanking is never necessary and that there are always less aggressive and more thoughtful, compassionate and effective alternatives.

I'm the same, I deserved every spanking I got but it was rare when I got them. So far I've never been in a fight, I've never hit anyone out of anger and if I lose my temper I know to walk away. Here's the thing:

Over the past two decades, research has increasingly found links between such "everyday" types of physical punishment and higher levels of child aggression, according to the review

Everyday? No. Spanking should only be when other forms of punishment aren't working. If a parent tells a child not to do something multiple times then a spanking is the final solution. NEVER spank a child in anger, most parents who have been spanked themselves as children know this. If you spank a kid everyday and use spanking and the first punishment then of course there may be issues. Articles like this, that only bring the extreme to light, do nothing to help solve the problem as it only serves to make people who are so hardcore against spanking no matter the situation...foam at the mouth.

Not all children learn the same. I had to be spanked, my sister didn't. I don't hold that against my family, I certainly can't blame them for it as I liked to push the limits....a lot. Putting me in a time out was never a punishment, and talking to me was just a lesson for me to fade out and not pay attention.

Oh, and FYI childhood aggression is at an all time low (we just have more communication these days).

http://childstats.gov/americaschildren/beh5.asp

fully agree there Lyrica. When I got punished, spanking or otherwise, I generally deserved it. Every now and then my brother earned it for me lol. I love how the article cherry picks statements:

"For example, the more often a child sees a parent respond to conflict or frustration with slapping or spanking, the more likely that child will do the same when confronting their own conflicts," Durrant said.

Perhaps Durant should learn the differentiate between discipline/punishment and anger/frustration response? I don't ever recall being spanked in anger/frustration. Generally there was plenty of warning and I KNEW what the bounds were. Crossing that black and white line had consequences in no uncertain terms.

As Lyrica said, time outs did little if anything. Being sent to my room meant TV time which could be a real punishment if all that was on were soaps. Then again there were perhaps 6 channels of nothing if the weather were just right instead of 500 there are today.

Unfortunately, many parents, (including mine when I was young, and their parents, and so on) are never going to understand or care about the difference between discipline/punishment and anger/frustration in their responses. Being a parent is hard, and when you're in the heat of the moment, it's not easy to enforce discipline with a calm mind (or hand).

I was often spanked for little or no reason, and hard (borderline beating). How lucky that you spanking supporters had parents who set clear boundaries and could administer their discipline reasonably. I think if your parents had replaced spanking with another firm form of punishment (hint: NOT time outs or time in your room--there ARE other options), you probably still would have turned out fine and the discipline would have been effective. Unfortunately, that is usually NOT the case with most spankings--and as this study, and my own personal experience has made clear, spanking leads to aggression.

Spanking should be outlawed. If you can't find a way to effectively discipline your child that doesn't involve physical violence, you're a bad parent--or your child is very, very stupid. Parenting is hard, and spanking is the easy way out.

If you don't beat your children they'll grow up to be liberals ....

Sedna1- My point is pretty simple. If we weren't seeing scary aggressive tendencies and depression in children 50 years ago, when people spanked more often than now, the whole thesis is BS.

Look at the schools then. Look at schools now.

I rest my case.

Precededbynone sorry can't and won't agree my dad and my mom used spanking's" it is called discipline" to keep me in countrole and safe I love the hell out of them for doing it i would not be here today if it where not for them. im not a bad guy .some would say i would give you the shirt off my back if you needed it got that from my dad. it taught me respect and tuff love we need much more of it today the kids most not all are way out of countrole and have no respect for life

I was spanked as a child- as punishment, not an angry reaction. I also got my mouth washed out with soap. When I was in my 20's I thanked my mom for keeping me in line. I was working in the toy department (aka let your kids run wild department) in walmart at the time.

Seriously a load of crap!!!!! I'm 44 years old and I can tell you that the kids that come thru our classrooms today have many, many more disciplinary problems and are much more aggressive than those 20-something years ago! This, contributed to passive parenting and/or non-parenting based on what we observe day to day--those are the kids that seem to wind up on "behavior" plans. These kids have never had to learn that there are consequences to their actions. I get soooooo annoyed when I see these bogus studies and all the comments that agree with them (yeah, your kids are probably the ones that are so disruptive and cause so much class time to be taken away from those that are trying to learn!). Let's just look back at history and think about when we saw the majority of children who were polite, respectful, had a sense of integrity, and had manners. (Hint-It wasn't in this last decade!!)

Agree! I was given the occasional spank as a child - when I deserved it. I am the least aggressive person I know.

KinderT.,

It's the same only larger and louder in high school.

JohnC- thank you, I am glad to see that there are a few people left in the world who can still use their brains. Why should anyone believe "studies" funded by the American establishment? Their whole goal is the destruction of marriage (except for gay marriage), family, traditional values, religion, and social structure. That leaves the state, the government, standing supreme. When spanking was suddenly made "child abuse" a generation ago, the true aim was the break down of parental authority (especially in the poor or the middle class family). Funny how something that the human race had been doing for thousands of years suddenly became child abuse, and parents everywhere started to fear arrest for a simple paddling of an out-of-control brat -- was there a national referendum or something? No, a decision happened in a smoke-filled room, my friends. Enforced public schooling 7 hours a day 5 days a week was not about scholastic learning -- American "education" is a complete joke, a fraud -- it was about tearing children away from their parents, and brainwashing them. The establishment wants to run the USA into the ground and they have succeeded. The wound is mortal.

And after 20+ years of this "abuse" theory, children are disrespectful and foul-mouthed. Teachers are arrested for defending themselves from abusive teenagers. I grew up in the 60s when any adult who saw you could call you on bad behavior and you did not tell them to go f themselves, because by the time you got home your mom or dad was at the door waiting for you. Parents are terrified to discipline their kids and the kids know it. They threaten their parents with calling the police if they attempt to discipline them in any way. The psycho-babble crowd has raised a generation of children who have no respect for anyone or anything, including themselves. I spanked my kids when it was necessary and they turned out to be respectful, productive adults who I am very proud of. If they want to find a reason for aggressive behavior, they need to start looking at the movies, music and video games that kids are bombarded with 24/7. But apparently, that has nothing to do with agressive behavior. Who ever did this "study" was paid too much and knows absolutely nothing about children.

So, JohnC, you're saying that the increase in behavioral and disciplinary problems in kids today is proof that these studies are bogus because kids are spanked less today than 50 years ago? I'm sure you see the flaws in that logic. There are many reasons why this might be so that have absolutely nothing to do with spanking and are much more likely to be the main contributors, such as significantly less parenting in general (due to increasing numbers of broken families, single parent families, latchkey kids, etc.) and increasing poverty, to identify two of the more obvious ones. I'm sure this study effectively eliminated those variables.

Sedna1...not to mention the multitude of chemicals found in food today that were not part of the diet 50 years ago.

Carletta..."They threaten their parents with calling the police if they attempt to discipline them in any way."

If a child is old enough to understand he/she can call the police on their parents, and does so, that parent made monumental failures as a parent long before then.

It's common in these discussions for the adults to focus on and/or lay blame on the child's behavior, and totally ignore their own, which plays the biggest role in how the child is behaving in the first place.

Exactly!!!!

The largest factor on if you spank a child as a form of punishment is if you were spanked as a child. Kinda blows your causality argument out of the water...

They didn't say that spanking is the only cause of aggression. They said that, overall, a child that is spanked is at least slightly more likely to show agressive tendancies than one that is not.

This, by the way, is not news to anyone in the scientific community.

THANK YOU WRYVIEW!! I feel sorry for the child who needs a spanking and happens to have been born to a parent who thinks it's wrong to spank! You can get over being spanked once too often, it's a lot harder to get for kids later in life who got screwed up by a parent who let you grow up wrong because of fear of hurting your feelings!

I believe it's wrong to spank but if you're a good parent, then your child never "needs a spanking." Come on. What kind of thing is that to say? No child ever needs a spanking. Instead, they need parents who know how to discipline in a firm and consistent way without resorting to physical force used by knuckle-dragging cave-dwellers.

I whipped my son, once, when he was 16 years old. It didn't phase him....I squalled like a baby. At 16 years old he needed professional help, something that I didn't realize until he was in his early 20's. He may not remember the whipping but I will never forget it as long as I live.

I'm not against physical punishment. All I'm saying is that you should give it serious thought well before you administer it. I'm sure good parents will.

I was whipped and paddled in school. It never, and I mean NEVER, taught me right from wrong or any positive values. All it taught me was, if you're going to do something your parents disapprove of, either make sure you don't get caught, or make certain the rewards are worth the potential punishment.

In sixth grade after being paddled, my friends all came to me and asked how it was. Not wanting to come across as a sissy, I told them it didn't hurt that much. They were all proud of me. That was when I learned getting paddled was actually an initiation in to manhood. Never worried about getting paddled again and bragged about it when I did. Those teachers and principals were clueless.

I wish they had a second question linking spankers and non-spankers to political parties. I did sort of an informal survey on this years ago, virtually all spankers were right-wingers well non-spankers were progressives.

Makes sense I think when you look at party policies. I willing to bet that the far right spankers think using a belt or some king of paddle is appropriate.

For the record. Non-spanker, Progressive. Never spanked as a child either.

I wasn't spanked and was raised by a republican (mom) and an independent (dad). I am now an independent mom who married a democrat that officially switched to the republican party about 6 years ago. Neither one of us ever spanked our two children.

My parents (left-leaning) occasionally spanked me, and hubby and I (also left-leaning) occasionally spank our kids.

Wow New Day I did a similar study and found just the opposite to be true,with liberal children totally out of control in public, screaming running around ,crawling on top of booths in restaurants,as adults nothings changed.

It must have been a really informal survey. My father never hesitated to unload on me. Die-hard, life-long Democrat.

I'll admit that my "survey" was anecdotal, just as all of yours are. Just saying I'd be curious to see the results of an actual survey of a representative sampling. Just seems to me that there are some parallels with how one looks at things within their own family and how they look at things politically.

Shouldn't take a genius to see that authoritarianism and punishment are pretty conservative concepts. Think mandatory sentencing and things like the death penalty. Seems a lot like adult versions of spanking. It's all a question of what you see as the most effective ways of correcting inappropriate behavior. I can't argue that the death penalty isn't effective in stopping an individual's bad behavior. But then it isn't exactly a corrective measure.

I read these boards a lot and know a lot of the posters by their opinions. Seems like when you read about a variety of incidents, the suggestions of extreme and sometimes brutal punishment come predominantly from the righties. Could be a learned philosophy, in some cases dating back to childhood. A lot about our attitude is shaped as a child. Just a theory I'd like to see explored.

And WLEE, are you saying that liberals need to be spanked? Sounds kind of like you are supporting my crude analysis.

Where is the proof that spanking leads to abuse? Certainly, there are most likely parents out there that discipline by spanking and also abuse their child, but I would bet that there are also parents out there that do not discipline by spanking and still abuse their child.

Also, I am guessing you don't have a child of your own- if you did, you would know from experience that a child rarely stops a wrong behavior for good after one time of discipline, regardless of the type of discipline (i.e., spanking, time out, taking away privileges, etc.). Discipline/training is a process.

I'm a parent and I agree with tinlou. If my child didn't stop bad behavior from one way of discipline, I tried another. Just not with physical force. There are plenty of ways to discipline a child without being abusive and/or hitting him/her. But you're a parent, JTFP, so you must know that, right?

I know first hand what a "spanking" is like. It is a result of bad parenting as I lived with it for 18 years! Those that spank usually are verbally abusive as well. To those who say they deserved the spanking, I ask who told them they deserved it? Was it your parents? Funny, how that works. Sorry, spanking is nothing more than physical abuse which leads kids to become abusers of their spouses, significant others or their children. They never learn to control themselves and result to violence. Proof of those who were spanked becoming abusers, I only have to look at my sisters, brothers, and cousins to see how they treated their kids and now their grandkids. Spanking is all about control, anger, abuse and to instill fear (a form of anger) in your kids.

Yeah, because the new way of parenting has worked out so well...

There is a huge difference between a "bribe" and a reward. A reward doesn't have to be something material or a pay off. A reward can simply mean that a parent tells their child, "Great job! I'm proud of you for..." or a hug. If a child is rewarded from the beginning like this, they don't expect material rewards. As a child, I never received an allowance for doing basic chores or things I was supposed to do anyway. I was, however, rewarded regularly with praise which was better to me than toys or treats. I would receive larger rewards, like toys or treats, if I accomplished something more significant because it was something I worked hard for. How is that not like the "real world?" If you work hard for something, generally your efforts are rewarded in some way. Your pay as an employee is your "reward" for your work. As an adult, I work hard for everything I have. I don't expect to have things handed to me "just because." I was also never spanked as a child. My parents very rarely had to apply any type of discipline because I was properly taught that good behavior was appropriate. If I did require discipline, it was enough for my parents to simply sit down and explain to me why my behavior was inappropriate. The disappointment and disapproval was enough to encourage good behavior. In the real world, are you regularly spanked for inappropriate behavior? Does your boss take you into the office and strike you in order to right a wrong? I don't believe I've ever been physically punished in the "real world." If you have been, or if you are not being rewarded for good work, you should seriously consider a change in career.

One type of discipline does not fit all, timeouts might work for one but not another, same goes for toys and spankings

wlee....There are many types of discipline. It's the responsibility of the parent to find the one that works for their child. Or, one could take the easy way out and resort to punishment, of which there are many types, including spanking.

You're not an axe murderer Chuck, but you are murdering your children's spirit and making them afraid of you. Why would you want to do that? It's so much nicer when they love and respect you for being a kind parent and a wonderful teacher of life.

@ Rukidding I recently witnessed that childish spirit in the grocery store recently. Two boys probably 7-10 years old kicking and pulling at their mother because she wasn't buying them what they wanted. There is very little respect in young people today for authority, ask most teachers. A firm swat on the behind with explanation of what the punishment was for never hurt anyone. Parents today are too busy trying to be their children's friend instead of their parents. I would point to the amount of violence on TV, in video games and movies as a lot more harmful.

I love it when people say anything about "young people today..." or "parents today" as if your parents weren't saying the exact same thing about you when you were young.

I'm sure things were SO much better, back in your day.

.

Preceded by None. Actually in this area they were. We would have never dreamed of being in a classroom and verbally or physically assaulting a teacher. Now it happens regularly. I would have never dreamed of throwing my empty soda bottle, gum wrapper, etc on the neighbors lawn on my walk home from school. Now drive into any subdivision in middle America and follow the kids on their walk from home. It is coddling gone overboard.

Chuck, I never hit my child and because of the type of environment she was raised in, she was just never the type who would "burn the house down." I don't think I was lucky, I think I was just a good parent. I set rules and she knew not to break them. If she did, she wouldn't get a certain thing she wanted... like a tv show, or to stay up late, or whatever. And I STUCK TO IT and was CONSISTENT. That's the biggest mistake parents make nowadays. When a child cries loud and long enough, parents usually give in and let the child win. I never did. It takes a lot of work and determination to do that at first but what you end up with at about age 4 is a child who listens and doesn't act up if you remain consistent. Age 4 is considered the age of reasoning and you cannot expect to reason with a child any younger. If you hit your child earlier than that, you simply create a pattern and nothing more.

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

-- attributed to Socrates

Some things never change

Kat...it takes fortitude on the parents part to be consistent and stick to their rules. With TV, video games, email, texting, etc, how is a parent these days supposed to be consistent? (sarcasm intended.)

I would suggest that the people that agree with spanking watch a few episodes of the Nanny. Isn't it interesting how she can move in with totally out of control kids and get them in line in no time? Crazy part is, she never once raises a hand to them.

hs, I started parenting when she was born. She didn't watch tv, play video games, text, or email her friends when she was in diapers. There are some parents here talking about spanking babies, for God's sake, and I think that's just wrong on so many levels. Babies do not misbehave so they don't need to be spanked. When a baby cries, it's because they need something or they're sick. If a baby is just crying and won't go to sleep, then you have to check the situation out to make sure there isn't anything wrong, and then (get ready for this) LET THE BABY CRY IT OUT and learn how to calm himself down. I spent a total of two nights listening to my daughter cry for no reason and then she never did it again unless there was something wrong. As for misbehaving when they become toddlers... removing a favorite toy or a timeout works wonders with consistency and if you don't give in. When a child learns that you're not a pushover, they grow up knowing this and are well-behaved so you never have a reason to spank them. My daughter was perfectly able to reason with when she was 4 or 5 and never "needed a spanking" like some of the people on this board seem to think their children regularly do. You have to start young. My daughter knew that if I calmly threatened to take away her cell phone for a month, it wasn't an empty threat. I never had to take it away. We have a good relationship today (she's an adult now) and I have a good one with my stepson, too. He was always a great kid who never gave us a minute of trouble. Again, never spanked by us or my husband's ex-wife. We were all very much aligned as far as parenting went and wanted what was best for our kids. Both of them today are very well educated and contribute in a positive way to society. I feel like I've done a good job all without ever raising my hand.

You people are all a bunch of fools. Do you really think violence in the classroom didn't happen "back in the day" or back in your day? Have you EVER cracked a history book?!

I think people back in your day should have studied a bit harder. Maybe you're right--and your parents didn't spank you hard enough. Or maybe I'm right--and they spanked the smart right out of you.

I just finished a book on Victorian England. Foreigners who would come to visit complained constantly about the children of that country being "coddled" and "spoiled"--yes, back in the 1800s, when spanking was common-place, even then. You think the young generation is the first one to be complained about?

I can also recall reading several other books in which violence in schools was VERY common throughout American history, particularly in rural areas in America. Teachers were killed and beaten. Some children were just as out of control then as they are now, and have always been. You just didn't hear about it going viral on the internet all the time, or have to witness it in the local Wal*Mart.

I'm astounded by your ignorance. It's not the lack of spanking that makes a child spoiled--it's just poor parenting, period. It's not spanking alone that makes your child behave--it's good, consistent parenting. Period. IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE A GOOD PARENT WITHOUT SPANKING YOUR CHILD. You just actually have to use that brain you allegedly have in your head. J

Upon further reading, you should not be spanking kids too young to understand what they did wrong (3 years olds for example, as stated in the article.)

Kids under three are perfectly capable of knowing when they did something wrong.

Absolutely not. Children in the preoperational and sensorimotor stages of life do not have the capacity to understand how or if their actions affect others. They are only able to undesrtand the world from their perspective and are not truly aware of other's perspectives. Please do some research before making such a claim and presenting it as fact when the facts out there clearly indicate otherwise.

Kids should be afraid to get into trouble, or else what's stopping them?

Are you REALLY saying that you believe the only way to make children obey is through fear? Please tell me you don't have children of your own.

kids one year old knows what is wrong and what is right. geeesus people, dont make a number inhibit you spanking moods, if the child at 1 trashes the house you spank them, dont say ooooh he is having one of his moods. not in my household, its get WHOOPED!!!!

I promise you it'll learn from day one! mess up and i get pain! hmmm

parents today have failed at parenting. simple as that.

Kids should be afraid to get into trouble, or else what's stopping them?

I was , I believe my dad was harder on me than most parents are on there kids. He was old school raised in the depression era . I stayed out of trouble and now own the home that i built and am working on a 2nd retirement while some of the kids i wanted to be like are in jail or have died . He was a parent more than a friend and although i once despised him i now understand he always loved me.

Sloppyjoes...Holy cow! Where did you get that Belostomatidae? That thing is huge!

Let the discipline fit the crime. If a child 'trashes' a house, then they have to CLEAN IT UP THEMSELVES. If they hit their friend or sibling, they don't get to play with them, or whatever they were playing with. If they throw food, they get it taken away and HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP (even a two year old is capable of cleaning it up). I DO NOT believe in spanking, I believe in clear consequences that ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE. If they start to run out into the road, pull them back, set them firmly down, LOOK STRAIGHT INTO THEIR EYES and tell them EXACTLY why they cannot do it "There are cars, you might get hurt. You HAVE to hold mommy's hand and we will LOOK TOGETHER so we know when it is safe". You DO NOT make certain things an option. Ex, even if I had a child who was 8 or 9, if they started to run out into the road I would say "It is my job to protect you. You have shown me that I cannot trust you, so I will be holding your hand until you've earned that trust back". Period, end of discussion.

Kid breaks something on purpose or out of sheer carelessness that could have been avoided? Comes out of their allowance, or if they have something similar (ex, both children had flashlights, kid one broke kid two's flashlight), then they have to give that up.

Praise the good you see. Praise 10 times more than you criticize. Be the example for them. If you act rudely, ignore others, interrupt, leave things in a mess, swear (don't think they won't hear!), never eat green vegetables, only watch tv instead of reading a book, etc etc etc, how do you think your kids are going to learn to do what you want them to do?

I don't really believe in time-outs as punishment persay as much as a calm-down period so that they can understand the consequences for their actions. Most of the time, when adults intervene, children are VERY worked up, especially if it's fighting with their siblings. The purpose of time out should be to get them calm enough to be able to listen to you and understand what you are saying. If they are screaming and crying, etc, etc, because they are young and cannot process emotions very well yet, they aren't going to be helped by you smacking them and saying "We don't hit (insert name of sibling)". One thing that was taught in the daycare is the 'zen' principle of adult involvement in children's conflicts. As in let children work things out for themselves...up to a point. If they are still talking it out, DON'T intervene (but watch closely). At the other end, don't wait TOO long to intervene (ex, don't let them get too worked up). ALWAYS ask for children's help in solving things, even if they are toddlers. You'd be surprised how much a 2 year old has to offer. And don't expect that a young child who is hungry, tired, sick, incredibly bored from being stuck in a shopping cart with mom/dad not paying any attention for 45 minutes, etc is going to be in the best of moods. Many behavioural problems among children that drive parents NUTS could be prevented by earlier intervention and by avoiding triggers as much as possible. I can't tell you how many parents I've seen getting upset with a child under age 5 at the mall who is obviously exhausted and naturally not in the best of moods but is being dragged around by mom/dad in the afternoon. I'm sorry, but I really consider that poor parenting. Children that age need a nap or at least a rest in the afternoon. I should note that it generally doesn't even seem like that important of shopping (ex, not groceries or a pharmacy trip). If you are going to be a parent, to a certain extent, you will have to schedule your life differently. Parenting is a HUGE commitment, and if you aren't willing to give that commitment, well...

I agree... when I needed discipline my father wore my butt out. By no means did he abuse me,not at all,I am glad that he did what he did.It taught me the values and character that it takes to be part of a civilized community. Ive seen "TIME OUT" in practice and it doesn't work.All you are doing with "TIME OUT" is creating a bunch of spoiled brats who think they can get away with anything. Spare the rod,Spoil the child!

Spare the rod, spoil the child? Seriously?

Please see comment 1.33 above.

This is a faulty statement of causality. Perhaps it was a completely separate factor, such as a low level of compliant behavior which led to both the initial spankings and the later aggression.

To be genuinely scientific about such a study, the kids and parents would need to be randomly assigned to one group or the other, spanking or non-spanking, then employ the disciplinary measure as directed per which group, and check behaviors 5 years later. That was not done in this case. All the present methodology can do is provide a correlation between the two. It cannot show cause. And correlation can be caused by external factors, as I mentioned previously.

hmdicowii...."So to avoid having to do the hard work, parents are attempting to make themselves appear to be good parents by not using physical punishment"

I can just as easily make the argument that there are many ways to discipline a child so that one does not have to resort to physical punishment. But many parents avoid the hard work of doing so, as it's much easier to spank them and be done with it.

Also, "I'm of the opinion that the old maxim applies: Spare the rod, spoil the child." For the correct interpretation of the maxim, please see comment 1.33 above. But don't feel bad, many have misinterpreted that scripture for a long time.

I do. Stop using cover words for what you are really doing: hitting! And it's always wrong to hit another person, regardless of age or whether you are the parent.

Parents who want to continue abusing (hitting) their kids will re-define any behavior to suit their skewed thinking. You cannot be a good parent if you hit (spank, swat, slap) your children.

Discipline is from the word "disciple," which means follower and student of a mentor, teacher, or other wise figure. Be the role model you want your child to emulate instead of hitting them to teach them that violence wins.

"You cannot be a good parent if you hit (spank, swat, slap) your children."

Are you saying my parents were bad parents because I was spanked? Are you saying that EVERY parent that has ever hit their child is a bad parent?

How about not making gereralizations you can't back up? My parents were good parents even when I was spanked.

The timeout applied resulted in the kids cranking up their stereos to maximum volume and locking their bedroom doors.

Wow. That would have earned me about three dozen swats with a belt, no electrical power in the room for a week, and a confiscated stereo. Its insane what kids get away with these days.

I so would have cut the power to that part of the house.

STH... It's insane what parents allow their kids to get away with these days. You thinking spanking would stop kids from behaving like that? It wouldn't. No, parents create that by not being consistent with punishment or by being pushovers. Actually, they've created a pattern early on by being lazy and giving their child whatever he/she wants just to shut him up at the moment. You pay for that in the long run. With loud stereos and locked doors.

Kat, I absolutely guarantee these kids wouldn't have done it again if my father had worn their butts out with his belt.

cut the fuse to that room and remove the doorknob/lock

STH, well, that's just downright abuse if you ask me.

STH...my dad was 6'2" and weighed 225 without a pound of fat. When he got finished with the belt, my backside was sore for a week. Then I got the complimentary, I did it because I love, It hurt me more than you BS...blah...blah...blah.

The primary lesson I learned was to do everything possible not to get caught when I was up to something not approved of by my parents.

The single most influential lesson I learned in life came from my Grandfather, who said, "A man is someone who stands up for what it right and does his best to do what is right."

You couldn't teach that lesson with a belt in a million years.

Are you kidding me? that may apply to beating your children silly, but a little slap on the butt does not lead to such effects. i was spanked when i was a little kid, i think what it taught me was to really not disrespect my parents. we have a really loving healthy relationship and i honestly think i would be such a brat if they just chose to discipline me otherwise. I have never in my life been physically agressive, im not scarred for life by it at all. If you ever met me, you would probably say im very respectful and responsible for a16 year old. I have seen parents who try to discipline kids with time outs, and so many of them have no respect for their parents. They will literally do anything regardless of what their parents say.

So yes, there is a point when spanking is wrong. It is not a way to get out your anger, and its not ok to just hit your kids with your best shot and hope they get the message. talking through issues is effective in most circumstances but there are times when mild spanking is appropriate.