3? Seriously, 3? Is that one for each of your viewers?

3 can turn into 300, 300 to 3000, 3000 to 300k. Kids go to school and can be spreading it to other kids and family members.

This is serious. Only 3 have been confirmed, but in a few days or weeks, that number can reach to hundreds or thousands.

Arieus- Were all going to die. Quick do something, were all going to die. Arieus, what drug company do you work for.

The zombie apocalypse usually starts with one (or very few) alpha zombies. If left unchecked, society breaks down within weeks. Having 3 zombies around can be very dangerous, don't you think?

Wash your hands ? Ya right" Many people live like pigs" what a Novelty.. I am in a very unique position to know this as a heating and air conditioning repairman.

H3N2 is in the virion cycle, but from this report the DNA is recombinant from human, avian, H1N1, and swine flu viruses. The children in Iowa did not have contact with swine. Swine have similar organs to humans as do goat, sheep and bird. In the 1990's the Asian bird population was decimated by a virus. Then, humans in Asia had lived in proximity to their swine and there was concern. Asia is over populated and the Law of Nature will prevail.

Precautions are important, I always freeze my chicken, turkey and other fowl before roasting. Washing hands, covering the mouth when sneezing and when ill staying home is best to prevent spreading the virus.

Not 3. "...including 10 with the H3N2 virus that carries the M gene from the 2009 H1N1 virus..." And these kids were not vaccinated with any of the flu vaccines. And, these showed up in Indiana, Pennsylvania, Maine, and Iowa. Do you think that every fever is tested and every doctor sends the CDC samples? It is amazing that they even got a few. My grandson was not tested just last week when we took him to the doctor for a horrible cough that every kid seems to have, whether the kids are vaccinated or not.

For me, the bottom line is that it was not serious. I am not saying there are not risks in this world, but sometimes, we panic too easily. Unfortunately, the media loves to get an emotional response. So, they blow things out of proportion to make it sound like they have a big story. There is no big story here.

Iowa...A great place to grow!!!...Corn & Pigs

Bohica, the only one mentioning the word panic is you. The doctor's said they were concerned. Why are you projecting panic onto other people?

They will.

And they pushed SO hard to have everyone get the current shot. Oh well, I guess it's just another reason to make more money. I'd rather just have the flu without the shot. You're going to get it anyway. There's no way to verify, when you do get it, if the flu shot actually did the job. It's just one big scam.

I've not been taken down by the flu ever since I started receiving flu shots. What used to take a week now takes about half a day. Go figure.

Flu is very contagious. Each round in the viruses life cycle will produce a logarithmic growth in flu cases. 9 or 10 cases next time around? 100 the time after that? 10,000 on the next cycle? Maybe they can contain it, but I doubt it. The flu kills thousands each year.

Flu vaccinations are a good idea and the only effective remedy doctors have for the flu.

Sometimes people advocate for things because they have evidence that they work. I think if you actually look at the data on the flu vaccine, you'll see that doctors push it because it works. It's not perfect, but it's better than not getting it.

Cutting way back on sugar and carbohydrates and taking plenty of probiotics or yogurt also helps build your immune system so you don't provide these critters with a walking smorgasbord. In the microbial world, just as in the "real" world, these microbes will prey on the weak, nothing new here.

Our family does this, we never get the flu vaccines, and we haven't been sick in a decade or longer...Notice how cheap this idea is too?

It would be intersting to know if these kids were vaccinated for "seasonal flu" (which now includes H1N1 vacc as well). WE've had some random "extinct" illnesses pop up here (typhoid for example) and the kids that contracted it were vaccinated for flu. Same with the pertussis outbreak...all children and adults who had flu shot. It's a bit scary. I had to take HEAVY DUTY anti-biotics for a staph infection and I now am tracked by CDC to see what I might be susceptible to. Sure it killed the staph but now I could be super vulnerable to something else. It is now legally mandated that all children under 5 in CT must have flu vaccine. I wonder what fresh hell we're forcing these kids into down the road?

I was wondering who has been adding little things to current things to cause this.

Could it be possible, as we vaccinate for more and more diseases, that our immune system is getting weaker and weaker? Perhaps we need to experience these illnesses, to fortify ourselves against future disease assaults.

@God bless America - On an individual basis, that is unlikely as the vaccination simply causes your body to produce antibodies for that disease, the same type of reaction that your body would have if you actually got the disease. It doesn't affect your bodies reaction to other diseases.

Or do you mean in a Darwin sense as, it could be argued that vaccines prevent people with weaker immune systems from dying from diseases that they are not exposed to because others are vaccinated or because they already have antibodies for the disease.

check out gadolinium, too. it's the "contrast dye" for MRI scans, it's metal. see what it does , esp if you have decreased renal function by eGFR. It's not in the 2011 PDR or Nurse's Drug Handbook, 2011 Lippincott, but CT contrast is. Search gadolinium or mrisideeffects.com even the FDA.gov-gadolinium with the blackbox warnings does not tell you its a rare earth metal, used in film development, it's chelated, but it dechelates under certain conditions. I thought they wouldn't get to me, they did, I got the skin sx this July, last MRI was Dec 2010. Fortunately, it's not a severe case, yet anyway. check it out, and check TC99, too. Flu shots would be injected into the deltoid muscle, not intravenously, but I know what you mean. People need to pay attention to all the new technology and nuclear scans/metals junk they are trying to put in us, whether, food, meds or inhaled, xenon gas w oxygen for VQ scans, while some are necessary, most aren't and won't change the outcome or the treatment. Gadolinium is ferromagnetic, retain heat or cold at extreme temperatures, as in cooling rods/ponds for nuclear power plants. TC99 is a nuclear waste product, like to call it Cardiolyte, or other stupid medical type names. Oh, BPA is on the radar , too. Avoid that if you "can". since it's in most canned foods and paper products, like money, receipts, etc....What's wrong with these people in this country? How greedy can you get? Must be genetic.

If I were in the government think tanks for getting this country back on top, I would get a new powerful flu vaccine out there...to fight the new powerful flu I invented...and implore all the elderly and young children, chronically ill or hospitalized to get the shot to protect them selves. Persons on medicare or Medicaid would qualify at once as it would be a government sponsored vaccine. I would also offer it to all prisoners who live in close proximity to each other and in danger of infecting each other. It would be declared "hard to find" or "in limited supply" so just regular folks who are young, strong and healthy would be denied the protection.

In the vaccine there would be a tiny time bomb that after several weeks would have grown enough in the body of the "now victim" to cause a massive failure of enough organs to result in the death of millions of the "most vulnerable" of our citizen ship. I might add that the little illness would not be contagious in the normal day-to-day contacts. We will keep the tax paying types in good health.

It would reduce Social Security costs, Medicare spending, prison expenses, and get rid of costly handicapped people. Hitler would be proud.

Somebody should write a book about this...then make the movie...fiction of course...then good luck selling that vaccine next year.

Just for the record I am on SS and get Medicare. I also get a flu shot every year...but I always wonder. I was affected by "Soylant Green." Great idea for a book.

As much as I think some people get into crack pot conspiracy theories, and in this I've heard a lot. Hell back in 1993 I had someone when I was vacationing in Montana (who I have reason to believe was part of the patriot network) who was telling my his theory. He thought that hidden tracking devices were embedded in all our currency, so the gov't could track all people who use cash :rofl Now admittedly with the use of credit cards, there is a record left behind on purchases; but hidden tracking devices in the dollar bill? /rofl

But, and this said I also wouldn't want to give everyone in the government ideas either. Because as much as some people do seem to make stuff up; there are other well known and documented cases such as with agent orange, and the exposure Vietnam vets had with it. We needn't provide ideas there... :o

I got mine. They say if you have diabetes you should get a flu shot also.

My husband is diabetic, and absolutely will not take a flu shot. He is covered under my insurance, and my employer utilizes a clinic where I and my dependents get free care and medications. We also get flu shots at no charge, but my husband firmly believes that there are tiny little computer chips in the vaccine itself- chips that travel to the brain and embed themselves, so that Big Brother can control us. I'm not sure if the diabetes or the metformin is affecting his mind, but sheesh! Oh, well, at least I and the kids get the vaccine, so maybe none of us can bring the flu home to him.

And that being said, I will once again not be lining up for my flu shot. The strain they choose for the shot is reasoned, but still a shot in the dark. Living healthily is your best defense against any virus.

Could we start with Wall Street? It's been said, worst rises to the top, the old Peter Principal, Don't know what it's called now. It's is shameful .

What you say IS fair.

and.......part of me I said PART of me(calm down all you "up with people"-People) would welcome the sweeping.

Let's all wait for the zombie apocalypse!

Even when you get flu, this shot is gonna make your system stronger in general to fight any type of flu

Prove it. And if what you say is true, then why change the formulation for the flu vaccine from year to year?

LTC, it's been proven many times that getting the Flu vaccine strengthens your immune system. The "myth" is those of you who continue to refuse to believe it. It's pretty much common sense, that injecting a weaker version of one strain will provide some resistance to other FLU. Keep in mind that's what most vaccines are about, be it anti-venom, or flu vaccine.

Oh, it is to prevent illness???? I thought it was a clever way to get about a trillion folks to pony out ten or more bucks to private drug company profits. Like the 99% sending money to the 1% as usual.

LTC, it's been proven many times that getting the Flu vaccine strengthens your immune system.

Where is your evidence? (And please don't cite studies bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical companies.) And, again, if it is true that...

injecting a weaker version of one strain will provide some resistance to other FLU

...then why bother formulating new vaccines year after year? It seems to me Pharma's shareholders would welcome reduced R&D budgets. More money for them.

OK, the truth lies somewhere in the middle here. There are different strains as the thing mutates. But the antigenns in the immune system are keyed to recognize certain protein structures if you will on the surface of the virus. This is part of the immune system's "recognition" for certain viruses, and why when something like chicken pox is beat, the immune system is ready for it the next time so one doesn't get sick.

Another strain can have different protein structures, which might not be recognizeable to the immune system. And hence the new shot each year. HOWEVER, if some of the antigens involved are similar for each virus, there can be a partial immunity, hence it could be said that the immune system is "stronger" if one would like to describe it as such. However if the protein structures on the surface of the virus are VERY DIFFERENT, the immune system wouldn't recognize it. Some strains might be more similar then others in this regard....

FYI, if I'm not citing a source here, it's because I didn't do a google source. I fell about 1 or 2 classes short of a minor of biology when I was in college (albeit I took these classes 10 years ago, and given how much things changed from the time I took it in high school with the discovery of extremo-philes and organisms that could exist in harsh climates like the geothermal vents on the bottom of the ocean) I won't rule out newer discoveries since. Much I heard during lectures back then...

LTC - The pharmaceutical companies do not decide the formulation of the annual flu vaccine. The CDC and the World Health Organization review data from around the world looking for the most prevalent, currently circulating strains flu virus (there are approximately 3000 strains). They pick the strains they reason will be the most advantageous to include in the next year's vaccine. Its not an exact science because there is a fairly long lead time needed in order to produce the vaccine. The decision is generally made early in the year (January/February) for the vaccine to be delivered in the fall. The formulation changes every year because the circulating strains of the virus change every year, not because of some big government conspiracy.

Take the vaccine, don't take the vaccine its a personal choice for most people. For some, like many healthcare workers, it is becoming mandatory that they take the vaccine. Know that just about as many people die every year in the US (35,000 to 45,000) from the flu as die from automobile crashes. While for most healthy adults getting the flu is inconvenient and uncomfortable, its not fatal; although businesses lose billions of dollars annually from absenteeism related to the flu.

And to answer the question that Wake up Now asked... Yes it is illegal not to send your kids to school and it is illegal to send them to school without vaccines. Therefore, it is illegal not to vaccinate your kids. Get over it. The vaccinations are against communicable diseases that easily spread from one child to another. What you are protecting is your right to have your children make other children sick, perhaps fatally. Keeping them home when they are sick with those illnesses doesn't work because your non-vaccinated kids are contagious for days before they show any sypmptoms of the disease. That is why these diseases spread so quickly.

Thank you for providing an intelligent response here. When I read a lot of these posts I dispair, no wonder we are about 45th in the world in science.

People who do not wish to vaccinate their children are permitted to sign waivers excusing their children from vaccination, and can still send their kids to school. If your child is vaccinated, you don't have to worry about them catching another disease. I personally would rather my children get the flu and childhood diseases; we have supportive medicine to prevent most death. It is my opinion that strengthening their immune system by exercising it against known diseases is preferable to succombing to or being crippled by any one of a number of autoimmune type diseases and may keep them out of the diabetes epidemic. And of course, all of those with health compromise should be vaccinated.

No kidding, and they like to report isolated incidents like they happen to everyone. It's only 3 people. This is not journalism.

If bird flu wasn't controlled, it might have mutated or combined with something else and half the world would be dead by now. Swine flu was rampant in 2009 but thankfully it didn't mutate into something extremely deadly. How many close calls do you need to go through before you finally learn?

so you had pneumonia or an allergic reaction? Or something else entirely that you blamed on the shot?

The pneumonia shot cannot cause pneumonia because it is not made from the bacteria itself, but from a bacterial component that is not infectious.

The pneumonia shot cannot cause pneumonia because it is not made from the bacteria itself, but from a bacterial component that is not infectious.

The implications are not true. Are you denying that it's impossible that his/her lungs started filling with fluid immediately after taking a "pneumonia" vaccine?

robert,

its not impossible, its just probably not related to the vaccine.

You don't understand. You need evidence. Theories alone aren't good enough, even if they sound right to you

I took the flu shot once, and had a similar response. I missed a week of work, and have never taken it again. I think I have had the flu once in the last decade. I had all the childhood diseases, and am very careful about my health, as far as eating right, getting rest, taking vitamins, etc. A strong, well-exercised immune system is the best preventive medicine.

"robert,

its not impossible, its just probably not related to the vaccine.

You don't understand. You need evidence. Theories alone aren't good enough, even if they sound right to you"

That's very scientific-probably not related to the vaccine?

Where's your evidence that its not related to the vaccine. The doors swings both ways doesn't it?

Amen.

I know you wrote it in jest but eating a little dirt might very well be the key (or NOT killing every micro organism you touch with "anti bacterial"gel)to keeping the immune system in practice- giving it exercise , so to speak, might be helpful in fending off allergies.

Look at all the peanut and gluten allergies that never used to exist.

"anti- bacterial" wipes and soaps never used to exist either.

My neighbor has always been a germaphobe. She gave birth to a son who is allergic to...well...LIFE. I can't help but feel her habits robbed the kid of some natural process we don't completely understand.

I avoid the gels and wipes and my family is not allergic to anything and N-E-V-E-R do we fall ill. NEVER.

Just sayin".....

Thoughts?

i actually completely agree, the eat dirt comment is suppose to be funny but its also a real life suggestion for kids. being outside, getting dirty, and being around germs allows the body to build up resistance to them. i lived my summers outside as a kid and still do, i washed my hands with regular soap but only after the bathroom or when caked in mud. otherwise, well, germs dont taste much different then the food you eat. ive been truely sick twice in the past 15 years, sucked it up and got better. the best medicine is the kind that doesnt come from te brain (ie. medicine and and antibacterials) but from the heart (good food, love, laughter, and living life). my favorite quote is " i dont want to go to the grave in a perfectly preserved body, i want to slide in, torn up, exhausted and worn out, thinking, man what a hell of a ride"

nonsense.

Im a doctor and would dismiss your cousin's claims as well. It makes no medical sense, sorry

That's a strong claim considering there was a highly publicized case in recent years relating to exactly what taryta described. Though the validity of this woman's case was questioned, other doctors said it was a possibility even if they did not believe this particular woman. I guess you are in disagreement with your own. At least it was medically possible to them.

The woman was an NFL cheerleader I think.

Your story is NOT two examples.

She probably did a lot of things before her trip to the E.R.

Getting a shot, being one of those things, does not a connection make.

As for your kiddo - I see no evidence of vaccine issue there either. Just the timing of events making an unscientific impression on you because of your emotional connection and desire to find an answer.

Im a doctor and would dismiss your cousin's claims as well.

Eric, you've just proved taryta's point:

vaccine reactions are under reported and not even taken seriously by the doctors

Seeing as how you're a doctor, I'm sure you know quite a bit. Here's what I know:

1. Common vaccine ingredients include, among other things, mercury (in the form of Thimerosol), aluminum, formaldehyde, propylene glycol, peanut oil, and remnants of rotten media used to grow the vaccines (including such things as eggs, monkey kidneys, cow blood, human embryos, etc.).

2. Mercury is a known neurotoxin.

3. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin and carcinogen.

4. Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen.

5. Propylene glycol can irritate various tissues and can have detrimental effects on the central nervous system.

6. Mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, and propylene glycol are not good for my body.

7. It is not good for my body if I inject (or if someone else injects) peanut oil into my blood stream or muscles, thereby bypassing the digestive tract where it would normally be broken down into useful nutrients.

8. It is not good for my body if I inject (or if someone else injects) bits of rotten eggs, monkey kidneys, cow blood, or human embryos into my blood stream or muscles. (If I were to consider ingesting any of these things, they would typically pass through my digestive tract where the proteins would be broken down into their consitutent amino acids, which my body could then use. Injection, of course, bypasses the digestive tract.)

Maybe these things are good for your body, but they're certainly not good for mine.

well there's the solution. instead of injecting and allowing the vaccine components to bypass your digestive tract, clearly you just need to crack open the vial and allow them to pass through your digestive tract.

you said it three times, so i feel the need to do so as well. digestive tract.

well there's the solution. instead of injecting and allowing the vaccine components to bypass your digestive tract, clearly you just need to crack open the vial and allow them to pass through your digestive tract.

Yes, of course! How could I have missed that? Well, that solves the problem with the mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, and propylene glycol, now doesn't it??? Brilliant. I'll be sure to try that...after you. I insist.

lemme fill in some of the blanks from your multi-bulleted list above.

Hg - if there is any, it's going to be in extremely trace amounts. meaning it ain't gonna do much. maybe kill off a few neurons. fun fact - every time you ride a roller coaster, the Gs you encounter kill off a couple hundred at a time. it was used to kill bacteria if there was a contamination of the doses. bacteria floating around your blood stream isn't all that great. actually, Hg toxicity was a better option than things like septic shock or lipid A induced DIC that usually kill people outright.

Al - if you've ever taken an antacid, worn makeup, used present day paints, or eaten anything in the last decade, you've been exposed to more aluminum than what's in a syringe. used as an adjuvant to trigger immune uptake of the viral components so the immune cells actually know what to do with them when they encounter the real thing.

CH2O - another preservative. thanks to the natural flora in your digestive tract, you actually fart out more than what's in the vial.

Cow blood - bovine serum albumin is a pretty nifty thing. when it's not being used as a nutrient medium, it works pretty well at keeping viral proteins from sticking together in the dose so the immune cells can actually deal with them.

C3H8O2 - if you've ever used toothpaste, eaten preserved foods, worn cologne, or shampooed your hair, you've been exposed to way higher levels.

Egg proteins - gotta grow the virions somewhere right? people don't usually like being used as viral incubators.

if you're going to go after the ingredients, at least have some idea of what they're used for and why.

dblhelix, LTC has apparently spent much time on rollercoasters and is not swayed by either logic or truth. Firm in the knowledge that the government boogiemen are out to get him, he will find confirming evidence everywhere he looks. I had all those nasty childhood vaccinations and am usually first or second in line for the flu vaccine each year. Surprisingly, just like untold millions of others, I have not morphed into some flesh-eating zombie. But find one zombie out of 100 million people who have had the vaccine and obviously, the vaccine must be at fault.

disgusted,

No source=rumor. Thanks for playing

LTC,

Vitamin K is a hepatoxin, and Vitamin A is also a neurotoxin. You see, as dblhelix astutely points out, dose matters just as much as the substance in question. In small amounts, Vit K and Vit A are essential for proper bodily function; in larger amounts, they can be lethal. So pointing out that some vaccine components are toxic in doses many times higher than what is present in the syringe is as crazy as never eating vitamin A or Vitamin K because they are "toxins"

Again, if you don't know biology, then learn some before commenting

well doc tell that to all the now totally messed up young girls that got the gardesil vaccination go yo center for disese control they list the ingred in vac includes aluminum, MSG, mercury, antibiotics, formalydehyde,

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-cheerleader-flu-dystonia,0,2156277.story

Not rumor...glad to play. I'm not saying I believe her, but this was a huge story. In fact, I just typed in cheerleader and "cheerleader flu" popped right up. Sorry I didn't do the work for you upfront.

Oh, and if you haven't taken two seconds to check if a story does exist before commenting that someone is spreading a rumor, then don't comment at all.

Thanks for playing.

nonsense.

Im a doctor and would dismiss your cousin's claims as well. It makes no medical sense, sorry

That's because doctor's are educated and put into a culture to deny any vaccine damage accept tender red spots on the arm. Of course you would dismiss it. Your teachers and colleagues taught you to do so.

Many a doctors have been made examples of when they question the "wisdom" of mass vaccination. It's best for your career to never ever question the vaccine policy of one size fits all. Just do what your colleagues do, right or wrong, and your career will be safe.

In small amounts, Vit K and Vit A are essential for proper bodily function... Again, if you don't know biology, then learn some before commenting

Eric, please educate me. In what amount is mercury essential for proper bodily function?

Your argument is faulty. It's like saying, "Drinking too much alcohol at one time will kill you. But since drinking too much water all at the same time will also kill you, drinking alcohol is just as safe -- and beneficial -- as drinking water."

disgusted,

hahaha...wait, let me catch my breath, im seriously laughing out loud. You actually believe that a 2 paragraph story from KTLA is a reliable source?? That's hysterical. You know, my uncle's neighbor's brother's cousin thinks obama is really from mars. Maybe we should send a probe there to find out. Hahah...KTLA can have the exclusive

All kidding aside, a "source" in a scientific sense is a journal or textbook. Maybe flu vaccine can result in dystonia, i honestly don't know. If you provide a true source, then that would have to be taken into account when advising people of their risks when getting the flu shot. But a KTLA article? come on, even you know better than that

LTC,

you are sidestepping my point and you know it. The point isn't what trace minerals your body requires; its that many substances can be inert, harmful, or even helpful (as in vitamins) depending on the dose.

Just because your body requires vitamins, and doesn't require mercury, does it make that point invalid

Unless you can demonstrate to me that the trace quantities of mercury in vaccines is harmful

And if you did that, you would have to stop eating plants AND animals, because many plants and animals contain mercury

Environmental Sciences 2005 Low level mercury uptake by plants from natural environments

Hg - if there is any, it's going to be in extremely trace amounts. meaning it ain't gonna do much. maybe kill off a few neurons. fun fact - every time you ride a roller coaster, the Gs you encounter kill off a couple hundred at a time.

Actually, the current multi-dose flu vaccines have just as much mercury in them as ever. In case you're interested in facts, Merck's own MSDS classifies it as "T+" meaning "very toxic" and also warns of cumulative effects of repeated exposure (read, "annual vaccination"). The MSDS also reads, "This material and its container must be disposed of as hazardous waste." Hazardous waste that is routinely injected into human bodies... (To view the MSDS, Google the phrase "merck thimerosal safety data sheet according to regulation (ec) No. 1907/2006").

And, by the way, I don't ride roller coasters for the specific reason you mentioned. I value my brain cells.

Al - if you've ever taken an antacid, worn makeup, used present day paints, or eaten anything in the last decade, you've been exposed to more aluminum than what's in a syringe.

I actually go out of my way to avoid personal care products and processed foods containing aluminum, there is no aluminum cookware in my house, and, whenever possible, I use "green" household maintenance/cleaning products. Again, I value my brain cells.

CH2O - another preservative. thanks to the natural flora in your digestive tract, you actually fart out more than what's in the vial.

Still a carciongen...

Cow blood - bovine serum albumin is a pretty nifty thing.

Still doesn't belong in my blood stream.

C3H8O2 - if you've ever used toothpaste, eaten preserved foods, worn cologne, or shampooed your hair, you've been exposed to way higher levels.

Again, I don't eat processed foods (and therefore avoid preservatives), I don't use cologne, and I use personal care products that are free of propylene glycol.

Egg proteins - gotta grow the virions somewhere right? people don't usually like being used as viral incubators.

Still don't belong in my blood stream.

if you're going to go after the ingredients, at least have some idea of what they're used for and why.

I'm quite aware of what these ingredients are used for. It just strikes me as highly improper to inject them into human beings.

Unless you can demonstrate to me that the trace quantities of mercury in vaccines is harmful

Show me the studies (not paid for or conducted by Merck, Eli Lilly, or the like) that demonstrate mercury in vaccines is not harmful.

And if you did that, you would have to stop eating plants AND animals, because many plants and animals contain mercury

It's true that our environment is polluted and that mercury and other toxins are in our food system. However, mercury toxicity is cumulative. So it makes sense to avoid exposure to it as much as possible, wouldn't you think? Or should we just continue to mainline the crap...maybe even bathe ourselves in it...since it's in the air and the food anyway?

Show me the studies (not paid for or conducted by Merck, Eli Lilly, or the like) that demonstrate mercury in vaccines is not harmful

a)youre trying to prove the point here, not me. I don't have to DISPROVE your theory in order to substantiate mine

But I'll indulge you

I-MOVE Multi-Centre Case Control Study 2010-11: Overall and Stratified Estimates of Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness in Europe.

Or better yet, just go to pubmed and type "flu vaccine" and "effictiveness" and research it your own darn self. The best argument is an educated one

It's true that our environment is polluted and that mercury and other toxins are in our food system. However, mercury toxicity is cumulative. So it makes sense to avoid exposure to it as much as possible, wouldn't you think? Or should we just continue to mainline the crap...maybe even bathe ourselves in it...since it's in the air and the food anyway?

Reductum ad absurdum is your logical fallacy here. Anyway, you are missing the point. Mercury is in the air, water, and food supply. Did you even ask yourself if vaccines add a trivial amount or large amount compared to your life long exposure? Did you ask yourself why Japanese do not have substantially higher rate of all of your paranoid health problems, despite their high fish (mercury) intake, which far exceeds the amount in a vaccine?

You need to ask yourself those questions before continuing

You provide studies about flu vaccine effectiveness. It is you who is missing the point, not I. The question is about safety, not effectiveness. And you accuse me of sidestepping... But I understand it is difficult to find what does not exist (studies showing that Thimerosal is not harmful, in case you missed that).

This is obviously going nowhere. You apparently choose to be brainwashed into bowing down to the sacred cow of western "medicine" (vaccines, in case you missed that). That is your prerogative. I'm sure you, as a doctor, have a lot of influence over a lot of lives. Very sad, indeed. You would serve your patients well to do an independent study (not one provided by your CME...paid for primarily by Pharma) about the things you inject into your blindly trusting patients' bodies.

Have a nice day. Be sure to cook that turkey thoroughly...you wouldn't want to catch a bird flu, now, would you?

then type in flu and "safety" Jeez, do I have to spell out EVERYTHING for you? Can't you figure out anything on your own, even how to search pubmed? Come on, even YOU can manage that, right?

If I felt like taking advice from people who are less educated than me, I would take yours. But for you to presume that you can treat patients better than me, after I have spent my entire adult life learning how, is preposterous and borderline egomanical

have a great thanksgiving. And keep your paranoid delusions about bird flu to yourself

Sounds like Guillian Barre, a paralytic disease that has a tendency to follow vaccinations around.

then type in flu and "safety"

No need to. I've already read numerous studies discussing the toxic effects of Thimerosal, particularly on the CNS. If you know anything about using PubMed, you, too, can find these same studies.

If I felt like taking advice from people who are less educated than me, I would take yours.

You have no idea what my level of education is. Likewise, I have no idea what yours is.

But for you to presume that you can treat patients better than me, after I have spent my entire adult life learning how, is preposterous and borderline egomanical

You have no idea what I do for a living or how I have spent my entire adult life.

Seems like I may have hit a nerve...

And keep your paranoid delusions about bird flu to yourself

I was being facetious (look it up).

have a great thanksgiving.

Thank you. You, too. Logging off now. I've got better things to do today. I hope you do, too.

Its funny that you have all this proof on pubmed, yet have not cited one source. I smell a lie...

You also ignored my excellent points about asian mercury exposure, but that's your specialty, ignoring evidence that doesn't fit your model

as for the rest of your post, youre getting personal and childish, so its best you probably go. I do feel sorry for those that have to spend thanksgiving with you though, please give them my regrets

Here's another simple question:

If the mercury in vaccines lead to neurodevelopmental damage in children, where are the peer-reviewed papers showing this damage?

In the end, that is the only question that matters. All those other questions just serve to suggest a conspiracy is afoot.

If vaccines did cause widespread damage to children's development, where are the papers that document that?

Mercury and Aluminum are known neurotoxins. If the question is whether those ingredients being in vaccines specifically could damage developing children I don't need a specific paper to decide whether to give those vaccines to my children.

Caffeine is neurotoxic at a high enough dose. Do you drink coffee? The thing to remember is that toxicity is about how much of the chemical you ingest. The amount of mercury in a shot is lower than other exposure routes like a piece of fish. Also the type of mercury in vaccines is less toxic than the metal you find in fish.

So my point is: In science, we don't just assume the answer. We find evidence to support it. Right now you're reasoning goes like this: Mercury is toxic in some forms and doses. Therefore when you put it in vaccines to causes damage to kids. But how do you know the dosage is toxic in shots? How do you know that mercury and aluminium in shots causes damage to developing brains? The only way to know is to do a study.

Some scientists have already done such studies and found no link between the mercury in vaccines and neurodevelopmental disorders like autism.

My questions answered honestly suggest CORRUPTION in the United States of America's government. What exactly do answers like yours, and the answers from the government representatives suggest?

But your questions only suggest a conspiracy, they do not prove a conspiracy. That's the whole point. You need evidence, not innuendo. That's why I keep asking people like you to provide evidence for your position.

I was asking educated people debating about the dangers of mercury in vaccines. Your posts in this topic seem to only suggest people sharing their knowledge/thoughts are wrong.

I'm simply saying that if you say vaccines harm children, then you should have direct evidence of harm on hand to support your position.

@Eric:

First, I hope you and your family had a great Thanksgiving. Now, to respond.

Its funny that you have all this proof on pubmed, yet have not cited one source. I smell a lie...

Here. Try these for a start:

1. Olczak, M., et al. Lasting neuropathological changes in rat brain after intermittent neonatal administration of thimerosal. Folia Neuropathol 2010; 48 (4): 258-269.
2. Olczak, M., et al. Persistent behavioral impairments and alterations of brain dopamine system after early postnatal administration of thimerosal in rats. Behav Brain Res. 2011 Sep 30;223(1):107-18.
3. Sulkowski, Z. L., et al. Maternal Thimerosal Exposure Results in Aberrant Cerebellar Oxidative Stress, Thyroid Hormone Metabolism, and Motor Behavior in Rat Pups; Sex- and Strain-Dependent Effects. Cerebellum. 2011 Oct 21. [Epub ahead of print]
4. Duszczyk-Budhathoki, M. Administration of Thimerosal to Infant Rats Increases Overflow of Glutamate and Aspartate in the Prefrontal Cortex: Protective Role of Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate. Neurochem Res. 2011 Oct 21. [Epub ahead of print]
5. Dórea, J. G. Integrating experimental (in vitro and in vivo) neurotoxicity studies of low-dose thimerosal relevant to vaccines. Neurochem Res. 2011 Jun;36(6):927-38.
6. Mutter, J., et al. Kawasaki's disease, acrodynia, and mercury. Curr Med Chem. 2008;15(28):3000-10.
7. Geier, D. A., et al. A case series of children with apparent mercury toxic encephalopathies manifesting with clinical symptoms of regressive autistic disorders. J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2007 May 15;70(10):837-51.
8. Herdman, M. L., et al. Thimerosal induces apoptosis in a neuroblastoma model via the cJun N-terminal kinase pathway. Toxicol Sci. 2006 Jul;92(1):246-53.
9. Humphrey, M. L., et al. Mitochondrial mediated thimerosal-induced apoptosis in a human neuroblastoma cell line (SK-N-SH). Neurotoxicology. 2005 Jun;26(3):407-16.

Now, where's your evidence showing that Thimerosal is harmless?

You also ignored my excellent points about asian mercury exposure, but that's your specialty, ignoring evidence that doesn't fit your model

I take it you're referring to this when you reference your "excellent points":

Did you ask yourself why Japanese do not have substantially higher rate of all of your paranoid health problems, despite their high fish (mercury) intake, which far exceeds the amount in a vaccine?

Well, I can't address your "excellent points" without a little bit more information. First, to which "paranoid health problems" do you refer? Second, where are the statistics showing the rates of such "paranoid health problems" in the Japanese population and comparison to the same "paranoid health problems" in the United States?

as for the rest of your post, youre getting personal and childish, so its best you probably go.

Oh, you mean like this?

people who are less educated than me

I do feel sorry for those that have to spend thanksgiving with you though, please give them my regrets

I think those were your words, my friend…not mine.

Let's take a stab at these papers:

1. Olczak, M., et al. Lasting neuropathological changes in rat brain after intermittent neonatal administration of thimerosal. Folia Neuropathol 2010; 48 (4): 258-269.

1) This paper looks at rats, not people. So you'd need to show that the same thing happens in human brains. 2) The journal, Folia Neuropathology, is a pretty obscure polish journal. But most importantly 3) look at the dosages they give the rats: The critters got four shots of either 12 or 240 micrograms of thimerosal per kg of animal body weight within a 15 day span. At about 6 months, the average baby weighs between 6 and 9 kg. So the dosage that the rats got in that study is equivalent to giving a smallish 6-month-year-old baby four shots each containing between 72 and 1440 micrograms of thimerosal. That's a total of between 288 and 5760 micrograms of thimerosal over 15 days. But when you go to the CDC page that lists how much mercury is in each vaccine, you'll find that none contain more than 25 micrograms, well below the dosage shown to cause harm in this study of rats. Also most vaccines today, and no childhood vaccines, contain thimerosal.

2. Olczak, M., et al. Persistent behavioral impairments and alterations of brain dopamine system after early postnatal administration of thimerosal in rats. Behav Brain Res. 2011 Sep 30;223(1):107-18.

Another rat study. See above. This one again uses doses higher than those found in actual vaccines--from 12 to 3000 micrograms per kg of animal body weight. In terms of a small 6-month-old human baby, that's equal to 72 to 18000 micrograms, again lower than 25 micrograms, the highest dosage found in an actual vaccine.

3. Sulkowski, Z. L., et al. Maternal Thimerosal Exposure Results in Aberrant Cerebellar Oxidative Stress, Thyroid Hormone Metabolism, and Motor Behavior in Rat Pups; Sex- and Strain-Dependent Effects. Cerebellum. 2011 Oct 21. [Epub ahead of print]

Another rat study, but different group of researchers. This group looked at doses of 200 micrograms per kg of animal body weight. That's 1200 micrograms of thimerosal injected into a smallish 6-month-year-old human baby--48 times greater than any single shot's worth of the mercury preservative.

4. Duszczyk-Budhathoki, M. Administration of Thimerosal to Infant Rats Increases Overflow of Glutamate and Aspartate in the Prefrontal Cortex: Protective Role of Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate. Neurochem Res. 2011 Oct 21. [Epub ahead of print]

Back to that first group of researchers here--again looking at rats. They find that the 12.5 microgram thimerosal per kg body weight dose doesn't change release of two neurotransmitters, but a 240 microgram per kg dose did. So a dose equal to 1440 micrograms of thimerosal for a 6 month old causes neuronal changes. But no baby receives more than 25 micrograms in a shot.

5. Dórea, J. G. Integrating experimental (in vitro and in vivo) neurotoxicity studies of low-dose thimerosal relevant to vaccines. Neurochem Res. 2011 Jun;36(6):927-38.

This one isn't an actual study, it's a literature review. No problem with that. Let's look at Table 1. They look at studies that mention low doses of thimerosal on cultured human and animal cells. Those concentrations look to be on par with what you get in a shot, but without looking at those individual studies, I can't say for sure. But the problem here is that now we've moved from whole organisms to cultured cells--a step in the wrong direction. Also a lot of the human cells are tumor cell lines, not normal neuronal cells.

6. Mutter, J., et al. Kawasaki's disease, acrodynia, and mercury. Curr Med Chem. 2008;15(28):3000-10.

So these authors set up a correlation: more thimerosal-containing shots leads to greater incidence of a rare disease called Kawasaki's. But as all scientists know, a correlation doesn't prove causation. So you'll need more than that to prove a link.

7. Geier, D. A., et al. A case series of children with apparent mercury toxic encephalopathies manifesting with clinical symptoms of regressive autistic disorders. J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2007 May 15;70(10):837-51.

This one is odd. 1) One of the authors (Mark Greier) is a known anti-vaccine crusader and crank. He's had is medical license suspended in multiple states and some of his publications have been retracted. And if the authors list wasn't fishy enough, they look at 9 subjects--9! That is nowhere near sufficient to make any meaningful conclusion.

8. Herdman, M. L., et al. Thimerosal induces apoptosis in a neuroblastoma model via the cJun N-terminal kinase pathway. Toxicol Sci. 2006 Jul;92(1):246-53.

9.Humphrey, M. L., et al. Mitochondrial mediated thimerosal-induced apoptosis in a human neuroblastoma cell line (SK-N-SH). Neurotoxicology. 2005 Jun;26(3):407-16.

These two studies look at cultured cells, not rats, not people. And they look at tumor cell lines, not normal neurons. The dosages are in line with what you get in a shot, but there is a long way from cultured tumor cell lines and people.

So what you have listed are 4 studies looking at rats getting dosages of thimerosal far above what a child would experience; a study that only presents a correlation; a paper from a oft-discredited researcher looking at 9 subjects; and 3 studies focusing on the effects of theimerosal on human cancer cell lines.

Meanwhile, I can present you several studies that looked at thimerosal's effects on real children. And these studies show no link between the mercury compound and autism:

• Prenatal and Infant Exposure to Thimerosal From Vaccines and Immunoglobulinsand Risk of Autism Price C et al., Pediatrics. Vol. 126 No. 4 October 2010, pp. 656-664

This study compares about 250 autistic kids to 750 non-autistic kids. They find no difference in the amount of thimerosal received by either group.

• Continuing increases in autism reported to California's developmental servicessystem: mercury in retrograde Schechter and Grether, 2008, Archives of General Psychiatry. 65(1):19-24

This study finds no slow in the increase of autism rates in California after 2002, when the state removed thimerosal from childhood vaccines.

• Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years Thompson, et al. 2007, New England Journal of Medicine. 357:1281-129

This study looks at 1,000+ children and compared the total amount of thimerosal they received and how they performed at basic neurological tests--speech, behavior, motor control, etc. They so only a few small effects of the thimerosal dosage received--a few which suggested a benefit. But overall they saw no effect of thimerosal dossage experienced and deficits in neurological development.

• Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence andLinks With Immunizations Fombonne, et al., Pediatrics. Vol. 118 No. 1, 2006, pp. e139-e15

This study looked at almost 28,000 kids in Quebec, Canada. Quebec removed thimerosal from MMR vaccines around 1996. They compared the dossage of thimerosal received for kids born from 1987 to 1998 and the incidence of neurodevelopment disorders. They saw no link between the amount of thimerosal received and increased risk of developmental disorders.

So there are four papers from prestigious journals, looking at hundreds to thousands of a actual human children who received actual thimerosal-containing vaccines. And none of those studies show a link between the compound and neurodevelopmental disorders.

The data speaks for itself.

Wake Up Now:

Why avoid the questions, and attack people's interpretations of scientfic data, and the lack thereof...

I avoided that question, because it was moot. There is no evidence to suggest that thimerosal causes harm to kids. Also most vaccines nowadays don't have thimerosal. So that's why I avoided it.

@trip*toe*fan:

I hate to tell you this, but rats are frequently used in scientific experiments in order to approximate the effect of an agent on the human body. Wow. I thought this was common knowledge.

As for the studies you cite, the authors of the first (Prenatal and Infant Exposure to Thimerosal From Vaccines and Immunoglobulinsand Risk of Autism Price C et al., Pediatrics. Vol. 126 No. 4 October 2010, pp. 656-664) provide the following disclosures: “FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE: Dr. Marcy received honoraria for speaking for Merck and GlaxoSmithKline within the last 5 years and grant support for studies on Gardasil and ProQuad from Merck within the last 5 years; Mr. Lewis received grant support from Medimmune, Sanofi Pasteur, Chiron, Wyeth, Merck, and GlaxoSmithKline; and Dr. Bernal received research funding from the CDC, the National Institute of Mental Health, Health Resources and Service Administration, and Autism Speaks.” Do you really think this lot is going to make conclusions that will piss off their financial handlers?

With regard to the second (Continuing increases in autism reported to California's developmental services system: mercury in retrograde Schechter and Grether, 2008, Archives of General Psychiatry. 65(1):19-24), you state:

This study finds no slow in the increase of autism rates in California after 2002, when the state removed thimerosal from childhood vaccines.

First of all, the state did not remove thimerosal from childhood vaccines in 2002. Stocks of vaccines containing thimerosal were allowed to be used well past the “removal” date. Moreover, vaccine manufacturers were (and are) still allowed to use thimerosal in the production of childhood vaccines. From what I have read, it is very difficult to remove the thimerosal from the vaccines, which is why "trace" amounts are still allowed. Then the question arises: Who’s enforcing the no-thimerosal rule? Try looking into that matter. It’s really quite interesting. And then in recent years, the CDC has recommended that everyone aged 6 months and older receive an annual flu shot. Unless you’re exceedingly lucky, you will not get one of the preservative-free vaccines that come in the single-dose vials; rather, you, your kids, and your pregnant wife are going to get the one containing thimerosal. So can we really say that thimerosal has been removed from childhood vaccines?

With regard to the third study (Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years Thompson, et al. 2007, New England Journal of Medicine. 357:1281-129), the disclosures read, “Dr. Thompson reports being a former employee of Merck; Dr. Marcy, receiving consulting fees from Merck, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and MedImmune; Dr. Jackson, receiving grant support from Wyeth, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and Novartis, lecture fees from Sanofi Pasteur, and consulting fees from Wyeth and Abbott and serving as a consultant to the FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee; Dr. Lieu, serving as a consultant to the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices; Dr. Black, receiving consulting fees from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, and Merck and grant support from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Aventis, Merck, and Novartis; and Dr. Davis receiving consulting fees from Merck and grant support from Merck and GlaxoSmithKline.” Again, this doesn’t exactly seem like an unbiased cast of characters.

Finally, you cite Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence andLinks With Immunizations Fombonne, et al., Pediatrics. Vol. 118 No. 1, 2006, pp. e139-e15. Here are the disclosures: “In the United Kingdom, Dr. Fombonne has provided advice on the epidemiology and clinical aspects of autism to scientists advising parents, to vaccine manufacturers, and to several government committees between 1998 and 2001. Since June 2004, Dr. Fombonne has been an expert witness for vaccine manufacturers in US thimerosal litigation. None of his research has ever been funded by the industry.” Again, this presents a huge potential for bias. And as for Dr. Fombonne (since I know you’ll bring this up), it may be that “[n]one of his research has ever been funded by the industry,” but I’ll bet he’d like to continue receiving those expert witness fees he’s been getting since 2004.

So please answer this: What exactly does Greier have to gain by being “anti-vaccine”? It’s obvious the folks whose studies you cite have a financial interest in claiming that thimerosal is completely safe. Also, have you considered that perhaps Greier might be “anti-vaccine,” as you put it, precisely because he has found them (or at least some of their ingredients) to be unsafe? Have you also considered that he may have run into licensing problems because he has had the guts to publicly criticize the Sacred Cow of Western Medicine? Ask around to some physicians to find out what kind of hell they may face from the AMA if they dare go against the grain.

You would probably label me as "anti-vaccine," as well. While I would not choose to be vaccinated, I believe others have the right to be. The only thing I would insist upon is that the vaccines actually be safe.

There is no evidence to suggest that thimerosal causes harm to kids.

That’s a lie.

Also most vaccines nowadays don't have thimerosal.

If you do some homework, you’ll find this is also untrue. Anyway, trip, you’re done wasting my time. I'm so done with you.

I hate to tell you this, but rats are frequently used in scientific experiments in order to approximate the effect of an agent on the human body. Wow. I thought this was common knowledge.

That is true. But no scientist would conclude a biological effect happens in humans solely from data collected in rats. They would say that the rat data suggests it could happen in people. To prove that thimerosal causes harm in actual people, you need to show studies looking at humans, not rats.

As for the conflict of interest you find in the studies I cite, feel free to dismiss them. Of course, if those studies data were manipulated or fraudulent, why haven't those journals retracted those papers. Dr. Greier has had a couple papers retracted, so we know he isn't a credible researcher. Can you show that any of those paper's authors have had their papers retracted? Also Dr. Greier has plenty to gain from being anti-vaccine. He runs a clinic that claims to cure and treat autistic children. If he can convince people autism is caused by an environmental threat, like vaccines, he can hawk his snake oil to the parents of autistic children. That's why several states have suspended his medical license.

You have yet to provide a scientific paper that looks at humans and shows a link between thimerosal and autism. I have shown four that show no link. Also if there are still trace levels of thimerosal in vaccines, as you claim, then the compounds neurotoxic effect would have to happen at extremely low doses. None of the studies you presented show it is toxic at extremely low doses. So do you have any evidence to show that thimerosal has toxic effects on neurons at super low concentrations?

Anyway, trip, you’re done wasting my time. I'm so done with you.

What's with the attitude?

If vaccines do not cause injury or death why is it against the law in the United States of America to press criminal charges against manufacturers of vaccines? Civil lawsuits are also forbidden, but not my main concern.

If representatives in the United States of America passed a law forcing a product to most of the citizens(excluding themselves), and also forced a law keeping the manufacturers of those products immune to prosecution for injury or death of those citizens... Is this using the power of their seat for their own stocks, lobbyists, population control objectives, etc. or are they still upholding the Oath that they took when they accepted their position of power to govern the citizens?

Can a citizen of the United States of America press charges against the manufacturer of a vaccine if that manufacturer replaces a proven ingredient with a cheaper unproven ingredient to make a larger profit if that citizen incurs injury, or his/her children die because of the replacement ingredient?

Wake Up asks some important questions. In 1986, Congress passed – and President Reagan signed into law – the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 which served to insulate vaccine manufacturers from liability of any kind for injuries or deaths caused by the vaccines they produce. This was done because the vaccine manufacturers and their lobbyists complained loudly enough about being sued over and over again when their products maimed or killed people. They were paying out huge amounts of money in lost lawsuits. As a result, they were finding it increasingly difficult to obtain insurance. Ultimately, the vaccine manufacturers began to leave the market because they were finding the expense of compensating injured individuals or the families of dead patients cut too far into their profit margins.

Our lawmakers, believing that the use of vaccines was important to ensure the public health, devised a method by which individuals could present claims of injury or death they believed were caused by vaccinations and, if a court decided the particular casualty was, in fact, brought on by a particular vaccine. Remember, though, that these were politicians making drawing these conclusions, not scientists. There is still debate among reasonable people about the efficacy of vaccines. However, what these legislators and the President apparently missed is that any vaccine must be made safe, first and foremost. Instead of forcing the vaccine manufacturers to formulate vaccines that are truly safe, there is now an acceptance of what is termed “unavoidable harm” (a fancy terms for “side effects”) to some individuals who use the drugs. Some will say that all drugs have side effects; they are unavoidable and the benefits often outweigh the risks. This may be true, but can anyone name any drug (other than fluoride, which is another debate for another time) that the citizenry of this country is required to use? (Keep in mind that not all states have philosophical exemptions. In some states, the only parents who are allowed to refuse vaccines for their children are those for whose children vaccination is medically contraindicated.) For that matter, can any one name any other class of drugs for which the manufacturers have no liability? (Think Vioxx, Propulsid, Avandia, etc.)

Today, if an individual believes he or she has been injured by a vaccine or if a family believes one of its members has died as a result of a vaccine reaction, the only recourse they have is to file a claim with the U.S. Court of Federal Claims. Cases are heard before federal judges (no jury). If the judge determines the injury or death was caused by the vaccine, compensation is paid to the individual or family. Otherwise, if a judge denies a claim, there is no appeal; the decision is final.

Claims are paid from the Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund, which is funded by a $0.75 excise tax on each dose of vaccine that is administered in this country. Vaccines such as MMR and DTaP are taxed at $2.25 (or $0.75 x 3) because they are intended to prevent multiple diseases. In other words, those who use vaccines – i.e., taxpayers – carry the financial burden of paying compensation to other users of vaccines who have been injured or killed by the vaccines. The vaccine manufacturers have absolutely no liability and simply continue conducting their business as usual and collecting their profits. They don’t even have the nuisance of needing to respond to the allegations of injury or death. Since the first claims were made in 1989, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund has paid out over $2 billion in compensation to individuals and their families. I think it is fair to ask, how safe are these drugs when more than $2 billion has been paid out in compensation over the last 22 years, particularly when one considers that it is generally acknowledged that vaccine reactions, injuries, and deaths are grossly underreported?

(For more information about how the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 came to be, read the legislative history for Public Law 99-660 and “Childhood Immunizations,” a report prepared by the staff on the Subcommittee on Health and the Environment (Comm. Print 99-LL). See also the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Health Resources and Services Administration website.)

Does this all come down to a conspiracy? I don’t know. I prefer to believe it is the result of well-meaning, misguided, non-scientists who thought they could legislate into existence the best of both worlds, thereby enabling those who had been injured to achieve some compensation while still ensuring that public health would be “protected” by the kindly people at Merck and Wyeth.

With the state of the law such as it is, where the manufacturers of vaccines are completely absolved of any responsibility for harm caused by their products, and particularly in light of the questions of safety that surround vaccines, it is imperative that we, as a nation, ensure that each individual’s right to give or withhold informed consent to ANY medical procedure – including vaccination – be protected and honored without limit.

I'll be honest, I don't know much about the politics/history of the vaccine fund. But I do understand the science. That data shows no link between thimerosal in vaccines to neurodevelopmental disorders like autism. And that is the root of the debate here. If there is no evidence to support a link, then all of the circumstantial evidence about what the gov't allows or doesn't just because window dressing on a conspiracy theory, not a scientific theory.

Yeah, well, I would guess there's not much to see when you've got your head buried in the sand...

Maybe you could provide some evidence showing that thimerosal-containing vaccines actually causes harm in kids, not rats.

I'll be happy to do that just as soon as someone decides it's okay to sequester a few hundred kids, inject them with this crap, kill them, and dissect their brains and various other organs to see what they find. But perhaps this would be an absurd thought. This is why they use rats instead of people. Have a nice day.

If thimerosal caused neurodevelopmental damage to kids, you could compare kids who have received varying levels of the mercury compound and see an increase in developmental disorders. But you don't. Also the rat studies looked at doses of thimerosal far greater than any child receives.

I realize this debate is pointless, so I'll refrain from further comments. Best.

So you believe epidemiological studies would be more reliable than controlled studies. Interesting.

But if we skip the shots who will pour billions of dollars into private drug company profit barns? How would they be able to pay out million dollar bonuses? You might cripple the yacht industry, putting all those people out of work. Think before you speak man.

We used to have flu epidemics before the flu shot was invented. The Spanish flu epidemic took out half a continent. Still think we don't need flu shots?

I-MOVE Multi-Centre Case Control Study 2010-11: Overall and Stratified Estimates of Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness in Europe.

done. Im sure it won't quiet you though

More Republicans have stock in the pharmacutical industries than Democrats. FACT. Google it. I did. It's easy.

Are you even capable of logical thought?

It seems like the GOP is the anti-science party these days.

lame.

Very lame.

Oh well...let's just turn to fairy tales and shrug our shoulders and ignore science so our head does not tingle.

Your wearing a tin-foil hat right now.

I knew it. :)

no kiddin'? so that's how the US is rolling in the dough these days.

I am skeptical of the flu shot, but also not informed enough to make any definitive statements. This assertion, however, is absurd.