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KCNA / EPA
News of the North Korean leader's death sparks tears from his followers and concerns around the world as power is handed over to his successor.
The images of North Koreans frantically weeping and wailing during Wednesday's funeral procession for Kim Jong Il may seem forced and fabricated to Americans who viewed the former leader as a dangerous despot.
But experts say that the scenes we’re seeing on TV aren’t necesarily out of the ordinary or over the top for North Koreans in grief. And they may even be the honest expressions of a nation not knowing how to go on once their cult-like leader dies.
“This is a society that is organized around a mass cult-like devotion to the leader,” said Mike Chinoy, a senior fellow at the U.S. China Institute at the University of Southern California and author of “Meltdown: The Inside Story of the North Korean Nuclear Crisis.” “When you have the death of a figure that you spent your whole life worshipping you’re going to feel fear and uncertainty and anxiety about what will happen next.”
You can get a window on the people’s mind-set by listening to the words of the song that was often heard in the streets of North Korea and always played when Kim Jong-Il appeared in public, said Chinoy.
“It was called the ‘Song of General Kim Jong Il,” Chinoy said. “It’s a really catchy tune and you would hear it like 10 times a day. When he appeared in public, they would always play the lines: ‘Without you there is no country. Without you there is no us.’
“If that’s what you’ve been taught – or brainwashed – to believe your whole life and suddenly you are without that leader, you’re going to think, ‘What are we going to do now?’”
But it’s also possible some may be feigning distress since it’s expected – and they may fear retribution if they don’t, some say.
When Kim Il Sung, the father of Kim Jong Il, died in 1994, some were punished for not seeming grief stricken enough, defectors from North Korea told Barbara Demick of the Los Angeles Times.
Still, many mourning Kim Jong Il are likely showing the standard signs of grief in Korea, Chinoy said.
“If you’ve ever been to a traditional Korean funeral in South Korea, you’d have seen tremendous weeping and wailing,” Chinoy said. “They are an emotional people who wear their emotions on their sleeves.”
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You could actually look at it as both.
It seems real to the people crying because they've been conditioned or forced to feel that way.
As a lot of the civilians looked well dressed, it could be real. They realize they are losing their current station in the overall structure and may not have that same station under Kim Sung Un.
This article suggests the people are " weeping and wailing " but I've seen many clips and virtually no weeping, no tears at all. This display is not genuine sadness and grief. It's obvious these people are putting on a show to protect themselves from retaliation by the government for evincing insufficient despair at the loss of the great leader. What these scenes are providing is a glimpse at the face of totalitarianism and it's really astonishing to see it with your own eyes. The true sadness of this situation comes from how genuinely sad the people must feel having to live in a society without freedom.
Hmmm... The crowds of mourners 10 people deep at the street curb, all of them crying, wailing and flailing, but, just 100 feet behind them bigger crowds of people being completely silent and not moving at all. Kinda makes on wonder about what was happening - eh?
The government pays people to do that. The more convincing they are, the more they get.
The grief is about as real as Stalin received when he died. Stalin's death count numbered in excess of twenty million Russians and this number does not count those killed in the War. I'm sure the grief expressed at his funeral was more in the nature of relief than grief. Man is deft at showing relief disguised as grief. We don't know how many North Koreans have starved to death or died otherwise under this man, and they still have the yolk of his son upon their backs, better to fake grief in this case than show any kind of relief until they find out which way the wind is blowing.
The most pathetic attempt of faked grief I have ever seen.
so... bomb them now? or after iran?
obviously a Republican.....you guys love you killing!
Well, Slow Boy, at least you got your nickname for a reason.
Slow Boy --- You must be confused. Obama has been president for years now and he has not only continued killing in Iraq and Afghanistan but engaged in more of it in Libya. He had the power to stop this killing at any time as the commander and chief but he chose to continue it.
Shouldn't this be a clue to you as to who really loves killing? He's a Democrat, right?
Despite gary-309869 missing the same boat that left slow boy behind, yes, yes we should bomb them. It cheers up the local populace, and the fact that North Korean infrastructure sucks so bad already means we don't have to feel bad about being to cheap to rebuild it afterwards.
I'm going to say we should have gone one step further and bombed the funeral. And I'm not a Republican. We could have gotten Kim Jong Un and pretty much all of DPRK's subordinate leaders in one fell swoop. A crappy thing to do that would pretty much ensure that we would garner the world's scorn, but it would certainly have taken care of the problem.
Finally, someone who gets it. Thanks for the sarcasm.
The hate for all things N. Korean is palpable in this story and particularly in the comments section.
Talk about social opinion engineering. N. Korea seems to have won over Iran and China today as the country and people to hate en mass.
"Are they sincere? Are they real tears? Are they just big fakers?"
Why not just skip the charade and just blaze a headline, "We hate you N. Koreans!"
Would be much simpler and honest.
Now...back to China and or Iran. Long live national hate propaganda!
It is likely cry or die for them. If you aren't expressing "grief" for Dear Derpity Derp then you likely get thrown in prison for dissent.
Glad to know there's another South Park viewer, Mr. Derpity Derp.
While it's true that the people of North Korea might be anxious over the death of Kim Jong Il and the succession of his son who seems completely unprepared to run the country, it is hard to believe that people who were starved and imprisoned for dissent are sincerely mourning the loss of a despot.
You'd be surprised. You're underestimating the power of a despotic regime, coupled with complete isolation from the outside world. There were Russians who were grief-stricken when Stalin died.
There still are.
I read the East European press. They know about these things! The general reaction has been, "yeah, yeah, and you saw people doing the crying shtick when Stalin or Gheorgiu Dej (the first communist dictator in Romania) died". People are crying because they are ordered to, especially the ones near the cameras. The standard of living in the world's most repressive police state shouldn't leave people that upset that "Dear Leader" has died!
The "mourners" all look well fed, though we know there is a famine there. I'm sure they're actors.
Or they got an increase in their food rations.
With the death, they are losing their rations.
Got no right to accuse these people of being brain washed when 80% of Americans worship some dead guy on a stick....talk about brain washed!
Not a good analogy, but I agree that at least half of our country is caught up in the dogma and mythology of religion (a lot of people actually believe the earth is only 6000 years old lol) and to boot they are hypocrites, any public acts of kindness to those less fortunate to these "good Christians" are decried as socialism and big government.
Slow Boy - Having a belief in something other than yourself and trying to follow a set of principals upon which this nation was founded is NOT being brain-washed. However, expressing utterly moronic comments such as yours might be indicative of being Brain-Dead!
You're so right George. How dare these so called Christians deny anything to anyone who wants them. If they are compassionate, they will give anyone anything they want. FREEBIES for ALL. Hip,Hip, Hoorah!!!!! If you don't believe in unlimited entitlements, you're not a kind person.
Slow Boy and George B ----- Try reading the article again. It's not about Christianity. Read it closely. It's about North Korea , its dead despot , and the reaction of the people. Focus , you can stay on point if you try very hard.
Perfectly said. Whats so different about NK and the deluded Christians, not much. And don't tell me that this country was founded on Christian junk. Go read the constitution and how many times is Christianity mentioned or God mentioned ? The founding fathers were intelligent enough to have the Church and State seperated, as they knew religion poisons everything. What happens when an equivalant religious institution runs a country, it ends up like North Korea, just replace the zombie Jeebus with a petty Kim guy and boom you end up like a pathetic excuse of a country.
Your comparison is hilarious if not sad. The 'man on the stick' never starved to death 3 million people. He never formed concentration camps to hold those who disagreed with him. I must say though, your name fits your cerebral abilities.
No bobbyd-4570854 he did not... But many of his followers have. Religion(all of them) is the biggest killer on earth. But this branch is a bit out on this thread.
Nope. Wrong. False.
This nation was founded on the ...Constitution... look it up.
And, btw, most of the founding fathers were not Christian either, they were deists.
Stop spreading Faux "News" lies please.
Ah the wonders of dictatorial brainwashing. the man killed 4 million of his own people thru starvation and other acts of terror, and here they all are balling their eyes out. Its amazing what fear can do to people.
I think the word you're looking for is 'bawling'--"balling" has an entirely different meaning, although the facial expressions are often the same.
It's 1984 In Real Life..
When your glorious leader in North Korea dies. You cry or else.
Maybe they plan on serving Purple Kool-aid at his wake...
It's all baloney.
Can anybody actually look at the throngs of "crying faces with no tears" and believe that BS is REAL. I mean, come on. Oh, forgot that scene where hundreds show to "grieve" and all happen to show up with the exact same white flower, and stand in perfect rows. Or the video showin' lil school kids probably no older than 8 cryin' their lil eyes out too, like they'd just been spanked, but not a single tear! lol That's not even good high school drama class lmao
"Look sad or you will be worked to death in one of our labor camps. Just imagine what that would be like if you need motivation to cry" Yeah, I'd cry like a baby too. What a ****-hole of a country thanks to the monsters in charge.
WHO cares let them cry themselves to sleep and then we won't have to care what they do to themselves or better yet bring on the kool-aid. If they carry on this way which they do thru out the Far East, then they would drink the kool-aid and then the starvation of millions would be decreased by millions. Then the other half can figure how to carry on. Who cares what the other countries do as long as we are not supporting their sorry back-sides. Starve or figure it out before its too late. They have lived this way for so long they aren't going to change so don't worry yourself over them, thats what they want is a hand-out. I'm sick of the hand-outs there and all over the world and especially here in America. Work or starve. Period
Nice. And I bet you are a "good Christian" that goes to church every Sunday lol.
Work or starve period !!! Unless of course it’s YOU that’s starving. I’ll never understand the ‘conservative’ mind or maybe I don’t care to.
Love the comapssion for fellow man...
the mourners = worst case of bad acting I have ever seen. Obviously...mourn or die, not the best options to choose from. Even in a "hermit" society humans cannot be that blind.
How stupid us americans are to think that we can look at a picture and tell these people they are not grieving....america get over yourself just maybe these people really liked the way they live... are we really any better???? our government tells us that what to believe and we just fall in behind them.... how stupid is that or does it sound familar???? when will we start minding our own business?? the man is dead let the people do what they want is it really our business to say they are faking? again america get over yourself...one question has any of you cried intill you can't cry anymore? when my mom died i cried for days and still grieve for her but i have no tears does that make me a fake??? again get over yourselfs
Huh? You cried but have no tears? Drugs are bad ... mmkay?
Well Larry, there is a difference in real grief one feels from a valued loved one dieing as opposed to the fear of not grieving and having your life deteriorate into complete despair as you are targeted as one of the non-loyal citizens. Most of you need to remember what kind of Country North Korea is. The majority of the population is either starving or in the military, while Kim Song drove around in 100K cars and collected Michael Jordan memorabilia!!
Wow, that must have been some huge and high quality load you just sucked out of that bong. Medical grade stuff? Looks that way to me.
I wouldn't go so far with 'forced' as much as 'afraid of force.'
Ofcourse this is forced and expected. Show up there and have no tears in your eyes. You will be turned in by your friends and / or neighbors so they can get extra food rations. Lets see haw many are truly grief-stricken. Open the North Korean borders and see how many pack their bags and run sprinting to the Exit sign!!!
I wonder if the "experts" have ever been to either of the two Koreas. In South Korean culture, which is not very much different from that of the north with regard to the way that people express themselves when grieving or expressing regret, what we would perceive as a person who appears to be overwhelmed with grief is often a person who is not overwhelmed but who expresses that grief in ways that are socially expected. In some cultures there are professional grievers, people who express in stylized ways the sorrow of others. Wailing women of the Mid East are an example of this.
Recently, there has been much made of the conjecture that those who do not lament the death of North Korea's late leader run the risk of imprisonment or other adversities. I don't think that is the case, nor do I think that the North Korean people as a whole are so bereaved that they are inconsolable. A large part of their public displays of sorrow are what one would see if, for instance, a husband and a wife had an argument and the spouse at fault were to humble him or her self before the other.
The lack of understanding of the long and venerable traditions of both Koreas can lead to some remarkably bad conclusions about the intentions of their people. Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese people are not just Westerners with dark hair and different dietary habits. They are shaped by their traditions, both intellectually and behaviorally.
"Despair over Kim Jong Il: Real grief or forced?" If you even have to ask that question, you're part of the problem. I suppose there were a few people who benefitted greatly from his regime who will lose power, money and prestige from his death. They might be shedding tears. There are probably others who feel that as bad as the communist dictatorship was under the rule of Kim Jong Il, that conditions are only going to get even worse now. But the vast majority of North Koreans suffered oppression and economic hardship under Kim Jong Il. And when the cameras aren't aimed at them I'm certain they're smiling.
I call bullsh!t.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. By this point, it's the same. The people of North Korea have lived their lives in such great fear for so long that they've been entirely conditioned to give the proper response to the regime. I'm sure many of them are inwardly smiling, though.
i can't believe anyone would morn that monster, except all the suckbutts that made a living off him, or even miss him! his son will be worse than him. s. korea should hit them now. korea should be reunited under s. korea rule. i say hit em now!
Mass hysteria is often present when cult leaders such as Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, and Kim Jong Il die, and no country has the depth of individual control and psychological conditioning from birth as North Korea. The type of hystrionics that we are seeing are real for the most part, but another important causal factor other the death of Kim Il Sung is a life-time of knowing that if they do NOT mourn correctly, talk correctly, act correctly, and think correctly as defined by their political leaders THEY will disappear. That is why the whole country is acting out. If they don't their own kids will turn them in.
Claudius is Dead, Long live Nero.