By Natalie Wolchover
LiveScience
Louisiana's state health department has issued a warning about the dangers of improperly using nasal-irrigation devices called neti pots, responding to two recent deaths in the state that are thought to have resulted from "brain-eating amoebas" entering people's brains through their sinuses while they were using the devices.
Both victims are believed to have filled their neti pots with tap water instead of manufacturer-recommended distilled or sterilized water. When they used these pots to force the water up their noses and flush out their sinus cavities — a treatment for colds and hay fever — a deadly amoeba living in the tap water, called Naegleria fowleri, worked its way from their sinuses into their brains. The parasitic organism infected the victims' brains with a neurological disease called primary amoebic meningoencephalitis (PAME), which rapidly destroys neural tissue and typically kills sufferers in a matter of days.
Jonathan Yoder, an epidemiologist with the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), said the Louisiana cases are still being investigated to ascertain that the deaths did indeed result from exposure to treated tap water in neti pots, rather than exposure to untreated water in a pond or lake. If so, they are the first known incidences of the disease in the U.S. resulting from N. fowleri organisms surviving the water treatment process.
"Nearly all the cases have resulted from exposure to warm recreational water, such as ponds, rivers and lakes, and the kind of exposure where the water would be forced up the nose — for example, diving and water sports," Yoder told Life's Little Mysteries, a sister site to LiveScience. The amoeba thrives in natural waterholes, especially those in the South, and several Americans die every year from swimming in these waterholes, or using untreated water from them. However, "in the last 15 years, I'm not aware of other cases [in the U.S.] associated with treated drinking water," he said.
Municipal water undergoes a rigorous purification process to make it potable, including being treated with chlorine to kill microorganisms, he explained. "We consider chlorination to be effective in killing [N. fowleri]. I can't comment on any water system in Louisiana, but in general … you may start out with 1 million amoebas and your goal is to reduce it with chlorine, and you might get 99.9 percent out. But you're probably never going to eliminate 100 percent. That goes for amoebas, parasites, bacteria, viruses. So while we say our drinking water is safe, it's not sterile." [Can Your Tap Water Kill You?]
N. fowleri only seems capable of reaching the brain if it's given a big boost by being squirted deep into a person's nasal passages. That's why water that is considered safe to drink or bathe in isn't necessarily safe to use in a neti pot, Yoder said.
But if you only use distilled or previously boiled water in your neti pot, and you avoid snorting water when diving into waterholes, can you be sure you won't get PAME simply by splashing your face with the water out of your faucet — especially if you live in Louisiana?
Yoder said the CDC maintains that the risk of getting PAME from normal exposure to tap water is very low, but they are helping Louisiana's health department investigate the water treatment process in the state. "In general, what we're committed to is even though there are very few cases, CDC is very committed to learning more about the organism so we can prevent further infection by developing science-based prevention methods. But it is a very tragic infection and we're very sad for the families."
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They left out the fact that It's not the neti pot that killed them, it was living in Louisiana.
It was not even that, "it was living in Louisiana".
It is the current situation.
I would highly recommend that everyone take the online free Courses offered by USAMRIID, that are even taken by the CDC to remain current on Epidemiology. And if possible take a College pre Med School Microbiology Course with the Laboratory. This is NOT to make you ultra paranoid, this is to make you aware of the potential risks and how to minimize the risks.
First off, there is Fracking, the use of toxic chemicals to hydraulically crack the expired Oil Wells to extract Natural Gas. These toxic chemical have contaminated most of the underground drinking water sources.
Second, the ocular means of becoming infected by something is greater than thru the sinus cavity. This is why during the "Cold War" to treat a "Blood Agent" you would smear the antidote just under your eyes (not in your eyes), and not spray something up your nose.
Third, the use of large amounts of antibiotics, that kills most but not all of the "Bugs". Being simple not complex organisms, the survivors can evolve quicker than complex organisms, this is how antibiotic resistant "Super Bugs" are created. This does include the use of many anti biotic soaps that will also kill those "Bugs" that are actually beneficial by killing the potentially pathogenic "Bugs" or by population (including producing toxins that kill the pathogenic "Bugs") prevent the growth of the pathogenic "Bugs".
Fourth, the dumping of expired antibiotics thru the least expensive means, the toilets.
Fifth, the human waste from number four above, toilets, is being recycled and used as fertilizer (shown on a episode of Undercover Boss). This human waste also being mixed in with the dumped antibiotics, creates even more antibiotic resistant "Bugs". The idea that some of these new generations of "Bugs" cannot be absorbed into fruits and vegetables is false, and therefore cannot be "washed off" (bleach water) or "cooked out" (165 degrees Fahrenheitfor 10 minutes). By the way the term "Bugs" is the old school term used by old school Epidemiologists trained by USAMRIID (like me) with "Bugs" being bacteria, viruses, etc. until positively identified.
In something like a College Pre Med School Course with Laboratory, you will learn that UV Light (Sunlight) causes many "Bugs" to mutate (a form of cancer just like human skin cancer) and die. Unfortunately, this is only on surface contamination (populations), so in the case of the "Slump Ponds" of human waste on the episode of Undercover Boss this UV exposure does not kill the underlying "Bugs" just below the surface.
The psychology of "Looks" versus risks, is also prevalent at the US, as using Cold Water to wash clothes as not to degrade the fabric dyes "Looks" of clothes is more important than exposing the largest organ of the human body, skin, to potential pathogenic organisms. There is also the use of Clothes Dyers instead of exposing clothing to Sun Light, a natural source of UV Radiation, as convenience instead of inconvenience (time factor) as well as "Fading" the clothing. The strange thing about this, is maybe our ancestors knew things we (Modern Society) never considered, like the use of Lye Soaps and boiling water to wash clothes, the Lye soap changes the pH levels so much to kill most "Bugs", the boiling water kills the surviving "Bugs", unfortunately your clothes look like sh!t afterwards and do not last very long.
Sixth, compounding the problem are the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens at the US that currently work in the US Food Chain, from Harvesting, Processing, Distribution, even Food Preparation and Serving it to you (it only takes one screw up). These Illegal Aliens are not exactly the most educated when it comes to personal hygiene, sterile procedures and sanitation. Since many of you forgot already, remember where the Mexican Flu, H1N1, came from (and if you believe that is over yet, think again. Mutations of strains.). The movie, Contagion, as assisted with technical support for accuracy by the CDC is an example.
The really scary thing is that many have time bombs in their freezers, as dormant "Bugs" in the form of frozen meats, vegetables, fruits, juices, etc..
Seventh, there is also the very old, 1970s, one of the first computer simulations, "Hammurabi", as far as populations, food, disasters, etc.. Population increases, food supplies (grain), etc. and the decisions that you as Hammurabi make that would minimize the numbers of the population that would die. There is also the "Rat Population Study" (Rats population would increase based on available food, till the population increased beyond the limitations of the available food, then the Rats would start killing each other until the balance was reestablished. After that generation of survivors died off the next generation would repeat the same mistakes of overpopulation, starvation, cannibalism, and killing to reestablish the balance.).
Eight, Risk Analysis. The cost factor versus the possibility of something like this happening, as some bureaucrat (College degree Business Major) makes the decisions, as influenced by some Lawyer turned into a Professional Career Politician (trained to win their argumentsby any means, "Error of Omission" (lies), facts as irrelevant, etc.). example: Government using Taxpayer money to hire entire Legal Firms to minimize the effects of their bad decisions thru "Out of Court Settlements" (those that really want to know, instead of branding people "Conspiracy Theorists", "Wearing a Tin Foil Hat", etc. would just research these as a matter of Public Court Records (document who, what, where, when, why, how, how much, etc.) of what I listed as First thru Eight).
Just some observations, experience, and my research. Of course some of this I ignored myself, as to how most of us during our first year here (Afghanistan) ended up with fatal (if not treated properly) anti biotic resistant Amoebic Dysentery (as credit where credit is due, it was the Afghan villagers that cured us with some sort of wild plant similar to a very strong black garlic (almost toxic), not our broad spectrum anti biotics). We were even using (not available to the public) anti microbial filters for our water, as mentioned at the "Fifth" above, the source was actually from the local foods (absorbed into the fruits and vegetables) that we ate from living with the Afghan villagers. With these "Bugs" even after being throughly cooked (boiled in Afghan cooking oil) turning into "seeds" to survive, and "sprouting" under ideal conditions.
Oh, yes, I forgot to add the rubber squeeze bottles used on babies noses and ears by mothers.
My researched solution to all of this is simple, four stage filters on house taps and baths. And for all foods (including drinking water) as used successfully for years (decades) by the Europeans, Irradiation. Before you disagree, Sunlight is natural UV Irradiation, Microwave Ovens are Irradiation, etc.. Go study Nuclear Medicine, Nuclear Physics, Electronics (Wave Lengths) before assuming something (example: the arguement stated by another Newsvine Poster debunked by the Cordon Bleu (blind taste tests that indicated that the irradiated foods tasted better as harvested near ripe versus the foods harvested long before ripe (as required for non irradiated foods).), about irradiation degrading "taste" of irradiated foods. And the very common (Uneducated) concept that Irradiated foods remain "Radioactive" after Irradiation.).
Brilliant statement.
Yes, way too brilliant for newsvine. No worries, the double digits are not up yet to destroy it's truth with their trolls.
I have used Neti pots for years. They are brilliant for colds and hay fever. It appears as if a more accurate statement would be that the drinking water is SO bad in Louisiana that you run the risk of contracting, as the article so eloquently put it " brain eating amoebae".
@David, there is an old saying "A kid has to eat a pound of dirt before he grows". The meaning is that if you isolate yourself from your environment in the ways you suggest, you actually compromise your immune system by not exposing yourself to common pathogens. Some of your other "facts" are inaccurate as well. My advice is relax and live; we all die someday so don't sweat it. You might be happier and healthier.
The drinking water is fine where I live and anyway, I used sterilized water and sterilized the pot as well. I used neti pots for colds and hay fever on the advice of a family member. I thought the relief wonderful but began, for the first time in my life, suffering severe sinus infections associated with the times I used it. Maybe good for some but not me. Would suggest extreme caution regardless. I'll use tissues and breathe-right strips thank you.
See you've received an overdose of ignorance.
solarpower LMFAO Too Funny!!!!! I'm FL born and raised all over (Navy brat). I know ,who gives a sht and? The coolest and most fun place I ever lived was Alameda, CA!!!!!!!!! I have family that there so trust me when I say the places truly SUCKS!!!!!! Hell, FL sucks too. They brag about negative crap like one time I saw a sign they had (maybe still do) posted about how they had the most traffic deaths in the nation at the time. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself but it was worded in such a way like they were proud that they were number one in something. It seems like the entire state has a hugely massive self esteem problem.
I know that the first comment I read would be from some jackass denigrating the south.
So what is the answer to our problems David? Other than education, how do you stop all that you say we stop?
1. Walk to work so we don't frack anything.
2. Clear your sinus through your eyes?
3. If you have a "bug", don't treat it.
4. Don't crap in a toilet after taking meds. (Doctor says take it all)
5. Use Artifical fertilizers to grow food. Ie. Oil based? No fracking way!
6. Close the border and kill all that don't belong.
7. Kill and eat the overpopulated people on the planet.
8. Pay some politicians off.??
So you are saying:
We should all walk to a University to study naked in the sunshine and never fornicate without protection again while killing our neighbors for breakfast and never go to a doctor for meds. It actually sounds plausible. Man, it sounds like the 60s!!
Nice job David. Very informative. We can all figure your a bright guy, just by a post like this, that truly adds something to the information...no other statement, about your smarts, is needed. I learned a lot from reading it.
One comment about irradiation, the potential downside is that we don't know what is destroyed in the process. In other words, we may also be losing some essential vitamins and minerals.
David - Fracking has not contaminated most ground water.
That's an ignorant statement.
It has contaminated a few drinking ground water areas when it was not properly done. The Fracturing happens far below the water supply. The water at those levels is undrinkable anyway - usually due to salt.
They can have fluid come up the sides of the well bore when they pressurize for the fracturing. That's simply poor installation, but poor installation of furnaces can easily kill you - and we still put in furnaces into our houses.
There is extensive testing around the wells that use fracking. Only one case has been documented by the EPA of groundwater contamination.
I know of several more reports in the media - and with all the wells in the nation, I would expect some failure rate. The technology, although over 100 years old - is still improving.
Of course, the risk of contaminated water from it is very low. We are talking about a few people in the entire US being effected. Or, the same number that will die in car crashes in a few hours in the US.
And no one has died or been injured from fracking yet (outside of the rig workers or drivers of supply vehicles [in vehicle accidents]). You will get some kind of warning with a chemical smell in the water.
There is no perfectly safe thing in the world. Even sterile water can kill you if you drink too much, too fast.
But making statements like: "First off, there is Fracking, the use of toxic chemicals to hydraulically crack the expired Oil Wells to extract Natural Gas. These toxic chemical have contaminated most of the underground drinking water sources."
Is either a sign of ignorance or a political agenda (which can be the same thing, typically in the left).
@david-475776
Fracking has contaminated MOST underground drinking water sources? You might have better luck getting people to read your long winded rant if you didn't start out with BS.
@Richard H. Pratt
With all due respect Richard, hearing something from an anonymous person on the Internet without bothering to independently verify what that person said is a horrible way to "learn" anything.
Thank you. I too saw this headline on yahoo yesterday and called it for what it is, bull crap. If you had been following stories. I believe it is the third death this year from that bacteria. A believe a young man went fishing and somehow got it, and I believe a young lady swimming somewhere got it (she was in high school) and a young boy was swimming somewhere got the same disease. They both died. They should really tell the truth on this.
redscorpio55, Let them denigrate the south all they want while they freeze their butts off up north and in most other areas of the country and look forward to nothing but cold, cloudy, windy miserable weather for months to come. We're in the right place, baby.
Ryan, please don't broadcast the fact that you are from Texas. The nation has already experienced the ignorance, arrogance and degredation of Bush and Perry. As someone who spent most of their life there, I just wish it were possible to have a few people outside the state realize that living there or being from there does not require a below average IQ or compulsory brain washing by the oil and gas industry. Drive out on the barrier island and take a look at all the barren concrete slabs that used to be "Hurricane Proof" houses. Yes, it is impossible for those 400,000 gallons of toxic chemicals pumped under enough pressure to fracture rock (frack) to ever escape and contaminate our drinking water! Please.....
a Sojourner here -
Your reading skills are so bad, no wonder you can't be a Texan. You obviously are better off in a state where the Gov't does your thinking for you.
At no point did anyone say that fracking water cannot escape if the fracking is done improperly - just that by all reports, this has only happened a few times in the US.
And as I mentioned in my earlier post, your home furnance can be improperly installed, fill the house with carbon monoxide and kill people. A few people every year die from CO from furnaces in the US. We still have furrnaces.
And I have heard of no reports of injury from the Fracking Fluids escaping.
That is the sort of thing that makes front page news in the left leaning media.
Unlike this amoeba, you get a warning of contamination simply from the smell of the water.
As for Hurricane proof houses, you are wrong again. No house ever claimed to be hurricane proof. An 18 foot storm surge is a massive amount of force on a structure.
However, you can google Bolivar Ike sole survivor house or go to http://streetknowledge.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/miracle-home-survives-the-ravashing-of-hurricane-ike/
It was no miracle. Only one house survived among thousands. It was very well built. They used heavy screws and bolts, instead of nails. They also built the foundation far thicker than everyone else. When you see the picture of all the destruction, and that one house untouched - you know they built it to last. My understanding is that it only cost twice as much as a standard house, but the guy who built it had some problems because builders don't know how to build that way. (And technically, you could build a standard home and then another new one if the original got destroyed for the same price. Typically, you have 25-50+ years around here between storms like Ike. You coould get 100 or more years out of two homes.)
You know if we sterilize the Earth we wont have to worry about getting sick--ever!
I know it's a lot harder to do than simply learning to use sterile water in neti pots but there just isn't enough nifty science involved in using neti pots correctly. What would we argue about then?
CatWhispererPhD - Irradiation can't "kill" vitamins and minerals as you ask. Vitamins and minerals are not living things to be killed.
This Neti pot cleansing has been used for centuries in INDIA....pretty sure most of that time was without chlorination, if even now...wonder what the death by amoeba rate is there.......hmmmmm, and they still use it......
backman2011 - Life expectancy - US (avg 78.7 years) - India (avg 64.7 years). That's not to say that neti pots are related to this number in any way. But what is does say is that using India as an example of a country to model a health practice on is probably not doing a lot to support your argument.
That's like saying...Oh...they have been cleaning out each others ears on the streets with little sticks for centuries therefore that must be the best way to clean out your ears.
david-475776 Great points, but you missed one, one that i think is the most misunderstood and hence misused, Condoms.
Ho many know that it is technically a " medical waste " and hence should be treated as such, How many are aware that the contents in it as deadly, and hence the plastic acts as an incubator, and hence keeps the " deadly " materials active for days and even weeks, and hence any one and anything that comes in contact with them is now to be deemed a " Carrier" where is the advice on how to get rid of them, and on that point they are next to useless to stop the spread of ANY infections, as the term is " body fluids" and a condoms does not even stop " some of the body fluids" when did a condom stop the contents infecting someone on removal? on contamination of bedding materials? and as you mentrioned about Eyes and Nose, being the most problematic in infections, saliva .
This may help: Under federal mandates signed by President Clinton in 2000,
http://www.aegis.org/channel/s/AD032660.html CDC was to have issued a report on the best HPV prevention strategies by Dec. 21. Separately, FDA http://www.fda.gov/ was to re-evaluate condom labels to ensure that they are "medically accurate" concerning their efficacy in preventing disease, including HPV. Neither agency has complied, said Souder. New adress they cannot hide, http://www.aegis.org/news/ads/2003/ad032660.html
lso comes to mind.
I'd be willing to bet that a REAL, and honest investigation would show that a number of cities are skimping on the chlorine to save money, and exposing thier people to greater risk.
no ...believe it or not most water operation will use more than enough to kill bacteria...due to chlorine dissipation...water operators actually try to keep the public healthy and safe from bad water...
I lived in Yorkville Illinois for about five months. The water out of the tap smelled and tasted like a swimming pool. Had to use the river to water my plants or they died. Glad I GTFO of there.
There is no doubt that the state or county, everywhere, over hypes how well they treat their water. Here in Vegas, we have frogs showing up in lake Mead with a few legs to many. Hmmmm...old rocket fuel and not so ancient nuclear testing? The other poster..RED PLANET had me chuckling about Alameda CA...or yeah! The whole place has a stink from the brown water from the bay area. Hayward, nearby had a freeway that killed hundreds of people, which is near Oaklandthat holds some of the angriest people on earth. Great place! You have to go north in CA. to get to the good places, like around Napa and Calistoga...the water?? who knows since they all lie like rugs about how great their tap water is.
There is nothing wrong with using the neti pot system to irrigate the sinus cavity. The problem is that these unfortunate people did not follow the directions. The instructions say to use distilled water, NOT tap water. There is a reason that directions for use are included in OTC medications. This is a very sad yet preventable situation.
Richard H. Pratt - Way to drag up an old already solved exaggerated fear. The deformities in the frogs and toads was found to be related to a natural reason...dragonfly nymphs were found to be the cause. Read up on it on BBC.com. Be sure to read the whole article where it explains missing limbs and how extra limbs also form this way.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8116000/8116692.stm
Also, notice the date on this article is over two years old.
You don't force the water up your nose with a neti pot. You pour it in one nostril and it flows out the other.
With the saline rinse squeeze bottles you can force it up your nose. Those are the ones I use because it's easier to clear stuff at the back of the throat.
i gree. Forcing water up yer nose-holes ...( isn't that WaterBoarding?) ...Cannot be healthy for you.
I used the NetiPot with sea salt saline for about 6 months daily ending about a year ago, and, along with aerobic exercise and drinking more filtered water than sodas, was finally was able to get my bad post-nasal drip under control. Always felt immediate relief for 30 minutes after NetiPotting without needing to blow my nose with a tissue.
People, if you are going to use a NetiPot, do it the RIGHT WAY and with the correct ingredients, and do not get cheap about buying the right items to do the job. With the right saline temperature range, NetiPotting is very soothing; like taking a nice warm comforting bath. Forcing amoebas up the brain is insane in the membrane.
Wondering if this story was planted by a bottled water company...
You mean the people that make money by putting tap water into plastic bottles?
Do all of you actually know what saline solution is? And the difference between "Sea Salt" and "Iodized Salt" is? Go read the warning label on the various Morton Sea Salt Labels.
add to post#3.4.
Since most of you are too lazy to do the research for your own benefit.
On the Morton Salt Label for Sea Salts:
"THIS SALT DOES NOT SUPPLY IODIDE. A NECESSARY NUTRIENT".
Hint: Iodide is used to prevent thyroid cancer.
when it rains it pours...dang...good logo..
forcing water up the brain is insane in the membrane....Good one! People that say the tap water is good, and a brain eating amoeba survives in it!?? Are very mistaken! This would have to be one virulent little bug to work its way past the sinuses, then through the various passages that lead to the brain. Being small, it can travel via the blood vessels. When life is taken by other life, like cancer or an amoeba, its much scarier than say by a freak accident. I used Neti Pots in the past, to clean the sinuses, and it was a soothing experience, but I only used water that had been boiled, then the correct amount of salt, and used in a pouring way, not by force. Something is seriously wrong with this persons death. I hope they comb the water treatment plant, or her very own environment to find the real cause, the source of this amoeba. If you have ever been to India, you know that it is not a clean place. Yet using Neti pots is pretty common there, and very few people are dying from it, as I could tell.
@david-475776 - I just wanted to add a bit to your post about salt and iodine. While you are correct that most sea salts are not iodized and that iodine is essential, I wanted to also let you know that there are plenty of manufacturers out there who *do* iodize sea salt. I use Hain Pure Foods, but there are plenty of other options out there.
This is totally off topic, but... David, iodine does not prevent thyroid cancer. Iodine is an essential element used by the thyroid to create thyroid hormone. Too little iodine can lead to a goiter, but goiters are not cancerous. Radioactive iodine is used to treat thyroid cancer because thyroid cells are the only cells in the body that absorb iodine, so they take up the radioactive variety and it fries them, thus destroying the thyroid cells and any cancer remaining after the thyroidectomy. I'm a three year thyroid cancer survivor... been there, done that. You might also be surprised how many foods actually contain significant amounts of natural iodine. Before radioactive iodine therapy, one has to go on a special diet for up to 3 weeks to eliminate as much iodine as possible so that those little thyroid cells will be starving and ready to soak up the radioactive kind quickly. There's not much on the low-iodine diet, because it is present in so many foods. Including sea salt. Sea salt is not iodised because it has naturally occurring iodine content. Rock salt has no natural iodine -- hence adding it.
Get your facts straight.
I suppose we should just ignore the warnings of the manufacturers about iodine deficiency and listen to unbiased sources of pure ideology such as yourself.
I am quite confused. I'm not sure if Watermarkon is responding to me, or someone else, but... my post is absolutely nothing about ideology -- it is what I learned about the reslationship between iodine and and the thyroid while going through thyroid cancer myself. My point was not at all that iodine is not important -- quite to the contrary, it is essential for the synthesis of thyroid hormone (for those of you who still have a thyroid), without which, we die -- but that it does not, in fact, prevent cancer. David had an incorrect understanding of what iodine's role was. As for iodised salt, I pointed out that rock salt needs to be iodised because there is no naturally occurring iodine in it. If we were to rely solely on rock salt (which we largely do as a culture), we might have problems with iodine deficiency from poor nutrition -- over reliance on processed foods and rock salt. Iodine added, that problem solved. Ceck. I'm sorry if in any way what I said came across as suggesting I was against iodising salt on any ideological basis. (That's just silly.) And I am extremely confused if it did. I was talking facts, not ideology. Iodine is important, but not for the reasons David stated. And sea salt is not iodised because it doesn't really need to be -- it is not part of some conspiracy to deprive the masses of iodine. And iodine does occur in varying amounts in natural forms in the foods we eat. I don't mean that in a new-agey sense of the word "natural," just the reality that it exists in many foods without people adding it.
If Watermarkon's comment was meant for someone else, I apologize for this post. I'm just confused and put off by the possible implication that my post was ideological in any way and wanted to clarify -- just in case.
saddened-1829725 It Happens, sometimes we misunderstand what the other is saying, this is a little like real life :-) so please do not take affront to it , you comments are welcomed.
Yeah, I'm thinking if you're forcing water up your nose, you're definitely doing it wrong.
I'm assuming you don't have any sinus problems so you probably have never used a neti pot. The feel great and they help provent sinus infections so there doing something right.
Briksquad,
Thanks for your comment,I think. Your comment,as it appears here, shows "you ain't got no brain" injury.
haha i guess i kind of messed that one up.
I'm definitely late on responding, but on the off-chance that you are still following this, you do not force water up your nose when you're using a neti pot. You pour it in and let gravity wash it through your sinuses. So yeah, I maintain that if they are forcing it up their noses, they're doing it wrong.
And yes, I've used a neti pot.
The risks & benefits of neti pots is actually the topic of today's NutritionFacts video-of-the-day (sorry that I can't post the link). Dr. Greger records and schedules those videos weeks in advance, so its coincident timing with this news story is pretty remarkable.
Love www.nutritionfacts.org :) I'm going to have to check out this video, thanks!
Anyone with an ounce of common sense does not put water up their nose. Darwin.
Actually I use an Ayr rinse to force water up my noise and out the back. It's great for clearing out post nasal drip at the back of the throat and keeps me from getting sinus infections. So no it has nothing to do with "Darwin" or "common sense".
Kamkam, thank you for sharing detailed information regarding your experiences with sinus irrigation. I heard of neti pots years ago but never actually tried it yet. Now you've added some more info on another related (and possibly better) technique, which I might try also. What's scary about this article is that I happen to live in Louisiana at the moment... Hey, this is mostly a practice that they use in India, no? I'm guessing the two people who died from this were Indian... poor fellows.
Great way to sooth a sore throat or sinuses from a cold with warm saline water.
Tera-1025454 - I used to get ear/sinus infections 3-6 times a year (every time I got sick and sometimes when I wasn't), and often got bronchitis when the infection would get into my lungs. One year, I had 9 rounds of antibiotics.
Now that I do the saline rinse every day, I have an infection once every 2-3 years and often recover without antibiotics. I can't remember when I last had bronchitis or needed antibiotics. I don't even take allergy meds anymore. It has changed my life.
I am surprised to find out that treated, chlorinated water can still contain a brain-eating amoeba. That is quite scary. What happens if you get water in your nose while in the shower, or in your ear? That's what we should be concerned about.
Don't blame the neti pot. Tap water should be tested more rigorously for dangerous organisms such as this.
Hot-in-Miami,
Read post #1.1.
Then research "Flesh Eating Bacteria" if you want to talk about "scary".
Also look at the History since 1979 of the Auto Immune Deficiency Syndrome Virus (AIDS). The 1979 article of Popular Science Magazine was very predictive.
You are correct, these ameobas are extermely senstive to chlorine. My guess is that they forgot to check all sources for warm unchlorinated water, like the neti pot itself. Standing water does not remain chlorinated for long.
None of it is good, Flesh Eating Bacteria or Brain Eating Amoeba. I have a scar that goes ear to ear across the top of of my head from a Full Frontal Obliteration. It was better than the alternative, which was spend time with your family and get things in order, you have two to three months.
You are obviously forcing water way farther up your nose while using a neti-pot than anything you encounter in standard experience. Tap water is not typically used in this manner, so trace amoebas possibly survived the process and weren't noticed because no one got the illness. With the popularity of neti pots, however, the trace amoebas were discovered. If neti pots are not the cause, then why do we have two seperate incidents stemming from neti-pot users just as soon as neti pots became popular, and no incidents stemming from any other source for the past few decades?
Not all tap water is filtered, chlorinated or tested on a regular basis--most wells are tested only when they are new, or if there is a known environmental hazard in the area. My tap water is from a private well out in our yard.
We have very cold winters here, and we have over 11,000 named "watering holes" (lakes) in my state where a person could come in contact with surface water. Is this amoeba only found in the south?
No. (Amoebic not ameoba).
Heavy metals in your "treated" water? Google hexavalent chromium. I filter all my tap water through a pressurized solid charcoal filter. Makes a big difference in water quality.
@david, the amoebas live in water above 80 deg F. They can hybernate for months at a time as well, but are only dangerous when active.
Bluelake--our water cycles through a water softener containing sodium chloride to remove iron (we used to use potassium chloride, but the price went way up). Our well is 180 feet deep, it is so dark red in color it looks black when it is pumped from the ground. It is clear and odorless after going through the softener. That is very typical for water here that is not from a public source. If we could afford it, we would install a reverse osmosis system on our kitchen tap. We drink and cook with distilled water now. Our first well was 60 feet deep, it tasted ok. Water from the new well doesn't taste as good.
We happen to have one of the most tested wells in the county. There is a closed dump (it was NOT a landfill) in the area. The water is tested before it enters the softener, no contaminants other than iron. Lawn sprinklers do not have the iron removed from the water, around here you see a lot of orange tree trunks, orange driveway stains and orange mailbox posts from where the water hits.
I live in the Chicago area and drink Lake Michigan water. Around the early 2000's British Petroleum (BP) built a plant in Indiana and it was revealed that they were dumping carcinogenic heavy metals into the lake. This was during the Bush administration when the EPA was being run by lobbyists from the Chemical industry. What federal regulations they could not remove they just ignored. After all, these picky water purity regulations hurt business and killed jobs. We couldn't have that. The Chicago Tribune ran an article with the headline " EPA asks BP to clean up dump water in Indiana plant" Not orders, ASKS! So now they are finding hexavalent chromium, a dangerous heavy metal in Chicago's drinking water. Water is the next gold or oil. We will soon be waging war over water as well as oil. It will happen. If we let the American right kill our EPA, as they propose, the quality of our water will be a huge problem, greater even than now.
There are a million things in the world that are thousands of times more likely to kill you than this. I wouldn't get hypochondric about this.
my husband uses the bottle sinus irrigation because he has extreme sinus problems so his sinus doctor(sorry, can't remember their professional name) is the one that suggested he do the irrigation. He has been doing every day for about 2 years now and he never has problems with it. From the way he explains it (which to me sounds gross so I won't do) the water comes right back out the other nostril not up nose so I'm not sure if what they are saying is accurate.
Prolly an Otolaryngologist?
What? Are you under the impression that the water has to stay there permanently or something for the infection to take hold? When people had water forced up through there nose during water sports, do you think that the water did not immediately run right back out of their nose?
I use a neti pot off and on if my sinuses bother me, or the house gets dry in winter. I can honestly say that MY neti pot does not have brain eating amoeba. These brain eating amoeba do not magically grow, like a little seed into a bean. These amoeba have to come from somewhere first, like some bacteria infested water in a lake or pond. Kind of like giardia lambia. The amoeba comes from somewhere else. Maybe put in to someone's neti pot because one is putting the little spout in one's nose. But the neti pot water does not flo in and out of someone's nose. duh. These people got this bacteria the good old fashioned way--playing in infected water.
Those fiendishly clever Republicans! Not only are they making people waterboard themselves, you can even die from it now.
Stop the Hypocrisy, Two people die and the best you can do is make a political joke out of it. Your a complete jerk.
But at leest I kan spel.
And that's all you offer as a redeeming quality?Sad.
Oh yah, I kan punctuate2.
Can ANY Board on newsvine be free of political commentary?
Can any board on newsvine be free of people who dont like freedom? Ya lets start controlling thoughts and speech..
for situation's such as this...now snort some of those undisclosed fracking chemicals... from cheney's closed door meetings...that ought to clear your sinus...
Stop The Hypocrisy is just another redneck with nothing else to do but insult others to try and make himself feel like he's better.
I don't need to insult you, Sean-1817205. You do that pretty well on your own.
Harry Baung, walk into any pharmacy and ask for a neti pot. There are a lot of different brands to choose from. It may have started in India (?) but it's a big American thing to do now. Those two people didn't follow instructions about the water. It's as simple as being able to read, if they could.
I'd have to say it's a sign of the times, as far as some of you pointing your fingers. Wherein as, with the economy tanking, people are resorting to more creative ways to save a buck. Most of us don't hold a degree in chemical science/engineering or belong to the CDC, so I doubt most of you here had any idea there was a threat in our drinking water until it was stated; I myself included. So instead of "acting" like an egghead, why not show some compassion over the fact two people lost their lives. But I guess I'm asking too much as the greed of America undoubtedly outweighs the American soul.
This caught my eye as I have been doing nasal irrigation on and off for about 8 years via a Water-Pik and a special tip. I've had chronic sinus problems for many years and when I get stuffed up and feel like I have a sinus infection, I shoot salt-water up my nose and start taking generic Mucinex (guaifenisen) and a nasal decongestant.
This has worked better than 2 sinus surgeries, antibiotics and all the other crap my ENT prescribed. I used to have to go in and get antibiotics, once or twice a year. Nasal irrigation and Mucinex help with the symptoms and usually help clear up the infections, without antibiotics -- not sure they really help much anyway and too much antibiotics is a bad thing.
My ENT never said anything about nasal irrigation (probably because I would have stopped seeing him), but thanks to the Internet, I found out about it. I am not going to stop after hearing of only two cases, much farther South than I am. The Water-Pik shoots it up pretty far too! Oh, I just just use plain tap water too. I don't boil it or anything. A Water-Pik and a special tip to shoot water up my nose has worked wonders for me and many others.
Neti Pots have been used for years in India and in the US for awhile now too. You think if there was a serious risk, they/we would have stopped a long time ago. Boil water or used distilled if you are concerned, but I think the risk is generally low, especially if you don't live down South.
You can read more about nasal irrigation by googling "dr. grossan"
I recommend this to people all the time....sadly only seems to work for a few. I don't think the ENT was worried that you wouldn't come back (he has plenty of business) but rather that the success rate is so low.
yep... a snout full of salt water...clears me up...most of the time...when i get stopped up...
another good sinus clearing technique is say something stupid...you know...like a political angle to this story...have your old school father slap you hard at the lower back part of the skull...knock the snot out of you every time...bonus watery eyes will expel parasites from that danger zone...
Thanks for posting Jeremy. I do the same thing too with tap water. So far, so good, but if I stop doing it, the sinusitis comes back. The key is to remember to do it when you're well. The tap water I use is in the Chicago suburbs, and it's Lake Michigan water.
I suppose this means I should stop using the front yard hose to clean my sinuses.....
heck... go a head and use the hedge clippers on those nasal hair...while your at it ...LOL...
Stupid a## article. Ok let's put more fear into natural healing so people will be strapped to voodoo non-health understanding practitioners that think chemicals are the answer.
A million or more people die each year under allopathic care. Why do they not report that?
This is just Natural Selection at work.
Unfortunately there will be a law outlawing Neti pots, thereby circumventing natural selection, again.....
That is why there are so many stupid people in the World
This is really a story about the sad condition of the water that is pumped into homes, isn't it?
Yes, it is about the sad condition of tap water and also maybe Global Warming? I read a news story earlier this year about people dying after swimming. I think it was in Florida. The cause of death was amoebas too, probably the same kind.
Maybe Global Warming has made these amoebas more prevalent?
Ha, it wasn't the neti pot, it was the bad water. Report it correctly and stop trying to scare folks. Neti pots work so we don't have to buy drugs. Sales must be down.
Did you know drug companies are now allowed to give money to the FDA? How impartial do you think they can stay?
you mean the drug company's who make political contributions to elected politicians...who appoint the heads of the F.D.A. ...
A vote for Ron Paul is a vote to keep your freedoms of choice, your choice. They will try to ban neti pots next. Why not ban the bad water? Big Pharma has deeeep pockets and politicians can be bought.
Ron Paul is a politician. Politicians can be bought. Ergo Ron Paul can be bought.
Of course we can't make informed choices if businesses are pretty much allowed to lie because Ron Paul doesn't believe in regulations.
drowned them boogers...
zZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!
Yes,irrigation of sinus passages using Neti Pot does use propulsive force.It HAS to be to work.In the first place,your upper body is bent toward a sink drain,the squeezable bottle containing the sterile saline solution is being pressed (if you're doing it yourself) to facilitate the up-and-out flow of the fluid into the nasal passage.Otherwise gravity will negate the process.I have done it for myself several times but it is uncomfortable and not lasting.Manypeople do not know that their *sinus problems* are actually initiated by acid reflux!Especially "silent reflux".I received info from a caring medical specialist.Acid reflux was treated,along with advice about eating too close to bedtime.After I changed my eating life style the acid reflux disappeared along with the *sinus problem*.Your digestive system really impacts your respiratory health.Go in good health and peace.
My ENT put a camera down my throat and showed me acid, supposedly, and said the same thing. I didn't have any heartburn problems. He prescribed the expensive and hyper-marketed drug Nexium. My sinus problems didn't go away though, probably because I'm allergic to dust mites?
In addition,it does not matter,many times,if you use sterile water,distilled (which is thought to also be sterile),the container for your solution may be suspect for pathogens.Use these kit and set-ups with caution.Someone says maybe this is an ad from companies who sell bottled water.I highly doubt that because the directions specifically warn against use of bottled and tap water. I would never use Neti Pot again,personally.
My husband has been fighting sinus problems, serious, for months. Won't see a doctor. And, he stopped taking Prilosec on a regular basis, and switched to just sometimes and generics. I've suspected that his increased sinus problems was tied to his GERD! I am going to suggest your advice. (and yes the whole article is scary - glad I live where it is cold and we have a good municipal water system.....)
To *Sandy V.* and others who may like to know,before I got to the medical specialist who helped me so much,I went to other "physicians" who prescribed Nexium,Prilosec,Aciphex,Zantac.I spent money,money,money,ended up in the hospital,with electrolyte imbalance (which can be immediately deadly),plus these acid blocker medicines prevent the physical body from absorbing needed substances from food that we eat! Especially calcium required for your skeletal structure! Many physicians either are not aware of this or they just do not care.God made it possible for me to meet an honest,caring physician who laid the facts out,specifically,in the emergency room.Also please check medical research for yourself,it may save your and your loved one's life.At times we have to deny our own eating "luxuries" to become healthy.Come on,we can make a difference.A helpful website is "webmd.com".Love and success in His Name to you.
They seem to think putting chlorine in the water that is poured into the sinuses is a good thing or something. We're talking bleach here, people. Why can't we kill the bugs the way they do overseas? Ozonation is a much safer way to purify water for the public even if it is more expensive. Since when has our government (state, county or federal) ever considered safety a higher priority than inexpensive? Personally, I've used a neti pot and it works wonderfully. Two deaths linked to the water should not turn people off to using neti pots. Those two people chose to not use distilled water or boiling the tap water they used in them. My neti pot states right on the box that distilled water should be used. It was purely two people choosing to ignore the directions.
Actually, where I live, ozonation is being used to treat our municipal water. It was implemented after an outbreak of Cryptosporidium. There was a great deal of political arguing over the costs, but after considering people died, reason won out. On the other hand, if Naegleria was actually present in the tap water in this case, it is completely inexcusable.
I think the first thing someone needs to ascertain is did the victims have city water or well water. Many seem to forget that with the abundance of city water, there are many communities and outlying homes with limited or non-existing treated city water.
Boiling kills bacteria and I believe it's recommended with Netipots, not to mention drinking water.
If it isn't one thing or another, we all face the same fate, DEATH. Next!
I use water filtration on all my tap water. That gets everything alive, and most toxins and minerals. I pre-boil anything I plan to use medicinally, especially if its going into my nasal passages.
Before I was filtering my water. I would get sick a couple times a year, inexplicably. Real short 24 hrs sicknesses. Since I started filtering, I havent had that in 5 years now. And I dont live in the South, where water quality is even more of a concern. You cant have too clean water in my book.